F1 2010: Testing sessions thread

[f1indiablog]

This Thread has been started to talk about the upcoming testing sessions.

Help to keep everyone updated about the latest news in the testing sessions.

Here are the dates of the testing session:
February 1st – 3rd – Valencia (Ricardo Tormo), Spain
February 10th – 13th – Jerez, Spain
February 17th – 20th – Jerez, Spain
February 25th – 28th – Circuit de catalunya, Spain

Testing dates source:http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/05/2010-f1-testing-dates-confirmed

[V12]

Was going to start a new thread about this but might as well stick it here.

Anyone else annoyed at the testing ban? The winter used to be boring enough as it was F1-wise even when there was more testing going on, but at least we got to see new car/driver combinations bed themselves in, make early comparisons and predictions (often meaningless, but nothing better to do!).

Now it's all basically going to be done in one quick burst of just over a month :(

Can't wait for the 1st.

[f1indiablog]

BMW-Sauber (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-information/f1-teams/bmw/) will reveal its 2010 F1 car on January 31st at Valencia.
The wraps will come off the new car at 2:30pm local time.
Testing for the 2010 F1 season (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-2010-season/) will begin at the track the day after, when Mercedes will also launch their 2010 challenger.


Source: F1 fanatic

[Saint Devote]

:D
Was going to start a new thread about this but might as well stick it here.

Anyone else annoyed at the testing ban? The winter used to be boring enough as it was F1-wise even when there was more testing going on, but at least we got to see new car/driver combinations bed themselves in, make early comparisons and predictions (often meaningless, but nothing better to do!).

Now it's all basically going to be done in one quick burst of just over a month :(

Can't wait for the 1st.

I hate the test ban too, but the problem is how is the cost factor affected if there was no limitation.

On the positive side it is pressurized and THAT is very formula 1. Generally I like the Bernie idea of the racing teams having the Monday as test days.

I think the first testing times in 2010 will be the most waited for in many seasons given the new driver combinations and Schumacher factor.

The great advantage that a team gains with Ross and this is leveraged with Schumacher is that they RACE so well. That was evident last year at Brawn where Jenson was able to score points constantly and protect his lead.

The Ross factor cannot be underestimated given that Jenson tightened up so much inteh second part of the season. And this must be forgiven because what people forget that after ten years of struggle this was also something new for Jenson despite his experience.

I am sure that Schumacher is going to suck the air out of the room that first day he returns to the cockpit and begins to set times......!

I imagine that the circuit will attract a crowd rivvalling a grand prix on Feb 1 :D

[VkmSpouge]

Anyone else annoyed at the testing ban?

While I can't wait for the testing to start I am quite happy to have the testing ban to help reducing costs.

[f1indiablog]

I am sure that Schumacher is going to suck the air out of the room that first day he returns to the cockpit and begins to set times......!



Schumi comeback is hype only..

[52Paddy]

Schumi comeback is hype only..

With good reason. Come on man, there's no need for this... :dozey:

[Saint Devote]

Schumi comeback is hype only..

I sincerely hope you are merely trying to be idiotically provocative, because for someone like myself, who since when I was a little boy and my mother educated me as to who Jack Brabham was and gave me a toy of his racing car, I have been in love with motor racing, it is an offensive statement.

[Sonic]

Red Bull plan to skip the first test;

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80809

They've done it before, but I should think that with so little testing under current regulations getting the boots on the ground straight away would be important?

Do we take it at face value? Or are they behind schedule due to the relatively late confirmation of Renault engines?

[Saint Devote]

Red Bull plan to skip the first test;

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80809

They've done it before, but I should think that with so little testing under current regulations getting the boots on the ground straight away would be important?

Do we take it at face value? Or are they behind schedule due to the relatively late confirmation of Renault engines?

Testing has after all been discovered to be not AS vital these days as was always thought.

I don't think the RBR-Renault is in trouble based on the Mclaren engineers conclusion after last year's frenetic turnaround, that being able to test would have significantly SLOWED the amazing progress of the MP4-24.

Interesting.

And the question surrounding the Virgin-Cosworth is - will they discover that using CFD only and not any windtunnel is sound after all - just look at the 2009 Acura's performance in ALMS?

This confounded the rule that CFD-only is workable in the front but from the middle of the car its effectiveness drops sharply making it impossible to design an effective rear.

Virgin is definitely the most interesting concept this year.

