Red Bull RB6 Debut

[gloomyDAY]

Yes, I'm early.

Let's remind everyone why this year's cars are looking prettier.

RB5

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/04/19/86031915RedBull.jpg

http://www.vivelaf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/sebastian-vettel_redbull.jpg

http://www.carsuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/red-bull-shanghai.jpg

[CNR]

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20003&Itemid=219

Mark Webber will do the honours when Red Bull's 2010 car is given its track debut at Jerez next week

[Sonic]

Lots of hype about this car, and whilst I too can't wait to see it, my feeling is that it will be a slight anti-climax. The car is a bit late, not because Newey has moved the goalposts once more, but because the late choice on the engine (and I assume therefore the gearbox) will have held up design on the crucial diffuser area which all the teams have been banging on about and how much they have changed their gearboxes to maximise flow to the DD.

Not to say it won't be quick, I expect many victories for the RB06, but it won't be groundbreaking IMO. Only a few days to wait and see how wrong I am! :D ;)

[Saint Devote]

I think there is a great deal for teams to worry about - the RB05 has set the essential design pace, the RB06 is the NEXT generation - maybe Newey has gained pace for RBR, Sebastian Vettel learnt a lot in 2009, the Renault engine is around 10 to 15kgs lighter than the heaviest engine - Ferrari's and weight is everything because of distribution. Without refueling it will for the first time be a significant factor in grands prix.

Oh yes, Jerez may well spring a surprise.

Sure the launch was delayed but this is F1 and people also play mind games - Newey has won 105 grands prix and is the Michael Schumacher of design.

[52Paddy]

When is their launch date?

[Viridian Black]

10th Feb. This coming Wednesday

[Hawkmoon]

I think there is a great deal for teams to worry about - the RB05 has set the essential design pace, the RB06 is the NEXT generation - maybe Newey has gained pace for RBR, Sebastian Vettel learnt a lot in 2009, the Renault engine is around 10 to 15kgs lighter than the heaviest engine - Ferrari's and weight is everything because of distribution. Without refueling it will for the first time be a significant factor in grands prix.

Oh yes, Jerez may well spring a surprise.

Sure the launch was delayed but this is F1 and people also play mind games - Newey has won 105 grands prix and is the Michael Schumacher of design.

I think you overstate Newey's abilities. Let's not forget that his cars haven't won a world title since '99. The man is a very good designer but he's not a design god. He get's it wrong just as much as he gets it right, like all designers. The RB6 has as much chance of being rubbish as it does of being the F2004 re-born.

[Sonic]

I think you overstate Newey's abilities. Let's not forget that his cars haven't won a world title since '99. The man is a very good designer but he's not a design god. He get's it wrong just as much as he gets it right, like all designers. The RB6 has as much chance of being rubbish as it does of being the F2004 re-born.

Indeed. The first 3 red bull cars were average and only in the last two seasons have Newey cars won GP's.

Don't get me wrong St.D, I think Newey is a wonderful designer but he's not the second coming, and as such although everyone followed the lead of the 5 there is no proof the 6 will be radical or fast - although my gut tells me it will be one of those things.

[Saint Devote]

I think you overstate Newey's abilities. Let's not forget that his cars haven't won a world title since '99. The man is a very good designer but he's not a design god. He get's it wrong just as much as he gets it right, like all designers. The RB6 has as much chance of being rubbish as it does of being the F2004 re-born.

The advantage with Newy that RBR has as I see it is that the regs are still pretty new and have once again been tweaked. So he will probably be able to continue that advantage.

Also I would never class him like all designers. No other designer around has had his success.

It is Newey's influence that we see in all the cars these days and while yes, he could get it wrong, I do not think he will. Instead I think he can leverage 2009 and with a more experienced Vettel, who made critical mistakes in 2009, providing he contains errors, will be a strong championship contender.

Therefore the RBR is the most important launch of the season.

