usa following f1.. LOL

[4mula1]

of course we can all agree that what brawn did last year will NOT happen (again) with the new us f1 team, but sadily if it did. i would be supprised if it was even talked about on radio or the papers. W H Y! .. is (usa?) detroit so mentally challenged when showing an interest in autoracing?... if it isnt stick n ball sports. they dont care. WHY?.. when lewis hamilton became the 1st black driver to win the f1 championship the sports people in michigan NEVER!.. said anything. N O T H I N G!.. :confused:

[UltimateDanGTR]

thank you for that random rant.

it is appreciated.

[52Paddy]

of course we can all agree that what brawn did last year will NOT happen (again) with the new us f1 team, but sadily if it did. i would be supprised if it was even talked about on radio or the papers. W H Y! .. is (usa?) detroit so mentally challenged when showing an interest in autoracing?... if it isnt stick n ball sports. they dont care. WHY?.. when lewis hamilton became the 1st black driver to win the f1 championship the sports people in michigan NEVER!.. said anything. N O T H I N G!.. :confused:

The heart of F1 is in Europe buddy. Just by historical consequences. It doesn't seem to gel well with the American mentality. I ain't saying Americans are stupid or anything, but they think contrastingly to Europeans and are different, categorically speaking. You have your NASCAR and Superbowl and relate to sport on a different wavelength than the Europeans.

Now, that's my perception of it. And it's a smacking generalisation, but that's all I can give. I'm not American after all. ;)

[stephenw_us]

There is a small but strong core of Formula One fans in the states, with plenty of coverage if you look for it.

No it is not always in same place as stick and ball sports but I for one don't appreciate being painted with such a broad brush - for example here in the Seattle area F1 and the Premier League are followed closely by most of my circle of facebook friends so :p :

The Boston Globe does stunning photo essays of F1 so :p :

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/05/2009_formula_one_season_wet_dr.html

[NCF1Fan]

Sadly, much of what the OP said is true regarding press coverage and the interest (or lack therof) in the US of F1 and other forms of motorsport that is of interest in Europe. I'm sure there have been massive studies done on the subject, most likely by corporations and broadcasters; not for the interest aspect, but to see if there is a dollar to be made in the US market. You can bet that if that were the case, then it would be all over the press.

I happen to be a motorsports fan and try to follow as many series and forms as possible. It is difficult at best, or it was until the Internet made world news and sports pervasive. WRC is not broadcast or even covered in summary on any TV network. F1 is only covered on Speed TV with a few races televised on FOX, mainly in mid summer.

I happen to live in Charlotte NC, home of USF1. I have driven by their factory to see that it is actually there. However there has been NO, and I mean NO coverage of the team in the local press. Even when PW posed with Pechito and the President of Argentina, there was absolutely nothing in the local press about it.

Again, I don't know why F1 is just not gererally followed in the US. Like StephenW said, there are pockets of fans, and a few people I know do keep up with it, but for the most part, I am on my own.

[DazzlaF1]

Sadly, much of what the OP said is true regarding press coverage and the interest (or lack therof) in the US of F1 and other forms of motorsport that is of interest in Europe. I'm sure there have been massive studies done on the subject, most likely by corporations and broadcasters; not for the interest aspect, but to see if there is a dollar to be made in the US market. You can bet that if that were the case, then it would be all over the press.

I happen to be a motorsports fan and try to follow as many series and forms as possible. It is difficult at best, or it was until the Internet made world news and sports pervasive. WRC is not broadcast or even covered in summary on any TV network. F1 is only covered on Speed TV with a few races televised on FOX, mainly in mid summer.

I happen to live in Charlotte NC, home of USF1. I have driven by their factory to see that it is actually there. However there has been NO, and I mean NO coverage of the team in the local press. Even when PW posed with Pechito and the President of Argentina, there was absolutely nothing in the local press about it.

Again, I don't know why F1 is just not gererally followed in the US. Like StephenW said, there are pockets of fans, and a few people I know do keep up with it, but for the most part, I am on my own.

You pretty much summed it up in that 2nd paragraph, if all the races were shown on network tv on CBS, NBC, ABC or FOX, then it would give the exposure in the US that it needs, instead like you say most of the races are on a satellite/cable network which wont get as many viewers (apart from avid motorsport fans) unless you were with ESPN of course. For example over here in Britain, all the Grands Prix are shown on BBC 1, one of the 2 major network channels over here, which is a huge advantage for the F1 fanbase here

But thats what the US media is doing, they are catering for the majority (and you cant blame them for doing that) which is why NASCAR and the indy 500 gets top billing. F1 fans over in the states (of which there are plenty) really do get a bum deal in tersm of coverage unless you've got cable.

What i cant understand though is what you say about USF1, surely a project like that based in America (i think the first American F1 team in over 30 years) which is investing tens of millions of dollars into their operations and employing from around the Charlotte area and beyond would at least get a decent amount of coverage from its own national local press. But the fact that the team is based in the city where NASCAR'S headquarters are doesnt help.

[maximilian]

I believe it boils down to that Americans get interested when Americans are successful. They couldn't care less about a bunch of Euros racing around, there is no way to really associate with that. Supposedly the lack of good American drivers in CART kicked off all the problems in that series, as it was becoming more popular in places like Japan, Brazil and Canada, but supposedly lost market interest in the US. If there was a young American phenom tearing up the ranks, it would quickly catch on in the news, and the fans will come knocking. Everybody loves a winner.

[stephenw_us]

I believe it boils down to that Americans get interested when Americans are successful. They couldn't care less about a bunch of Euros racing around, there is no way to really associate with that. Supposedly the lack of good American drivers in CART kicked off all the problems in that series, as it was becoming more popular in places like Japan, Brazil and Canada, but supposedly lost market interest in the US. If there was a young American phenom tearing up the ranks, it would quickly catch on in the news, and the fans will come knocking. Everybody loves a winner.

I am embarrassed by that, for some reason American motorsports fans seem to be the worst when it comes to provincial attitudes...what embarrasses me the most is the general denial here in terms of what F1 represents...

It gets particularity bad when NASCAR writers start writing about F1, already this season on SpeedTV there have been more than a few opinion pieces from NASCAR writers on USF1 that have gotten their F1 facts completely wrong, one guy still thinks F1 was budget capped...

:rolleyes:

[gloomyDAY]

My head almost exploded trying to read the thread starter's post.

If you're a F1 and/or WRC in America, well, you're screwed! Not until just recently has there been an abundance of video torrents online that allows me to download all of the races.

SpeedTV is a joke, a complete joke. Sadly, that's all you can get around here.

[Saint Devote]

I don't think one ought to be overly critical of F1 popularity in the US.
Its a niche sport. Always has been.

Yet - just look how popular the grand prix at Watkins Glen was. Then came Long Beach - another great event and even Detroit.

Sure there were the real lemons such as Dallas, Las Vegas and Phoenix.

Indianapolis was always a questionable idea. It confused American audiences and annoyed purists like myself because F1 requires its own identity.

The American audience is actually a very sophisticated one in terms of "entertainment dollars".

So how to begin? Develop a track in significant metro area - its required these days. Places like Watkins Glen were okay for the "petrolheads" like me - we LOVE race tracks to be out of the way and rustic which is why we love Interlagos and Silverstone so much - and naturally my favorite love: Monte Carlo.

Build it and they will come - there are enough Americans that love f1 AND understand it - to fill a track.

Besides the fact that not being in the US but going to race in Korea or some other "exotic" place is just plain ridiculous and to folks like myself, offensive.

I love the United States. It is a wonderful country with great people and INNOVATIVE RACING people and superb race tracks such as Road America.

A great history of racing. A world championship without a US GP is in my view, tainted. American DESERVES a grand prix.

Are you listening Bernie?

[ZequeArgentina]

I would love to see F1 run in Laguna Seca, even with the dust right there at the limit of the track!!

[edv]

Maximillian got it right.
Almost all big-time racing in the N America revolves around personalities and soap-opera drama. To have a chance at popularity, F1 would need to feature an established American driver in the mix, like Johnson, Busch, Patrick, etc. Not an unknown like S Speed.
F1 was really popular back when the likes of Mario Andretti were on the grid.
Same in Canada, F1 became really popular when both Villeneuves were drivers.
Unfortunately, the development of drivers here concentrates on stuff like track-bars and spring rubbers. LOL

[garyshell]

I believe it boils down to that Americans get interested when Americans are successful. They couldn't care less about a bunch of Euros racing around, there is no way to really associate with that. Supposedly the lack of good American drivers in CART kicked off all the problems in that series, as it was becoming more popular in places like Japan, Brazil and Canada, but supposedly lost market interest in the US. If there was a young American phenom tearing up the ranks, it would quickly catch on in the news, and the fans will come knocking. Everybody loves a winner.


