What is your future for IndyCar?

[Mark in Oshawa]

This is a simple thread. We seem to do these periodically.

Ok..here we go, I would have a simliar length schedule we do now, maybe with Brazil and Japan if those two events pay their way.

The cars? I would have a pretty open formula but VERY limited downforce, but more of a engine formula that would be pretty open for innovation. Diesels or gas or methanol, I would open that up.

The tricky part would be making it go.... and oh ya...maybe we should go back to the past, and make em front engined.....long and lean like the old roadsters. Lets face it, someone on another thread the days of using the new tech to go faster gets to be a bit much. We aren't going to see 300mph laps, so make the cars really hard and power to drive, take away the aero depencency and let em loose.

[jerryb]

I think the powers that be should have a look at the rules that were in force during the '60s. Whatever those were like, it led to interesting innovation. Allowed rear-engined, the turbines, Mickey Thompson's radical designs, etc.

Think back and like it or not, the public was more aware of Indy, and thus racing in American open wheel.

It was always a case of what new developments were going to manifest themselves at Indy.

How many of us would like to hear the scream of the Novi again?

[Oli_M]

1. I don't think the schedule really is the problem. The series covers a wide enough area and visits a wide range of markets. OK the "month of may" is still farrr too long (I think it should be weekend 1 practise, weekend 2, qualify on friday night and race on sunday)
2. They NEED to attract more money into the series. That means (realistically and simplified) more sponsors. That means they need to appeal to a wider audience.

I don't know what would make it appeal to more people - does the current motorsport fan not watch Indycar because of the lack of manufacturer involvement? Is it the car? Is it the current TV package? Personally, I'd say it NEEDS to be on main network channels in prime time or "typical" sports time slots - Saturday evenings or Sunday afternoons.

[secondplace]

Well forget about new cars, new venues and a 'healthy' car count for this year.

What is needed in IndyCar is the right leaders for the right job. Someone who isn't scared to get the job done. Someone who is able to work behind the scenes with little or no controversy for the next six years.

The car idea should rest with the teams. Maybe the product will be better for the drivers to race and for the spectators to watch. I am not going to talk about front engine vs rear engine, N/A vs turbo, spec cars or larger solution, that should be the teams discussion. The idea of the IRL forcing the idea of the new car specs via some Uni is not the solution. That IMO is not the way to go.

Venues have to be paired down. Last thing needed is the TBA or cancelled events. Happened before in another series and look what happened there. Also, no more roughing up event promoters. Surfers Paradise was a major lesson learned on that and that was just bad business.

Those are my opinions, I doubt they will happen.

But no more looking back, lets start looking forward instead...

[Chaparral66]

Dump the current car and bring back the Panoz Champ Car. It just looks more like a race car, and make it oval friendly.

[Ironcurtainantihero]

This is a simple thread. We seem to do these periodically.

Ok..here we go, I would have a simliar length schedule we do now, maybe with Brazil and Japan if those two events pay their way.

The cars? I would have a pretty open formula but VERY limited downforce, but more of a engine formula that would be pretty open for innovation. Diesels or gas or methanol, I would open that up.

The tricky part would be making it go.... and oh ya...maybe we should go back to the past, and make em front engined.....long and lean like the old roadsters. Lets face it, someone on another thread the days of using the new tech to go faster gets to be a bit much. We aren't going to see 300mph laps, so make the cars really hard and power to drive, take away the aero depencency and let em loose.

Why should the cars be front-engined? Most-if not every- other open-wheel based series has mid-engined cars. I disagree with you on this, but before I say anything, I would like to know why you feel the cars should be front-engined.

[Ironcurtainantihero]

Dump the current car and bring back the Panoz Champ Car. It just looks more like a race car, and make it oval friendly.


Two questions:

1. Why that car?

2. Do you know how much it would cost and if there are any spares, equipment, etc for those cars?

[Ironcurtainantihero]

I think the powers that be should have a look at the rules that were in force during the '60s. Whatever those were like, it led to interesting innovation. Allowed rear-engined, the turbines, Mickey Thompson's radical designs, etc.

Think back and like it or not, the public was more aware of Indy, and thus racing in American open wheel.

It was always a case of what new developments were going to manifest themselves at Indy.

How many of us would like to hear the scream of the Novi again?

I disagree. This isn't the last century, and no matter how much people say they want something like what you believe, we can't put the genie back into that bottle. My personal feeling is to focus on THIS century, not try to play Peabody and Sherman and think "If only we get into the wayback machine and go back to the 60's and 70's, everything will be so much better." That to me is not realistic.

[Ironcurtainantihero]

Here is what I would like to see-I'm not saying it will happen nor will I whine and complain because I don't get what I want like some others do.

A car formula that is relevant to the auto industry and to technology. As well as instituting green elements.

