Who will be 2010 wet weather king?

[airshifter]

With MS heading back into the mix, and several younger drivers good in the wet, who will rule the wet races in 2010?

MS, Alonso, and Vettel alone should make it a show, but it seems that several more have the goods to perform well in the wet as well. Toss in some of the newer drivers without many wet drives in F1 cars and it could make for some interesting races.


The new fuel rules should also mix things up, but probably for less action. With no fueling to do, it's unlikely that anyone will dive into the pits and "roll the dice" with full wets or even intermediates unless it's already a sure thing.

[Saint Devote]

Any other time there would be a discussion - but in 2010 Schumi rides again.

Anyone witnessing his driving and that Alesi and Villeneuve had no answer to him in Spain in 1996 cannot but nominate the great German driver as wet weather king.

The Schumacher factor - the only driver racing today that in the wet can take a bad car - like the 1996 Ferrari - and win a grand prix in wet weather.

If it does rain at some grands prix and the Mercedes is even a reasonable car, there will be many on the grid wondering what they even got up for on Sunday.

As Frank Williams said when Schumi joined Ferrari and I think it is still valid: when Schumacher gets that car to work, then everyone may as well go to church on Sundays.

The sentiment remains true.

[Valve Bounce]

Didn't Adrian Sutil do quite well in some wet weather race until Kimi shunted him?

[CNR]

i hate to say this but add lewis to the list
Formula One British Grand Prix 2008

[christophulus]

Didn't Adrian Sutil do quite well in some wet weather race until Kimi shunted him?

And in China last year, 'til he threw it off the road all by himself..

Most drivers are at least capable in the wet, but the top three has to be (in no particular order) Hamilton, Vettel and probably Schumacher. Wet races with a full fuel load on board will be pretty interesting too!

[wedge]

Anyone witnessing his driving and that Alesi and Villeneuve had no answer to him in Spain in 1996 cannot but nominate the great German driver as wet weather king.

Only because Schumi opted for full wet set up whereas his rivals opted for compromised settings.

Only because Schumi opted for full wet set up whereas his rivals opted for compromised settings.

So he can judge the weather conditions better too, then, therefore adding to his Rain meister credentials.

Although judging the weather conditions better than Jacques "I'll start on slicks at Monaco in the rain" Villenueve isn't perhaps the hardest achievement.

[SGWilko]

Any other time there would be a discussion - but in 2010 Schumi rides again.

Anyone witnessing his driving and that Alesi and Villeneuve had no answer to him in Spain in 1996 cannot but nominate the great German driver as wet weather king.

Hmm, 1st or second lap in Monaco one year - Schumi drove into the wall all by himself. Wet weather prowess didn't help much then....

It goes to show that, while you can have top reactions in the wet, if the car aint gonna go round the corner, it aint gonna go round the corner.

[Sonic]

I think that was '96 as well when he smaked the wall just before the tunnel.

Lewis is clearly extreemly talented in the wet but IMO he is just behind Vettel and Schu for title of rain king. Based on the China display last year he doesn't know when to quit - how many times did he pass Kovy, p1ss into the distance, only to spin back behind him. His wet lines are as good as Seb and MS but he doesn't seem to accept the limitations of the laws of physics.

[jens]

There is one thing that we haven't seen yet and I'm really looking forward to witness one day: a proper wet weather battle between Hamilton and Vettel. When the setup is right, both are amazingly quick in those conditions, but somehow are yet to really fight together to see, how would they fare against each other. If Schumacher can mix it with these guys, it would be even greater. Sutil can have top-notch pace in the wet as well, but he is too errorprone.

Alonso is often regarded as a wet weather master, but IMO his raw pace in those conditions hasn't really been that special. He is more like a Heidfeld in those conditions - a strategist.

Hmm, 1st or second lap in Monaco one year - Schumi drove into the wall all by himself. Wet weather prowess didn't help much then....

It goes to show that, while you can have top reactions in the wet, if the car aint gonna go round the corner, it aint gonna go round the corner.

But it wasn't raining then, and the fact he put that dog of a car on pole was in itself a wonder.

[harvick#1]

I'm still gonna go with Vettel as the new Rainman

I mean really, he won in a Toro Rosso. and really when you look at more of the wet weather races, hes done extremely well like in 2007 in China.