"Supposedly" is the operative word there. Witness the popularity of Alex Zanardi and Juan Pablo Montoya when they ran in the CART series. I don't believe the public here is anywhere as parochial as has been suggested, and not just by you. The problems CART had were much more political in nature and I don't want to get into that here, it's not the proper forum. But I truly don't believe Americans have any problem embracing foreign drivers. Look how well Juan has done building a fan base in NASCAR. If ANY American series is going to exhibit that sort of thinking it would be NASCAR. But fans love him, and they have embraced Marcus Ambrose and "Mad" Max Papis as well.

Gary

[maximilian]

"Supposedly" is the operative word there. Witness the popularity of Alex Zanardi and Juan Pablo Montoya when they ran in the CART series. I don't believe the public here is anywhere as parochial as has been suggested, and not just by you. The problems CART had were much more political in nature and I don't want to get into that here, it's not the proper forum. But I truly don't believe Americans have any problem embracing foreign drivers. Look how well Juan has done building a fan base in NASCAR. If ANY American series is going to exhibit that sort of thinking it would be NASCAR. But fans love him, and they have embraced Marcus Ambrose and "Mad" Max Papis as well.

Gary
That's true, Gary... some of the foreigners were definitely popular, at least with the core CART fans. I still think that Americans need American stars to associate with and to really follow a series (a la NASCAR, which has mostly American drivers) - you see it every time the Olympics comes around, sports no one gives a crap about for 4 years suddenly become interesting, because some American athletes excel for the GOLD. Even an exotic sport like Sumo gained popularity in the US in the 90's when the 3 big Hawaiians became huge stars in Japan, and 2 of them became Grand Champions.

In a way the success-popularity-ripple effect is true for all other countries, too. For so many years, Germany struggled to finally have a good driver in F1, and look at it now, after MSchumacher. The same is happening with Spain... we may have as many as 4 Spaniards on the grid in 2010... and 51,000 spectators showed up just to see a testing session! :)

[garyshell]

That's true, Gary... some of the foreigners were definitely popular, at least with the core CART fans. I still think that Americans need American stars to associate with and to really follow a series (a la NASCAR, which has mostly American drivers) - you see it every time the Olympics comes around, sports no one gives a crap about for 4 years suddenly become interesting, because some American athletes excel for the GOLD. Even an exotic sport like Sumo gained popularity in the US in the 90's when the 3 big Hawaiians became huge stars in Japan, and 2 of them became Grand Champions.

In a way the success-popularity-ripple effect is true for all other countries, too. For so many years, Germany struggled to finally have a good driver in F1, and look at it now, after MSchumacher. The same is happening with Spain... we may have as many as 4 Spaniards on the grid in 2010... and 51,000 spectators showed up just to see a testing session! :)


Are the Olympic sports suddenly popular because an American is participating or because the sport is available to be seen on TV? Was sumo wrestling suddenly popular because of the American being there, or because we suddenly had coverage of the sport? My point is the COVERAGE of the sports is very parochial, but the Americans taste isn't quite so. We get painted with this broad brush, not because we feel this way but because our news and entertainment PROVIDERS are so narrow minded.

Gary

[maximilian]

Are the Olympic sports suddenly popular because an American is participating or because the sport is available to be seen on TV? Was sumo wrestling suddenly popular because of the American being there, or because we suddenly had coverage of the sport? My point is the COVERAGE of the sports is very parochial, but the Americans taste isn't quite so. We get painted with this broad brush, not because we feel this way but because our news and entertainment PROVIDERS are so narrow minded.

Gary
Coverage comes when there is success, or at least a chance of success. You won't see more obscure (Olympic or not) sports on US TV when there is no American medal/win hope, but LOTS of it if there IS!

And yes, the providers are partially to blame for this. Definitely guilty of spotlight syndrome.

[jens]

But then again coverage providers offer more coverage of a certain sport event, because they know that more people would watch the sport if a local hero was successful. So it works both ways. ;) People wouldn't care if there was no local hero to follow and TV stations should know it better than anyone else.

[ykiki]

Thought I'd weigh in on this one as well. Everyone I know is familiar (on some basice level) with NASCAR. If they see a car, they know what it is. Some of them are even fans, and know names like Gordon or Earnhardt. Most have heard of, or are familiar with, the name "Formula 1". They'll tell you that it's those cool looking, rocket-nosed cars that race in exotic/foreign places. Only a few are fans that have heard of anyone besides Schumacher. Ask them about "IndyCars" and they'll more often than not get that confused with F1 - but more American (by sight, open wheel is open wheel to them). They may watch the Indy 500 simply because it's the Indy 500. Thanks to her ads, they know of Danica Patrick. Aside from that, they don't really watch.

Then there's the Olympics. People tend to watch for the spectacle of the whole thing. Americans cheering on other American who are trying to kick butt on a world stage. Americans are intrigued by that - plus the Olympics only take place every 4 years (well, 2 years if you take into account the staggered Summer/Winter thing), which makes it even more special. The average American can't tell you who's the best American athlete in track & field or figure skating is in a non-Olympic year.

All of this leads me back to USF1. No main-stream media coverage because, well, there's nothing to really cover yet. A driver no one has heard of and a car no one has seen will not make them media darlings. When there's a car, you'll see that covered in the motorsports press (in this country = SPEED). If by some MIRACLE they achieve Brawn-type results, then yes, I would expect a whole lot of coverage. Americans love underdogs, and nothing makes a better story than an American underdog team winning on a world stage.

Are the Olympic sports suddenly popular because an American is participating or because the sport is available to be seen on TV? Was sumo wrestling suddenly popular because of the American being there, or because we suddenly had coverage of the sport? My point is the COVERAGE of the sports is very parochial, but the Americans taste isn't quite so. We get painted with this broad brush, not because we feel this way but because our news and entertainment PROVIDERS are so narrow minded.

Gary

Tis the same everywhere, my cross-atlantic brethren!

We had to endure hours of Curling because some Scottish bint who looked like Colin Hendry with breasts (trust me, not an attractive thought) was good at it a few years back.

For those of you not au fait with this thrilling, death-defying and athletically astounding sport, it is basically Crown Bowls on ice. Yet even more dull.

And played by pretty much nobody.

Yet you would think, from the BBC coverage, it was our equivalent of the Superbowl.

[stephenw_us]

Thought I'd weigh in on this one as well. Everyone I know is familiar (on some basice level) with NASCAR. If they see a car, they know what it is. Some of them are even fans, and know names like Gordon or Earnhardt. Most have heard of, or are familiar with, the name "Formula 1". They'll tell you that it's those cool looking, rocket-nosed cars that race in exotic/foreign places. Only a few are fans that have heard of anyone besides Schumacher. Ask them about "IndyCars" and they'll more often than not get that confused with F1 - but more American (by sight, open wheel is open wheel to them). They may watch the Indy 500 simply because it's the Indy 500. Thanks to her ads, they know of Danica Patrick. Aside from that, they don't really watch.

Then there's the Olympics. People tend to watch for the spectacle of the whole thing. Americans cheering on other American who are trying to kick butt on a world stage. Americans are intrigued by that - plus the Olympics only take place every 4 years (well, 2 years if you take into account the staggered Summer/Winter thing), which makes it even more special. The average American can't tell you who's the best American athlete in track & field or figure skating is in a non-Olympic year.

All of this leads me back to USF1. No main-stream media coverage because, well, there's nothing to really cover yet. A driver no one has heard of and a car no one has seen will not make them media darlings. When there's a car, you'll see that covered in the motorsports press (in this country = SPEED). If by some MIRACLE they achieve Brawn-type results, then yes, I would expect a whole lot of coverage. Americans love underdogs, and nothing makes a better story than an American underdog team winning on a world stage.

USF1 right now is actually harming the F1 story in America...I'm pretty upset about it.

It's really disturbing to me that everything Peter said was going to happen, is actually being pulled off by Virgin Racing, including the idea of embracing new media.

I can't believe that in all that funding for USF1 there isn't 20k or so for a real design firm to executive both the logo and website in a halfway competitive way...

USF1 to me is a bad joke....so so so so embarrassing...

[Shifter]

What I can never quite understand is how all the popular U.S. sports involve only two teams competing at any given time, which more often then not fails to be competitive. Also every arena is essentially the same. With a motorsports event, everyone competes at the same time on a unique 'field'. Only golfing can match that, and though I don't watch because I'm so interested in racing, I can sort of respect it more.

My real fear, however, is that we have failed to provide proper education. I believe that a large majority of Americans lack an understanding of physics, and therefore completely miss what is so interesting about the sport. Nascar, its only big because of its roots. The huge irony is that the southerners, who are a culturally a bit predisposed to not support anything outside of America, are the ones who pioneered stock car racing, and many of them actually understand physics because they grew up around machines. I'm not usually a fan of sweeping generalisations, but I think there is enough truth in my statement to be relevant. Good 'ole peer pressure and all that.

[ykiki]

USF1 right now is actually harming the F1 story in America...I'm pretty upset about it.

It's really disturbing to me that everything Peter said was going to happen, is actually being pulled off by Virgin Racing, including the idea of embracing new media.

