Haiti devastated by 7.0 earthquake

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm rather amazed that there's not a thread about this already. :confused: Estimates of the deaths range from 30K to several hundred thousand.


(CNN) -- The devastation was worse than he imagined.

At 5 a.m. Wednesday, John Restituyo began preparing to fly to Haiti. He had heard the night before that there had been an earthquake in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, but in Punta Cana, far to the east, he hadn't felt a thing.

He turned on the news, and then he saw what the fuss was all about.

The tremors that shook Santo Domingo came from a 7.0-magnitude earthquake that rocked Haiti. He was shocked, he said, that the nation that shares an island with his country had endured such a powerful quake.

But nothing was more surprising than what he saw from his helicopter later Wednesday.

"It's a complete disaster; like nothing I've ever seen," Restituyo said.

Aid worker says Haiti destruction 'sends chills up my spine' (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/13/haiti.aid.worker/)

[airshifter]

It is surprising nobody is talking about this. Until the real numbers start coming in I guess we can't be sure just how bad it is.

Several ships from the Norfolk Naval base were deployed in support of humanitarian relief and security. One of them has a Marine Expeditionary Unit on board.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I heard our Foreign affairs minister on the news say they are sending the Disaster Relief unit of the Canadian Army and the supplies are coming down on a frigate and naval resupply vessel. I guess they are going to send troops and some stuff by air as things get going.

I know there will be a bit of push on to do something. Montreal has a large Haitian community, and our current Governor-General was born there and she was also on the news with a tear in her eye during a press conference.

Why things like this keep happening to the poorest nation in the hemisphere is troubling....

[Easy Drifter]

Canada is sending a Destroyer and a Frigate loaded with relief supplies. They may have already left. Our DART team leaves in the morning. They are a special army unit that makes safe water in large quantities. At least one if not 2 of our new large military transports planes are going loaded to the hilt including helicopters to reach cut off areas. $5 million in aid already committed with more promised.
This is by far the fastest Canada has ever responded. Our PM was in the air when he heard and was giving instructions before he even landed.
Basically he also said 'I don't want to hear in the morning what we are going to do, I want to hear what we have done.'
With our military already stretched thin in Afghanistan this is going to be a strain but it seems it will be done.
Maybe, for once, the opposition parties will support the Govt.

[Storm]

Jag, if even a tremor had occurred in some uninhabited part of any 1st world country you would have seen a thread!

Anyways the papers here said there is a possibility of the casualties more than 100,000 (dead and/or wounded) :eek:

Terrible news, especially to a country ravaged by strife and poverty for so long.

[janvanvurpa]

The voice of the Religious Right explains why the earthquake hit Haiti:



http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/13/hai...son/index.html
From CNN
(CNN) -- Pat Robertson, the evangelical Christian who once suggested God was punishing Americans with Hurricane Katrina, says a "pact to the devil" brought on the devastating earthquake in Haiti.

Officials fear more than 100,000 people have died as a result of Tuesday's 7.0-magnitude earthquake in Haiti.

Robertson, the host of the "700 Club," blamed the tragedy on something that "happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it."

The Haitians "were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever," Robertson said on his broadcast Wednesday. "And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, 'We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.' True story. And so, the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.' "

Native Haitians defeated French colonists in 1804 and declared independence.

"You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other." Robertson has previously linked natural disasters and terrorist attacks to legalized abortion in the United States. Soon after Hurricane Katrina ravaged the Gulf Coast, killing more than 1,800 and wreaking unprecedented devastation on New Orleans, Louisiana, Robertson weighed in with his own theory.

Yeah that must be it.

[Jag_Warrior]

The voice of the Religious Right explains why the earthquake hit Haiti:



http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/13/hai...son/index.html
From CNN
(CNN) -- Pat Robertson, the evangelical Christian who once suggested God was punishing Americans with Hurricane Katrina, says a "pact to the devil" brought on the devastating earthquake in Haiti.

Officials fear more than 100,000 people have died as a result of Tuesday's 7.0-magnitude earthquake in Haiti.

Robertson, the host of the "700 Club," blamed the tragedy on something that "happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it."

The Haitians "were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever," Robertson said on his broadcast Wednesday. "And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, 'We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.' True story. And so, the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.' "

Native Haitians defeated French colonists in 1804 and declared independence.

"You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other." Robertson has previously linked natural disasters and terrorist attacks to legalized abortion in the United States. Soon after Hurricane Katrina ravaged the Gulf Coast, killing more than 1,800 and wreaking unprecedented devastation on New Orleans, Louisiana, Robertson weighed in with his own theory.

Yeah that must be it.

See, I grew up around people like that. So when some of you wonder why I can't stand lowlife, holier than thou, sanctimonious, a$$#####, like Robertson and others of his ilk, the above pretty well explains it.

I understand Fat Bastage (aka Rush Limbaugh) chimed in too. I don't know what he said, but I see something about it on Google News. That obese a-hole needs to just choke on a chicken wing and do the world a favor... and fall on Sarah Palin when he collapses.

[Jag_Warrior]

Jag, if even a tremor had occurred in some uninhabited part of any 1st world country you would have seen a thread!

Anyways the papers here said there is a possibility of the casualties more than 100,000 (dead and/or wounded) :eek:

Terrible news, especially to a country ravaged by strife and poverty for so long.

It's a terrible thing. These are rough times for most everybody - but even worse for these people. But if anyone wants to give (is able to give), here's a link to the Red Cross.

Red Cross (http://american.redcross.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ntld_main&s_src=RSG000000000&s_subsrc=RCO_Donate_OnlineGiving)

[Tomi]

The voice of the Religious Right explains why the earthquake hit Haiti:



http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/13/hai...son/index.html
From CNN
(CNN) -- Pat Robertson, the evangelical Christian who once suggested God was punishing Americans with Hurricane Katrina, says a "pact to the devil" brought on the devastating earthquake in Haiti.

Officials fear more than 100,000 people have died as a result of Tuesday's 7.0-magnitude earthquake in Haiti.

Robertson, the host of the "700 Club," blamed the tragedy on something that "happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it."

The Haitians "were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever," Robertson said on his broadcast Wednesday. "And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, 'We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.' True story. And so, the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.' "

Native Haitians defeated French colonists in 1804 and declared independence.

"You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other." Robertson has previously linked natural disasters and terrorist attacks to legalized abortion in the United States. Soon after Hurricane Katrina ravaged the Gulf Coast, killing more than 1,800 and wreaking unprecedented devastation on New Orleans, Louisiana, Robertson weighed in with his own theory.

Yeah that must be it.

Wonder how many there belive in thiskind of crap?
And also if this kind of menthal case supports some politician in public does the politician take distance to what the freak reprecents?

[gadjo_dilo]

Jag, if even a tremor had occurred in some uninhabited part of any 1st world country you would have seen a thread!



