Jenson Button Criticism

[JBAFCB]

Still over two months until the first race and it seems more and more people are wading into the criticism of Jenson's move to McLaren. Eddie Irvine says he'll get 'murdered' by Lewis

As an avid fan from the very start I'm the first to admit he has his work cut out, but my view is that Lewis will beat him but hey lets give the champion a chance shall we?

Whats everyone's thoughts?

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5841701,00.html

[Mia 01]

He will beat Hammy over the season.

With all that fuel he will destroy his tires at once.

Lewis needs the luck.

[CNR]

this could be a sad story for one of them

if jenson beats lewis then it proves that lewis is nothing special
if lewis beats jenson then it will prove that it was the 2009 car

maybe the redbull way is the way to go one driver 1 race the other driver the next race

[Mark]

From Jenson's point of view. Probably better to be Hamilton's team mate at McLaren. Than Schumacher's whipping boy at Mercedes ;)

[F1boat]

Things are always close between good drivers, remember Kimi\Massa, they proved to be a lot closer than expected.

[Mia 01]

Lewis is erratic and flamboyant, a good combination.

Jenson is fast, smooth and humble, a good combination.

[Dave B]

Any statement which includes the phrase "Eddie Irvine says" should be taken with a pinch of salt large enough to grit Britain's roads for a fortnight.

[I am evil Homer]

Indeed...Eddie's just bitter he couldn't take his chance for a WDC!

[motetarip]

Lewis is erratic and flamboyant, a good combination.

Jenson is fast, smooth and humble, a good combination.

:)

Thats what makes the next season unpredictable - if the car is well set up then I think Jenson will shine, if its a bit rough then it's likely Lewis will do better. Although I think Jenson's last two 2009 races taught him he can be a bit more feisty with the controls.

[keysersoze]

if jenson beats lewis then it proves that lewis is nothing special
if lewis beats jenson then it will prove that it was the 2009 car

maybe the redbull way is the way to go one driver 1 race the other driver the next race

Lewis's comparison to Alonso and Heikke is ample proof that the Brit is special.

Button's performance in the first half of the season compared to the second half (and his performance relative to Rubens) is ample proof that Jenson's success in '09 was down to the car.

[F1boat]

As I said before, it is very likely that the gap between Hamilton and Button will be similar to the one between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel. Lewis will be a bit faster, Jenson will be more consistent, Lewis will win likely in the end, but it won't be easy like against Heikki.
keyser, personally I would not rate the performance against Fred very high as for me the team was very, very biased in favor of Hamilton. And Heikki I would not rate above Rubens, who in the end of the WHOLE season was beaten quite convincingly by Jenson.

[ioan]

He will beat Hammy over the season.

With all that fuel he will destroy his tires at once.

Lewis needs the luck.

:rotflmao:

[ioan]

Lewis is fast(erratic) and flamboyant, a good combination.

Jenson is (fast), smooth and slow (humble), a losing (good) combination.

Fixed it for ya.

[Mia 01]

:rotflmao:

Hammy is up against the bunser, the latter will laugh in the end.

[Firstgear]

Lewis's comparison to Alonso and Heikke is ample proof that the Brit is special.

Button's performance in the first half of the season compared to the second half (and his performance relative to Rubens) is ample proof that Jenson's success in '09 was down to the car.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Also, Jenson has shown us over the years that he's good when everything suits him, but seems to be unable to adjust his driving style, or better a car over the season. This will be Lewis' year to show that he has matured, and can race smart (save the tyres when needed) as well as quick. If he can do that, he shouldn't have a problem bettering his new teammate by a fair margin.

[Mia 01]

Exactly what I was thinking.
Also, Jenson has shown us over the years that he's good when everything suits him, but seems to be unable to adjust his driving style, or better a car over the season. This will be Lewis' year to show that he has matured, and can race smart (save the tyres when needed) as well as quick. If he can do that, he shouldn't have a problem bettering his new teammate by a fair margin.

Lewis maturated, read his last outing.

[Valve Bounce]

He will beat Hammy over the season.

With all that fuel he will destroy his tires at once.

Lewis needs the luck.

I love this post! :D I can just imagine Bunsen sneaking up behind Lewis with a can of fuel and lighting up his tyres. :rotflmao:

[Valve Bounce]

Exactly what I was thinking.
Also, Jenson has shown us over the years that he's good when everything suits him, but seems to be unable to adjust his driving style, or better a car over the season. This will be Lewis' year to show that he has matured, and can race smart (save the tyres when needed) as well as quick. If he can do that, he shouldn't have a problem bettering his new teammate by a fair margin.

Actually, I hold the opposite view. In the beginning of the season, Bunsen's car was well suited by weather conditions and it was faster than the field, so his driving successes were easily come by.

But when they got to Europe, the colder track conditions played havoc with his tyres and points were very difficult to come by, yet Bunsen's driving showed his ability and determination to try to salvage some points at each race. Sure Rubens did better in teh second half, but Bunsen never stopped trying.

Now!! please forget I said all that.

[anthonyvop]

if lewis beats jenson then it will prove that it was the 2009 car


Don't we already know that?

At the Start of the season Hamilton was a mid pack driver. After some McLaren Development he was at the front.

So Hamilton became a worse driver at the start of the season then suddenly improved?

[ioan]

Sure Rubens did better in teh second half...

Obviously as he can drive a car that isn't perfect while jensy pansy is unable to do anything worth remembering unless the conditions are perfectly suited to him.

[Valve Bounce]

Obviously as he can drive a car that isn't perfect while jensy pansy is unable to do anything worth remembering unless the conditions are perfectly suited to him.

I can see you are looking for ward to a very enjoyable saintly discussion. :p :

[Saint Devote]

Still over two months until the first race and it seems more and more people are wading into the criticism of Jenson's move to McLaren. Eddie Irvine says he'll get 'murdered' by Lewis

As an avid fan from the very start I'm the first to admit he has his work cut out, but my view is that Lewis will beat him but hey lets give the champion a chance shall we?

Whats everyone's thoughts?

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5841701,00.html

To his critics Jenson should respond like Michael Delaney did at the end of Le Mans - a good natured "V" for victory sign :D

Says it all - which is why I like Kimi and why the sport is so very much poorer and pathetic for losing such a driver.

Eddie Irvine? He has always been a legend in his own mind :rolleyes:

[gloomyDAY]

Eddie Irvine? He has always been a legend in his own mind :rolleyes: :laugh:

I'm amazed at the amount of people defending Eddie Irvine just to attack Button. I'm not a fan of Button but these back-and-forth squabbles are getting quite obnoxious.

[Valve Bounce]

:laugh:

I'm amazed at the amount of people defending Eddie Irvine just to attack Button. I'm not a fan of Button but these back-and-forth squabbles are getting quite obnoxious.