I can't believe that in all that funding for USF1 there isn't 20k or so for a real design firm to executive both the logo and website in a halfway competitive way...

USF1 to me is a bad joke....so so so so embarrassing...

Can't disagree with you there. I suppose with die-hard fans like us, the whole "USF1" concept that Windsor laid out last year has proven to be a big disappointment.

On the positive side, the lack of mainstream coverage may be a blessing in disguise. Since the mainstream American has no idea of USF1's existance, then that's less pressure on them.

[Shifter]

On the positive side, the lack of mainstream coverage may be a blessing in disguise. Since the mainstream American has no idea of USF1's existance, then that's less pressure on them.

Yes, I've been thinking this. As a business student, I've been getting from USF1 exactly what I expected to get. I'd actually be MORE worried if they were a hype machine. For now, I can simply assume they're diligently working away, readying the car, instead of tooting their own horn.

[DexDexter]

"Supposedly" is the operative word there. Witness the popularity of Alex Zanardi and Juan Pablo Montoya when they ran in the CART series. I don't believe the public here is anywhere as parochial as has been suggested, and not just by you. The problems CART had were much more political in nature and I don't want to get into that here, it's not the proper forum. But I truly don't believe Americans have any problem embracing foreign drivers. Look how well Juan has done building a fan base in NASCAR. If ANY American series is going to exhibit that sort of thinking it would be NASCAR. But fans love him, and they have embraced Marcus Ambrose and "Mad" Max Papis as well.

Gary

That may be true but could anyone name one internationally popular sport besides Olympics which is popular/has ever been popular in the States? You guys obviously want to do your thing, have your anthems and sports catered for you. If it's different, not controlled by Americans and not catered for the American tastes, it won't be popular. It's the same in everything, television is a good example. How many people watch French movies or quality British TV-series over there? F1 will never be popular in the US unless it becomes a US series.

[ykiki]

Yes, I've been thinking this. As a business student, I've been getting from USF1 exactly what I expected to get. I'd actually be MORE worried if they were a hype machine. For now, I can simply assume they're diligently working away, readying the car, instead of tooting their own horn.

That's the hope, though it'd be nice if they had videos of actual progress they're making on the car. I work in aerospace, and nothing fascinates me more than watching a state-of-the-art project come together.

...and nothing worries me more than silence.

[ykiki]

I don't think it'll ever be on the same scale as it is in Europe and the rest of the world. The same thing happens when the Football World Cup occurs every 4 years. America have quite a respectable team, yet only around 1% of the population are aware that its going on. Is football taught in mainstream American schools? I understand its not the people who choose what is delivered through the television networks and I kind of feel sorry that they are restricted to homegrown sports which are in return, broadcasted to the rest of the world.

F1 is a great sport and could benefit greatly by recieving interest in the US, but unless we see a significant change, I doubt we'll see a GP there anytime soon.. :)

More Americans will become aware of the World Cup as the time approaches (ESPN will see to that). If the US team actually plays well enough to win, then it'll be a hit (see what happened to the US Women's team in the 1990s). Believe it or not, I think I saw a statistic where there are more US children playing in various youth soccer leagues than play little league baseball, american football, etc. Why this hasn't translated to tv numbers, I don't know.

Part of it is also regional. Here in Seattle, the MLS Seattle Sounders FC had a hugely successful inaugural season in terms of popularity and seating at the stadium - Qwest Field - has been increased by about 1/3 from last year. Sounders will cap their season tix at 32,000. I believe the next highest
in the league is Toronto with 14,000.

I think racing has something in common with soccer in this country - once you get people to actually go to the event, they'll become fans. It's getting them to watch in the first place...

[anthonyvop]

More Americans will become aware of the World Cup as the time approaches (ESPN will see to that). If the US team actually plays well enough to win, then it'll be a hit (see what happened to the US Women's team in the 1990s).
And where is women's soccer today?




Believe it or not, I think I saw a statistic where there are more US children playing in various youth soccer leagues than play little league baseball, american football, etc. Why this hasn't translated to tv numbers, I don't know.
That has been true for over 20 years. It is called the Mom Factor. Mothers put their kids in "safe" soccer leagues until the boys reach an age where they tell their moms they would rather play football.



Part of it is also regional. Here in Seattle, the MLS Seattle Sounders FC had a hugely successful inaugural season in terms of popularity and seating at the stadium - Qwest Field - has been increased by about 1/3 from last year. Sounders will cap their season tix at 32,000. I believe the next highest
in the league is Toronto with 14,000.

Wait 3 years then look at Tix sales.


I think racing has something in common with soccer in this country - once you get people to actually go to the event, they'll become fans. It's getting them to watch in the first place...

They have been saying that for years. Who in the US hasn't seen a soccer match for at least a few minutes?

The problem with Soccer in the US is there already are established sports series which dominate the scene and nobody realistically has the $$$ to drive soccer to the top.

The same goes with F1. There are already established series in the US with GREAT marketing departments. They race almost every weekend at a time where people are in front of their TV's. F1 doesn't race every week at a ridiculous hour for Americans.

[ykiki]

That has been true for over 20 years. It is called the Mom Factor. Mothers put their kids in "safe" soccer leagues until the boys reach an age where they tell their moms they would rather play football.

I think this varies regionally. Here you don't find much in the way of youth football. Soccer leagues are everywhere. Only speaking for me and my son, he tried baseball first and liked it. Then he decided to give soccer a try and absolutely fell in love with it. Why? Because he didn't have to spend most of the game standing around like he did in baseball. I also spent most of his practices talking to the other dads. Never was there a case of Mom putting their kids in the "safe" sport. It was the kids who dictated what they wanted to play.


Wait 3 years then look at Tix sales.
Actually, it may actually go up again in 2011 when Portland and Vancouver enter the league. Many fans are looking forward to the rivalry. In fact, the smack talk has already begun. ;)



They have been saying that for years. Who in the US hasn't seen a soccer match for at least a few minutes?
Herein lies what I believe is the biggest problem. Most have seen a match tv. Some things just don't translate. There's nothing compared to going to a match in a full stadium filled with chanting, singing, drumming, flag-waving passionate fans. It's addicting. There's nothing like it, especially when there are tens of thousands of fans standing the whole game, and sections of the stadium are singing team songs non-stop. TV just can't replicate it - at least not from what I've seen on US-based broadcasts.


The problem with Soccer in the US is there already are established sports series which dominate the scene and nobody realistically has the $$$ to drive soccer to the top.
Some areas are more successful than others, but if you take the US as a whole? You're spot on.


The same goes with F1. There are already established series in the US with GREAT marketing departments. They race almost every weekend at a time where people are in front of their TV's. F1 doesn't race every week at a ridiculous hour for Americans.
You won't get an argument from me on this one. There are those of us who'll get up at 4:30 in the morning to watch a race, but many more would rather sit on the couch at one in the afternoon knowing that NASCAR will be on tv week in and week out.

[stephenw_us]

Yes, I've been thinking this. As a business student, I've been getting from USF1 exactly what I expected to get. I'd actually be MORE worried if they were a hype machine. For now, I can simply assume they're diligently working away, readying the car, instead of tooting their own horn.

That is a good point, and my hyper critical blogging notwithstanding, we do hope against all hope that they are going to defy the odds and debut with a bang...

It's hard to contemplate that however, this is ultra cutthroat F1 we are talking about, and I fear there is too much predisposition to going into the "Europe is out to get us" mode...we do not need another Michael Andretti 1993 scenario, not to mention Indy 2005 - they say bad things come in threes so I'm a bit worried....

[DazzlaF1]

Yes, I've been thinking this. As a business student, I've been getting from USF1 exactly what I expected to get. I'd actually be MORE worried if they were a hype machine. For now, I can simply assume they're diligently working away, readying the car, instead of tooting their own horn.

I can think of many timesteams have been more hype, less performance, like Toyota & Honda for example, lots of promise and billions of investment between them, with only 1 win to show for it in EIGHT YEARS.

Infact i agree with Shifter, yes there has been little said from themselves (I mean all we've seen from USF1 are videos of them constructing their tub/safety cell and how they built their nosecone), and that could be a good thing. Also the financial problems surrounding Campos have done a lot to shift the attention away from Windsor's posse which will be an extra help to them.

Also not many people mention that of the 4 new teams, USF1 are the only ones doing everything from scratch. Virgin got the help from Wirth Research, Lotus went into some purpose built facilities in Norfolk under the stewardship of one of F1's most experienced designers, and Campos have gone as far has having their car built for them by Dallara. And starting from the ground up is extremely difficult in todays world, if they even pull it off, then it will be a hell of an achievement since they were accepted just last year.

So they could end up suprising us, and silencing all the doubters in the process.