Well, I admit that yesterday I wanted to post a topic about it but as you very well underlined, I worried that nobody would be interested.

I almost cried when I saw the pictures. I lived a similar catastrophe in 1977 and these years we expect a new one.

[Mark]

Well, I admit that yesterday I wanted to post a topic about it but as you very well underlined, I worried that nobody would be interested.
.

As I always say in this situation. If you think it's strange there is no thread, it's because *you* haven't started one!

It seems that aid is making it's way to Haiti now, but unfortunately it takes time. There were pictures on the news last night of UK rescue crews at airports, ready to fly out.

It's also certainly true that most people don't know much about Haiti. Admittedly I only know, where it is, that it's very poor and they speak French.

[Tomi]

It seems that aid is making it's way to Haiti now, but unfortunately it takes time. There were pictures on the news last night of UK rescue crews at airports, ready to fly out.

It's also certainly true that most people don't know much about Haiti. Admittedly I only know, where it is, that it's very poor and they speak French.

The problem with thiskind of catastrophes are that they are always a bit different, and often the co-ordination of help and logistics takes time, a guy from red cross said in tv this morning, that in Haiti they have a relatively well working domestic help organisation, not every country has one, but hopefully the red cross gets it quicly under control.

[Daniel]

Jag, if even a tremor had occurred in some uninhabited part of any 1st world country you would have seen a thread!

Anyways the papers here said there is a possibility of the casualties more than 100,000 (dead and/or wounded) :eek:

Terrible news, especially to a country ravaged by strife and poverty for so long.

Storm, most people only post if they are affected by something or if it might affect someone on the forum. It's hardly a cheery thing that people want to talk about tbh.

[gadjo_dilo]

It's also certainly true that most people don't know much about Haiti. Admittedly I only know, where it is, that it's very poor and they speak French.

I think that this country is famous because of its former president Francois Duvalier, known as Papa Doc and his terrorist guards known as Tonton Macoutes. His represive regime made probably as many victims as this earthquake.
I think Graham Greene wrote a book (The comedians ) about it.

[Tomi]

I think that this country is famous because of its former president Francois Duvalier, known as Papa Doc and his terrorist guards known as Tonton Macoutes. His represive regime made probably as many victims as this earthquake.
I think Graham Greene wrote a book (The comedians ) about it.

And famous also of their voodoo religion, and if somebody smokes cigars they sure knows Haiti from their products.

[DexDexter]

I'm rather amazed that there's not a thread about this already. :confused: Estimates of the deaths range from 30K to several hundred thousand.


Aid worker says Haiti destruction 'sends chills up my spine' (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/13/haiti.aid.worker/)

That's absolutely terrible. BBC correspondent just said that there are bodies all over the place, bodies by the side of the road, some covered some open to elements.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Canada is sending a Destroyer and a Frigate loaded with relief supplies. They may have already left. Our DART team leaves in the morning. They are a special army unit that makes safe water in large quantities. At least one if not 2 of our new large military transports planes are going loaded to the hilt including helicopters to reach cut off areas. $5 million in aid already committed with more promised.
This is by far the fastest Canada has ever responded. Our PM was in the air when he heard and was giving instructions before he even landed.
Basically he also said 'I don't want to hear in the morning what we are going to do, I want to hear what we have done.'
With our military already stretched thin in Afghanistan this is going to be a strain but it seems it will be done.
Maybe, for once, the opposition parties will support the Govt.

They have no choice, parliament is prorogued anyhow....lol


As for your quote Jan, Pat Robertson ceased to be relevent with many on the rampant Christian right a long time ago, never mind the regular run of the mill conservatives.

In short, he is a joke, and in for a rude shock when he dies and finds out the hell the Haitians live through now will be repaid to him when they run heaven or something.

No little nation should suffer the way this one does, but one thing is for sure. It wasn't a deal with the devil...it is just the way nature works. Only a fool would believe otherwise...

[Eki]

I'm rather amazed that there's not a thread about this already. :confused:


There's not much I can say. Leaves me speechless. Words don't help and there's nobody you can blame.

[Mark in Oshawa]

There's not much I can say. Leaves me speechless. Words don't help and there's nobody you can blame.

No Eki, there is no blame. It is nature reminding all of us who really controls this planet. That said, Haiti is a nation that didn't need this kick in the teeth. Between 300 years of thugs, dictators, foreign rule and mismanagement, there is very little economy, only 1.5% of the trees are left on the country (look at the images of the border between the Dominican Republic to the east and Haiti on Google) because people have no fuel, and there are 9 million people. One in 50 has a job. This was BEFORE the earthquake.

Haiti is a mess....and it was said on the radio the international protocol dictates the leader of a nation must ask for help before aid from other nations is offered. This time, I cant speak for other nations, but our Prime Minister didn't wait for the phone call, he had the military preparing their aid teams and got on with it....

[Daniel]

No Eki, there is no blame. It is nature reminding all of us who really controls this planet. That said, Haiti is a nation that didn't need this kick in the teeth. Between 300 years of thugs, dictators, foreign rule and mismanagement, there is very little economy, only 1.5% of the trees are left on the country (look at the images of the border between the Dominican Republic to the east and Haiti on Google) because people have no fuel, and there are 9 million people. One in 50 has a job. This was BEFORE the earthquake.

Haiti is a mess....and it was said on the radio the international protocol dictates the leader of a nation must ask for help before aid from other nations is offered. This time, I cant speak for other nations, but our Prime Minister didn't wait for the phone call, he had the military preparing their aid teams and got on with it....
:)

It's good to see that although people disagree on a lot of things you guys can agree on the important things at a time like this :)

[Mark in Oshawa]

:)

It's good to see that although people disagree on a lot of things you guys can agree on the important things at a time like this :)

Eki and I probably agree on more than we realize. I don't think Eki is all wrong with his instincts on some issues either, we just disagree on how to get there.

This Haitian disaster is apolitical, and human lives are being lost. Heck, this country was a disaster before this. There is talk that the only way you would get this country back on its feet if out of the 8 million people, you took 7.5 million of them and resettled them elsewhere. THAT isn't practical, nor humane, but neither is letting a country live with no hope.

[Tomi]

Haiti is a mess....and it was said on the radio the international protocol dictates the leader of a nation must ask for help before aid from other nations is offered. This time, I cant speak for other nations, but our Prime Minister didn't wait for the phone call, he had the military preparing their aid teams and got on with it....

This is how the procedure goes, but I guess in every country when things like this happens, the preparation to send help starts emidetly, usually the request for help comes in a few hours, my guess is that from here the first aid is about same that we sent to China when they had the same situation, mobile hospitals with crews, perhaps so called ruin dogs too and other personnel trained for crises situations.

[Mark in Oshawa]

This is how the procedure goes, but I guess in every country when things like this happens, the preparation to send help starts emidetly, usually the request for help comes in a few hours, my guess is that from the first aid is about same that we sent to China when they had the same situation, mobile hospitals with crews, perhaps so called ruin dogs too and other personnel trained for crises situations.