China 2009 also showed what he can do in the wet.

but wet weather races are always the best

[F1boat]

Michael
Lewis
Vettel

[Hawkmoon]

I think age may have taken the edge off Schumi's wet weather skills. Towards the end of his career he wasn't dominant in the wet the way he was in the early days.

I wouldn't count out Alonso. He would have won in Hungary '06 by a mile if they had put his wheels on properly. He was also pretty good at the Nurburgring (I think it was) in '07, a race where Hamilton got well acquanited with the scenery.

[Saint Devote]

I think age may have taken the edge off Schumi's wet weather skills. Towards the end of his career he wasn't dominant in the wet the way he was in the early days.

I wouldn't count out Alonso. He would have won in Hungary '06 by a mile if they had put his wheels on properly. He was also pretty good at the Nurburgring (I think it was) in '07, a race where Hamilton got well acquanited with the scenery.

UNDERestimating Schumacher would be a big mistake.

The best advice to all the drivers likely to contend with him directly is prepare yourself as never before.

We have no idea what his comeback will bring - other than his past we have nothing to go on.

[Hawkmoon]

UNDERestimating Schumacher would be a big mistake.

The best advice to all the drivers likely to contend with him directly is prepare yourself as never before.

We have no idea what his comeback will bring - other than his past we have nothing to go on.

I'm not underestimating him at all. I just don't think Schumi at 41 is the same driver that he was at 26, in any conditions let alone the wet. If the Mercedes is up to it I have no doubt he'll be in the title hunt but he's going to need more help from the car than he has ever needed.

Let's face facts. He's been out of the sport for 3 years, he's old enough to be the father to some of these kids entering the sport and he's got nothing to prove. Is he going to hang it all on the line through 130R or Eau Rouge on a wet track? I have my doubts.

Besides, the Tifosi deep down inside me is still pissed off that the Messiah will be racing in silver rather than scarlet and wants to see him fail. Not epically fail you understand, just enough so that he spends the season looking at the rear wings of the Ferraris disappearing into the distance. ;)

[Saint Devote]

I'm not underestimating him at all. I just don't think Schumi at 41 is the same driver that he was at 26, in any conditions let alone the wet. If the Mercedes is up to it I have no doubt he'll be in the title hunt but he's going to need more help from the car than he has ever needed.

Let's face facts. He's been out of the sport for 3 years, he's old enough to be the father to some of these kids entering the sport and he's got nothing to prove. Is he going to hang it all on the line through 130R or Eau Rouge on a wet track? I have my doubts.

Besides, the Tifosi deep down inside me is still pissed off that the Messiah will be racing in silver rather than scarlet and wants to see him fail. Not epically fail you understand, just enough so that he spends the season looking at the rear wings of the Ferraris disappearing into the distance. ;)

I have watched Schumi since he drove his first race in f1. He redefined what is required of a formula one driver and his performances in a racing car were amazing.

Sepang 1999 that had Hakkinen totally nonplussed and afterwards almost passing put on the podium, declaring that it was the "hardest race" of his life. And in my view Schumachers greatest ever performance.

Osterreichring 2003, Magny Cours 2004, Hungaroring 1998 [one of his greatest where Brawn asked him to build a 25 second lead in 19 laps]

Each of these races had nothing to do with the car but everything to do with the driver - and each of these races Schumacher used a different approach.

I myself have voiced dowubts over him adapting, but over the past couple of weeks I have read through what it means to be Schumacher the grand prix driver, and I have changed my mind.

Is he going to "hang it out" as you put it - if he was not then he would not be returning.

Does he need the car more - he has never need a car to DO anything. Schumacher does it.

In the same way that Nuvolari - the man Enzo Ferrari during his lifetime said was the best that ever sat in his car - beat allcomers including the great Mercedes cars, and won the German GP at the Nurburgring in 1935, did not need any car.

Come Sahkir, I will be cheering Schumi and wanting him to do well, because his is a greatness that we have all been extremely fortunate to witness. Because he will be trying his best, and his sublime ability is something heroic that raises us all.

The tifosi - if you love something let it be free, as the saying sort of goes. If it comes back to you then it belonged to you, if it does not, then it never did.

Schumi belongs to nobody, and would do well for the tifosi to remember that Schumacher won FIVE world titles and tens of grands prix for the Scuderia.