[Saint Devote]

Mclaren were using the data from practise, qualifying, and races to develop the car in season. The events themselves were used as a testing platform.. It wasn't all done back in Woking.

Thats correct and many of the processes have been changed as a result. They had people at the track that had never attended a grand prix and it was as they said a "culture shock" for the race team as they had to act as a test team.

The factory was going 24 hours a day and they complimented the drivers in particular Lewis who they said worked intensely.

On the Friday night for example the carbon fabricators literally took over the garage and were cutting the floors that were to be used on the Saturday in qualifying - very "unMclaren" as they said.

They concluded that having the luxury of separate test sessions with a test team as it used to be would have been less effective than being forced to use Fridays as test sessions.

Great story is 2009 Mclaren :D

[Sonic]

Testing has after all been discovered to be not AS vital these days as was always thought.

I don't think the RBR-Renault is in trouble based on the Mclaren engineers conclusion after last year's frenetic turnaround, that being able to test would have significantly SLOWED the amazing progress of the MP4-24.

Interesting.

And the question surrounding the Virgin-Cosworth is - will they discover that using CFD only and not any windtunnel is sound after all - just look at the 2009 Acura's performance in ALMS?

This confounded the rule that CFD-only is workable in the front but from the middle of the car its effectiveness drops sharply making it impossible to design an effective rear.

Virgin is definitely the most interesting concept this year.

I see what you're saying with regards to McLaren (and others) having to adapt to last seasons lack of testing. However I don't think you can quite connect the dots so simply. It is impossible to say (without access to a alternate universe where test was permited) that the progress made on the McLaren would have slowed with in-season testing.

Its similar to when par ferme condtions were introduced. Reliabity improved. Can it be said with certainty that one caused the other? Possibly, but not without doubt.

[V12]

I'm not against the in-season testing ban so much, I can even stomach the ban from the end of the season to the end of the calendar year. I just don't see the reasoning in banning testing during January as well. OK none of the new cars have been launched yet, but wouldn't mind getting to see how Jenson gets on against Lewis in the '09 McLaren or Schuey take to the wheel of a repainted Brawn instead of a GP2 car.

I understand the cost concerns and I'd much rather see testing sacrificed ahead of introducing things like common parts and so on, I guess I'm just bored of waiting for the season to start! :)

[Saint Devote]

Considering how little money Brawn had to run the team during last season, it'll be interesting how much was spent developing their 2010 machine. They may have started alot later than others and a late injection of funds from Mercedes wouldn't have bought them any time. We may see them in a similar position to Mclaren in 2009, who knows? Mclaren made the mistake of concentrating most of their resources to the 2008 campaign, whcih left them on the back foot last season. I hope Mercedes/Brawn have not made the same mistake.

MS seems happy and positive with their work ethic, so only time will tell. :)

The aero rules are the same as far as I know - it is the fuel regs and tyres that are the greatest changes.

But I do agree with you in terms of Brawn falling behind in development during the season compared to Mclaren - how well have they salvaged the situation.

It was Ross who mentioned they had a difficult time trying to finish 2009 as well as they could as well as developing the 2010 car.

If they are behind it will not be as marked as Mclaren or Ferrari were in 2009.

[Saint Devote]

I see what you're saying with regards to McLaren (and others) having to adapt to last seasons lack of testing. However I don't think you can quite connect the dots so simply. It is impossible to say (without access to a alternate universe where test was permited) that the progress made on the McLaren would have slowed with in-season testing.

Its similar to when par ferme condtions were introduced. Reliabity improved. Can it be said with certainty that one caused the other? Possibly, but not without doubt.

The comment regarding testing and how slow or quickly they would have progressed was made during an inteview with the three primary Mclaren development engineers.

[winer]

Testing has after all been discovered to be not AS vital these days as was always thought.


I've heard other people say this too, but never seen any real facts or figures to back it up. It boggles my mind how you can design and build something as complex as an F1 car, and then proceed to racing with only a "minimal" amount of testing. I know a lot of "testing" is done on simulators, but surely "wheels on the ground" is the only real testing that matters. Does anyone have a link to explain the process for testing a new car?

[F1boat]

I'm not against the in-season testing ban so much, I can even stomach the ban from the end of the season to the end of the calendar year. I just don't see the reasoning in banning testing during January as well.

Same here.