In the case of China, countries prepared, but waited for the Chinese government to phone and let them know where to help. The US accepted some help with Katrina from Canada because we had people in the area already, but again, the offer for help was made and the US gov't made that decision. In Haiti's case, no phone calls were made or expected. The Quake happened, and the DART unit of the Canadian Military was being loaded within 12 hours and the C-17 carrying it was in the air within the day. The provision ships were at sail within 24 hours...there is no protocol being observed, Haiti is getting the help no matter what they do. THAT is unusual.

[Tomi]

In the case of China, countries prepared, but waited for the Chinese government to phone and let them know where to help. The US accepted some help with Katrina from Canada because we had people in the area already, but again, the offer for help was made and the US gov't made that decision. In Haiti's case, no phone calls were made or expected. The Quake happened, and the DART unit of the Canadian Military was being loaded within 12 hours and the C-17 carrying it was in the air within the day. The provision ships were at sail within 24 hours...there is no protocol being observed, Haiti is getting the help no matter what they do. THAT is unusual.

But things with china and us compaired to haiti is totally different, to haiti asking for help if can not handle something is not a question of prestige.
If there is anything good with this earthquake, then it is that the area is quite small compaired to the tsunami, and I think its easy to get the help there, if no other way, then truh Dominican Republic, hopefully their roads there are better than 15 years back

[Mark in Oshawa]

But things with china and us compaired to haiti is totally different, to haiti asking for help if can not handle something is not a question of prestige.
If there is anything good with this earthquake, then it is that the area is quite small compaired to the tsunami, and I think its easy to get the help there, if no other way, then truh Dominican Republic, hopefully their roads there are better than 15 years back
You are right on the prestege. Haiti has no pretensions, they were a disaster before the quake. As for the roads, I doubt they are anything but worse...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Its nice to see that all the so called "evil" nations of the world like America, United Kingdom, Canada, etc etc supplying aid to this devastated region. I'm sure all the countries harbouring terrorists will be following suit very shortly..Such a terrible natural disaster with so many innocent people killed...I hope the death toll is alot lower than expected.. :(

Apparently us evil Christian, Western Nations were evil for helping Muslims in Indonesia after the disaster there if you listen to the extermists.

As I said, in a world full of nations with various shades of gray, Notice which nations are the first to rush to help.....

I think no matter what people might think of the US or The UK or whatever, there is nothing in this for them in helping the Haitians, or the Indonesians and others who were suffering....but yet they are the world's "evil" empire? I don't get this mentality...

[Tomi]

As I said, in a world full of nations with various shades of gray, Notice which nations are the first to rush to help.....
The French was i guess the first to help, even they did not make so big deal of announcing being the first.

[Robinho]

saw some footage on the Channel 4 news earlier, truly horrific, bodies everywhere, trapped, by the roads, at the hospitals, the churches. just hope the aid effort is able to get through and be coordinated to help.

its far too late to help some of the poor souls, but the survivors are in desperate trouble, with the bodies will come disease, there is no water or power in many areas, the hospitals are a mess, the dr's are ignoring anything but the most serious injuries, there is nowhere to operate, truly horrible.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The French was i guess the first to help, even they did not make so big deal of announcing being the first.

Nothing wrong with the French....did I say there was?

[Tomi]

Nothing wrong with the French....did I say there was?

No i just said that they was first to help, so people understand its not a competition who is first, but everyone does what they can to help the Haitians.

[Mark in Oshawa]

No i just said that they was first to help, so people understand its not a competition who is first, but everyone does what they can to help the Haitians.

I agree. I suspect who was first is not going to matter in the end. I just heard on the radio apparently our government now is going to loosen up the regs on what is family for family reunification immigrants, and maybe by pass some red tape. I guess Montreal is going to become more Haitian in the next year....

[Mark in Oshawa]

I'm glad when I named the countries in my post, I used the term "etc"... Covered myself with that badboy.. :)

Henners..it is always fun to stick your foot in your mouth..c' mon!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

lol... I'm British, I do it on a daily basis its bred into us... :p

I am of Irish and Scot ancestry, i suspect it is bred into my DNA....

[gadjo_dilo]

There is talk that the only way you would get this country back on its feet if out of the 8 million people, you took 7.5 million of them and resettled them elsewhere. THAT isn't practical, nor humane, but neither is letting a country live with no hope.

But where can 7.5 mil be people resettled? And how can they start a new life having nothing?

Sending help is really a great thing but at the end of the day it's a massage to a wooden leg.
In such cases the help consists of medical assistance, medicines, blankets, food, water. But what will the people who don't have a roof above their heads do in the future?

[Tomi]

Sending help is really a great thing but at the end of the day it's a massage to a wooden leg.
In such cases the help consists of medical assistance, medicines, blankets, food, water. But what will the people who don't have a roof above their heads do in the future?

Stuff like that is the first aid, how to rebuild have to be desided later, maybe simular system like it was with the tsunami would be good way to do it.

[Easy Drifter]

Right now relief flights are arriving faster than the damaged airport can handle them. Our huge CF17 transport had to circle for close to 5 hours before it could land. On board was Canada's DART team which, among other things can produce between 50,000 and 100,000 litres of pure water a day. A despeately needed commodity. One of our Hercules transports had to go to the Dominican Republic to refuel as it couldn't get clearance to land.
Now that the US military has taken over control at the airport things will improve I hope.

[Mark]

Now that the US military has taken over control at the airport things will improve I hope.

They were saying on the news that many of the officials in goverment and other NGO's on the ground, obviously live in the country and pretty much everyone has been affected in some way, so there isn't the people on the ground to organise these sorts of things.

So they need the likes of the US forces to come in and take charge of operations while the government gets back on its feet.

[DexDexter]

Apparently us evil Christian, Western Nations were evil for helping Muslims in Indonesia after the disaster there if you listen to the extermists.

As I said, in a world full of nations with various shades of gray, Notice which nations are the first to rush to help.....

I think no matter what people might think of the US or The UK or whatever, there is nothing in this for them in helping the Haitians, or the Indonesians and others who were suffering....but yet they are the world's "evil" empire? I don't get this mentality...

I don't get it either, the fact is that when something really bad happens, Western countries that are the only ones who really can send help and do it quickly. But even that might not be appreciated, I'm not referring to Haiti obviously. It's just sad.

[gadjo_dilo]

I don't get it either, the fact is that when something really bad happens, Western countries that are the only ones who really can send help and do it quickly. But even that might not be appreciated, I'm not referring to Haiti obviously. It's just sad.

Well, to say it in simple words: I know a man who is wealthy due to corruption/robbery/abuse/crime/etc. Sometimes this man offers important sums for charity. Can I appreciate this man? :laugh:

Now on a serious note: to help people in serious need is still a part of our human nature. Humanitarian acts should be done without expecting appreciation. Otherwise we can get the ( wrong? ) idea they were made to boost the image.