I guess that's all that's happening in the off season. What else is there to squabble about without any resolution in sight? It almost makes me want to log on fictitiously so I can squabble from both sides of the fence. Trouble is, pino might ban both of me :(
As for Eddie, you can't really blame the guy; after all Senna whacked him in the back of his head for passing him.

[Saint Devote]

:laugh:

I'm amazed at the amount of people defending Eddie Irvine just to attack Button. I'm not a fan of Button but these back-and-forth squabbles are getting quite obnoxious.

I am not surprised. The attacks on Jenson are irrational and flavored with vitriol. So how extreme can they get? Defending Irvine and anyone else that harbors resentment for Jenson. "My enemy's enemy is my friend".

Never have I see a cognitive dissonance as that displayed by the Jenson-resenters. And many of the anti-Jenson remarks are really pretty stupid and just make me laugh before or if I respond.

Amongs the most blatant displays are the criticism Jenson received for finishing second at Monza - why did he not win, huh? huh? - and yet on the final lap Lewis went and threw it into the barriers losing the points and the podium for Mclaren, yet he was feited for being "a racer". Imagine of Jenson had done that.....!

But on Feb 1 they will witness a shiny gleaming brand new MP4-25 with number ONE on the car and the newest world champion named Jenson driving it around. Nothing they can do about that except grind their teeth and think up all sorts of reasons why it should not be :D :D :D

I see you support Vettel - Autosport have displayed in their ratings a bias for Lewis and against Vettel. They prominently discuss Vettel's mistakes such as in Australia and Monte Carlo describing why he was "derated". Yet they omit entirely ALL the errors of Hamilton - such as Monte Carlo and Monza - and describe how incredible it was that he drove in 2009 and rate him first. But then Autosport cant help themselves and have NEVER criticized Hamilton for anything - wonder if political correctness-guilt is involved there? The Hamilton puff-piece by their grand prix editor after Monza verged on the "is Autosport a serious motor racing publication any longer". It was as bad as the Hamilton worship of that bald fat toad who used to be F1 Racing editor.

[Saint Devote]

I guess that's all that's happening in the off season. What else is there to squabble about without any resolution in sight? It almost makes me want to log on fictitiously so I can squabble from both sides of the fence. Trouble is, pino might ban both of me :(
As for Eddie, you can't really blame the guy; after all Senna whacked him in the back of his head for passing him.

Lucky for Senna he did not try that with drivers such as Jody Scheckter or Alan Jones because he WOULD have ended up with a mouthful of teeth.

[ShiftingGears]

Lucky for Senna he did not try that with drivers such as Jody Scheckter or Alan Jones because he WOULD have ended up with a mouthful of teeth.

:laugh:

And it would've been entirely deserved.

[F1boat]

Obviously as he can drive a car that isn't perfect while jensy pansy is unable to do anything worth remembering unless the conditions are perfectly suited to him.

Do you know what this means? That Rubens is a total loser, he will be a hero with a bad car and mediocre with a good car, but will never win a championship. While, if you have a good car, you can trust Jenson to do the job.

[CNR]

jenson needs to take more wins then lewis

Hamilton goads Alonso, the team-mate he 'blew away' (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/155820/1/hamilton_goads_alonso_the_team-mate_he_blew_away.html)
http://www.crash.net/f1/comments/155820/2/a/hamilton_goads_alonso_the_team-mate_he_blew_away.html

[ShiftingGears]

jenson needs to take more wins then lewis

Hamilton goads Alonso, the team-mate he 'blew away' (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/155820/1/hamilton_goads_alonso_the_team-mate_he_blew_away.html)
http://www.crash.net/f1/comments/155820/2/a/hamilton_goads_alonso_the_team-mate_he_blew_away.html

Hamilton feeling the need to tell everyone how good he is gets very grating very quickly.

[jens]

Actually I have started to admire Jenson's decision. He really wants to prove something and not maybe so much to others, but more to himself whether he really is a top ace or not - and racing alongside Lewis would be as good indicator as you can get. He wants a real challenge and motivator, which would really force to get the best out of himself. We may criticize him here, but he has his own way of responding - he won't escape to a midfield team being a comfortable #1, but has really decided to at least try to keep up with the very best. If he fails - well, no problem, since he isn't generally regarded highly anyway in relation to Hamilton. And he will have an answer to himself, how well he can possible fare against the best.

But most likely Hamilton will come out on top, just the question is by how much.

[ShiftingGears]

Well you got to give it to him for originality, as I don't think any F1 driver in the past has used this type of psychological warfare to attempt to unnerve opponents in the past... :)

Hamilton isn't the first arrogant and egocentric F1 driver and definitely isn't the last.

[Mia 01]

I am not surprised. The attacks on Jenson are irrational and flavored with vitriol. So how extreme can they get? Defending Irvine and anyone else that harbors resentment for Jenson. "My enemy's enemy is my friend".

Never have I see a cognitive dissonance as that displayed by the Jenson-resenters. And many of the anti-Jenson remarks are really pretty stupid and just make me laugh before or if I respond.

Amongs the most blatant displays are the criticism Jenson received for finishing second at Monza - why did he not win, huh? huh? - and yet on the final lap Lewis went and threw it into the barriers losing the points and the podium for Mclaren, yet he was feited for being "a racer". Imagine of Jenson had done that.....!

But on Feb 1 they will witness a shiny gleaming brand new MP4-25 with number ONE on the car and the newest world champion named Jenson driving it around. Nothing they can do about that except grind their teeth and think up all sorts of reasons why it should not be :D :D :D

I see you support Vettel - Autosport have displayed in their ratings a bias for Lewis and against Vettel. They prominently discuss Vettel's mistakes such as in Australia and Monte Carlo describing why he was "derated". Yet they omit entirely ALL the errors of Hamilton - such as Monte Carlo and Monza - and describe how incredible it was that he drove in 2009 and rate him first. But then Autosport cant help themselves and have NEVER criticized Hamilton for anything - wonder if political correctness-guilt is involved there? The Hamilton puff-piece by their grand prix editor after Monza verged on the "is Autosport a serious motor racing publication any longer". It was as bad as the Hamilton worship of that bald fat toad who used to be F1 Racing editor.

Agreed :s mokin:

[F1boat]

Actually I have started to admire Jenson's decision. He really wants to prove something and not maybe so much to others, but more to himself whether he really is a top ace or not - and racing alongside Lewis would be as good indicator as you can get. He wants a real challenge and motivator, which would really force to get the best out of himself. We may criticize him here, but he has his own way of responding - he won't escape to a midfield team being a comfortable #1, but has really decided to at least try to keep up with the very best. If he fails - well, no problem, since he isn't generally regarded highly anyway in relation to Hamilton. And he will have an answer to himself, how well he can possible fare against the best.

