Armed forces cars? [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

schmalta

25th February 2007, 06:05

Sparky1329

25th February 2007, 06:36

Ok I understand that it must come from a budget but is it the same one that they use for recruiters? How much is it? It costs a ton for a cup team, is the advertising worth it? How many more recruits do they get for our nascar tax dollars? What happen to home town recruiting? Can we see how this money is spent it should be available to the tax payers right?

Oh silly child. Taxpayers have no choice in the matter. We try to have a voice when we go into the voting booth but we're forgotten once the lobbyists start lining legislators' pockets. Home town recruiting isn't working so well now that signing on the dotted line gets you a quick trip to Baghdad. It's harder to put lipstick on that pig these days. Advertising is done in the hope that a few dummies will still think it's cool to shoot guns, ride in tanks and see the world. That would be the Iraq or Afghanistan portion of the world of course. It takes a lot of taxpayer dollars to convince dummies to volunteer for cannon fodder or RPG duty.

Lee Roy

25th February 2007, 15:26

Mihai

25th February 2007, 16:28

Searching on the link posted above I found this:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/02/images/20070205-2_d-0438-515h.jpg
President George W. Bush and 2006 NASCAR Nextel Cup Champion Jimmie Johnson meet in the Oval Office, joined by members of the media, Monday, Feb. 5, 2007, in honor of Johnson's championship NASCAR season. White House photo by Eric Draper

blakebeatty

25th February 2007, 16:43

i guarantee that the money spent on nascar advertising is a slight drop in the bucket of the military budget. and have you been to a race? there is a huge ammount of advertising and recruiting on the ground... HUGE AMMOUNT.

OWFan19

25th February 2007, 17:19

I was wondering the same thing about this very topic the other day.

If the sponsorship is the same as many other multi-million dollar sponsorships in NASCAR, I am a little dissappointed. When there are guys at VA hospitals in such poor conditions, that could have been enough money to fix it.

The Armed Services dont need to be wasting taxpayer dollars so they can play around at the track with NASCAR or any other series. Its one thing to do some promo's and what not. But the price of a fulltime primary sponsor is high, they can market themselves in better ways.

Lee Roy

25th February 2007, 17:31

If the sponsorship is the same as many other multi-million dollar sponsorships in NASCAR, I am a little dissappointed. When there are guys at VA hospitals in such poor conditions, that could have been enough money to fix it.

Those hospitals that were in the news the other day belonged to the Armed Services, not the Department of Veterans Affairs. There's a difference.

Lee Roy

25th February 2007, 17:33

The Armed Services dont need to be wasting taxpayer dollars so they can play around at the track with NASCAR or any other series. Its one thing to do some promo's and what not. But the price of a fulltime primary sponsor is high, they can market themselves in better ways.

I'm sure that if the funding spent on race car sponsorship was not reaping the desired benefits (recruits), the media and congress would be all over it.

OWFan19

25th February 2007, 17:43

Those hospitals that were in the news the other day belonged to the Armed Services, not the Department of Veterans Affairs. There's a difference.

It doesnt matter! The fact is, the Military and all of its departments in a time of WAR needs to be on the best budget possible. Spending Millions of dollars on a NASCAR budget is irresopnsible to the taxpayers funding the thing. It is irresponsible to any soldier that is forced to fight a war with insuficent equipement. It is just irresponsible.

Lee Roy

25th February 2007, 17:51

It doesnt matter! The fact is, the Military and all of its departments in a time of WAR needs to be on the best budget possible. Spending Millions of dollars on a NASCAR budget is irresopnsible to the taxpayers funding the thing. It is irresponsible to any soldier that is forced to fight a war with insuficent equipement. It is just irresponsible.

First: The difference between the VA Hospitals and the DOD Hospitals does matter. Sorry if you don't know the difference.

Second: Just where do you suggest that the military get these soldiers if we don't have a draft? If they aren't signing up in sufficient numbers, where do you get them?

(Note to all: Don't take anything I say here to be support for the current war or lack of support for it. I won't get into those discussions here.)

