F1 to become Wacky Races!

[philipbain]

Bernie has been saying some things about the sporting regs of F1:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80852

Firstly, I agree with the points system, a bigger gap is required between the top 3 positions, emphasise the added importance of finishing 1st and not 2nd, 2nd and not 3rd.

Other proposals will make F1 into Wacky Races, including shortcuts (check the article - I am not making this up) that can be used 5 times during a race.

He also goes on to lament the fact that modern brakes are very good and modern cars are very reliable.

[stephenw_us]

He is only wrong about the shortcuts (too much single malt?) - everything else he says is spot on.

[garyshell]

What the hell is Bernie smoking these days???


"Ecclestone also revealed that he had more radical proposals to improve the show - starting with a controversial plan to introduce 'shortcuts' at grand prix tracks that each driver could use for a limited number of times per race.

"I think it would be very easy for us on each circuit to have an area where you could gain a bit of time so you could overtake - a shortcut if you like - which a driver could use five times during the race, so it would stop people getting stuck behind somebody," he suggested.

"It's good for TV, good for the TV commentators, they could talk about somebody having three [shortcuts] left and somebody else having two and what's going to happen and so on."

Gary

[Sonic]

The "shortcut" thing is not new. I seem to recall a similar proposal perhaps 10+ years ago whereby an "overtaking lane" would be created at some corners to allow passing. The idea got a short shrift back then and will again now. As ever with Bernie he's throwing a stupid idea out there to get what he really wants. Namely the bigger points gap.

as for the reliability - its their own blo0dy fault. F1 cars used to fail because they were pushed to breaking point. Now with 18000rpm limits they could run for a month!

[Rollo]

"The other thing that's bad, in the seventies whoever was in the top six places at half distance, you could guarantee that by the end of the race only three of them would be there - and now all six are there. You don't get people stopping anymore."
- Bernie Ecclestone.

Reliability is bad?

WHAT?!

Perhaps Mr Ecclestone would like to introduce a system where the pundits could vote people off the track, or perhaps a secret button which detonates the engines randomly.

Bernice Ecclestone needs to be sent off to the Shady Pines Home for the Eternally Bewildered.

[AndyRAC]

Is it not April 1st..???

Short cuts....??? Whatever next, blimey......oils slicks out the back of the cars....

Agree about the points though.

[Valve Bounce]

He is only wrong about the shortcuts (too much single malt?) - everything else he says is spot on.

Well, I got as far as the first sentence and my opinion, for what its worth is incorrect. You can change the points system all you like, but apart from anyone attempting suicidal attacks, you won't increase overtaking.

Overtaking can only be increased by decreasing all that aero shyte on the car; and I've gone through this that many times that I've probably bored everyone to death on this. Basically, decrease the angles of both wings to nearly horizontal and eliminate all those winglets and end plates. Bernie loves something that is uniform, so why not have uniform wings - all wings being identical except for the paint jobs.

[Valve Bounce]

"The other thing that's bad, in the seventies whoever was in the top six places at half distance, you could guarantee that by the end of the race only three of them would be there - and now all six are there. You don't get people stopping anymore."
- Bernie Ecclestone.

Reliability is bad?

WHAT?!

Perhaps Mr Ecclestone would like to introduce a system where the pundits could vote people off the track, or perhaps a secret button which detonates the engines randomly.

Bernice Ecclestone needs to be sent off to the Shady Pines Home for the Eternally Bewildered.

Say what you want - Bernie will cry all the way to the bank. :D

[Easy Drifter]

Bernie hits another home run.
He just accomplished what he planned.
PR.
He has everyone talking about some off the wall statement he made.
He knows darned well it will never happen but he just sucked every one in yet again.

[Valve Bounce]

Bernie hits another home run.
He just accomplished what he planned.
PR.
He has everyone talking about some off the wall statement he made.
He knows darned well it will never happen but he just sucked every one in yet again.

Exactly my sentiments. Bernie is nobody's fool. On top of that, he is very rich!!

[Jag_Warrior]

Exactly my sentiments. Bernie is nobody's fool. On top of that, he is very rich!!

Yeah, but so was Pablo Escobar. :D

[K-Pu]

A friend of mine always says there should be something like blocks which rise from the surface of the track at random.

I wonder if he took the idea from Bernie... :D

He also says barries should be closer to the track because an off-track excursion at some circuits can be even faster than going through the right path.

I think he took that idea from Kubica :D

[garyshell]

Is it not April 1st..???

Short cuts....??? Whatever next, blimey......oils slicks out the back of the cars....