But most likely Hamilton will come out on top, just the question is by how much.

Even if he loses, if he is not destroyed, Jenson will win fans, I think. The only problem will be if Lewis beats him like he bested Kovalainen, but I do not think that this is likely.

[wedge]

I see you support Vettel - Autosport have displayed in their ratings a bias for Lewis and against Vettel. They prominently discuss Vettel's mistakes such as in Australia and Monte Carlo describing why he was "derated". Yet they omit entirely ALL the errors of Hamilton - such as Monte Carlo and Monza - and describe how incredible it was that he drove in 2009 and rate him first. But then Autosport cant help themselves and have NEVER criticized Hamilton for anything - wonder if political correctness-guilt is involved there? The Hamilton puff-piece by their grand prix editor after Monza verged on the "is Autosport a serious motor racing publication any longer". It was as bad as the Hamilton worship of that bald fat toad who used to be F1 Racing editor.

Because Hamilton wasn't racing for WDC last year. What did he have to lose from his errors last year?


Lewis is erratic and flamboyant, a good combination.

Jenson is fast, smooth and humble, a good combination.

Intersting how you bring up one's character. In recent decades its the Machiavellian, arrogant so & so's that have tended to become champions.

[wedge]

Any statement which includes the phrase "Eddie Irvine says" should be taken with a pinch of salt large enough to grit Britain's roads for a fortnight.

F1 could do with more people speaking their minds instead of having to rely on bland press releases from team PR.

[motetarip]

Intersting how you bring up one's character. In recent decades its the Machiavellian, arrogant so & so's that have tended to become champions.

Imho arrogance is a by-product of extreme confidence and a lack of respect. I wouldn't class Kimi, Lewis, or Jenson as particularly arrogant by F1 standards but they're certainly above average for the general population!

[wedge]

Imho arrogance is a by-product of extreme confidence and a lack of respect. I wouldn't class Kimi, Lewis, or Jenson as particularly arrogant by F1 standards but they're certainly above average for the general population!

Lying to the stewards and them blaming a team member and renowned employee and in effect lose employment due to a supposed error is considered normal?

[motetarip]

Lying to the stewards and them blaming a team member and renowned employee and in effect lose employment due to a supposed error is considered normal?

Stupidity from the team rather than Lewis personally, if you're referring to Australia last year.

[Valve Bounce]

F1 could do with more people speaking their minds instead of having to rely on bland press releases from team PR.

Unfortunately, when Eddie speaks his mind, the wire between his mind and his mouth is disconnected.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I rarely comment on this forum, but I must say that the man who won the World Championship isn't getting much respect. Well, I consider him the equal of Hamilton. They had the best car for most of the year, and they beat their teammate. They did the job they were paid for. Now they are on the same team. So if Jenson keeps up or beats Lewis, will all the Lewis lovers have an excuse? Jenson and most of his fans have never blowing his horn. The guy has been maligned forever and then last year he had a good car and did the job. No matter what people say, or what happens, who really cares? He proved he can do the job when he had the chance.

[Saint Devote]

Because Hamilton wasn't racing for WDC last year. What did he have to lose from his errors last year?



Intersting how you bring up one's character. In recent decades its the Machiavellian, arrogant so & so's that have tended to become champions.

Hamilton could have lost beating Ferrari in the championship, but most of all if he is being feited - and he is - as the greatest driver in the world by luminary publications such as Autosport, how come he misjudges so badly and crashes as he did at Monza and Monte Carlo?

And you consider it okay? People like you always accuse me here of making excuses for Jenson - I do not because as a long time fan of the Brit I am aware that it is something he would never want any true fan to do besides being dishonest.

Michael Schumacher used as the bench mark, did not make such mistakes on the last lap of a grand prix for a podium position.

When Jenson makes mistakes he does not sulk, he does not hide and he does not make excuses - Hamilton does all of this and those around him encourage it.

Jense lost Monte Carlo in 2005 and in Montreal he crashed off because of mistakes, and he was the FIRST one to stop any form of excuse. Hamilton is always excused.

Jenson, conducts his usual media meetings with racing journalists during the season and has done so for years. It is a personal invitation to sit down and have lunch with him and no questions are forbidden. This includes times when and the journalists who have written pretty critical things about him.

But Jense strives to be his usual self and does not LIE, is sure of himself and always treats the press decently.

Nothing wrong with Kimi's character, or Jenson's. Hamilton has made mistakes and his moral courage is definitely weak. He was part of the purge that used Ryan as a scapegoat. Hamilton is kind to his fans but perhaps he has always been protected in cozy environments. I hope he has made his peace with Ryan and that 2009 tempered him.

You want an example of highest character? One name: Damon Hill. The way he conducted himself after Australia in 1995 ought to have made every British fan and all his supporters as well as anyone that loves formula one extremely proud - definitely a chip off the old block is Damon! I am sure his son Josh racing with Jamun in FF will do the family proud in 2010.

[Saint Devote]

Even if he loses, if he is not destroyed, Jenson will win fans, I think. The only problem will be if Lewis beats him like he bested Kovalainen, but I do not think that this is likely.

Jenson is no Kovaleinen.

This is the same Jenson that was being written off not THAT long ago. General opinion is fickle and ignorant.

Its easy to become a fan of Jenson's now. He is the champion, he drives for Mclaren.....

The great Austrian Niki Lauda said when he became WDC he would fron then on never know if people wanted to know him because he was now "Lauda". He would therefore cherish the friends he had before when he was just another BRM driver.

Similarly Jenson's true fans will cheer him on regardless because we did so when he was struggling with the Renault and that difficult SOB Briatore, and the BAR and so on. Because we know that he ALWAYS does his best at the time and whether Hamilton beats him or not.

Because we support Jenson - the driver and person we have all come to know in racing for over a decade - god is it that long! - and as a result respect who he is and derive a great deal of happiness and satisfaction as his fans.

[wedge]

Hamilton could have lost beating Ferrari in the championship,

That was 2008.

What did Hamilton have to lose in 2009?

In the same way your precious Vettel was marked down for crashing out of Monaco and compromising Singapore GP.


but most of all if he is being feited - and he is - as the greatest driver in the world by luminary publications such as Autosport, how come he misjudges so badly and crashes as he did at Monza and Monte Carlo?

Errr

Silverstone 2008 & Fuji 2007 - wins equal to Fangio, Stewart winning at the fabled 'Ring, Senna in Portugal '84 & Donnington '93, Vettel in Monza '08.

Apart from Hungary '06 - and arguably gifted win, Jenson can only dominate when he has the right car.



