Vision closed.

[jwhite9185]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81108

So i guess now TG has nothing to do with anything.

[Giuseppe F1]

maybe Tony's closing up all his Indy obligations because he is after a Team Principal role at USF1 Team? :)

[Jag_Warrior]

I came. I saw. I destroyed.

Now, I'm outta here!

BTW, this is Nero, not Julius. ;)
http://www.livius.org/a/1/emperors/nero_mus_munchen.JPG

[Chris R]

well, much like many people in america these days he is probably broke....

overall, good riddance - but I cannot help but think that this is not a good omen at all.....

we have TG stepping away for his near obsession, Newman-Haas not being able to find sponsorship, we have a dubious (in terms of my feelings that is will really happen) season opener in Brazil - this just seems like the meltdown of CCWS all over again.....

[methanolHuffer]

I have a nephew that can come visit my house and break everything in sight much faster than TG can break his family's stuff.

[Scotty G.]

this just seems like the meltdown of CCWS all over again.....

Yup.

The warning signs are ALL there.

Of course, why should anyone be that surprised? The same morons who ran CART/Champ Car into the ground have now joined the morons that ran the IRL into the ground.

That's a big bundle of losers, for you.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yup.

The warning signs are ALL there.

Of course, why should anyone be that surprised? The same morons who ran CART/Champ Car into the ground have now joined the morons that ran the IRL into the ground.

That's a big bundle of losers, for you.
Yes...Tony had NOTHING to do with it...of course. Scott...there is a river called "De NILE" and you are floating on it....

You have of course your opinion, but very few people in the sport share yours trust me....

Oh yes..if they are such losers, why did you come on here all full of energy and love for the IRL and Tony if ONLY they would just listen to you?

[methanolHuffer]

Yup.

The warning signs are ALL there.

Of course, why should anyone be that surprised? The same morons who ran CART/Champ Car into the ground have now joined the morons that ran the IRL into the ground.

That's a big bundle of losers, for you.

That's too much. Really. I can't believe you could love him that much to say that.

[Mark in Oshawa]

That's too much. Really. I can't believe you could love him that much to say that.
Meth...I don't know where he came from, but he has a HUGE blindspot in his view of the last 16 years...

[Jag_Warrior]

Meth...I don't know where he came from, but he has a HUGE blindspot in his view of the last 16 years...

Just going by many of his posts so far, I'd say he's part of that old time religion/ovals only crowd. If CART had just raced on ovals, restricted foreigners with funny names and kept Chevy and Ford on the valve covers, everything would be fine now. :rolleyes:

But now, we are where we are. It is what it is. Just my opinion, but I think for there to be any real positive changes, some outside investor group is going to have to see something that I can't see, come in, restructure this ruptured duck from top to bottom and try to regain the racing public's attention again. And I do not believe there is a magic bullet which will rebuild the sport, just like I don't believe it was any one thing that sunk it.

Tony George losing his team just turns the final page on the worst chapter in AOWR in my lifetime. He's gone now. But the damage is already done. On his way out the door, I just wonder if Tony exclaimed, "Oh what an artist the world loses in me!" I have a replica Roman dagger, if he really wanted to do this right. It's sharp too! :dozey:

[Easy Drifter]

Showing my age yet again.
Scotty reminds me of the late Frankie Del Roy of USAC, who I knew and dealt with.
Since Sotty is older than me he probably also at least knew of Frankie.

[nigelred5]

Meth...I don't know where he came from, but he has a HUGE blindspot in his view of the last 16 years...

Well, let's see....who been banned in the past few months? :hmm:

[Scotty G.]

Just going by many of his posts so far, I'd say he's part of that old time religion/ovals only crowd. If CART had just raced on ovals, restricted foreigners with funny names and kept Chevy and Ford on the valve covers, everything would be fine now. :rolleyes:




Maybe the sport wouldn't be dead if this had actually happened. ;)

America has taken a look at the way Indy Car has been run/packaged for the past 20 years and collectively turned the channel (if they actually get the network Indy Car is now on for 80% of the year). :p :

CART failed (unless you count going bankrupt as "succeeding" as a company. Remember, the Indy 500 was NEVER part of the CART series and without that race and engine manufacturers who funded many of the teams to prop them up every year, was basically nothing). Champ Car failed. The original IRL failed. Indy Car/CART II is in the process of failing.