A car that looks like an IndyCar. If the Delta Wing concept works, by all means, but if I had my druthers I would like to see multiple engine companies/chassis. Not people building chassis or engines in their garages, because to me that doesn't serve any real purpose, plus it's the 21st Century, not the 20th Century. Trying to go back to what some consider "the good old days" is unrealistic. To quote Billy Joel: "The good old days weren't always good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." I believe that we need to look forward, not backward and try to recreate something that was, but what can be now.

[Chaparral66]

Two questions:

1. Why that car?

2. Do you know how much it would cost and if there are any spares, equipment, etc for those cars?

IMHO, that is a tested and proven car all ready for road and street courses, and can be made oval ready. It's racier. If Panoz kept the molds, it shouldn't be too expensive to retool and make spare parts, as oppose to starting from scratch which might not be cost effective in the current economic climate. This also might be a way to attract Ford back into it to go against Honda (who has always wanted competition) and get them back together with engne builder Cosworth, at least in a limited partnership.

[NickFalzone]

IMHO, that is a tested and proven car all ready for road and street courses, and can be made oval ready. It's racier. If Panoz kept the molds, it shouldn't be too expensive to retool and make spare parts, as oppose to starting from scratch which might not be cost effective in the current economic climate. This also might be a way to attract Ford back into it to go against Honda (who has always wanted competition) and get them back together with engne builder Cosworth, at least in a limited partnership.

I know that you're not alone in your love of the DP01, but whenever I hear this suggestion I just shake my head. It's a moderate improvement over the current Dallara. Don't we want more than that for the new car? For one thing, yes it looks different, but to the casual fan, it doesn't not look much different at all. Secondly, yes it performs better, but to the casual fan, it does not look like it performs significantly better than the Dallara. I can think of a laundry list of reasons as to why going to the DP would be a dumb idea, now in the 2010 season, and can think of only 1 or 2 reasons why it would be a good idea. Actually the only way I could see it making sense is if the IRL announced that the 2012 car would be indefinitely delayed, to 2013 or beyond, and then I could see an interim DP car being used. But short of that, it really makes zero sense, particularly with the current economic environment that the series is definitely feeling (on top of it's own significant financial problems).

[Chaparral66]

I know that you're not alone in your love of the DP01, but whenever I hear this suggestion I just shake my head. It's a moderate improvement over the current Dallara. Don't we want more than that for the new car? For one thing, yes it looks different, but to the casual fan, it doesn't not look much different at all. Secondly, yes it performs better, but to the casual fan, it does not look like it performs significantly better than the Dallara. I can think of a laundry list of reasons as to why going to the DP would be a dumb idea, now in the 2010 season, and can think of only 1 or 2 reasons why it would be a good idea. Actually the only way I could see it making sense is if the IRL announced that the 2012 car would be indefinitely delayed, to 2013 or beyond, and then I could see an interim DP car being used. But short of that, it really makes zero sense, particularly with the current economic environment that the series is definitely feeling (on top of it's own significant financial problems).

That's my point, I think the IRL shoul hold off on the new car for 3-4 more years. The series needs to save as much as possible, and use the IZOD money to promote. And think there is a big difference between the DP-01 and Dallara. Even IRL advocates acknowledge the Dallara as ugly. Just visually the DP-01 would be an improvement.

[Blancvino]

That's my point, I think the IRL shoul hold off on the new car for 3-4 more years. The series needs to save as much as possible, and use the IZOD money to promote. And think there is a big difference between the DP-01 and Dallara. Even IRL advocates acknowledge the Dallara as ugly. Just visually the DP-01 would be an improvement.

Do you think the IRL has three of four more years on it's current glide path?

I think not. The IRL is damaged goods and has little hope of recovery.

Working against the series:
NASCAR
Economy
Apathy
The sisters
Flawed vision
Flawed execution
Inexperienced management
Self absorbed car owners

I'm afraid the end is a lot closer than it seems. I hope I am wrong. I think the new management is making changes necessary to move forward. It just is to too little, too late, in my view.

[Chris R]

I think post Indy will tell much this season - but I suspect the "glide path" might take a sharp dip after Indy....

The only reason for the sisters to keep going with the IRL is to be sure to have a race for 2011 - but the 100th anniversary might be a good time to change things up and go NASCAR for the 500 too.....

Anyway, I have a really bad feeling about the current state of things and I don't know why...

Anyway, my future would include a formula that has much less downforce and much more driver control. perhaps a shorter schedule and costs that can be borne by sportspeople regardless of sponsorship......

[Mark in Oshawa]

Why should the cars be front-engined? Most-if not every- other open-wheel based series has mid-engined cars. I disagree with you on this, but before I say anything, I would like to know why you feel the cars should be front-engined.

First off, I am not going to lose sleep if they stay rear engined, but I want the cars to CHANGE. Make Indycar unique. Make them stand alone different from any other open wheeled race cars on earth. The engine in the front was the tradition until 1961 when Jack Brabham showed up. But the fact is Indy's top speed is no longer a function of technology, it is a function of rules now. We don't want 300 mph laps at Indy.