Michael Schumacher used as the bench mark, did not make such mistakes on the last lap of a grand prix for a podium position.

Doesn't mean to say he hasn't made mistakes.



When Jenson makes mistakes he does not sulk

He complained and sulking more about tyres and than Rubens did last year.

[Valve Bounce]

Similarly Jenson's true fans will cheer him on regardless because we did so when he was struggling with the Renault and that difficult SOB Briatore, and the BAR and so on.
.

Where, when and in which forum?

[Tumbo]

It's interesting the way that ppl are not comparing like with like - even you Saint. When one looks at the 'attitude' of Jenson in relation to mistakes and the like we need to go back to 2002, WHY?? because back then he was only in his 3rd season of F1 - surprising really that Hamilton who has completed 3 seasons of F1 (albeit with a very good development programme) is being viewed like a schumacher who won 7 titles over a career spanning 15 seasons.

Jensen has talent that isn't in question but whether he is equal to Hamilton will be interesting to see. Yes Hamilton made mistakes in his title defence last yr but coming off a rookie 1point loss (with mistakes thrown in) and 2nd season win (with fewer season breaking mistakes) and a 3rd season that saw him fight for wins in a car well down on the grid it is hard not to say that he has some talent as well.

Bit confusing though that the same rules apply to both Jensen and Hamilton right now without considering the experience difference.

[Saint Devote]

You people still do not get it.

As one of Jenson's Barmy Army we do not care who Jenson beats - we just want him to win. But if not, then we know he does his best and we cheer him on. Whether its Hamilton or any other driver makes no difference.

My mentioning of Hamilton is merely a comparison for 2009 - just look how Hamilton is NEVER criticized no matter what yet if Jenson did the same he would be attacked on this forum with spiteful glee.

Similarly Vettel was "downrated" by Autosport for committing significant errors and these errors were HIGHLIGHTED - yet Hamilton was considered to be the best driver of 2009 and NOT A SINGLE MENTION was made of his errors in Mote Carlo or Monza. In the Italisn Grand Prix report Autosport even PRAISED Hamilton for his performance at Monza.

It is this double standard that is unjust.

If Jenson does race better than Hamilton in 2010, I cannot even imagine how the Jenson-resenters on forums such as this or the Autosport Hamilton cheering squad will react.

I am with the Kimi when he declared as "stupid" people some weeks ago those who said Jenson was "unworthy".

I recommend reading the interview with Ross the boss Brawn, now 25% co-owner of the Mercedes team, in Motorsport. It will explain the whole psyche and the way things were at Brawn during the extraordinary 2009 year. perhaps even soften the hardcore Jenson-resenters here although I doubt t because I suspect for some reason that resentment is now pathalogical.

It reminds me of British fan attitudes towards Schumacher during his Ferrari days.

And given a good car, if Schumacher finds his stride, favorites Hamilton and Vettel are going to be whipped like they have never been before.

The only driver with an answer to Schumacher is Alonso and if he is beaten then never mind the resentment for Jenson, Vettel and Hamilton will have a gigantic issue to settle as the press ask critical questions - will definitely be a new experience for Hamilton.

It could just be that a driver like Button will find his stride in an f1 that for the first time in many years how WELL a driver treats his tyres and the smoother the driver the better is required.

The understeer smooth precision of Jenson will be favoured rather than the oversteer power driving of people such as Hamilton.

2010 is going to answer many questions.

[Saint Devote]

It's interesting the way that ppl are not comparing like with like - even you Saint. When one looks at the 'attitude' of Jenson in relation to mistakes and the like we need to go back to 2002, WHY?? because back then he was only in his 3rd season of F1 - surprising really that Hamilton who has completed 3 seasons of F1 (albeit with a very good development programme) is being viewed like a schumacher who won 7 titles over a career spanning 15 seasons.

There has never been a debutant driver as well prepared as Hamilton yet he only equalled the performance of Jacques Villeneuve overall in his first two years and this in a team that overwhelmingly favored him because he was already part of Mclaren for years.

Jenson in his early years had to deal with a Renault - not the greatest car but even worse he had Briatore constantly haranguing him as well as the early Jenson resenters criticizing him for his partying and jet-setting lifstyle. Fatso journos and others pointing fingers - wot a bloody cheek!!! And then there was the contract issue that blew up.....

Hamilton was damn fortunate and to his credit made the most of it that he could.

I could never support Hamilton because to me he epitomizes a modern grand prix "mama's boy" with everything given to him and protected in a special world. And to boot his backing out of the triathlon challenge HE posed to Jenson. WHAT a baby!

Give me toughies like Webber and Button any day. Even Alonso comes across as a little light in the loafers - but he is European so its quite normal.

But then I come from a country where toughness is considered normal and crying to mama is just not tolerated.

[PSfan]

I am not surprised. The attacks on Jenson are irrational and flavored with vitriol. So how extreme can they get? Defending Irvine and anyone else that harbors resentment for Jenson. "My enemy's enemy is my friend".

Never have I see a cognitive dissonance as that displayed by the Jenson-resenters. And many of the anti-Jenson remarks are really pretty stupid and just make me laugh before or if I respond.



You know, "my enemy's enemy is my friend" is not the right cliche for this instance... Try "even a broken clock is right 2 times a day"

And you of all people should avoid a thread where an Eddie Irvine article is concerned, cause no matter what he has said, it pales in comparisons from some of your recent gems of absurdity... lets just wrap our minds around "Brawn GP once again becoming a manufacturer owned team" had even the slightest influence Button going to McLeran... I don't think Irvine has said anything half as "far out"

I for one agree with Irvine's statement about Button going to McLeran because it would be better for his reputation to be beat by Hamilton then Rosberg... which is to say, I also disagree with the theory that McLeran holds the bigger challenge for Button. from my perspective, the bigger challenge would have been to prove 2009 not a fluke at Brawn, but clearly there is less risk involved at McLeran.

[Valve Bounce]

Similarly Jenson's true fans will cheer him on regardless because we did so when he was struggling with the Renault and that difficult SOB Briatore, and the BAR and so on. Because we know that he ALWAYS does his best at the time and whether Hamilton beats him or not.

Because we support Jenson - the driver and person we have all come to know in racing for over a decade - god is it that long! - and as a result respect who he is and derive a great deal of happiness and satisfaction as his fans.

Again I ask: Where and when did you support Jenson Button and in which forum?

[Sonic]

Similarly Vettel was "downrated" by Autosport for committing significant errors and these errors were HIGHLIGHTED - yet Hamilton was considered to be the best driver of 2009 and NOT A SINGLE MENTION was made of his errors in Mote Carlo or Monza. In the Italisn Grand Prix report Autosport even PRAISED Hamilton for his performance at Monza.

It is this double standard that is unjust.