I really wish this wasn't the case. But facts are facts.

Indy and the Indy 500 have had 100 years of racing at its facility. It has survived world wars, family squabbles, money troubles, ownership troubles and controversy before. The next few years might be the biggest test of them all.

[methanolHuffer]

The spirit of the sport itself came second to the grandson. First came the powerlust to be see himself as the next France or Ecclestone - he really thought he could do it. He felt entitled to it. He even said his series was going to be bigger than F1.

Now while critics figured that a series ran by commitee would never get anywhere, while a corporation needs a figurehead of dictator-like descision making.
I guess it only needs the right figurehead or something.

[nigelred5]

Indy needs a figurehead that people both fear and respect.

Most felt neither for the grandson.

[Jag_Warrior]

Maybe the sport wouldn't be dead if this had actually happened. ;)

Now tell me that wasn't a good setup for you!

If the Borscht Belt ever makes a comeback, we should do a couple of shows a week.

I take my wife everywhere... but she keeps finding her way back!

[DBell]

Well, let's see....who been banned in the past few months? :hmm:

I'm thinking it may the moderator cleanupcrew from TF. I've seen it written what cleanupcrew's real name is and Scotty G fits that perfectly. But perhaps not, just a guess.

[Chris R]

Scotty, I agree with most of that last post except the notion that CART was a failure in and of itself. Obviously, there is no way to tell for sure, but I do not think CART was destined to fail until the split. The product was actually doing reasonably ell in 1994 but once the split came along both CART and the IRL were doomed to failure - you cannot split a niche market like that and expect it to survive let alone prosper....

That being said, the world has changed in many ways and auto racing does not present the advertising opportunity it once did so, in that sense the commercial model for AOWR was bound to fail - but really through no "fault" of anybody in particular... I am not sure that it mattered is CART, USAC, AAA, IRL, CCWS or anybody else was running AOWR in the past 30 years I think we would be facing much the same basic issues....

I am frankly amazed that the folks who fund NASCAR and F1 have not caught on that it is a terrible use of advertising dollars. I think it is only a matter of time before they have the same basic problem....

[Lee Roy]

I am frankly amazed that the folks who fund NASCAR and F1 have not caught on that it is a terrible use of advertising dollars. I think it is only a matter of time before they have the same basic problem....

Maybe the people in the advertising business, you know, the folks who make hundreds of thousands of dollars and make multimillion dollar deals, apparently don't have the insight that you do.

[Chris R]

Maybe the people in the advertising business, you know, the folks who make hundreds of thousands of dollars and make multimillion dollar deals, apparently don't have the insight that you do.

Perhaps, I am certainly no expert and do not mean to sounds quite as haughty as I probably have....

However, how many "experts" who were making millions of dollars were completely wrong about the state of the economy and their business practices only 6 months before the meltdown????

The CART teams owners made millions on the IPO and look what it got them....

Basically, while NASCAR has been much more successful than AOWR, it is still the same basic sport with the same basic strengths and weaknesses... Anyway you cut it, funding a racing team makes for a relatively expensive advertising platform and every day there are more and more advertising opportunities created by information technology....

The world is changing.... NASCAR cannot think it is immune to the same fate that has befell AOWR (I am not talking about the split - only the loss in revenue etc...)

[SarahFan]

"He told me he started (the IRL in 1996), and he's not done building it and taking it where it needs to go," said Brown, who spent last week skiing with George and former Champ Car World Series co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven in Austria. "I do think Tony has full intentions of coming back in some form in this series."---Zak Brown

[cobre]

Chris , i agree with most of your post. cart had a viable product and was growing after the first split in79 ,i don't think the indy 500 could have said the same without cart's participation from 79 to the second split in96-97. after that the niche' was cut in half and both sides were doomed.only hulman george money kept the irl going .and that seems to be running dry , i can only hope long time indy car sponsor menards moves to another team instead of leaving the sport.!