The front engined concept was first thrown out there as a wild ass suggestion by Robin Miller I believe and the idea is that that sort of car would two things: ONE, minimize the effect of downforce, and allow cars to run closer to each other without aero push and TWO, allow guys in the Midwest running the sprints and midgets to NOT look to NASCAR. It may sound hypocritical of me when you consider I keep pounding that the US drivers were not kept out of Indy by some cabal of evil men, but the fact is the US drivers are not shooting towards Indy because there was just too much competition from F1 wannabe's and other formula drivers looking for jobs. By changing the formula, it is a wild card that makes this series DIFFERENT.

Maybe not what we think of it now...but DIFFERENT. RADICALLY new. Yet, Traditional. The days of making technology and faster times went away around 1996. The cars are going about as fast as you would want and the show has suffered. My idea I think addresses the aero push and show, and also allows drivers more friendly to the American tastes ( as much as I hate the US jingoism, it seems to be an issue) to gain access to the Indy 500. I think many of the current drivers can adapt, for it is a new idea that NO one really has an idea how it would turn out or how the cars would drive. The only thing stopping it is the safety issue. I don't know if the cars would be as safe....but I like the idea...so the romantic in me has tried to justify it....

[elan 02]

It seems so simple,Let the engineers design more horsepower and more style.
Beauty is the key. We want unbelievable looks,with power!

[Scheckterfan54]

Am I the only one that is crazy enough to be excited about about what is coming for the IRL. I believe we are watching the rebirth of AOWR. While it is true that Randy Bernard has never attended an IRL event, TG had attended every race and did nothing but further run the series into the ground. The PBR has a very aggressive marketing style. Recently in Indy, the PBR staged an event at Conseco Fieldhouse. You could not turn on a newscast without them talking about the rodeo. Once I attended the event, I then found out that this was the minor league of the PBR. If he can market as well for the IRL as his company did for their minor league, it could be a big step in the right direction. Under the former leadership, the series was in a constant patturn of growing and contracting. That didnt work and it is time to go in another direction. For the IRL to grow, they have to find the niche that is successfull and roll with it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Am I the only one that is crazy enough to be excited about about what is coming for the IRL. I believe we are watching the rebirth of AOWR. While it is true that Randy Bernard has never attended an IRL event, TG had attended every race and did nothing but further run the series into the ground. The PBR has a very aggressive marketing style. Recently in Indy, the PBR staged an event at Conseco Fieldhouse. You could not turn on a newscast without them talking about the rodeo. Once I attended the event, I then found out that this was the minor league of the PBR. If he can market as well for the IRL as his company did for their minor league, it could be a big step in the right direction. Under the former leadership, the series was in a constant patturn of growing and contracting. That didnt work and it is time to go in another direction. For the IRL to grow, they have to find the niche that is successfull and roll with it.

Schekterfan, I am like you. I like this guy and I like the fact he put bull riding ( really...if I told you in 95 Bull riding would be getting ratings similar to the IRL on VS and also had events on ESPN when the IRL didnt, you would lock me up) on the map. No one watched Bull riding unless you were in towns that are in the west for Rodeo country. Even there, it is a niche sport. No one walks the streets of Las Vegas or Houston and talked about their favourite bull riders, but the fact is one was on "Dancing with the Stars" Now he happened to be married to Jewel, but you can bet Randy Bernard was pushing Ty to go on there and replace his wife.....

This guy gives me optimism, but until we get through THIS year, I wont say if he can get the ship from hitting the iceberg or not. The old skipper really has the ole girl sailing into dangerous waters, and it is a dicey deal.

[beachbum]

IMHO, most people make suggestions on how to "fix" racing based on their own reasons for watching. If you watch because of the technology, you want the latest technology. If you watch for reasons that got you interested in your youth, you want to roll back the clock and have "nostalgia" racing. If you watch for the personalities, you want more interesting racers. If you watch for patriotic reasons (us vs them), you want more Americans.

Trying to figure out how people chose to spend their entertainment dollar has never been an exact science. Just because 2 options look similar does not mean they draw fans for the same reasons. On the surface, Grand-Am and ALMS look similar - prototypes and GT cars running together on road courses. But I suspect many fans watch each for very different reasons. Grand-Am is relatively low tech, yet often has very forceful wheel to wheel competition. ALMS has high tech, but often one or two cars run off and hide and the one on one competition isn't thrilling.

IHMO, the big issue for all top level open wheel racing in the US is trying to find something to catch the eye of more fans. Series have tried different cars, promoting some personalities, relatively open technology, restricted technology, and yet the only consistent draw has been the ceremony of Indy and the fanfare that surrounds it. It is a singluar "event". Until the series develops a "personality" that draws more everyday people, it will remain a niche sport with one big event, which is pretty much what "Indy car" racing was for most of its history.

An added problem for all motorsports is the need for outside money - lots of it - to survive. The series has to cater to the fans, but also must provide a value for companies to have a reason to pump in more money. In today's economic environment, it is all about the ROI. There was a time the "glamor" of racing was enough for some sponsors, but now they want / need activation and a tangible result. So what does racing provide as a profit motive?