[Tomi]

Now on a serious note: to help people in serious need is still a part of our human nature. Humanitarian acts should be done without expecting appreciation. Otherwise we can get the ( wrong? ) idea they were made to boost the image.

well said, completely agree.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So looks like they aid campaign is about to start.

I know somewhere they can ask - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8461285.stm

Or how about here - http://www.fredgoodwin.net/

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Nothing wrong with the French....did I say there was?

In the 2004 Tsunami didn't Australia pledge about $60 per person, Canada about $20, UK - $12, US -$9 and the French manage about $0.90 per person.

[gadjo_dilo]

In the 2004 Tsunami didn't Australia pledge about $60 per person, Canada about $20, UK - $12, US -$9 and the French manage about $0.90 per person.

See? That's why marxism proved to be a utopia. Because the marxist principle " from everybody according to their possibilities, to everybody according to their needs " is imposible to apply.

[anthonyvop]

Things are deteriorating quickly in Haiti.

Roving gangs of machete wielding looters. Mobs are starting to form.

Quietly the US is sending more troops for much needed security.

I know of two groups of private security teams beings sent to Haiti to secure industrial sites and extract some executives and their families

They have have temporarily stopped flights into PoP due to a lack of space and fuel.

The Dominican Republic is gearing up to combat a major refugee influx. The DR already has a problem with illegal Haitian immigration. Over 1 Million Haitians are in the DR already. This has been a major issue in the DR and it poised to get Uglier.

BTW
I am no fan of Pat Robertson....but...what he stated is a common belief among Haitians.

[Hondo]

I'm rather amazed that there's not a thread about this already. :confused: Estimates of the deaths range from 30K to several hundred thousand.


Aid worker says Haiti destruction 'sends chills up my spine' (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/13/haiti.aid.worker/)

Jag, at the risk of being trounced like I was on the Uganda/Homosexual thing, I will attempt to answer your question all political correctness aside.

Haitians don't seemed to be well liked by anyone, anywhere. All outside attempts at bringing stability and prosperity to the country have been soundly defeated by the residents. Nobody even tries anymore. Corruption is the GNP. Haiti is poor, uneducated, corrupt, and black. They were one step away from becoming like Somalia. This will put them over the edge. Local gangs and warlords are going to hinder and try to control all relief efforts. This is their big chance. The world will provide enough assistance to where, in these hard economic times, they can walk away saying we've done all we can... Nobody is going to want to put troops on the ground although the French with the Legion is probably the best bet. Simply put, no nation out there wants to be stuck "adopting" Haiti over the long term. It's going to be a messy, no win situation. Similar to New Orleans/Katrina, aid organizations can't just go plowing in there, they have to be requested by local authorities and be told where they can set up.

The Haitians are in for a rough ride.

[Mark in Oshawa]

In the 2004 Tsunami didn't Australia pledge about $60 per person, Canada about $20, UK - $12, US -$9 and the French manage about $0.90 per person.

The Aussies had Indonesia in their backyard, with Haiti, it will be us and the Americans that will bear the brunt of the relief.

I guess we do need to get away from the scorecard mentality of all.

Also, that 9 dollars for the Americans is counteracted by That evil mean George W. Bush sending a carrier group in there and having the US Navy do search and rescue work, and help out on the ground setting up relief camps and providing help, only to have the Indonesian gov't tell them to get lost. THAT really ticked off some people, and after a few days Djarkarta changed their mind, but that doesn't exactly help with how people felt.

The Haitans are in no position to turn down help. The country was pretty much a basket case before the quake, now it is a rudderless ship...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jag, at the risk of being trounced like I was on the Uganda/Homosexual thing, I will attempt to answer your question all political correctness aside.

Haitians don't seemed to be well liked by anyone, anywhere. All outside attempts at bringing stability and prosperity to the country have been soundly defeated by the residents. Nobody even tries anymore. Corruption is the GNP. Haiti is poor, uneducated, corrupt, and black. They were one step away from becoming like Somalia. This will put them over the edge. Local gangs and warlords are going to hinder and try to control all relief efforts. This is their big chance. The world will provide enough assistance to where, in these hard economic times, they can walk away saying we've done all we can... Nobody is going to want to put troops on the ground although the French with the Legion is probably the best bet. Simply put, no nation out there wants to be stuck "adopting" Haiti over the long term. It's going to be a messy, no win situation. Similar to New Orleans/Katrina, aid organizations can't just go plowing in there, they have to be requested by local authorities and be told where they can set up.

The Haitians are in for a rough ride.

In defence of the Haitians, we have a pretty good sized community of them in Quebec, and our current Governor General is originally from there. If she is anything to go buy, they are not a bad people at all....

She is beautiful and smart, and has won a lot of people over....

[Tomi]

Haitians don't seemed to be well liked by anyone, anywhere. All outside attempts at bringing stability and prosperity to the country have been soundly defeated by the residents. Nobody even tries anymore. Corruption is the GNP. Haiti is poor, uneducated, corrupt, and black. They were one step away from becoming like Somalia. This will put them over the edge. Local gangs and warlords are going to hinder and try to control all relief efforts. This is their big chance. The world will provide enough assistance to where, in these hard economic times, they can walk away saying we've done all we can... Nobody is going to want to put troops on the ground although the French with the Legion is probably the best bet. Simply put, no nation out there wants to be stuck "adopting" Haiti over the long term. It's going to be a messy, no win situation. Similar to New Orleans/Katrina, aid organizations can't just go plowing in there, they have to be requested by local authorities and be told where they can set up.

The Haitians are in for a rough ride.

Agree, especially the the Legion would be a good idea, it was in tv yesterday that the French already have sent the some security force, gendarmerie I think.

[Hondo]

I don't know if they're good bad or whatever. I don't recall ever meeting anyone from Haiti. I merely wrote what I have read and heard from others. Seems like I recall them once being a problem in south Florida, but I don't know. Tonyvop may know. I'd bet they are going to start getting angry that aid is taking so long to get there, just like New Orleans. They just won't be able to blame it on Bush this time. I think anarchy will be the new government of Haiti for a long time to come. They will start their rampaging pretty soon and that will be the end of it. The vast majority of the country's income and therefore food, etc., comes from the evil USA and Canada as it is. There is not enough you can do for Haiti that will ever be enough to suit them. They are content to live on handouts.

[Tomi]

I don't know if they're good bad or whatever. I don't recall ever meeting anyone from Haiti. I merely wrote what I have read and heard from others. Seems like I recall them once being a problem in south Florida, but I don't know. Tonyvop may know. I'd bet they are going to start getting angry that aid is taking so long to get there, just like New Orleans. They just won't be able to blame it on Bush this time. I think anarchy will be the new government of Haiti for a long time to come. They will start their rampaging pretty soon and that will be the end of it. The vast majority of the country's income and therefore food, etc., comes from the evil USA and Canada as it is. There is not enough you can do for Haiti that will ever be enough to suit them. They are content to live on handouts.

i was thinking again from a language point of view, that already helps much if get understood, to avoid conflicts.