Imagine if the design is as different this year as it was last, compared to everyone else :D

[Saint Devote]

Indeed. The first 3 red bull cars were average and only in the last two seasons have Newey cars won GP's.

Don't get me wrong St.D, I think Newey is a wonderful designer but he's not the second coming, and as such although everyone followed the lead of the 5 there is no proof the 6 will be radical or fast - although my gut tells me it will be one of those things.

I think it will be quick. The Renault is not the most powerful engine and the team did want a Mercedes, but it is the lightest [Ferrari around 12kgs heavier].

[Hawkmoon]

Also I would never class him like all designers. No other designer around has had his success.

I don't agree here. Rory Byrne has won more championships than Newey. Newey gets all the credit where Byrne seems to get none as Ross Brawn gets it all.

Newey was an aerodynamicist at Williams, not the lead designer and I think Patrick Head deserves as much credit for the Williams cars of the '90s. Newey's cars won 3 titles over two years at McLaren and then were put in the shade by Byrne's Ferraris who took 11 of 12 titles over 6 years.

Newey was great in the 90's but his cars weren't title winners during the '00s. The 2009 car was good but it remains to be seen whether it was the start of a new era for him or a continuation of the last decade.

[Saint Devote]

I don't agree here. Rory Byrne has won more championships than Newey. Newey gets all the credit where Byrne seems to get none as Ross Brawn gets it all.

Newey was an aerodynamicist at Williams, not the lead designer and I think Patrick Head deserves as much credit for the Williams cars of the '90s. Newey's cars won 3 titles over two years at McLaren and then were put in the shade by Byrne's Ferraris who took 11 of 12 titles over 6 years.

Newey was great in the 90's but his cars weren't title winners during the '00s. The 2009 car was good but it remains to be seen whether it was the start of a new era for him or a continuation of the last decade.

Newey's cars have won 105 grands prix to date - thats more important than titles, as far as I am concerned. No other designer around TODAY [is the emphasis] equals that. Unless I am mistaken Byrne is no longer with Ferrari and was not there in 2009 either.

Now whether you recognize him as this or that, it was on his watch that these were won.

All the cars so far launched in 2010 have copied the Newey aerodynamics. In 2009 new regulations began a new era. I'd say that Newey is indeed the design Schumacher - as the benchmark to beat [the Red Bulls in the last part of 2009 were the quickest and had no KERS or double diffuser]

I expect the Newey RB06 to contnue where they left off and maybe when they get to Albert Park, a fully fit Mark Webber will win at home.

[ShiftingGears]

I expect the Newey RB06 to contnue where they left off and maybe when they get to Albert Park, a fully fit Mark Webber will win at home.

I hope so!

[RJL25]

it would be Webbers best, possibly last, and probably first realistic chance to win his home GP

[F1boat]

Also I would never class him like all designers. No other designer around has had his success.


IMO Rory Burne of Ferrari was better. He utterly clowned Newey between 2000 and 2004 and it is not a coincidence that when he left Ferrari lost their enormous advantage. I also think that Rory made the old Benetton cars and if you see a 1992 Benetton car it looks vastly different from other cars - a car from the future.
Newey, however, is indeed a great designer and now that Rory is gone he is the best in the field. However, his advantage comes when the rule changes are radical - like in 1998 or last year. When the changes are not that big, the bigger teams with their army of very good managers can overcome him. Gone are the times when a single designer builds the car - now there are huge teams who are doing this. And I am not sure that Newey can match the team in Paragon. You think that the progress of RBR last year were impressive? Then what about McLaren?

[Civic]

I might've missed it but last year's RB and STR are the same cars with different engines? This year's STR looks the same but the RB may look different because no customer cars are allowed anymore, right?