After many years as a fan and some as a participant, I believe that the age of the car has been replaced with the age of the computer. When I was a kid, I wanted a new car and I spent much of my spare time fooling around with machinery. Now many kids want a new gaming computer and spend hours sitting in front of a monitor. How do you get their interest? Move the video game to real life like X games and drifting? Have more crashes like the video games? I certainly don't have an answer, and so far, no one around most racing series seem to have found the "magic bullet" either.

It is a very tough world out there today. The IRL (and other racing series as well) may live or die because of the changing entertainment interests of people and not because they did anything "wrong". Perhaps the best chance for survival is to keep some "glamor" in the sport while keeping costs as low as possible to better match the available funding. Sadly for some of us, that means spec racing, rules that allow equipment to be amortized over many years, and a few headline events like Indy that have enough drawing power to carry lessor support events.

[F1boat]

No manufacturers is big problem IMO. A spec series can't be a top series. In Le Mans you have Audi vs Peugeot, in F1 Mercedes vs McLaren vs Ferrari vs Renault and in IRL you have Dallara vs Dallara. Not so fun.

[px400r]

An added problem for all motorsports is the need for outside money - lots of it - to survive. The series has to cater to the fans, but also must provide a value for companies to have a reason to pump in more money. In today's economic environment, it is all about the ROI. There was a time the "glamor" of racing was enough for some sponsors, but now they want / need activation and a tangible result. So what does racing provide as a profit motive?


I think you got it. Indy Car racing is a business and it has to change it's economics to match today's reality. It simply can't rely on the old model of manufacturers and sanctioning fees. Indy Car has to find new sources of revenue- not just for the series but for the teams as well. I'm not sure where that will be, but they (or someone) better figure it out quickly.

[px400r]

After many years as a fan and some as a participant, I believe that the age of the car has been replaced with the age of the computer. When I was a kid, I wanted a new car and I spent much of my spare time fooling around with machinery. Now many kids want a new gaming computer and spend hours sitting in front of a monitor. How do you get their interest? Move the video game to real life like X games and drifting? Have more crashes like the video games? I certainly don't have an answer, and so far, no one around most racing series seem to have found the "magic bullet" either.


I forgot where I read it- maybe it was Dean McNulty of the Toronto Sun who wrote an article about tie-ins between Indy Car racing and video games. It's definitely worth exploring IMO. For example, Modern Warfare 2 has generated over $1 billion in sales, and approximately $300 million on the first day (combined US and UK). These are dedicated fans of the series, and no doubt the vast majority of MW2 fans will spend their hard earned cash on MW3.

Now imagine an Indy Car video game with online play that allows a player to participate in the actual race in real time. Let's leave out the technical issues for now. You have a new (and captive) audience, who are not only being exposed to the sport (albeit in a virtual way) but to the sponsors as well. And unlike MW and other first person shooting games, gamers can attend an actual event. You won't need Versus- just an Xbox or PS3 and a decent internet connection. Instead of being just a spectator, it opens up the possibility of participating- something that is very limited in the world of motorsport.

IMHO.

[Scheckterfan54]

While the people on this forum are certainly Indycar Fans(or AOWR fans) and probably the base for what is left for the IRL. I certainly hope that the people who will be making decisions will be making decisions that go to a broader audience. To be honest, I dont think a 15yo high school kid in colorado gives a hoot about the manufacturers. There is a need to advertise certain things to certain audiences. Whether it is showing a commercial of crashes during the Xgames, or showing a human intrest story commercial during lifetime shows. While having different manufacturers, chassis, and even tire brands would make the racing more interesting for us, lets face it...We will watch the races no matter what. The IRL needs to broaden their appeal to a more diverse fanbase.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The things I'd do, in no particular order:

The new car would have a higher HP to weight ratio than current; no wings or ground effects; same or harder tires.[/*:m:2ryrt68z]
Open up chassis to anyone who can pass the safety specs.[/*:m:2ryrt68z]
The engine formula I'm open on, 4,6,8 (or combination) makes no difference to me, just better ratio as above. More open to participation by various suppliers.[/*:m:2ryrt68z]
Costs of the two above to be no greater than now.[/*:m:2ryrt68z]
Fuel - I'm open to most anything but gasoline. (Safety and not the future direction of transportation) A trend toward something more "eco" might be nice.[/*:m:2ryrt68z]
Tracks - dump the cookie cutter short & medium ovals. Work like heck to get Fontana, Michigan or even Pocono (if the track has been upgraded enough lately) back on the schedule. Get RA back. Get Milwauke back. Street circuits are nice if there's only a few. Dump Infinion - with a lower down force & higher HP car, tracks like MidO and Laguna could be challenging again instead of a snooze.[/*:m:2ryrt68z]
Last put very much not least Promote, Promote, Promote.[/*:m:2ryrt68z]


This isn't shameless Sucking up. I just agree with you on all those points.

Well said....

