Lopez to USF1 *confirmed*

[UltimateDanGTR]

reuters report that Jose Maria Lopez to USF1 is a done deal, if there was ever any doubt after he was promised a race seat if he could raise enough funds, and that the deal will be announced on monday:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE60L2CL20100123

[Giuseppe F1]

Already being discussed here buddy:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136228&page=10

[Sonic]

This was a bad idea in december and its still a rubbish idea now. I know money is important but Sauber are in a similar position and still have a half way decent line up.

[F1boat]

Good luck to Jose. I know very little about him, however.

[Giuseppe F1]

This was a bad idea in december and its still a rubbish idea now. I know money is important but Sauber are in a similar position and still have a half way decent line up.

Agree, but thing is, USF1 team are building up the WHOLE TEAM and their first ever F1 car car from absolute scratch.....................Sauber are not

[Sonic]

Agree, but thing is, USF1 team are building up the WHOLE TEAM and their first ever F1 car car from absolute scratch.....................Sauber are not

True. But when Sauber were just starting up and doing everything USF1 is doing this year they entered with JJ and Karl IIRC. Not a bad little line up at all.

With the other new boys bringing two race winners (Lotus) a podium visitor and a regular GP2 front runner (Virgin) and a former GP2 front runner who missed out on a Brawn ride last year (Campos) and the best USF1 can manage is the 21st century version of Nicola Larini its not very impressive. I really want USF1 to succeed but they are making it very difficult to see it happening IMO.

[DazzlaF1]

True. But when Sauber were just starting up and doing everything USF1 is doing this year they entered with JJ and Karl IIRC. Not a bad little line up at all.

With the other new boys bringing two race winners (Lotus) a podium visitor and a regular GP2 front runner (Virgin) and a former GP2 front runner who missed out on a Brawn ride last year (Campos) and the best USF1 can manage is the 21st century version of Nicola Larini its not very impressive. I really want USF1 to succeed but they are making it very difficult to see it happening IMO.

But they went into their debut season in a strong position thanks to Mercedes backing, good facilities and expertise from their sports car days thereby allowing them to hire 2 decent drivers and build what turned out in the end to be a good car.

USF1 dont have that background or even that level of backing, it truly is being built from scratch. And in today's world, that is a very difficult especially considering no-one has even attempted that properly in over a decade.

[truefan72]

This was a bad idea in december and its still a rubbish idea now. I know money is important but Sauber are in a similar position and still have a half way decent line up.

stupid move from USF1 this inspires nobody and nothing.
A C-driver brought in for the money with worthy drivers available,and their first choice isn't even a c-driver from the united states as their whole reason for existence was touted.

I would have brought in Klien and Heidfeld, or Davidson and Klien, or Heidfled and Speed ,or Speed and Nakajima, or Andretti and Heidfeld, or anyone but this Lopez guy.

[Sonic]

But they went into their debut season in a strong position thanks to Mercedes backing, good facilities and expertise from their sports car days thereby allowing them to hire 2 decent drivers and build what turned out in the end to be a good car.

USF1 dont have that background or even that level of backing, it truly is being built from scratch. And in today's world, that is a very difficult especially considering no-one has even attempted that properly in over a decade.

All true. Which is why I applaud them and hope they succeed, but hiring a touring car driver?? There is so much talent out there - and even some with cash money - I just can't see the logic in signing him up, especially when it looks like he'll be lead driver. Who on earth will they pick as number two?? I've got $4.23 in change from a holiday left kicking around, perhaps I have a shot? :D

[maximilian]

I wish Lopez good luck >>> as in, I hope for him, his team mate will be even worse, so the Argentinian doesn't have to see that P26 sign flashing up all the time :D

All cruelty aside, and although I think P26 all the way, let's see what happens. IMHO, USF1 has one more chance to redeem themselves, and that's to hire a halfway respectable name for the other seat - whether that's Petrov (irony), Klien, Grosjean, Sato, Davidson, or Heidfeld (doubt it) - or if they DO opt for somebody totally out there, like Rossiter.

I actually thought that Piquet would have been a pretty good match for this team, with Senior bringing in some more cash, and arguably being an "American" driver, but I guess that's no longer in the cards.

[Saint Devote]

Agree, but thing is, USF1 team are building up the WHOLE TEAM and their first ever F1 car car from absolute scratch.....................Sauber are not

Which is why they need more than any other team, drivers that are well acquainted with single seater racing cars and have good experience especially over the past two years or so.

I cannot but envisage this team languishing well behind everyone else - the question being how soon they will get lapped in a race!

Whats the point?

And just like drivers, team owners should have earned their stripes in the lower formulae.

Dave Richards is refused, yet Windsor and Anderson accepted?!!

[stephenw_us]

"We've been offered well over three-quarters of our racing budget by two drivers already, neither of whom have raced in Formula One but both have won races in GP2. Both of them have massive sponsorship they can bring us from their home country. Ken and I have got to be very strong, look one another in the eye and say, 'No, we're not gong to accept that money, we're not going to hire those guys because we're going to remain true to our convictions."


"There are very good American drivers out there. To be honest, shame on Formula One and shame on American motorsport that some of these great young Americans with single seater talent have not been nurtured more and given more opportunity. If they'd all been out there racing Formula Renault, Formula 3, GP2, we'd be in a different ballpark right now."

These are direct Peter Windsor quotes from an August 2009 SI article. I guess it comes down to what we have already know about Windsor for quite some time. He is completely full of it and will basically say anything.

What a great start to the season, Peter. Brilliant!

[jens]

Well, I don't think Lopez is as bad as he is made to look like. Although he is probably the most underqualified driver confirmed for an F1 drive so far, we have seen worse drivers in F1. He was a solid upper midfield driver in GP2.

That said, I wonder, why isn't USF1 chasing for some more fashionable drivers than some complete unknowns (Lopez & Rossiter). What I mean is that those guys don't fit with the identity of USF1 well. IMO Villeneuve - whatever we might think of him on this board - would be a perfect driver to fit into the image of USF1 - a creator of a lot of propaganda and controversial debates. Sato would be another brilliant choice. And surely both of them can raise some sponsorship if they were serious about F1 return.

[Saint Devote]

"We've been offered well over three-quarters of our racing budget by two drivers already, neither of whom have raced in Formula One but both have won races in GP2. Both of them have massive sponsorship they can bring us from their home country. Ken and I have got to be very strong, look one another in the eye and say, 'No, we're not gong to accept that money, we're not going to hire those guys because we're going to remain true to our convictions."


"There are very good American drivers out there. To be honest, shame on Formula One and shame on American motorsport that some of these great young Americans with single seater talent have not been nurtured more and given more opportunity. If they'd all been out there racing Formula Renault, Formula 3, GP2, we'd be in a different ballpark right now."

These are direct Peter Windsor quotes from an August 2009 SI article. I guess it comes down to what we have already know about Windsor for quite some time. He is completely full of it and will basically say anything.

What a great start to the season, Peter. Brilliant!

Good post.

It is puzzling that a man such as Windsor, who throughout the 2009 season also threw in some jabs at the European motor racing industry, has not even attempted to try out American drivers from Indyracing.

Townsend Bell, Graham Rahal, Ryan Hunter-Reay and Scott Speed really were four names I was expecting to hear him mention. At least ONE American - although we have not had any f1 driver confirmed yet - from the above should be tried in that squad.

Bad show Windsor, bad show.

[RS]

What happened to the announcement?

[RusH]

Lopez did a decent job in GP2...so I don`t see the problem. USF1 will in the back of the grid with him, or without him.
I like the Petrov idea for the other seat, but that may torpedo his career too.

[Sonic]

Yes. The silence is deafening isn't it?

Perhaps USF1 have seen the light and "lost" lopez's number.

[Alfa Fan]

Yes. The silence is deafening isn't it?

Perhaps USF1 have seen the light and "lost" lopez's number.

Erm...http://www.usgpe.com/news/us-f1-team-announces-jose-maria-lopez-as-driver-for-2010-season.html

[Easy Drifter]

Based on Windsor's comments in August I would then assume to him 6 months is a loooong time.
I think a lot of the negative feeling about this team has resulted from the constant reversals of what was previously stated.
An example, outside of this one, was the announcement that they had hired enough staff from existing F1 teams but they couldn't start until the F1 season ended. Shortly thereafter they are advertising in Autosport UK for staff.
What happened to using US crewmen laid off from the various taxi cab teams? That was an earlier plan.

[stephenw_us]

The first driver for our so called American F1 team is announced on foreign soil by the President of a country that essentially hates our guts.

Nice.

The kid literally says it's a memorable day for the people of Argentina. You know, at least Vijay Mallya and Tony Fernandes have the guts to be honest about the driver situation.

Next we get to hear how this ride buyer is the best thing that could have happened for the next 3 months - this is some kind of nightmare, simply carried over from the 2005 USGP.

Ultra annoying british speed channel announcer whom openly worships lewis hamilton creates an "american" F1 team, tells us to trust him that he will do right by us, promises not to chase money, then goes out and gets a foreign government backed ride buyer...

Can it get any worse? What's next, Petrov backed by Gaspron gets the second seat?

Talk about being kicked in the teeth...hey Peter, it's not US if another government backs the team you mental giant...

[N. Jones]

Well, considering no one cares about F1 in the US how is he going to find any financial support? USF1 is going to have to do what they can just to make the grid. From there they have to do whatever they can to garner enough press to bring in some backing.

Otherwise they will be part of a long list of teams nobody remembers.

[stephenw_us]

Well calling the team US and then getting government backing from Argentina is probably not the best of ideas...

[maximilian]

That's it? Just a post on their website? No press conference, not even picked up by the racing web sites? Dude... originally when I heard USF1 was entering, I thought this was gonna be LIVE on ESPN one day, announcing some great American talent is driving for them next year... :rolleyes:

[Saint Devote]

Reading the press announcement I reckon that Windsor - cant STAND him - has taken BSing to a new fantastic level.

Lets see if this "f1 team" makes it to the Sakhir grid or does everyone a good turn and sells out to Stefan GP or just doesn't turn up!!!

[Saint Devote]

That's it? Just a post on their website? No press conference, not even picked up by the racing web sites? Dude... originally when I heard USF1 was entering, I thought this was gonna be LIVE on ESPN one day, announcing some great American talent is driving for them next year... :rolleyes:

Max, Peter Windsor said a LOT of things including USF1 going to be the most transparent f1 fan access team.

They said that from the time their factory opened there would be video access to see how things were going "live".

All that f1 has received from USF1 are bitchy comments towards Eurorpean teams, a closed shop and the opposite to everything that Windsor stated [lied?] months and months ago.