Agree about the points though.


Knock off wheel nuts on the ends of expandable axels controlled by a button on the steering wheel. Yessssssssss.

Gary

[Ari]

Just getting people to talk about F1 before the season starts.

Normal stuff really.

[F1boat]

Bernie - go home!

[Langdale Forest]

If only thay made the points system in WRC so that Loeb did not get maximum points even if he won.

[Mark]

He's spot on about the brakes mind! Overtaking for the most part is being able to brake later than the next guy, but the brakes on F1 cars are so good, and combined with the downforce and grip from the tyres, means there is very little difference between the best and worst drivers under braking.

The best thing to encourage overtaking is to vastly increase the braking distances of the cars, so the driver who can use his brakes just 1% better will have enough of an advantage to get by.

The question is, of course, if you make the brakes worse, will this be to the detriment of safety?

[SGWilko]

Well, I got as far as the first sentence and my opinion, for what its worth is incorrect. You can change the points system all you like, but apart from anyone attempting suicidal attacks, you won't increase overtaking.

Overtaking can only be increased by decreasing all that aero shyte on the car; and I've gone through this that many times that I've probably bored everyone to death on this. Basically, decrease the angles of both wings to nearly horizontal and eliminate all those winglets and end plates. Bernie loves something that is uniform, so why not have uniform wings - all wings being identical except for the paint jobs.

What we need is a consultant who knows about complicated aerodynamics and can make the wind go swish...

Anyone fit that bill?

[SGWilko]

damn good whipping.

Max as judge, jury, executioner, promoter, tea boy.........

[F1boat]

Flavio said that Max likes to punish people, both as a FIA boss and in his private life :)

[wedge]

He's spot on about the brakes mind! Overtaking for the most part is being able to brake later than the next guy, but the brakes on F1 cars are so good, and combined with the downforce and grip from the tyres, means there is very little difference between the best and worst drivers under braking.

The best thing to encourage overtaking is to vastly increase the braking distances of the cars, so the driver who can use his brakes just 1% better will have enough of an advantage to get by.

The question is, of course, if you make the brakes worse, will this be to the detriment of safety?

You've got control tyres and Tilkedromes ie. 1km straight followed by hairpin and we still got crap races like Abu Dabi

The point is, its all very well increasing braking distances if you can't follow the car infront.

[greenchile505]

Sometime today, Yarno Trulli yapped:


I think Bernie sometimes has very clear ideas but this (proposal) is just not possible in Formula One.


(NASCAR) have been very clever and very good in making sure that they keep the rules very consistent over the years and not changing them too much, otherwise people at home will get confused

Yarno attempts to speak to Eccellstone's insanity but instead criticizes us. We "people at home" are truly smarter than you think, Trulli. We're not that confused.

And since Yanko has only recently became a person at home whilst viewing NASCAR races, he obviously missed the NEW rules that turned everyone, including team owners, drivers, and people at home, on their heads. The consistent and not changing too much rules called "Race for the Cup".

[SGWilko]

Sometime today, Yarno Trulli yapped:





Yarno attempts to speak to Eccellstone's insanity but instead criticizes us. We "people at home" are truly smarter than you think, Trulli. We're not that confused.

And since Yanko has only recently became a person at home whilst viewing NASCAR races, he obviously missed the NEW rules that turned everyone, including team owners, drivers, and people at home, on their heads. The consistent and not changing too much rules called "Race for the Cup".

And did Jarno Trulli, brother of Yarno, have any soundbites???? :)

[UltimateDanGTR]

shortcuts? well, at least it would make valencia a vaguely interesting place i spose!

seriously though, what is this idea IMO?

Crazy
Stupid
Wierd
Whacky


i swear bernie has this vision of F1 becoming Formula Bernie Eurasia series

[52Paddy]

Post #27. Good job Bernard! You might get us to page 3 before long... :p :

[greenchile505]

I hate it when I typo during a rant.

[Robinho]

Bernie, i have s**t better ideas than that.

it looks silly in a 5 lap, 4 car rallycross event, let alone an F1 race. Stoopid

[harvick#1]

what will Bernie come up next lol

[ioan]

what will Bernie come up next lol

Next they'll have a helicopter randomly (ahem) pick up cars and move them ahead or behind their competitors. :D
Also some deadly traps randomly ;) triggered by Bernie might be implemented in the near future. :p

[Garry Walker]

What is it about overtaking that makes people go so crazy.
in F1 most of the time you have the faster car in front of the slower car, so there can never be so much overtaking.
You want overtaking, start having lottery grids. I bet some idiots would actually be happy about that.

