Scandanavian swap

[Langdale Forest]

It would be interesting to run Rally Sweeden in August and 1000 Lakes in February.

Could this ever happen?

[Hartusvuori]

There are some economical reasons why event the scale of WRC can't just move around in the calender by snapping fingers. Especially if the event is profiled to be ran by certain time of year.

But sure - they do run winter rallies in Finland and summer in Sweden, so why not, but I don't think so. I think Finns are currently happy with Arctic Lapland Rally just as it is when it comes to bigger winter events.

[Tomi]

No point to swap, we already have a winter rally that uses some of the 1000 Lakes stages.
Also the Swedish rally stages are very good for winter rally, fast and demanding.

[Iskald]

No point to swap, we already have a winter rally that uses some of the 1000 Lakes stages.
Also the Swedish rally stages are very good for winter rally, fast and demanding.

And the Rally Norway stages are even better... ;)

[driveace]

the Hankki rally used to be in February,did,nt it Tomi? IS it still?
And that used 1000 lakes stages,is that the one you were thinking of?

[Tomi]

And the Rally Norway stages are even better... ;)

Much possible, but all winter rallies are nice to watch, and I think nice for drivers to drive too, soon as they learn to trust the grip.
Last year all the winter rallies was cancelled here in south Finland, because no snow and the roads where soft, now hopefully the weather remaines about like it is now, then there will be a few.

[Tomi]

the Hankki rally used to be in February,did,nt it Tomi? IS it still?
And that used 1000 lakes stages,is that the one you were thinking of?

Yes Hankralli usually is in February, but last year it was cancelled too, if i remember right. Nowdays Hankiralli is not run so wide as before, also 1000 Lakes does not come so south as before, so they dont use same stages anymore.
I think they still used when you was here, working with Toivonens.
But there is other rallies that still uses some of the stages of 1000 Lakes.

[pino]

I love both rallies and I love the way it's now, so there's not need to change it.

[Ghostwalker]

i wouldnt mind seeing some sort of alternation between Rally Sweden and Rally Finland.

I would love to see RS in a "summer outfit" it would be just as
great as in the winter.

[Langdale Forest]

Indeed, I like to see things differentley from time to time.

[Tomi]

i wouldnt mind seeing some sort of alternation between Rally Sweden and Rally Finland.

maybe but it wont not happen :) , not so long time ago some people seriously did belive 1000 Lakes would circulate, lol ridiculous.

[swordsman]

Rally Norway is another character than Sweden, I don't really think you can say one is better than another. Norway may be more snow-safe, but the character of the roads are quite different. Anyway, you already know that, Iskald :)

However, I think the facts about swapping are that the Swedish organiser would probably like it - at least give it a try. However, the Finnish organiser would probably not even dream about it.

Why? Snow rallies are more difficult to arrange. You need to keep stages , access roads and parkings free of snow. People tend to think it's cold and for the locals (that represents quite a big income) it's not an obvious excursion for the family - as a summer rally may be. Also, all kinds of commercial activities are more difficult in the winter. You can't just arrange a restaurant tent outside easily, etc etc...

So, I think a switch Sweden<->Finland would be a dream for the Swedish organiser, but only that..

[Langdale Forest]

Does Finland get more snow than Sweeden?

[swordsman]

Does Finland get more snow than Sweeden?

Can't talk about entire Finland vs. entire Sweden. If the question was does Jyväskylä get more snow than Karlstad, I would guess yes. It's around 400 km's further north. But that's just my guess... Never been in Jyväskylä in the winter, but some of our fellow forumers should easily be able to tell about snow situations there :D

[Iskald]

Rally Norway is another character than Sweden, I don't really think you can say one is better than another. Norway may be more snow-safe, but the character of the roads are quite different. Anyway, you already know that, Iskald :)


Of course I know this, I have participated in both rallies several times. And in my opinion, evaluating the rallies as a competitor, there is no doubt that Rally Norway is a much more demanding and exciting rally than Sweden. As I have also twice experienced (in Sweden) to drive a "snow rally" on gravel and mud, there is no doubt that Norway is a better choice.

But this winter it will be a very nice Rally Sweden with proper winter conditions. Its a pity that you never know from year to year what the conditions are going to be like. In Norway we have run three events with fantastic conditions every time...

