Sabates: NASCAR's got too many races, TV shows

[Jonesi]

http://www.thatsracin.com/140/story/25108.html

[Mark in Oshawa]

AS per Usual, Felix has some good points..but it aint going to be popular, and his comments about Michigan will I am sure make him persona non grata at MIS. AS they would at Pocono....

[stephenw_us]

Well he's right - NASCAR is over saturated.

Daytona 500 should not be the first race, it should be held mid to late season - they should only go to the really special tracks twice like Bristol, Atlanta, Richmond, Martinsville...plus the warm weather tracks like Phoenix, Homestead, Texas, Fontana, Las Vegas (early season, late season), and they should add two more road courses, how about Sebring and Road Atlanta...or Cup should run Montreal in mid summer...

We don't need 4 restrictor plate races. We only need to run Talledega and Daytona once each. The point system needs to be simplified and easier to understand, we don't need the chase, and the COT needs a lower COG, a bit more tire width, and the overall height of the car lowered...

28 races would be just about right...

[call_me_andrew]

If you reduce the number of plate races, people will bet for the last two to go so teams don't have to spend millions on plate engines.

I would agree that the midwest is the most oversaturated. Michigan, Chicagoland, and Indy have a combined 4 races and are very close to each other. The plains only have KC and Texas. The Gulf Coast only has Talladega, and Talladega is very close to Atlanta. And the whole north west is wide open.

Pocono is the closest track to NYC so those races are pretty important.

The point system is already very simple. The only way to simplify it more would be to go the ARCA route and give the winner 200 and subtract 5 from everyone else, but that deemphasizes passes at the front versus passes at the back.

If it were up to me, I'd take races from Michigan and Charlotte. To help compensate for Charlotte's loss, I would move the All Star race to later in the season.

[Lee Roy]

So. How are you goning to explain to all the people who enjoy going to these races that you want to cancel them?

[call_me_andrew]

So. How are you goning to explain to all the people who enjoy going to these races that you want to cancel them?

We're only talking about taking races away from tracks that have multiple dates. It's not like we're trying to abandon these tracks entirely.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Andrew, Felix would dump Michigan and Pocono altogether.

I dislike the 2 races per year at the same track model but I get they do that to make money. Maybe a track doesn't make it or expand as fast with a single date. Personally tho, it is an albatross around NASCAR's neck. It stops them from spreading out to new markets.

The fact is, they are needing a date in the PacWest, if only they could get the venue. Portland Intl. Raceway is only feasible if NASCAR wants another road course, and I know they likely don't or they would have been there already.

They use Pocono for the NYC market but realistically, it isn't a loved venue as Felix attests, and as it was said, they are WAY oversaturated in the Midwest. It is why Kentucky cant get on the Sprint Cup Sched.

I don't know, but if you took one Michigan and Pocono out, remove a race from Dover perhaps, it would only be a good idea if where you put those dates was a new market and untested because you will feel the heat from fans in those regions. Enough heat they stop going? No....

Oh ya...California ? I still don't know how Fontana hasn't lost a date and how Atlanta hasn't really before either.

Of course, this is all doubly tough because ISC and NASCAR can shuffle the deck on their events, but try to take one from Bruton and SMI and you could be in court forever. IT is...a mess.

[call_me_andrew]

I don't think it's so much the road course that scares NASCAR, it's the fact that Portland is owned by a municipality, and the last Champ Car race had poor attendence by Champ Car standards.

Fontana hasn't lost a date because it's in the second largest media market in the United States.

ISC really shot themselves in the foot when they shut down Pikes Peak and sold it on the condition it could only be used for club racing. They let go of the Denver market without a race.

A race in western Tennessee or Arkansas would give NASCAR the moral victory of another southern race while still entering a new market.

[Jonesi]

I don't think it's so much the road course that scares NASCAR, it's the fact that Portland is owned by a municipality, and the last Champ Car race had poor attendence by Champ Car standards.

Fontana hasn't lost a date because it's in the second largest media market in the United States.

ISC really shot themselves in the foot when they shut down Pikes Peak and sold it on the condition it could only be used for club racing. They let go of the Denver market without a race.

A race in western Tennessee or Arkansas would give NASCAR the moral victory of another southern race while still entering a new market.

Homestead is also 1/2 owned by the city.

Denver deal really pissed off the local racing community, some of which have strong connections in Colo. politics. If they ever want a track there they will have to pay for it themselves with little/no govt money now. In other words no track.

[Lee Roy]

We're only talking about taking races away from tracks that have multiple dates. It's not like we're trying to abandon these tracks entirely.

Some people may only attend one race at these tracks.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't think it's so much the road course that scares NASCAR, it's the fact that Portland is owned by a municipality, and the last Champ Car race had poor attendence by Champ Car standards.

Fontana hasn't lost a date because it's in the second largest media market in the United States.

ISC really shot themselves in the foot when they shut down Pikes Peak and sold it on the condition it could only be used for club racing. They let go of the Denver market without a race.

A race in western Tennessee or Arkansas would give NASCAR the moral victory of another southern race while still entering a new market.


The Road course DOES scare the old school fans and much of the NASCAR media train. Portland I think would serve their desire to get into that market, but they wont bite that bullet AND the other thing is does Portland have the garages? NASCAR wants garages for the Sprint Cup series and THAT is part of it. If you build the facilities, then NASCAR is much more serious about putting a Sprint Cup date in your lap.

That said the fact is Portland being owned by the city means not much. The promotor would rent the track and pay the sanctioning fee, and the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve where NASCAR's Nationwide cars run in Montreal is also a city facility.

