Mobile phones & tablets thread

[pino]

Or I will bring it to you in Sweden on February ;)

[Mark]

You can have my 32GB for the mazuma price :p

[pino]

You can have my best pizza and lasagna included in the price :p :

[J4MIE]

Keep the offers coming in ;)

Mark, how good is your pizza? :p :

[Mark]

Frozen!

[J4MIE]

Ach, that's not good enough! I have recently discovered Sainsbury's make your own large pizzas, they are amazing :D

[Mark]

At the Pity Me branch? Yes they are indeed awesome.

[Big Ben]

I just wonder what the size of the new iPhone is going to be. I thing everything else is going to be close to what's in the market right now. I find both One X and Galaxy S3 to be great devices but somehow they seem just too big to me. You need both hands to reach to all corners of the screen. TBH I don't even know if they would feat in all my pants :laugh: .

[Mark]

All reports say the phone will be the same width (or very close) to the current iPhone but will be taller to accommodate the new 16:9 4" display. (Current phone is 4:3 3.5")

[Big Ben]

I've read some rumours that they are considering different size versions of the phone (sounds made up). If that's true some company might sue them because they invented differented sizes for the same product :laugh: . I find the 3.5" - 4" range the 'normal' size for a phone. What's over that falls more in the 'jumbo' phones category.

[Mark]

They especially don't want to make it too big as they want you to buy both the iPhone and iPad / iPad Mini.

[Dave B]

I just wonder what the size of the new iPhone is going to be. I thing everything else is going to be close to what's in the market right now. I find both One X and Galaxy S3 to be great devices but somehow they seem just too big to me. You need both hands to reach to all corners of the screen. TBH I don't even know if they would feat in all my pants :laugh: .
I found my S3 disconcertingly big for about the first day, but it's amazing how quickly you get used to it.

[J4MIE]

Agree with Dave that you quickly get used to it, however, as I may have mentioned previously, I downsized from the 5" Streak and couldn't be happier with my iPhone. I have no need to upgrade apart from the memory :p :

[Mark]

You should be able to get a good deal on a 64gb iPhone 4S once the iPhone 5 is out.

[ioan]

200£ for a used phone when you can get a new one almost for free when you subscribe or re-sign for a 2 years contract?! People are really crazy!

[cali]

200£ for a used phone when you can get a new one almost for free when you subscribe or re-sign for a 2 years contract?! People are really crazy!
Agreed, I was especially stunned when Henners mentioned "desperate" to buy used phone for 200 pounds. I'm out of words ....

[Malbec]

So, those with Android phones running ICS, how is it going? My sensation needed a factory reset followed by regular (every three/four days) physical removal of the battery to keep it going at anything resembling bearable speed.

[Dave B]

So, those with Android phones running ICS, how is it going? My sensation needed a factory reset followed by regular (every three/four days) physical removal of the battery to keep it going at anything resembling bearable speed.
Very well, thank you. In fact, I've just upgraded to 60 Meg broadband at home because my 10 meg connection was slowing the browser down! I've been using my S3 for about a fortnight now and had only one lockup, and that was on an app which also used to crash my HTC so I guess it's poorly coded.

The only time I thought it was running a little bit slowly it turned out I'd accidentally activated the power-saving mode which cuts the processor speed and manages the screen brightness a bit stingily.

[airshifter]

So, those with Android phones running ICS, how is it going? My sensation needed a factory reset followed by regular (every three/four days) physical removal of the battery to keep it going at anything resembling bearable speed.

No noticed loss of speed with my Droid Razr. I did have to do a soft reset the other day, which is the first time the phone has locked up since I got it. Only time will tell... I hope I don't regret the update to the new OS.

[schmenke]

So, those with Android phones running ICS, how is it going? My sensation needed a factory reset followed by regular (every three/four days) physical removal of the battery to keep it going at anything resembling bearable speed.

Not a phone, but I've owned my Samsung Tablet for several months now with no problems at all.

[Malbec]

No noticed loss of speed with my Droid Razr. I did have to do a soft reset the other day, which is the first time the phone has locked up since I got it. Only time will tell... I hope I don't regret the update to the new OS.

So you upgraded too? My problem was obvious from the very first time I used the phone post-update so I suspect if you haven't encountered serious problems yet you've been spared...

[CaptainRaiden]

Just installed this Sandisk 64 GB microSD card in my Galaxy S3.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-64GB-Micro-SDXC-Ultra/dp/B007JTKM30/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345486508&sr=8-1

What's amazing and weird at the same time is that it appears to be faster than the phone memory.

This gets the total memory (phone + card) to somewhere around 85 GB and now holds my entire music collection, around 30 GB, (already uploaded the playlists), a couple of HD MKV movies, a huge collection of books and comic books and exercise videos. I'll be doing a lot of traveling on my vacation, flights, trains, buses, so there's some good material to pass time. So far I've managed to fill about 60 GB. :D

This leaves a lot of room on the phone memory to install tons of apps, I already have about a 100+, and the Galaxy S3's hardware makes sure it does not get bogged down if I install more. Already installed a couple of awesome console quality games to play on the journey.

What's awesome is that the Galaxy S3 + the microSD card with a total memory of 85 GB is STILL cheaper than the 32 GB iPhone 4S. Forget the 64 GB version, they are cheaper then the 32 GB iphone!

Later gators. :D

[race aficionado]

BBC News - Everything Everywhere gets 4G go-ahead from Ofcom (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19328653)


Radio spectrum is actually auctioned?


That shows how much I know . . . .

[Malbec]

BBC News - Everything Everywhere gets 4G go-ahead from Ofcom (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19328653)


Radio spectrum is actually auctioned?


That shows how much I know . . . .

They managed to sell the 3G rights for £20 billion, doubt they'll be able to raise that much again but should be a good haul for the treasury.

[Mark]

BBC News - Everything Everywhere gets 4G go-ahead from Ofcom (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19328653)


Radio spectrum is actually auctioned?


That shows how much I know . . . .


Oh yes! I expect the situation is the same in the USA.

At the time of the 3G auction carriers were still under the delusion that customers would pay through the nose for things like a 30 second clip of 'goals'. (yes I think many really did think football clips would earn them a fortune but this was before ITV digital proved the football money is not inexhaustible)

However customers we're not that daft and the carriers made nowhere near the revenues they'd hoped for, and paid the government for!

So this time the payments will likely be less.

But the spectrum is big business. We've recently (well to be completed next month) switched off analogue TV partly because it's old and useless but mostly to free up a massive part of the spectrum which can then be sold.

Plus they were quite clever in making the BBC shoulder much of the cost of switchover. Yet the treasury reaps the rewards.

[ioan]

BBC News - Everything Everywhere gets 4G go-ahead from Ofcom (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19328653)


Radio spectrum is actually auctioned?


That shows how much I know . . . .

Yep, that's how it works as far as I know.

[Mark]

Looks like you'll get your wish. It's basically going to be a thinner and longer iPhone 4 with a 4" 16:9 screen.

[pino]

Looks like you'll get your wish. It's basically going to be a thinner and longer iPhone 4 with a 4" 16:9 screen.

Can't wait :D

[Mark]

iPad Mini will almost certainly be announced mid-October.

[pino]

iPhone 5 preview (http://www.imore.com/iphone-5-preview-processor-graphics-and-ram)

[ioan]

Just hope I can pay towards the handset and get a decent discount on the monthly price. If I pay £300-350 towards the phone (32GB), I hope I can get the contract down to £25-30 p/m. T Mobile have been bending over backwards to get me to sign a new contract and I have 9 years of loyalty to play with too.

You would pay 350£ for a phone + 25-30£ / month for a contract??

[Mark]

Apple confirms 'surprise' September 12 event ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/04/apple_confirms_sept_12_event/)

It looks like it will indeed be called 'iPhone 5' and not 'The New iPhone'

[Mark]

Seeing as there is a 5 in the picture, I think you could be right :p

Isn't it the 6th generation phone though? I think they should have done what they did with the iPad and just call it what it is. An iPhone.

Yeah it's the 6th iPhone release, but it would look a bit silly saying 6 after 4!

[DonJippo]

Nokia is introducing new models in less than an hour, live webcast Webcast - Nokia (http://www.nokia.com/global/about-nokia/webcast/live/)

[Mark]

BBC News - Nokia unveils two Windows Phone 8 handsets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19491421)

Looks pretty good; and everyone here I've shown likes the look of it, would anyone buy one? No.

[Daniel]

BBC News - Nokia unveils two Windows Phone 8 handsets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19491421)

Looks pretty good; and everyone here I've shown likes the look of it, would anyone buy one? No.
That's because they value the brand over substance :) I've got a Lumia 800 and it's a fantastic phone. Well built, interesting value added features on Nokia's part and a buttery smooth OS. When Windows 8 hits and people realise that the design language translates across both then I wonder what's going to happen? *strokes chin* Whatever happens, the iPhone 5 launch will be the last time Apple is allowed to launch yet another behind the curve phone with a view to superceding it with year old technology in another year.

I've got City Lens on my Lumia 800 and although it's not something I would probably use myself, it is very cool. The iPhone is not going to come with all the things that the Lumia 920 is going to come with.

and there you have it, a class leading phone which shares practically nothing in terms of design language with an iPhone......

If you think a lumia is anything like the disappointing Symbian smartphones of the past then you're wrong :)

[Stuartf12007]

bing is a good search engine, however explorer sucks.

[Daniel]

I've had loads of Nokia's and they always knew how to produce a solid reliable phone. Looking at the Lumia 800 I would say at first glance its an okay looking phone if not a little boring with not much attention paid to the aesthetics of the phone. I see you can get it in a range of colours which is very much like Nokia back in the day, but the days of millions of different covers and colours doesn't appeal to me anymore now I have grown up. Reading the review on techradar, two things instantly jump out as negatives. Bing and Internet explorer being the default. Wouldn't touch either although with most things that's personal preference. I understand these can be changed but this option is available on iPhone too with their defaults. Another thing I dislike and I've mentioned this before in the past is the awful tile interface with bold blocks which remind me of my grandmothers phone with the big numbers. It just doesn't look inviting to use IMO. The positive about the phone is the value for money it offers. You can get them free on most networks and with cheap monthly rates. I don't think it would be fair to compare it to the new iPhone. For one we don't know the spec of it yet so its rather difficult to suggest a Nokia is better, and secondly these devices are aimed at totally different ends of the market.

Don't take offense at my criticisms Daniel, I wouldn't expect you to make the same choices. As long as you are happy with what you buy that's all that matters.

With Windows Phone 8 and 7.8, you can change the tile sizes so that they're smaller. the monochromatic tile interface is there so that that whatever colour the tile is, the font which shows the live update can be seen easily. Live tiles are great, most people who actually try out a windows phone for more than 2 seconds find it very useful. If for instance I had yourself pinned as a live tile to my home screen, your latest facebook update will show up on your tile. Anyway not all the tiles are monochromatic anyway......

http://oi49.tinypic.com/1in2c2.jpg

As to explorer somehow being a negative? Windows Phone doesn't run IE6 you know..... there's so little of an interface there that there's nothing to dislike about it. It renders pages and that's about it.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/2nreemh.jpg
What can you dislike about this interface? :confused:
http://oi48.tinypic.com/anklmo.jpg
This is about as complex as IE9 gets on Windows phone 7.5. These days the only reason I ever use firefox is when something (like this forum) won't render properly in IE10 in Windows 8. Internet Explorer is actually rather good these days but if you use Opera or Firefox or Chrome or whatever you're hardly missing out to be fair, it's just a browser that displays stuff! I remember back on my N95 you could get mobile firefox and it was much better than the standard Symbian browser, but times have changed and all OS's have competent enough browsers. I think it was a mistake for microsoft to call their mobile browser IE because that holds negative connotations for some people. Rest assured the browser is great and ultra fast.

I'm in the habit of using Google on my PC but I use bing on my phone and other than when I'm trying to shop for something in which case I use froogle, then Bing comes up with the goods. But you can still pin google to your home screen if you like.

These devices are aimed at different ends of the market?!?!?!?!? The Lumia 920 is a flagship phone, just like a GS3 or an iPhone. It's got NFC, LTE, inductive charging and many other things that the current iPhone doesn't have.

No offence, but actually try a Windows phone for more than 2 seconds and you'll get it. In fact just watch some of the early comparison videos on a decent website like PocketNow and you'll begin to understand the design language and the reason why Windows Phone 7/8 is how it is. I've tried iOS for a good length of time with iPads and I just found it incredibly unintuitive compared to Windows Phone and Android.

[Mark]

Microsoft has always called their Internet browsers on phones IE but they have *nothing* in common with the desktop version except the name.

Time will tell how Windows 8 turns out. The big thing is the apps. If they can boast the same apps as iOS and Android (or better!) they will be on solid ground, if not...

[Mark]

I like the wireless charging mat for the new Nokia I have to add. Very innovative and its good to see.

Innovative, no. They've been around for donkeys. Being integrated into the phone is new but this falls under 'obvious'.

[Malbec]

Time will tell how Windows 8 turns out. The big thing is the apps. If they can boast the same apps as iOS and Android (or better!) they will be on solid ground, if not...

MS needs to match the commoner apps that iOS and Android have, but in order to gain market share they need to remember to focus on customer experience.

I met up with a few friends last night roughly split equally between Android and iPhone users. None of the iPhone users had noticed any drop in performance despite iOS updates. All of the Android users who had bought their phones before ICS came out had noticed a slowdown with the new OS update, and most of them had high end handsets. Given that ICS was actually finished over a year ago the phones we'd bought would have been the ones Google had worked on when writing the new OS, yet it beggars belief that those handsets can't run it smoothly.

I know Google is an engineering lead company and Android is a great OS, however they need to remember that not everyone has the latest top end phone. Most people have phones that are at least one, maybe two years old and if their new updated OS ruins their phone word is going to spread quickly. Will they learn for their next OS update? Do I want to be a guinea pig to find out?

That leaves me in a conundrum. I'm disappointed by Android but if Apple is going to charge a hefty premium for the iPhone 5 then I'm not really too interested. I might therefore take a look at the Windows phones on offer and the Nokia will be one of them especially if the camera is as good as they claim. Time for a test drive...

[BleAivano]

I think the win 8 phones will do well. Especially since i think from a user friendly point of view, it seems
like a good idea to have the same OS on "all" (phone tablet & pc) units. But i also think that a shared OS
will lead to easier integration in (home) networks.

[Malbec]

If thats more than you want to spend, I would look at possibly the Samsung S3 as the deals now are really good value IMO.

I refuse to buy Samsungs out of principle so the S3 is out. Will give the new HTCs and Nokias a good look though.

[janneppi]

I don't dislike the look of them, but wouldn't buy one out of choice.
why not?

I was sort of looking into WP phones but a couple of deal breakers surfaced, apparently I wouldn't be able to use my bluetooth heart rate belt, because the idiot box doens't allow connections outside phone-operations from non-MS software.
Another gem is the lack of real multitasking for non MS software, no point getting one if I can't use Putty in the backround.

It's back to dreaming of a Nokia N950 then. :)

[Daniel]

why not?

I was sort of looking into WP phones but a couple of deal breakers surfaced, apparently I wouldn't be able to use my bluetooth heart rate belt, because the idiot box doens't allow connections outside phone-operations from non-MS software.
Another gem is the lack of real multitasking for non MS software, no point getting one if I can't use Putty in the backround.

It's back to dreaming of a Nokia N950 then. :)

Are you sure? Leaked Windows Phone 8 SDK confirms Peer to Peer Bluetooth functionality | WMPoweruser (http://wmpoweruser.com/leaked-windows-phone-8-sdk-confirms-peer-to-peer-bluetooth-functionality/)

What's putty?