And now instead of an American driver they are celebrating an non-descript saloon car driver from Argentina, backed by their government.

I hope that USF1 fails! Actually change its name Windsor, it has nothing to do with the US any more than Brawn GP is now pretending to be a German team!

[SoCalPVguy]

Bumper sticker for race fans: "who the hell is Jose Maria Lopez?"

[ykiki]

The first driver for our so called American F1 team is announced on foreign soil by the President of a country that essentially hates our guts.

Argentina? Are you thinking of Venezuela? Not only does Chavez hate the US, but he sends Milka Duno to wreak havok on the IndyCar Series!

[F1boat]

Argentina? Are you thinking of Venezuela? Not only does Chavez hate the US, but he sends Milka Duno to wreak havok on the IndyCar Series!

Hahahahahhahahah!

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Wow. The more I read these forums, the more I start rooting for US F1 and Lopez.

[Saint Devote]

Argentina? Are you thinking of Venezuela? Not only does Chavez hate the US, but he sends Milka Duno to wreak havok on the IndyCar Series!

Maybe he thinks her Halloween mask-like face will frighten drivers out of the way - she is UGLY!!!!

[Saint Devote]

On a positive note, at least "Maria" is from Argentina, the country that gave us Fangio and Reutemann - and of course the Tango!!!

[K-Pu]

After seeing him in GP2 I don´t think he will do anything remarkable... or at least I hope he is not too slow. I remember how the Spanish press tried to make him look as the next Fangio, but they had to stop that (very) few races after.

Anyway, If I were a team principal I´d try to avoid him because, this has been said a million times, there are better drivers out there, with sponsors too.

[K-Pu]

Anyway, this does not mean I hope USF1 fails miserably, the point is I think Lopez is not the best option for a F1 drive in any team.

[tinchote]

People here seem to be too quick to dismiss a driver they don't know. How many of you guys knew about Jenson, Kimi, or Fernando before they started in F1? JM Lopez is probably not the next best thing in F1, but that doesn't mean he is not a capable driver. The guy did a decent European single seater stint, including GP2, and has been in Renault's driving program which meant driving the F1 car when they were at their best. Since then, because of luck of funds, he turned back to Argentina. In 2009 he was by far the most dominant driver in the three most popular touring championships that are run down there, winning two of them and losing the third one in the last race.

I'm not sure at all how he will cope with F1 -- even less with all the uncertainty surrounding the team -- but he is no more "nobody" than many successful F1 drivers by the team they made their debut.

[maximilian]

"He became a major star as a result and, in turn, the Argentine nation - a country where F1 is second only to soccer - has got behind him," said USF1 sporting director Peter Windsor.

I am so glad we finally have a major star in F1! :D Who needs MSchumacher, Alonso, or even Raikkönen! :p

Henners >>> it just demonstrates how strapped for cash USF1 must be. Remains to be seen if they show some good sense and hire a halfway experienced AND quick driver for the second seat, or whether it's a complete sell-out...

[ZequeArgentina]

I think you are not being fair with the Lopez analysis.
Just because you do not know someone or do not remember, he is a disaster?????

I will sum up my point of view, I am not a Lopez fan, and I consider not to have a nationalism bias analysis.

Who is Lopez?
Being very young he was a great talent in karting, he went to Europe and European team had very good impression out of him. He built a good career in single seat, growing and winning races in each series he took part, excellent WRS season and not a good one in GP2 (it happened to many drivers), He beated Kovalainen sharing the same team (both with Renault backing) several times in poles, and in races. This entire career was done with no support from Argentina, because he was not known here for having gone to Europe while in karting.

What this mean? He got his career based exclusively on talent.

When the Renault deal was over, he was left in Europe with no support at all, and came back to Argentina.

He was taken by works Honda tourism car team, and he soon delivered mainly poles (at races, the different style, took him some time to get accustomed).
The following years h made himself a name mainly by being the fastest in qualy in each series he took part (3 series).

After that he got a name in Argentina, and here comes the F1 thing.

F1 budgets were really smaller that in used to be till 2007. Local Government is kind to this type of actions (I do not think it is a good idea to spend public money on this), so everything was to make a try at F1.

What I think? It is 3 years late for Lopez.
But being him, is it an error or to try to take an excellent and unexpected opportunity? It will be first time Lopez races somewhere because of money backing him.

Then we should analyzed USF1 position, but that is another thing (I have written too much for the moment)

[maximilian]

I hope that USF1 fails! Actually change its name Windsor, it has nothing to do with the US any more than Brawn GP is now pretending to be a German team!
Well, at least Mercedes GP Petronas uses a German engine and apparently will have 3 German drivers... too much more isn't really realistic, given how multinational automobile companies work these days, with research and development facilities and factories all over the world.

Despite it all, I don't hope USF1 fails. So far, they have done nothing much but draw the ire of the fans they were hoping to attract, and are probably already the most hated team on the grid, ... before even MAKING it to the grid!! :p : But I also understand that there are enormous financial hurdles to face which ultimately dictate a lot of things. I hope they hang in there, and will get the opportunity to become what they originally planned to be... a team that runs at least one American driver, and that's based in the US, using as much American know-how as possible.

[maximilian]

I think you are not being fair with the Lopez analysis.
Just because you do not know someone or do not remember, he is a disaster?????

I think you are right there - and that people are more upset with USF1 than with Lopez. In a way, it's a real Cindarella story that he will finally get his shot at F1. Race fans just have a real dislike for the idea of "pay drivers" who take away seats from others they feel are more talented or qualified. Thank you for this perspective from the other side. I am sure it's very exciting news for race fans in Argentina! :)

[ZequeArgentina]

If you aske me, I would have preffered Esteban Gu3errieri to do F1 this year, but for Lopez it is OK.

But I do expectfro Lopez? very little.
He nows few circuits, but the same with USF1, no experience at all. The best to happen to Lopez is an experienced team mate!
His lack of recent formula experience would mean he would take 4 races ata elastto recover his 2007 level, not good withF1 fans who have NO patience at all.

From USF1 point of view?
I understand it is very usefull Lopez.
First races it is a bet. They have no experience in circuits, in car desing, in anything, so even having Schumacher and Hamilton, the would most proably DNFor being in last positions.

They need a decent car, to understand it, make it drivers understand it and probably from mid season on, start to think in standings.

I think their idea of a all US team, have come to reality: US drivers (other than Scott Speed) have no eperience in circuits, a year of them to get experience is better (they are doing it, 2 or 3 drivers have gone to europe this year).
They need money to develo as a team, get experience, and develop their car as well. Having a US driver at the end of the field will onl hurt their chances of backing from te US. Thsi year for the team is ust to get experience, with a pa drver, they got more resources to build a team.

Lopez knows this, but does he have another chance?
May be, the team build a decent car, he can make reasonable races, and next year, who knows?

[tinchote]

What I don't understand is the thinking behind employing a driver with no F1 race experience when you are in the position of US-F1. I don't know enough about Lopez but I know Nick Heidfeld is on the market and I'm sure he would sign up to a one year deal now his chances of a race seat have taken a nose dive. Of course employ both.


I totally agree with that. It's hard to imagine USF1 having even decent performances.

[DexDexter]

Well, at least Mercedes GP Petronas uses a German engine and apparently will have 3 German drivers... too much more isn't really realistic, given how multinational automobile companies work these days, with research and development facilities and factories all over the world.


2.5 to be precise. ;)

[stephenw_us]

I think you are not being fair with the Lopez analysis.
Just because you do not know someone or do not remember, he is a disaster?????

I will sum up my point of view, I am not a Lopez fan, and I consider not to have a nationalism bias analysis.

Who is Lopez?
Being very young he was a great talent in karting, he went to Europe and European team had very good impression out of him. He built a good career in single seat, growing and winning races in each series he took part, excellent WRS season and not a good one in GP2 (it happened to many drivers), He beated Kovalainen sharing the same team (both with Renault backing) several times in poles, and in races. This entire career was done with no support from Argentina, because he was not known here for having gone to Europe while in karting.

What this mean? He got his career based exclusively on talent.

When the Renault deal was over, he was left in Europe with no support at all, and came back to Argentina.

He was taken by works Honda tourism car team, and he soon delivered mainly poles (at races, the different style, took him some time to get accustomed).
The following years h made himself a name mainly by being the fastest in qualy in each series he took part (3 series).

After that he got a name in Argentina, and here comes the F1 thing.

F1 budgets were really smaller that in used to be till 2007. Local Government is kind to this type of actions (I do not think it is a good idea to spend public money on this), so everything was to make a try at F1.

What I think? It is 3 years late for Lopez.
But being him, is it an error or to try to take an excellent and unexpected opportunity? It will be first time Lopez races somewhere because of money backing him.

Then we should analyzed USF1 position, but that is another thing (I have written too much for the moment)

I don't think anyone in the USA is really all that upset about Lopez, from what I can tell he's a great driver whom has had recent success.

For me, it is extremely insulting to have an Aussie/Brit setup what he self described as a US assault on F1 and then, unsolicited by anyone, make all these promises about giving US drivers seat's in F1 - then, take our countries name and use it on the name of the new team...

Only to go to Argentina to get government funding and announce an Argentinian driver with the President of that country. How the bloody hell is that something the so called United States Formula One team is supposed to do?

First of all, if you are not going to run an American driver, that is totally understandable but why would you not get a driver with actual F1 experience like Villeneuve, Wurz, Sato, Bourdais, etc etc etc?

OK then fine you are not going to run an American driver in year one because the team is new but how in bloody hell can you build your team around the name of the United States and then have the audacity to go align yourself with another country, complete with government backing?

Not only do you do that - but you go get a picture with the President of that county.

USF1? (bull kaka)

[ZequeArgentina]

Stephen, I understand yourpoint of view. USF1 wasnamed evidently for a marketing reason, but all the "wording" for the creators show they talk with no no real compromise.

[jens]

The claims that Lopez was forced to leave Europe due to lack of funding are quite interesting. How has he suddenly found backing now? How did the Argentine government/companies/whoever suddenly come to realization after many years..."Oh wait, remember that guy was racing in Europe not too badly in the past, maybe he is worth getting helped back to there? We are so sorry we didn't support him back then, by now we have been enlightened and will support him." :p :

[ZequeArgentina]

Jens, it is completely the other way round (I have explained in my previous long post).

Lopez went to Europe having raced NOT EVEN one car race in Aregntina (only karting) > very few knew him here.