And naturally nobody expects the tifosi to support any driver not in a Ferrari - but the tifosi love and inderstand formula 1 and when Schumi wins his 92 race I am sure many of them will inwardly be smiling - how can anyone not in love with this great sport not be emotionally touched?

It will be Michael Schumacher after all!!!! :D

[Saint Devote]

It'll be a story of three kings, and they are Vettel, Hamilton and Schumacher.. :D

If you believe that then, based on their performances over a season the easy winner will be Schumacher.

Why? Hamilton and Vettel crash - they are both impatient and find it difficult to remember strategy versus tactics. For them still the action of teh moment outways the result.

This is something that Schumacher has never suffered from and in his third year in f1 had already become the driver that was to win seven titles.

The only driver on the grid that is anywhere near as complete as Schumi is Alonso.

[I am evil Homer]

Well by that score Alonso has no chance...if you remember a certatin Fuji race where he put it firmly in the barrier.

[Saint Devote]

Well by that score Alonso has no chance...if you remember a certatin Fuji race where he put it firmly in the barrier.

Senna crashed at Monte Carlo.......

But Alonso has proven himself - both Vettel and Hamilton have obvious chinks in their armor.

In addition, Red Bull has technical weakness that costs. Remember in Valencia when the brake disc of Buemi exploded in the last quarter of the race? They failed to analyze that and it really caused damage to the RB and the TR teams at Marina Bay.

With a driver like Schumacher that sort of technical fault is not ignored.

Being teammate to Schumi did wonders for Massa it will equally make or break Rosberg.

[jens]

I think age may have taken the edge off Schumi's wet weather skills. Towards the end of his career he wasn't dominant in the wet the way he was in the early days.


I have questioned Schumacher's form in such age a few times, but I think if he is going to shine anywhere, it's most likely going to happen in wet conditions. And when we are talking about the end of his career, then IMO 2006 Chinese Grand Prix was a real standout performance, even in the context of his whole career - a win in an inferior car.

Add the fact that superior setups and strategies have often played a significant role in the wet weather success of the co-operation of Schumacher and Ross Brawn, they will be a very dangerous combination to anyone on a rainy day. And unlike 2006, everyone will have equal tyres, not what Schumi had in those clearly inferior crappy Bridgestones then. :)

[SGWilko]

But it wasn't raining then,

Oh dear, that's not one to keep on the CV, is it? How did he manage that then?

[wedge]

I think age may have taken the edge off Schumi's wet weather skills. Towards the end of his career he wasn't dominant in the wet the way he was in the early days.

China 2006 - only Bridgestone runner to qualify in top 10 and went on to win.


So he can judge the weather conditions better too, then, therefore adding to his Rain meister credentials.

Although judging the weather conditions better than Jacques "I'll start on slicks at Monaco in the rain" Villenueve isn't perhaps the hardest achievement.

Spa 1995 was far better and perhaps his best in the wet by holding off Hill (wets) and Schumi was on slicks.

[Ari]

There is one thing that we haven't seen yet and I'm really looking forward to witness one day: a proper wet weather battle between Hamilton and Vettel.

So Vettel overtaking Hamilton in 2008 to potentially see Hamilton lose the championship wasn't enough?

[ShiftingGears]

Oh dear, that's not one to keep on the CV, is it? How did he manage that then?

It was wet and trying to push early, and was the first one to arrive at that corner.

[Hawkmoon]

China 2006 - only Bridgestone runner to qualify in top 10 and went on to win.

I'd forgotten about that race, he was pretty good that day. However, I still believe that his age will have had a detrimental effect on his performance. As good as Schumi was, age has to have slowed him down. It's only the amount that I think is in question.

[jens]

So Vettel overtaking Hamilton in 2008 to potentially see Hamilton lose the championship wasn't enough?

Yes, it wasn't enough as first of all it wasn't a proper wet race (slightly damp in the beginning and in the end) and secondly it was a battle for merely a P4. :p : I would like to see them battling it out in a proper full wet race with both giving their all, not Hamilton conservatively cruising with P5 being his goal.

Going a bit further from wet races - Hamilton and Vettel have never fought together for the championship either, so I'm looking forward to this finally happening too. And neither have raced against Schumacher in any conditions. So I'm really looking forward to see this triangle battling it out against each other over a full season, hopefully in comparable cars.