Depends what you mean by real multitasking. At launch Windows Phone 7 didn't really support multitasking at all, with the Mango update (7.5) apps like LastFM now run whilst other apps are being used and under the lock screen, prior to this you had to keep it open and couldn't use anything else which was quite annoying. With Windows Phone 8, you will have real multitasking comparable to that which Android has (and iOS doesn't currently fnar fnar!).

Microsoft brings true, background multitasking to Windows Phone 8 -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/microsoft-brings-true-background-multitasking-to-windows-phone/)

I like my WP7 handsets, but truth be told I have to admit there are some dealbreakers for people who have specific needs such as BT heart monitors, but for the average user they're fine. Windows Phone 8 however is a different story and will offer a proper set of features so suit most people out there.

[janneppi]

Are you sure? Leaked Windows Phone 8 SDK confirms Peer to Peer Bluetooth functionality | WMPoweruser (http://wmpoweruser.com/leaked-windows-phone-8-sdk-confirms-peer-to-peer-bluetooth-functionality/)
That would be a good thing, especially when this has been a standard in devices I've used for five years.


What's putty?


Depends what you mean by real multitasking. At launch Windows Phone 7 didn't really support multitasking at all, with the Mango update (7.5) apps like LastFM now run whilst other apps are being used and under the lock screen, prior to this you had to keep it open and couldn't use anything else which was quite annoying. With Windows Phone 8, you will have real multitasking comparable to that which Android has (and iOS doesn't currently fnar fnar!).

Microsoft brings true, background multitasking to Windows Phone 8 -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/microsoft-brings-true-background-multitasking-to-windows-phone/)

PuTTY - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PuTTY)
My connection to a dedicated machine where I run a IRC server process.(Or something like that)

If W8 has proper multitasking that's not dependent of what program I want run, then good.

[Daniel]

That would be a good thing, especially when this has been a standard in devices I've used for five years.


PuTTY - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PuTTY)
My connection to a dedicated machine where I run a IRC server process.(Or something like that)

If W8 has proper multitasking that's not dependent of what program I want run, then good.
For some reason the wmpoweruser site is going up and down today so I've linked to a cached page. Is this what you're looking for?
Its here! The SSH client for Windows Phone 7.5! | WMPoweruser (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0Cy78XrD1HgJ:wmpoweruser.com/its-here-the-ssh-client-for-windows-phone-7-5/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk) This runs under the lock screen in WP7, but in WP8 if it was written properly then it would run in the background properly :)

[janneppi]

I suppose I don't want to gamble and be stuck for 2 years with a phone I don't like. Everyone used to have Nokia's a few years back but I don't know anybody with one anymore.
Yeah, iphones seemed to have really taken over Nokia's for the Mondeo man's phone.

Didn't you just complain on the fitness thread you need to save money to have a kid, what are you doing switching to new expensive phone? ;)

[ioan]

MS needs to match the commoner apps that iOS and Android have, but in order to gain market share they need to remember to focus on customer experience.

I met up with a few friends last night roughly split equally between Android and iPhone users. None of the iPhone users had noticed any drop in performance despite iOS updates. All of the Android users who had bought their phones before ICS came out had noticed a slowdown with the new OS update, and most of them had high end handsets. Given that ICS was actually finished over a year ago the phones we'd bought would have been the ones Google had worked on when writing the new OS, yet it beggars belief that those handsets can't run it smoothly.

I know Google is an engineering lead company and Android is a great OS, however they need to remember that not everyone has the latest top end phone. Most people have phones that are at least one, maybe two years old and if their new updated OS ruins their phone word is going to spread quickly. Will they learn for their next OS update? Do I want to be a guinea pig to find out?

That leaves me in a conundrum. I'm disappointed by Android but if Apple is going to charge a hefty premium for the iPhone 5 then I'm not really too interested. I might therefore take a look at the Windows phones on offer and the Nokia will be one of them especially if the camera is as good as they claim. Time for a test drive...

And who is forcing people with 2 years old phones to install the latest Android version?!
It's like complaining that a 2GB laptop can not run Windows 7 smoothly.
It should be common sense dammit.

[Malbec]

And who is forcing people with 2 years old phones to install the latest Android version?!
It's like complaining that a 2GB laptop can not run Windows 7 smoothly.
It should be common sense dammit.

You show a level of condescension in your post that displays a lack of knowledge of how things happen in reality.

An upgrade to the latest version of Windows requires either a trip to the shops or a download and install, both voluntary acts correct?

With an android phone you are merely informed that there is an OS update available and that you are strongly recommended to download it. No more information is given.

In the past this has included small security or bug fixes and minor OS upgrades, things you wouldn't want to miss. Therefore when I received the latest upgrade recommendation earlier this year I had little reason to suspect it would be anything different especially since my phone provider had already expressed strong reservations about ICS and I didn't believe they would pass it on to the customer.

You may also want to query why some phone makers such as Sony have flat out refused to allow ICS updates onto their old models as they believe it to be substandard as an overall customer experience. Has that happened with Windows?

[Malbec]

Yeah I find like you say, the update comes through but doesn't tell you what it is. Some updates have taken a minute or two and have been bug fixes, and the last one took 30 minutes and was a new OS. Without trawling through the internet trying to find out what it could be, you have to trust that this update will suit your phone. A friend of mine has a HTC Beats Audio phone which is a lot newer than mine, yet when I scanned for updates for him (which you can do in the settings) it said the phone was up to date. His phone is running an old version of Android, and yet HTC allowed the Incredible S to have the update and not a newer model?! As it happens, my phone now runs awfully slow.

As far as I understand it three parties need to agree for the update to be allowed on your phone. Google obviously is happy with any phone running it. The makers have to make recommendations and some like Sony have refused completely saying it slows their older models down too much. Then the phone companies themselves have to agree and they might allow it on some handsets but not others. Hence why I think you can have one phone getting ICS on one network but not on another network.

I was under the impression that my network had refused ICS completely but then they obviously changed their minds, something they didn't inform me of so I thought the update was a security fix until I saw the size of the download. By then it was too late.

Its a confusing picture and it also makes ioan's bizarre assertion look a little stupid.

[Mark]

Even Apple tells you what the upgrade it first and gives you the opportunity to reject it.

[ioan]

You show a level of condescension in your post that displays a lack of knowledge of how things happen in reality.

Yeah 'lack of knowledge of how things happen in reality' meaning that I underestimated the stupidity level that can be found out there. You are certainly right.

[ioan]

My phone would continuously remind you to install the latest version with update reminders. Not all android devices get the update and you tend to expect it to work if the manufacturer has allowed it to be released for a certain phone. With the numerous updates I have installed, android 4.0 is the first one that hasn't been compatable. I suppose I was too trusting.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

As long as the update is not installed automatically it is up to the end user to check if he will benefit from the update or not.
I do not install more than 10% of all updates that are sent to me for my Samsung Tab and BlackBerry phone.
First I check the data available to see if it is worth it or not, then I decide, then I go for it or not. It's that simple.

[Malbec]

As long as the update is not installed automatically it is up to the end user to check if he will benefit from the update or not.
I do not install more than 10% of all updates that are sent to me for my Samsung Tab and BlackBerry phone.
First I check the data available to see if it is worth it or not, then I decide, then I go for it or not. It's that simple.

And how do you do this if you are not told what the update is?

[Jag_Warrior]

Is this pretty much the last hurrah for Nokia?

Nokia cuts prices of older Windows phones, shares fall (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/06/us-nokia-idUSBRE8850CS20120906)



(Reuters) - Loss-making Nokia has slashed prices of its older smartphone models using Microsoft Windows software, industry sources said on Thursday, a day after investors gave its latest Lumia phones a rapid thumbs-down.

Two industry sources told Reuters that the Finnish group, which is struggling to recoup ground lost to its rivals, cut the price of its mid-range Lumia 800 Windows Phone by around 15 percent this week and made smaller reductions on other Windows models.


Nokia shares continued falling on Thursday after slumping 13 percent on Wednesday as the firm unveiled two new Windows Phone models in what may be the last major shot at reclaiming market share lost to Apple Inc, Samsung Electronics Co Ltd and Google Inc.


Nokia did not disclose the price or roll-out dates of the new models - which with their rounded edges and colourful covers look similar to their predecessors - and its share fell a further 4.6 percent to 1.9 euros by 1320 GMT on Thursday.


Research firm CCS Insight, which tracks market prices, confirmed the cuts and said they were necessary to keep momentum behind current Lumia 800 and 900 devices now when new products have been announced using the updated Windows Phone 8 software.


Nokia needs the new models to succeed as it has logged more than 3 billion euros ($3.78 billion) in operating losses in the last 18 months, forcing it to cut 10,000 jobs and pursue asset sales.


My guess is if the Windows Phone 8 OS does finally make a dent in the market, it will probably be with phones made by Samsung. Unless Microsoft is willing to make a large equity investment in Nokia, I can't see that company surviving for very much longer - their cash burn is accelerating at too fast a pace. Both Nokia and RIM seems to be in a race toward the graveyard at this point. And if BB10 is a flop, RIM's best hope probably is to continue the process it seems to have already started: sell itself or fully license its patents to competitors. HTC, another phone OEM that's having financial issues, is said to just now be considering a tie-up or licensing deal with RIM. As for Nokia, from what's been said, Nokia doesn't' really have much worthwhile to sell or license. The hits seem to just keep coming for that once dominant player.

[Mark]

Mobile firm cuts prices of old models after the announcement of new ones.

This is news?

[Jag_Warrior]

Mobile firm cuts prices of old models after the announcement of new ones.

This is news?

I think the news is that the "old" Nokia Windows phones didn't sell very well when they were new phones and now the new phones replacing them aren't being seen as competitive either. At least that's how I read the article. Usually when new products are announced, the share price rises. But in this case, it fell rather dramatically. Not a good sign for an already struggling company.

Nokia simply has to do something... has to get some phone to catch on, as it can't afford to rack up another $4 billion in losses over the next year or so.

[Daniel]

Is this pretty much the last hurrah for Nokia?

Nokia cuts prices of older Windows phones, shares fall (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/06/us-nokia-idUSBRE8850CS20120906)





My guess is if the Windows Phone 8 OS does finally make a dent in the market, it will probably be with phones made by Samsung. Unless Microsoft is willing to make a large equity investment in Nokia, I can't see that company surviving for very much longer - their cash burn is accelerating at too fast a pace. Both Nokia and RIM seems to be in a race toward the graveyard at this point. And if BB10 is a flop, RIM's best hope probably is to continue the process it seems to have already started: sell itself or fully license its patents to competitors. HTC, another phone OEM that's having financial issues, is said to just now be considering a tie-up or licensing deal with RIM. As for Nokia, from what's been said, Nokia doesn't' really have much worthwhile to sell or license. The hits seem to just keep coming for that once dominant player.

Ummm OK, it took me 2 seconds to google "nokia cash reserves 2012" and find out that the situation is not quite as dire as some would like to suggest. The media loves to take dumps on anyone who isn't Apple.

What the fork does Nokia need to do to get praise? If you got the launch articles and replaced Nokia with Apple and Lumia 920 with iPhone 5 then everyone would be singing the praises of the new iPhone 5 and quite rightly so, it would be a fantastic product.

I'm going to sound silly, but it seems like the whole media game is rigged, release a product called an iPhone and no matter what it'll be praised or at least not slated, put Nokia on it and even if it performed sucky sucky 2 dolla then it'd get slated, stick Samsung branding on it and it'll be successful but get sued.

The Lumia's are gettting a price cut because the initial hype around them is of course lessening as time goes on, Microsoft and Nokia still want to draw people into the WP family and because they're automatically worth less to a customer now that the WP8 Nokia's have been launched.

My phone contract runs out on November 4th and WP8 Launches late October, convenient! :)

[Daniel]

I think the news is that the "old" Nokia Windows phones didn't sell very well when they were new phones and now the new phones replacing them aren't being seen as competitive either. At least that's how I read the article. Usually when new products are announced, the share price rises. But in this case, it fell rather dramatically. Not a good sign for an already struggling company.

Nokia simply has to do something... has to get some phone to catch on, as it can't afford to rack up another $4 billion in losses over the next year or so.

I'm sorry, but can I have some of what you're smoking? The Lumia 920 will likely eclipse the iPhone 5 in every single sense hardware wise. The reason why it's not seen as competitive is because it's not called an iPhone and it's not allied with an OS which is yet to be a runaway success. In fact I'm sure that if the iPhone 5 was just an original iPhone in a different colour then it would sell more than the Lumia 920 will. So you've got to ask yourself what the problem is and whether Nokia (at this point in time with decent product) is at fault or whether people will just buy whatever Apple peddles.

[donKey jote]

Anybody know what Sony's Xperia S is like? :andrea:

[Mark]

But they are certainly resting on their laurels. We haven't seen much innovation since the original iPhone.

[ioan]

And how do you do this if you are not told what the update is?

Ever heard of Google?
Rest assured if you search you will find the details. It's just a bit more difficult then expecting everything on a silver plate.

[ioan]

I shouldn't be expected to do research into updates that are made available, that's just inconvenient and hardly a user friendly experience IMO.

At least I know now what your problem is, you expect to get everything on a silver plate. Worse part is that if you don't get the info and make a mistake you claim it is someone else' fault.
I learned that not all things in life are what they look and whatever I do I give it a good thought before going ahead, so I learned to google and it helped me a lot.


Your Samsung Android tablet may be very different to my HTC phone in terms of info provided, but your Blackberry phone is hardly comparable and doesn't even run Android??!!

Who said that the BlackBerry runs Android? All I said is that on both phones I carefully chose what I install.

[race aficionado]

But they are certainly resting on their laurels. We haven't seen much innovation since the original iPhone.

Which brings a good question:
What would you want in your current phone that you don't have now? (technology, not price issues)

Other than a longer battery life, I get what I need from my phone right now - (iphone4S) and would be happily satisfied if they come up with something that I did not know that I needed until they offer it to me.

What would you guys want that you don't already have?

[ioan]

The media loves to take dumps on anyone who isn't Apple.

You're right, but then again we talk about journo's not specialists, these people will write whatever they get paid to write because they generally lack the knowledge to write a technically well researched article.

[Mark]

I was asked that question recently what do you want in the iPhone 5. And my answer was simply - I don't know; I want something which will make me go 'Wow, that's amazing!!'. What that could be I
don't know because the best things are ones we hadn't even thought of!

[ioan]

Anybody know what Sony's Xperia S is like? :andrea:

http://www.pocketpc.ch/attachment.php?attachmentid=89917&cid=18

[donKey jote]

yes, thanks ioan, I'd already got that far here Sony Xperia S mit Vertrag T-Mobile D1 Vodafone D2 E-Plus o2 BASE Vertragsverlängerung ohne Vertrag (http://www.handy-deutschland.de/sony-xperia-s.html) :p

I mean is it crap like Apple/Samsung or great like Apple/Samsung or something in between like HTC ? :bandit:

Is it recommended by yuz experts or is it more a bit of a "Nokia" ? :andrea:


btw it's not for me, it's for donkito :s :dozey:

[Malbec]

Ever heard of Google?
Rest assured if you search you will find the details. It's just a bit more difficult then expecting everything on a silver plate.

Again you assume.

Taking the ICS update for a start, the release was staggered across different networks and for different phones. Even with the same network and the same phone my friends received their updates over a period of weeks and months, not at the same time.

Meanwhile I assume that normal security patches continue to be released. Is this an unfair assumption for someone as smart as you?

As I mention repeatedly the nature of the update isn't given and if you don't update further updates are blocked including security patches.

So how can I assume that the update I've been given MUST be ICS because its kind of being rolled out across my network over the whole year?