[Hondo]

Since I've now seen some news stories on this, one question I have is where are their fellow Haitians? This quake devaststed one city, not the entire country. Are their countrymen trying to bring food, water and aid to the capital? Are they opening their homes to refugees? Are they doing it and the press just isn't reporting it or are they doing nothing since it isn't their problem?

[Tomi]

Since I've now seen some news stories on this, one question I have is where are their fellow Haitians? This quake devaststed one city, not the entire country. Are their countrymen trying to bring food, water and aid to the capital? Are they opening their homes to refugees? Are they doing it and the press just isn't reporting it or are they doing nothing since it isn't their problem?

Now you got it, the press shows and tell very selected news, now it looks like the haitians does nothing, when they does the most offcourse.

[Jag_Warrior]

Since I've now seen some news stories on this, one question I have is where are their fellow Haitians? This quake devaststed one city, not the entire country. Are their countrymen trying to bring food, water and aid to the capital? Are they opening their homes to refugees? Are they doing it and the press just isn't reporting it or are they doing nothing since it isn't their problem?

I have read that Haitian expats are organizing relief efforts. As for what Haitians in other parts of the country are doing, I don't know. I would assume that many of them have/had family members in the capital and they would certainly help who they could help... with what little they have. It's not as if south central L.A. got hit with a massive quake and the people in Beverly Hills and Palos Verdes aren't opening up their McMansions to them.

[Easy Drifter]

Part of the problem is that the infastructure is demolished. There is no power, no communications working and all the streets are blocked with rubble. You can't just bulldoze the roads clear as there quite likely are survivors under the debris. Getting aid in is going to be difficult.
I know we sent a helicopter in with the CF17 and there is at least one large one on our warships arriving Mon. I am sure the US has sent choppers but even then fuel will have to be sent. The harbour is damaged so there may be difficulty in landing supplies from the relief ships.
Basically bases will have to be built/set up to get things going.
Canada had around 50 of our police, mostly RCMP, already there training the Haitian police.

[anthonyvop]

Since I've now seen some news stories on this, one question I have is where are their fellow Haitians? This quake devaststed one city, not the entire country. Are their countrymen trying to bring food, water and aid to the capital? Are they opening their homes to refugees? Are they doing it and the press just isn't reporting it or are they doing nothing since it isn't their problem?

Sadly all of the media is being directed to the Capital. Other towns and cities have been devastated as well.

A little background:
I lived in the Dominican Republic for 6 years and still visit 3-4 times a year. I have family and friends there.
I have been to Haiti more than 2 dozen times. I have done business there and have friends there.

It is getting ugly there. Really Ugly. Obama drop the political correctness and stop with the daily press conferences and send troops. Work with other regional nations.

Without security any rescue or humanitarian effort will be wasted.

[Jag_Warrior]

What politial correctness? A handful of troops are there now. But I just read that 10,000 U.S troops, including 2,200 Marines, will be in Haiti by Monday. What's Obama supposed to do, beam them in from a Starship? There's one runway to handle all of the planes that are trying to land with supplies and everything else. Creating a giant cluster#### is the last thing that will help anybody.

The USS Carl Vinson arrived today. Other U.S. ships and Coast Guard cutters are also on the way.

[anthonyvop]

What politial correctness? A handful of troops are there now. But I just read that 10,000 U.S troops, including 2,200 Marines, will be in Haiti by Monday. What's Obama supposed to do, beam them in from a Starship? There's one runway to handle all of the planes that are trying to land with supplies and everything else. Creating a giant cluster#### is the last thing that will help anybody.

The USS Carl Vinson arrived today. Other U.S. ships and Coast Guard cutters are also on the way.

Obama announced that the US will not be handling security that will be controlled by the UN.

With roads impassable what is need is a battalion of Strykers and combat engineering equipment. Of course that won't happen.

[Mark in Oshawa]

What anyone has to understand is this is a failed nation right at the bottom of the list of all nations, and that was before the Quake.

Tony, you can verify this for me. I have been told that us people in the US have no concept. We can imagine the worst nation possible, the most grinding poverty, with one in 50 holding jobs, and then you can go there.........and it is WORSE. Now add in a capital of buildings all knocked flat (the Duvaliers were not big on building codes and the like) and dead everywhere.

This is a huge mess, and putting troops in there might be the only way to get aid through without some gang of thugs stealing it BUT I think it may happen. The problem is the US is the only nation who has the manpower down there to do that, and we know how likely Obama will use this force...not very well.

[anthonyvop]

What anyone has to understand is this is a failed nation right at the bottom of the list of all nations, and that was before the Quake.

Tony, you can verify this for me. I have been told that us people in the US have no concept. We can imagine the worst nation possible, the most grinding poverty, with one in 50 holding jobs, and then you can go there.........and it is WORSE. Now add in a capital of buildings all knocked flat (the Duvaliers were not big on building codes and the like) and dead everywhere.

This is a huge mess, and putting troops in there might be the only way to get aid through without some gang of thugs stealing it BUT I think it may happen. The problem is the US is the only nation who has the manpower down there to do that, and we know how likely Obama will use this force...not very well.

You have no idea unless you go there.
For most of the people who post here poverty is having basic cable only.
For many people in Haiti their one meal a day could be coming as scraps from the dump.

I don't want to get into an in depth discussion of the causes of the Haitian problem before the quake. There is a bigger problem now.

And as i said. It is getting uglier. Really ugly!

[Easy Drifter]

I have no idea what the US is doing or planning on with respect to trying to maintain order but I imagine that at least some of the troops being sent are combat troops and will be utilized to maintain order.
The members of the Cdn. Forces dispatched so far are for rescue and relief work.
However it was reported on the news tonight that we are considering sending 800 combat troops to help maintain order.
I expect our defence staff are resisting as our combat units are all stretched to the breaking point with Afghanistan. We have very few troops who have not served more than one tour of duty in Afghanistan and every unit currently in Canada has been in Afghanistan. They are worn out.
Our last 4 casulties, from an IED, were all Reservists on leave from their full time jobs, who volunteered to go.

[gloomyDAY]

I live in California, so what would happen if an earthquake of that magnitude hit here? It isn't a question of if, but when. I decided that I'm going to get an earthquake readiness kit and store it underneath my bed. I also need to go out and buy more ammunition. The chaos from Katrina and the images from the meltdown in New Orleans is still singed in my head.

[Mark in Oshawa]

You have no idea unless you go there.
For most of the people who post here poverty is having basic cable only.
For many people in Haiti their one meal a day could be coming as scraps from the dump.

I don't want to get into an in depth discussion of the causes of the Haitian problem before the quake. There is a bigger problem now.