[harvick#1]

What is it about overtaking that makes people go so crazy.
in F1 most of the time you have the faster car in front of the slower car, so there can never be so much overtaking.
You want overtaking, start having lottery grids. I bet some idiots would actually be happy about that.

shhhh, Bernie might do this lol

draw a number out of a hat and see what happens :D

no more qualifiying procedures, just pick a number out of a hat. what drama :laugh:

[philipbain]

no more qualifiying procedures, just pick a number out of a hat. what drama :laugh:

They could make it into a glitzy and glamourous prime time game show involving the drivers, members of the public can win fabulous prizes (donated by team sponsors of course, a nice bit of crafty product placement!) followed by the grid lottery, basically a lot similar to what the BBC do on a Saturday night for the National Lottery, they could even get Dale Winton to present it!

[harvick#1]

Bernie's next idea is to install sprinkler systems at every track. so at random times, he can wet the track and force everyone to pit for wet tires :D

[edv]

I wanna see those knives that come out of the wheels like on the Ben Hur chariot!

[Sonic]

What is it about overtaking that makes people go so crazy.
in F1 most of the time you have the faster car in front of the slower car, so there can never be so much overtaking.
You want overtaking, start having lottery grids. I bet some idiots would actually be happy about that.

Once upon a time grids were picked by lottery.

I can think of plenty of worse ways to decide the grid.

[52Paddy]

Once upon a time grids were picked by lottery.

I think you're right actually. One of the gand prix of the 1920s/30s (I actually think it was the first Monaco GP, 1929?) had its grid decided by a ballot. That's not saying I would like to see that format return, however.

I have a suggestion. Pole position could go to the driver who gains the most body weight in the gap between two race meetings. Montoya might actually come back! :p
.

[call_me_andrew]

He's spot on about the brakes mind! Overtaking for the most part is being able to brake later than the next guy, but the brakes on F1 cars are so good, and combined with the downforce and grip from the tyres, means there is very little difference between the best and worst drivers under braking.

The best thing to encourage overtaking is to vastly increase the braking distances of the cars, so the driver who can use his brakes just 1% better will have enough of an advantage to get by.

The question is, of course, if you make the brakes worse, will this be to the detriment of safety?

You don't have to make the brakes worse to increase braking distance. You just have to make the cars heavier.

[Mark]

Personally I think it goes against the ethos of F1. That is your finishing position is everything everything else is just a lead up to that.

The race winner should always come away with the maximum points it's possible to get on a given weekend. He shouldn't get less just because of not being on pole or not doing the fastest lap.

Could you imagine an season ending race where the championship is won by the driver putting on new tyres just to get a fastest lap? Farce.

[Shifter]

Don't forget about the blue turtle shells that knock the leader off the course, and bananna peels that drivers can drop strategically.

[gloomyDAY]

Getting crazier by the day....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81069

Why? Seems so stupid.

[SGWilko]

Can't they just have a 'square wheel' rule?

[jens]

Regarding all those rule change proposals and else there is one big question that keeps making circles in my mind, to which I can't find a proper answer: WHY the hell did they need to ban refuelling if they suddenly - and quite rightfully - fear that racing will become more boring as a result, forcing the need to bring in artificial methods to spice up the show?? I quite frankly never understood, why refuelling needed to get banned. It looks like FIA/FOTA doesn't understand any more either. "Oh let's try this rule change, maybe it will spice up the show... Oh wait, it won't - damn it's too late to reverse that rule now, let's change something else."

[Mark in Oshawa]

F1 is boring I guess. Gee..no one is watching....oh...they are? It isn't? Wow someone ought to shut up Bernie, because his ideas sound like stupid statements from a desparate man...

[Langdale Forest]

+1

[edv]

Here I was really looking forward to very exciting 'balls-to-the-wall' final qualifying, where truly the fastest man/machine with the softest tires and a splash of fuel would rule the day.

Instead, we now get the splash of fuel, but tires to be used to start the race.
Nobody is going to seriously use the soft option on full tanks to start a race, will they?

[call_me_andrew]

Instead, we now get the splash of fuel, but tires to be used to start the race.
Nobody is going to seriously use the soft option on full tanks to start a race, will they?

Well if you have to stop for tires, starting on the soft tires might be better because you can get ahead of the field early in the race. Of course a safety car would negate such an advantage.

