Tony and Kevin skiing together again?

[garyshell]

Kurt Cavin fielded a question I will quote from:


Question: If Tony George is in Australia skiing with Kevin Kalkhoven, how about a KV-Vision merger?

Kurt went on to address the rest of the question but said nothing about this part. Anyone heard anything about this? And if true, I wonder...

Gary

[Scotty G.]

Tony and Kevin love to ski. Don't know why they have to travel to Austria to do it, but hey, really rich people do those types of things.

As for a merger....don't see it.

Vision Racing was started, in part, for Ed and Lauren's benefit. For Ed to be able to race and for both to eventually own the team (once Ed is done racing). Merging with Kalkhoven and Vasser, only mucks up these plans and puts Tony even farther out of the loop of power. Let him at least run his own race team with his wife and daughter. Kalkhoven and Vasser have built a pretty nice outfit in a short period of time. Let them continue to grow and develop. They made big strides last year, even with a lower-tier talent like Moraes in the seat. Their cars were fast at most places last year (including Indy).

KV is going to run at least 1 car full-time again, with Tracy's part-time deal and a possible 3rd car at Indy. So there literally could be no change from 09'.

Vision only truly cares about Indy anyway, so if they scale back to ovals only or runs Ed on the ovals and a ride-buyer for the road courses, then it really won't be much different then 09' for them either.

I find this "Vision doesn't have the funds" stuff to be hilarious. Its not like Tony and the family are on welfare. Like all rich people, they are looking for someone else to help pay some bills. John Menard helped out last year. He still might for Indy this year. Tony still has contacts all over the world. He'll probably be able to find enough dimes and quarters in the seat cushions to somehow keep both is Indy Car and Lights team going. ;)

[Civic]

I thought it was to keep Kelley's employees employed.

EDIT: I missed the "...in part" part. =)

[Mark in Oshawa]

Tony and Kevin love to ski. Don't know why they have to travel to Austria to do it, but hey, really rich people do those types of things.

As for a merger....don't see it.

Vision Racing was started, in part, for Ed and Lauren's benefit. For Ed to be able to race and for both to eventually own the team (once Ed is done racing). Merging with Kalkhoven and Vasser, only mucks up these plans and puts Tony even farther out of the loop of power. Let him at least run his own race team with his wife and daughter. Kalkhoven and Vasser have built a pretty nice outfit in a short period of time. Let them continue to grow and develop. They made big strides last year, even with a lower-tier talent like Moraes in the seat. Their cars were fast at most places last year (including Indy).

KV is going to run at least 1 car full-time again, with Tracy's part-time deal and a possible 3rd car at Indy. So there literally could be no change from 09'.

Vision only truly cares about Indy anyway, so if they scale back to ovals only or runs Ed on the ovals and a ride-buyer for the road courses, then it really won't be much different then 09' for them either.

I find this "Vision doesn't have the funds" stuff to be hilarious. Its not like Tony and the family are on welfare. Like all rich people, they are looking for someone else to help pay some bills. John Menard helped out last year. He still might for Indy this year. Tony still has contacts all over the world. He'll probably be able to find enough dimes and quarters in the seat cushions to somehow keep both is Indy Car and Lights team going. ;)

I agree Scott, If Tony's whole point to this was to ensure Ed had a ride and a future stake in the racing business, going to merge with Kalkoven totally woudln't work. Maybe a merging on tech support might be workable tho, much like Ambrose's team in NASCAR is a satellite of MWR.

[Chamoo]

I agree Scott, If Tony's whole point to this was to ensure Ed had a ride and a future stake in the racing business, going to merge with Kalkoven totally woudln't work. Maybe a merging on tech support might be workable tho, much like Ambrose's team in NASCAR is a satellite of MWR.

Perhaps they could form a partnership much like Rocketsports and RuSport back in CCWS? R-Sport!

Vision and KVRT Racing could form a partnership and become perhaps one of the most ironic partnerships in the history of the Indycar Series?

[MDS]

Perhaps they could form a partnership much like Rocketsports and RuSport back in CCWS? R-Sport!

Vision and KVRT Racing could form a partnership and become perhaps one of the most ironic partnerships in the history of the Indycar Series?

Good one...

Normally for merger to work two companies have several problems that would be solved by forming one company. As a total outsider in this I don't see any benefits. KV has a talented driver but no sponsorship; Vision has a talentless driver and no sponsorship, one half and one-quarter doesn't make a whole.

[SarahFan]

Perhaps they could form a partnership much like Rocketsports and RuSport back in CCWS? R-Sport!