[Saint Devote]

IMO Rory Burne of Ferrari was better. He utterly clowned Newey between 2000 and 2004 and it is not a coincidence that when he left Ferrari lost their enormous advantage. I also think that Rory made the old Benetton cars and if you see a 1992 Benetton car it looks vastly different from other cars - a car from the future.
Newey, however, is indeed a great designer and now that Rory is gone he is the best in the field. However, his advantage comes when the rule changes are radical - like in 1998 or last year. When the changes are not that big, the bigger teams with their army of very good managers can overcome him. Gone are the times when a single designer builds the car - now there are huge teams who are doing this. And I am not sure that Newey can match the team in Paragon. You think that the progress of RBR last year were impressive? Then what about McLaren?

You have missed the point of my post. I refer to the present only. Byrne has not been in F1 for a while and Newey is the designer that has set the trend under the rules since 2009.

He has won 105 grands prix with cars under his command and the RBR was the most impressive in 2009 because they did it without the diffuser or KERS.

They won the last three grands prix and I think it likely thats how 2010 will begin - with a Vettel victory.

[Saint Devote]

I hope so!

It would make the season for Webber and I am sure there "would not be a dry eye in the house"!

I am certainly for that result.

[F1boat]

You have missed the point of my post. I refer to the present only. Byrne has not been in F1 for a while and Newey is the designer that has set the trend under the rules since 2009.

He has won 105 grands prix with cars under his command and the RBR was the most impressive in 2009 because they did it without the diffuser or KERS.

They won the last three grands prix and I think it likely thats how 2010 will begin - with a Vettel victory.

To me the Red Bull last year was equal to the 2005 McLaren. In the early rounds of the year, the car lost a lot to a dominant rival (Alonso with Renault in 2005 and Jenson with BrawnMerc in 2009), then the team pushed really hard to catch the rival, scored some dominant victories, but also some embarassing failures.
So I won't be surprised if the Red Bull fails like the 2006 McLaren. So for me it is more likely that we will see a win of Michael, Ferrari or McLaren.
But of course you might be right! As Kimi often says, we have to wait and see what happens!

[jens]

Red Bull together with Lotus is probably among my most-cheered teams this year, so I am eagerly waiting for the launch. :) It will be very interesting to see, how can they match against other top teams, who have already been testing.

Yes, it has taken Red Bull several years to reach the top, but as we know, everything takes time in F1 and it's been quite a long team building period for RBR. In the first few years Red Bull's management was making mistakes here and there IMO, but by now I think the whole organization has become quite strong and doesn't entirely rely on Newey.

The 2005-2006 McLaren comparison isn't really fair. I think the main stumbling block for McLaren-Mercedes were the new V8 engines. Mercedes' weakness especially in adapting to new engine rules (also the one-weekend engine rule in '04) was well-known in an era, when there were no rev-limits.

P.S. One recommendation - can you folks please post pictures, which don't make the site too wide for the screen? :D I have seen this problem in various threads.

[turismo6]

To me the Red Bull last year was equal to the 2005 McLaren. In the early rounds of the year, the car lost a lot to a dominant rival (Alonso with Renault in 2005 and Jenson with BrawnMerc in 2009), then the team pushed really hard to catch the rival, scored some dominant victories, but also some embarassing failures.
So I won't be surprised if the Red Bull fails like the 2006 McLaren. So for me it is more likely that we will see a win of Michael, Ferrari or McLaren.
But of course you might be right! As Kimi often says, we have to wait and see what happens!

The problem with the RB5 was the pull rod rear suspension didn't allow much scope in terms of retrofitting a double diffuser. So it wasn't till late in session that they got around this.

[turismo6]

First Pics

[ozrevhead]

Can we follow it anywhere online?

[turismo6]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk has some news on it

[ozrevhead]

Thanks

also found stuff on James Allens twitter page http://twitter.jamesallenonf1.com/

[Sonic]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/red_bull_rb6-6.jpg

Spot the difference!? ;)

[Sonic]

No word on the rear suspension. Anyone got a pic?

[turismo6]

Looks like pull rod...

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/photolarge.php?photoID=145177&catID=4742

How do you upload a photo into the window?

[F1boat]

Evolution, then. This might be a very good choice as the last year's car was very fast.