I think the reason NASCAR isn't in the Pac west is because of the lack of a facility. Which is why I agree that Pikes Peak being bailed on is puzzling. Did the Nationwide (Busch at the time) guys draw well there? Did they do the market research to figure out whether people would drive down from Denver?

I do know this much, they put a second race in Kansas then they are really screwing themselves for new markets. 2 races per track is more about the health of ISC or Bruton Smith than it is about the viability and spreading the series into new markets.

As for Felix wanting less dates, I should suggest maybe Felix wants 20% less money in purses per season too?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Some people may only attend one race at these tracks.
They could all go to one. Look at Atlanta and the empty seats. You take Atlanta down to one race a year, it will sell out whereas the double dates are NOT selling out.

Ditto for Fontana. I think the fans who have ONE date will appreciate it a lot more than tracks where they have 2 and neither is within 80% of a sell out....

[NickFalzone]

I don't mind double-dates at tracks with good racing, but there's a couple on the schedule that I could do with a single. I think 30 races per season is a good number, and I also think they could shorten some of the races 10-20% without losing ANY fan interest (just commercial dollars).

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't mind double-dates at tracks with good racing, but there's a couple on the schedule that I could do with a single. I think 30 races per season is a good number, and I also think they could shorten some of the races 10-20% without losing ANY fan interest (just commercial dollars).

I wouldn't want them doing double dates ANYWHERE save maybe Charlotte with the Allstar race and the 600 if I had a choice.

No other race series of any real importance doubles up the dates...except Sprint Cup racing. Now that they want to explore new markets, they have a full calender and it is damned hard to take races away from tracks that have had dates. Just look at the beating they took for taking Darlington's Southern 500 away and shipping it to Fontana, a CLEAR sign that they needed a clue....

[Lee Roy]

Let's see, are any of you who are endorsing Sabates opinion that NASCAR should cut some races from the schedule, some of the same people who were bleeding all over the place when NASCAR moved a race from Darlington a few years ago?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Let's see, are any of you who are endorsing Sabates opinion that NASCAR should cut some races from the schedule, some of the same people who were bleeding all over the place when NASCAR moved a race from Darlington a few years ago?

I am not for them cutting any dates from anyone, but I am saying they have backed themselves into a corner, and the options for cutting dates were as I put them. That said, once a track has a race, it is pretty hard to pull them away, even if the track is like Fontana or Atlanta and not coming close to sell outs. Personally, if I was running NASCAR, Fontana wouldn't have gotten that second date from Darlington's Labor Day weekend. I would have found some other way to get a race there but taking it from Darlington in the spring was a better option than removing what was a great tradition. The fact that ISC's manager of the track didn't get his butt in gear to sell that place out until he was only left with ONE date doesn't change the fact you cant dump ALL your old traditions and expect respect from the fans.

I like the length of the season too. If it is "too long" you are working in the industry, not a fan. Us fans would suck it up and watch 2 more weekends a year if we could....but that isn't practical for the teams.

[Lee Roy]

If I had to cut a date from the NASCAR schedule it would be Indy. The racing there sucks real bad and fewer and fewer people are showing up for the race. The fans are voting with their feet at that track.

[Mark in Oshawa]

If I had to cut a date from the NASCAR schedule it would be Indy. The racing there sucks real bad and fewer and fewer people are showing up for the race. The fans are voting with their feet at that track.

They are? Still put more people in the Brickyard for a race than all but maybe Daytona....and I suggest that if the race was not in August but in May or September when it isn't likely to be the middle of a heat and humidity festival, you would draw better.

Regardless of what you think of the racing at Indy, the crowd there is still more than enough to sustain a large purse and prestege. Indy is tough to pass and race on. Gee...that sounds like Darlington.

[Lee Roy]

They are? Still put more people in the Brickyard for a race than all but maybe Daytona....and I suggest that if the race was not in August but in May or September when it isn't likely to be the middle of a heat and humidity festival, you would draw better.

It may not be too much longer before IMS asks NASCAR if they can run a race at Indy in May. ;) HAHAHAHAHA


Regardless of what you think of the racing at Indy, the crowd there is still more than enough to sustain a large purse and prestege. Indy is tough to pass and race on. Gee...that sounds like Darlington.

I see what you mean. It's tough to beat a series of 10 lap heat races. :p

[Mark in Oshawa]

It may not be too much longer before IMS asks NASCAR if they can run a race at Indy in May. ;) HAHAHAHAHA



I see what you mean. It's tough to beat a series of 10 lap heat races. :p

You may be right on May Lee Roy, but other than the one year of the Goodyear Fiasco there has been some pretty interesting races over the last 15 years or so....

[call_me_andrew]

The fans are voting with their feet at that track.

That's kind of ironic when you consider that fans at Talladega count with their feet. But then they're helpless after 20.



No, I could not resist a joke at Alabama's expense.

[tstran17_88]

I'm just glad Felix's opinions mean nothing and his relevance in Nascar is even less.

[dunes]

I agree with most of this; Michigan,Daytona and some others only need one event per year.I'm from Mi. and LOVE racing and the M.I.S. atmosphere but seriously the Aug race is soooo hot its not good for the drivers nor the fans.

I propose only one race per track and many more styles of racing on each track. Again I suggest things like the oldtimers leauge and mid sportsman series.bring back I.R.of C.. and even more dates for ARCA and a world series for west,east,coast and throw in the canadian racers as well. expand the the tracks to more events not more of the same event.
Again and of course as usual just my opinion.