Perhaps I'm lazy in looking up the exact nature of what kind of update might be around, but do you think that it is good practice for updates to be pushed onto customers without informing them what it might be? A simple "the latest update for your phone (OS ICS update) is available, would you like to download?" would suffice. Thats all it takes. Its poor service that they can't even do that. Odd because every other phone OS supplier seems to find it easy.

Now since you're so intelligent tell me which other clever companies operate their update systems this way. This isn't about getting things on a silver plate. Its about expecting industry norms of customer 'service'.

[Malbec]

What would you guys want that you don't already have?

Stability, security and lack of lag (I have security but not the other two). A decent camera, mine is blurrier than I'd expect even for a phone. A phone that doesn't require a complete change of accessories every time I get a new one. Quicker wireless internet. Other than that not much really.

[Malbec]

Both Nokia and RIM seems to be in a race toward the graveyard at this point. And if BB10 is a flop, RIM's best hope probably is to continue the process it seems to have already started: sell itself or fully license its patents to competitors.

Nokia doesn't really have a USP but RIM's secure messaging system still gives it a loyal customer base doesn't it? Over here they are still popular with companies and the younger end of the phone market for precisely this reason. So much so in fact that during the riots the police specifically targetted shutting down RIM's system to stop rioters coordinating across London.

I don't think it'll be easy for them to gain market share but they may not lose much more either if they carry on with their current systems.

[ioan]

Again you assume.

Taking the ICS update for a start, the release was staggered across different networks and for different phones. Even with the same network and the same phone my friends received their updates over a period of weeks and months, not at the same time.

Meanwhile I assume that normal security patches continue to be released. Is this an unfair assumption for someone as smart as you?

As I mention repeatedly the nature of the update isn't given and if you don't update further updates are blocked including security patches.

So how can I assume that the update I've been given MUST be ICS because its kind of being rolled out across my network over the whole year?


Nowadays if you do not find something on the internet then it pretty much never happened, this is not an assumption it is the power of what billions of people can achieve when they share what they know in what we call the World Wide Web.

Every piece of released software, be it for Android, iOS, Windows, BB etc is analyzed by people who are interested and they always publish their findings on specialty forums, and this is not an assumption it is a fact.

Now, we can blame Apple, Google, Samsung, Nokia etc for our shortcomings and sky high expectation, but that won't solve the issues that we could solve ourselves by doing the right thing.



Perhaps I'm lazy in looking up the exact nature of what kind of update might be around, but do you think that it is good practice for updates to be pushed onto customers without informing them what it might be? A simple "the latest update for your phone (OS ICS update) is available, would you like to download?" would suffice. Thats all it takes. Its poor service that they can't even do that. Odd because every other phone OS supplier seems to find it easy.

Now since you're so intelligent tell me which other clever companies operate their update systems this way. This isn't about getting things on a silver plate. Its about expecting industry norms of customer 'service'.

Who did that? I never had any update installed on my Samsung tab without being asked and given the name/number of the upgrade package.

[ioan]

yes, thanks ioan, I'd already got that far here Sony Xperia S mit Vertrag T-Mobile D1 Vodafone D2 E-Plus o2 BASE Vertragsverlängerung ohne Vertrag (http://www.handy-deutschland.de/sony-xperia-s.html) :p

I mean is it crap like Apple/Samsung or great like Apple/Samsung or something in between like HTC ? :bandit:

Is it recommended by yuz experts or is it more a bit of a "Nokia" ? :andrea:


btw it's not for me, it's for donkito :s :dozey:

I've never bought a Sony phone to be honest.
In the past Erricson was making good quality phones, but since they became Sony Erricson I didn't hear good things about them.
Give it a search and see what user say about it, user reviews are much more reliable than the ones done by specialty magazines and paid for by Sony.

You could ask Donkito to do the research himself and see what he thinks about it, he'll have to use it after all.

[Malbec]

Who did that? I never had any update installed on my Samsung tab without being asked and given the name/number of the upgrade package.

After three or four posts repeating the same point you FINALLY get it. Well done.

I'm on a major British mobile phone network running an HTC and as I've said several times the details of the upgrade are not given to me. Shame that it took this long for you to finally understand what I've been saying.

[donKey jote]

You could ask Donkito to do the research himself and see what he thinks about it, he'll have to use it after all.

That was the one he'd researched after interpreting our faces when he mentioned iPhones or SIII's ... no need for a teenager to have the Top of the Range model in our old fashioned view :p
I just wanted to seek some advice from the experts. ;)

However, he just came in on his way up to his room and informed me the Xperia V is coming out soon, in time for Christmas :dozey: :p

[ioan]

That was the one he'd researched after interpreting our faces when he mentioned iPhones or SIII's ... no need for a teenager to have the Top of the Range model in our old fashioned view :p
I just wanted to seek some advice from the experts. ;)

However, he just came in on his way up to his room and informed me the Xperia V is coming out soon, in time for Christmas :dozey: :p

I still have a Nokia 1100 in good shape, I actually use it when I visit customers who won't allow me in with a smart phone with camera, it would be a good starting point for a first phone!
I'm just kidding. ;)

PS: If the Sony is what he wants and the price is acceptable for you, then let him have it this way there is no complaining later.

[Malbec]

I just wanted to seek some advice from the experts. ;)

Can't say I'm an expert but I had the original Xperia X1 and I've followed Sony since then from a distance.

I think you should wait a few months after release then look at the reviews. My X1 was touted as the iPhone 1 killer before it was released. All I can say is it was the first and only phone I counted down the days till I could replace it. Apart from as a handheld hammer it was not fit for any purpose whatsoever (though it was built like a tank luckily).

Since then they seem to get a lot of pre-release hype that isn't born out by the actual product like the Playstation capable phone that could only play a limited number of ancient games. So I'd wait a bit and anyway patience is a virtue (or so I hear).

[Daniel]

That was the one he'd researched after interpreting our faces when he mentioned iPhones or SIII's ... no need for a teenager to have the Top of the Range model in our old fashioned view :p
I just wanted to seek some advice from the experts. ;)

However, he just came in on his way up to his room and informed me the Xperia V is coming out soon, in time for Christmas :dozey: :p

Tell him he's getting a Lumia 820 :p

[Daniel]

After three or four posts repeating the same point you FINALLY get it. Well done.

I'm on a major British mobile phone network running an HTC and as I've said several times the details of the upgrade are not given to me. Shame that it took this long for you to finally understand what I've been saying.

This is the one big issue with Android, the fragmentation in terms of updates.

What updates you get over the lifetime of your phone depend on whether the manufacture wants to allow it and whether your network allows it as well.

This is one big advantage that iOS and Windows Phones have. I think with iOS Apple has complete control over the updates and the same is true with Windows Phones although a carrier can choose to delay or even skip one update but then when the next one comes out they're forced to give the user both updates anyway..... in practice no carriers seem to excessively delay any updates. Security updates go through without delay.

In addition to this, when you do an update, Zune tells you the version number and gives you a rough explanation of what the update entails.

[Jag_Warrior]

Ummm OK, it took me 2 seconds to google "nokia cash reserves 2012" and find out that the situation is not quite as dire as some would like to suggest. The media loves to take dumps on anyone who isn't Apple.

You should probably tell Stephen Elop that, not me. I'm just commenting on stories that are being reported.

Nokia sells off assets for cash (http://businesstech.co.za/news/mobile/19757/nokia-sells-off-assets-for-cash/)


Last month, Nokia reported a 1.53 billion-euro ($1.9 billion) loss for the second quarter. It burned some 700 million euros of cash in the quarter and ended June with net cash of 4.2 billion euros.

When I see a company burning through its cash because of losses and then having to sell assets to replenish cash, I know very well that that game cannot go on forever. To think otherwise is simply wishful thinking. It is what it is...


I'm sorry, but can I have some of what you're smoking? The Lumia 920 will likely eclipse the iPhone 5 in every single sense hardware wise. The reason why it's not seen as competitive is because it's not called an iPhone and it's not allied with an OS which is yet to be a runaway success. In fact I'm sure that if the iPhone 5 was just an original iPhone in a different colour then it would sell more than the Lumia 920 will. So you've got to ask yourself what the problem is and whether Nokia (at this point in time with decent product) is at fault or whether people will just buy whatever Apple peddles.

I'm not here to celebrate the fall of Nokia. I bought a Nokia phone for my mother and it's been a decent device for her. As for why its phones have not caught on, I don't know why. Speculation is fine, but if the answer was that easy, then Nokia probably wouldn't be facing the hurdles that it is. In my mind, phones are like any other product: consumers pick some models or brands over others. It may have to do with marketing, quality, features, price or other factors. But being very late to the game of smartphones and then coming out with devices that haven't exactly wowed the market certainly plays into it. One can't blame consumers for not supporting Nokia (vs. Apple, etc.), since consumers have no obligation to support them or anyone else.

From the reviews I've read, the new Lumia is a very good phone. But so are a lot of other phones out there. So now that most smartphone consumers have already chosen other brands and operating systems, what reason is Nokia (or Microsoft) giving them to switch to a different brand and ecosystem? If Nokia can come up with a good answer to that question, they may succeed. If they cannot come up with a good answer and generate some sales, they will likely go under within the next couple of years... short of a cash infusion or some other financial strategy to stay afloat. That's just life.

[Daniel]

My phone will install two updates at once and doesn't allow me to pick one over the other. If I choose not to install an update, it will be waiting on the phone forever and I wouldn't be able to install the next update with the previous still pending

Not to be rude Henners, but you don't seem to grasp the issue at hand here. Updates with phones don't work like they do with Windows Update, you can't pick or choose what you want.

Wanting to install (version numbers made up) 11.5 but not 11.4 is like trying to put tiles on the roof of a house when you haven't actually got the roof framework up yet. It don't work that way. Think of it like a service pack for windows, you can't install service pack 2 and 3 on an original copy of XP until you've put SP1 on. It just doesn't work like that.

I know that Ioan perhaps isn't saying things in the nicest or most polite manner, but he's right.

One thing you mention which is yet anther strength for iOS and Windows Phone is the hardware specs. With Windows Phone 7 there is a minimum hardware spec which runs very nicely, iPhones of course are all equal in terms of specifications (comparing the same generation of course) so there are no widespread issues in terms of performance whereas a manufacturer of an Android handset can chuck any old components in the phone and the users may be left with a less than ideal level of performance. Android also has to cater to a variety of different types of hardware whereas iOS and Windows Phone are created for a very specific subset of hardware and screen resolutions and so on. That's why, even with flagship phones like the GS3, people can complain about slowdowns, whereas my Lumia 800 is far less powerful yet is always buttery smooth.

[Jag_Warrior]

Nokia doesn't really have a USP but RIM's secure messaging system still gives it a loyal customer base doesn't it? Over here they are still popular with companies and the younger end of the phone market for precisely this reason. So much so in fact that during the riots the police specifically targetted shutting down RIM's system to stop rioters coordinating across London.

I don't think it'll be easy for them to gain market share but they may not lose much more either if they carry on with their current systems.

Yeah, I think they still have something of a loyal customer base, especially in some government and corporate circles. The problem RIM seems to be having is that the loyal base is continuing to shrink. They keep experiencing delays in getting out BlackBerry 10 software and devices. That's causing customers and developers to find other options, unless there is a real and specific need for BBM. But yeah, that is the one thing that RIM has. But during and after their most recent corporate shake-up this year, they began having talks with investment banks JPMorgan-Chase and RBC Capital about "strategic options". Whenever the company that I'm working for announces that it is exploring strategic options and I begin seeing investment bankers slithering around the company headquarters, I usually begin updating my resume... because that's seldom a sign of good things to come. "Exploring strategic options" is usually just a less direct way of putting the For Sale sign on the door.

RIM's BlackBerry will probably continue to be popular among a certain set. The question seems to be, is that loyal group of remaining customers enough to make the business viable? It looks kind of iffy.

BTW, I saw a RIM Playbook a few weeks ago and played around with it. As much of a dud as it turned out to be, as I used it, I kept thinking how it probably would have been a neat device to have if RIM had fully developed it before launching it. But from what RIM has said since that debacle, it's going to pretty much focus on the business and enterprise market, not so much on consumers.

[Daniel]

You should probably tell Stephen Elop that, not me. I'm just commenting on stories that are being reported.

Nokia sells off assets for cash (http://businesstech.co.za/news/mobile/19757/nokia-sells-off-assets-for-cash/)



When I see a company burning through its cash because of losses and then having to sell assets to replenish cash, I know very well that that game cannot go on forever. To think otherwise is simply wishful thinking. It is what it is...



I'm not here to celebrate the fall of Nokia. I bought a Nokia phone for my mother and it's been a decent device for her. As for why its phones have not caught on, I don't know why. Speculation is fine, but if the answer was that easy, then Nokia probably wouldn't be facing the hurdles that it is. In my mind, phones are like any other product: consumers pick some models or brands over others. It may have to do with marketing, quality, features, price or other factors. But being very late to the game of smartphones and then coming out with devices that haven't exactly wowed the market certainly plays into it. One can't blame consumers for not supporting Nokia (vs. Apple, etc.), since consumers have no obligation to support them or anyone else.

From the reviews I've read, the new Lumia is a very good phone. But so are a lot of other phones out there. So now that most smartphone consumers have already chosen other brands and operating systems, what reason is Nokia (or Microsoft) giving them to switch to a different brand and ecosystem? If Nokia can come up with a good answer to that question, they may succeed. If they cannot come up with a good answer and generate some sales, they will likely go under within the next couple of years... short of a cash infusion or some other financial strategy to stay afloat. That's just life.

Did you actually read the story you linked to? The selling off of Qt isn't described in that article as a firesale or selling off the family jewels, it's simply a part of the business that doesn't really fit with their new direction and they did what any sensible company would have done and sold it off.

Windows Phone 8 was always on the horizon so all Nokia could hope for was to get some nice product out the door and earn some kudos for that, and the Lumia 800 and 900 are nice products, and then deliver something really good for WP8.

Microsoft aren't going to let Nokia go down if they think there's any chance of Windows Phone going on to be successful, if it looks like it's going down then I'm sure they'll ditch Nokia like that. Just remember the patent wars are going on and Windows Phone, with all the patents that Microsoft hold, represents a safehaven for manufacturers against Apple.

My old Samsung Omnia 7 probably looks more like an iPhone than any of the handsets that Apple took Samsung to court over yet for some reason Apple haven't made any noise over it or tried to get sales of it banned ;) Funny that. Just remember that Apple gets a lot of money from networks as well on each sale, Microsoft isn't nearly as greedy so the networks do have some reason to push alternatives to the iPhone.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/omnia7hero10192010.jpg
iClone much? ;)

It's all to play for and seeing Nokia selling a part of their company that doesn't make sense anymore shouldn't be interpreted as the titanic hitting an iceberg just yet.....

You also said that Nokia's launch this week was uninpressive, what features do you feel that other handset makers have, should have been announced in the 920? By all accounts the camera is fantastic (though perhaps not quite a DSLR ;) ), it's got wireless charging which a lot of people are going to like, it's got NFC and it's got LTE so I don't quite see what else they could have done to wow people.

[Jag_Warrior]

Did you actually read the story you linked to? The selling off of Qt isn't described in that article as a firesale or selling off the family jewels, it's simply a part of the business that doesn't really fit with their new direction and they did what any sensible company would have done and sold it off.

Who said it was a firesale? Who said it was the selling off of the family jewels? But yes, I actually read the entire article - including this part:

To halt losses Nokia unveiled a massive restructuring program in June, including cutting 10,000 jobs and said it plans to divest non-core assets.

Last month, Nokia reported a 1.53 billion-euro ($1.9 billion) loss for the second quarter. It burned some 700 million euros of cash in the quarter and ended June with net cash of 4.2 billion euros.