[V12]

The things I'd do, in no particular order:

The new car would have a higher HP to weight ratio than current; no wings or ground effects; same or harder tires.[/*:m:1uvpn4iu]
Open up chassis to anyone who can pass the safety specs.[/*:m:1uvpn4iu]
The engine formula I'm open on, 4,6,8 (or combination) makes no difference to me, just better ratio as above. More open to participation by various suppliers.[/*:m:1uvpn4iu]
Costs of the two above to be no greater than now.[/*:m:1uvpn4iu]
Fuel - I'm open to most anything but gasoline. (Safety and not the future direction of transportation) A trend toward something more "eco" might be nice.[/*:m:1uvpn4iu]
Tracks - dump the cookie cutter short & medium ovals. Work like heck to get Fontana, Michigan or even Pocono (if the track has been upgraded enough lately) back on the schedule. Get RA back. Get Milwauke back. Street circuits are nice if there's only a few. Dump Infinion - with a lower down force & higher HP car, tracks like MidO and Laguna could be challenging again instead of a snooze.[/*:m:1uvpn4iu]
Last put very much not least Promote, Promote, Promote.[/*:m:1uvpn4iu]

Thirded.

I do sort of agree with those about it being a new century and the "good old days" not coming back, but to me open technical competition is a must. Yes there needs to be rules within which people must work, but everyone running the exact same equipment is no good for anyone. The old "everyone runs the same car and it's all about driver skill" thing was a nice fad in the early 90s but now pretty much everyone bar F1 (well, sort of), F3 (the Dallara monopoly there is by choice, not mandatory) and Le Mans does it, if you exclude the various production-based series (GT, touring cars) as I'm talking about contests for purpose built racing cars.

This isn't rose-tinted glasses wearing nostalgia, it's just how it needs to be. It's called motor sport, to me sport means competition, i.e. competition between "motors" (cars), as well as drivers.

[anthonyvop]

The things I'd do, in no particular order:

The new car would have a higher HP to weight ratio than current; no wings or ground effects; same or harder tires.[/*:m:5ktn95go]

We have that already. It is called Sprint Cars..........And we all know how popular they are.

[Mark in Oshawa]

We have that already. It is called Sprint Cars..........And we all know how popular they are.

In many ways, more popular than Champ Car....

[nigelred5]

One of the issues with manufacturer involvement is any form of open wheel racing is it's limited relevance to real world automobiles. The only reason they have ever had to be involved was as a testbed, a showcase for new technologies or as a competioion between brands. A spec series provides none of that and even NASCAR is hearing that loud and clear from manufacturers. They aren't even very good rolling billboards for sponsors like a stock car.

[BrentJackson]

I'm in the same boat as Starter is. I happen to agree that new cars are needed, for a number of different reasons. The current cars are ugly, aged and have too little power and too much grip for my liking. Now, that works great at places like Indianapolis and the bigger ovals, because you get wheel to wheel racing for many miles on end. Tense, suspensful? You bet. (And IMO, that is a good thing in this case.) But I think it would be better to give the cars more power and less grip, and design them so that they do not bite your head off if you step over the line. Getting on the power too early at a road course should cause you spin or run off. That and you have the fact that the cars are too pricey.

Chassis - we want the best in safety, of course, so CF driver cells stay a must. Beyond that, however, I think in the interests of cutting costs AND making it easier for the teams to maintain, repair and modify their cars, the series should shift to aluminum chassis parts, fiberglass or FRP bodywork and engine bays, meaning the engines are not stressed members. This would make repair easier, and allow teams to do their own bodywork and chassis modifications if they so desire.

Now, somebody will point out that such an arrangement will allow the Penske "Unfair Advantage" to rear its head leading to that crafty bugger blitzing the field at Indy in 1994. You beat that by using a claiming rule - by that I mean any part a team develops by themselves must be documented, and if other teams want to make them, the developing team MUST hand over the documentation and drawings of the parts for other teams to make if they wish. Failure to do so means the parts are excluded and any results gained from them are disqualified, along with any points earned. This goes for all teams, parts makers, engine builders and manufacturers in the series - everybody.

The cars will have 50% less downforce than now, and use smaller tunnels and wings to achieve that. Flat-bottoms are not a real good idea at big oval speeds, because if any air lifts the car up that guy is toast. Different wings will be used on oval and road courses, of course. The cars use front tires that are a similar size to now, but considerably bigger rear tires. Anti-lock brakes and paddle-shifted sequential gearboxes are allowed, traction and stability control are not allowed. All cars must have six or seven forward gears and one reverse, and all cars will be fitted with batteries and starter motors, to enable a driver who had stalled to fire up the engine on his own and get back in the race.

All cars will be outfitted with numerous cameras - two in mirrors, two on the rear wing, one in the nose and one over the driver's head, at least. These cameras will allow video feeds back to the teams, to the driver via video screens on the dashboard, as well as all feeds being fed to the central TV control station. (This gives people watching the race and people producing it dozens of different angles to work from. Perhaps a pay-TV service with people being able to access all of the cars' telemetry and video feeds could be on the cards, too.) Cars can be fitted if the teams wish with helmet-mounted video screens, like what are used on many fighter jets, to allow the driver to always see what his instruments are saying.