[Shifter]

I really don't see USF1 being competitive year 1, and I expect them to still be at the tail of the field year 2, however hopefully we will be talking about how they've narrowed the gap. I don't really expect them to move up until the closing rounds of year 2, and hopefully be competitive in the 3rd year. (See: Force India). Now hopefully they are able to stick it out that long, and become the 'fan-friendly' team sometime after Bahrain.

On the Soccer note: about getting people 'to the stadium' I agree, but still wonder. For instance, if I took a fellow 'car guys' to Mid-Ohio with me to see the ALMS race I would expect them to be blown away by the 'in-person' effect...but would they then become regular followers? Chances are they'll eventually slide back to talking about street cars and watching U.S. football. The other problem is younger fans like myself may not have access to the cable/satellite tiers to catch the series year-round.

[woody2goody]

While I agree with most of what has been said, I think we have a similar problem here in the UK.

A lot of people I know are extremely ignorant about American Football, Baseball, Ice Hockey and Basketball, whereas I watch all of them, some more than others.

Just last year, Five stopped broadcasting it's weekly MLB game, it's weekly NBA game and it's weekly NHL game. All we're left with is one NFL game on a Sunday night and the Superbowl (because a different channel shows the playoffs, we only get one game a week plus the Superbowl (if you don't pay for Sky)).

However it's funny, because in Britain we have a decent Ice Hockey league with 8 teams regularly getting more than 10,000 fans every few nights for a game - similar to other European leagues. Yet it's never on the TV.

Yet, last week, BBC1 broadcasted the Australian Open tennis final. Fair enough, but I'm not sure if they would have done it if Andy Murray wasn't playing. It may have otherwise been on the red button.

I also enjoy NASCAR and to a lesser extent the IRL. But, despite this, something in me just prefers F1 and I think always will too.

I am extremely shocked though, at how little regard even the North Carolina media have for USF1, and regardless of all the jokes we have made and some predictions that they will not be ready, it's still a big surprise.

Maybe F1 is considered too elite. North Carolina is a great sporting state, but a lot of this success has come in 'working men's' sports like wrestling and football and NASCAR.

It will be interesting to see if anything crops up in the media when it's time to race in Bahrain.

[NCF1Fan]

Thanks Woody...very insightful (and that seems many times seems to be lacking on these forums.) I agree, I am keeping the faith that USF1 will have everything ready in the next 6 weeks. I just saw a report inidcating another driver close to being signed.

I do not however think that lack of coverage or interest is due to F1 being seen as an "elite" sport. I think it is more simply put, due to geography. We tend to forget how recent global TV and new coverage really is. Lets face it, F1 is centered in Europe. Sure there are races in the middle East and Asia, but what is the real fan following there? Where are the hardcore fans? Just look at the posters in this forum, that should give us a pretty good idea.

In the US, rivalries between States and regions are similar to the rivalries between the countries in Europe. Thats why NASCAR always identifies a driver by their "hometown"...the place he is originally from. Of course all of them live in Charlotte. Same with the NBA, NFL, NHL...the colleges and hometowns of the players are prominent in the introductions.

So the internet and sattelite communications has quickly made the world a much smaller place, but tradition and the things that you become interested in through family and friends live a very long time. So sure you could get NFL games in the UK, but who cares, everyone wants to see the Premier League.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[V12]

I would go so far as to say F1 is a minority interest sport everywhere actually. In school (and I'm only talking 10 or 15 years ago here), I would always be getting ribbed for being the only one that preferred F1 over football. Although I know things have probably changed since then thanks to Bernie's PR machine and so on, but football is still the most popular sport in this country by quite some way.

I would guess NASCAR has broke the mould in the US by being more entertainment than sports (although F1 is going down this route at an alarming rate since 2003, which might explain why it's more popular in the mainstream than it used to be, since I actually know other people who follow it now!)

Having said that, I can't think of a single country (including the US) where any form of motor racing is considered the "national sport". It appears to be football in most of Europe and Latin America (and probably most of Africa as well), cricket in the Asian sub-continent, rugby and similar games in Australia/NZ, etc.

[Mia 01]

This topic only create new enemies, stay of it.

People in US are humans like us, give them a break.

What do we know of Nascar?

[woody2goody]

I know a lot of people who occasionally watch the odd Grand Prix, and have heard of most of the drivers, but they won't watch every race, practice, qualifying and everything that most of us do here.

The you get the idiots who say 'I only watch it for the crashes', or 'it's too long'. Which I don't get, because while most of us don't mind the odd tangle or harmless trip into the barriers, the 'too long' excuse is pathetic as most F1 races go on for less time than a football match if you include half time as well.

A lot of people use that for US Sports too. They say they are too 'stop-start', but in football and rugby there are a lot of stoppages. Only difference being that the clock isn't stopped and injury time is played (apart from rugby league).

I think it would be great if more Brits and Americans shared their knowledge about their sports, then they would appreciate them more.

[anthonyvop]

Basketball is an American Sport and yet has achieved quite the world wide appeal.

How did they do it?

[woody2goody]

Basketball is an American Sport and yet has achieved quite the world wide appeal.

How did they do it?

Well for a start a lot of countries play it, and a lot of the world's best players are non-North American.

There are very good European leagues and most countries have a decent structure and good arenas to play in.

[stephenw_us]

Basketball is a perfect example.

The NBA calls the winner of that championship World Champions. That claim was made to look ridiculous in the Summer Olympics in 2004.

My point in bringing this up is that over the years in bantering on racing forums I've been in countless exchanges with American race fans whom are arguing vehemently against the idea that F1 is a world championship because as they claim it is "European" and that's essentially comparable to the diversity of people from the various states in America. Hello?

I mean, I'm convinced that I've been arguing with people whom have never traveled outside of the United States because the idea that Europe is essentially same as the United States is ridiculous...

Compare a Finnish drivers to a Spanish driver for example...you are telling me that this comparison would be similar to comparing say a NASCAR driver from California and one from North Carolina? It's absurd.

[Shifter]

Part of Basketball's popularity is the 'i can do it too' factor. Not everyone is dedicated enough to own a caged amateur sports racing car, but anyone can find a basketball hoop to shoot at. Meanwhile, in the southern U.S. it's reasonably easy to find a big ole american car, weld in some bars, and race the local tracks--thus the NASCAR popularity. I've even considered doing it myself but I want to remain focused on road racing.

[NCF1Fan]

Stoppage is the key to televised sports in the US. That is one reason that soccer has a problem with TV in the US. NASCAR has stoppages. Caution Flags that allow each competitor to catch up. That does 2 things; provides TV commercial time, and keeps the "competition" close. And I would bet the average NFL game has more commercial minutes than playing time.

I dont have a problem calling it the F1 World Championship. It includes all of the races that are F1. Calling it simply "The World Driving Championship" is different. Same with basketball. The NBA World Champion is exactly that...the champions based on the entire NBA. Again "World Basketball Champion" would be different.

[stephenw_us]

Stoppage is the key to televised sports in the US. That is one reason that soccer has a problem with TV in the US. NASCAR has stoppages. Caution Flags that allow each competitor to catch up. That does 2 things; provides TV commercial time, and keeps the "competition" close. And I would bet the average NFL game has more commercial minutes than playing time.

I dont have a problem calling it the F1 World Championship. It includes all of the races that are F1. Calling it simply "The World Driving Championship" is different. Same with basketball. The NBA World Champion is exactly that...the champions based on the entire NBA. Again "World Basketball Champion" would be different.

Exactly.

You and 99% of American race fans. I think it's fascinating - because if you look at it objectively, you've got the best cars in the world on the best tracks in the world with the best drivers from everywhere, not mostly from one country - from Russia, Finland, Japan, Brazil...and on and on.

Road racing is the purest test of driver skill.

It's the World Championship - it's our American psyche that makes us refuse to accept this reality - it really is a remarkable little piece of insight into who we are as Americans...

[Lemmy-Boy]

Lets face it, F1 is centered in Europe. Sure there are races in the middle East and Asia, but what is the real fan following there? Where are the hardcore fans? Just look at the posters in this forum, that should give us a pretty good idea.

In the US, rivalries between States and regions are similar to the rivalries between the countries in Europe. Thats why NASCAR always identifies a driver by their "hometown"...the place he is originally from. Of course all of them live in Charlotte. Same with the NBA, NFL, NHL...the colleges and hometowns of the players are prominent in the introductions.

Your analysis is totally correct. In America, there's way too many sporting alternatives competing for market share. The USA has multiple sporting organizations that spend BILLIONS in marketing to compete for entertainment dollars (NFL, NASCAR, NBA, NCAA, MMA, ETC). These multi-BILLION dollar sporting organizations (in a single nation) have massive advertising campaigns that's unrivaled to the rest of the world. Given this heavy dose of sporting competition, Bernie and CVC needs more than the SpeedTV channel or an ad in the USA TODAY to promote a single race. And we need to remember, F1 is a traveling circus that's only held ONCE A YEAR in most countries.

You also need to consider that F1 is way too European. As much as I love F1, it will always be viewed in the same light as Soccer (Futbol) in the USA - a global sport but viewed as too European or boring for the largest market in the world.