The value of the deal in which Nokia will divest Qt software to Digia was not disclosed, but analysts estimated it was a fraction of the $150 million Nokia paid for Qt’s then-owner Norway’s Trolltech in 2008.

Nowhere did I say that it was an unwise move. In fact, it seems that it was a necessary move, even at a loss. You may not think this is a Titanic moment, but ask yourself this basic math question: with 4.2 billion Euros in reserve, how many quarters can a company continue to fund operations if it continues posting 1.5 billion Euro quarterly losses and burning through 700 million Euros of cash per quarter?

The next quarterly results will be coming out soon. Nokia doesn't necessarily have to begin posting profits by the end of the FY. But they most certainly do have to find some way to stem these losses.



You also said that Nokia's launch this week was uninpressive, what features do you feel that other handset makers have, should have been announced in the 920? By all accounts the camera is fantastic (though perhaps not quite a DSLR ;) ), it's got wireless charging which a lot of people are going to like, it's got NFC and it's got LTE so I don't quite see what else they could have done to wow people.

At least initially, I believe I said that was the market's reaction to the announcement: Nokia Shares Fall 16% After Lumia Release Disappoints Investors (http://www.moneynews.com/InvestingAnalysis/Nokia-Shares-Lumia-stock/2012/09/05/id/450866)

I had no personal reaction, as NOK isn't a stock that I trade. I did buy some RIMM puts earlier in the year and that worked out well. But NOK is now in "penny stock" territory and it's too volatile to predict short term movements.


As for what Nokia should have offered, that would have made a bigger/better splash... as I already stated:


From the reviews I've read, the new Lumia is a very good phone. But so are a lot of other phones out there. So now that most smartphone consumers have already chosen other brands and operating systems, what reason is Nokia (or Microsoft) giving them to switch to a different brand and ecosystem? If Nokia can come up with a good answer to that question, they may succeed. If they cannot come up with a good answer and generate some sales, they will likely go under within the next couple of years... short of a cash infusion or some other financial strategy to stay afloat. That's just life.

[Mark]

This is the one big issue with Android, the fragmentation in terms of updates.

What updates you get over the lifetime of your phone depend on whether the manufacture wants to allow it and whether your network allows it as well.

This is one big advantage that iOS and Windows Phones have. I think with iOS Apple has complete control over the updates and the same is true with Windows Phones although a carrier can choose to delay or even skip one update but then when the next one comes out they're forced to give the user both updates anyway..... in practice no carriers seem to excessively delay any updates. Security updates go through without delay.

In addition to this, when you do an update, Zune tells you the version number and gives you a rough explanation of what the update entails.

That was the big problem with Nokia's of old. Updates were carrier dependent. They would usually authorise one and them no more.

[Daniel]

I don't think you have read the trail of posts concerning this particular conversation Daniel. Not being able to pick and choose updates is exactly the point I was making in response to ioan. He said we have the choice not to install every update and he in fact doesn't install more than 10% of the updates that come through for his Samsung Tab and Blackberry phone. I'll quote him for reference:

See Daniel? It was me who was suggesting you can't just pick and choose what you install. When an update is available on Android, you have to trust that because the manufacturer has tried, tested it, and authorized it for release, it should be good. If ioan has managed to pick and choose updates, I'm sure you'll will be as interested as I am to discover how he does this and by-passes such a thing? If you read back you'll see I made my point pretty clear.

What you mention here is a point I have debated on numerous times and been hit with a wall of opposition. I've argued that there are so many phones in the Android range that often the OS doesn't suit the hardware spec's available on devices. If Windows phones are anything like iOS as you say, then its a strong feature they have over Android in regards to stability. iOS is only released for one particular phone and is stable as a result. Its tested and written for one single spec and runs seemlessly, with no lag, freezes, and a fluid user experience. With a limited number of Windows phones available in comparison to Android, I suppose they are able to maximize performance based on the hardware available. We appear to have agreed on two points even if you didn't realize the first lol. :)

Apologies if I read your post wrong.

With Windows Phone 7 devices, they only run on Qualcomm Snapdragon chips so much like the iPhone, you're only really supporting one family of hardware so it's easy for the OS to run nice and smoothly and there is a minimum standard for the processor so no matter what Windows Phone handset you choose, you will get a quick phone. Go into a shop and you could walk out with an Android phone which is perhaps not the quickest. With a windows phone, no matter how cheap it is you're guaranteed a certain level of performance. Obviously with an iPhone it'll be quick too, but it'll cost you....

[Daniel]

BBC News - Viewpoint: Apple's iPhone launches no longer excite (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19557497)


More important, is this really the best we can expect from an outfit that claims to be the most innovative company in the world? This is the sixth version of the iPhone, and the user interface still looks almost exactly like the original iPhone in 2007.

The hardware on the iPhone has been the same for two years, since the iPhone 4 and 4S were virtually identical.

Now, having had two years to plot and scheme, Apple's renowned designer Jonathan Ive has replaced the tiny 3.5in (8.9cm) screen with a slightly-less-tiny 4in (10.2cm) screen? Wow. Knock me over with a feather. What do you do with the rest of your time, Jony?

This is what happens when a company is too cheap to invest in research and development. Did you know that Apple spends far less on R&D than any of its rivals - a paltry 2% of revenues, versus 14% for Google and Microsoft?

No wonder the Android platform, where new models appear every week, now represents 68% of the smartphone market, up from 47% a year ago, while Apple slid to 17% over the same period.

In case you're bad at math, let me work that out for you: Android's market share is now four times that of Apple. Four times!

You can't go along forever only investing a tiny bit of your revenue and expect to stay ahead (or behind or wherever Apple are) of your rivals.

I will wet myself with delight if the iPhone 5 gets a soft reception and starts to lose Apple marketshare going forward. Hell, the rather un-revolutionary 4S has already lost them marketshare in the US.

[Big Ben]

There are two big ways when it comes to getting in front of the competition in terms in innovation. One is to push yourself in front of them through an efficient R&D department. The other is to push the competition behind you, with more focus on the legal department. As a smart consumer, as I like to consider myself, I just love Apple's approach.

[Daniel]

Dan Lyons has never been Apples biggest fan and the article is his viewpoint as a blog author. It's nice to have a personal view on this, but this is not the view of the BBC and that is made clear. The 4S is still the biggest selling smartphone to date with 100 million units sold, but suffered a slump between June and August due to the S3 being released. We will see what the launch of the new iphone brings of course.

Yes, but he's right.......

[Mark]

No innovation. In a word: boring.

[J4MIE]

Looks OK I guess. Dare I ask how much it will cost? :s

[Dave B]

So Apple have released a slightly faster version of the Galaxy 2. LTE is nice but not unique, everything else is just playing catch-up.

[ioan]

Innovation my arse. Exactly as expected!

[Daniel]

Innovation my arse. Exactly as expected!

Apple's Phil Schiller explains new 'Lightning' port, doesn't think much of NFC and wireless charging -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apples-phil-schiller-explains-new-lightning-port-doesnt-thi/)



Schiller also explained the reason for the iPhone 5's new "Lightning" port, which allows for faster data transfer between phone and computer, but also requires an adapter ($29) for use with Apple's previous wire standard. Apparently Apple's future lineup would be impossible without the new connecter, according to Schiller. He attempted to assuage concerned consumers with one hopeful promise: "This is the new connector for many years to come."
And finally, when pressed on wireless charging -- a main feature of Nokia's flagship Windows Phone 8 device, the Lumia 920 (http://www.engadget.com/tag/lumia920) -- Schiller said such a feature offers little to consumers beyond confusion. "Having to create another device you have to plug into the wall is actually, for most situations, more complicated," he said. As per usual, the iPhone 5 will charge via USB -- using the new dock connector, of course. But surely, turning a bunch of cables into just one giant wireless charging plate aligns well with Apple's simplicity design, right?


Now now Ioan! At least they haven't complicated things with wireless charging or NFC. I must admit it confuses the crap out of me when I go to McDonalds and pay for my meal by presenting the card to the reader rather than putting the card in the card reader, waiting for it to accept the card, put my pin in and then come back saying my pin is fine. Don't get me started on the wireless charging that comes with the Lumia 920, how confusing is that?!?!?!?!? Almost as confusing as using an induction hob in a kitchen I would imagine.

The contempt that Apple show for the customers is amazing!!!!! I'm sorry, but a chimp could probably get the hang of wireless charging and NFC............ Are they trying to say that their customers are dumb? Make up a reason, say that you felt that it would make the phone fat at least. Don't make out that things which simplify life immensely are actually complications.

The new connector means a steady stream of money to Apple from people who buy an iPhone 5 and want it to work with all the docks and things they've bought. People will think twice about getting a better and cheaper phone when they've spent far too much on some overpriced dock. But the 20 something dollar charge for an adaptor is going to piss a lot of people off, which is a good thing.

Look for Apple to put these features in the 5s or 6 or whatever they call their next phone that I still won't buy :)

I think this is a great launch :) Apple needed to step up to the plate and deliver something that matched the GS3 and Lumia 920 and they failed badly :) The zealots and sheep will buy it as always, but a lot of people will struggle to see why they should spend more for less than they'll get with one of the above hero phones.

[Mark]

With anything you have to look and pros and cons. For me bigger screen, faster processor are good. But there's nothing else except the massive disadvantage of the changed dock connector.

I was hoping for a wow factor. It was completely absent :( .

Not saying I wouldn't buy one eventually ;) . But the sensible thing to do would he to continue with my 4S at least until the 5S is out.

[Mark]

They will sell a lot because it's iPhone. But at this point Apple are relying on that. Just as Nokia hoped they could put out any old tat and people would buy it because of the name.

[J4MIE]

Time to look out for a cheap 64gb 4S.... :)

[pino]

Go for it Jamie ;)

[Big Ben]

Just out of curiosity I've checked the current prices for a 4S on my carrier's website, of course, the iphone5 discount for the 4S didn't kick in yet, I think, but nevertheless... with a 35 euro per month plan the phones comes at 289 euros... and for a 22 euro plan the price is 500 euros :laugh: ... how is that possible? even for a 85 euro plan the price is 179... I guess prices must be different in the first world...

[Daniel]

They did appear to hold back on certain features in comparison to the competiton, but it all boils down to whether these features are something you think you will miss? Personally me me no. I was worried about the changed dock connector as I have a Bose iPod dock, but the release of the connector puts that worry to sleep for me. I liked the design of the phone and glad it hasn't differed too much from the iPhone 4, whereas this will be a negative for the non Apple fans. I don't feel this release has gone badly as some would like to suggest, and can see Apple selling a lot of units as they always do. Its a nice phone alround IMO, and we'll just have to see how much the carriers are going to charge in order for you to get one. :)

Appear to?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Come on! They took one of the killer features of the Lumia 920 and made out that they were somehow an inconvenience. I mean seriously, if Apple had come up with a dock that allowed you to charge without a cable and play music through a dock without a cable or having to dock then that would be considered groundbreaking and would be THE must have feature for all phones.

I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't think that this is an extremely smart idea is just kidding themselves.
Nokia Lumia 920's pairs up to JBL PowerUp Wireless Charging Speaker with NFC - Pocket-lint (http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47344/nokia-lumia-920-nfc-jbl-speakers-headphones)

http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/images/HtcW/nokia-lumia-920-nfc-jbl-speakers-headphones-1.jpg

For Apple to come along and say that wireless charging is confusing (you can still charge with a cable) when it's exactly the sort of fuss free technology that they're meant to be behind.

Apple appeases European lawmakers with Lightning-to-microUSB adapter -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/13/apple-lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter/)

Apple have also been forced by the EC to release an adaptor so you can use a microusb cable with iPhones...... But you have to pay for it and it's another thing to carry around so no one in their right mind would buy one.

This comment says it all "Lightning to microUSB adapters because wireless charging is too complicated."



They will sell a lot because it's iPhone. But at this point Apple are relying on that. Just as Nokia hoped they could put out any old tat and people would buy it because of the name.

Yeah, that worked really good for Nokia too!

[DonJippo]

Not saying I wouldn't buy one eventually ;) .

And when you buy one you need to get a new SIM card as well because 5S uses new nano-sim-cards so if you have some data on your current SIM card that you want to keep it needs to be moved to other storage first.

[pino]

How nice is to see so many good old friends posting again... Oh wait, there are only here to bash Apple lol :p :

:wave: ;)

[Daniel]

How nice is to see so many good old friends posting again... Oh wait, there are only here to bash Apple lol :p :

:wave: ;)
Well, someone has to open people's eyes up I guess :) :wave:

[DonJippo]

No innovation. In a word: boring.

Others feel the same EDITORIAL: Why did the iPhone 5 skimp on true innovation? - GSMArena Blog (http://blog.gsmarena.com/editorial-does-the-iphone-5-lack-true-innovation/)

[Daniel]

Others feel the same EDITORIAL: Why did the iPhone 5 skimp on true innovation? - GSMArena Blog (http://blog.gsmarena.com/editorial-does-the-iphone-5-lack-true-innovation/)

As always Apple will innovate when the technology has been out for a while. Holding back features has worked for Apple so far, but it's two years now since they really changed anything and you can sit virtually still for that long.

[pino]

Daniel you need to try harder to open my eyes, but I appreciate your effort ;)

:p :

[Daniel]

Daniel you need to try harder to open my eyes, but I appreciate your effort ;)

:p :

You will come around eventually :)

[pino]

You will come around eventually :)

Being a Nokia's fanboy for years...all dipends on them ;)

[Daniel]

Being a Nokia's fanboy for years...all dipends on them ;)

Lumia 920 completely eclipses the iPhone 5 :) All the important Apps are on Windows Phone already and more will come to WP8.

[Mark]

The problem for current iPhone owners is that it is worse. Because none of your current chargers will work. I have 5 that I can think of.

[Daniel]

In that case Nokia and Microsoft have nothing to worry about. The Lumia will replace the iPhone as most iconic and desired phone and Apple will walk away and lick their wounds. Time will tell of course, but I don't think its a disappointment to be quite honest. I liked the 4S and this appears to be an improved version with a bigger screen. Its not got worse so its still desirable to me. :)

Thing is henners, you know that's not going to happen, you're very aware of the fact that Apple could have launched something virtually identical to the 4s and people would have still bought millions of them due to just being plain ignorant and fanboyish. Specs and quality have little to do with it these days. An iPhone for most people carries an aura with it and that's enough for most people. I'm under no illusions that Nokia's Windows Phone lineup will outsell the iPhone 5, but objectively you'll be getting more for your money and you'll be getting something more futureproof. But Apple are all for planned obselescence anyway.....

[Mark]

I wouldn't say that. After all Apple have only just stopped selling the 3GS which came out in 2009. Yet it is still getting iOS 6. As a 4S owner I can expect OS upgrades for a long time yet.

[Malbec]

Thing is henners, you know that's not going to happen, you're very aware of the fact that Apple could have launched something virtually identical to the 4s and people would have still bought millions of them due to just being plain ignorant and fanboyish. Specs and quality have little to do with it these days. An iPhone for most people carries an aura with it and that's enough for most people. I'm under no illusions that Nokia's Windows Phone lineup will outsell the iPhone 5, but objectively you'll be getting more for your money and you'll be getting something more futureproof. But Apple are all for planned obselescence anyway.....

Most people who buy smartphones of any sort are ignorant so I don't understand why Apple purchasers are any different. I have been a loyal Android user but I'll happily admit I am ignorant as to how my phone or OS really stacks up against its direct rivals or what features it has. I don't think most aspects of the technical specs are important to attract 90% of customers except screensize/resolution, memory size and camera resolution. The most important aspect are about branding, looks and price. Cost is ultimately why Android outsells Apple, the handsets and contracts are cheaper. Talk about profitability though and Apple wins hands down.