He was part of several european teams, who backed him, starting from Tony Kart to Renault Driver Development. It is a mistake by autosport to say he was back here because he ran out of money.
When he reach at the end of Renault programme and Kovalaien got the seat in F1, he was left with no support in europe and no placeto run. He never got backing from Argentina.

He came to Argentina, contracted by Honda for tourism car, started winning, got 2008 championship, again in 2009, aswell as champion in other series and also winner n a third series. Aftar all these, specially periods were he took poles in every race he entered, he was with no doubt the figure in Argentina.

[DazzlaF1]

The claims that Lopez was forced to leave Europe due to lack of funding are quite interesting. How has he suddenly found backing now? How did the Argentine government/companies/whoever suddenly come to realization after many years..."Oh wait, remember that guy was racing in Europe not too badly in the past, maybe he is worth getting helped back to there? We are so sorry we didn't support him back then, by now we have been enlightened and will support him." :p :

Well the TC2000 championship he won 2 years running is big in his homeland, so from that he would have generated a lot of good publicity for himself.

Either that or his sponsors will be looking to take advantage of the global exposure F1 provides.

[Giuseppe F1]

Well the TC2000 championship he won 2 years running is big in his homeland, so from that he would have generated a lot of good publicity for himself.

Either that or his sponsors will be looking to take advantage of the global exposure F1 provides.


Carlos Reuteman (sp?) - Argentinean, ex F1 star, now governor of Santa Fe and close friend of Peter Windsor......i.e. Friends in high places :)

[stephenw_us]

Carlos Reuteman (sp?) - Argentinean, ex F1 star, now governor of Santa Fe and close friend of Peter Windsor......i.e. Friends in high places :)

Oh totally....check out my latest blog post:

http://stephenw.us/us-f1-linked-with-argentina

Peter really stuck his foot in this time...

[BMW_F1]

I disagree with Stephen, the USF1 team is after all 100% assembled in the US. When was the last time that happened?

F1 is always been more about the car than its drivers.. Yeah, the drivers are always important but they get all that fame because of the good cars they drive (Ferrari/mclaren/Wiliams..etc)

I am also sure that USF1 attempted and are trying to get a young American to drive for them but at the moment it is impossible. Let’s be real, all of the American (US) open wheel drivers at the moment are not ready to jump on an f1 cockpit and be competitive with the exception of Scott Speed who is not really interested in coming back.

This is the year to get their feet wet and by the second year I am sure that guys like Rossi will be the leading candidates to occupy one of the USf1 driver seats after having experienced European racing in lower Open wheel series..

[stephenw_us]

The link with the Argentine government is essentially indefensible, as an American I have to draw the line there.

It's one thing to call yourself US F1 and for obvious reasons start with drivers from other countries that have F1 experience.

It's an entirely different thing to call yourself US F1 and then go get financial backing from Argentina via a ride buyer.

Argentine F1 would be the more appropriate name. And in light of what Peter was saying about this very subject last summer, US F1 is in the undeniable position of not keeping their word to this country and to their fans.

[Easy Drifter]

Any truth to the rumour USF1 are naming Milka Duno as the second driver? :eek: :eek: :eek:







(I highly doubt it since I just made it up.) :D

[Saint Devote]

Anyway, this does not mean I hope USF1 fails miserably, the point is I think Lopez is not the best option for a F1 drive in any team.

I would like to retract my words on that - sometimes emotive reactions get the better.

I hope that USF1 does not fail and that it makes it to the grid.

But not even it appears TRYING to sign an American driver is disappointing and totally opposite to what Peter Windsor stated the whole US F1 reason for being!

[Saint Devote]

I disagree with Stephen, the USF1 team is after all 100% assembled in the US. When was the last time that happened?

F1 is always been more about the car than its drivers.. Yeah, the drivers are always important but they get all that fame because of the good cars they drive (Ferrari/mclaren/Wiliams..etc)

I am also sure that USF1 attempted and are trying to get a young American to drive for them but at the moment it is impossible. Let’s be real, all of the American (US) open wheel drivers at the moment are not ready to jump on an f1 cockpit and be competitive with the exception of Scott Speed who is not really interested in coming back.

This is the year to get their feet wet and by the second year I am sure that guys like Rossi will be the leading candidates to occupy one of the USf1 driver seats after having experienced European racing in lower Open wheel series..

F1 is about the driver. It always has been. Do people remember Senna or Mclaren?

There are FOUR American candidates that ought to have been publicly courted - Graham Rahal, Ryan Hunter-Raey, Townsend Bell and yes, Scott Speed. Even Marco Andretti.

I am not prepared to accept any excuse from USF1 because they stated an objective and quietly as if it was never mentioned, it is no longer.

[maximilian]

There are FOUR American candidates that ought to have been publicly courted - Graham Rahal, Ryan Hunter-Raey, Townsend Bell and yes, Scott Speed. Even Marco Andretti.

I guess the sad thing is that most of these guys even have a hard time scrounging up the money to ride even in Indycar, so it's not surprising no one has even remotely the needed sponsorship backing to get the USF1 ride...

[BMW_F1]

F1 is about the driver. It always has been. Do people remember Senna or Mclaren?.

I disagree.. everyone knows that the car is the most important ingredient in winning.

Small teams have always employed unpopular drivers. You cannot compare USf1 with mclaren.. Paid drivers is nothing new.. Very recently Williams had to hire a japanese driver for financial reasons..



There are FOUR American candidates that ought to have been publicly courted - Graham Rahal, Ryan Hunter-Raey, Townsend Bell and yes, Scott Speed. Even Marco Andretti.?.

without experience in European open wheel racing they would have been lost.. They most probably could not even have gotten a superlicense..
I already mentioned that Speed is out of the equation because he does not want to return to F1..

[Saint Devote]

I disagree.. everyone knows that the car is the most important ingredient in winning.

Small teams have always employed unpopular drivers. You cannot compare USf1 with mclaren.. Paid drivers is nothing new.. Very recently Williams had to hire a japanese driver for financial reasons..



without experience in European open wheel racing they would have been lost.. They most probably could not even have gotten a superlicense..
I already mentioned that Speed is out of the equation because he does not want to return to F1..

The car?
How many MORE tickets were sold when Ferrari announced that Schumi would return in place of Massa?

Sure the car is important - its motor racing - but it is the drivers that people go and watch and WANT to see regardless of the claims of the technical buffs.

I am not comparing USF1 to Mclaren. I am just saying that USF1 has totally obliterated its whole reason for being as it was constituted.

My point in mentioning the American drivers I named was to illustrate that USF1 did not even TRY.

Instead of the openess and access they promised and criticized ALL F1 teams for not allowing - they closed up more than any other team and did the exact opposite.

What Peter Windsor promises, and he has alway lots to say about how the existing F1 teams should act "better", and what he delivers have no bearing on each other.

I remain as doubtful of USF1 as Bernie Ecclestone does and, I would rather have ten or eleven strong teams than have crap on the grid 10 seconds slower than everyone else.

We went through that kind of garbage in the 1990's when quality was placed second to quantity. It does not work.

[stephenw_us]

I disagree.. everyone knows that the car is the most important ingredient in winning.

I was wondering when the default NASCAR F1 bash was going to be trotted out...didn't take long did it?

What's next, Darrell Waltrip is going to start defending Peter's double talk on camera?

[BMW_F1]

The car?
How many MORE tickets were sold when Ferrari announced that Schumi would return in place of Massa?

Sure the car is important - its motor racing - but it is the drivers that people go and watch and WANT to see regardless of the claims of the technical buffs.

I am not comparing USF1 to Mclaren. I am just saying that USF1 has totally obliterated its whole reason for being as it was constituted.

My point in mentioning the American drivers I named was to illustrate that USF1 did not even TRY.

Instead of the openess and access they promised and criticized ALL F1 teams for not allowing - they closed up more than any other team and did the exact opposite.

What Peter Windsor promises, and he has alway lots to say about how the existing F1 teams should act "better", and what he delivers have no bearing on each other.

I remain as doubtful of USF1 as Bernie Ecclestone does and, I would rather have ten or eleven strong teams than have crap on the grid 10 seconds slower than everyone else.

We went through that kind of garbage in the 1990's when quality was placed second to quantity. It does not work.

You are talking about superstar drivers here. Do you seriously believe that any of the new teams would have been able to attract a WDC caliber driver?

The debate of whether the drivers or the team/car is the most important aspect in formula 1 is an intricate discussion and way off-topic but one thing I can say is that you would find strong supporters from both sides of the fence. The tifosi will remain loyal to ferrari despite who they put on the cockpit and the same goes for some of my British friends with mclaren- specially those who like to worship Mr. Dennis.

How do you know that USF1 did not even try to get an American driver this year?. The team has no obligation to expose to the general public all the details about their contracts or who they’ve been trying to recruit. The lack of information does not indicate that USF1 did not TRY or are not trying.. – There is still an open seat. I actually read that Summerton was a candidate but they struggled to get him a superlicense due to him losing the Atlantic championship to John Edwards on a tiebreaker this year.

Their videos are more than anything I’ve yet to see from any F1 team. As a motorsports fan, what do you prefer to see? Information about the details of their new car or information about driver contacts and sponsorship deals?

And lastly no one here knows how many seconds slower than anyone else is the USF1 team going to be. The way I see it is that, at least for this year, all 4 new teams and maybe Toro Rosso, who is building a car on their own for the first time this year, will be competing against each other and NOT against the established teams. You cannot expect any of these new guys to come out in year one and get on the podiums but if you do, your expectations are pretty high is all I can say.

A new team always has to start somewhere and 2010 is the opportunity for 4 of them.

[BMW_F1]

I was wondering when the default NASCAR F1 bash was going to be trotted out...didn't take long did it?



am I wrong in what I said?..
Plug in Button in the 2004 and 2002 Ferrari and he would be a 3 time WDC just like Senna..

[stephenw_us]

am I wrong in what I said?..
Plug in Button in the 2004 and 2002 Ferrari and he would be a 3 time WDC just like Senna..

Right, because Michael Schumacher just arrived and drived at Ferrari. Anyone could have done what he did.

Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

[DexDexter]

am I wrong in what I said?..
Plug in Button in the 2004 and 2002 Ferrari and he would be a 3 time WDC just like Senna..

You're making petty bold statements for somebody who doesn't seem to have that much expertise about F1. This is about the Lopez guy, not about this typical "car is everything" stuff. I bet next you're going to state that F1 is elitist :rolleyes: .

[F1boat]

without experience in European open wheel racing they would have been lost.. They most probably could not even have gotten a superlicense..
.