In order to promote a SINGLE race in the USA, F1 (Like it or not) needs to Americanize their product. And most important of all, F1 needs to maintain a permanent and large presence in the country. Plus, they will need to effectively clash with the 200 lb Gorilla, known as NASCAR - a series that's filled with American race teams (sponsored by Fortune 500 companies) and American drivers.

[stephenw_us]

Your analysis is totally correct. In America, there's way too many sporting alternatives competing for market share. The USA has multiple sporting organizations that spend BILLIONS in marketing to compete for entertainment dollars (NFL, NASCAR, NBA, NCAA, MMA, ETC). These multi-BILLION dollar sporting organizations (in a single nation) have massive advertising campaigns that's unrivaled to the rest of the world. Given this heavy dose of sporting competition, Bernie and CVC needs more than the SpeedTV channel or an ad in the USA TODAY to promote a single race. And we need to remember, F1 is a traveling circus that's only held ONCE A YEAR in most countries.

You also need to consider that F1 is way too European. As much as I love F1, it will always be viewed in the same light as Soccer (Futbol) in the USA - a global sport but viewed as too European or boring for the largest market in the world.

In order to promote a SINGLE race in the USA, F1 (Like it or not) needs to Americanize their product. And most important of all, F1 needs to maintain a permanent and large presence in the country. Plus, they will need to effectively clash with the 200 lb Gorilla, known as NASCAR - a series that's filled with American race teams (sponsored by Fortune 500 companies) and American drivers.

I rest my case.

[NCF1Fan]

I rest my case.

Quite honestly Stephen, I'm not sure which cast that is. Like it or not, it is officially the Formula One World Driving Championship. Whenever you call anything the best (best drivers, best circuits...etc.) it opens up the can of subjectivity. There are likely many WRC fans that would argue that driving on planned, paved circuits is not really racing either.

I happen to agree (not sure why I feel you are arguing with me on this) that F1 is the top of the line when it comes to motorsports. But getting back to the original post of this thread, the reasons it is not popular in the US are many and the answers complex.

And I still hope the USF1 team will make it to the grid!

[stephenw_us]

Quite honestly Stephen, I'm not sure which cast that is. Like it or not, it is officially the Formula One World Driving Championship. Whenever you call anything the best (best drivers, best circuits...etc.) it opens up the can of subjectivity. There are likely many WRC fans that would argue that driving on planned, paved circuits is not really racing either.

I happen to agree (not sure why I feel you are arguing with me on this) that F1 is the top of the line when it comes to motorsports. But getting back to the original post of this thread, the reasons it is not popular in the US are many and the answers complex.

And I still hope the USF1 team will make it to the grid!

I think you do know - this week belongs to NASCAR, so I'm not willing to get into this more now...but this theme will come up a lot this year I am sure so plenty of time to discuss later...

[Saint Devote]

I think you do know - this week belongs to NASCAR, so I'm not willing to get into this more now...but this theme will come up a lot this year I am sure so plenty of time to discuss later...

Before the NASCAR or any other car racing championship there was the EDC - European Drivers Championship. This dated back to 1930. It was the ONLY international championship.

Prior to that, there were the great races such as the Mille Miglia and individual races on circuits such as Brooklands.

The Eurpean Drivers Championship WAS the championship that anyone had to participate in to become a racing champion. Drivers internationally did so - that became the F1 World Championship.

Without getting into the usual pissing contest - it is YOU that has to understand what goes on. And that the F1 UNIVERSALLY remains the only championship where the driver is crowned World Champion.

Further, the stark reality is that to F1 people like myself, what happens in NASCAR or any other sport is irrelevant.

There always attempts to try and "qualify" or "deny" the foundation and lineage of F1. Just like all the others, you too will fail. The facts, the truth and reality is on our side.

And while to F1 people like myself how big the sport is, is unimportant, I will add, that based on tv viewing, only World Cup Soccer and the Summer Olympics have greater viewership numbers.

I just realized: F1 WINS the pissing contest too!!!

And this week coming does not "belong to NASCAR" - there are the second F1 testing days at Jerez and that is far more important than anything connected to the "racing taxi cabs with carburettors"!!! Ye gods!!!

[DexDexter]

Basketball is an American Sport and yet has achieved quite the world wide appeal.

How did they do it?

Since when has basketball achieved world wide appeal? Quite a lot of people play it but generally it's a niche sport.


Basketball is a perfect example.

The NBA calls the winner of that championship World Champions. That claim was made to look ridiculous in the Summer Olympics in 2004.

My point in bringing this up is that over the years in bantering on racing forums I've been in countless exchanges with American race fans whom are arguing vehemently against the idea that F1 is a world championship because as they claim it is "European" and that's essentially comparable to the diversity of people from the various states in America. Hello?

I mean, I'm convinced that I've been arguing with people whom have never traveled outside of the United States because the idea that Europe is essentially same as the United States is ridiculous...

Compare a Finnish drivers to a Spanish driver for example...you are telling me that this comparison would be similar to comparing say a NASCAR driver from California and one from North Carolina? It's absurd.

Good post. I recent the notion many of you have that we are "Europeans" in the same way that you are Americans. Let's face it, an Englishman has lot more in common with an American than a Finn, for example.

American sports are full of this world champion-stuff without any merit. From a foreigner's perspective it's impossible to understand how A CLUB from an American city can be labeled as World Champion, that's just hilarious. Does anybody have any idea where that comes from, the constant we're the best mantra??

[52Paddy]

And we need to remember, F1 is a traveling circus that's only held ONCE A YEAR in most countries.

In order to promote a SINGLE race in the USA, F1 (Like it or not) needs to Americanize their product. And most important of all, F1 needs to maintain a permanent and large presence in the country.

America has some really nice road courses that should be used for F1. I never thought F1 fitted well with Indianapolis. But there are plenty of alternatives like Laguna Seca or Road America. Is there a reason why these tracks have not been used (or considered)? And those that have been used, like Sebring and Watkins Glen, would be more than welcome back in my opinion :) Maybe it's a case of those tracks not wanting F1 - I'm not sure, I'm really asking a question here.

However, since the 1980s, the USA has really failed to come up with a good racing course with which to race on. If it's not some purpose-built disaster like Caesar's Palace, then it's awful street circuits like Dallas, Detroit and Phoenix. Was the sport any popular in America when there was two GPs a year held in the country (1973 - Watkins Glen & Long Beach off the top of my head)?

I wonder would holding 2 races in Canada, or one in Mexico help the situation.

[Easy Drifter]

One problem with places like the Glen and Elkhart is the distance from major cities, and Bernie's financial demands. Further both and Laguna would require huge expenditure to meet F1's safety and 'housing' demands. Complete new pit garages for one.
Same applies in Canada. St Jovite is too close to Mtl to host a second F1 race. Huge expediture required to meet F1 demands as well.
Mosport is the only other suitable venue but no pit structure and safety concerns. Mosport is close enough to Toronto and the GTA with 6 million people but I doubt it could hold more than 60,000 people without building grandstands. It just takes cubic dollars.
The new track proposed near Fort Erie might meet the criteria. It is almost at the US border and would draw from the GTA (2 to 3 hours from Toronto proper) minutes from Buffalo, 2 hours from Rochester and 2 to 3 from Cleveland. But the border is a big hangup. Lineups even now can be a pain. Add in that the majority of US citizens do not have passports. Canada does not require they do but the US won't let them back in without one!

[stephenw_us]

And this week coming does not "belong to NASCAR" - there are the second F1 testing days at Jerez and that is far more important than anything connected to the "racing taxi cabs with carburettors"!!! Ye gods!!!

I think the Daytona 500 might be a little more exciting than pre-season F1 testing...but then again, I'm just an idiot American (why don't you try actually reading the thread before you post?)

[Jag_Warrior]

Along with more than a few other people, I thought that Bernie's great error of the 1990's was not forming an alliance with CART, once the IRL was founded. Once a competitor, CART still had a larger audience share than F1 did here. I believe they could have worked something out and maintained the open wheel market here. One thing that I think is rather obvious (now): if open wheel racing, in general, isn't popular in the U.S., then F1 isn't going to be that popular in the U.S. either. I don't see the Nielsens for F1 that much anymore. But the last ones I saw showed that F1 (on Fox) didn't get the ratings that the struggling IRL got (on ABC).

To grow the series here, the sport itself has to be strong here. And right now, it's even money as to whether or not there will even be a "premier domestic series" in the U.S. in a couple of years. I think Bernie won the battle but lost the war here.

As for USF1, or whatever it's being called this week, I hope they make it. But it has enough joke like qualities right now that I'm not all that hopeful. And I'm not at all surprised that few people, even around Charlotte, know the first thing about it.

[nigelred5]

And this week coming does not "belong to NASCAR" - there are the second F1 testing days at Jerez and that is far more important than anything connected to the "racing taxi cabs with carburettors"!!! Ye gods!!!