God I can't believe I'm going to do this, but......

On driving talent Hamilton IMO was the best driver of 2009. We haved just witnessed what may, 10-15 years down the line, be remembered in the same moment as Senna's amazing '93 season. What might have slipped the memory in the 17 years since amazing displays such as Donny is that whilst pushing like mad in an underpowered and outclassed car Senna too made errors. Ironically Monza springs to mind where the Brazilian crashed into Brundle IIRC. The point is that, quite rightfully, the amazing performances that the likes of Senna and Hamilton are capable of are far more important that the ineviatable mistakes made by drivers pushing beyond the level of most mere mortals.

Hamiltons morals are questionable but he is clearly a class above the majority of the grid.
[/quote]

[CNR]

Again I ask: Where and when did you support Jenson Button and in which forum?

under a different name ?

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127785&page=3

[Valve Bounce]

under a different name ?

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127785&page=3

Surely you are not suggesting Wedge and Saint Devote are the same guy?

[Sonic]

Surely you are not suggesting Wedge and Saint Devote are the same guy?

Nah, St.D's posts are waaaay more rambling than wedges! :D

[CNR]

Surely you are not suggesting Wedge and Saint Devote are the same guy?
NO

but this sounds like it
BM



Crying shame that Button hasn't had a decent car, he has the talents to be top 3 but not in that crate.

JB and Davidson would make for a cracking line up, but they must give them a decent car or JB's career will be wasted.

[Valve Bounce]

NO

but this sounds like it
BM

Now that you mention it, there is a distinct similarity, and BM has disappeared.

[F1boat]

Unfortunately, when Eddie speaks his mind, the wire between his mind and his mouth is disconnected.

Valve, you rule!

[F1boat]

Again I ask: Where and when did you support Jenson Button and in which forum?

Where one forum member goes is no business to other member.

I've never been a fan of the play it safe attitude I'm afraid and thats exactly what Button used in Monaco 2005.

Which, given that he wasn't at the race due to BAR-Hondas two race ban, is a spectacular achievement, "playing it safe" or not.

I was at Monaco that year, and don't remember seeing Button running around the track without a car.....that was 2009.

[wedge]

My mentioning of Hamilton is merely a comparison for 2009 - just look how Hamilton is NEVER criticized no matter what yet if Jenson did the same he would be attacked on this forum with spiteful glee.

Similarly Vettel was "downrated" by Autosport for committing significant errors and these errors were HIGHLIGHTED - yet Hamilton was considered to be the best driver of 2009 and NOT A SINGLE MENTION was made of his errors in Mote Carlo or Monza. In the Italisn Grand Prix report Autosport even PRAISED Hamilton for his performance at Monza.

It is this double standard that is unjust.

What double standard?

What did Hamilton stand to lose last year with his errors compared to Vettel?

Vettel's errors cost him the WDC, at what cost were Hamilton's errors?

Asked countless times and no answer.


I've never been a fan of the play it safe attitude

I too err towards attacking drivers but there are circumstances that call for consolidating points/position - and Hamilton has yet to show this from his own initiative.

[ioan]

Do you know what this means? That Rubens is a total loser...

He still has like 60% more wins than Button. Not bad for a loser.

[F1boat]

He still has like 60% more wins than Button. Not bad for a loser.

But he doesn't have the big prize :)

[Saint Devote]

What double standard?

What did Hamilton stand to lose last year with his errors compared to Vettel?

Vettel's errors cost him the WDC, at what cost were Hamilton's errors?

Asked countless times and no answer.



I too err towards attacking drivers but there are circumstances that call for consolidating points/position - and Hamilton has yet to show this from his own initiative.

No, no - we are not going to go round and round while you merely ask the same rquestions that have been fully answered. You hate Button and thats the end of it. No matter what he does or how he does it you will criticize.

If there is one detestable thing that some posters have here it is their sense of injustice - not giving credit to drivers where due - and you are one of the biggest offenders here.

Therefore the discussion over Button with you as far as I am concerned is permanantly closed.

[Saint Devote]

Again I ask: Where and when did you support Jenson Button and in which forum?

You must be a real joy to your wife or girlfriend...... :eek:

This is the first and only forum I belong to - and I visited this site for a long time before even investigating what it was about.

Satisfied Herr Oberst?

Actually I am not sure it has been the best idea because I never even imagined that there would be an actual dislike and resentment for a driver like Jense. Its really sad how bitter some folks are here where he is concerned.

I am sure half the posts I have accumulated are in his defense.

[wedge]

No, no - we are not going to go round and round while you merely ask the same rquestions that have been fully answered.

No you haven't


If there is one detestable thing that some posters have here it is their sense of injustice - not giving credit to drivers where due - and you are one of the biggest offenders here.

Hypocrite

So it OK to criticise a driver you hate and not a driver you like.

You think its OK for Vettel to crash out of Monaco with WDC on the line and yet Hamilton crashing out of Monza with nothing on the line warrants more criticism.

You despise Hamilton regardless

[ioan]

You people still do not get it.

So what?!
Don't we have the right to disagree with your 'views'?

[ioan]

But he doesn't have the big prize :)

Gifted to him by Ross Brawn?! Maybe it's better this way.

[F1boat]

We all know Ross is good at gifting World Championships to people, but thats not relevant in this discussion and is only inflaming the arguement.

Checkmate :)

[Saint Devote]

No you haven't



Hypocrite

So it OK to criticise a driver you hate and not a driver you like.

You think its OK for Vettel to crash out of Monaco with WDC on the line and yet Hamilton crashing out of Monza with nothing on the line warrants more criticism.

You despise Hamilton regardless

Despise Lewis? No.
I take exception to the double standard that others are criticized for the same things that Lewis gets a free pass.

I do think he lacks moral courage because of events and his shying away from the triathlon challenge HE made to Jenson I find cowardly - its not important that you beat Jense, Lewis, its that you took on the challenge that counts. Similarly Jenson taking on the challenge of Lewis at Mclaren says a lot about Jenson and makes me proud of him.

Despise Lewis? No.
Insofar as fans are concerned, he is kind and considerate. He showed great self-control after the racist attitudes of people in Spain and Brazil.

He is a joy to watch in a racing car when he "lets himself be Lewis" and when his car is handling well it is an immense challenge to his rivals on the track to beat him.

I did not at all say that is was okay for Vettel to crash??!! Please actually READ or comprehend what I write. I said it was a double standard for the media to highlight Vettel mistakes and ignore Hamilton's faux pas.

Both Vettel and Hamilton made unnecessary errors this year and given how they are feted, especially Lewis with all the condsiderable advantages he has and in his THIRD year in f1 with Mclaren, these mistakes make both of them look less like Michael Schuamcher than anything else they have done.