Engines - These cars need MORE POWER. They certainly aren't slow now, but running on rails isn't are interesting as watching somebody have to actually get up and drive the thing. Then we have the problem of how much the engines cost. I'd be setting up a stock-block formula alongside the pure race engines, and allowing more boost and revs out of the stock-blockers. NA stock blocks are limited 450 cubic inches displacement, NA race engines are limited to 300 cubic inches displacement, turbocharged stock blocks are also limited to 300 cubic inches, turbocharged racing engines are limited to 200 cubic inches. Bigger-displacement turbos are allowed less boost and revs. Race engines get more revs than the stock blocks. All of the equivalencies are to be worked out by the series and adjusted periodically to keep things relatively in line - a big-inch big block will make more low RPM torque but run out of breath at higher revs, which means the big-inch car will get better acceleration out of slower corners but run out at high speeds, and must be set up to compensate for it.

Stock blocks in this case are actual stock blocks. They must be a unit from a road car, otherwise they go into the race engine category, and it is up to the teams to prove its a unit from a road car. Any number of cylinders are allowed for any engine, and whatever turbo system they want as long as it does not go over the boost limits.

All engines will run on E85 ethanol fuel, straight from any local gas station, no special race blends or anything like that. Diesel-engined cars are also allowed, with their own formula. Gasoline is NOT permitted.

Schedule - Keeping all kinds of tracks is important, from the biggest ovals to the street circuits. IMO, we need to cut ISC out of the equation as much as possible - personally, I'd say keep Richmond and Michigan and dump all of their other venues. SMI has been more accommodating to us - and as such, Texas, Las Vegas, New Hampshire, Kentucky and Infineon are on the schedule. Independent ovals such as Milwaukee, Nashville and Iowa should also get preference. Chicagoland also stays on. Once ISC figures out that trying to kill Indycar racing has no benefit for them, call back Fontana and Kansas City.

Street circuits get a few members. Long Beach, Toronto and St. Petersburg are the obvious ones, and once the Olympics are over I'd try to get Vancouver back as well. Cleveland and Edmonton deserve spots, too, if we are talking temporary circuits. Detroit was never at that good, ditch it. (Though for the newer cars, the old Renaissance Center circuit might be an interesting challenge.) My heart says try to get Surfers Paradise back, but after the runaround the IRL gave them and then getting outright shafted by A1GP, I doubt they'll bother with anything but the V8s for a long time to come, unfortunately. (Though if they want us back and will pay for it, by all means do it.) Honda will undoubtedly demand Motegi or Suzuka, and that's fine if they are in the series. If a South Korean maker wants to jump in and wants a race there, do that too. (No jokes about the mythical race in Korea, guys, I'm serious.) If Brazil or Britain or Germany or Mexico is willing to pay the costs, by all means consider the ideas. Limit the foreign excursions - big money to do that - but for tracks that can be reached by the rigs, IMO more races are better than fewer. Manpower is the largest cost for teams and you have to pay those guys all year anyways, why not run more rounds and increase the ROI by doing so? IMO, I'd aim for a 23-25 round schedule, running right from early February to mid-late October, with gaps kept to a minimum.

Road America, Road Atlanta, Barber Park, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio and Miller Park should be assured spots. Watkins Glen, too, if ISC is willing to play along. Montreal probably won't happen with NASCAR there, so go to Mont-Tremblant instead. Further down the road, look for potential races in Hawaii, New York and maybe even Alaska.

Marketing - Indycar does not have the benefit of being popular enough or prestigious enough to be a haughty series, so you instead want to make going to a race an experience that lasts all day or all weekend, and have the series be very fan friendly. This works very nicely for the ALMS and Grand-Am, and I know from experience in both cases that being able to cruise around and see everything, and perhaps meet a few of the big shots, makes a big difference in how people perceive the series. I know of fans who got hooked for life by one chance incident in the paddock at a race in both the ALMS and Grand-Am. The Fans should be above all else the focus on a race weekend for the organizers. If they didn't go away having thoroughly enjoyed themselves, you didn't do your job well enough.

[Scotty G.]

We have that already. It is called Sprint Cars..........And we all know how popular they are.


They sold out a week's worth of races (in a 15,000 seat venue) in Tulsa, OK a few weeks ago. No "freebies" or street race partiers in the crowd either. Actual race fans.

Indy Car is envious. :p

[Mark in Oshawa]

Brent, I like where you were going, but the carbon fibre bits have to stay around the driver. I would advocate an engineered safety cell to be the center piece of the car, and a company manufacture all the cells that teams could engineer the car round. Not sure if that idea is doable, but safety cannot go backward.

Oh ya...you said Alaska? No....weather wise and Population wise it wouldnt work, not to mention the long slog up the Alaska Highway and all that gravel.

Other than those two nits to pick, I pretty much like your ideas...

