Customer cars?

[Sonic]

Where does everyone stand on the issue?

A historical part of the sport that should stay right there?

Or

Necessary for the future health of the sport?

[maximilian]

A lot of F1 team histories start with "[insert team name here] began racing in F1 after so-and-so purchased 2 one-year old chassis from March/Shadow/whoever" - and they took it from there. Eventually everyone wants to build their own car, but it's been a legitimate way to enter the sport for decades, and I don't see anything wrong with it. Last year's cars are just standing around - why not put them to some good use? Helps the cost-cutting as well, as a start-up team doesn't have to do everything all at once. I think many of us remember Super Aguri with fondness! :)

As long as these teams are truly independent, I would have no problem with it. If however they are very closely aligned with another top team, sharing almost all the current technology, then we'd possibly run into an issue where the TRUE independent small teams are blocked out by top-team supported customer teams.

That said, I also don't find anything wrong in 1-car teams! Better a solid 1-car effort than a shaky 2-car.

[DazzlaF1]

Why not let these customer cars race, but make them ineligible for championship point, BUT have a separate championship within a championship for customer cars and teams. Then have an agreement in place where these "customer teams" are required to start building their own chassis within 2-3 years.

Thats the only way i can see it working, but i can understand the argument against it seeing that the rules of every team having to build their own car have been in place for nearly 30 years.

[maximilian]

Why not let these customer cars race, but make them ineligible for championship point, BUT have a separate championship within a championship for customer cars and teams. Then have an agreement in place where these "customer teams" are required to start building their own chassis within 2-3 years.

Thats the only way i can see it working, but i can understand the argument against it seeing that the rules of every team having to build their own car have been in place for nearly 30 years.
Honestly I doubt that teams would be interested in entering second tier, and not being eligible... scoring a point or two is the whole motivation for them in the first place, and ties into the distribution of money, etc.

Using last year's equipment makes it hard enough to get near scoring points, I believe... no real need to take that major motivation away from them.

[Sonic]

Perhaps they could score championship points for drivers but not constructors? Maybe an independants cup for customer teams to score "teams" points.

[stephenw_us]

Plenty of periods in the past where there were customer cars.

But my opinion is that requiring every team to build their own cars is now something that differentiates F1 from a lot of other series, and it should stay a requirement going forward.

There is probably ways to share technology cleverly and still maintain the public perception that everyone is building there own car...but I totally disagree with Ferrari, we don't need more Ferrari's on the grid - two is enough. They can sell engines...

I totally disagree with Ferrari, we don't need more Ferrari's on the grid - two is enough. They can sell engines...

Why would anybody want to run an F60?

By last June, Ferrari themselves didn't.

[maximilian]

I think throughout history every customer team started tinkering with components and aerodynamics the moment they get their "bought" cars, and as such, the car slowly becomes more and more of their own making anyways.

I would feel it a fair compromise to say that in your first year of competition you are allowed to buy a car from last season, but by the time you enter your second year, your car should be essentially entirely of your own making. That way, new teams can gradually ease into designing, testing and making the various components of the new car, without the huge shell-shock of having to do it all at once AND be quick on top of that.

[maximilian]

Why would anybody want to run an F60?

By last June, Ferrari themselves didn't.
I think right now at least one new team would kill to be able to run an F60 :D Not to mention any names... :rolleyes:

[Saint Devote]

I like the idea of customers cars but then also a lap time exclusion ought to be returned. I think it should be returned anyway because of the expansion of the grid.

Real mobile chicanes should be made an item of the past.

Problem is that the whole structure of f1 is different now. It works against smaller teams such as Toro Rosso and Williams.

So I would leave it as is.

Rather change more important things such as the testing regime which has become absolutely stupid.

Any driver given the opportunity mid-season would do well to decline because it may well destroy his career. F1 this way has regressed rather than evolved to something better.

[52Paddy]

Plenty of periods in the past where there were customer cars.

But my opinion is that requiring every team to build their own cars is now something that differentiates F1 from a lot of other series, and it should stay a requirement going forward.

I understand where you're coming from. I'd add that F1s current persona lends itself to not accepting customer cars. The FIA would probably think customers cars could ruin the sport's image as a pinnacle. If you have an 'independents cup' or similar, I would feel vibes of a national series (kind of like what they do in touring cars or like the rookie/scholarship classes in Formula 3 etc).

That's not to say I disagree with allowing customer cars. I certainly don't, provided that sharing of technical data between the producer and consumer is capped somewhat. I just don't think the FIA would allow it for, amongst other things, the reason I've outlined in the previous paragraph.

[maximilian]

I can live with a customer car ban, as long as they let in every team that is able to design and build their own team and that has all their stuff together. That would be much more important... idiotic to keep out teams that are able to do this in the first place.

[Sonic]

I think right now at least one new team would kill to be able to run an F60 :D Not to mention any names... :rolleyes:

Ferarri? :D If the rumors of a F10B being on the cards already are true. ;)

Maximilian; Excellent point. If an organisation is capable of designing, constructing and racing an F1 car then they should be given a shot to at least qualify for a GP.

However until the artificial grid limiting rule is abolished I'd be more than happy to see customer cars on the grid.

[RS]

There are teams queueing up to be on the grid at the moment, so I don't see the need for customer cars.

I could live with them using one year old cars from another team for their first year, but not after that. It's not F1 and as somebody else said it could just lead to more 'B teams' from the top manufacturers.

For people interested in the technical side of the sport, repainted customer cars does nothing to improve the show.

[philipbain]

I think customer cars should be allowed in F1, with the proviso that they are a chassis run by thier constructor in a previous season, therefore Toro Rosso for example would have to run a 2009 Red Bull chassis in 2010, but they would be allowed to develop new parts for it and would have to adapt it to any rule changes that happened between seasons, with the exception of increased crash test requirements as adaption for these would be too costly. This I feel would decrease costs for smaller / newer teams whilst sharing the wealth so to speak with small teams getting technology developed by the bigger teams. As for the constructors championship, I think that having to run previous season's equipment is a disadvantage enough, so if a team running a year old car beats a constructor running a brand new car then good on them!

[V12]

For me - customer cars can be a great thing, but shouldn't be allowed in F1.

Because once they are, it's the start of a slippery slope that sees manufacturers/top teams effectively running 4+ car teams.

If it's a case of someone like Dallara or Lola offering up a customer design, or running year old machinery, that might be a bit different, but it's too much of a grey area for me.