Lewis was given a free pass when he crashed during a critical period of qualifying at Mirabeau - yet his temmate Heikki crashes at a point at the Piscine where for decades it has even caught out people such as Niki Lauda, and the heads are shaken and his position in the team is questioned.

That is what I am against.

BTW I despise no racing driver - but I do despise those who attack them.

[Saint Devote]

So what?!
Don't we have the right to disagree with your 'views'?

You have the right to disagree but not to spin the words.

BTW that brings Ross Brawn's tally of gifted world titles to SIX Schuamcher FIVE and Jenson ONE - wonder if he will decide to gift one to Nico or maybe there is a secret arrangement with Schumi :rolleyes:

[Hondo]

Since you've all been waiting, here's my thoughts. These thoughts may or may not expire at midnight tonight.
We always assume that those we consider "top teams" will deliver a good car to the grid. As recent history confirms, this is not always the case. I look for Red Bull to be the early leader in 2010. They started with a good car, finished with a good car and developed a car both of their drivers can drive well. Webber ran Vettle harder than most people expected. They are the only team without driver changes. Ferrari, as long as it is "Di Montezemolo's" team again will continue to clown around and shoot it's self in the foot. Brawn and Schumacher will do quite well because they are Brawn and Schumacher and have a track record that's hard to argue with.

And now, drum roll please, McLaren! Ok, Hamilton has long experience with McLaren and their way of doing business. Luca Badoer had long experience with Ferrari and their way of doing business and it didn't help him. Button seems to get on well with his teams and although Flav didn't want him, Williams and Honda sure did. Flav wanted JV and Piquet Jr, lol. Hamilton and Button both have Dads that hang around the paddock. The problem with comparing Hamilton to Button is the new, unknown dimension. Button is now the World Driving Champion. He has the shirt and got the card in his wallet. He has never been one of those before. I've heard that changes people. The race that put the championship in his pocket was a very unButtonlike drive. Maybe it's a sign of things to come. I think Button will be tougher than many think he will be. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a lead over Hamilton.

[Saint Devote]

Since you've all been waiting, here's my thoughts. These thoughts may or may not expire at midnight tonight.
We always assume that those we consider "top teams" will deliver a good car to the grid. As recent history confirms, this is not always the case. I look for Red Bull to be the early leader in 2010. They started with a good car, finished with a good car and developed a car both of their drivers can drive well. Webber ran Vettle harder than most people expected. They are the only team without driver changes. Ferrari, as long as it is "Di Montezemolo's" team again will continue to clown around and shoot it's self in the foot. Brawn and Schumacher will do quite well because they are Brawn and Schumacher and have a track record that's hard to argue with.

And now, drum roll please, McLaren! Ok, Hamilton has long experience with McLaren and their way of doing business. Luca Badoer had long experience with Ferrari and their way of doing business and it didn't help him. Button seems to get on well with his teams and although Flav didn't want him, Williams and Honda sure did. Flav wanted JV and Piquet Jr, lol. Hamilton and Button both have Dads that hang around the paddock. The problem with comparing Hamilton to Button is the new, unknown dimension. Button is now the World Driving Champion. He has the shirt and got the card in his wallet. He has never been one of those before. I've heard that changes people. The race that put the championship in his pocket was a very unButtonlike drive. Maybe it's a sign of things to come. I think Button will be tougher than many think he will be. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a lead over Hamilton.

They do both have dad's hanging around the garage - will be interesting when they get into a close 1-2 on the track!!!

Jenson has changed - his close circle stated that at Yas Marina he was someone that they had not seen form years and put it down to his achieving his dream of becoming world champion and his racing from Interlagos onwards completely changed - Ross Brawn noticed this too.

I think he will now let his natural aggression in a racing car out far more. He has a new challenge in a new team as world champion. Button IS a very controlled driver - he reminds me of Alain Prost that way, no unesseccary steering whjeel movements and the best on tyres according to the Bridgestone CEO last year.

I think Alonso will control the chaos at Ferrari - the team has always responded well to a driver like Fernando, no weakness in his game. This was so with Lauda and Schumacher.

[Saint Devote]

That will be interesting to see the two dad's sharing the same space, although Anthony is an employee whereas John is a proud father. I don't think we'll see any unpleasantries, and I get the impression John lets Jenson do the talking whereas Lewis has a different level of respect with his father being his manager etc.

I think we all noticed a huge lift in Jenson's performance at Interlagos in particular seeing as he was running out of chances to clinch the WDC. He admitted post race that the pressure had got to him after the British GP, and it was amazing to see him fight the fear and get the job done. He goes to Mclaren as the current WDC, but he is facing someone who has achieved the same dream and has a team built around him. Its going to be tough and he has to prove the doubters wrong that he struggles with transition, but I think he can overcome these hurdles and hopefully help Mclaren to the constructors championship. I'm not suggesting he won't win the WDC, its just for me I hope it's Lewis... :)


PS- we can't really compare the "triathlongate" saga of 2007 here IMO.. I would be interested to hear Jenson's answer if Lewis had laid down a similar challenge at Hungary 2009 with Jenson being at the height of clinching his WDC. We'll never know, but lets leave the "coward" accusations out of it seeing as they were in different circumstances.

I do not at all think that there will be anything unpleasant between the Hamilton and Button fathers.

Jenson raced in the London Triathlon last year but Lewis did not take him on either there.

[ioan]

Oh for goodness sake. In the words of the late Bill Hicks, "let it go man".. :s mokin:

:D

[Saint Devote]

Oh for goodness sake. In the words of the late Bill Hicks, "let it go man".. :s mokin:


Maybe Lewis should buy him a pint if he's as cut up about it as his fans.

I dont like cowardly behavior which is why I could never support a driver like Hamilton when there are toughies like Webber and Button around.

And I will raise this issue as frequently as it warrants. Geddit?

[ioan]

...when there are toughies like...Button around.

For 'toughie' he sure whines a lot.

[motetarip]

For 'toughie' he sure whines a lot.

YouTube is filled with the post-race whines of every driver who's ever lost a race, I don't think Button is any worse than anyone else. What are you supposed to say in a post-race press conference? You're not going to criticise yourself to the world's press.

If you're looking for a proper whiner then I'd refer you to Webber...

[ioan]

YouTube is filled with the post-race whines of every driver who's ever lost a race, I don't think Button is any worse than anyone else.

I was talking about his in race whining. ;)

[motetarip]

I was talking about his in race whining. ;)

Just another of his many talents! :p :

[wedge]

BTW I despise no racing driver - but I do despise those who attack them.

Nothing wrong with that

Drivers have flaws. Nothing wrong with exposing them regardless of one's allegiances.

It is contradictions and hypocrisy I cannot stand.