[anthonyvop]

They sold out a week's worth of races (in a 15,000 seat venue) in Tulsa, OK a few weeks ago. No "freebies" or street race partiers in the crowd either. Actual race fans.

Indy Car is envious. :p

Oh yea....I saw that on Network TV.......No, wait..it was on a Cable channel....No, that's right I saw it on the web,,,,,,oh....right.....Nobody saw it except the people who went to the race in Tulsa....and we all know the battle for the entertainment dollar in Tulsa is cutthroat.

I know some of you will find it hard to accept but sprints, midgets, WoO and such are a niche sport.

As for your street race "partiers" not being race fans.....I'll take street race partiers and their buying power over the sprint car fans anyday.

[nigelred5]

There are standard safety cells available for boat racing. They could spec a common tub, and allow everything else more open development.

[call_me_andrew]

Here's the future: either the series will go bankrupt or it'll grow steadily for the next 20 years.

But while we're all making crazy predictions, I thought I'd have a go.

1. IICS becomes a semi-winter series that starts in May and ends in January/February.

2. No more carbon fiber, anywhere. Every part on the car will either be steel, aluminum, plastic, rubber, or copper.

3. Make the cars weigh 2,000 pounds.

4. No more yellow or red flags, either we're racing or we're not!

5. Drivers will be replaced with sexy robots.

[Scotty G.]

1. Oh yea....I saw that on Network TV.......No, wait..it was on a Cable channel....No, that's right I saw it on the web,,,,,,oh....right.....Nobody saw it except the people who went to the race in Tulsa....and we all know the battle for the entertainment dollar in Tulsa is cutthroat.

2. As for your street race "partiers" not being race fans.....I'll take street race partiers and their buying power over the sprint car fans anyday.


1. So what? The FACTS are, that this particular event SELLS OUT its venue for 5 consecutive nights, to actual RACE FANS. They aren't there to see pretty women. Or to play volleyball. Or be "seen". I know its a foreign concept (no pun intended), but some of these people actually show up to watch their favorite driver (!) And your "dig" at Tulsa, shows the Indy Car/F1 elitism that many people find unappealing. There are a hell of a lot more people to be "entertained" in Tulsa then there are in Watkins Glen, NY or Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin.

And BTW, nobody watches Indy Car Racing on TV either. In fact, some folks can't watch it even if they wanted to (either have Direct TV or don't get Versus on their cable service).

2. More "elitism". I'll take the actual race fans, EVERY day of the week. They might actually watch another race in the calander year. Might even know who the hell is racing in the actual race. The actual race fan, is also much more likely to BUY merchandise and buy tickets to other races, then the "girl watchers" that party it up at Long Beach or St. Pete every year. And a lot of them, aren't poor rubes either that just fell off the turnip truck. Going to races and driving to races isn't cheap. ;)

[Scotty G.]

No more yellow or red flags, either we're racing or we're not!




Damn straight.

Will bring more skill into it, having to maneuver through crash-sites and avoid carbon fiber. :)

[garyshell]

As for your street race "partiers" not being race fans.....I'll take street race partiers and their buying power over the sprint car fans anyday.

Got any REAL numbers to back that up or is it just more of the speculation we have come to expect?

Gary

[anthonyvop]

Got any REAL numbers to back that up or is it just more of the speculation we have come to expect?

Gary

I have lots of real numbers to back it up. Not for your or the public's consumption though. They are proprietary and valuable.

Of course a quick google search on your part would discover I am right.

[garyshell]

I have lots of real numbers to back it up. Not for your or the public's consumption though. They are proprietary and valuable.

Of course a quick google search on your part would discover I am right.


In other words, no.

Gary

[djparky]

hmmmm
1- dust off the old CART chassis from 98-99 and the turbo engines from the same era
2- bring back Road America & Cleveland
3- strong leadership (that would be a first)
4- not a single spec chassis/ engine formula
5- whatever chassis- it produces good racing on all circuits

or rewind to 1994 and stop the formation of the IRLI dunno- I watch IndyCar because in many ways it's very like the series I loved back in the 90's (ie CART)- it's just not quite the same though- maybe it's the ugly cars, or maybe because it's the IRL and all the baggage that brings with itat this rate IndyCar will be a one race series and not alot else- but that hasn't harmed Le Mans has it?

[anthonyvop]

In other words, no.

Gary

If that is what you want to believe......More power to ya.

[garyshell]

If that is what you want to believe......More power to ya.


You're the one who made the unsubstantiated claim. If you don't want to provide the data, at least provide a link.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

You're the one who made the unsubstantiated claim. If you don't want to provide the data, at least provide a link.

Gary
No...Actually it is you who has to refute my claim....but you can't...can you?

[garyshell]

No...Actually it is you who has to refute my claim....but you can't...can you?


This has to be the single most laughable post I have ever seen here. And coming from a "reporter" it is even more hilarious.