IMO a win in Indycar should be enough for a superlicense, I think that the cars are at least equal to GP2. I think that Graham would have done solid in the car, about Marco, I don't know. He was promising in his rookie season, but seems solid midfield - in Indycar - now. Even Danica owned him for two or three seasons and she, although good, is nothing special.

[Dave B]

I really do want USF1 to succeed, honestly it'll be fantastic to have more teams on the grid. But jeezy creezy they're making life difficult for themselves aren't they? If they want to go back on their pledge to promote American drivers then fair enough, but at least put somebody in the car with a modicum of current F1 experience - there's plenty of them on the market.

This project has "fail" written all over it.

[Saint Devote]

You are talking about superstar drivers here. Do you seriously believe that any of the new teams would have been able to attract a WDC caliber driver?

The debate of whether the drivers or the team/car is the most important aspect in formula 1 is an intricate discussion and way off-topic but one thing I can say is that you would find strong supporters from both sides of the fence. The tifosi will remain loyal to ferrari despite who they put on the cockpit and the same goes for some of my British friends with mclaren- specially those who like to worship Mr. Dennis.

How do you know that USF1 did not even try to get an American driver this year?. The team has no obligation to expose to the general public all the details about their contracts or who they’ve been trying to recruit. The lack of information does not indicate that USF1 did not TRY or are not trying.. – There is still an open seat. I actually read that Summerton was a candidate but they struggled to get him a superlicense due to him losing the Atlantic championship to John Edwards on a tiebreaker this year.

Their videos are more than anything I’ve yet to see from any F1 team. As a motorsports fan, what do you prefer to see? Information about the details of their new car or information about driver contacts and sponsorship deals?

And lastly no one here knows how many seconds slower than anyone else is the USF1 team going to be. The way I see it is that, at least for this year, all 4 new teams and maybe Toro Rosso, who is building a car on their own for the first time this year, will be competing against each other and NOT against the established teams. You cannot expect any of these new guys to come out in year one and get on the podiums but if you do, your expectations are pretty high is all I can say.

A new team always has to start somewhere and 2010 is the opportunity for 4 of them.

Top drivers to newer or "lesser" teams - lets see now: Jonesy to Lola, Emerson to Spirit-Hart, Scheckter to Wolf, Hill to Brabham - response to your question: yes.

The tifosi are a minority compared to the regular sort of other fan. Put Lopez and Hartley in a Mclaren or Ferrari and see what happens to tv audiences!!!

Driver versus car - still comes out ahead.

In formula one terms my expectations WILL be higher than anywhere else - but in f1 terms no. There is a certain high standard that has to be met and at times - 107% rule - there was even some sort of mild minimum standard.

F1 has been through allowing the "asthma-teams" to try: it does not work. Quality is always better than quantity.

[BMW_F1]

Right, because Michael Schumacher just arrived and drived at Ferrari. Anyone could have done what he did.

Unbelievable. :rolleyes:
if you think Button is just any driver, that is your statement not mine.

[BMW_F1]

You're making petty bold statements for somebody who doesn't seem to have that much expertise about F1. This is about the Lopez guy, not about this typical "car is everything" stuff. I bet next you're going to state that F1 is elitist :rolleyes: .

and where did I say that the car is everything? What I said was that the car is the most important ingredient in winning which I am sure is something you agree with otherwise you are the one who seems to be lacking some f1 expertise.

[Sleeper]

Unlike most people posting here, I've actually seen Lopez race single seaters here in Europe and from what I remeber he was a very quick driver, if rather crash prone. He also has 6000km of testing with Renault under his belt, which is more than Di Grassi has, so I'm going to wait until the racing starts before I praise him or dismiss him.

As for USF1 gettting American drivers into the team, until Newgarden and Rossi have had a few more years of experience on the single seater ladder I think they are better off looking for pay drivers like Lopez than going for the currrent crop (I'd certainly bet on Lopez ahead of Summerton or JR Hilderbrand in a race).

[BMW_F1]

Top drivers to newer or "lesser" teams - lets see now: Jonesy to Lola, Emerson to Spirit-Hart, Scheckter to Wolf, Hill to Brabham - response to your question: yes.

The tifosi are a minority compared to the regular sort of other fan. Put Lopez and Hartley in a Mclaren or Ferrari and see what happens to tv audiences!!!

Driver versus car - still comes out ahead.

In formula one terms my expectations WILL be higher than anywhere else - but in f1 terms no. There is a certain high standard that has to be met and at times - 107% rule - there was even some sort of mild minimum standard.

F1 has been through allowing the "asthma-teams" to try: it does not work. Quality is always better than quantity.

My question to you was not if this has happened before– check again what I asked.
I know that this has happened before, however that is not the norm.. Most small teams start with relatively unknown drivers because their car will not be competing for the WDC so putting an Alonso or Kimi on their roster is a waste of money.. – Villeneuve went to BAR and that killed his career, I am sure most drivers now are well aware of that and won’t be making the same silly mistake that JV made. You appear to fail to understand that USGPE is a very small team and with very limited resources that even some mid-field drivers with vast f1 experience do not even consider driving for them.

I can’t be 100% sure that that the tifosi type fans are a minority (Fans in Italy and the UK may have something to say about that).. I actually fall into that category myself, but regardless, even if they were to be a minority it does not mean that their point of view with respect to teams/drivers should be simply discarded.. They’ve always been attached to the team and not the driver so there is always been different flavors for everybody..

And you still don’t know if any or which of the new teams will not comply with the 107% rule (if still exists), you are just speculating..

[stephenw_us]

My question to you was not if this has happened before– check again what I asked.
I know that this has happened before, however that is not the norm.. Most small teams start with relatively unknown drivers because their car will not be competing for the WDC so putting an Alonso or Kimi on their roster is a waste of money.. – Villeneuve went to BAR and that killed his career, I am sure most drivers now are well aware of that and won’t be making the same silly mistake that JV made. You appear to fail to understand that USGPE is a very small team and with very limited resources that even some mid-field drivers with vast f1 experience do not even consider driving for them.

I can’t be 100% sure that that the tifosi type fans are a minority (Fans in Italy and the UK may have something to say about that).. I actually fall into that category myself, but regardless, even if they were to be a minority it does not mean that their point of view with respect to teams/drivers should be simply discarded.. They’ve always been attached to the team and not the driver so there is always been different flavors for everybody..

And you still don’t know if any or which of the new teams will not comply with the 107% rule (if still exists), you are just speculating..

The only problem with your statement is that it is not true.

Have you taken a look at who drives for Lotus? Virgin? So let me ask you a question, are you must making stuff up now?

It's interesting to me that you won't address the hypocrisy of USF1 - but instead are intent at deflecting the issue onto the car, not the human beings involved.

[stephenw_us]

if you think Button is just any driver, that is your statement not mine.

No. I understand that Michael Schumacher is arguably the greatest F1 driver of all time, whom developed the Ferrari from 1996, literally sleeping at the test track. He also broke his leg trying too hard, and he brought Ferrari the first WDC decades after coming back from that injury.

Your statement that Button could win the WDC in his car as a matter of undisputed fact (read: ridiculous) shows a basic lack of knowledge, a complete lack of respect for one of the stars of this sport, not to mention it's pure speculation designed to deflect from the issue being discussed.

[BMW_F1]

The only problem with your statement is that it is not true.

Have you taken a look at who drives for Lotus? Virgin? So let me ask you a question, are you must making stuff up now?

It's interesting to me that you won't address the hypocrisy of USF1 - but instead are intent at deflecting the issue onto the car, not the human beings involved.

Yes I have..
- Trulli . a driver on the verge of retiring from Formula 1.
- Kovalainen. a driver so slow that his only win after two years driving for a top team, came at the expense of Massa retiring from the lead. He would have been without a drive two years ago when there were no new teams entering f1.
- DiGrassi who? - Renault test driver, ex GP winner.. I see a resemblance somewhere..
- Glock.. the best driver from this bunch but he's nothing special really.

Now, if some of these teams would have lured Button/Lewis/Vettel/Massa/Kubica/Alonso/Kimi.. you then may have something to talk about..

I wont deny that an experienced driver would have been a better choice (Heidfeld would have been ideal) but the thing here is that I doubt that the only guys that were available were really interested in driving for them.. Ralf I hear was approached and Speed as well but they refused..so what are you going to do.. ? get some paid drivers, and start grooming young Americans for when they're ready, they'll have a seat.

[BMW_F1]

No. I understand that Michael Schumacher is arguably the greatest F1 driver of all time, whom developed the Ferrari from 1996, literally sleeping at the test track. He also broke his leg trying too hard, and he brought Ferrari the first WDC decades after coming back from that injury.

Your statement that Button could win the WDC in his car as a matter of undisputed fact (read: ridiculous) shows a basic lack of knowledge, a complete lack of respect for one of the stars of this sport, not to mention it's pure speculation designed to deflect from the issue being discussed.

I see you have some strong feelings attached to the biggest cheat in Formula 1 history, however you should not let that cloud your judgement when rating the quality of a good car..
I understand that Michael was a great driver however his triumphs cannot all be attributed to his excellent driving skills. My opinion about Button winning in 2002 and 2004 still stands as proven this year by him beating Rubens on track and winning the tittle against a much tougher competition from Vettel compared to anything MS had to deal with in the years I mentioned.

Now .. what is your evidence to demonstrate that the F2002 & F2004 were not the best cars of the grid by far and that it was all MS doing all that winning ..?
Save it.. Maybe for a another thread... :burnout:

[BMW_F1]

Peter Windsor on why there were no American drivers this year..

No American driver has [the necessary F1] super licence," he says, "apart from maybe [GP3 driver] Alexander Rossi - but that was very recent.

"We had to draw a line. [IndyCar front-runners] Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti haven't got one. They may have been given one, but we couldn't take the risk of finding in the third week of February that they'd been turned down.

"We want to be in F1 for a long time. We'll build a stable platform and then do it [get an American driver] - we've got plenty of time."

Source: BBC Sports.

[maximilian]

"We had to draw a line. [IndyCar front-runners] Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti haven't got one. They may have been given one, but we couldn't take the risk of finding in the third week of February that they'd been turned down.

I'd have to say that if the FIA really prefers the domestic Argentinian touring car championship over the (admittedly ailing) IndyCar Series as far as determining Superlicense eligibility, then it's FINALLY time to abolish it :rolleyes:

More likely, though, just some more hogwash from Windsor. Superlicense seems to be a great face-saving excuse (a la Sebastian Loeb - still can't believe he'd REALLY be turned down as multi-champion and Le Mans runner).