[Giuseppe F1]

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1265790628.jpg

http://joesaward.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/30779_1_thumbnail_750x550_page1_107856.jpg

http://joesaward.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/picture-11.png

Phwoar!!

[Sonic]

Looks like pull rod...

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/photolarge.php?photoID=145177&catID=4742

How do you upload a photo into the window?

Insert the url between these

[ShiftingGears]

Hope Webber can win more than a few in it.

[f1indiablog]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_okcyx1ajmR4/S3JnwToB6CI/AAAAAAAABgQ/zaSwrh4ZcQ8/s1600-h/rb-3.jpg

[turismo6]

Insert the url between these


Thank you

[RJL25]

Obviously an evolution, very interesting that Newey has stuck with the pull-rod setup!

Not surprising, RBR put so much work into the RB5 right up untill the last race last season, the car was a jet by the end of the season, seems completely logical for them to continue to develop the best car in F1 rather then throw the best car in the bin and start again.

[RJL25]

the fact the car is such an obvious evolution of last years car means that the car won't have any surprises to them and the team will get ontop of it very quickly, so it'll be fast, isn't alot of doubt about that, it's just a matter of if anyone else is faster or not... it'll definetly be somewhere towards the front though.

[I am evil Homer]

No word on the rear suspension. Anyone got a pic?


Looks like pull rod...

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/photolarge.php?photoID=145177&catID=4742

How do you upload a photo into the window?


Obviously an evolution, very interesting that Newey has stuck with the pull-rod setup!

Not surprising, RBR put so much work into the RB5 right up untill the last race last season, the car was a jet by the end of the season, seems completely logical for them to continue to develop the best car in F1 rather then throw the best car in the bin and start again.

Nope they've gone push-rod according to the BBC launch article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8504426.stm

[CNR]

i do not want to be a party popper but i need to remind you that hotlinking not allowed if you save the image to hard drive you can add it as an attachment or you can use a site that host images to up load to
like http://tinypic.com/

[CNR]

Q: is redbull that much different Toro Rosso
http://i48.tinypic.com/zt66xk.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/t4ydkz.jpg

[RJL25]

well, the Torro Rosso looks EXACTLY the same as the 2009 car, the RBR looks like the 2009 car with slightly higher side pods and a slightly taller nose

[RJL25]

and got it wrong, sorry, push rod rear suspension, as per expectations

[AndyL]

It's broken down already!

[ArrowsFA1]

I see Christian Horner has raised (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81370) the issue of the engine freeze, and Renault perhaps taking it too literally and suffering as a result, again.


"The problem with the engine freeze is that you freeze in an advantage"

No **** Sherlock :p : Wasn't that the drawback highlighted at the time of the freeze?

[jens]

Well, it certainly makes sense that the car is an evolution and I personally expected it to be one anyway. Considering that many teams have copied RBR's ideas, it means RBR itself has an excellent basis for a new car and doesn't need to mess around again. Red Bull acted quite similarly in 07-08 - in '07 had a completely new design concept and approach, for '08 added just minor tweaks. I wonder, how reliable the car is going to be though - after all, Willis is gone by now.

[RJL25]

You would expect an evolution to be reliable, modern F1 cars are usually exceptionally reliable, particularly since the engine freeze was introduced.

I don't expect their to be a problem their other then a few teething problems during testing which ALL teams have

[Giuseppe F1]

http://www.pitpass.com/images/galleries/2010launchredbull/2010launchredbull_s014.jpg

Its seems from the pic below that Red Bull has 'stolen' PepeJeansLondon as a sponsor from their engine supplier Renault - visible on the tops of the sidepod air intakes.

Remeber Pepe Jeans putting out a press release last year saying that would be standing by Renault and renewing their sponsorship after the 'CashGate' saga......Red Bull's marketing department must have swooped in and done a late deal! :)

[AndyL]

I don't expect their to be a problem their other then a few teething problems during testing which ALL teams have

The breakdown this morning was a simple oil leak apparently.