[Sonic]

The comment regarding testing and how slow or quickly they would have progressed was made during an inteview with the three primary Mclaren development engineers.

Yes I infered as much from your previous statement. But, not wishing to sound like I know more than McLaren staff (because clearly I don't), they cannot say that the car would have progressed slower with in season testing because they have no evidence to support that claim. Just their, gut instict, as it were.

[CNR]

Lotus won't participate in first two tests
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5856715,00.html

Heikki Kovalainen has revealed that Lotus will not only miss the Valencia test, but also the second one Jerez.

The reason? The F1 newcomers don't have enough spare parts to test properly in the first two outings.



Red Bull boss Christian Horner has already confirmed his team will not head to the Circuito Ricardo Tormo as the RB6 won't be ready in time

i think this may be a bit of bull or should i say it will give other teams less time to copy the bull be fore the first race

[f1indiablog]

Are the NEW teams ready for F1: the pinnacle of motorsport?

[SGWilko]

Are the NEW teams ready for F1: the pinnacle of motorsport?

Nope, but F1 is being dragged down to a level that they can play on, sadly.

[F1boat]

i think this may be a bit of bull or should i say it will give other teams less time to copy the bull be fore the first race

Maybe, but IMO Red Bull pushed till the very end of 2009, so I am not surprised if they are a bit late.

[Sonic]

And Lotus can be forgiven for missing out the first couple of tests - they did have the shortest timetable of them all.

[Robinho]

didn't do Brawn any harm to miss a couple of tests

[Saint Devote]

didn't do Brawn any harm to miss a couple of tests

If you read what Ross Brawn said a while ago when asked about the difficulties of having to adapt the car to the engine and starting so late - he answered that they were constantly battling difficulties throughout the season and their advantage actually ended by the time they reached Bahrain.

He said it was similar to situations with Schumacher from then on where Schumi was not the "best" driver the weekend but he RACED better than the others and won.

He mentioned during the last part of the season the Barrichello side of the garage engineered the car better and Jenson's side would simply copy the set-up although Jenson continued to RACE extremely well - which includes the pit strategy don't forget.

Love to read what Ross one day will have to write about the incredible single season of Brawn GP - the only team in history to have a 100% championship record :s mokin:

[f1indiablog]

Lotus will launch its Formula One entry on Feb. 12, although it's still unclear where the car will be unveiled.
Source:http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2010-01-14-3158188207_x.htm


US F1 Team Signs Manager and Schedules First Test
Peter Windsor, US F1 sporting director, stated on the team's Web site (http://www.usgpe.com/) that the team has received permission to test there instead of taking part in the first pre-season practice session at Valencia, Spain.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2010-01-14-3158188207_x.htm

[f1indiablog]

1) Lotus F1 team : 12th Feb 2010
2) Mercedes F1 team: 28th Jan 2010
3) McLaren F1 team : 29th Jan 2010
4) Renault(Renault R30): 31st Jan 2010
5) BMW Sauber :31st Jan 2010
6) Ferrari: 28th Jan 2010
7) Williams(FW32): 1st Feb 2010
8) Toro Rosso(STR5) : 1st Feb 2010

[F1boat]

1) Lotus F1 team : 12th Feb 2010
2) Mercedes F1 team: 28th Jan 2010
3) McLaren F1 team : 29th Jan 2010
4) Renault(Renault R30): 31st Jan 2010
5) BMW Sauber :31st Jan 2010
6) Ferrari: 28th Jan 2010
7) Williams(FW32): 1st Feb 2010
8) Toro Rosso(STR5) : 1st Feb 2010

28th will be a big day with Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz...

[52Paddy]

Lotus will launch its Formula One entry on Feb. 12, although it's still unclear where the car will be unveiled.
Source:http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2010-01-14-3158188207_x.htm

That's good news to see at least one of the new teams getting a proper move on with things :up:



US F1 Team Signs Manager and Schedules First Test
Peter Windsor, US F1 sporting director, stated on the team's Web site (http://www.usgpe.com/) that the team has received permission to test there instead of taking part in the first pre-season practice session at Valencia, Spain.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2010-01-14-3158188207_x.htm

I can't find anything about that on the team's website but, taking the above as truth, it's good to see that they may be near to getting their feet off the ground on this one :up:

[Saint Devote]

Its not popular and he is somewhat outrageous in how he expalins himself but I go with Bernie's reckoning that until proven incorrect, there will be two teams that do not make it to the the Sakhir grid.