OWFan19

25th February 2007, 18:00

First: The difference between the VA Hospitals and the DOD Hospitals does matter. Sorry if you don't know the difference.

Second: Just where do you suggest that the military get these soldiers if we don't have a draft? If they aren't signing up in sufficient numbers, where do you get them?

(Note to all: Don't take anything I say here to be support for the current war or lack of support for it. I won't get into those discussions here.)

Good because this is a racing forum, I dont want to get into a political debate either. I understand where you are coming from, the VA hospital is an example. I think that if the military is trying to draw recruitments, then they can do it in more efficent ways.

Erki

25th February 2007, 18:33

Osella

25th February 2007, 19:32

Doesn't every NASCAR champion have to suffer meeting the current president as has been the case for years? I know Stewart and Kenseth have been to meet dubya previously. Makes for good PR for the president, but it's so sycophantic and false it's untrue!
But of course all the drivers have to say it's an 'honour' no matter how they feel, otherwise all republicans might boycott Home Depot, or Democrats DuPont paint etc...

In answering the point of th thread, there have been the same questions raised here in the UK about the army/RAF advertising on primetime TV (about $8m every quarter) when British soldiers have been killed because there was no body armour available for them!

But by the same token, you could easily argue for example that Ford should not be involved in motorsport at any level, let alone NASCAR as they are making people redundant and in severe financial trouble. And perhaps some sponsors like Irwin/DeWalt could provide free power tools to the residents of New Orleans to help them rebuild instead of spending money to get more people to spend money...?

It's capitalism, it's the way the world is, and unfortunately (despite Morgan Shepherd et al's efforts! ;) ) Motorsport has never been a moral arena.

tstran17_88

26th February 2007, 02:46

Advertising is done in the hope that a few dummies will still think it's cool to shoot guns, ride in tanks and see the world.

Oh silly woman. That’s the same mistake that arrogant putz John Kerry made. Most of this American’s volunteer Army, Navy, Air Force & Marines are college graduates with Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees and are smarter than all of us combined!

tstran17_88

26th February 2007, 02:52

Doesn't every NASCAR champion have to suffer meeting the current president as has been the case for years? I know Stewart and Kenseth have been to meet dubya previously.

But Nascar didn't want Kenseth to be the champion and instead of just letting Matt get to meet the prez...they sent along the nine losers behind Matt in the points to meet GW. So Joonyer got to meet him too. ;) As far as I'm concerned...Matt would have suffered more if Clinton was still the prez.

It's capitalism, it's the way the world is, and unfortunately (despite Morgan Shepherd et al's efforts! ;) ) Motorsport has never been a moral arena.Ya...shame on us for being a capitalist nation. I'm sure we'd be better off being pawns of Great Britain, like Canada still is, instead of being the world leaders in industry, science, technology and monies donated to third world countries the past 50 or more years.

There are more morals in America than all of Europe combined...give me a break! :rolleyes:

Sparky1329

26th February 2007, 06:37

Oh silly woman. That’s the same mistake that arrogant putz John Kerry made. Most of this American’s volunteer Army, Navy, Air Force & Marines are college graduates with Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees and are smarter than all of us combined!

Do you have a link for the demographics on that "most are college graduates" thing?

Osella

26th February 2007, 13:54

Ya...shame on us for being a capitalist nation. I'm sure we'd be better off being pawns of Great Britain, like Canada still is, instead of being the world leaders in industry, science, technology and monies donated to third world countries the past 50 or more years.

There are more morals in America than all of Europe combined...give me a break! :rolleyes:

What I said was, ya muppet, that it's the way the world is...
Now, the last time I looked on an atlas, that world included Europe, Australasia, North America, South America and every other continent, hell, even Antarctica is only populated by scientists because they're looking for oil deposits!!

As for having more morals in America than anywhere else, I would doubt that very much. For starters, most people are similar the world over (whatever politicians might claim!) so the level of morality is similar too I would think. There are racists in Australia, there are warmongers in Britain, there are thieves in Africa, there are murderers in the States, it's just the way the world is..