[wedge]

I do not at all think that there will be anything unpleasant between the Hamilton and Button fathers.

Apparently they have history that goes back to their karting days. Hamiltons used to use John Button's machinery/workmanship. There was some ill affair that was speculated in a different forum.


Jenson raced in the London Triathlon last year but Lewis did not take him on either there.

What's that got to do with racing in F1 or being a worth WDC?

Perhaps Jenson should enter the Anthropology World Championships instead

[Robinho]

I was talking about his in race whining. ;)

well when you've got access to all the radio transmissions from all drivers at all races from last year, please do let us know who whined about their car, other drivers, state of the tyres, racetrack, officials, traffic etc the most. should be easy, there can't be many transmissions, and i'm sure the drivers are usually full of 100% positive messages so should be a quick job.

or maybe there is loads of radio traffic, and the directors treat us to the stuff from the main protaganists in the race/championship, so what we hear will not be a cross section of average messages? nah, that wouldn't fit your agenda

[Robinho]

Apparently they have history that goes back to their karting days. Hamiltons used to use John Button's machinery/workmanship. There was some ill affair that was speculated in a different forum.



What's that got to do with racing in F1 or being a worth WDC?

Perhaps Jenson should enter the Anthropology World Championships instead

yeah i believe Hamilton used engines built/maintained/tweaked by Mr Button in the early Karting days, not sure of any dodgy history, but being karting i wouldn't exactly be surprised

[Valve Bounce]

This is the first and only forum I belong to - and I visited this site for a long time before even investigating what it was about.

Actually I am not sure it has been the best idea because I never even imagined that there would be an actual dislike and resentment for a driver like Jense. Its really sad how bitter some folks are here where he is concerned.

I am sure half the posts I have accumulated are in his defense.

OK! so let me get this straight. All the time that Jenson Button was getting flogged, at Renault and also by the Super Aguri, you were sneaking in here supporting Jenson on the quiet.

But as soon as Jenson Button won the first 6 out of 7 races last year, and one of the leading bookmakers had already declared him the champion and were paying out for it, you registered and became the most vocal Jenson Button supporter in this forum.

I think that just about sums it up.

[Saint Devote]

OK! so let me get this straight. All the time that Jenson Button was getting flogged, at Renault and also by the Super Aguri, you were sneaking in here supporting Jenson on the quiet.

But as soon as Jenson Button won the first 6 out of 7 races last year, and one of the leading bookmakers had already declared him the champion and were paying out for it, you registered and became the most vocal Jenson Button supporter in this forum.

I think that just about sums it up.

Stop being a git.

I used to read the news and look at the pictures but never bothered with the forum. Why did I decide to join in - who the hell knows or cares. Maybe one day I'll get tired of people like you and leave.

Now can we change the subject or is your life so goddamn boring that Saint Devote is a subject for discussion.

[ioan]

I used to read the news and look at the pictures but never bothered with the forum. Why did I decide to join in - who the hell knows or cares.

Why did you quit the Autosport Forum, where you had the very same nick as here?

[Valve Bounce]

Stop being a git.

I used to read the news and look at the pictures but never bothered with the forum. Why did I decide to join in - who the hell knows or cares. Maybe one day I'll get tired of people like you and leave.

Now can we change the subject or is your life so goddamn boring that Saint Devote is a subject for discussion.

I was just wondering where you earned the bragging rights of Jenson Buttons great supporter in the years when he was being flogged at Renault etc. Maybe some of us are getting tired of your incessant bragging and gloating - did you ever consider that?

[pino]

Maybe some of us are getting tired of your incessant bragging and gloating - did you ever consider that?



Maybe I am getting tired of your childish fight and you all will be banned for a month...ever consider that ? So how about you, ioan and Saint Devote finally put each other on your ignoring list...that would be great !

[F1boat]

I was just wondering where you earned the bragging rights of Jenson Buttons great supporter in the years when he was being flogged at Renault etc. Maybe some of us are getting tired of your incessant bragging and gloating - did you ever consider that?

The forum is a sad place if its members are against fans happy about their favorite driver winning. The rest of your posting is an infringement of St. Devote's privacy.
Now I hope that we can continue about Jenson! I believe that many people criticize him because they have their own order of drivers and hate when someone breaks it :) But I am happy for Jenson because his story is like a movie scenario - from zero in a bankrupt team to hero and champion with a rookie team :) Also he is likable and not playing the bada$$ role which maybe annoys some people.

[Mia 01]

The forum is a sad place if its members are against fans happy about their favorite driver winning. The rest of your posting is an infringement of St. Devote's privacy.
Now I hope that we can continue about Jenson! I believe that many people criticize him because they have their own order of drivers and hate when someone breaks it :) But I am happy for Jenson because his story is like a movie scenario - from zero in a bankrupt team to hero and champion with a rookie team :) Also he is likable and not playing the bada$$ role which maybe annoys some people.

St. devote is a real and honest fan.

[wedge]

The forum is a sad place if its members are against fans happy about their favorite driver winning. The rest of your posting is an infringement of St. Devote's privacy.
Now I hope that we can continue about Jenson! I believe that many people criticize him because they have their own order of drivers and hate when someone breaks it :) But I am happy for Jenson because his story is like a movie scenario - from zero in a bankrupt team to hero and champion with a rookie team :) Also he is likable and not playing the bada$$ role which maybe annoys some people.

No it is not.

The forum is a sad place when members are only happy for their own drivers and but cannot handle criticism and can only dish criticism on their least respected drivers.

This is a discussion board. We are here to discuss rights and wrongs, positives and negatives, not slap each other on the back.

[pino]

If you want to discuss about this forum start another thread, now back to Jenson Button...thank you !

[wedge]

If you want to discuss about this forum start another thread, now back to Jenson Button...thank you !

But we are discussing Button but some would rather ejaculate over Button than discuss

[Sonic]

Now I'm the first to be critical of Jenson (I just don't like the guy) but I've been watching the season review DVD and those early season drives were A MAZE ING! The onboard qualifying lap at Monaco being a real highlight. Incredible commitment, great car control and so much spare capacity - adjusting brake bias mid tunnel - and good humor to boot. Now if the guy were like that all the time I'd be right onboard the Jenson band wagon but his second half drives were half hearted and the humor just sapped right out of him.

[JBAFCB]

But we are discussing Button but some would rather ejaculate over Button than discuss

Nice, real mature. Tho who can really blame us Jenson fans for get rather excited after 10 years of being told how he is, he goes from not having a drive to winning the world championship

Tho a huge and avid fan I'm not one who wears the tinited specs, I support the guy cause I like him and he's british. Tho I don't particuarly like Lewis Hamilton I have a lot of respect for him as a driver and I do believe he will have the edge over Jense this season

I jst thought it was a little harsh he was getting so much stick before a wheel had been turned

[F1boat]

But we are discussing Button but some would rather ejaculate over Button than discuss

No, JB fans are happy for him and think that he is a very good Formula 1 driver. This is part of the discussion, IMo a better part than "Michael beat him in 2004, so he is crap".