I wonder if it will be too cold to adequately test iin Europe - then the mid-east tracks look inviting?

After watching the Abu Dahbi Grand Prix again I have to declare that I have totally changed my view on the event. Perhaps "emotions of the season" we had - but I gave it a totally open mind shot and I enjoyed the grand prix and LIKE the track. The long straight is superb and the slight undualtion and corner difficulties are actually enjoyable to watch. So thumbs UP for the Yas Marina track.

I think it could be a good place to do early testing along with Sakhir.

Martin Brundle has also made a good statement at the Autosport show in Birmingham regarding reserve and new driver testing.

He makes some good comments on Alguersuari - whose career as a result of his 2009 f1 exploits appears to have been destroyed.

[f1indiablog]

orce India will join Red Bull Racing in missing the first of the pre-season Formula 1 tests that takes place at Valencia next month.The Silverstone-based outfit will not run its new car, the VJM3, until the Jerez test that begins on February 10.

[52Paddy]

orce India will join Red Bull Racing in missing the first of the pre-season Formula 1 tests that takes place at Valencia next month.The Silverstone-based outfit will not run its new car, the VJM3, until the Jerez test that begins on February 10.

That's another downer. But you should make a habit of posting the source of your info each time please :)

[f1indiablog]

[quote="52Paddy"]


Sure Sir. I will

[f1indiablog]

That's another downer. But you should make a habit of posting the source of your info each time please :)
Sure Sir

[F1boat]

Its not popular and he is somewhat outrageous in how he expalins himself but I go with Bernie's reckoning that until proven incorrect, there will be two teams that do not make it to the the Sakhir grid.

I wonder if it will be too cold to adequately test iin Europe - then the mid-east tracks look inviting?

After watching the Abu Dahbi Grand Prix again I have to declare that I have totally changed my view on the event.

Thumbs up! I respect people who can admit that they were wrong!

[jens]

Well, not much left until the first testing day. Time to have a bit of a warm up before it :) Often it is said that "tests count for nothing and especially the first few days are meaningless", but IMO it's completely opposite. I recommend to take a very serious note of what is going on on the first few test days. The experience from the past says that top cars are fast straight out of the box - they are fundamentally balanced and have a nice platform for further developments. Those, who are struggling, may try all kinds of bits and later on may even become competitive, but by then it would be too late to fight for the crowns. Excuses like "it's only testing and they will eventually come good", do not matter much. The brightest memories from the 2009 winter tests are the debuts of Red Bull and Brawn, who stunned the F1 community already with their very first laps. Who will shine in 2010? :s mokin:

[jens]

Maybe, but IMO Red Bull pushed till the very end of 2009, so I am not surprised if they are a bit late.

Red Bull was a bit late in pre-2009 too, revealing their car before mid-February, so I don't think there is much to worry. I remember a priceless picture from Day1 of Red Bull's testing at Jerez, when McLaren engineers were taking a very close and anxious look at RB5, who was waiting for a green light. :p : Of course back then most people were saying "nah McLaren is sandbagging and Red Bull is showboating, the season will show, who is the real top team, etc, etc..." :p : But in retrospect it can be said that the picture was very telling about the real situation.

[52Paddy]

It's very hard to guess who's going to be good and who's not. There are no tell-tale signs really. All three cars that have been launched so far (Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes) look more than decent and up to the challenge but looks aren't everything. I guess Ferrari will have stepped up their game from last year's disappointment. McLaren the same - though they did start coming good in the second part of 2009. Mercedes have Ross Brawn on board and, now that Brawn has more investment behind him, I expect him to be as threatening as he was during the first half of last year. As for the others, well we have nothing other than last year's form to go on. Red Bull will be the obvious ones to keep an eye on. After that, we'll have to just see who pulls what out of the bag.

How many teams are confirmed to make the first test anyway?

[maximilian]

Am I the only one who thinks that teams should be allowed three tests each, regardless of when they start testing? It just seems really harsh to the teams missing test sessions that they wouldn't be able to make those up elsewhere at another later date after getting their car put together. Why mandate the tests? As long as they get the equal number of "days" on approved tracks, wouldn't that make more sense? Some of the late arrivals will have a real struggle on their hands, which could have easily been avoided, giving them a fair shot at testing their car and getting some miles in. Wouldn't be too much to ask, IMO...