As to the question of the thread, no, I don't think that the Army should be spending money on a race program ideally, just as I don't think that Morgan Shepherd should be racing with Jesus saves all over his car, because there are gonna be people who don't agree with his religion, but that's just me.

I do understand advertising however, and if it works and people are given a good impression of the army because of Nadeau/Nemechek/Martin/Smith or whoever, then they've obviously got good reasons for justifying the budget, just like any other sponsor.

And maybe it is shame on all of us for our unrestricted capitalism...chasing the money to the detriment of society in many cases.

Chandler

26th February 2007, 14:02

Do you have a link for the demographics on that "most are college graduates" thing?

Watch it Sparky... I'm a collge grad who was in the military. I don't care if you don't like the President, big whopping deal, he's a politician. But be careful about disparaging the military, something you might not know about. Dis politicians all you want, hell both parties ask for it. But do NOT dis the military as "dummies". They are ones that allow you the freedom to call them dummies. You might show some respect.

And as far as your previous comment about recruiters having a hard time getting anyone to sign up for the military, that's also not true. The Marines and Army are meeting their recruiting goals. The Air Force and Navy are surpassing their recruiting goals.

Alexamateo

26th February 2007, 16:34

Quick note on the army and demographics. Most enlisted are not college graduates, but that has as much to do with age as anything, most 18-20 year olds are not college graduates(However most are highschool graduates, something like 98% as opposed to the general population rate of 75-80%). Many use the GI Bill as a means to complete their studies afterwards. Most Officers are college graduates with many taking part on ROTC and are commissioned as second lieutenants the day they graduate.

muggle not

26th February 2007, 17:06

On subject: Bottom line, the money for the "Service" cars come from the taxpayers. Most if not all branches of the service have spent considerable money to sponsor racing teams. Whether or not the sponsorship is cost effective I don't know and would bet that no one else here knows. Without the war in Iraq and Afghanistan we would undoubtedly see less sponsorship from the military.

So, when you see the Army car out there you have a vested interest in it. :)

Sparky1329

26th February 2007, 17:37

Watch it Sparky... I'm a collge grad who was in the military. I don't care if you don't like the President, big whopping deal, he's a politician. But be careful about disparaging the military, something you might not know about. Dis politicians all you want, hell both parties ask for it. But do NOT dis the military as "dummies". They are ones that allow you the freedom to call them dummies. You might show some respect.

And as far as your previous comment about recruiters having a hard time getting anyone to sign up for the military, that's also not true. The Marines and Army are meeting their recruiting goals. The Air Force and Navy are surpassing their recruiting goals.

I'm am not denigrating members of the military. Recruiters are targeting young people who have few choices or are uninformed about the tactics they use to get them to sign on the dotted line. It's all a PR campaign including logos on race cars.

If anybody is disparaging the military it's the C-I-C with budget cuts for veterans benefits. The "military" can sponsor race cars but they can't take care of those who've given more than enough and more than most. If that's not whacked I don't know what is. Thank you for your service.

ms0362

26th February 2007, 20:04

Stick to racing as the subject here folks.

Lee Roy

26th February 2007, 20:10

Do you have a link for the demographics on that "most are college graduates" thing?

Hey Sparky, I worked for the Department of Defense as a civilian employee for a number of years. The education of the members of the military is a pretty diverse thing. I don't know whether or not the word "most" applies as far as college grads are concerned, but I would be REAL careful making any broadbrush statements. Some of the smartest and most educated people I have ever met have been members of our military.

Erki

26th February 2007, 20:13

Is the National Guard also something similar to military?

Sparky1329

26th February 2007, 20:29

Hey Sparky, I worked for the Department of Defense as a civilian employee for a number of years. The education of the members of the military is a pretty diverse thing. I don't know whether or not the word "most" applies as far as college grads are concerned, but I would be REAL careful making any broadbrush statements. Some of the smartest and most educated people I have ever met have been members of our military.