This new iPhone is clearly nothing special and leaves a lot of room for the iPhone 5S to improve on. I do think its a dangerous move for Apple as I can see this phone becoming obsolete on the technical front very quickly and there is nothing that (to my untrained eyes) is interesting or is a new USP.

The Apple brand is probably strong enough to survive one or two damp squibs like this but the followup had better be eyepoppingly advanced if it is to retain market share IMO. Thats the problem that comes with being the market leader in terms of individual phone manufacturers.

I suspect that Apple have performed a lot of market research that tells them that people value the Apple brand for things like user friendliness, seamless integration between soft and hardware and style rather than pure technical superiority and gadgetry which is why the iPhone 5 is disappointing on the technical front. However such an approach is unlikely to win them many conquest sales from Android especially if they also don't add a cheaper option to their iPhone range. I find that omission the biggest missing factor in the Apple range, when they released the flagship iPod they quickly added less capable but much cheaper versions which sold very well, surely the same business model has potential for the iPhone.

[Daniel]

The problem for current iPhone owners is that it is worse. Because none of your current chargers will work. I have 5 that I can think of.

Well, you can either buy 5 adaptors at £25 each :)

Lightning to 30-pin Adapter - Apple Store (UK) (http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD823/lightning-to-30-pin-adapter)

Rather a sleek and elegant solution don't you think?

*Video out and iPod out not supported *snigger*

[Daniel]

Most people who buy smartphones of any sort are ignorant so I don't understand why Apple purchasers are any different. I have been a loyal Android user but I'll happily admit I am ignorant as to how my phone or OS really stacks up against its direct rivals or what features it has. I don't think most aspects of the technical specs are important to attract 90% of customers except screensize/resolution, memory size and camera resolution. The most important aspect are about branding, looks and price. Cost is ultimately why Android outsells Apple, the handsets and contracts are cheaper. Talk about profitability though and Apple wins hands down.

This new iPhone is clearly nothing special and leaves a lot of room for the iPhone 5S to improve on. I do think its a dangerous move for Apple as I can see this phone becoming obsolete on the technical front very quickly and there is nothing that (to my untrained eyes) is interesting or is a new USP.

The Apple brand is probably strong enough to survive one or two damp squibs like this but the followup had better be eyepoppingly advanced if it is to retain market share IMO. Thats the problem that comes with being the market leader in terms of individual phone manufacturers.

I suspect that Apple have performed a lot of market research that tells them that people value the Apple brand for things like user friendliness, seamless integration between soft and hardware and style rather than pure technical superiority and gadgetry which is why the iPhone 5 is disappointing on the technical front. However such an approach is unlikely to win them many conquest sales from Android especially if they also don't add a cheaper option to their iPhone range. I find that omission the biggest missing factor in the Apple range, when they released the flagship iPod they quickly added less capable but much cheaper versions which sold very well, surely the same business model has potential for the iPhone.

There's ignorant and paying over the odds then there's ignorant and buying something which suits your needs and which is quite cheap :)

[J4MIE]

As a former disappointed Android user I have no desire to go back to it, getting an iPhone was one of the best decisions I've ever made! After buying quite a few apps, it would mean hassle and expense switching away again which is another reason to stick with it.

Can't think what else I would need in a phone TBH :)

[Malbec]

Daniel I'm curious. On another thread you linked Apple to deaths at Foxconn and said that they were responsible. Yet you're touting Nokias as being a suitable alternative. These are also made by Foxconn. Are you not concerned about Nokia's manufacturing ethics?

[Malbec]

As a former disappointed Android user I have no desire to go back to it, getting an iPhone was one of the best decisions I've ever made! After buying quite a few apps, it would mean hassle and expense switching away again which is another reason to stick with it.

Can't think what else I would need in a phone TBH :)

I have to say that if the iPhone is reasonably priced I will be tempted to dump Android for it regardless of the spec purely based on the stability of the device. I will also be looking at Windows based phones but they are going to have to be very very good to stop me switching.

[J4MIE]

As I am not far into a 24 month contract I would have to buy an unlocked one - £529 for 16Gb, £629 for 32Gb and £699 for 64Gb apparently. Even so, after my relocation with work I may still be tempted.

[Andrewmcm]

I always thought that Daniel and objectivity when it came to Apple were mutually exclusive, but I suppose we all learn something new every day.

Smartphones (and tablets) ceased to be solely about hardware a long time ago. It is software and the user-experience that matters now. Long gone are the days when people would happily tinker with settings as a hobby on their digital device. People now use smartphones/computers/tablets like a common-day kettle/fridge/any other day electrical device, and they want the user experience to be seamless. Apple's ecosystem does this rather well.

I'm sure the iPhone 5 will sell particularly well indeed. Perhaps the new Nokia does have higher-spec hardware. How much people like the operating system and interface will decide which one comes out on top.

The fact of the matter is that producing successful devices leads to diminishing returns. There is surely an optimal design for any generation of device, and trying to better that hardware in successive devices must be incredibly difficult.

[Mark]

Are you going to be totally loaded like? Interesting ;)

[DanicaFan]

I only buy Motorola cell phones.

[J4MIE]

Are you going to be totally loaded like? Interesting ;)

New laptop, new bike, new iPad, possibly new phone, paid for by my employers = winner :up:

THEN I will be skint ;)

[ioan]

Well, someone has to open people's eyes up I guess :) :wave:

Actually you've got that one wrong. Snobs don't like it when someone tells them that thy are doing something wrong. And let's face it about 90% of all Apple users are snobs.

[ioan]

I've said this many times. Android's strength is their hardware, but the compromise is the unstable OS.

Unstable?! Sure sure...

[Malbec]

Snobs don't like it when someone tells them that thy are doing something wrong.

In stark contrast to yourself of course ;)

[janneppi]

Most of the phone carriers are publishing their latest iPhone 5 deals this morning.

O2 are offering it for £26 p/m unlimited minutes, unlimited texts, 1 GB of data and a handset cost of £359 for the 32GB model. Its expensive, but apart from the outlay for the phone its a good contract IMO. Its effectively the price of a cheap Dell laptop which is fine by me. I know many of you will not agree with this, but I thought the tariffs would be hiked up a lot more by the carriers than they presently are.
Not familiar with UK contracts, is there a difference between getting a contract Iphone and getting unlocked Iphone and similarly specced data/phone plan over the two years time?

[pino]

Actually you've got that one wrong. Snobs don't like it when someone tells them that thy are doing something wrong. And let's face it about 90% of all Apple users are snobs.

I personally know many Apple users (Mark and Jamie among them) and I can garantee that they are far from being snob...ups you said about 90% not all of them, sorry :rolleyes:

[BleAivano]

I personally know many Apple users (Mark and Jamie among them) and I can garantee that they are far from being snob...ups you said about 90% not all of them, sorry :rolleyes:

you disappoint me Pino. :( I always thought that you were an Italian Vineyard billionaire. ;)

[Dave B]

O2 are offering it for £26 p/m unlimited O2 are offering it for £26 p/m unlimited minutes, unlimited texts, 1 GB of data and a minutes, unlimited texts, 1 GB of data and a handset cost of £359 for the 32GB model.
Is that a joke? I'm paying that for my S3 contract which had a free handset and 70 quid cashback, the only difference is a mere 1000 rather than unlimited texts.

[Dave B]

Correction: 28 quid per month. But still...

[Mark]

Without knowing the contract length those numbers are useless.

[Dave B]

24 months, as is pretty much standard now. If the iPhone contract is 12 months then that's probably a fair price, otherwise it's a ludicrous premium. Henners?

[Mark]

Be interesting to run the numbers to see how much that two year lock in is worth. i.e. 24 x monthly cost + phone cost compared with 24 x SIM only months and paying full price for the handset.

[Mark]

It's worth knowing that the iPhone 4G is only for EE (Orange & TMobile) only.

[Dave B]

Three hundred quid up front?! Some mistake surely. Even for a launch price that's insane. Hang on a few weeks until the hype has passed and I'm sure they'llbe giving them away.

[Mark]

Contract cost 2 years £983

sim only. 1 year contract £599 + 24*£20 = £480 = £1,079.

So you save roughly £100 over the 2 years.

Personally I'd rather pay the extra not to be tied in.

[Mark]

4G isn't following on other providers. O2 and Vodafone are deploying on frequencies incompatible with the iPhone 5.

[Dave B]

I've seen the 4S free on ~30 tariffs for months now.

[Dave B]

If you have any experience checking iPhone contracts in the past you'll realise that the handset prices remain around this level. My mate got the 4S in February and had to pay £200 towards his handset on a £36 p/m tariff!! He's tied into that for 2 years too. I am hanging on a few days as I also get £50.25 cashback on top of the offer price if I was to upgrade.
I think your mate got mugged: the 4S has been free on ~35 quid tarrifs for ages now.

[J4MIE]

I got my 4S for free on £36 a month with Vodafone in May.

[Jag_Warrior]

While some of the "usual suspects" are (of course) taking issue with Apple and the new iPhone, I admit that I'm not exactly wowed by the new features either. But these are typically the very same people who predicted the failure of the iPad and claimed that Apple's stock was overvalued at $250, $325, $400 and so on. :rolleyes: The larger screen is good. The faster processor is good. The lack of NFC doesn't really matter to most, because wide, practical uses for NFC are still quite limited - though in the future, I think/hope that utility will grow (being able to "swipe" a virtual credit card on a smartphone is the wave of the future, IMO). And from what I've read, iOS6 is going to be quite nice. But so far, I've read nothing which tempts me to dive into the smartphone market just yet. I will continue to use my now ancient "dumbphone" for at least another year - unless it finally dies. For me, there's just not enough there to compel me rush out and buy this phone. And though I think that this version will sell very well, I think the door is further opened for Samsung and others to take some share. No longer is it necessary to buy an iPhone to get above average quality, high specs and a broad array of apps. Maybe even Microsoft will get above Symbian in marketshare if they can convince more people to finally give WP8 a try - they might want to get that done before Nokia suffers deeper financial issues though... or maybe they can work more closely with Samsung, since Android/Google has caused them some heartburn.

As for how the iPhone 5 is doing so far, according to a report on Bloomberg, it sold out in the first hour online. And it's apparently already set a sales record. Additionally, the new iPod Touch and the iPod Nano have received positive receptions. This led to AAPL reaching record highs today, knocking on $700/share. This, I care about more than he specs of the newest phone. Whether I will buy one or not, it seems there is enough there that more than enough other consumers are buying them at a record pace.


“The initial batch is sold out,” said Shaw Wu, an analyst at Sterne Agee & Leach Inc., in an interview. He raised his sales estimate for the quarter ending in September to 26 million units, from 23 million. “We think that could turn out to be conservative.”


Apple didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.


While previous iPhone models sold out quickly online, “I don’t think it happened quite this fast,” said Tavis McCourt (http://topics.bloomberg.com/tavis-mccourt/), an analyst at Raymond James & Associates, in an interview. “The speed here is unusual.”


Mobile-service carriers AT&T Inc. (T) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/T:US), Sprint Nextel Corp. (S) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/S:US) and Verizon Wireless (http://topics.bloomberg.com/verizon-wireless/) have the iPhone available to pre-order with delivery by Sept. 21, according to the companies’ websites.
As many as 58 million units of the iPhone 5 may sell by the end of the year, according the average estimate of analysts surveyed by Bloomberg. That could generate as much as $36.2 billion in sales for Apple, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

[race aficionado]

I'm very happy with my 4S.
I will wait (as I always do) for the next iPhone to come. I went from the iphone 3 to the 4S, thus skipping the iphone 4. I will do the same with the iPhone 5
I've had this one for 1 year and I will continue to enjoy this during the next year to come.

I did buy myself a gift though, I purchased a new hard case for my phone that yes, makes it a bit heavier which I don't mind and I like the feel of it -and the best thing is that it has an emergency battery charger that has already helped me out in various occasions. It's called the morphie juice pack plus and I am a happy purchaser.
mophie juice pack air® - iPhone 4/4S rechargeable backup battery case (http://www.mophie.com/mophie-juice-pack-air-iPhone-4-4s-battery-case-p/1145_jpa-ip4-blk.htm?gclid=CIqBzq_YtrICFYTd4AodbAgA0g)

I don't drive a car so I can't charge my phone while I travel and this is a great solution. I have gotten accustomed to charge my phone every evening since I joined the fancy cell phone users club but even with a full battery I find myself using many applications during the day and they suck the battery life. I hate it when I'm out and about and my battery level is low (wrong thread?) :p Anyway, it's not happening again.

:s mokin:

[donKey jote]

This led to AAPL reaching record highs today, knocking on $700/share. This, I care about more than he specs of the newest phone.
^^this :up: :bandit:
I hedged my bets and got Apple, Samsung and Google. All three doing nicely :s mokin:

[Mark]

Not sure you understand. O2 and Vodafone may well be deploying 4G. However it WILL NOT WORK with the iPhone 5. Wrong frequencies.

[Mark]

race. I have this problem too. Particularly using GPS out on my bike. So I have a Mophie Powerstation. Although its broken now :( .

However switching off wifi 3G bluetooth helps. iOS really needs a power profiles option.

[Mark]

I don't care about 4G either. I'd much rather have a slow (maybe 512k) connection everywhere than fast in places and then nothing in the majority of places.

What's the point arguing over 50Mbit. When the majority of places can't exceed 0.01Mbit.

[Dave B]

This is about normal for out of 3G coverage:

Dave Brockman (BigBadDaveB) on Via.Me (http://via.me/-53xfjko)

[Dave B]

I moved away from O2 as in the south east their signal was good but data provision was a joke. I'm on orange now and very rarely have any problems.

[Mark]

Of course if you are at home then 3G coverage is going to be irrelevant. You only need a plain phone signal.

[J4MIE]

Out here in the sticks if not on wifi I only have GPRS which is painfully slow so I usually don't bother with it, I've noticed the same in some towns I've been in but 3G is a decent enough speed for me. Sort out more widespread coverage as Mark says - I'd far prefer that to 4G :)

[ioan]

I personally know many Apple users (Mark and Jamie among them) and I can garantee that they are far from being snob...ups you said about 90% not all of them, sorry :rolleyes:

That's why I said 90% and not 100%. Anyway why are you guys (henners, malbec and pino) so heated up, do you feel you are part of those 90%?

[Jag_Warrior]

^^this :up: :bandit:
I hedged my bets and got Apple, Samsung and Google. All three doing nicely :s mokin:

Clearly, this was a very savvy move! Kudos to you, sir! :up: It's not as if one of them has to lose, just because the others are (also) finding success. And in this case, I think all three of them are proving to be winners. They've all captured a solid place in the market and all are making products that have found their way into consumers' hearts and homes. Since the initial post in this thread, I feel that is the perspective that has been missing. In 2-3 years, I can't say with any confidence whether Nokia or RIM (in their current forms) will even be around. But I'm relatively certain that Apple, Samsung and Google will still be doing rather well. Microsoft (as a stock), who knows? But I certainly think the company will at least be slogging along... and maybe they'll finally get it right too. People have often tried to *create* reasons to explain away Apple's success, or made excuses to explain away the failures or stumbles of certain other companies. But the way I've always seen it, the kid who makes the A on a test understood the material and studied. The kid who made the F, well, excuses aside, he just didn't get the job done. Odd that the only ones who ever experience the dog eating their homework are the kids who typically make F's anyway though, eh? :D

Personally, I like the fact that Apple and Samsung are locked in a good fight. I really think that the products we'll get in the future will be enhanced because of that fierce competition.