[BMW_F1]

I'd have to say that if the FIA really prefers the domestic Argentinian touring car championship over the (admittedly ailing) IndyCar Series as far as determining Superlicense eligibility, then it's FINALLY time to abolish it :rolleyes:

More likely, though, just some more hogwash from Windsor. Superlicense seems to be a great face-saving excuse (a la Sebastian Loeb - still can't believe he'd REALLY be turned down as multi-champion and Le Mans runner).

FIA makes the rules, not Windsor. Pechito has tested for RenautF1 team, and did two years in GP2.. He is the same boat with Bruno Senna.

you can find their regulations here..
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/InternationalSportingCodeA.aspx

[F1boat]

Peter Windsor on why there were no American drivers this year..

No American driver has [the necessary F1] super licence," he says, "apart from maybe [GP3 driver] Alexander Rossi - but that was very recent.

"We had to draw a line. [IndyCar front-runners] Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti haven't got one. They may have been given one, but we couldn't take the risk of finding in the third week of February that they'd been turned down.

"We want to be in F1 for a long time. We'll build a stable platform and then do it [get an American driver] - we've got plenty of time."

Source: BBC Sports.
But who is the 2nd driver?

[DexDexter]

Peter Windsor on why there were no American drivers this year..

No American driver has [the necessary F1] super licence," he says, "apart from maybe [GP3 driver] Alexander Rossi - but that was very recent.

"We had to draw a line. [IndyCar front-runners] Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti haven't got one. They may have been given one, but we couldn't take the risk of finding in the third week of February that they'd been turned down.

"We want to be in F1 for a long time. We'll build a stable platform and then do it [get an American driver] - we've got plenty of time."

Source: BBC Sports.

That reasoning isn't that convincing to me. IMO The real reason is money or the lack of it.

[Sonic]

[CENTER][CENTER]
That reasoning isn't that convincing to me. IMO The real reason is money or the lack of it.

Hasn't got me convinced. Top flight Indy/Champ car drivers have made the switch before and given superlicences. Its all about the green.

I do wish Lopez luck though - I don't think anyone expects a great deal from him but he has achieved his dream in a rather roundabout manner. Its USF1 I'm cheesed off with - this is not the team I expected to see considering what was promised back in 2009.

[BMW_F1]

That reasoning isn't that convincing to me. .

It wouldn't be if you don't know what is stated the regulations..

[BMW_F1]

[CENTER][CENTER]

Top flight Indy/Champ car drivers have made the switch before and given superlicences.
.

really ? who..


d) been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the
Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years

2009 Indy Car Standings.
1. Dario
2. Dixon
3. Briscoe
3. Helio

2008 Indy Car Standings.
1. Dixon
2. Helio
3. Kanan
4. Wheldon.

Where is Marco and Rahal?

[Sonic]

Put it this way; the last driver I can recall not being given the super was Oliver Gavin back in 1995 IIRC. There may have been others but they don't spring to mind.

[stephenw_us]

I see you have some strong feelings attached to the biggest cheat in Formula 1 history, however you should not let that cloud your judgement when rating the quality of a good car..
I understand that Michael was a great driver however his triumphs cannot all be attributed to his excellent driving skills. My opinion about Button winning in 2002 and 2004 still stands as proven this year by him beating Rubens on track and winning the tittle against a much tougher competition from Vettel compared to anything MS had to deal with in the years I mentioned.

Now .. what is your evidence to demonstrate that the F2002 & F2004 were not the best cars of the grid by far and that it was all MS doing all that winning ..?
Save it.. Maybe for a another thread... :burnout:

Well this pretty much sums you up doesn't it? You come on here in a thread about USF1 and attack the star of the sport.

I don't debate with internet trolls. Tell the truth, you are a NASCAR fan out trolling.

[BMW_F1]

Well this pretty much sums you up doesn't it? You come on here in a thread about USF1 and attack the star of the sport.

I don't debate with internet trolls. Tell the truth, you are a NASCAR fan out trolling.

so everyone has to share your opinion otherwise they are trolls.. ?
:laugh:
This is what these forums are for, to discuss everything which relates to racing. If you don't like the views of other posters you should stay away from them..

[DexDexter]

It wouldn't be if you don't know what is stated the regulations..

That's just talk. Marco Andretti or Rahal would definitely get a superlicense. Kimi Räikkönen did and he came straight from Formula Renault with 23 car races under his belt. So...

[BMW_F1]

That's just talk. Marco Andretti or Rahal would definitely get a superlicense. Kimi Räikkönen did and he came straight from Formula Renault with 23 car races under his belt. So...

You mean that what the FIA publishes as regulations is just talk.? I wouldn't be so sure..
With Kimi, I am sure Sauber had other drivers in stand by in the event that the FIA decided to rejected it.. USGPE would had to be sure that these two would be accepted as an extraordinary case.. I remember that with Kimi it was the most popular news at the time.. and after all he turned out to be a special driver..

Marco and Rahal are not really worth all that effort..

[stephenw_us]

so everyone has to share your opinion otherwise they are trolls.. ?
:laugh:
This is what these forums are for, to discuss everything which relates to racing. If you don't like the views of other posters you should stay away from them..

Actually, the subject was the ride buying of the USF1 seat of JML backed by the Argentine government.

You've tried to spin the discussion into:

1. The car is more important than the driver.

2. Jenson Button would have won the WDC in the 2002 and 2004 Ferrari

3. Michael Schumacher should not be credited for his driving skills, and is the biggest cheat in F1 history.

4. The superlicense Red Herring.

And you've successfully devolved this thread into a bunch of non-relevant tangents started by you - with the sole intention of changing the subject, and/or degenerating the conversation into the NASCAR/Americana goggled view (which is all based on devaluing both the sport and most importantly the stars) of Formula One.

Yeah, troll just about sums it up, as this whole "me versus everyone" attitude on display here bears out.

[BMW_F1]

Actually, the subject was the ride buying of the USF1 seat of JML backed by the Argentine government.

You've tried to spin the discussion into:

1. The car is more important than the driver.

2. Jenson Button would have won the WDC in the 2002 and 2004 Ferrari

3. Michael Schumacher should not be credited for his driving skills, and is the biggest cheat in F1 history.

4. The superlicense Red Herring.

And you've successfully devolved this thread into a bunch of non-relevant tangents started by you - with the sole intention of changing the subject, and/or degenerating the conversation into the NASCAR/Americana goggled view (which is all based on devaluing both the sport and most importantly the stars) of Formula One.

Yeah, troll just about sums it up, as this whole "me versus everyone" attitude on display here bears out.

Ok, excuse me for dragging this off-topic although I am only partially responsible (you kept telling me I was wrong when I wasn't).. My point was to provide a basis for my disagreement to your initial post where you appeared to reject the team simply because they did not hire any American drivers.. As you can see, there are other type of fans out there who add more weight to the car/team then the driver when considering which team to root for..
and by the way Where is NASCAR coming from here?.?.. what movie are you watching? Just asking.

Let's go back to Pechito..

[stephenw_us]

Ok, excuse me for dragging this off-topic although I am only partially responsible (you kept telling me I was wrong when I wasn't).. My point was to provide a basis for my disagreement to your initial post where you appeared to reject the team simply because they did not hire any American drivers.. As you can see, there are other type of fans out there who add more weight to the car/team then the driver when considering which team to root for..
and by the way Where is NASCAR coming from here?.?.. what movie are you watching? Just asking.

Let's go back to Pechito..

Because it's all the same spin, it's like you are all reading from a script. On SpeedTV right now, there is an article with the very same sort of spin on the front page:

"Few drivers will have been under such a spotlight from so many different angles. One who knows pressures of this sort is Juan Pablo Montoya, who gave up safety and comfort in Formula One to leap into NASCAR four years ago. Montoya was widely regarded as one of the best race car drivers in the world, but there was skepticism surrounding how well he might do in such a different environment, as there always is when open-wheel stars of any background transfer to heavier stock cars against world-class competition."

The "safety and comfort" of F1? The "world-class" competition of NASCAR - Trulli and Kovalainen are not high caliber drivers (according to you), the car is more important than the driver, M. Schumacher is over rated and a cheat - F1 its all about the car...

blah blah blah blah - It's all NASCAR/America ying yang...

It is embarrassing, and you've come into this thread and perpetuated it...it is always the same kind of stuff to - 100% about devaluing Formula One, 100% about marginalizing anything to do with the sport, accept when it comes to USF1....and there is where you are all BUSTED.

The USF1 team clearly exposes the situation that I am describing here - as you have Americans now engaging in bitter vitriol against the F1 establishment (seen what is said about Bernie Eccelstone on SpeedTV lately?) while blindly defending USF1 whom by anyone's clear eyed standards has continued to engage in PR blunder after PR blunder, this latest one at an almost unfathomable level. USF1 is now funded by Argentina...it's indefensible.

This is one American whom is sick and tired of the racing world in this country having such a chip on their shoulder because no matter how you slice it, road racing in high performance formula cars is still the ultimate benchmark of racing craft. F1 is the top of motorsport and it originated outside of this country and through basic evolution its become what it is. People in the states, especially NASCAR fans like you, just need to get over it. Blame Tony George if you must. But it is what it is.

The issue I have with USF1, and most anyone else that is paying attention with clear eyes is simple. Don't call yourself USF1 and in interviews promise us American drivers, then go out and get funding from another country and use some pathetic super license excuse for not following through with your promises.

It's disingenuous, we are simply not that stupid and naive as fans, and ultimately - it's insulting.

Like a superlicense for the grandson of World Champion Mario Andretti would be a problem to get.

Please.

[BMW_F1]

OMG.. you can always turn off SPEEDTV you know and Montoya is still one of the greatest race car drivers ever whether he is NASCAR or F1 is irrelevant..and I don't rate Kova and Trulli is past his time..

I see you hate NASCAR, now that you got all that out of your system can we go back to J-Lo ? ..

[Saint Devote]

Peter Windsor on why there were no American drivers this year..

No American driver has [the necessary F1] super licence," he says, "apart from maybe [GP3 driver] Alexander Rossi - but that was very recent.

"We had to draw a line. [IndyCar front-runners] Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti haven't got one. They may have been given one, but we couldn't take the risk of finding in the third week of February that they'd been turned down.

"We want to be in F1 for a long time. We'll build a stable platform and then do it [get an American driver] - we've got plenty of time."

Source: BBC Sports.

Peter Windsor can say what he likes - and while he is an authority on judging a driver's ability and deducing style - he has also reneged on every single item that he [LOUDLY] led people to believe USF1 was being founded on.

His excuse vis-a-vis Indycar drivers is just ridiculous and incorrect and I am surprised at its flimsiness.