And as i said. It is getting uglier. Really ugly!

Tony, I hear you. I have no concept. An aid expert was on Toronto radio yesterday and he said think of the worst hell you can imagine, fly to Port Au Prince, and discover your imagination couldn't think of anything that chaotic. THAT was before every building in the capital was pretty much knocked flat.

I read they are thinking 100000 dead just from the quake, and maybe that much again through disease and the rioting and fighting if the US and others don't go in there and establish order.

Sad...really sad. No nation deserves the number of natural disasters this one seems to have suffered, and the number of bad leaders it has bred. My family has donated to the Red Cross, and apparently the Cdn Gov't is matching all civilian donations dollar for dollar, just as they did after the Tsunami fund. It is all so little, but it has to start somewheres. I just hope when the aid money hits the ground, it goes to the right people and the right places. I would hate to think some gangs were making off with food or medicine to sell on a black market.

[anthonyvop]

I live in California, so what would happen if an earthquake of that magnitude hit here? It isn't a question of if, but when. I decided that I'm going to get an earthquake readiness kit and store it underneath my bed. I also need to go out and buy more ammunition. The chaos from Katrina and the images from the meltdown in New Orleans is still singed in my head.

Earthquakes of that magnitude and much larger have hit California in the past 20 years and the people behaved the right way.

Katrina was blown way out of proportion and many lies where propagandized by the press.
Nobody was murdered in the Super Dome. Nobody was raped.
Any lack of civility can be directly attributed to Mayor Nagin. It was his fault for the size of the disaster. It was his police force that ran either ran away or joined into the looting.

[Hondo]

Earthquakes of that magnitude and much larger have hit California in the past 20 years and the people behaved the right way.

Katrina was blown way out of proportion and many lies where propagandized by the press.
Nobody was murdered in the Super Dome. Nobody was raped.
Any lack of civility can be directly attributed to Mayor Nagin. It was his fault for the size of the disaster. It was his police force that ran either ran away or joined into the looting.

Not to mention Governor Blanco and other state authorities keeping FEMA from coming in and then not being able to direct them to places to set up once they did get in. Another difference, the people in New Orleans were told in no uncertain terms to get out, and didn't. The mayor had every bus in the city, including school busses, available for use and didn't use any of them. And in a shining example of individual initiative verses government socialism, bless the 15 year old kid that stole a bus, loaded it with refugees, and drove them to Houston while the government was still stumbling around. Salute!

[Hondo]

I live in California, so what would happen if an earthquake of that magnitude hit here? It isn't a question of if, but when. I decided that I'm going to get an earthquake readiness kit and store it underneath my bed. I also need to go out and buy more ammunition. The chaos from Katrina and the images from the meltdown in New Orleans is still singed in my head.

Unless you live in a mobile home, I'd suggest you keep your readiness kit in the car, truck or outside shed if possible. Debris from a collapsed house is pretty heavy and you may not be able to get to your kit if it is inside. A reasonable quanity of ammunition is handy but allies are handier. In a civil breakdown, your safety will be in numbers. Talk to friends and neighbors about formulating a group plan should something happen and stick together. Nobody is going to be interested in attacking a determined group of 6-8 adults when there are easier targets to be had. Be prepared to be absolutely on your own for a week.

Living in hurricane prone areas, I've kept a simple bail-out kit in an ALICE pack along with a 4 gallon poly container of water since 1974. Over the years I have of course rotated the food and other contents as technology changes. In all those years I only used it once, for 2 days, and it was a great thing to have. It has been put in a vehicle many times in case the need to haul ass comes quickly, like in flash flood areas. Everyone should have one. Believe me, when the situation looks bleak and you reach in your pack and grab that roll of quilted, 2 ply toliet paper all clean and dry in it's zip loc bag, all of a sudden things don't seem so bad.

[Tomi]

A few days gone already and not any pathetic rescue story yet, well maybe have to wait for awhile. :)

[Eki]

4 gallon poly container of water since 1974.
I hope you have changed the water after 1974, or at least have water purification tablets and maybe a filter too.

[Hondo]

Water gets changed monthly and I have 2 purifiers along with extra filters. Bear in mind it's purpose is to last a week in the aftermath of a natural disaster. It's not a long term survival plan. I don't have one of them.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well, contrary to what the internet experts here claimed, the U.S. is now being criticized for the U.S. military's takeover of emergency operations in Haiti.


The US military's takeover of emergency operations in Haiti has triggered a diplomatic row with countries and aid agencies furious at having flights redirected.

Brazil and France lodged an official protest with Washington after US military aircraft were given priority at Port-au-Prince's congested airport, forcing many non-US flights to divert to the Dominican Republic.

Brasilia warned it would not relinquish command of United Nations forces in Haiti and Paris complained the airport had become a US "annexe", exposing a brewing power struggle amid the global relief effort. The Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières also complained about diverted flights.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/us-accused-aid-effort-haiti

[anthonyvop]

Well, contrary to what the internet experts here claimed, the U.S. is now being criticized for the U.S. military's takeover of emergency operations in Haiti.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/us-accused-aid-effort-haiti
Who said the US wouldn't be criticized? Jeez, we even have some idiots blaming the US and Global Warming for the Earthquake....(Danny Glover)
I guess those countries are ticked off that they aren't getting enough TV/PR time.

If they really cared they would be grateful that somebody is in charge instead of letting it go haphazardly.

Who is in better position to take charge? The Brazilians? The Chinese? The U.N.?

[Jag_Warrior]

Who said the US wouldn't be criticized? Jeez, we even have some idiots blaming the US and Global Warming for the Earthquake....(Danny Glover)
I guess those countries are ticked off that they aren't getting enough TV/PR time.

If they really cared they would be grateful that somebody is in charge instead of letting it go haphazardly.

Who is in better position to take charge? The Brazilians? The Chinese? The U.N.?

Not the criticism. Some guy named Anthony claimed that Obama would be PC and wouldn't allow our military to do what needed to be done... yada, yada, yada.

Personally, I'm happy with what we're doing and trying to get done. What I get tired of are the armchair quarterbacks (on both sides) who want to yap about what's going to happen before it happens, or whine just to hear themselves whine. I'll buy a giant mug of STFU for Danny Glover, Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh... and anybody else who needs a sip. :beer:

[Easy Drifter]

Somebody has to run the remains of the airport and Haiti sure can't with the loss of so many people.
The US probably has the most qualified people and equipment on the ground.
There is only so much room and space for supplies at the airfield. There is also the requirement to get more Avgas and Jet fuel there. Even without the disaster a relatively small airport like Haiti's couldn't supply the volume of fuel required for the amt. of air traffic. US planes can carry enough fuel to get there and back.
Canada is co-ordinating our flights with the US so they have an arrival time set out. Our CF17's also carry enough fuel for a round trip.
The logistics of setting things up with the devastation has got to be incredible. Roads are blocked or barely passible.