Please, tell me where I can watch the 800 hours of pre-race and live racing action over the weekend from Jerez in the US? I can basically watch Daytona race coverage from now until, hmmm next wednesday? Even to the F1 season, pre season testing results essentially mean nothing. :rolleyes:

[stephenw_us]

Along with more than a few other people, I thought that Bernie's great error of the 1990's was not forming an alliance with CART, once the IRL was founded. Once a competitor, CART still had a larger audience share than F1 did here. I believe they could have worked something out and maintained the open wheel market here. One thing that I think is rather obvious (now): if open wheel racing, in general, isn't popular in the U.S., then F1 isn't going to be that popular in the U.S. either. I don't see the Nielsens for F1 that much anymore. But the last ones I saw showed that F1 (on Fox) didn't get the ratings that the struggling IRL got (on ABC).

To grow the series here, the sport itself has to be strong here. And right now, it's even money as to whether or not there will even be a "premier domestic series" in the U.S. in a couple of years. I think Bernie won the battle but lost the war here.

As for USF1, or whatever it's being called this week, I hope they make it. But it has enough joke like qualities right now that I'm not all that hopeful. And I'm not at all surprised that few people, even around Charlotte, know the first thing about it.

I can't really agree with this post.

The reality is Bernie doesn't care about the United States, and he's openly stated as to why. The car manufacturers care, and we all know how loyal to F1 they are.

I don't blame him - F1 is a global brand, wildly successful - the idea of playing subserviant biatch to the United States is laughable - I'd feel the same way if I were him. Don't like our brand of racing? Don't want global exposure for your city? Fine - no soup for you.

Bernie is nobody's fool least of all arrogant whining Americans...

As for CART and the IRL both sports were and are badly mismanaged, where as F1 is a stable brand with an intact tradition and legacy...in fact CART positioned itslef as an F1 competitor and obviously we know who came out of top of that one...again Bernie does not see the United States as vital...why would he with India and Russia knocking on his door?

Also the premiere race in F1 has never suffered indignity from adding a restrictor plate or a series split that devalued the race - it's the purest race out there along with Lemans...

The fact is that right now F1 is in the catbird seat...

[Jag_Warrior]

I can't really agree with this post.

The reality is Bernie doesn't care about the United States, and he's openly stated as to why. The car manufacturers care, and we all know how loyal to F1 they are.

I don't blame him - F1 is a global brand, wildly successful - the idea of playing subserviant biatch to the United States is laughable - I'd feel the same way if I were him. Don't like our brand of racing? Don't want global exposure for your city? Fine - no soup for you.

Bernie is nobody's fool least of all arrogant whining Americans...

As for CART and the IRL both sports were and are badly mismanaged, where as F1 is a stable brand with an intact tradition and legacy...in fact CART positioned itslef as an F1 competitor and obviously we know who came out of top of that one...again Bernie does not see the United States as vital...why would he with India and Russia knocking on his door?

Also the premiere race in F1 has never suffered indignity from adding a restrictor plate or a series split that devalued the race - it's the purest race out there along with Lemans...

The fact is that right now F1 is in the catbird seat...


Yes, let's assume that what's good for (80 year old) Bernie is what's good for F1, and formula car racing in general. So says Bernie... so say we all! :rolleyes:

I'm not sure what that hyperbolic foolishness about whining Americans and restrictor plates is about. But I believe that what few Americans there are that still follow Formula One, would most certainly like to see formula car racing be something more than a niche sport here. Your mileage may vary...

[evooo]

something about american sports makes me conclude that the greater population are family and outdoors oriented. To me, this would mean that for a family event to happen, a lot of the time you need some regularity. Coupled with TV style sports, would have to connect to a greater audience and remain entertaining for 2hrs (eg. similar to the movie industry).

And you would find that with the major 'league' sports events in the US.
MLB/NFL/NHL/NBA. In terms of the NBA, don't each team play something ridiculous like 72 games a season? This is how much exposure they and their sponsors get.

Nothing like F1, where as someone mentioned, only occurs once a year on a local scale. F1 is largely aimed at the TV audience.

One other thing about the major sports is that there is only 1 'code' that is dominant. There is essentially no rival league, unlike in Australia - we have AFL, Soccer, Rugby (Union and League) in terms of 'codes' of football, competing against Cricket (5day tests, 1 day tests, 20/20, national league, Indian league), etc.

What this means is that in terms of motorsports, NASCAR takes the cake. For some reason it is the mainstay 'code' of motorsports, with sufficient regularity and entertainment for the audience, with IRL taking a backseat.

F1 (IMHO) would never be able to achieve such a status.

I hope I made sense :)


ps. stephenw_us: did you mean catbert?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Catbert.png/200px-Catbert.png

[airshifter]

And this week coming does not "belong to NASCAR" - there are the second F1 testing days at Jerez and that is far more important than anything connected to the "racing taxi cabs with carburettors"!!! Ye gods!!!

In commercial terms here in the US, F1 may as well not even exist until a few days after Daytona. I hardly watched anything motorsports related the last couple of days, but I think I heard Danica's name about 200 times. I'm surprised they didn't cover what she ate the morning of the race.

IMHO until we have a number of US based F1 races the popularity won't change very much. There are so many motorsports that run a lot in the US that the US fans get spoiled by it and expect it. And let's face it, with the majority of races starting early morning or late evening, the US live viewing audience for F1 is probably very low.

[stephenw_us]

Yes, let's assume that what's good for (80 year old) Bernie is what's good for F1, and formula car racing in general. So says Bernie... so say we all! :rolleyes:

Where is IndyCar today? Seems like the old man has it figured out...

[beachbum]

There are many interesting theories on this thread, but as an America who once got up early in the morning to watch whatever F1 coverage I could find, I think some hit the mark and some didn't. IHMO F1 has a couple "problems".

It has no US presence. There are no US races, no US drivers, one "US" team that is US in name only (assuming it ever makes it to the grid -doubtful). In the day when they ran at the Glen, F1 got a surprising amount of US media coverage.

The US society is no longer as "car centric" as it once was. When I was younger, many of the car ads promoted performance and image. Now it is all about ecology and promoting my SUV gets 1 mpg better than yours. Exotic cars in any form just aren't relevant to the average "Joe". One of the reasons NASCAR still pulls fans is that the cars are not exotic and resemble real cars - sorta. To many people, a car is an appliance, nothing more.

It is boring racing. I watch qualifying as that is often the real race. Other than a few miscues in the pits or mechanical problems, there is often no passing with cars far apart. Watch the start, watch the pit stops, and you have seen all of the action in the race.

It is viewed as elitist by many. Many of the races are funded by governments, the sport is ridiculously expensive, and many fans think it is a sport run by a couple old rich guys who know nothing of the real world. Monaco is the prime example of this attitude. A race run with a harbor full of rich playboys watching a race run by rich playboys. It may not be accurate, but perception is often more important that reality.

The last I think is the biggest issue even if it isn't politically correct. How is an inner city kid, or a kid from the country going to relate to F1?

IHMO, it isn't about participation as all forms of sports cars are very popular in the US with lots of local racers, and yet with few exceptions, it isn't a big draw on TV. It is a bit like soccer. Lost of amateur support, but not so much at the professional level.

[nigelred5]

Oh, I've seen spots about Danica's exercise and diet.



Apparently, no one can convince very many US television executives that F1 demands more coverage.

[airshifter]

I must admit I've come across similar people who argue that F1 is not a World Championship. Considering we have drivers originating from South America, Europe, Asia, and Australia, I find it difficult to see things from their perspective. Three of the five continents isn't bad and obviously it would be great to get a driver from Africa and Antartica to complete the full definition of World Championship, but its a better example than a largely American based sport IMO. If thats the mentality of your average Nascar fan, then I don't expect to see a large American audience anytime soon. :)

Considering that NASCAR has drivers from both North and South Amercia, Europe, and Austalia, what is the major difference?

In terms of geography NASCAR probably covers almost as much if not more ground in terms of miles between races, it's simply that those miles take place in one vast country and more races vs F1 with the majority of races in or near Europe and a couple of long distance travel races.

As much as people like to stereotype other motorsports fans, is it any surprise that fans in a particular region are more likely to be fans of the motorsport that is primarily based in that region?

[DexDexter]

Considering that NASCAR has drivers from both North and South Amercia, Europe, and Austalia, what is the major difference?

In terms of geography NASCAR probably covers almost as much if not more ground in terms of miles between races, it's simply that those miles take place in one vast country and more races vs F1 with the majority of races in or near Europe and a couple of long distance travel races.

As much as people like to stereotype other motorsports fans, is it any surprise that fans in a particular region are more likely to be fans of the motorsport that is primarily based in that region?

No series can really be labeled as World Championship it if only has races in one or two countries. The majority of F1 races are indeed in Europe but Europe is a continent, not a country.

[Jag_Warrior]

Where is IndyCar today? Seems like the old man has it figured out...