[gloomyDAY]

Anyone know a site where I can see streaming video or live timing?

[f1indiablog]

The following sites often have live timing information:
Motor 21 (http://www.motor21.com/)
F1 Today (http://www.f1today.nl/)

[Saint Devote]

First on track Buemi - 1.26.395 and Barrichello - 1.26.715 just a few minutes ago, nobody else on track.

[RJL25]

http://i.imgur.com/f5uPW.jpg

Ferrari's diffuser but still no sign of a pic of the Mclaren rear.. :)

Is that a triple?

ahh, the team complaining that other teams would still use a double diffuser and it's unfair has... a double diffuser!

Does Ferrari still have ANY credibility left whatsoever?

[SGWilko]

http://i.imgur.com/f5uPW.jpg

Ferrari's diffuser but still no sign of a pic of the Mclaren rear.. :)

Is that a triple?

Ah, so that's where Darth Vader left his head gear.....

[Big Ben]

ahh, the team complaining that other teams would still use a double diffuser and it's unfair has... a double diffuser!

Does Ferrari still have ANY credibility left whatsoever?

Maybe I didn't get it but didn't they say that they still thought the double diffuser legality was a bit of a stresch... however some teams seem to have bent the rules this year even more... like really beyond the breaking point??
However I don't want to make you understand things you want to misunderstand. My apologies.

[woody2goody]

Quick update just before 2pm:

1. Massa (Ferrari) - 1:13.088 (44 laps)
2. de la Rosa (Sauber) +0.159 (39)
3. Rosberg (Mercedes) +0.455 (39)
4. Paffett (McLaren) +0.804 (52)
5. Barrichello (Williams) +1.361 (42)
6. Kubica (Renault) +2.210 (37)
7. Buemi (STR) +6.191 (8)

[I am evil Homer]

Hard to tell without watching the sessions on TV but the Renault time isn't looking good, whereas Sauber is better than I thought. But that all depends on how good a benchmark Massa's time is...lets see what happens this afternoon

[woody2goody]

I knew that Sauber would be quick, and even though it's just the first morning it's looking good for them.

I hope Renault are not going for fast times because that's what they are not at the moment.

PS I wonder if there's a problem at Toro Rosso as Buemi's only done 8 laps and is just over 6 seconds down on Massa and de la Rosa.

[wedge]

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9302/26056891.jpg

[maximilian]

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9302/26056891.jpg
Amazing how everybody came up with a different idea there!! :eek:

[maximilian]

After a brief embarrassing stall, here he is, the King is back on the track.. :)

And already quicker than Rosberg!!! :D

[gloomyDAY]

Barrichello ran out of gas. :laugh:

[maximilian]

Barrichello ran out of gas. :laugh:
I think he would be the first of many this season! ;)

[gloomyDAY]

After a brief embarrassing stall, here he is, the King is back on the track.. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/cjp2005schumi.pngI didn't know that Button was testing today. :p

[Pulidor]

Position Number Driver Team Time Gap Laps

1º 7 Felipe Massa Ferrari 00:01'12''574 101
.2º 26 Pedro De la Rosa Sauber 00:01'12''784 00:00'00''210 74
.3º 3 Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 00:01'12''947 00:00'00''373 40
.4º 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 00:01'13''543 00:00'00''969 39
.5º 28 Gary Paffet McLaren 00:01'13''846 00:00'01''272 86
.6º 9 Rubens Barrichello Williams 00:01'14''449 00:00'01''875 75
.7º 16 Sebastian Buemi Toro Rosso 00:01'14''762 00:00'02''188 18
.8º 11 Robert Kubica Renault 00:01'15''000 00:00'02''426 69

[Pulidor]

Positive surprises:
-DLR: although they were probably running very low fuel to attract sponsors, they were consistent the whole day, with Pedro being the fastest driver for a loooong time, till the final 5 minutes rush.
-MSC: although he is who he is, and the track was faster in the afternoon, it is good to see him back in good shape, beating ROS.

Not surprises:
-McLaren: ok, 1 second off the pace, but we all know BUT and HAM are a lot faster than Paffet. Not worried about McLaren.