[Hondo]

In addition to being criticized, we will probably end up with the care and feeding of this sovereign, independent nation in perpetuality. Is the Golden Crescent on scene yet? In the entire independent history of this nation the only thing they have managed to produce is corruption, poverty, and begging. The other half of the Isle has done well for itself. Makes you wonder. They are lucky I'm not the President.

[anthonyvop]

Not the criticism. Some guy named Anthony claimed that Obama would be PC and wouldn't allow our military to do what needed to be done... yada, yada, yada.


Has he?
All they have done is take over the airport. Where is the security? People are being shot and lynched. Roads are still blocked.

Two aid workers from the Dominican Republic were shot handing out supplies.

Right now Haiti has no functioning government. They have a president and some other bureaucrats but the police are gone, Infrastructure support is gone.

People are dying and these a-holes are playing politics.

[anthonyvop]

It saddens me to report that one of the Dominicans who was shot while trying to help the Haitian people has passed away.

[Jag_Warrior]

Has he?
All they have done is take over the airport. Where is the security? People are being shot and lynched. Roads are still blocked.

Two aid workers from the Dominican Republic were shot handing out supplies.

Right now Haiti has no functioning government. They have a president and some other bureaucrats but the police are gone, Infrastructure support is gone.

People are dying and these a-holes are playing politics.

Obama will be pulling out the magic wand that makes everything all better in 24 hours. Bush had one of those, didn't he? Wonder where he left it in the White House? I bet Barney buried it in the backyard.

[gloomyDAY]

I hope the violence is quelled. People get desperate and commit regrettable acts.


Obama will be pulling out the magic wand that makes everything all better in 24 hours. Bush had one of those, didn't he? Wonder where he left it in the White House? I bet Barney buried it in the backyard. :laugh:

I was mid-bite in an Oreo. Thanks for the crumbs spread on my monitor.

[Easy Drifter]

Thousands of US Marines and US troops will be arriving shortly to 'help' policing.
Canada is sending 1700 more soldiers in addition to the several hundred already sent. The majority of those already deployed are not combat troops.
This next group are mostly from the famous Van Doos Regiment. These are experienced Afghanistan veterans recently back from combat duties in Afghanistan. They are supposed to be on R & R.
They are not sweethearts at the best of times and they will not be in a very good mood. Everybody, and I mean everybody, had better tread very carefully around them.
They are also a largely French Canadian Regiment so the fact pretty well all can speak French should help.

[anthonyvop]

Obama will be pulling out the magic wand that makes everything all better in 24 hours. Bush had one of those, didn't he? Wonder where he left it in the White House? I bet Barney buried it in the backyard.

Funny how there was no serious criticism of the Tsunami relief provided by the US.
Sorry to jog your selective memory.

[Jag_Warrior]

Funny how there was no serious criticism of the Tsunami relief provided by the US.
Sorry to jog your selective memory.

I was working 20 hour days when that happened. We got the news, made a large group donation and went back to work. So I couldn't tell you much about what the media or anybody else had to say then. I'm sure you'd have chimed in with some sort of Dittohead criticism if it had happened this year though.

[anthonyvop]

I was working 20 hour days when that happened. We got the news, made a large group donation and went back to work. So I couldn't tell you much about what the media or anybody else had to say then. I'm sure you'd have chimed in with some sort of Dittohead criticism if it had happened this year though.

WOW! You collected some money! How great that must make you feel.

Makes my Hours spent loading pallets of relief supplies and trying to contact friends in Haiti pale in comparison.

Have you ever been to Haiti? Do you know people in Haiti? Can you even find it on that map?

Right now many groups are talking about pulling out or at least falling back until the security issue is addressed.

The attack on the Dominican aid workers is not going over well in the Dominican Republic and already many media outlets down there are calling for the D.R. to cut their assistance.

As i said it is going to get ugly.

Call me a diitohead, Call me a neo-con, call me whatever old, tired liberal cliche you want ...I don't care. I guarantee you that I know what is going on in Haiti right now more than you do.


DEAL WITH IT!!!

[Eki]

Thousands of US Marines and US troops will be arriving shortly to 'help' policing.
Canada is sending 1700 more soldiers in addition to the several hundred already sent. The majority of those already deployed are not combat troops.
This next group are mostly from the famous Van Doos Regiment. These are experienced Afghanistan veterans recently back from combat duties in Afghanistan. They are supposed to be on R & R.
They are not sweethearts at the best of times and they will not be in a very good mood. Everybody, and I mean everybody, had better tread very carefully around them.
They are also a largely French Canadian Regiment so the fact pretty well all can speak French should help.
It's good there will be also other troops than American. They said yesterday on the news that the US took over the airport and their priority has been to evacuate Americans from Haiti and not helping the locals.

[Hondo]

It's good there will be also other troops than American. They said yesterday on the news that the US took over the airport and their priority has been to evacuate Americans from Haiti and not helping the locals.

I'd be more than happy to see the US leave the entire country completely.

[Garry Walker]

Maybe I won't make that donation afterall.. :(

I will 100% not be making a donation.

[ShiftingGears]

It's a great shame theres rioting and violence in the face of aid being given to the country.

Won't do anything besides make them hungrier.

[Hondo]

Saving them from what in order to restore them to what? The earthquake has highlighted and sped the processes of what they have been doing to themseves anyway.

[Jag_Warrior]

WOW! You collected some money! How great that must make you feel.

Yes, it did make us feel good. Why wouldn't it? But that's not why we gave the money. Given what we were tasked with doing for our company, and being away from home for months on end, we did all that we could do - which in this case meant donating money, which our corporation matched. Several hundred thosand dollars ain't exactly chump change. Hopefully it helped.



Makes my Hours spent loading pallets of relief supplies and trying to contact friends in Haiti pale in comparison.

Only someone such as yourself would try to grandstand and puff himself up by using a tragedy as a backdrop. If you loaded supplies, then good for you. What do you want, a medal pinned to your chest?



Have you ever been to Haiti? Do you know people in Haiti? Can you even find it on that map?

Never been to Haiti. Never wanted to go - or I'd have been there by now. I've met several people from Haiti, but I can't say that I got to know them that well. Yep, I'd have no problems finding it, or most any other country, on a map. And what this has to do with the price of tea in China, I have no earthly idea. Just more Vopisms,
I suppose. :rolleyes:




Right now many groups are talking about pulling out or at least falling back until the security issue is addressed.

The attack on the Dominican aid workers is not going over well in the Dominican Republic and already many media outlets down there are calling for the D.R. to cut their assistance.

As i said it is going to get ugly.

Call me a diitohead, Call me a neo-con, call me whatever old, tired liberal cliche you want ...I don't care. I guarantee you that I know what is going on in Haiti right now more than you do.


DEAL WITH IT!!!

Deal with this, dipstick. If you told me the sun was shining, I'd still check the weather report before leaving the house without my umbrella. Even for topics where you should know what you're talking about, you're not exactly seen as a reliable source of information around these parts, pal.