I know exactly what AJ Foyt would say to Windsor - and it would not be pretty but oh so well deserved.

Lopez will be on the same track as Michael Schumacher - there is a lot that is obnoxious about that!

[Saint Devote]

OMG.. you can always turn off SPEEDTV you know and Montoya is still one of the greatest race car drivers ever whether he is NASCAR or F1 is irrelevant..and I don't rate Kova and Trulli is past his time..

I see you hate NASCAR, now that you got all that out of your system can we go back to J-Lo ? ..

Montoya is what?!!! :eek:

You WILL tend to find that people raised on British / European racing with f1 as the center of the universe, like myself - will never warm to the boorish mysteries of NASCAR.

It is Moet et Chandon versus Budweiser - the two will never mix.

NASCAR? [shudder!!!]

[BMW_F1]

Peter Windsor can say what he likes - and while he is an authority on judging a driver's ability and deducing style - he has also reneged on every single item that he [LOUDLY] led people to believe USF1 was being founded on.
Like for example? .. Did he say that the team would have American drivers in their first year.. ? I don't recall I read that part, I think what they said was that they would try. And how is it a big deal if they don't join f1 in 2010 but do so in 2011 istead?



His excuse vis-a-vis Indycar drivers is just ridiculous and incorrect and I am surprised at its flimsiness..
yeah, how?.. As I already mentioned Summerton is trying but the FIA is not too keen on giving him the superlicense. go check out his twitter page..

And I also don't like PW.. He is a lousy journalist.. there, we now have something in common..
I reserve my judgement on Lopez until Bahrein.. From what I've been told, the kid is good..

[ykiki]

Lopez will be on the same track as Michael Schumacher - there is a lot that is obnoxious about that!

Well, we all survived Giovanna Amati, Jean-Deniz Deletraz, Taki Inoue & Giovanni Lavaggi on the track with Michael Schumacher at one time or another too.

I dare say I expect Lopez to be far better than that lot. Then again, we may not be able to tell anything depending on the car USF1 produces.

[BMW_F1]

Montoya is what?!!! :eek:

You WILL tend to find that people raised on British / European racing with f1 as the center of the universe, like myself - will never warm to the boorish mysteries of NASCAR.

It is Moet et Chandon versus Budweiser - the two will never mix.

NASCAR? [shudder!!!]

is there really a need to bring up well known stereotypes.?. I know all about it dude..

[truefan72]

lol BMW_F1 coming into this forums with a bang and not making any friends quickly. What stephenw_us said in post#93 about windsor and USF1 is bang on.
It is rather embarrassing how they have proceeded to date and even the name USF1 will probably be mercifully changed as it will continue to be a complete misnomer to their current ethos.

Windsor and the entire outfit have been pathetic in PR. management and delivering on single promise they made.
6 months ago, I would have bet the driver lineup would have been Scott Speed and a younger American from the CART series. I have kept and eye on their progress and have sadly been disappointing with every move they have made. with every statement Windsor makes he loses more credibility.

[BMW_F1]

Well, we all survived Giovanna Amati, Jean-Deniz Deletraz, Taki Inoue & Giovanni Lavaggi on the track with Michael Schumacher at one time or another too.

.
and you can add guys like Badoer, Alex Yoong, Marquez, Bruni, Albers, Karthikeyan and Monteiro to that list..

[Saint Devote]

But who is the 2nd driver?

That is unequivocally the most intriguing question in formula 1!

Lopez knows sweet fanny adams! So they need a driver that will lead them and teach the ambitious Argentinian [god this is supposed to be f1] - looking back on the history of Argentinian drivers they are either brilliant - Fangio, Gonzalez and of course one of my all time favorites Lole Reutemann, or quite simply they really STINK!

So with history firmly against "Pechito" - which current experienced f1 driver will risk their reputation?

I cant figure anyone that desperate with a willing sponsor. If were a driver I would keep FAR away from USF1.

[truefan72]

Like for example? .. Did he say that the team would have American drivers in their first year.. ? I don't recall I read that part, I think what they said was that they would try. And how is it a big deal if they don't join f1 in 2010 but do so in 2011 istead?


lol
1. the very reason for their existence as defined by them was to provide F1 seats for Americans. when the media and fans scoffed at that nationalistic notion,Windsor and co. stuck to their guns with their All-American approach, from factory to crew to drivers. He did not say they will try, he said thet will do!

2. And yes it is a big deal if they don't make the grid in 2010, because 2011 is no guarantee ( ask prodrive). I've already stated numerous times that I never thought the Outfit was even worthy of F1 grid space based on numerous factors, the most important being time and money. There is a real possibility that 2 of the new reams will not make the grid which is everything you need to know about their validity and about how FIA/Mosley went about selecting teams to drive in the pinnacle of motor sports. Them not making the grid in 2010 will be an utter failure of historic proportions.

[Saint Devote]

and you can add guys like Badoer, Alex Yoong, Marquez, Bruni, Albers, Karthikeyan and Monteiro to that list..

You really have no clue about f1 auld sunne!

Take it from me after 36 f1 seasons - my suggestion is stick to NASCAR - it suits trolls :s mokin:

[BMW_F1]

6 months ago, I would have bet the driver lineup would have been Scott Speed and a younger American from the CART series.

And what made you think that Scott Speed was interested..?

What I honestly think has happened with Peter and USf1 is that 6 months ago they probably expected to have signed with a big sponsor by now but as we know that hasn't happened yet.. so basically they are short on cash, but they aren't the only ones.

[BMW_F1]

You really have no clue about f1 auld sunne!

Take it from me after 36 f1 seasons - my suggestion is stick to NASCAR - it suits trolls :s mokin:

How about you stick to the rules of the forum and address what is being presented instead of making personal remarks... And if you don't have the appetite to do so, you can always ignore it..

[BMW_F1]

lol
1. the very reason for their existence as defined by them was to provide F1 seats for Americans. when the media and fans scoffed at that nationalistic notion,Windsor and co. stuck to their guns with their All-American approach, from factory to crew to drivers. He did not say they will try, he said thet will do!

2. And yes it is a big deal if they don't make the grid in 2010, because 2011 is no guarantee ( ask prodrive). I've already stated numerous times that I never thought the Outfit was even worthy of F1 grid space based on numerous factors, the most important being time and money. There is a real possibility that 2 of the new reams will not make the grid which is everything you need to know about their validity and about how FIA/Mosley went about selecting teams to drive in the pinnacle of motor sports. Them not making the grid in 2010 will be an utter failure of historic proportions.


1. I know he did..but I am still struggling to find the part where he said that he will do it in the first year..

2. I just don't see any current US open wheel driver that is ready for Formula 1 besides Speed and I don't think he said that there were either.. And I Agree with the last part. - "If" they don't make the grid but we have to wait and see about that I guess.

[truefan72]

And what made you think that Scott Speed was interested..?

What I honestly think has happened with Peter and USf1 is that 6 months ago they probably expected to have signed with a big sponsor by now but as we know that hasn't happened yet.. so basically they are short on cash, but they aren't the only ones.

TBH I think 6 months ago they though Mosley would still be president
the 2 tier systme would be in effect and they would have received generous support from the FIa in terms of regs and stuff.

If they were not ready to be in F1 in 2010 they should have announced their entry for 2011. When Toyota entered the sport, they had been developing the program for over 3 years not 18 months.
And looking at examples of the 80's and early 90's is not a good example either as teams did not have to commit to season long contracts, pay the high entrance fees, or deal with the real modern day requirements needed to run a standard f1 team. The budget for computers alone today would probably make some of those past teams blush.

[BMW_F1]

TBH I think 6 months ago they though Mosley would still be president
the 2 tier systme would be in effect and they would have received generous support from the FIa in terms of regs and stuff.

If they were not ready to be in F1 in 2010 they should have announced their entry for 2011. When Toyota entered the sport, they had been developing the program for over 3 years not 18 months.
And looking at examples of the 80's and early 90's is not a good example either as teams did not have to commit to season long contracts, pay the high entrance fees, or deal with the real modern day requirements needed to run a standard f1 team. The budget for computers alone today would probably make some of those past teams blush.
I see your point and is a good one, but another thing that peter is/was considering is the dramatic cut in costs which is taking place right now. I don't really have a lot of details on how high is this item on Todt's agenda now. The amount of money and resources that toyota spent to enter f1 is a thing of the past.

[gloomyDAY]

The photo-op was taken with the President of Argentina.

A blessing from that witch is like a kiss of death!

Anyway, good luck USF1.

[airshifter]

It's amazing how many experts we have that seem to know just how easy it is to build and fund a F1 team and hire top notch drivers only from the teams country.

I would have never thought that all the F1 team owners and managers had so much time on their hands during the off season. :laugh:



As for the comments by BMW_F1, I don't see them as any more out of line than the comments of those attacking him for having a differing opinion.


It personally doesn't bother me at all that USF1 has no US driver, as the choices are limited. Beyond that it's obvious they need the cash flow to get the team rolling.

[Mia 01]

For me it´s enough if the team is confirmed for the first race.

I don´t know this Lopez.

[pino]

You really have no clue about f1 auld sunne!

Take it from me after 36 f1 seasons - my suggestion is stick to NASCAR - it suits trolls :s mokin:

If I catch you posting another insult/personal comment, you will be banned for a month.

[DexDexter]

You mean that what the FIA publishes as regulations is just talk.? I wouldn't be so sure..
With Kimi, I am sure Sauber had other drivers in stand by in the event that the FIA decided to rejected it.. USGPE would had to be sure that these two would be accepted as an extraordinary case.. I remember that with Kimi it was the most popular news at the time.. and after all he turned out to be a special driver..

Marco and Rahal are not really worth all that effort..

I mean Windsor talking about as if the superlicense-thing is the REAL reason they will possibly not have an American driver. That's just plain bollocks.


lol
1. the very reason for their existence as defined by them was to provide F1 seats for Americans. when the media and fans scoffed at that nationalistic notion,Windsor and co. stuck to their guns with their All-American approach, from factory to crew to drivers. He did not say they will try, he said thet will do!

2. And yes it is a big deal if they don't make the grid in 2010, because 2011 is no guarantee ( ask prodrive). I've already stated numerous times that I never thought the Outfit was even worthy of F1 grid space based on numerous factors, the most important being time and money. There is a real possibility that 2 of the new reams will not make the grid which is everything you need to know about their validity and about how FIA/Mosley went about selecting teams to drive in the pinnacle of motor sports. Them not making the grid in 2010 will be an utter failure of historic proportions.

I agree, there are organisations (Prodrive, Lola, Euskaldi( or whatever :) ) that are far more impressive than Campos or USF1 but were somehow not given a place on the grid. Mosley at work....