[nigelred5]

i can only hope long time indy car sponsor menards moves to another team instead of leaving the sport.!

He already has. John Menard has been sponsoring his son with Glidden's Money in various NASCAR teams for years now, or at least that's the way the funding from the Menards stores has been explained to me. The Menards money that has been spent in the IRL over the past couple of seasons is a pittance from what I've seen.

If he was really still into Indy, he'd still be running a team.

[champcarray]

Thanks for posting that quote, Ken. I paused after reading Zak Brown's statement that "Tony has full intentions of coming back in some form in this series." My personal hope is that his involvement will be insignificant...

[MDS]

He already has. John Menard has been sponsoring his son with Glidden's Money in various NASCAR teams for years now, or at least that's the way the funding from the Menards stores has been explained to me.

As I understand its similar to Target's deal, and the sponsors on the hood pay a lot of the freight, so Glidden, Johns Manville, Quaker State, Energizer and more all pay a good portion of the cost.

[SarahFan]

Thanks for posting that quote, Ken. I paused after reading Zak Brown's statement that "Tony has full intentions of coming back in some form in this series." My personal hope is that his involvement will be insignificant...

I'm posting from my phone so I can't post a link..... But it's from cabins article yesterday

what's interesting is that when you read the article and the quote in context it sounds as if ZAk was skiing with Tony and Kevin.... Interesting trio

[methanolHuffer]

If you know Zak, You'd know he's a fugazi.

I wouldn't worry one way or another of a word he says.

[Lee Roy]

Doesn't look like Mr. George is interested.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100129/SPORTS0107/100129027/Not-interested-in-buying-IRL-George-says

[Jag_Warrior]

He might scrape together another team at some point. But without access to IMS's piggy bank, he's

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7757/stickaforkinitgh0.jpg

[Mark in Oshawa]

CART failed (unless you count going bankrupt as "succeeding" as a company. Remember, the Indy 500 was NEVER part of the CART series and without that race and engine manufacturers who funded many of the teams to prop them up every year, was basically nothing). Champ Car failed. The original IRL failed. Indy Car/CART II is in the process of failing.

I really wish this wasn't the case. But facts are facts.

Indy and the Indy 500 have had 100 years of racing at its facility. It has survived world wars, family squabbles, money troubles, ownership troubles and controversy before. The next few years might be the biggest test of them all.

CART failed because they had to fight a war with the same fans with an entity that was spending money like water for less and less fans, with 20 car fields on both sides. Eventually, everyone got tired of it all. Again Scotty, admit that the IRL's founding purpose was brain dead, and if Tony really had the best interest of the sport in mind, he should have worked from within the CART power structure.

Killing Vision is just an admission his part that he isn't content to be a bit player in a game he wants to run. It was ALWAYS all or nothing with this man.

CART had some braindead management, but right up to about the year 2000 they seemed to at least have some measure of proficiency and what killed them was fighting for half of the market. You cannot take a series that is making money, create another competitor just like it, push millions down the toilet to keep the second entity alive, and expect either to really thrive. Factor in CART trying to attract car sponsors without the Indy 500 and the game is over.

So for you to keep spreading this belief that CART was doomed is utter nonsense. WE can never know for sure what would have happened if Tony had been content to just look after the 500, but his power grab has all but destroyed THAT for me, a hard core fan of the 500. I don't care what really happens much except on race day. Bubble day used to be more fun than some races, and he killed that. He killed the creativity and he killed fan interest. So again, stop the hero worship and mitigating the result of what he did....

Hi,

Yes! I agree.


Regards,
Dodge Steering (http://www.carsteering.com/dodge_steering.htm)

[bennybigb]

I'm hearing the Vision Racing letter campaign is going really well and Menards may reconsider their involvement in the sport!

If the Menards sponsorship falls short of the required budget for a full season, I think we will probably see Ed Carpenter run a 3rd car for Chip Ganassi on the ovals.

Ed Carpenter deserves to be in this series and he is damn good oval racer, don't be suprised if he wins a race or two this year!