And you very well may know more about Haiti than I do. Again, you get a gold star on your beanie for the day. But if you think that makes you some sort of expert on coordinating logistics, you're sillier than you seem - which is pretty damn silly. I wouldn't match myself against the people on the ground in Haiti, or other professionals around the world, who are doing the best they can under incredibly challenging conditions, I'm sure. But I've probably forgotten more about supply chain management than you'll ever know, if you lived to be 150 years old. You loaded a bag of rice on a pallet and figured out how to make an international phone call. Hell fire, they should make you a general and put you on the next plane down!

Armchair quarterbacks... gotta love 'em!

[GridGirl]

I have to say that I'm proud of my football team today. Baggies do not carry a permanent shirt sponsor but have special permission from the football association to have individual one off shirt sponsors for televised matches. For tonights televised match the players are wearing Haiti DEC appeal shirts and turning down a bumper payday for the club in terms of revenue. Hopefully it will go a little bit towards raising more money.

[Hondo]

I'm proud of ya Jag! You went and got properly vicious for a change! Don't that just beat the bejesus out of trying to be polite all the time?

Come to the dark side...lol

[donKey jote]

hehe nice one Fiero :laugh:

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm proud of ya Jag! You went and got properly vicious for a change! Don't that just beat the bejesus out of trying to be polite all the time?

Come to the dark side...lol

At one time I had a rather bad reputation on various boards (7_th Gear in particular) for ripping people, Fiero. I'd prefer to have reasonable discussions with (reasonable) people these days, and not be known as someone who just cuts people. But if someone begs for a slap in the mouth, I'll slap them in the mouth. That's kind of how I was raised. Message boards and real life have more in common than some realize.

In Anthony's case, I've "known" him (online) for quite awhile. And I don't dislike him - he has his lucid moments and we've actually had more than a few civil discussions. But when his arguments begin to run out of steam, he has this tendency to get too big for his britches. So you have to pin his ears back to return him to reality. He'll get over it... or he won't. Either way... :s mokin:

[anthonyvop]

Jag,

You have belittled me during this tread. Calling me an "armchair quaterback" and yet you have failed to even attempt to refute anything I have posted.

Your info on the situation is, by your own admission, limited at best while my info is either 1st hand or straight from people at ground zero.

I still have one friend who is unaccounted for down there and nobody has been able to contact him. As time passes our thoughts are turning to the worse. His last whereabouts was in his 2nd floor office which is now a pile of rubble. As much as I wish that everyone would drop everything and dig for him I realize that the time now is for those who survived.

The politics being played out is making me sick with rage.
Now word is an American aid worker was murdered and 3 more injured.
In the Dominican Republic more and more people are calling for the bordered to be closed.

As I said from the begging....It is going to get ugly. It doesn't please me to state it but the sooner the US Government realizes it and acts accordingly the more people will be helped.

[Daniel]

Come on stop the petty arguments. More important things than that now.

[Jag_Warrior]

Come on stop the petty arguments. More important things than that now.

You are absolutely right, Daniel. This certainly isn't the time for squabbling. Sorry about that, everyone.

[Saint Devote]

There are 200 Israeli Defence Force specialists in rescue also in Haiti and Israel has now sent four large Hercules transport planes filled with medical equipment and medicine.

The Saudi Arabians and the rest of the Arab world have sent their condolences - they are all heart - well almost, other than that they have gazillions of dollars to be spent on f1 tracks........

[Hondo]

Possibly the Saudis are just more pragmatic and realistic in this case than the rest of us. Sooner or later the Golden Crescent will show up.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It's good there will be also other troops than American. They said yesterday on the news that the US took over the airport and their priority has been to evacuate Americans from Haiti and not helping the locals.

That likely is NOT true, so I would love to see the "proof" Eki. I saw the report on CBS's 60 Minutes the other night and the only complaint I had is the CBS crew seemed to ignore the other countries contributions in their commentary yet you could see the UN blue Helmets on Brazilians and the Israeli search and rescue team. I don't think it was a conscious thing by CBS, it just is the nature of media to be a little stuck with blinders on.

[anthonyvop]

Come on stop the petty arguments. More important things than that now.

You are right.

The issue is the rapidly deteriorating situation in Haiti and the best way to rectify it.

[Jag_Warrior]

You are right.

The issue is the rapidly deteriorating situation in Haiti and the best way to rectify it.

I agree with this.

[gloomyDAY]

A year has gone by and Haiti is still on its ass. I've been reading articles about how the world has turned its back on Haiti, but I think that's short-sighted. The NGOs/foreign governments just give handouts and never try to work with the Haitian government to improve living conditions in Haiti. It's as if the they undermine the Haitian government at every corner.

My solution? Pull the plug! Instead of making Haitians dependent on NGOs force them to establish a stable government. Make Haitians responsible for their own actions.

[GridGirl]

Your comments are all well and good Gloomy day but I don't really see how you can make Haitian's responsible for actions when so many of them are still living in absolute poverty. When watching news reports this week there appears to be next to no clear up operation having taken place.

[gloomyDAY]

Your comments are all well and good Gloomy day but I don't really see how you can make Haitian's responsible for actions when so many of them are still living in absolute poverty. When watching news reports this week there appears to be next to no clear up operation having taken place.I think that NGOs meddle too much is Haiti's domestic affairs. They should be more interactive with the government in order to produce better results for the populace. Same with foreign governments.

I would start by curtailing crime in Haiti. For example, at one point in time there was actual progress in making Port Au Prince safer. Then, the earthquake hit and 4,000 prisoners escaped! Foreign governments can work with the police to fight crime and NGOs can help people build better shelters instead of handing out food at the tent cities. Hell, the tent cities have been nothing but a haven for the gangsters running amok in the entire country.

There is too much disconnect in the "leadership" and there haven't been any results.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Your comments are all well and good Gloomy day but I don't really see how you can make Haitian's responsible for actions when so many of them are still living in absolute poverty. When watching news reports this week there appears to be next to no clear up operation having taken place.

From what I was reading in the paper today, most of the reason Haiti is the mess it is isn't the West not caring, or not sending money. It is a respect for their government, which is unwarranted. There is no system for a civil registry of property, or property rights laws as we know them. So giving anyone money to fix up a building or insurance is out the window, because no one is ever sure who owns what. The government is so dependent on corruption that much of what makes society work isn't done without bribes.

Perfect example. There is a field full of brand new pickup trucks that could be on the road delivering aid and being used by NGO's, but the Haitian government insists cannot leave to do this work until the NGO's pay registration and duties to import them. Excuse me? To help you, we must pay you basically a bribe??

Haiti is a mess because the government there is corrupt, doesn't understand it is in the way, and the rest of the world is too busy respecting their sovereignty when it is clear they are a kleptocratic corrupt mess....and the people there have no means of changing that...