Now, I'd just love for Apple (or somebody) to buy or partner with TiVo and give us something better than the ancient channel-surfing technology that viewers still have to deal with. Various music services and apps will go out and create playlists based on your past listening habits. But aside from the (barely) half decent job that TiVo does in recommending shows or movies, there's really nothing out there that I find all that compelling. For the most part, we still have to know what show we want to watch before we're able to watch it. Why hasn't the TV and movie industry embraced predictive, behavioral technology by now??? Maybe that's a question for another thread.

[J4MIE]

I have just joined the iPad owners club :)

[Mark]

Well done. iPad 2 or 3?

I've thought about getting one but they seem too big. I'm waiting for the iPad Mini.

[J4MIE]

3 - 64Gb, they only had them in black, would've preferred white but hey ho, will do the same inside.

My dad's had an iPad 2 for a while now and every time I've had a shot of it thought that I could do with one. Screen size seems ok to me.

[Mark]

None of them I would guess. But you can get a Kindle Fire for £130

[Malbec]

I've thought about getting one but they seem too big. I'm waiting for the iPad Mini.

One about a quarter of the size of the iPad with phone capability would be nice ;)

I'm with Vodaphone as good phone coverage is an absolute non-negotiable must for me and they've been the best network using that criteria. They have decent contracts available for 2 year so I might be able to negotiate a free iPhone 5 when it comes to upgrading my existing phone. It won't be any more expensive than getting an HTC for me.

[J4MIE]

Good phone signal has been important to me since a few years ago I was on Mull at the rally and, when attempting to call in sick to work (ahem) in my previous job, I didn't have any signal at all so couldn't :eek: That took some explaining :s

But I believe Vodafone has good coverage on Mull and all competitors must carry a mobile that uses Vodafone for use in case of emergency :up: Just a shame I couldn't use it then :p :

[airshifter]

I don't care about 4G either. I'd much rather have a slow (maybe 512k) connection everywhere than fast in places and then nothing in the majority of places.

What's the point arguing over 50Mbit. When the majority of places can't exceed 0.01Mbit.

Is this something unique to your location or the phone type? I have 4G LTE, but lacking a good 4G signal it gets a 3G signal. I don't think coverage is any different at all than if I still had a 3G phone??

I do agree the vast majority don't need 4G speeds, but they can fly at times. I've had download tests at over 21Mbps on a 4G connection. My wifi rarely does that!

[Mark]

I think it's just poor coverage in the North East of England. If I'm at home I get a full 3G signal - as I'm near the mast, however if I'm out cycling or geocaching anywhere which isn't built up, the signal is poor. I can usually get an ok phone signal for voice and text most places, but data is a big issue.

[Mark]

Guy in the office saw the iPhone 5 announcement and went straight out to buy a Samsung Galaxy S3. Have to say it looks really nice. I'd quite like one but changing OS would be a big deal. Nevermind keeping my 4S and not buying anything new would be the sensible route ;)

[Mark]

Don't believe it. After the iPhone 4 there was a rumour the iPhone 5 would be out soon. After the iPhone 4S there was a rumour the iPhone 5 would be out soon. Neither happened.

On the subject of iPhone 5 it seems to me Apple are currently running about a year behind. I think if Apple had released the iPhone 5 when they released the 4S then it would have gotten a much better reaction.

[Mark]

Don't just look at preorders. Apple could release turd covered cardboard and pre orders would still be massive.

[J4MIE]

Oh dear, I have the iPad and my laptop side by side on my desk, and no matter how hard I try, I can't scroll down a page on my laptop by swiping :bigcry:

[pino]

I'm not particularly techy but how does a dual core chip run faster than a quad core? I know in my line of work certain CAD software was recommended to run on dual core machines rather than quad core specs due to rendering being bogged down etc...

henners, buy me a flight-ticket with accomodation and I will visit you and explain it to you :p : ;)

[Mark]

Well the dual core chip could have cores which are faster than the individual cores on the quad core chip.

Also 4 cores doesn't mean 4 times as fast - at least not always. It just means the processor can be doing 4 things at once, as opposed to 2 things, but there's an overhead in task switching and communication etc, some programs just don't make use of doing things in parallel.

[race aficionado]

That Apple stock keeps on climbing . . . over $700.oo? - sheesh! I aint got none of them fancy stocks, heck I have no stocks.
That thing is all going to crash eventuallhy but for those :cool: fortunate Apple stock owners,(Jag :D ) here's to you: :beer:

[pino]

iOS6 arrived and installed on my S4...only a few bugs so far ;)

[Mark]

Got it too, Maps is much much much worse (as expected) all the rest is the same.

[Mark]

What is it about the maps people don't like out of curiosity? I know Tom Tom are supplying their mapping to improve the navigation element of things. Street view is missing which is a pain, but I can live without that until the alternative comes along.

Much less detail than google maps. No street view.

Much less information on road types. Google maps has the standard motorways in blue, primary A-roads in green, non-primary in red (orange), through routes in yellow and local roads in white - This is pretty much consistent to the way Ordnance Survey does things.

Whereas Apple maps has orange for motorways and dual carriageways - but not all dual carriageways! And white for the rest, meaning it's really difficult to find your way around.

It's a mistake that countless mapping providers have done, trying to colour in the roads the same colour across the world IT DOESN'T WORK, each country has it's own conventions, which should be respected.

[Mark]

Just need a google maps app, not having streetview is a big issue for me.

[race aficionado]

If all is the same - except the sucky new maps.... I shouldn't upgrade then.

[pino]

btw guys how the new native facebook app works now ? :confused:

[Mark]

btw guys how the new native facebook app works now ? :confused:

Just use the facebook app the same as before and don't worry on such matters ;)

I really really hate the maps now :bigcry:

[Andrewmcm]

Crikey, the new maps on iOS6 are from the Dark Ages. Let's hope Google release a maps application. Any suggestions for alternatives in the meantime?

[Dave B]

Genuine question: does the Google Maps website not just work on an iPhone - why do you necessarily have to have a dedicated app?

[race aficionado]

Steve Jobs, where art thou?

Pretty messy start - unfortunate for sure - but they will fix it. :s mash:

[Mark]

The app didn't provide navigation. And yes you can use it via the browser. But no streetview.

[Mark]

Henners. You are insane. They basically offered you £100 and you said no!!

[GridGirl]

Think about re-sale value. Plus, whatever colour or size it is your only going to cover it in a case of some description regardless. :s

[Dave B]

No problem: just stick in a 32GB memory card, they're about twenty quid.


Oh...


:p

[Dave B]

Polycarbonate on mine. Stronger and lighter than aluminium, which is best left for KitKat wrappers.

[Jag_Warrior]

That Apple stock keeps on climbing . . . over $700.oo? - sheesh! I aint got none of them fancy stocks, heck I have no stocks.
That thing is all going to crash eventuallhy but for those :cool: fortunate Apple stock owners,(Jag :D ) here's to you: :beer:

Thank you, sir. Right back at ya. :beer:

I think that AAPL will eventually reach a plateau, and may even decline if there is a negative sales or earnings surprise. A crash, I'm not so sure about. But sooner or later, I also think that the Law of Large Numbers will eventually catch up to Apple (and Samsung) when it comes to sales and profit growth... unless they enter into new markets and businesses. The same thing happened to Microsoft and the same thing could be happening to Google right now.

But for right now, things still look pretty good on the sales front: Apple Poised to Sell 10 Million iPhones in Record Debut (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-20/apple-poised-to-sell-10-million-iphones-in-record-debut)


Apple Inc. (AAPL (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=AAPL:US)) is poised for a record iPhone 5 debut and may not be able to keep up with demand as customers line up from Sydney to New York to pick up the latest model of its top-selling product (AAPL (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=AAPL:US)).

Because of when I bought most of my AAPL shares, I believe my dividend yield is somewhere above 10% - I should calculate that and know. But there's just no other place (growth stock) where I can get that sort of income return and share price appreciation, so it would take a pretty massive hit for me to sell... but I typically don't ride stocks on the way down either. I'm just not that emotional about any stock or any company. But in this case, I don't let 3-5% moves scare me either. Those have actually provided very good entry points to buy call options or adding to the long for another move upward.

Individual stocks can be very risky and dangerous to your wallet. Have you thought about mutual funds? There are sector funds and ETF's that might work for you.

[Mark]

I suppose it means Apple will have the last laugh about coming up with a rather average phone.

[Jag_Warrior]

I suppose it means Apple will have the last laugh about coming up with a rather average phone.

Possibly so. I'm not currently in the market for a smartphone (because none of them would do anything special for me, considering my current needs & wants). And as I mentioned previously, I'm not wowed by the iPhone 5's features either. But if Apple produces a phone which at least meets consumers' expectations, that is how a successful business wins the game. One missing feature is NFC. But what are the current practical uses of NFC anyway? If the NFC readers don't become widely available/installed in shops for another couple of years (if then), then why put that technology in a phone now?

I do like that Apple increased the screen size. And I'd say that matters to many who were hoping for that. But no, that's not so special because there are other phones that have 4" screens... but they don't run iOS. ;) But let's not forget that even as Apple will likely set sales records with this device, Samsung is doing quite well with its new SIII too. It's not a one horse race. So there can be several winners (although the losers are becoming more & more well known: RIM, Nokia, etc. - Yahoo just dumped RIM's BlackBerry as a phone that they'll pay for at corporate).

My hope is that some bored member of the Apple sales and marketing staff will take some time off from Apple and go over to IndyCar... and teach those poor fools how to successfully market that series. They can't even get an app produced or figure out how to get their website working consistently. Even an Apple trained intern would be better than what they have now. But I digress... :D

[BleAivano]

Thank you, sir. Right back at ya. :beer:

I think that AAPL will eventually reach a plateau, and may even decline if there is a negative sales or earnings surprise. A crash, I'm not so sure about. But sooner or later, I also think that the Law of Large Numbers will eventually catch up to Apple (and Samsung) when it comes to sales and profit growth... unless they enter into new markets and businesses. The same thing happened to Microsoft and the same thing could be happening to Google right now.

But for right now, things still look pretty good on the sales front: Apple Poised to Sell 10 Million iPhones in Record Debut (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-20/apple-poised-to-sell-10-million-iphones-in-record-debut)



Because of when I bought most of my AAPL shares, I believe my dividend yield is somewhere above 10% - I should calculate that and know. But there's just no other place (growth stock) where I can get that sort of income return and share price appreciation, so it would take a pretty massive hit for me to sell... but I typically don't ride stocks on the way down either. I'm just not that emotional about any stock or any company. But in this case, I don't let 3-5% moves scare me either. Those have actually provided very good entry points to buy call options or adding to the long for another move upward.

Individual stocks can be very risky and dangerous to your wallet. Have you thought about mutual funds? There are sector funds and ETF's that might work for you.


While Apple basically only is into smartphones/tablets/computers, Samsung (Samsung Electronics) have a much wider product portfolio.
Smartphones, tablets, cameras, Owens, microwaves, TVs, blu-ray players, memory cards, SSDs and many other products.
I also think that this will benefit Samsung since it will be easier for them to integrate/connect all the products with each other.

Apple basically lives on the hype, around the launch of their Ip5, they got free advertising in form of editorial articles in Swedish media
worth around 28 million kronor, approx 3,3 million Euros. Samsung at the time of the release of their S3 didn't even get 10% of Apple's publicity.

However I think Microsoft will be the long term winner since i think the Windows 8 products will rise in popularity
due to that it will be the same OS on all devices which will boost the user-friendliness.

[cali]

My employee got me Galaxy S3 about a week ago. In general I'm very positively surprised - the phone itself is a bit too big for my liking but overall impression is very good. But when it comes to usability I have never used better OS than Meego, pity that Nokia killed it too early.

Compared to 2.3, the ICS is a huge step forward.

[J4MIE]

I agree that iOS 6 maps are cack :( But at least it gives voice guidance which really annoyed me and it never worked properly anyway.

[Dave B]

The iPad has been the clear winner and Apple have had the last laugh on that count.
I think it's far too early to say that. The Nexus 7 has only recently launched and is likely to force prices downwards making tablets a mass-market product; and Amazon are launching a whole raft of devices at crazy-cheap prices (albeit subsidised by adverts). The market is very young, it'll be a long while before anybody has the last laugh.

[Malbec]

While Apple basically only is into smartphones/tablets/computers, Samsung (Samsung Electronics) have a much wider product portfolio.
Smartphones, tablets, cameras, Owens, microwaves, TVs, blu-ray players, memory cards, SSDs and many other products.
I also think that this will benefit Samsung since it will be easier for them to integrate/connect all the products with each other.

I disagree that Samsung will have the kind of advantage you claim over Apple. There is a limit to how far you can integrate a smartphone of any kind with domestic appliances. Sony has failed to take advantage of their own product portfolio despite having synergistic products such as the playstation and its portable variants as well as a huge software archive (games, film, music) which Samsung doesn't have.

However where both Apple and Samsung have the advantage over rivals such as Nokia, RIM and HTC is that they can use profits from other branches of the company to help subsidise their phone operations. Both Apple and Samsung have immense marketing budgets and in the latters case is the primary reason why they have gained market preeminence over other good Android makers such as HTC. Sony IMO have failed because their products haven't been that good.


However I think Microsoft will be the long term winner since i think the Windows 8 products will rise in popularity
due to that it will be the same OS on all devices which will boost the user-friendliness.

If it runs on different devices it faces a similar risk to Android with the end-user experience being different on different machine regardless of the greater control MS has over its OS compared to Google.

However the bigger reason Microsoft is unlikely to gain a significant foothold let alone win is that it is very late to the party and the sheer marketing spend is utterly dwarfed by that of Apple and hardware makers like Samsung that are focusing primarily on Android. It says a lot that the two makers making the biggest effort for Microsoft are Nokia and HTC who have considerably smaller marketing budgets than Apple/Samsung. Unless Microsoft loosens its pursestrings and pushes its OS like no other product it has released before they will likely fail.

[Daniel]

If it runs on different devices it faces a similar risk to Android with the end-user experience being different on different machine regardless of the greater control MS has over its OS compared to Google.

However the bigger reason Microsoft is unlikely to gain a significant foothold let alone win is that it is very late to the party and the sheer marketing spend is utterly dwarfed by that of Apple and hardware makers like Samsung that are focusing primarily on Android. It says a lot that the two makers making the biggest effort for Microsoft are Nokia and HTC who have considerably smaller marketing budgets than Apple/Samsung. Unless Microsoft loosens its pursestrings and pushes its OS like no other product it has released before they will likely fail.

No no no no no! This is not correct. Microsoft have made the smart move of stipulating what hardware the manufacturers can use so they do not run the same risk. Pick up any Windows Phone 7 device today and you'll have a good experience in terms of speed. They're all smooth :) this is not like android where you can have anything from a Galaxy S3 to some really cheap slow single core phone that wouldn't have been quick 2 or 3 years ago....

That said, you are right on marketing, unless Microsoft does something with the marketing then they will fail no matter how good the OS is. HTC WP8 devices announced the other day look very nice :)

[Daniel]

I think it's far too early to say that. The Nexus 7 has only recently launched and is likely to force prices downwards making tablets a mass-market product; and Amazon are launching a whole raft of devices at crazy-cheap prices (albeit subsidised by adverts). The market is very young, it'll be a long while before anybody has the last laugh.

Also, none of these tablets be it Android or iOS based really runs properly in a business environment. Windows Tablets will integrate far better and as soon as people are using them in a business environment that always helps popularity.....

[Daniel]

My wife has it on her iPhone 4 and iPad and hasn't really noticed anything major yet. She loves the integrated Facebook I know that lol.