[DexDexter]

lol
1. the very reason for their existence as defined by them was to provide F1 seats for Americans. when the media and fans scoffed at that nationalistic notion,Windsor and co. stuck to their guns with their All-American approach, from factory to crew to drivers. He did not say they will try, he said thet will do!

2. And yes it is a big deal if they don't make the grid in 2010, because 2011 is no guarantee ( ask prodrive). I've already stated numerous times that I never thought the Outfit was even worthy of F1 grid space based on numerous factors, the most important being time and money. There is a real possibility that 2 of the new reams will not make the grid which is everything you need to know about their validity and about how FIA/Mosley went about selecting teams to drive in the pinnacle of motor sports. Them not making the grid in 2010 will be an utter failure of historic proportions.

I agree, there are organisations (Prodrive, Lola, Euskaldi( or whatever :) ) that are far more impressive than Campos or USF1 but were somehow not given a place on the grid. Mosley at work....

[BMW_F1]

I mean Windsor talking about as if the superlicense-thing is the REAL reason they will possibly not have an American driver. That's just plain bollocks.
..

Most team bosses nowadays are driven by PR motives and always sound political about stuff like that.. It does seem like he made it sound (superlicense-thing) like an excuse however it is valid one since those guys by the rules could not get the license, no one here has yet to provide some reasonable explanation on how Marco and Rahal would have gotten a license - all I read was that Marco has a famous racing Grandpa and that Kimi did it. They would be bypassing the rules.

As I mentioned earlier, if these two drivers were the real deal, I am pretty sure that they would have tried harder and really push the FIA to hand it to them but they ain't Kimi, that's for sure, so why waste your time on someone who is not going to be setting the world on fire (Marco ?.. pleaasse.. he can't even beat Danica). Maybe both Peter and Anderson realize this and don't want to sound too obvious and simply say they are not f1 material.. We don't really have any details with respect to the second seat but it could still go to Summerton who at least has some European open formula experience .

Now put yourself in their shoes.. Do you rather have in your team someone like Marco or Rahal, who have never raced in Europe and are not the cream of the crop in their respective racing categories, or someone who can bring some cash flow to the team AND/OR has some F1 experience in times where money IS short.

Bringing an American racer to F1 is something that’s not going to get done overnight..Peter for the past year has partnered with Rob Wilson and David Fleming in the UK to set up up a young driver search program. The idea now is to bring the same concept and make this type of program available to young American drivers – but it takes time because the only American kids at the moment with some real potential are too young.

[stephenw_us]

Most team bosses nowadays are driven by PR motives and always sound political about stuff like that.. It does seem like he made it sound (superlicense-thing) like an excuse however it is valid one since those guys by the rules could not get the license, no one here has yet to provide some reasonable explanation on how Marco and Rahal would have gotten a license - all I read was that Marco has a famous racing Grandpa and that Kimi did it. They would be bypassing the rules.

As I mentioned earlier, if these two drivers were the real deal, I am pretty sure that they would have tried harder and really push the FIA to hand it to them but they ain't Kimi, that's for sure, so why waste your time on someone who is not going to be setting the world on fire (Marco ?.. pleaasse.. he can't even beat Danica). Maybe both Peter and Anderson realize this and don't want to sound too obvious and simply say they are not f1 material.. We don't really have any details with respect to the second seat but it could still go to Summerton who at least has some European open formula experience .

Now put yourself in their shoes.. Do you rather have in your team someone like Marco or Rahal, who have never raced in Europe and are not the cream of the crop in their respective racing categories, or someone who can bring some cash flow to the team AND/OR has some F1 experience in times where money IS short.

Bringing an American racer to F1 is something that’s not going to get done overnight..Peter for the past year has partnered with Rob Wilson and David Fleming in the UK to set up up a young driver search program. The idea now is to bring the same concept and make this type of program available to young American drivers – but it takes time because the only American kids at the moment with some real potential are too young.

"We’ve been offered well over three-quarters of our racing budget by two drivers already, neither of whom have raced in Formula One but both have won races in GP2. Both of them have massive sponsorship they can bring us from their home country. Ken and I have got to be very strong, look one another in the eye and say, ‘No, we’re not going to accept that money, we’re not going to hire those guys because we’re going to remain true to our convictions."

This is what Peter volunteered to the public back in August.

I mean, you sound like you are the head of PR at USF1, and you are out trying to do damage control. You are going to tell us that JML was the best choice? There are pay drivers with actual F1 experience looking for rides. The reasonable explanation is that Bernie would make it happen. OBVIOUSLY.

You are talking to knowledgeable Formula One fans here, not just anyone. :rolleyes:

[BMW_F1]

it's always funny to read somone who likes to be selective with quotes and picks which ones are credible and which ones are BS.

you see, with that statement there you can even select which part is bs and which one is true (which is what you did) or if all is bs.

so people think PW is full of .. What else is new ? I already knew that.

and I suggest that you also lay off the personal remarks, the other dude was already warned by the mods.

[stephenw_us]

I'm sorry, but this whole, "look at me, I'm being personally attacked" victim thing is just sad...

If I get banned for telling it like it is, so be it.

[BMW_F1]

stephen,

I can also sit here and start typing a bunch of things about you just based on your style and specially your NASCAR paranoia, but I keep those comments to myself simply because that's not the point of these threads..

I provided three full paragraphs on why I think Marco and Rahal are not good options for USf1 and how it is not that simple to get an American driver in F1 NOW and you just dismiss it by saying I sound like a PR rep from USf1.. ?.

You must be relatively new at this whole forum concept..

[stephenw_us]

stephen,

I can also sit here and start typing a bunch of things about you just based on your style and specially your NASCAR paranoia, but I keep those comments to myself simply because that's not the point of these threads..

I provided three full paragraphs on why I think Marco and Rahal are not good options for USf1 and how it is not that simple to get an American driver in F1 NOW and you just dismiss it by saying I sound like a PR rep from USf1.. ?.

You must be relatively new at this whole forum concept..

Look, I'm not an idiot. I live in NASCAR country, it's every where, and no true fan of racing in the states can call themselves an informed racing fan without carefully following NASCAR, which I do.

I'm quoting articles and pointing our facts here - NASCAR opines and talks about Formula One - a lot. It's always aimed at criticizing and devaluing the sport, it's just a reality, you call it paranoia because you don't like seeing it pointed out. You address it by saying - don't pay attention to it - well, SpeedTV is the center of the racing universe in the United States, it's like saying don't pay attention to CNN.

In the same way that you've come onto this forum/thread - it's a simple formula - criticize F1, defend anything American. I get it.

You'll play devils advocate here on anything stated that you see as critical of American motorsport (including NASCAR of course) then complain to the principal when the predictable outcome unfolds. It's a technique as old as the internet, and a simple google search on your handle tells the whole story.

The real purpose of a forum like this, is for Formula One enthusiasts to engage one another about the sport, but as we already know, that isn't possible with you because everything on F1 from you will be hyper-critical and negative.

I get it.

[BMW_F1]

everybody run there is a NASCAR fan out in the open.. We can't have those..

Its not paranoia?... Pleeeeeaase..
;)

I started watching F1 before I even knew what NASCAR was. I hardly even know anyone in New York City who even watches or cares about NASCAR..

so you are wrong buddy..

Oh.. And there is nothing wrong with defending something that is American.. It is called Patriotisim and everyone has fallen into it at some point.. There is no harm in that..

Oh.. And there is nothing wrong with defending something that is American..

Even the Ku Klux Klan?

[BMW_F1]

Even the Ku Klux Klan?

oh no.. f .u.c.k those those bast.a.r.d.s.

I think the key word there was "something" not "everything"..

[stephenw_us]

everybody run there is a NASCAR fan out in the open.. We can't have those..

Its not paranoia?... Pleeeeeaase..
;)

I started watching F1 before I even knew what NASCAR was. I hardly even know anyone in New York City who even watches or cares about NASCAR..

so you are wrong buddy..

Oh.. And there is nothing wrong with defending something that is American.. It is called Patriotisim and everyone has fallen into it at some point.. There is no harm in that..

I judge a man by what I see - so far, I'm getting from you - USF1 (good), F1 (bad).

This is just from this thread alone:

_____

F1 is always been more about the car than its drivers..

everyone knows that the car is the most important ingredient in winning.

Kovalainen. a driver so slow that his only win after two years driving for a top team, came at the expense of Massa retiring from the lead.

Trulli . a driver on the verge of retiring from Formula 1.

Glock.. the best driver from this bunch but he's nothing special really

I see you have some strong feelings attached to the biggest cheat in Formula 1 history

I understand that Michael was a great driver however his triumphs cannot all be attributed to his excellent driving skills.
_____


Like I said, I get it.

oh no.. f .u.c.k those those bast.a.r.d.s.

I think the key word there was "something" not "everything"..

Fair enough, although technically the correct terminology should have been "some things", not "something", as "something" used in corrolation with your statement does imply an inclusiveness that "some things" would not.

But, 'tis but a trifle, a quirk if you will, of a language which, for the main part, you former colonials haven't quite fully buggered yet!

[BMW_F1]

.....
Like I said, I get it.

Anyone else could have said those things but you think it should be prohibited coming from an American and you immediately add a label to that person..

What kind of stupid reasoning is that.. ?

Formula 1 forums are infested with criticism and negative comments where probably 99% come from people who live outside the US and follow F1 very closely.. Actually you hardly find a good read where people/journos are praising Formula 1 for how wonderful it is. Most of the stuff is about crazy Max, personal agendas against mclaren and in favor of Ferrari.. Lewis' unfair penalties, Button is an undeserving champion, stupid rules or changes to the rules.. etc.etc, Its human nature, fans are never happy, they always want more - that is a trend I've started noticing as soon as I began posting many many years ago and it hasn't gone away..

so you think every freaking driven who's ever driven an f1 car is good and there aren't any better ones out there.. Are you fu**** serious..?

I cannot say Slowalainen sucks simply because I am American.. Give me a break man..

[BMW_F1]

Fair enough, although technically the correct terminology should have been "some things", not "something", as "something" used in corrolation with your statement does imply an inclusiveness that "some things" would not.

But, 'tis but a trifle, a quirk if you will, of a language which, for the main part, you former colonials haven't quite fully buggered yet!

cool dude.. yeah,, I know is some things.. I just write it that way.

[stephenw_us]

Anyone else could have said those things but you think it should be prohibited coming from an American and you immediately add a label to that person..

What kind of stupid reasoning is that.. ?