[52Paddy]

So they're sacrificing the spectacle of qualifying to try and improve the racing (not guaranteed). Why don't we all just watch the race and not bother with quali then. If the fastest driver on the day of qualifying ends up on the 3rd or 4th row because of his tyre strategy then I'm not really that interested :mark:

[wedge]

Could you imagine an season ending race where the championship is won by the driver putting on new tyres just to get a fastest lap? Farce.

Mike Hawthorn needed fastest lap plus second place and not to mention Moss's gentlemanly goodwill to finish as champion in 1958 Portugese GP.


So they're sacrificing the spectacle of qualifying to try and improve the racing (not guaranteed). Why don't we all just watch the race and not bother with quali then. If the fastest driver on the day of qualifying ends up on the 3rd or 4th row because of his tyre strategy then I'm not really that interested :mark:

That is the problem with today. It has become a show and Bernie has to sell TV packages. The only time quali is exciting is the last few minutes.

As Garry Walker has stated time and again, let the fastest cars qualify at the front and you will get boring races.

[SGWilko]

As Garry Walker has stated time and again, let the fastest cars qualify at the front and you will get boring races.

I don't disagree per se on this, BUT, without refuelling, the fastest car could quite easily be the most powerful, or is harder on its tyres, or both.

Most powerful could = least fuel efficient = more fuel required at the start....

Harder on tyres could = requires more changes = not optimul strategy.

It could all add up to overtaking opportunities.

[52Paddy]

As Garry Walker has stated time and again, let the fastest cars qualify at the front and you will get boring races.

While this is true, what wrecks my head is that these rules are constantly changing. The 12 lap maximum rules that were in place obviously create long boring waits during sessions and, unless affected by weather, generally the outcome was more or less predictable. But since the introduction of one-lap qualifying in 2003 (which worked wonders and was a great idea IMO), the format has been changed again, and numerous other details have been adjusted.

The situation is: if the races are boring, they'll change something in the rules. But, personally, I think they're doing this the wrong way. They're changing the wrong rules. Overtaking is physically difficult given the aerodynamic setup on today's cars (taken from the general consensus, I'm not technical whizz or anything). But, instead of rectifying the shape of the cars, exterior elements (i.e. qualifying, tyres, fuel-loads etc) are the focus of attention.

So, what we, in effect, have is: elements of the sport being compromised and failing to meet the criteria (hence why they're changed so regularly) whilst also avoiding the root of the problem - car design!

[52Paddy]

It could all add up to overtaking opportunities.

I still believe your suggestions are more likely overtaking opportunities during pit-stops as opposed to 'on track'.

[wedge]

So, what we, in effect, have is: elements of the sport being compromised and failing to meet the criteria (hence why they're changed so regularly) whilst also avoiding the root of the problem - car design!

If IRL leads by example then I can't quite see the wings taken off F1 cars.

Look at the example of the Overtaking Working Group. Aero is complex stuff. What may work in theory may not necessarily work in the real world and therefore continuous alterations isn't necessarily good for the sport because it requires money.


I don't disagree per se on this, BUT, without refuelling, the fastest car could quite easily be the most powerful, or is harder on its tyres, or both.

Most powerful could = least fuel efficient = more fuel required at the start....

Harder on tyres could = requires more changes = not optimul strategy.

It could all add up to overtaking opportunities.

Problem with refuelling it has turned GP race into a series of sprints and pit passing.

With free for all in quali and race the optimum race strategy was to fill the tank and try to do a one-stopper since you tend to lose more time making a stop, therefore less incentive to vary race strategy as opposed to race fuel qualy.

[edv]

Bear in mind that the quali is a separate TV show that FOM needs to entice viewers with.
The race on Sunday will garner massive viewership on its own.
Fiddling with the quali rules every couple of years has nothing to do with racing and EVERYTHING to do with entertainment revenue.

[Jag_Warrior]

I haven't read every post here, so someone has probably already said this. But why not just invert the top qualifiers, as they do in the GP2 sprint race and for good measure, throw a couple of "competition yellows", as they do in some NASCAR series?

Either you turn them loose and let them race (risking runaways and "boring" races) or you manage the competition and manufacture (somewhat artifical) results. I say, LET THEM RACE!!!

[52Paddy]

But why not just invert the top qualifiers, as they do in the GP2 sprint race

And have everybody try to qualify slowest? Now that would be some scene! :p :



and for good measure, throw a couple of "competition yellows", as they do in some NASCAR series?

I hope that F1 doesn't become influenced by that NASCAR mentality.

I am assuming neither of those points are meant to be taken seriously by the way.