[truefan72]

Well, it certainly makes sense that the car is an evolution and I personally expected it to be one anyway. Considering that many teams have copied RBR's ideas, it means RBR itself has an excellent basis for a new car and doesn't need to mess around again. Red Bull acted quite similarly in 07-08 - in '07 had a completely new design concept and approach, for '08 added just minor tweaks.

agreed


wonder, how reliable the car is going to be though - after all, Willis is gone by now.

thats the million dollar question.


on a side note
I just wish STR or RBR went with very different color schemes. I know red bull sponsors both, but one of them could have changed up with some nice new livery.

[woody2goody]

I like the car, it looks like a cross between their thin and fat nosed packages last year.

I don't think there'll be much of a problem distinguishing it from STR this year, as STR has a decent amount of red on the front, but we will have to see.

I know we're talking about the car, but what about the driver battle? I'm actually going for Webber this year over Vettel.

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.redbullracing.com/PageFiles/31304/Shot_1_HR_V1_FLAT_SHAD_960.jpg







It's broken down already!Oh no! What happened?

[Dave B]

Oil leak, according to Autosport. Nothing major.

[truefan72]

I know we're talking about the car, but what about the driver battle? I'm actually going for Webber this year over Vettel.

me too. I think he will do well this year.

[RJL25]

it's interesting... at the start of last season Vettel was clearly the better driver over Webber who was still obviously suffering a lot more then he was letting on with his injuries.

While the gap closed a lot by the end of the season, Webber never REALLY recovered from these throughout the entire season as he required additional surgery to correct his injuries but couldn't have them till the end of the season.

With a fully fit Webber at the start of this season, will he go back to his days of dominating his team mates? Doubt it, Vettel is too good for that, but could he beat Vettel consistantly? Well, I think Webber is the better RACE driver, but it will all come down to quali where Vettel spanked Webber last season, Webber is usually an epic qualifier but was no where near that last season... can he get back their?

If he can, then Webber will beat Seb in the WDC

[Saint Devote]

Qualification is always significant but this season there is no refuelling - it will favor the driver in the race who can look after his tyres.

This last factor can be a huge advantage over their teammates for those like Button who is both easy on his tyres and able to be quickest through the slow corners - Alain Prost was the master at this.

That will be the race battle between teammates - qualifying may be an decreasing advantage as the race goes on.

[DazzlaF1]

Well it doesn't look as "revolutionary" as said by a few people but still interesting to see they've decided to keep the "old skool" pull -rod rear suspension.

That just leaves Lotus as the only ones left to launch (well of those that actually have a launch date)

[wedge]

More pronounced scallops.

In coming years wer're going to get funny noses.

[52Paddy]

Not a bad looking motor but far from the nicest I've seen so far this year. I really don't like the bulge on the nose.

[Saint Devote]

Of the "big four" - Mclaren, Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull - from what I have read, I'd say Mclaren is the most radical.

The most unusul points are Mclaren's stepped front wishbone and Ferrari's inclined engine position.

And now with all the cars launched I still think that the MP4-25 is the best looking. Just take a look at that car - its beautiful!

I also reckon that the cars with the fin are going to best those without. Through corners, especially slow ones which are many, and at which Jenson excells, the fin is going to be a real gem.

[nigelred5]

The fins are far from new, just much more dramatic this year it seems. I've read other aerodynamicists say they found absolutely no aerodynamic benefit to the fin, so I suppse we'll have to wait and see. i would think if it was as clear cut as that, all would have them by now. It's not as if it 's a very complex addition.

[TMorel]

Didn't Kimi struggle when Ferrari played with the sharks-fin? It may not have an aerodynamic benefit, but maybe it affects a drivers feeling?

[Sonic]

Didn't Kimi struggle when Ferrari played with the sharks-fin? It may not have an aerodynamic benefit, but maybe it affects a drivers feeling?