Getting higher TV ratings than F1 does here... since the topic is about F1 in the U.S. ;)

My post just completely went over your head, didn't it? Never mind... :rolleyes:

[stephenw_us]

There really isn't much more to add...as predicted the comments from Americans are all about marginalizing F1 and over stating the value of national series and/or national perspective.

Add the Bernie insults in there and you have the SpeedTV F1 Forum. :rolleyes:

As an American it is just plain embarrassing to read this stuff on an international stage...

[Jag_Warrior]

F1 (especially now) has nothing more than a miniscule, niche following in the U.S. And since you’re flying the Stars & Stripes, and list Seattle as your home city, I’m going to assume that you live here. So, with ratings that are lower than the IRL’s when they’re both on over-air networks, can you list five, or heck, even one good reason why Fox would continue paying for the broadcast rights to F1??? Hmm? ESPN has no interest, last I heard. Oh, I know… maybe Versus will pick it up. :rolleyes: Or maybe we can all buy those 20 foot satellite dishes from the 1980’s and grab the signal from Canada or Mexico. Or maybe you could place a call to your man Bernie and he’ll give it to us for free. Yeah, I’ll send you a quarter and you make that call. If that day comes (and if the ratings are still in the tank when the contract is up, it might), please let me know how that call goes.

I love F1… and have since I was a child. But I am concerned about my future ability to see it on anything other than an internet feed if things don’t pick up. I’m pretty sure that Bernie doesn’t give two craps about me… so I don’t waste my time with childish hero worship of him.

IRL ratings beat F1 ratings here. Hell, most every racing series beats F1 ratings here. For that reason alone, I would like for F1 to be more popular here. Exclusivity only works with certain expensive cars and restaurants that stay fully booked. So it goes without saying (I would think!), that if formula car racing in general was more popular here, F1 would be more popular here. There would be less chance that we're going to get stuck with some backwater, make believe network where nobody knows the channel number.

And anybody that misses the Speed TV F1 forum, don't let the door bruise your butt on the way out. :wave:

[stephenw_us]

I'm sure Bernie loses sleep over the IRL ratings....

lol - what a joke.

[nigelred5]

Maybe not, however he should considering US F1 ratings are even lower than IRL. Even in a car market that is in shambles, The american car market is still hugely important. I'm sure he has lost sleep loosing Toyota, Honda and BMW, each of whom consider the US as their single largest and most important markets. It's no secret all three were very open with their displeasure over the lack of a USGP before they all left F1. That was what, around $1bn USD annual investment between their three teams. I guess they all figured out F1 doesn't sell cars in this country. To be honest, the days when participating in any series selling cars in this country are pretty much long gone.

[garyshell]

I'm sure Bernie loses sleep over the IRL ratings....

lol - what a joke.


Who suggested he did or should. Go back and read what Jag said. He said the ratings were lower and because of that Bernie should worry about anyone wanting to pay his fees to broadcast F1 in the US. The IRL numbers were there only to set a context. Take off your blinders for a second and read what was actually written.

Gary

[airshifter]

There really isn't much more to add...as predicted the comments from Americans are all about marginalizing F1 and over stating the value of national series and/or national perspective.

Add the Bernie insults in there and you have the SpeedTV F1 Forum. :rolleyes:

As an American it is just plain embarrassing to read this stuff on an international stage...

It's embarrassing to think that people from the US stating their opinions is taken as "marginalizing" F1.

Though I have no problem with NASCAR or any other series, I'd gladly trade the amount of US coverage they get for F1 coverage in a second. But that's about as likely as the US networks dropping football coverage in favor of soccer.

Without more direct exposure it's likely that F1 won't ever grow much in the US.

[Jag_Warrior]

Who suggested he did or should. Go back and read what Jag said. He said the ratings were lower and because of that Bernie should worry about anyone wanting to pay his fees to broadcast F1 in the US. The IRL numbers were there only to set a context. Take off your blinders for a second and read what was actually written.

Gary

It's a waste of time, Gary. It's like trying to explain physics to a newborn baby. In fact, you'd probably have better luck with the newborn.

[Jag_Warrior]

lol - what a joke.

Quite an ironic post. :dozey:

[stephenw_us]

Maybe not, however he should considering US F1 ratings are even lower than IRL. Even in a car market that is in shambles, The american car market is still hugely important. I'm sure he has lost sleep loosing Toyota, Honda and BMW, each of whom consider the US as their single largest and most important markets. It's no secret all three were very open with their displeasure over the lack of a USGP before they all left F1. That was what, around $1bn USD annual investment between their three teams. I guess they all figured out F1 doesn't sell cars in this country. To be honest, the days when participating in any series selling cars in this country are pretty much long gone.

Is that a bad thing? What did Honda, Toyota, and BMW do except spend the privateers into oblivion, almost rip it apart with a split, and get on their high horses in FOTA and start making demands?

Again, I ask, why should F1 cowtow to American interests, and the so called "American fans" who demand the sport abandon its roots? - what is the formula for F1 success in the US being submitted here....let's see, let me make sure I get this right: prop up failed IndyCar, cancel Monaco, get the godaddy girl to drive a car in a bikini, enforce parity, run two races in the United States with a huge FOM fee discount, and sit there at press junkets and field questions about how much better NASCAR is than F1 and why doesn't F1 become more like NASCAR...am I missing anything?

Riddle me this batman, how are the IRL ratings doing in Brazil in comparison to F1 ratings? It's laughable to even bring the IRL into this discussion, they are a non-factor. F1's SpeedTV deal is orders of magnitude better, Bernie isn't putting the show on a different channel ever year...I get it, I get this entire debate - it's the same old same old... :o

The american market is not strategic for F1, it's been proven again and again.

[garyshell]

Again, I ask, why should F1 cowtow to American interests, and the so called "American fans" who demand the sport abandon its roots? - what is the formula for F1 success in the US being submitted here....let's see, let me make sure I get this right: prop up failed IndyCar, cancel Monaco, get the godaddy girl to drive a car in a bikini, enforce parity, run two races in the United States with a huge FOM fee discount, and sit there at press junkets and field questions about how much better NASCAR is than F1 and why doesn't F1 become more like NASCAR...am I missing anything?

Where the hell are you getting this stuff? Who is making ANY of those suggestions about propping up Indycar, canceling Monaco, putting the princess in a car? The only thing you said in that paragraph that rings with even a scintilla of truth is the call for a reduction in BERNIE'S extortion money. The rest is just crap.


Riddle me this batman, how are the IRL ratings doing in Brazil in comparison to F1 ratings? It's laughable to even bring the IRL into this discussion, they are a non-factor. F1's SpeedTV deal is orders of magnitude better, Bernie isn't putting the show on a different channel ever year...I get it, I get this entire debate - it's the same old same old... :o

The american market is not strategic for F1, it's been proven again and again.


No what is laughable is that you DON'T get it. No one was talking about the ratings in Brazil. The ONLY reason the IRL ratings were even mentioned was in relation to the Speed Channel contract and that the cost to pay off Bernie's fees may not be warranted given the FACT that the ratings are so low. The IRL was only mentioned to show HOW low, the comparison could just have easily been made to some other sport with low numbers. But the IRL numbers were more germane.

If the American market is so unimportant, why does Bernie keep pursuing it and why do the F1 sponsors keep insisting that he does? What is it that you think YOU know that they don't?

[DexDexter]

Where the hell are you getting this stuff? Who is making ANY of those suggestions about propping up Indycar, canceling Monaco, putting the princess in a car? The only thing you said in that paragraph that rings with even a scintilla of truth is the call for a reduction in BERNIE'S extortion money. The rest is just crap.


Just out of curiosity, why should you get F1 cheaper than other countries or why should the teams/Bernie demand less money than they can get? Isn't what you call extortion the very thing the US and A is about, capitalism? IMO as long has nobody is willing to pay the fee and update just one racing circuit up to a level (F1)of dozens of circuits around the world, the US in fact doesn't deserve a GP. F1 doesn't need the US, there are plenty of other sports who don't either, football being the prime example.

[nigelred5]

You can just as easily lump Silverstone in there with the discounted sanctioning fees. Why does GB deserve the same? Unless your home country has a large fraction of the world's oil supply under it's soil, or 1/4 of earth's inhabitants above it, how do you pay. The US doesn't have a race because our National government won't pay for something the vast majority of our citizens are indifferent to.

Well, Toyota, Honda and BMW are three examples of what effect the US automobile market has on manufacturer involvement in F1. I'm fully in favor of more privateer type involvement, but someone needs to supply those engines, and more importantly, sponsorship.

[DexDexter]

You can just as easily lump Silverstone in there with the discounted sanctioning fees. Why does GB deserve the same? Unless your home country has a large fraction of the world's oil supply under it's soil, or 1/4 of earth's inhabitants above it, how do you pay. The US doesn't have a race because our National government won't pay for something the vast majority of our citizens are indifferent to.