I ordered my iPhone 5 too :p

The funny thing is that my Windows Phone has had Facebook functionality built in since day dot :) I've been enjoying facebook like this for almost 2 years now :)

[Mark]

unless Microsoft does something with the marketing

You know I'm not one to break promises I don't want to hurt you but I need to breathe At the end of it all, you're still my best friend But there's something inside that I need to release Which way is right, which way is wrong How do I say that I need to move on You know we're headed separate ways
And it feels like I am just too close to love you There's nothing I can really say I can't lie no more, I can't hide no more Got to be true to myself And it feels like I am just too close to love you So I'll be on my way
You gave me more that I can return Yet there's so much that you deserve Nothing to say, nothing to do, I've nothing to give I must leave without you You know we're headed separate ways
And it feels like I am just too close to love you There's nothing I can really say I can't lie no more, I can't hide no more Got to be true to myself And it feels like I am just too close to love you So I'll be on my way
So I'll be on my way
And it feels like I am just too close to love you There's nothing that I can really say I can't lie no more, I can't hide no more Got to be true to myself And it feels like I am just too close to love you So I'll be on my way
So I'll be on my way So I'll be on my way

[Daniel]

You know I'm not one to break promises I don't want to hurt you but I need to breathe At the end of it all, you're still my best friend But there's something inside that I need to release Which way is right, which way is wrong How do I say that I need to move on You know we're headed separate ways
And it feels like I am just too close to love you There's nothing I can really say I can't lie no more, I can't hide no more Got to be true to myself And it feels like I am just too close to love you So I'll be on my way
You gave me more that I can return Yet there's so much that you deserve Nothing to say, nothing to do, I've nothing to give I must leave without you You know we're headed separate ways
And it feels like I am just too close to love you There's nothing I can really say I can't lie no more, I can't hide no more Got to be true to myself And it feels like I am just too close to love you So I'll be on my way
So I'll be on my way
And it feels like I am just too close to love you There's nothing that I can really say I can't lie no more, I can't hide no more Got to be true to myself And it feels like I am just too close to love you So I'll be on my way
So I'll be on my way So I'll be on my way





I'm in two minds about that. Firstly I think why advertise a browser? Just me..... But then it obviously sticks in people's heads.....

[Mark]

I would contend it's only achievement is to get that song high in the charts. But; it's a pretty good ad all the same.

[Daniel]

I would contend it's only achievement is to get that song high in the charts. But; it's a pretty good ad all the same.

and if you hear the song you think Internet Explorer.

If I would have done anything differently I think I would have found a different name for Windows Phone. Say Windows to most people and they'll probably say something negative in spite the fact that it works well for most people.

[alicemac]

We'll have to see. One thing I've learned over the past 20 years or so is not to underestimate Apple, even when it produces something that's not a raging success. I think the Kindle goes for about $300 +/-. Even the entry level iPad (at $499) does everything the Kindle does, does it better and does a LOT more. It seems superior to a netbook. And you can get it with or without a data plan through AT&T. I don't know, but that's all from the Bloomberg report.

thanks


dainik bhasker (http://www.deshmeaaj.com)

[Malbec]

Not sure about that. I think the fact it is still the most used OS for computing worldwide mean most people just see it as the standard. It does the job without being fancy and is stable and easy to use. It may not be the same where phones are concerned but certainly in computing I would say.

I agree. Plus with Windows there is instant brand recognition. Microsoft knows how hard it is to build up a new brand from scratch like Zune or Xbox so I think staying with the Windows title was a good move. The only problem is that it draws a link with their previous substandard mobile Windows OS.

I have to say that Apple's 'i' naming system was clever, all they need to do is put the 'i' in front of a title and its instantly recognisable as an Apple product.

[Andrewmcm]

It was time for my mobile phone contract upgrade so I thought I would chance my arm on the first day of iPhone 5 sales. Well, I pootled down to my local city centre at noon to find that O2 had a fair few iPhone 5s in stock. I got served immediately and was on my way in 10 minutes. I then sauntered past the local Apple Store to find a queue some 100 deep outside the shop.

It seems like a nice device. It feels very different in the hand to the previous one. And the maps are rubbish, but openmaps has taken care of that need.

[pino]

It was time for my mobile phone contract upgrade so I thought I would chance my arm on the first day of iPhone 5 sales. Well, I pootled down to my local city centre at noon to find that O2 had a fair few iPhone 5s in stock. I got served immediately and was on my way in 10 minutes. I then sauntered past the local Apple Store to find a queue some 100 deep outside the shop.

It seems like a nice device. It feels very different in the hand to the previous one. And the maps are rubbish, but openmaps has taken care of that need.

Are you walking with your nose up in the air now ? ;)

:p :

[donKey jote]

She's ... playing with it next to me rubbing it in. Its very nice indeed. :)

as the bishop said about billy's missus :kiss: :s ailor: :andrea:

[ioan]

When we got our iPad 3 it was similar. The Apple store had sold out with people queuing for hours and Comet had a full stock! lol.


Not surprised at all.

[donKey jote]

as yer missus said to billy :bandit:

[Jag_Warrior]

RIM continues to experience problems:

RIM Falls as BlackBerry Service Disrupted in Europe (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-21/rim-says-blackberry-service-disrupted-in-europe.html)


Research In Motion Ltd. (RIMM) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/RIMM:US)’s BlackBerry customers in parts of Europe suffered a service disruption on the same day as Apple Inc. (AAPL) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/AAPL:US) introduced a new iPhone, the second time that’s happened in two years.

RIM is struggling with slumping sales as users switch to devices from Samsung Electronics Co. (005930) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/005930:KS) and Apple, which began selling its iPhone 5 in stores globally today. A similar BlackBerry outage last year as Apple debuted the iPhone 4S lasted for at least three days and compelled then co-Chief Executive Officer Mike Lazaridis (http://topics.bloomberg.com/mike-lazaridis/) to make a public video apology.

RIM CEO Thorsten Heins apologized for the disruption in a message (http://uk.blackberry.com/serviceupdate/) on the company’s website today. As many as 6 percent of RIM’s more than 78 million BlackBerry subscribers may have been affected, though the disruption didn’t last more than three hours, he said. RIM will do a full technical analysis to determine the cause, Heins said.


RIM dropped 6.5 percent to $6.46 at the close in New York, the most since June 29. The stock has tumbled 96 percent from its 2008 peak and 70 percent in the past 12 months.


There are rumors that Microsoft, Samsung or FaceBook might have an interest in buying RIM. Just rumors, mind you. But which of these three companies do you think would best be able to turn this struggling company around?

[Mark]

Well Facebook is the only one not with existing interests and there have been rumours if Facebook being interested in making a phone.

[race aficionado]

After further review, i will skip the latest version of iPhone.

The iPhone 5 (Parody): A Taller Change Than Expected - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNBP18nrRdw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

(sorry . . . .)

[Big Ben]

After further review, i will skip the latest version of iPhone.

The iPhone 5 (Parody): A Taller Change Than Expected - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNBP18nrRdw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

(sorry . . . .)

No need to apologize. They'll be filthy rich even without your money

[Mark]

That's pretty much my feeling too - not sufficient advantage for the outlay on the new phone especially when there are also downsides (the new connector)

The sensible thing is to stick with my perfectly good 4S until the 5S / 6 comes out. Or the likes of Samsung comes out with something amazing.

[pino]

Me still tented by iPhone 5 but will probably wait for the S version as my 4S works perfectly !

[race aficionado]

No need to apologize. They'll be filthy rich even without your money

I was apologizing for the silly video ;)

I know of friends and family that are very excited with their new iPhone as I know of many others that are very happy with their existing iPhones and will wait for the next versions to arrive and see if it attracts their fancy. i'm one of those. My 4S rocks!

[Mark]

I now have a problem that I'm thinking I'm going to be keeping my 4S for a while - but not forever, I'll be getting a phone with a lightening port eventually. So if I see a cool thing that will work with dock connectors, should I buy it, cos it'll stop working when I eventually do upgrade!

That's one reason why I bought an external battery with a USB cable rather than an integrated dock connector, as even 6 months ago I had a good idea the dock connector was on it's way out.

[cali]

iPhone in serious teething problems? (http://allthingsd.com/20120923/scuffgate-some-early-adopters-claim-iphone-5-case-is-scratch-tacular/)

[Dave B]

I mentioned above about that, and having seen both colours in the flesh, it only affects the black version. I do think Apple should do something about this though. The coating is just not good enough on the edges. The back marks, but you can wipe them off pretty easily. The edges chip which is not acceptable IMO.
People are probably just holding it wrong... :p

[donKey jote]

People are probably just holding it wrong... :p :
:laugh:

[J4MIE]

I have bought a 64Gb 4S on eBay and ordered a "recycling" envelope, the upgrade from 16Gb is costing me £75. Very happy with that, just in time for going on holiday with.

[ioan]

What? Apple released a(nother) product with issues? Impossible!
Next they will ask you to cut your fingernails very very short in order not to scratch the ultra sensitive screen!

Oh well. Those who knew that the iPhone 5 will be pants will have fun and those who think that Apple is producing the best products for the highest prices will never realize the issues anyway. Everyone is happy!

[CaptainRaiden]

Your ill informed comments aside, even the Android sites are reporting the iPhone to perform better than the Flagship of their fleet. This doesn't mean the S3 is a crap phone or 'pants as you would probably suggest, however. The Quad core is faster than the dual core S3, but you'd expect that. The fact its not much faster than a dual core iphone is puzzling.


iPhone 5 vs Galaxy S3 Speed Test: LTE Speeds, Geekbench Scores [VIDEO] | iJailbreak.com (http://www.ijailbreak.com/iphone/iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s3-speed-test-video/)


iPhone 5 vs Galaxy S3 benchmarking (http://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s3-benchmarking-which-one-is-better-117284/)
iPhone 5 rules competitive landscape in first Geekbench tests (http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/09/16/iphone-5-benchmark-geekbench/)
iPhone 5 Geekbench Score of 1600! [Fastest Smart Phone?] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB7bLDYsxmU)

Well, well, so it's suddenly all about hardware now? I thought Apple users didn't care about hardware performance. All that was important was how "smooth and easy" the interface was. :s ailor:

Also, why should it be such a big surprise? The iPhone 5 is 5 months newer and about 200 pounds more expensive (Sim free - Source: Amazon UK) than the Galaxy S3. It should absolutely blow any other competitor out of the water, but it's barely beating them, and that too not definitively. Are we just happy that Apple are not majorly disappointing again?!?

Also, Geekbench is not the definitive source for hardware tests. Different tests will show up different results. Here for example the international quad core Galaxy S3 scores higher than the iPhone 5:

iPhone 5 benchmarks: Slower than the Galaxy S3, faster than the Nexus 7 | ExtremeTech (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/136291-iphone-5-benchmarks-slower-than-the-galaxy-s3-faster-than-the-nexus-7)

In different tests, the Galaxy S3 has scored in the 1800s, 1900 and some even 2100 (See Nexus 7) depending on what OS they are running. 4.1 Jellybean generally resulting in higher scores.

Also FYI, more cores don't automatically make a processor faster, especially if the clock speed is lower. So, a quad core can work slower than a dual core based on clock speeds alone. Also, the processor isn't everything. A lot can depend on the motherboard as well, this is where Apple's A6 system-on-chip is making the difference. You can see this on PCs. On the whole a dual core can seem faster than a quad core, but a quad core will be better when multitasking.

[Big Ben]

It doesn't work Henners. I still want a galaxy s3... or s2 plus if that's for real... if I win the lottery.

[CaptainRaiden]

It's so difficult not to bash the iphone 5, especially how Apple has held back in features, yet again, and dropped the ball on maps. But in the interest of saving time, just a few points:

1. No, a 0.5 inch bigger screen doesn't make it the best iphone ever. It's nonsense. If you're going to increase it to 4 inches, why not add another 0.5 inches and put it right bang in the middle with its bigger competitors? How much is 0.5 inches going to hurt your pocket? The fact remains, gaming and movie playback will be more enjoyable on its competitor's larger screens. Besides it even lacks in the battery department, in standby time and talk-time, to the larger S3 with a more power hungry quad core processor.

2. Why is NFC and wireless charging missing, when it's already available on Galaxy S3 and Lumia 920?? Agreed that NFC is far away from global implementation, but many establishments have started with NFC paypoints, and you can already pay using Google Wallet. Why isn't it future proof? Do iPhone users have to wait for 5S or iPhone 6 for such features?

3. Apple Maps is a major suckety sucketash epic fail. Rarely have I seen a major company coming out with such a ridiculously incomplete product. But it seems, the sheep have embraced it with open arms. And people claiming that Google Maps was once crap. Well, it took them 7 years of insanely fast development rate to get where they are now. Will Apple get all that data in a couple of months? No. It's a catastrophe, which I assume would have been avoided if Jobs was still alive.

Apple already poaching peeps who worked on Google maps: Apple poaching Google Map makers to fix iOS 6 maptastrophe | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/apple-poaching-google-map-makers-to-fix-ios-6-maptastrophe-1099283)

Yeah, good luck Apple.

[CaptainRaiden]

Their latest iteration iOS6 has been globally underwhelming, from its stale design to lacking major features to the sucktastic Maps. Techradar.com is one of the more unbiased tech websites I frequent on, and they have scored it lesser than 4.1 Jelly Bean.

iOS6 review - 3.5/5 Stars

iOS 6 review | Operating systems Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/software/operating-systems/ios-6-1096515/review)

Android 4.1 Jelly Bean review - 4.5/5 Stars

Android 4.1: Jelly Bean review | Operating systems Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/software/operating-systems/android-4-1-jelly-bean-1087230/review)


Google are focusing on better integrating their search engine, maps and other Google services with their Mobile OS.

Apple are focusing on better integrating Facebook...

[race aficionado]

iHate this silly bickering thread . . . . . whoops! wrong thread! :dozey:

does your phone/tablet work? good

do you like your phone/tablet? good

did you spent your hard earned money where you wanted to invest it phone wise or tablet wise? good

you don't like your phone/tablet and want a new one? focus on research and affordability

do you prefer your phone/tablet (put your brand here) to the other phone/tablet? that's fine - thank goodness for free will and different tastes

should we talk about the wonderful technological advances of the many mobile phones and tablets that are out there? yes! that's what this thread is about.

should we criticize other products? . . . . . of course, if that is what we think is relevant- but without putting down the person that doesn't agree with you.

iHate this partisan/put down energy that this thread some times get into. ** and this is the right thread to post this in.

rant over, I'll get my coat.

:s mokin:

[Malbec]

1. No, a 0.5 inch bigger screen doesn't make it the best iphone ever. It's nonsense. If you're going to increase it to 4 inches, why not add another 0.5 inches and put it right bang in the middle with its bigger competitors? How much is 0.5 inches going to hurt your pocket? The fact remains, gaming and movie playback will be more enjoyable on its competitor's larger screens.

I'm one of those rare people who likes to keep their phone in their pocket along with my wallet, keys, coins and various other bits of manly paraphenalia. Call me close-minded but the moment I'm not quite comfortable with graduating to a man-bag or a clutch to store my bits and pieces.

Therefore I find this entire penis extension "my screen is bigger than yours" race ridiculous. The iPhone 4 is a handy size as is my old Desire. My Sensation is about as big a phone as I can reasonably fit in my pocket (oo-err missus). The S3 and One X, while nice phones, are far too large for practicality. If anything I want smaller screen size not bigger. If I want to watch some video I'll take myself to a TV or a monitor, not whip out my phone.

Therefore I'm glad Apple has restricted itself to a small screen extension and even better maybe their next one will be smaller. Ditto the other phone makers.


3. Apple Maps is a major suckety sucketash epic fail. Rarely have I seen a major company coming out with such a ridiculously incomplete product. But it seems, the sheep have embraced it with open arms. And people claiming that Google Maps was once crap. Well, it took them 7 years of insanely fast development rate to get where they are now. Will Apple get all that data in a couple of months? No. It's a catastrophe, which I assume would have been avoided if Jobs was still alive.