Negative surprises:
-We don't know about Renault, but we are certain that Williams was running on veeery light fuel loads (apparently Rubens stopped his car in the middle of the track with an empty fuel tank), and they were still 2 seconds off the pace in a "70seconds circuit". That's a lot IMO. 2 seconds difference here is 3 seconds and a half in Bahrain (now a "100seconds circuit")
- Poor reliability in the STR, with BUE only being able to put just a few laps due to a broken gearbox.

And please... don't start with the old "test times are not important" cliche, cause after Brawn last year it was clearly demonstrated that they do matter indeed, in 90% of the cases.

[Pulidor]

And please, don't start with the old "test times are not important" cliche, cause after Brawn last year it was clearly demonstrated that they matter indeed, in 90% of the cases.

[RS]

Hmm, maybe Sauber are going to "do a Brawn" this year.

I can imagine Kubica is not a happy boy after today....

[ArrowsFA1]

And please... don't start with the old "test times are not important" cliche, cause after Brawn last year it was clearly demonstrated that they do matter indeed, in 90% of the cases.
Test times are certainly important, it's just that we don't know the kind of fuel loads each team was running, and the kind of program they were working on. That makes it difficult to judge ultimate pace.

The real evidence comes at the first race :s mokin:

[I am evil Homer]

True but I think Pulidor is correct in some of his assumptions....Williams clearly ran light, were off the pace and car look unbalanced. STR had poor reliability.

Mac ran consistently in hands of Paffet but as said he's no Lewis or Jenson.

[DazzlaF1]

Test times are certainly important, it's just that we don't know the kind of fuel loads each team was running, and the kind of program they were working on. That makes it difficult to judge ultimate pace.

The real evidence comes at the first race :s mokin:

Absolutely, although if it is genuine pace, then Sauber have every reason to be a bit excited

[jens]

What makes me cautious about Ferrari, is that they looked like a frontrunner during the whole winter last year only to narrowly make it into Q3 in the opening races.

Sauber? Well, their pace certainly doesn't surprise me, explained in the launch thread (BMW-Sauber was pretty good in late-09 and current car has been developed with decent funds so far), but there is a slight unclear question in the air - considering that they have no sponsors, are they trying to "do a Prost" and attract some? Then again last year the same was thought about Brawn, but they were for real. So the real outcome remains to be seen.

But I think I'm going to wait until the end of that 3-day testing programme and some insider information/comments about the whole situation before giving a judgement on the general pecking order.

P.S. It looks like Schumacher is the Real Six-Tenths-Man. :D He has already improved the time just as much after taking over from Rosberg. :p :

[maximilian]

Absolutely, although if it is genuine pace, then Sauber have every reason to be a bit excited
And Renault must be horrified!! They might be as slow as the car looks! :)

[steveaki13]

Here is a short video with a bit of the new Mercedes in the hands of Michael.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bJ0I-5Ea-Q :)

[DazzlaF1]

And Renault must be horrified!! They might be as slow as the car looks! :)

I dont know, with the car looking "bland" they may have improvments to it already in the pipeline and also there is the possibility of Kubica tesing running the car on full tanks.

Like Arrows said, the first factor of where everyone is at will be Bahrain on March 14th

[Mia 01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4z2Vx6hniw

Take a look at the BMW Sauber.

It seems as it is the fastest car of them all.

Well done! Fast out of the box.

The MacLaren was late in the session once again painted in flow wiz.
Not a good sign, not at all!

[F1boat]

Great first test, makes me anxious for the next one. I'm happy for Felipe, Perdo and Michael, disappointed that Jenson wasn't driving today, though.

[jens]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4z2Vx6hniw

Take a look at the BMW Sauber.

It seems as it is the fastest car of them all.

Well done! Fast out of the box.


Hmmm... If the car is the real deal, I would slightly feel sorry for one thing! Trulli has said that he had negotiations with Sauber, but those ended pretty quickly after Peter asked for outlooks of bringing sponsorship. Shame about Jarno missing out a good car just because he isn't a paydriver. I suspect this is also why Heidfeld fell out of contention pretty quickly.

[truefan72]

so where can I see the testing online, I missed it today
PM me if it is an issue for the mods

[F1boat]

James Allen speculates, that the weak teams will drive with lesser fuel which will translate to -1,5 secs of pace. Check his blog, it is interesting.