[swordsman]

Of course I know this, I have participated in both rallies several times. And in my opinion, evaluating the rallies as a competitor, there is no doubt that Rally Norway is a much more demanding and exciting rally than Sweden. As I have also twice experienced (in Sweden) to drive a "snow rally" on gravel and mud, there is no doubt that Norway is a better choice.

But this winter it will be a very nice Rally Sweden with proper winter conditions. Its a pity that you never know from year to year what the conditions are going to be like. In Norway we have run three events with fantastic conditions every time...

Competitor-wise you may be right. And competitors always tend to get a big voice, sometimes maybe too big? There are spectators and commercial partners too... I remember for example Sweden 2005. It was a bit lack of snow, especially snowbanks. Some competitors were complaining really high before (and some after) the rally, but it turned out to be a really good experience to the spectators. With no snowbanks, cars were cutting corners and a new kind of challenge appeared... I'm not saying that's an optimal snow rally and of course a snow rally should be a rally with snow (not without), but I want to underline that the competitor point of view is just one out of many...

If there were many years like 2008 I would certainly agree with you. But that's just one single year so far, and from what I can remember reports I heard then told about lack of snow even on the Rally Norway stages at the same time - so that kind of bad luck can probably affect us all...

Personally, I think Norway and Sweden both have their charm and that both has a good place in the calendar.

[Iskald]

If there were many years like 2008 I would certainly agree with you. But that's just one single year so far, and from what I can remember reports I heard then told about lack of snow even on the Rally Norway stages at the same time - so that kind of bad luck can probably affect us all...


I don`t know where you have heard that, but it`s certainly not the case. Rally Norway has had proper winter conditions and lots of snow in 2006,2007 and 2009 - and the years inbetween it has been just as good. Actually you have to go back to 1998 to find any problems at all - and then only on the stages southernmost in the rally. The 1998 Finnskog Rally (near Kongsvinger) had to cancel a couple of stages caused by lack of snow, but since then all winter rallies in Norway has been run more or less as planned.

Another problem that we haven`t discussed here is that there looms quite a bit of uncertainty over Rally Norways future because of the catastrophal economic results both in 2007 and 2009. In worst case that could mean the end of the rally, unless some "rich uncles" (read: investors) pops up. I am regrettably not at all sure if Rally Norway will be run in 2011.

[Hartusvuori]

Never been in Jyväskylä in the winter, but some of our fellow forumers should easily be able to tell about snow situations there :D

For most of 2000 (decade) it was no snow at all until Christmas and it's so much dependant on the year - it changes a lot. This winter have been very good snow-wise (ie: lots of snow already, some 50-70 cm perhaps at the level of Jyväskylä), but the winter came in so quickly that the road surface underneath the snow didn't have enough time to freeze properly so they may go into very bad condition if used for rallying.

[swordsman]

I don`t know where you have heard that, but it`s certainly not the case. Rally Norway has had proper winter conditions and lots of snow in 2006,2007 and 2009 - and the years inbetween it has been just as good. Actually you have to go back to 1998 to find any problems at all - and then only on the stages southernmost in the rally. The 1998 Finnskog Rally (near Kongsvinger) had to cancel a couple of stages caused by lack of snow, but since then all winter rallies in Norway has been run more or less as planned.

Another problem that we haven`t discussed here is that there looms quite a bit of uncertainty over Rally Norways future because of the catastrophal economic results both in 2007 and 2009. In worst case that could mean the end of the rally, unless some "rich uncles" (read: investors) pops up. I am regrettably not at all sure if Rally Norway will be run in 2011.

Thanks for the correction, Iskald. That brings some new light onto the question for me, even if I still think that the two rallies are good complements of each other and that the WRC should continue with both.

Regarding the economical situation of Rally Norway I know, and that's a real shame. Nothing else.

[Tomi]

Another problem that we haven`t discussed here is that there looms quite a bit of uncertainty over Rally Norways future because of the catastrophal economic results both in 2007 and 2009. In worst case that could mean the end of the rally, unless some "rich uncles" (read: investors) pops up. I am regrettably not at all sure if Rally Norway will be run in 2011.

I think it depends much if you succeed in getting some other driver in WRC after Petter, if not the interest might fade.

This is the main reasons why im always against when someone start to, talking about do changes in our WRC rally, and same with Arctic too, both are extermely well organised, and on a solid base.