Vision and KVRT Racing could form a partnership and become perhaps one of the most ironic partnerships in the history of the Indycar Series?

would it trump PT racing for Vision or Foyt on the ironic scale?

not IMO

[Scotty G.]

KV has a talented driver but no sponsorship; Vision has a talentless driver and no sponsorship.

Good one.

For such a "talentless" driver, Carpenter hasn't exactly stunk it up at Indy in his career. Truth is, he is a damn good oval racer and is very good at Indy.

And which driver for KV is so talented? Tracy? Or are you talking about Moraes (who I think is gone anyway)?

Only in today's Indy Cars, could Mario Moraes be considered "talented". Yes his racing resume and his great results in his 2 years in Indy Cars just scream out "talent". :D

[Chamoo]

Good one.

For such a "talentless" driver, Carpenter hasn't exactly stunk it up at Indy in his career. Truth is, he is a damn good oval racer and is very good at Indy.

And which driver for KV is so talented? Tracy? Or are you talking about Moraes (who I think is gone anyway)?

Only in today's Indy Cars, could Mario Moraes be considered "talented". Yes his racing resume and his great results in his 2 years in Indy Cars just scream out "talent". :D

Well, I'm going to go with Moraes being talented. Whether it's been two years or not, he has proven he can drive the KVRT car fast. After all the personal issues began to settle (fathers death), he was kicking ass for JV and company.

Sure he likes to run into walls relatively frequently, but once he reigns that habit in, it will simply allow his talent to shine through.

[NickFalzone]

I just remember Dario's comment at Toronto, calling Mario "all arms and elbows" on that track. Not very complementary. I do think Mario has shown some natural ability, and has had some decent results here and there, but he's far too inconsistent to be considered a significant talent yet imo. KV has been giving him very good equipment, and he's done OK with it. I don't considered Mutoh to be a particularly strong talent either, and my guess is that if you put him in the KV car all season, he'd have similar results to Mario.

[MDS]

For such a "talentless" driver, Carpenter hasn't exactly stunk it up at Indy in his career. Truth is, he is a damn good oval racer and is very good at Indy.

And a liability on Roads and Street Courses, took Graham Rahal's chance to win at Toronto away with one of the dumbest mistakes I've seen in a while.

[Wilf]

And a liability on Roads and Street Courses, took Graham Rahal's chance to win at Toronto away with one of the dumbest mistakes I've seen in a while.

Being the second car through a whole is always a smart pass.

[speeddurango]

There are only "damn good" oval cars. Occasionally you would see a driver who is particularly good in traffic getting an advantage on ovals, like Sam Hornish Jr, but Carpenter is hardly Hornish Jr.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well, I'm going to go with Moraes being talented. Whether it's been two years or not, he has proven he can drive the KVRT car fast. After all the personal issues began to settle (fathers death), he was kicking ass for JV and company.

Sure he likes to run into walls relatively frequently, but once he reigns that habit in, it will simply allow his talent to shine through.

Roger Penske had that issue with a young Paul Tracy. I believe he said something to the effect that he couldn't teach fast, but he could teach patience and slow the guy down to not wreck. Is Moraes in that category? Jury is out, but his potential I think is better than Carpenter's. Carpenter is a decent driver on ovals, and wont do something stupid there, but on road/street races, he just isn't going to cut it with the top guys and compete for a win. Maybe something changes, but I doubt it.

[Chris R]

Good one.

For such a "talentless" driver, Carpenter hasn't exactly stunk it up at Indy in his career. Truth is, he is a damn good oval racer and is very good at Indy.

And which driver for KV is so talented? Tracy? Or are you talking about Moraes (who I think is gone anyway)?

Only in today's Indy Cars, could Mario Moraes be considered "talented". Yes his racing resume and his great results in his 2 years in Indy Cars just scream out "talent". :D
He is a decent oval racer - "damn good" is probably an over-statement.... if he starts winning on a regular basis we can upgrade that......

Moraes is probably more "talented" than Carpenter , but he is definitely more of a loose cannon sort.... really, in the end, I would not either one driving for me (if I had a racing team....)

[Scotty G.]

if he starts winning on a regular basis we can upgrade that......




When was the last time anyone outside the Penske or Ganassi armada won a race on a oval?

I will stand by my statement. Carpenter is one of the top-end drivers in the league on a oval and would win races, if in a Penske or Ganassi car on a oval.

And as long as Indy is a part of the sport, then that is important. Because being better at Indy is much more important then being good at St. Pete or Watkins Glen.

[Blancvino]

When was the last time anyone outside the Penske or Ganassi armada won a race on a oval?