Well, Toyota, Honda and BMW are three examples of what effect the US automobile market has on manufacturer involvement in F1. I'm fully in favor of more privateer type involvement, but someone needs to supply those engines, and more importantly, sponsorship.

Silverstone needs to be in the F1 calendar along with Monza and couple of other races since they are the core of F1, the US isn't.

[SGWilko]

Silverstone needs to be in the F1 calendar along with Monza and couple of other races since they are the core of F1, the US isn't.

GB has always been the supplier of motor racing expertise - not quite sure why given the Brits can't mass produce cars for toffee.

The only F1 folk shouting for a US race was BMW - and where are they now?

USA has never really taken F1 to their hearts, an that's fine. Canda enjoys its race, and has a good following.

No one should be moaning at the Americans for not paying much attention to F1.

[nigelred5]

So there is a double standard then.....I'll remember next time I go looking for a British built car owned by a British company. Oh wait, I can't find one. ;)

There was a USGP for over 30 years as I remember, and many of those years there were multiple well attended USGP's. What changed that? Exhorbitant sanctioning fees.

[nigelred5]

I seem to recall Toyota and Honda as well, but BMW certainly were top of the order considering We are their largest single market. Honda has the IRL and Toyota has Nascar. Bmw had no real, large racing presence in the US.

[nigelred5]

GB has always been the supplier of motor racing expertise - not quite sure why given the Brits can't mass produce cars for toffee.

Because they are still sticking Bosch labels over the Lucas electronics ;)

The Top Gear tribute to British Leyland was hysterical! If only they would have mixed that episode with their constant bashing of US brands it would have bee ngreat. It would have pointed out how hypocritical they are sometimes. It's funny when they have to admit they like cars like the Cadillac CTS. I'm not sure what that POS with the Chevy badge they drive is, It's not an American Car. I still love the show. :)

[DexDexter]

GB has always been the supplier of motor racing expertise - not quite sure why given the Brits can't mass produce cars for toffee.

The only F1 folk shouting for a US race was BMW - and where are they now?

USA has never really taken F1 to their hearts, an that's fine. Canda enjoys its race, and has a good following.

No one should be moaning at the Americans for not paying much attention to F1.

My dad tells me that there were quite a lot of British cars over here in the 60s and early 70s, more than Japanese.... Same goes with computers, Sinclair was pretty "hot" in the mid-80s but then they just fell of the radar.

[SGWilko]

unfortunately Unions got involved

Don't forget the 'wonderful for Rover' Phoenix Four.

My view of unions is thus;

One look at your average union leader tells you all you need to know.....

[I am evil Homer]

Unions didn't design bad cars like the Maestro, Montego, 214, 800 etc. They may have led to them being more expensive but cramped, bad to drive and unreliable? That's just bad engineering....not merely who put the things together at Longbridge or wherever.

French workers are more unionised yet they produced better cars, with superior engineering and at a cheaper price.

Anyway we digress :D US F1 - a joke.

[Jag_Warrior]

Silverstone needs to be in the F1 calendar along with Monza and couple of other races since they are the core of F1, the US isn't.

Yes, but Bernie didn't seem to feel that there even needed to be a British Grand Prix, much less a race at Silverstone... unless he could have it on his terms. As long as he has it on his terms, I'd say the British Grand Prix at Silverstone is safe. But he went on & on for years, threatening the race's future. The one and only race which I feel is "safe" is Monaco.

As fans, we have emotional attachments to certain races. Some of the newer races have been surprisingly good. But I'd prefer to watch one race in Monaco, Monza, Montreal or Silverstone than a half dozen on one of the new sand tracks (generally speaking).

This new fellow seems to be a bit thick (as nicely as I can put it). But all I'm trying to say is that if formula car racing (in general) is relatively popular in a country, it stands to reason that F1 would be (more) popular in that country. Networks operate on the profit motive. So if women's beach volleyball generates higher ratings and more revenue than F1 does, it only makes sense to go with what puts the most $ in the network's pocket. The new guy apparently can get a TV feed from Brazil on his 20 foot satellite dish up in Seattle, so I figure he's got it covered. :D

[stephenw_us]

The idea that IndyCar needs to be more popular for F1 to be more popular is sorry to point out, a ridiculous assertion.

I understand that Versus shows hockey games and the like, but can you please alert me when SpeedTV starts broadcasting non-motorsport programming?

IndyCar is a JOKE. F1 is the premiere racing series ON THE PLANET. IndyCar does not matter. No one is watching. Go to the front page of speedtv.com - see the Formula One tab? Can you please point out where the IndyCar tab is located?

Thanks in advance.

[NCF1Fan]

please alert me when SpeedTV starts broadcasting non-motorsport programming?

Define non-motorsport programming. I think there is a lot of programming on Speed that I classify as non-motorsport. e.g. Hours of Barrett-Jackson auctions, and reality shows that are tangentially related to motorsports.

Just my opinion though. It is obviously paying the bills for Speed.

[DexDexter]

Yes, but Bernie didn't seem to feel that there even needed to be a British Grand Prix, much less a race at Silverstone... unless he could have it on his terms. As long as he has it on his terms, I'd say the British Grand Prix at Silverstone is safe. But he went on & on for years, threatening the race's future. The one and only race which I feel is "safe" is Monaco.


I don't know, I think Bernie's threats about the British GP have always been just that, just threats. The UK is F1 in reality, it's were the industry is at and so on.

I hope there is a USGP in the future, IMO it's possible it could work somewhere like the Montreal race does even if the following in the country as a whole wasn't any better.

[garyshell]

The idea that IndyCar needs to be more popular for F1 to be more popular is sorry to point out, a ridiculous assertion.

I understand that Versus shows hockey games and the like, but can you please alert me when SpeedTV starts broadcasting non-motorsport programming?

IndyCar is a JOKE. F1 is the premiere racing series ON THE PLANET. IndyCar does not matter. No one is watching. Go to the front page of speedtv.com - see the Formula One tab? Can you please point out where the IndyCar tab is located?

Thanks in advance.

Who said the IRL mattered? All that was said was if F1 is drawing the same sort of numbers on Speed as the IRL is drawing on Versus, then Speed may not have much interest in renewing. You are the only one who thinks that means there is any comparison being made between the IRL and F1.

Gary

[stephenw_us]

Maybe you should try reading the thread?

[stephenw_us]

Define non-motorsport programming. I think there is a lot of programming on Speed that I classify as non-motorsport. e.g. Hours of Barrett-Jackson auctions, and reality shows that are tangentially related to motorsports.

Just my opinion though. It is obviously paying the bills for Speed.

I dunno - how about women's volleyball? (maybe you should join Gary and read the thread together).

[Jag_Warrior]

I don't know, I think Bernie's threats about the British GP have always been just that, just threats. The UK is F1 in reality, it's were the industry is at and so on.

I hope there is a USGP in the future, IMO it's possible it could work somewhere like the Montreal race does even if the following in the country as a whole wasn't any better.

I understand what you mean; at least in the UK, there would be a MASSIVE backlash.

[Jag_Warrior]

Who said the IRL mattered? All that was said was if F1 is drawing the same sort of numbers on Speed as the IRL is drawing on Versus, then Speed may not have much interest in renewing. You are the only one who thinks that means there is any comparison being made between the IRL and F1.

Gary

It's not worth the effort, Gary. It's like talking to a rock. Next week, perhaps we'll hear about a chain of restaurants that specializes in Angus steaks... in India. :dozey:

Join me for a good old cup of Facepalm, won't you?
http://www.livedispatch.org/facepalm.jpg
Made fresh daily in Seattle... :D

[gloomyDAY]

I dunno - how about women's volleyball? (maybe you should join Gary and read the thread together).Quit being a jerk.

[garyshell]

Maybe you should try reading the thread?


I did, and at least I understood what was being said. Sorry you didn't.

Gary

[garyshell]

I dunno - how about women's volleyball? (maybe you should join Gary and read the thread together).


Quit being a jerk.


Well, good luck with that. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Gary

[SGWilko]

Tis the same everywhere, my cross-atlantic brethren!

We had to endure hours of Curling because some Scottish bint who looked like Colin Hendry with breasts (trust me, not an attractive thought) was good at it a few years back.

For those of you not au fait with this thrilling, death-defying and athletically astounding sport, it is basically Crown Bowls on ice. Yet even more dull.

And played by pretty much nobody.

Yet you would think, from the BBC coverage, it was our equivalent of the Superbowl.

If it's the only winter Olympic 'sport' the the Brits are good at (and there aren't many), why not focus on it?

It's a matter of perspective. I hate football - generally because it is played by not particularly intelligent folk who earn obscene amounts of money for running about, spitting, shouting obscenities, banging each others' WAG's, and diving because they can't be bothered to tackle properly, but generally, it is on the box all the time. In fact, some people even pay to watch it....

Tiddlywinks, now that's a game......

[pino]

Back to F1 thank you...

[Ari]

lolz!!11