What would be interesting would be to find out at what levels within the company the mistakes were made. Where was quality control? How long did the software stay in the beta phase? Was there too much pressure from up top to rush the whole thing? Its pretty obvious that catastrophic failures like this are going to have involved mistakes or collusion from several different departments.

I'm sure Apple will somehow get over this problem but if they have another one they will find it difficult convincing the stock market that there isn't something seriously wrong with the way they manage projects.

[CaptainRaiden]

Actually you've got that one wrong. Snobs don't like it when someone tells them that thy are doing something wrong. And let's face it about 90% of all Apple users are snobs.

The thing is, snobs are never gonna admit that they are in fact snobs. ;)

This is a real conversation with an Apple fan after the iPhone 5 was launched. Mind you, his salary is not very high, but he takes loans to pay for his "gadgets" to gel in the "high society":

Apple fan: Dude, I'm gonna buy the 5.
Me: Are you sure? The maps are busted, there's no NFC, no wireless charging, and it's hardly a big upgrade over 4S.
Apple fan: But it's Apple! They say it's the best iPhone ever. It's 2X everything.
Me: But you're only 1 year into your current 4S contract, you're gonna extend it AND pay ridiculous money?
Apple fan: Yeah, why not?
Me: Why not go for Samsung, HTC or the new Nokia? You'll practically get them for free.
Apple fan: Because it's an Apple, and I don't wanna be seen using a phone from a manufacturer who also makes my washing machine.

:arrows:

[henners88]

Sour grapes :D

[CaptainRaiden]

PS: The unbiased 'techradar' awarded both the S3 and iPhone 5, 4.5 out of 5, so I would say they are both allowed to be classed as bloody good phones ;)

Hey, I agree it's an impressive piece of tech, but don't you agree that Apple are again holding back by not giving some key features which are already available in the flagship models of their nearest competitors, Samsung and Nokia?

[CaptainRaiden]

I'm one of those rare people who likes to keep their phone in their pocket along with my wallet, keys, coins and various other bits of manly paraphenalia. Call me close-minded but the moment I'm not quite comfortable with graduating to a man-bag or a clutch to store my bits and pieces.

Therefore I find this entire penis extension "my screen is bigger than yours" race ridiculous. The iPhone 4 is a handy size as is my old Desire. My Sensation is about as big a phone as I can reasonably fit in my pocket (oo-err missus). The S3 and One X, while nice phones, are far too large for practicality. If anything I want smaller screen size not bigger. If I want to watch some video I'll take myself to a TV or a monitor, not whip out my phone.

Therefore I'm glad Apple has restricted itself to a small screen extension and even better maybe their next one will be smaller. Ditto the other phone makers.

Look dude, I don't care what size Apple make their phone in, as I'm never gonna buy one. I was retorting to Apple making a big hub-a-bub over their "larger screen" in the promotional video, and what an "extreme collaborative" effort it was. They were also showing The Avengers playing on the iPhone 5 and also displayed some of the games. So, they're obviously using the bigger screen as a strong selling point. All of which is fine, but the fact remains streaming movies and playing games will always be better on a 4.8 inch screen. So, the iPhone might have well been at 3.5 inches, as a puny increase of 0.5 inches is not gonna make much difference anyway.


What would be interesting would be to find out at what levels within the company the mistakes were made. Where was quality control? How long did the software stay in the beta phase? Was there too much pressure from up top to rush the whole thing? Its pretty obvious that catastrophic failures like this are going to have involved mistakes or collusion from several different departments.

I'm sure Apple will somehow get over this problem but if they have another one they will find it difficult convincing the stock market that there isn't something seriously wrong with the way they manage projects.

I believe it's arrogance on Apple's part. They just didn't realize what an impressive effort Google Maps really is.

[CaptainRaiden]

PS: The unbiased 'techradar' awarded both the S3 and iPhone 5, 4.5 out of 5, so I would say they are both allowed to be classed as bloody good phones ;)

I think they put my thoughts into words perfectly in their review of the iPhone 5:

iPhone 5 review: Verdict | Phone Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/iphone-5-1096004/review/page:16#articleContent)


We disliked

The iPhone 5 isn't without its faults though – it's a handset that suffers from an ageing OS that doesn't look overly different from when it was launched five and a half years ago.

There are so many tweaks Apple could make to its OS to turn it into more of a powerhouse – icons that update with information, or extending the widgets in the notification bar beyond weather and stocks.

If only developers could add that functionality to apps so you could see updates in the notifications bar (seeing as it won't add anything to the home screen) – but Apple is taking things very slowly on this front.

The closed garden nature of iOS is also irritating, as it means you can't share items to Dropbox without connecting up to iTunes or send files to your mates via Bluetooth.

And then there's the lack of NFC, although we do see Apple's reasons for omitting the technology. It's not quite there yet in terms of market penetration for payments, but the world's largest network of accessories could definitely have made use of it for making ever cooler docks and cases.

Finally, there's the everlasting issue of the iPhone price. We simply cannot see how a 16GB model can cost £529 / $199, but to double the memory will cost an extra £70/ $100 with not other changes to the design.

And then your look at the contract price – it's far and away the most expensive in the shop, and most of the time you don't even get unlimited data.

There are plenty of other models on the market that are the equivalent of the iPhone 5, such as the Samsung Galaxy S3, HTC One X or the forthcoming Nokia Lumia 920, and none approach the price of Apple's flagship.

[CaptainRaiden]

I think you have to actually have to want these missing features to think they have been missed. None of the features I have seen discussed are needed by myself and I do not purchase a particular phone brand just for social status. I've made my feelings clear as to why I fancied the iPhone and social status has not come into it. I wanted one, I like the new version, and am happy with my purchase. I considered the S3 but when it came down to it, I preferred the iPhone. My choice is the correct choice in my case and no amount of whinging about features and specs is going to convince me otherwise :)

Well, then you should be happy with your purchase and ignore the criticisms. ;)


i still haven't got my iPhone which is my only real concern at the moment. A mate of mine walked into Orange last night picked one up but carphone warehouse who supply O2 don't seem to be able to ship a phone sat in their warehouse? On the flip side though, orange trade-in have offered me £120 for my HTC, happy days lol.

I'm sure you will get it soon enough. I gotta tell ya, I won't mind having an iPhone 5...............only if it was free. :p

[CaptainRaiden]

It's so difficult not to bash the iphone 5, especially how Apple has held back in features, yet again, and dropped the ball on maps. But in the interest of saving time, just a few points:

1. No, a 0.5 inch bigger screen doesn't make it the best iphone ever. It's nonsense. If you're going to increase it to 4 inches, why not add another 0.5 inches and put it right bang in the middle with its bigger competitors? How much is 0.5 inches going to hurt your pocket? The fact remains, gaming and movie playback will be more enjoyable on its competitor's larger screens. Besides it even lacks in the battery department, in standby time and talk-time, to the larger S3 with a more power hungry quad core processor.

2. Why is NFC and wireless charging missing, when it's already available on Galaxy S3 and Lumia 920?? Agreed that NFC is far away from global implementation, but many establishments have started with NFC paypoints, and you can already pay using Google Wallet. Why isn't it future proof? Do iPhone users have to wait for 5S or iPhone 6 for such features?

3. Apple Maps is a major suckety sucketash epic fail. Rarely have I seen a major company coming out with such a ridiculously incomplete product. But it seems, the sheep have embraced it with open arms. And people claiming that Google Maps was once crap. Well, it took them 7 years of insanely fast development rate to get where they are now. Will Apple get all that data in a couple of months? No. It's a catastrophe, which I assume would have been avoided if Jobs was still alive.

Apple already poaching peeps who worked on Google maps: Apple poaching Google Map makers to fix iOS 6 maptastrophe | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/apple-poaching-google-map-makers-to-fix-ios-6-maptastrophe-1099283)

Yeah, good luck Apple.

Carrying on from my previous post:

4. The panorama shot option is nothing new, and is already present in the 5 month old Samsung Galaxy S3, before that in a Sony Ericsson, and before that in a Nokia. It's a useless gimmick and can obviously never replace a proper panorama shot taken from a wide lens of a professional camera with a bazillion megapixels.

5. Why does Apple stick with the LCD screen, when almost all of its competitors have the newer, more advanced OLED screens on their flagship models? - Why the iPhone 5 doesn't have an AMOLED screen | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/why-the-iphone-5-doesnt-have-an-amoled-screen-1099642)

6. 4G LTE. Samsung and LG both appear to be readying lawsuits regarding 4G LTE patents, prime target being Apple, and stand to make a lot of money over it, and may even block iPhone 5 and iPad 3 from using 4G LTE (highly doubtful in Apple's backyard, USA), which could spell potential bad news for people wanting to do effective cloud computing outside of Wi-Fi zones and even use video chat features such as Facetime:

Samsung: We'll sue Apple over LTE technology | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/samsung-well-sue-apple-over-lte-technology-1094279)

LG readies itself for next level of patent wars | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/lg-readies-itself-for-next-level-of-patent-wars-1098916)

Petty lawsuits, I know, but Apple started it all with their rounded corners crap.

[ioan]

Your ill informed comments aside, even the Android sites are reporting the iPhone to perform better than the Flagship of their fleet. This doesn't mean the S3 is a crap phone or 'pants as you would probably suggest, however. The Quad core is faster than the dual core S3, but you'd expect that. The fact its not much faster than a dual core iphone is puzzling.


iPhone 5 vs Galaxy S3 Speed Test: LTE Speeds, Geekbench Scores [VIDEO] | iJailbreak.com (http://www.ijailbreak.com/iphone/iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s3-speed-test-video/)


iPhone 5 vs Galaxy S3 benchmarking (http://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s3-benchmarking-which-one-is-better-117284/)
iPhone 5 rules competitive landscape in first Geekbench tests (http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/09/16/iphone-5-benchmark-geekbench/)
iPhone 5 Geekbench Score of 1600! [Fastest Smart Phone?] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB7bLDYsxmU)

Do you work for Apple or are you somehow Steve Jobs' reincarnation?!
I never met someone who would get so worked up because of a stupid phone and a bit of well deserved criticism.

[ioan]

Google are focusing on better integrating their search engine, maps and other Google services with their Mobile OS.

Apple are focusing on better integrating Facebook...

Each of them focuses on the interests of their core customers, and it should be like that, cause you can't sell the same smartphone to everyone.

[ioan]

I think what escapes a lot of people is the fact its a very good phone.

Like 99% of them.

[ioan]

I didn't get worked up in the slightest, I just well and truly trumped your rather silly statement that the iPhone was 'pants' thats all. :laugh: :wave:

Right, not at all. Make sure you are a good boy or else Santa Claus will not bring you any presents.

[CaptainRaiden]

Well, after the iphone lovefest/bashfest over the last couple of pages, I believe we should move on. The thread is called "Mobile phones and tablets" after all. Two neat launches in the last 10 days.

Motorola and Intel pair up and hit 2 Ghz. Motorola Razr i

AnandTech - Motorola Hits 2GHz with Intel Powered RAZR i (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6307/motorola-hits-2ghz-with-intel-powered-razr-i)

Could be the fastest Android phone yet, but not very impressed by the lower resolution compared to other flagship phones.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6307/razri_575px.jpg

[CaptainRaiden]

And HTC's Windows Phone 8X and 8S.

AnandTech - The Windows Phone 8X and 8S by HTC (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6310/the-windows-phone-8x-and-8s-by-htc)

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6310/WP8S_3views_Blue_575px.jpeg

Impressive specs, and with the Windows OS, it should smoke both iPhone and Galaxy S3 in terms of speed. But HTC disappoints again with lack of MicroSD support.

FYI Nokia is suing HTC for this design. :crazy:

[CaptainRaiden]

Its not an iPhone though is it? :p

"It's not Apple", APPLE! Jeez henners, you're snobbing it wrong. :p

[ruth_holloway]

Because of the restrictions on iPhone's some features.
I prefer android.

[Daniel]

You're not alone in that opinion Ruth, a few here would agree with you. What particular features for you personally? :)

Because Ruth is probably just here to spam.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMsLArefSOw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

LOL..... I know that's obviously not the typical iPhone user but sadly there are some people like this......

[Daniel]

And HTC's Windows Phone 8X and 8S.

AnandTech - The Windows Phone 8X and 8S by HTC (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6310/the-windows-phone-8x-and-8s-by-htc)

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6310/WP8S_3views_Blue_575px.jpeg

Impressive specs, and with the Windows OS, it should smoke both iPhone and Galaxy S3 in terms of speed. But HTC disappoints again with lack of MicroSD support.

FYI Nokia is suing HTC for this design. :crazy:

It's good to see someone other than Nokia making an effort with a Windows Phone :)

[CaptainRaiden]

BMsLArefSOw

LOL..... I know that's obviously not the typical iPhone user but sadly there are some people like this......

:laugh: :laugh:

She's definitely gonna get a lot of texting done on her "Apple 5".

Saw this Jimmy Kimmel prank after the iPhone launch as well. Again, this is not generalizing against all iPhone users. Besides, it's easy to mistake as the two devices really look so similar and these guys didn't have any time playing around with the iPhone 5. Funny nonetheless:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4

[Dave B]

A lot's being made about the usefulness or otherwise of NFC, as hardly any retailers support it, but now that the other half's also got an S3 it suddenly makes sense: we can share apps, links, pictures, files or whatever simply by touching the handsets together. No faffing about with menus or contact lists (and definitely no sodding iTunes), and it's context sensitive to know what you want to share.

I suspect it will remain a niche product until it crops up in the iPhone 6 at which point it will suddenly become the iTag, the most magical new invention since the deliberately crippled video calling service Facetime! :p

[CaptainRaiden]

It's good to see someone other than Nokia making an effort with a Windows Phone :)

I'm sure you know Samsung also has a Windows phone, the Omnia II.

http://cdn1.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//Review%20images/TechRadar/Mobile%20phones/Samsung/Samsung%20Omnia%207/PR%20shots/Omnia7_74915_GT-I8700_ADImage_Large-900-90.jpg

And I think they're gonna launch a Windows 8 phone soon too?

[CaptainRaiden]

And I think they're gonna launch a Windows 8 phone soon too?

Ah well, forgot about the Ativ S. Samsung's attempt at Windows Phone 8.

ATIV S - Samsung ATIV (http://www.samsung.com/global/ativ/ativ_s.html#features)

http://mashable.com/2012/08/29/samsung-ativ-s/#84815Side-View

http://4.mshcdn.com/wp-content/gallery/samsung-unveils-first-windows-phone-8-smartphone/ATIV-S-Product-Image-Front-(4).jpg

[Mark]

It occurs to me that the mobile phone situation has finally come around to be a mirror of the personal computer situation. With a 3 way battle between Microsoft, Apple and Linux.

[CaptainRaiden]

It occurs to me that the mobile phone situation has finally come around to be a mirror of the personal computer situation. With a 3 way battle between Microsoft, Apple and Linux.

Yep, and in a completely reverse manner, with Linux (Android) dominating, Apple second and Microsoft third!

[Dave B]

Apple price themselves higher and their marketing team are well aware of their potential customer base.
For how long is this sustainable though? Right now Apple are perceived as a premium product because, with a tiny handful of exceptions, there are no handsets which come close to their quality. This is changing rapidly, and it's unlikely there'll be a new iPhone for another year, allowing more and more competitors to close the gap or overtake. There'll surely come a time when Apple cannot justify their high price. They're clearly cash rich enough to take a hit on their margins, so I wonder if we'll eventually see the price reduced to compete, or whether they'll be happy as a nice product with a high margin.

[Mark]

For those missing decent maps on iOS6, download the Bing app, it's no google, but it's way better than Apples steaming turd.