Having known a few myself over the years, I agree.

luvracin

26th February 2007, 20:38

So, when you see the Army car out there you have a vested interest in it. :)

To be honest... I'd rather be paying for Kevlar "vests" for the guys "over there", rather than having a "vested" interest in a NASCAR.

Lee Roy

26th February 2007, 21:45

To be honest... I'd rather be paying for Kevlar "vests" for the guys "over there", rather than having a "vested" interest in a NASCAR.

Gotta have somebody to wear those vests.

Jonesi

26th February 2007, 23:50

Is the National Guard also something similar to military?

I'm assuming you're not from the US. The National Guard are reserve military that generally serve two weeks a year and one week a month, that are under the control/command of that state's governor. That makes it easy to call them up for regional emergencys like: Earthquake, flood, forest fires, etc.

Alexamateo

27th February 2007, 00:36

Erki, Jonesi meant to say they serve two weeks a year and 1 weekend a month.

Jonesi

27th February 2007, 01:00

Erki, Jonesi meant to say they serve two weeks a year and 1 weekend a month.

Yes, I thought I typed that. ;-)

e2mtt

27th February 2007, 03:19

As far as the Armed forces sponsorship, it comes out of the same funds that place commercials on TV & ads in magazines.

It is no diffenent than, for instance, M&M's deciding to spend part of their ad money on TV ads with jingles, part on the 38 car, and part on sponsoring events. As long as NASCAR give good exposure for your ad dollar, there will be lots of sponsors.

muggle not

27th February 2007, 04:02

Well so far no one has posted the "real facts" on where the money comes from for sponsorship of a Nascar team by one of the "Services". My previous post on the subject only told a little bit of the story.

Lee Roy

27th February 2007, 05:04

Not only does the Army sponsor a NASCAR car, it also sponsors a car in the NHRA, and sponsors a rider in professional bull riding. They're doing what they can to get recruits, not having a good time with NASCAR.

Chandler

27th February 2007, 14:14

muggle not

27th February 2007, 16:20

Advertising is done in the hope that a few dummies will still think it's cool to shoot guns, ride in tanks and see the world.

At what point do you not consider calling somone a dummy a shot at them Barb? I'm just curious. Because every time I call someone a dummy, I'm putting them down as being not smart, or stupid. Maybe you have a different definition of the word dummy.

If you don't like the military, then admit it. If you think those of us who join are "dummies", then say so. Because WE have given you the right to do that, and still provide that right today. But that doesn't mean that you have to put us down.
personally I think that Sparky's comment has been taken out of content and the meaning turned around. I will also make the comment, at the risk of people mis-understanding what I am trying to say, that there ARE probably some dummies that still think it's cool to shoot guns, ride in tanks and see the world. That statement in no way denigrates those that enlist and fight for our Country and freedom. There are intelligent people in most professions and there are also some dummies in most professions.

schmalta

27th February 2007, 16:41

I like to shoot guns. World travel is fun also. I think its cool to ride in tanks.
Add jets and boats in the mix also, ooh and fast cars, yep fast cars are cool.

I still would like some facts to support both sides of the Armed forces recruiting through nascar issue.

Sparky1329

27th February 2007, 16:46

personally I think that Sparky's comment has been taken out of content and the meaning turned around. I will also make the comment, at the risk of people mis-understanding what I am trying to say, that there ARE probably some dummies that still think it's cool to shoot guns, ride in tanks and see the world. That statement in no way denigrates those that enlist and fight for our Country and freedom. There are intelligent people in most professions and there are also some dummies in most professions.

Thank you. Some people read things that aren't written.

Chandler

28th February 2007, 01:16

call_me_andrew

28th February 2007, 05:32

And sometimes it's not clear what someone is saying on a message board.

The numbers put forther earlier are right. 98% of the military has a high school diploma, as opposed to 75% of Americans. Military members on average ARE more educated.

I'm sorry, but a high school diploma is not the be-all end-all of education (let alone intelligence).