Gary

[Easy Drifter]

Well you can pretty well write off any casual fan support in Canada. I probably won't even bother much.
All but 6 races are to be shown on TSN2 which most Cdns. cannot be bothered with. That includes me. If I could just add TSN2 and pay a little more maybe. But I can't. I have to take an additional package of stations I do not want.
Even the Toronto race is on TSN2 not TSN.
The majority of Cdn. cable and satellite subscribers get TSN.

[FIAT1]

Future for indycar ? R.I.P

[Alfa Fan]

No...Actually it is you who has to refute my claim....but you can't...can you?

The burden of proof is on the prosecution (you) not the defendant.

[anthonyvop]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution (you) not the defendant.

Wanna rte-think that?

I made a statement that is plainly obvious. He doesn't want to believe it. It is up to him to refute it.

[FormerFF]

First off, the costs have to be more proportional to the sponsorship value of an Indycar. I've heard the figure of $8 million a year to field a competitive car, and the sponsorship value of a season of Indycar is not worth that much. Indycar has to figure out a way to get that down to $3 million or so. How to do this isn't obvious, but if Indycar wishes to continue, it better find out.

There are a couple of diffrent ways to have compelling racing. On a road course, the best way to do so is to have cars that have nearly equal lap times but that do so by a different combination of strengths and weaknesses. Maybe one car has a particularly strong midrange, while another has superior top speed, and a third has more low speed grip. That way, passing is possible. If all the cars have identical performance, no passing will occur unless someone makes a mistake.

On the oval side of things, it seems that the most common way to have good racing is to make sure that drafting can occur. If you have a car that has a lot of aero push, then you're going to get a parade. Another way is for the car to change throughout a fuel load or have the tires lose their grip. Tires tend to be very consistent now, especially on the relatively light Indycar.

I don't think that Indycar is alone in its difficulty in securing sponsorship. Look at both the PGA and LPGA and the difficulty they've had in maintaining their schedules. I don't think the marketplace for sports sponsorship is what it was 10 or 15 years ago.

[Mark in Oshawa]

AS per usual Tony, you come up with an assumption and then have no proof other than saying "you have proprietary info" and then in the next breath telling him to Google it.

Here is what I do know: When the Molson Indy was still CART/CCWS, it was averaging 60 to 70k a day over the weekend with an average ticket price for a Weekend pass upwards of 175 dollars. I don't think that anyone paid 175 to go to the Chili Bowl. That said, last year's Toronto race didn't draw nearly that much...because the IRL is wounded, but I do think there is a lot more potential in getting the series back to being something people want to see.

Were the folks in Toronto real race fans? Most of them sorta...but those are the people that keep racing from going broke. The 15000 at the Chili Bowl are the hardcore fans. The 60 to 70k that showed up in Toronto were spending more, maybe more casual, but were also watching it on network TV.....Now they watch NASCAR....because no one in NASCAR cares if they were white collar or blue collar, but they do take their money.

The problem with the fans on this board and the idiots who ran this sport in to the ground is no one CARES where you are from or how much you love the sport. All they care about is the racing good, and can they afford it if it is close, and can they watch it on TV. Since 1995, the price has gone up, the quality of entertainment has evaporated, and the TV is now on fringe channels many don't want to pay for. Meanwhile, Scotty the "I love American drivers who were SCREWED by the owners" Fan claims 15000 peole in a Tulsa arena are the future, while Tony thinks he has all the answers while providing no evidence.

It aint a bloody wonder people are running from this sport with attitudes like this.....

[Mark in Oshawa]

First off, the costs have to be more proportional to the sponsorship value of an Indycar. I've heard the figure of $8 million a year to field a competitive car, and the sponsorship value of a season of Indycar is not worth that much. Indycar has to figure out a way to get that down to $3 million or so. How to do this isn't obvious, but if Indycar wishes to continue, it better find out.

There are a couple of diffrent ways to have compelling racing. On a road course, the best way to do so is to have cars that have nearly equal lap times but that do so by a different combination of strengths and weaknesses. Maybe one car has a particularly strong midrange, while another has superior top speed, and a third has more low speed grip. That way, passing is possible. If all the cars have identical performance, no passing will occur unless someone makes a mistake.

On the oval side of things, it seems that the most common way to have good racing is to make sure that drafting can occur. If you have a car that has a lot of aero push, then you're going to get a parade. Another way is for the car to change throughout a fuel load or have the tires lose their grip. Tires tend to be very consistent now, especially on the relatively light Indycar.

I don't think that Indycar is alone in its difficulty in securing sponsorship. Look at both the PGA and LPGA and the difficulty they've had in maintaining their schedules. I don't think the marketplace for sports sponsorship is what it was 10 or 15 years ago.

The only thing I quibble with is the cost of a season being reduced to 3 million. Either this sport is major league or it is a poor cousin of it. You take the budget down to 3 million for a top team in this sport, you lose guys like Roger and Chip because they want competition and they have the money to spend. Furthermore, in a 16 or 18 race season, you would be hard pressed to have a professional team. Engineers, top pit guys, full time employee's, transporters, airline tickets, accomodations and spares all cost a lot of money and I think at 3 million, you would be two hard crashes from being shut down for the year.