Formula 1 forums are infested with criticism and negative comments where probably 99% come from people who live outside the US and follow F1 very closely.. Actually you hardly find a good read where people/journos are praising Formula 1 for how wonderful it is. Most of the stuff is about crazy Max, personal agendas against mclaren and in favor of Ferrari.. Lewis' unfair penalties, Button is an undeserving champion, stupid rules or changes to the rules.. etc.etc, Its human nature, fans are never happy, they always want more - that is a trend I've started noticing as soon as I began posting many many years ago and it hasn't gone away..

so you think every freaking driven who's ever driven an f1 car is good and there aren't any better ones out there.. Are you fu**** serious..?

I cannot say Slowalainen sucks simply because I am American.. Give me a break man..

Frankly this latest post from you speaks for itself.

All you have to do is look at the pattern on display here, you defend JML, a driver with no F1 pedigree, and then criticize the established drivers that the other new teams have hired.

You play the victim on this forum calling out the moderator to "protect you" then violate the rules yourself by cheating the language filter...

Speaks for itself.

[BMW_F1]

All you have to do is look at the pattern on display here, you defend JML, a driver with no F1 pedigree, and then criticize the established drivers that the other new teams have hired.

All I've said about Lopez so far is that I've heard that he is good - if you think that is defending him then so be it..
I'll wait until I actually see him race an f1 car to really rate him..
Just like last year when I knew nothing about Kobayashi, he then jumped in the Toyota for the last two races of the season to partner Trulli and he immediately caught everybody's attention.. He was so good that he was hired by Sauber and he was almost a backmarker in GP2 for the last two seasons AND beaten by his teammate, go figure.

Kova/Trulli/etc..etc.. are all known drivers and everyone by now should have a clear picture on how good or bad are they compared to other current formula 1 drivers..

Catch my drift?

[stephenw_us]

You are now talking in circles. It was you who made the claim in the first place that new teams hire unknown drivers...in an effort to defend the JML move by USF1:

"Most small teams start with relatively unknown drivers because their car will not be competing for the WDC so putting an Alonso or Kimi on their roster is a waste of money.."

Richard Branson and Tony Fernandes apparently didn't get that memo. Campos for that matter whom has gotten Bruna Senna, I'd say that is a pretty well known name...so that gets pointed out and surprise surprise you devalue these drivers in your next post....

And that's really the problem with trying to debate from an entrenched position along the lines of an agenda, rather than looking at these things with some kind of objectivity, the Argentine funding/Reutemann/Windsor connection is a real head scratcher, for the majority of the onlookers...

The open questioning of USF1's viability is not a Bernie Eccelstone led slight on the team, it's the direct reflection of what the team is doing...

[maximilian]

An idea: let's change the official name of USF1 to WTF1.

All in favor, say "I". :cool:

[airshifter]

And that's really the problem with trying to debate from an entrenched position along the lines of an agenda, rather than looking at these things with some kind of objectivity, the Argentine funding/Reutemann/Windsor connection is a real head scratcher, for the majority of the onlookers...



It's rather strange that you make such a good statement about not being able to be both sides of a discussion when you have an obvoius agenda.... but yet you then voice part of your agenda. ;)

So far it seems the only person viewing the funding as a real head scratcher is you. It's not as if the Argentine government and the US government made a financial deal. It's a new team in an international sport that hired a driver who happens to get support financially from Argentina.

I can't think of a single driver/team/sponsor list that is exclusive to a single country. If the big teams around for many years can't do it, why should we expect USF1 to do it?

[stephenw_us]

It's rather strange that you make such a good statement about not being able to be both sides of a discussion when you have an obvoius agenda.... but yet you then voice part of your agenda. ;)

So far it seems the only person viewing the funding as a real head scratcher is you. It's not as if the Argentine government and the US government made a financial deal. It's a new team in an international sport that hired a driver who happens to get support financially from Argentina.

I can't think of a single driver/team/sponsor list that is exclusive to a single country. If the big teams around for many years can't do it, why should we expect USF1 to do it?

Wow.

It's just a happenstance is it? Carlos Reutemann and his stints as governor of Santa Fe, no connection there huh?

All of the interviews and press releases about the team via SpeedTV in 2009, Sports Illustrated articles about the new US team bringing America to Formula One, ignore that shall we? Everything Peter Windsor told us, including multiple times that they would not turn to pay drivers, just erase that from memory?

I guess I can't respond appropriately, it requires the suspension of disbelief and I just don't have it in me.

[DexDexter]

Most team bosses nowadays are driven by PR motives and always sound political about stuff like that.. It does seem like he made it sound (superlicense-thing) like an excuse however it is valid one since those guys by the rules could not get the license, no one here has yet to provide some reasonable explanation on how Marco and Rahal would have gotten a license - all I read was that Marco has a famous racing Grandpa and that Kimi did it. They would be bypassing the rules.

As I mentioned earlier, if these two drivers were the real deal, I am pretty sure that they would have tried harder and really push the FIA to hand it to them but they ain't Kimi, that's for sure, so why waste your time on someone who is not going to be setting the world on fire (Marco ?.. pleaasse.. he can't even beat Danica). Maybe both Peter and Anderson realize this and don't want to sound too obvious and simply say they are not f1 material.. We don't really have any details with respect to the second seat but it could still go to Summerton who at least has some European open formula experience .

Now put yourself in their shoes.. Do you rather have in your team someone like Marco or Rahal, who have never raced in Europe and are not the cream of the crop in their respective racing categories, or someone who can bring some cash flow to the team AND/OR has some F1 experience in times where money IS short.

Bringing an American racer to F1 is something that’s not going to get done overnight..Peter for the past year has partnered with Rob Wilson and David Fleming in the UK to set up up a young driver search program. The idea now is to bring the same concept and make this type of program available to young American drivers – but it takes time because the only American kids at the moment with some real potential are too young.

I understand what you're saying and basically I don't disagree, I just think Windsor is making the superlicense thing as a scapegoat while in reality they need more money, there aren't that many promising American drivers and the few that might have enough talent are probably contracted to elsewhere.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I understand what you're saying and basically I don't disagree, I just think Windsor is making the superlicense thing as a scapegoat while in reality they need more money, there aren't that many promising American drivers and the few that might have enough talent are probably contracted to elsewhere.

I think you are right, everyone can obtain a superlicence during testing, even López will have to. However, I don't believe that even the most promising American talents (Summerton, Edwards and Hildebrand) are quite ready for F1 just yet. However, it is noteworthy that Graham Rahal might be out of his Newman Haas Lanigan ride because of lack of sponsorship.


Wow.

It's just a happenstance is it? Carlos Reutemann and his stints as governor of Santa Fe, no connection there huh?

All of the interviews and press releases about the team via SpeedTV in 2009, Sports Illustrated articles about the new US team bringing America to Formula One, ignore that shall we? Everything Peter Windsor told us, including multiple times that they would not turn to pay drivers, just erase that from memory?

I guess I can't respond appropriately, it requires the suspension of disbelief and I just don't have it in me.

Reality turned out to be harsher than he thought it would be - but I give you that he could be more straightforward about it. It will be only US F1's first year so there will be plenty of time to fulfill those promises once the early unpleasant compromises help stabilize the team.

[jens]

BMW_F1. I'm sorry, but what exactly should I interpret from your comments? That Trulli/Kovalainen/etc suck and Lopez is good? If so, then I'm in complete disagreement with such way of argumentation. Lopez would be eaten for breakfast by these drivers.

[BMW_F1]

There is nothing to interpret really. If you read my post carefully you can understand - it is in plain English . I simply said that I know how good/bad Kova and Trulli are and I don't know how good/bad Lopez will turn out to be..

Fair enough this time.. ?

I tend not to rate drivers based on assumptions, stereotypes, circumstances, etc,etc.. - I rate them based on what I see they can do on the race track.. .

Now, if the question is who would I hire if I was Peter and Ken and did not have any other outside factors influencing my decision, my answer would be a rookie and an experienced f1 driver - not necessarily a top driver so Trulli would do just fine.

[stephenw_us]

I think you only need to look to Force India and Lotus to see the model for having a nationalistic based team with the best drivers that are available on the current market to get a good start.

I think either you don't call the team US F1 and do what you did, or, if you want to be US F1 and hire your buddies protege driver, you don't make it an Argentina event, you bring the kid to the United States for the press event and you explain in an interview why its necessary to align with Argentine interests and finance. You address the issue.

I think it's ridiculous for anyone to say that JML is in a better position than Summerton, Rahal or Andretti, he hasn't even been in open wheel since 2006 - JML is there because of the link to Reutemann and the financing.

We obviously understand why it is happening but in this case US F1 has contradicted there so called "convictions" and I do think it is ridiculous that Peter is now claiming it's a super license issue - it is also just plain asinine to say that Virgin and Lotus have hired washed up drivers - on the contrary, they are showing a real commitment to being competitive by getting the best drivers available, and it's really an unbelievable level of squirming around the issue to claim that JML just "happens" to have government backing and that somehow other teams relationships with private international companies via logo sponsorship is the same thing as a direct link to another government when you yourself are claiming to be a team organized around nationalistic ideals.

And just because you "happen" to be American yourself, you don't have an obligation to defend the talking out of both sides of the neck that Peter and team are doing right now. It's embarrassing.

In short: Get Real.

[airshifter]

I think either you don't call the team US F1 and do what you did, or, if you want to be US F1 and hire your buddies protege driver, you don't make it an Argentina event, you bring the kid to the United States for the press event and you explain in an interview why its necessary to align with Argentine interests and finance. You address the issue.


I guess when you start an F1 team you can make those decisions. Until then, I'm sure the team really doesn't care what any of us thinks. I'd guess they are much more focused on trying to put together the team and the car.

Until we see what happens, they are just like the other new teams. Completely unproven and not expected to run with the big teams unless they remain in the sport long enough to better build the team.

You act as if all F1 teams do everything they say and explain their actions in depth in press conferences. Quite to the contrary, we often see promises of equal driver standing..... with one driver getting the new "equal" parts for the car as they develop.

[F1boat]

An idea: let's change the official name of USF1 to WTF1.

All in favor, say "I". :cool:

Great idea!

[stephenw_us]

"We’ve been offered well over three-quarters of our racing budget by two drivers already, neither of whom have raced in Formula One but both have won races in GP2. Both of them have massive sponsorship they can bring us from their home country. Ken and I have got to be very strong, look one another in the eye and say, ‘No, we’re not going to accept that money, we’re not going to hire those guys because we’re going to remain true to our convictions."


August 2009 – Peter Windsor, US F1 Team Principal


No amount of spin can make the above quote go away.