Not only does the Army sponsor a NASCAR car, it also sponsors a car in the NHRA, and sponsors a rider in professional bull riding. They're doing what they can to get recruits, not having a good time with NASCAR.

I believe they sponsor one top fuel car and two bikes in the NHRA.

BenRoethig

28th February 2007, 08:04

Is the National Guard also something similar to military?

It's the modern decedent of the State militias. Unlike the federal reserves, guard units are under operational control of the states. During peacetime.

BenRoethig

28th February 2007, 08:11

I'm sorry, but a high school diploma is not the be-all end-all of education (let alone intelligence).

Plus skills such as air traffic control, equipment operation, aviation mechanic, avionics technician, etc. These "uneducated, unintelligent" persons usually make a pretty decent living once they get their honorable discharge unlike the hippie pukes who work at places like starbucks or McDonalds.

Chandler

28th February 2007, 13:21

Ben, I have to say... Amen.

muggle not

28th February 2007, 16:12

Ben, I have to say... Amen.

Geez Louise. Do you even know where the $$$$ for sponsorship comes from to sponsor the "Service" cars.

tstran17_88

28th February 2007, 19:16

Geez Louise. Do you even know where the $$$$ for sponsorship comes from to sponsor the "Service" cars.I take it your looking for a word called 'taxpayers'?

I wouldn't get bent out of shape about taxpayers footing a 15 million, give or take, a year bill to a team to put their name on the car when every time Al Quida takes down a jet...we loose one billion. But that's just me.

tstran17_88

28th February 2007, 19:30

Do you have a link for the demographics on that "most are college graduates" thing?It's tough to give you a link to a story when the story I heard was from a radio program. Sorry. But do you honestly think the liberal media in this country would publish a story like this and make it widely known? Of course not…then that moon bat John Kerry would loose what little credibility he has left.

I could give a little of my wife’s family history if you like? Her dad was in the Army, stationed in Korea, late 50’s I’m thinking? She has an uncle that is retired Navy, her sister was Air Force and then Air Force Reserve, her brother was in the Army during the Gulf, technically he’s not a vet because he was in Egypt as a MP…he also was in Panama right after the Marines invaded to take out Noriega. I believe he may still be Reserves or Guard…not sure. She has a cousin in Iraq that is lucky to still be around. His humvee was hit by an IED and the Air Force escorts along with him were killed. With the exception of her dad, they all are degreed profesionals (her sister has her Master’s) in one shape or another and didn’t join to ‘just shoot guns’.

tstran17_88

28th February 2007, 19:44

What I said was, ya muppet, that it's the way the world is...Watch the name calling, ya bloody ****er! :p :

As for having more morals in America than anywhere else, I would doubt that very much. For starters, most people are similar the world over (whatever politicians might claim!) so the level of morality is similar too I would think. There are racists in Australia, there are warmongers in Britain, there are thieves in Africa, there are murderers in the States, it's just the way the world is..
That’s a matter of opinion….yours being wrong of course. Which nation do you think contributed the most to the tsunami victims of Christmas 2004? Whether it was monetary, supplies or volunteers? I’ll give you a hint…it’s not in Europe.

As to the question of the thread, no, I don't think that the Army should be spending money on a race program ideally, just as I don't think that Morgan Shepherd should be racing with Jesus saves all over his car, because there are gonna be people who don't agree with his religion, but that's just me..And see this is were you are 100% wrong. NASCAR considers themselves and Christian organization…they do accept sponsorship from Christian organizations, and turn down sponsorship from say Playboy & Penthouse magazine. And like I mentioned before, I don’t have an issue with my taxpayer dollars going to fund a race team in NASCAR…its better there than funding the groups that tell me which ketchup, peanut butter or teas are better. That’s what Consumer Reports is good at…not our government.