I will stand by my statement. Carpenter is one of the top-end drivers in the league on a oval and would win races, if in a Penske or Ganassi car on a oval.

And as long as Indy is a part of the sport, then that is important. Because being better at Indy is much more important then being good at St. Pete or Watkins Glen.

If Vision could just get pesky Penske and Ganassi out of the way, then we would see how good Ed really is. Do you wonder why Penske or Ganassi are not looking to pick-up the Grandson's, Stepson's contract? Could it be he's just not good enough?

Anybody remember Salt Walther? His daddy bought him a ride at Indy too.

[Mark in Oshawa]

If Vision could just get pesky Penske and Ganassi out of the way, then we would see how good Ed really is. Do you wonder why Penske or Ganassi are not looking to pick-up the Grandson's, Stepson's contract? Could it be he's just not good enough?

Anybody remember Salt Walther? His daddy bought him a ride at Indy too.

Well we all know the truth, but Scott still believes in the tooth fairy apparently too..

[Easy Drifter]

I don't know where Scotty came from but since joining he is by far the most negative voice about IC I have seen.
Always promoting NASCAR and running down every other form of racing.
Most of us on here worry about IC and quite a few have put forth possible solutions to at least some of the problems.
Scotty reminds me of the USAC crowd that caused the creation of CART.
Stuck in the distant past of front engined roadsters.

[Scotty G.]

Well we all know the truth, but Scott still believes in the tooth fairy apparently too..

Good one. :p

Hey Marky, how do you think Dario or Briscoe would do driving on a oval for Vision or D&R? Think they'd be able to show much?

I could care less what some of you think. The TRUTH is, Carpenter is a damn good oval racer, who is clean, doesn't make stupid moves and the other drivers are comfortable being around on the race track. If you think that is the case with many of our current "stars", YOU are the one that don't know the truth. ;)

Put him in a Penske car on a oval, and he'd win races. Period.

[Chris R]

Drivers who could win on a current oval in a current Penske or Ganassi car:

Ed
Danica
Graham
Bruno
EJ
Justin
Tony K
Marco
and probably many of the rest of the field...

Again, I am not bashing Ed - he is most certainly a respectable guy and decent oval track racer - but being able to win in a Penske or Ganassi does not make him "a" list....

You may very well be right about Ed - but he has not shown it to be true and I seriously doubt he will ever get a chance.... Unfortunately, today's AOWR oval races are 95% car and only 2 teams have a great car 99% of the time right now....

Realistically, unless they really slow down the cars, I do not see how they can re-introduce the driver to the equation - they would have to slow them down to under 200 mph to really let the drivers have a go at it on the big ovals....

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't agree Chris, at least slowing the cars down. I think it matters little. The whole thing is if the formula is not changing, then the top teams can really refine and hone the cars down to perfection better with their better resources and that is giving them the edge. Slowing the cars down means little if you dont' change the formula, change the chassis. Any time there is change, new and other teams will find opportunity to win a race or two, and maybe be able to gain the momentum to change the status quo.

[Chris R]

Mark, I agree regarding the formula and how the top teams can refine a stagnant formula beyond the reach of smaller teams.... I would not advocating slowing down the current cars... I would potentially advocate a wingless formula that put alot more emphasis on car control and racecraft - but to make it safe they would have to be slower than current speeds. I also think slower speeds could open a larger variety of courses - places that are not safe for spectators or drivers at current speeds.... After all speed is just a number.... Basically, I think a driver needs to be able to make a mistake and recover (and survive) and still win the race..... I also think putting a driver in a situation to make more mistakes will probably improve the racing and re-introduce the human aspect of the sport.....

[nanders]

"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem." --- George Carlin R.I.P.

It's been awhile since I've been here but I couldn't help but notice Gary has the same old sig :)

Guys don't worry about the future of the Speedway. There was a lot of learning that went on over the last 15 years and there is a new generation of young people who love racing waiting in the wings. In the near future all that old contentiousness will become irrelevant ... it probably already is.

[garyshell]

Who? What? Me? Change? Never!

Gary

P.S. Nice to see you back nanders!

[Mark in Oshawa]

It's been awhile since I've been here but I couldn't help but notice Gary has the same old sig :)

Guys don't worry about the future of the Speedway. There was a lot of learning that went on over the last 15 years and there is a new generation of young people who love racing waiting in the wings. In the near future all that old contentiousness will become irrelevant ... it probably already is.

Boy..a positive guy. Cant have that around here...

Yup..Gary aint changed..and we like it that way.

[garyshell]

Aw, shucks Mark.

Gary