[motetarip]

As I've posted before on another thread, I believe Jenson is highly talented at controlling the car but do believe he lost his mental strength mid-season when he started to doubt the car. He may be considered less as a driver by many but I rate him more as a person as a result - I don't like people who are so arrogant that they believe that they are infallible. Having won the WDC the pressure from last year is gone so hopefully he'll have a very good 2010.

[F1boat]

He may be considered less as a driver by many but I rate him more as a person as a result - I don't like people who are so arrogant that they believe that they are infallible.

Yes! As I said, him winning the championship was cute, like a Hollywood movie.

[ioan]

Yes! As I said, him winning the championship was cute, like a Hollywood movie.

Make that Bollywood.


But we are discussing Button but some would rather ejaculate over Button than discuss

Couldn't have said it better.

[Mia 01]

Jenson is just as good as FA.

It will be interesting.

[Hondo]

I came to this site for a long time to catch the news and read a column called "Bouguets and Bric a Bats". An accidental mouse click put me in the forums one day, I started reading, and here I am. I have been and may still be in other forums but this one is home and my favorite. Why? There is an emotional level on this forum unmatched by any others and secondly, we never allow facts to get in the way of our arguments. A great scientist once said you can never truly measure anything absolutely because the act of measurement alone introduces an artificial condition. I am proud to be a member of this distinquished body of people that can take any fact, any statistic, any theory, any wee bit of data, any tuna fish sandwich and twist it, squeeze it, stomp it, peel it, deny it, and shape it into meaning what they need it to mean to support their argument.

Gentlemen, I applaud you all!

However, there will always be those, less enlightened but vastly outnumbering us, that accept and do not look beyond the official book of records. All of our ifs, buts, and twisting will not change those records. Jenson Button is the 2009 WDC. For me, a one time champion isn't proof of any outstanding ability and from my personal experiences in F1, I have to stand by that. We all like various teams and drivers for various reasons. Sometimes conditions change that cause conflict within our normal tipping comfort zone and we find ourselves supporting an outsider's potential or gutsy move or not being in 100 percent agreement with the antics of our favorite. I never paid any attention to Button before he went to BAR. With all the running off at the mouth Jacques Villeneuve did before the season, I began to like Button just because he was showing Villeneuve to be what he was, a mouth with a name. To those who say Button should have been able to do better in the 2005 car, I'll play the twisting game right back at some and say he might have been WDC in 2005 if he hadn't been stuck in a Villeneuve developed car.

Now we come to 2010. Button, at least he has an easy name to spell and pronounce, is coming as WDC to a major English team. There will be no communication barriers. He is coming to a team that can continue to develop and change their car during the season. He may be coming with an attitude that his career is just beginning. He and his personal team will be what they decide to make of it. It is not "Hamilton's team". For all this talk about Button having something to prove, I think perhaps Hamilton has something to fear.

[jens]

A bit pity for Saint Devote - he has to fight here almost alone. :\ But keep up the enthusiasm, which makes up for all the disadvantages - this is how it keeps the forum entertaining. :up:

[F1boat]

I was just wondering where you earned the bragging rights of Jenson Buttons great supporter in the years when he was being flogged at Renault etc. Maybe some of us are getting tired of your incessant bragging and gloating - did you ever consider that?

Valve, you have no right to demand information about the personal choices of a forum member. This is incredibly insulting and I hope that the mods will interfere.

[ioan]

Valve, you have no right to demand information about the personal choices of a forum member. This is incredibly insulting and I hope that the mods will interfere.

:confused: There was nothing insulting in Valve's post.

[SGWilko]

:confused: There was nothing insulting in Valve's post.

Errrrrrr, that was humour. I know it has no place on this forum, but still, nowt as queer as folk - eh?

[Mark]

Someone likes Jenson so much they've named their child "Jenson Sutton" :p
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/8463431.stm

[woody2goody]

I think it will be very close but I'm giving a slight edge to Button based on the fact that Hamilton can't even look after his tyres on a three-stop strategy, let alone a full tank.

I reckon Lewis will come strong in the second half once he has adapted his style, but it may be too late for the title by then.

[Valve Bounce]

Someone likes Jenson so much they've named their child "Jenson Sutton" :p
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/8463431.stm

All out burners in the Chem Lab were named after Bunsen. :p :

[Mia 01]

I think it will be very close but I'm giving a slight edge to Button based on the fact that Hamilton can't even look after his tyres on a three-stop strategy, let alone a full tank.

I reckon Lewis will come strong in the second half once he has adapted his style, but it may be too late for the title by then.

You got that right.

And remember that his aggressive style needs way moore fuel.

[Sonic]

You got that right.

And remember that his aggressive style needs way moore fuel.

Strange that. I don't remember Lewis running out of fuel once last year, unlike say, Massa.

[Mia 01]

Strange that. I don't remember Lewis running out of fuel once last year, unlike say, Massa.

Lewis will have to start with moore fuel than the others, or change his driving style.

Buttons style is smoother.

[Valve Bounce]

Lewis will have to start with more fuel than the others, or change his driving style.

Buttons style is smoother.

Does this have something to do with Climate Change, or is McLaren short of cash for the extra fuel?

[jens]

I think it will be very close but I'm giving a slight edge to Button based on the fact that Hamilton can't even look after his tyres on a three-stop strategy, let alone a full tank.


Umm, I remember Hamilton managed to look after his tyres quite nicely in that hot 2009 Hungarian Grand Prix. During 2009 I got the impression that Lewis has certainly improved in this area.

[555-04Q2]

Strange that. I don't remember Lewis running out of fuel once last year, unlike say, Massa.

That was a Ferrari mistake, not a driver error. Kimi also suffered once or twice due to Ferrari messing up the fuel level requirement.

[wedge]

I think it will be very close but I'm giving a slight edge to Button based on the fact that Hamilton can't even look after his tyres on a three-stop strategy, let alone a full tank.

I reckon Lewis will come strong in the second half once he has adapted his style, but it may be too late for the title by then.

Senna was an aggressive driver and still could beat Prost.

In 1989 Mexican GP Prost struggled to last a full stint on a set of tyres in the oppressive heat and Senna won the race.

[Mia 01]

Senna was an aggressive driver and still could beat Prost.

In 1989 Mexican GP Prost struggled to last a full stint on a set of tyres in the oppressive heat and Senna won the race.

Yes but as comment above, I´m not so sure Lewis can beat Jenson in thoose conditions.