Osella

28th February 2007, 21:35

Tstran, I am well, well aware of NASCAR's Christian values, which I totally disagree with (something to do with most wars being over religion etc, but no matter right now) all I meant was that obviously some people are against Military sponsorship on principle, but equally some people may well be against other forms of sponsorship for their own personal reasons...what's wrong with that, just 'cos 100+ people didn't like 'Ozzfest' sponsoring Derrike Cope, do they have any more valid opinions than 1 person who objects to 'Jesus Saves'..? The real issue is whether people are objecting to military sponsorship on moral grounds ("hey, don't use my tax $$'s for this") or the grounds that the military should reprioritize) (be spending their money on training and armour).
I think the latter, due to the fact that moralising could be used as an issue against any, or indeed all forms of sponsorship in racing (which was my point about Morgan Shepherd ;) ) or any advertising full stop..

And as for the donations to the Tsunami etc...well, look at New Orleans...
If you read carefully what I said, I actually stated that I doubt that the US has more morals than any other nation...I did not say it had less! Surely we all understand that 'not more than' does not neccessarily mean 'less than'.

P.S, The largest donation per capita (per person) to the tsunami fund was not the US, they weren't even close, and the largest individual donation from any one person anywhere in the world was from Michael Schumacher; who is, in fact, German. ;)

muggle not

28th February 2007, 23:20

I take it your looking for a word called 'taxpayers'?

Actually, no. Not the way you mean it.

Sparky1329

1st March 2007, 06:17

It's tough to give you a link to a story when the story I heard was from a radio program. Sorry. But do you honestly think the liberal media in this country would publish a story like this and make it widely known? Of course not…then that moon bat John Kerry would loose what little credibility he has left.

I could give a little of my wife’s family history if you like? Her dad was in the Army, stationed in Korea, late 50’s I’m thinking? She has an uncle that is retired Navy, her sister was Air Force and then Air Force Reserve, her brother was in the Army during the Gulf, technically he’s not a vet because he was in Egypt as a MP…he also was in Panama right after the Marines invaded to take out Noriega. I believe he may still be Reserves or Guard…not sure. She has a cousin in Iraq that is lucky to still be around. His humvee was hit by an IED and the Air Force escorts along with him were killed. With the exception of her dad, they all are degreed profesionals (her sister has her Master’s) in one shape or another and didn’t join to ‘just shoot guns’.

This is not even the point but since you raised it here you go. I don't believe what I hear on TV or the radio because talk is cheap.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda05-08.cfm

Several of my uncles served in WWII. One was severely injured on the battlefield in France and survived only because of the excellent care he received in a French hospital. I lost three school classmates who were serving in Viet Nam and have a cousin who served there. Another cousin was a Naval aviator who served aboard the carrier USS Coral Sea back in the 50s. Another just graduated from Appalachian State's ROTC program and is currently a Lieutenant stationed at Ft. Hood where he is processing in returnees from Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2004 another cousin came home from Mosul in a body bag. Whatever your point is is lost on me.

pvtjoker

1st March 2007, 20:04

We are having a discussion at work so I thought I'd try to get some insight from you guys...( and girls ).

The Army and other armed forces have race cars that they sponser. How do they get the money for it? Is it in the recruiting money that pays for it, or how does it work? Does it come from our tax dollars and if so is that right?

Each branch is allocated so much money for recruiting and advertising each year. Each branch has the freedom to determine where and when to spend it. I'm sure you've noticed but the Marines and Coast Guard opted not to sponsor a car this year are devoting more dollars to tv & radio.

pvtjoker

1st March 2007, 20:09

It's the modern decedent of the State militias. Unlike the federal reserves, guard units are under operational control of the states. During peacetime.

That is true. Under war time, Air National Guard falls under the juridication of the Air Force (Army Guard to the Army). However, each has their own annual budget separate from the Army and Air Force.

To take a step further, some states even have state guard who service as a back up or a support for the National Guard. They are comprised of mainly volunteers (18-67) who train using Army regulations/protocol 1-weekend a month, 1 week a year and are not eligible for sevice outside the state. In the case of the state guard, they fall solely under the jurisdication of the state Adjudent General and Governor.