I don't recall that, however you're probably right. I've always thought the fins, though a possible slight advantage in controling air flow, would be a disaster in a crosswind - Silverstone?

Anyway, these guys are smarter than us, so I don't doubt there is a benefit in there somewhere.

[Saint Devote]

Mclaren, after last year have concentrated heavily on their aero.

They have also stepped their lower front suspension normally in an A frame - apparently this helps through corners by keeping more tyre area on the track.

I am no aerodynamicist, but I am sure Woking has produced a very effective car this year.

There will be some inkling by the time of the Catalunya test because the MP4-25 is scheduled to be in close to race set-up.

[Saint Devote]

The fins are far from new, just much more dramatic this year it seems. I've read other aerodynamicists say they found absolutely no aerodynamic benefit to the fin, so I suppse we'll have to wait and see. i would think if it was as clear cut as that, all would have them by now. It's not as if it 's a very complex addition.

The Mclaren again - reading the analysis in Auosport, is one of the most radical cars aerodynamically.

The integration of the nose wing through to the diffuser is remarkable - and the car is really beautiful.

[F1boat]

Mclaren, after last year have concentrated heavily on their aero.

They have also stepped their lower front suspension normally in an A frame - apparently this helps through corners by keeping more tyre area on the track.

I am no aerodynamicist, but I am sure Woking has produced a very effective car this year.

There will be some inkling by the time of the Catalunya test because the MP4-25 is scheduled to be in close to race set-up.

I too can not wait for the Barcelona test!

[Saint Devote]

I too can not wait for the Barcelona test!

:D
And just THINKING about Sakhir gives goose bumps!!!

I cannot remember when last a season was awaited by F1 participants and fans with such excitement.

[F1boat]

Well, if I'm honest I was pretty anxious for 2009 as well - but after the testing revealed a new force.

[gloomyDAY]

Testing times: :D

[F1boat]

Yes, RBR were very ominous today.

[RJL25]

Gotta say, as a Webbo fan I was a bit nervous after the last test, but it seems RBR where just piss farting around doing system checks and the like, today they've turned up with some SPEED! Thank god..

[Ari]

it's interesting... at the start of last season Vettel was clearly the better driver over Webber who was still obviously suffering a lot more then he was letting on with his injuries.

While the gap closed a lot by the end of the season, Webber never REALLY recovered from these throughout the entire season as he required additional surgery to correct his injuries but couldn't have them till the end of the season.

With a fully fit Webber at the start of this season, will he go back to his days of dominating his team mates? Doubt it, Vettel is too good for that, but could he beat Vettel consistantly? Well, I think Webber is the better RACE driver, but it will all come down to quali where Vettel spanked Webber last season, Webber is usually an epic qualifier but was no where near that last season... can he get back their?

If he can, then Webber will beat Seb in the WDC

Top post.

I think with all of the driver changes happening in F1 the Vettel and Webber duel will still be one of the most interesting this year.

Last year this was clearly the best duel and I don't see it being much different this year.

Fantastic that Webber has finally found a team-mate who can, on a good day, school him. Builds a better driver and some angry which is a needed component of any elite sportsperson.

Last year Vettel cleared Webber in Quali. In races Vettel probably beat Webber marginally but it was close.

Can't wait!! :D

[Ari]

it would be Webbers best, possibly last, and probably first realistic chance to win his home GP

...well, if you want to put it like that.

I will be on the first corner again this year, Jones stand, so am hoping I don't get to see my boy punted out again on the first corner.

[RJL25]

...well, if you want to put it like that.


Well I don't know how else you could put it, the RB5 was the first car Webber has ever driven that was capable of winning a race however it didn't hit it's stride straight away, in the first GP it wasn't the best car yet, that didn't happen to later that year once they got their double diffuser sorted.

Also at the start of last year Webber was still quite injured and not really physically up to it

so therefore this year is the first year he has a realistic chance, and I say last chance because he really is in the twilight of his career now, he himself admits that