[Pulidor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4z2Vx6hniw

Funny how at the end of the vid there's this random Spanish guy shouting "¡va roto!" (it's broken!) when the rattling engine of Massa's car passes by :D
(sigh)


Hmmm... If the car is the real deal, I would slightly feel sorry for one thing! Trulli has said that he had negotiations with Sauber, but those ended pretty quickly after Peter asked for outlooks of bringing sponsorship. Shame about Jarno missing out a good car just because he isn't a paydriver. I suspect this is also why Heidfeld fell out of contention pretty quickly.

Well...sorry there jens, but I can't agree with you here. AFAIK, DLR is not bringing any sponsor to the team (actually, Sauber is still sponsorless).Thus, he can't be considered a pay driver. He himself jokingly stated on several media sources (I heard him on two national radios) that he wishes he could be a pay driver to help the team economically, but that's not the case.
Besides that, IMO Jarno, Nick, and Pedro are all in the same league: not bad drivers, but not WC material, and on the top of that Pedro is the best car developer out of those 3. All in all I think it's not such a bad choice for Sauber...

[SGWilko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4z2Vx6hniw

Take a look at the BMW Sauber.

It seems as it is the fastest car of them all.

Well done! Fast out of the box.

The MacLaren was late in the session once again painted in flow wiz.
Not a good sign, not at all!

They used the paint ALL last year. I think it has become a part their development program.

[Sonic]

Poor old Robert Kubica. If the season pans out like the first test he's gonna have to get used to being lapped by his old car.

[gloomyDAY]

Is the engine cover on the McLaren attached to the rear wing?

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/144551.jpg

[Sonic]

No. But it sits very snug to the elements of the wing.

[Saint Devote]

Those experienced hands will know that today's first test was everyone just finding out if the car holds together and runs without bits "scraping" or overheating.

Paffett indicated that Mclaren ran full tanks and they were concentrating on the understeer effect from the new tyres - that has to be dialed out.

Rosberg rand in the AM while Schumi in the PM and temperature makes a big difference as well as fuel loads.

Same with Ferrari who ran Massa about 30 more laps than anyone else.

Nothing can be judged from this first day and probably the entire first test.

It is not accidental that Newey does not mind sitting out the first test. Adrian Newey is to design what Schumi is to racing driving - and Virgin may be concerned given his reply to a question during the Autosport show recently.

Only each team knows whether it is time to panic!!!

I think the Mercedes at the track is just a beautiful car - the best looking car so far I'd say - although I am expecting Red Bull to once again be the prettiest car by far. Sebastian "Mansell" Vettel could be the favorite this year to win - Adrian Newey remarked that Vettel reminds him a great deal of Nigel Mansell.

[F1boat]

I think that the first test still is important, because you see how the car handles and then in the second one you just push. I don't think that RBR are missing it because Newey is genius - I believe that they are simply late, because they really wanted the 2009 title and one could speculate that they knew that this were their best shot. I also want to remind that Newey has produced not only brilliant cars, but some abominations as well. This is not to say that he can not produce a Brawn GP-like dominator; undoubtedly he can. But he might produce a turkey as well. IMO it is way too early to say that his team is favorite, I won't be surprised if they flop.
But I do agree that it is very premature to judge from times. Honestly, I think that the Sauber and maybe the Williams ran light, while McLaren and Renault were likely heavy. Ferrari and MercGP were likely in between. However, I believe that Michael was very impressive. They said that he wouldn't adapt to the car and he is fast right from the start. Same about Felipe. Some people thought that the injury would prevent him from performing well, but for now the signs are good.
That's why - and because it is fun - the test is important.

[ArrowsFA1]

And Renault must be horrified!! They might be as slow as the car looks! :)

Poor old Robert Kubica. If the season pans out like the first test he's gonna have to get used to being lapped by his old car.
As RK says:
"I don't care about the times, the priority for today was different. Testing is not to be on top of the list. Last year the maximum fuel load was 60-70kg, so if someone was lighter the difference was about 30kg. This year you can find some cars running 30kg and some 150kg, which makes the gaps much bigger. It's important to be where we should be when it counts, in Bahrain."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81195

[Garry Walker]

I think the Mercedes at the track is just a beautiful car - the best looking car so far I'd say - although I am expecting Red Bull to once again be the prettiest car by far. Sebastian "Mansell" Vettel could be the favorite this year to win - Adrian Newey remarked that Vettel reminds him a great deal of Nigel Mansell.

Yeah, Mansell was an asshole too.

[Garry Walker]

Its quite amusing, not just here, but people judged the first days test purely on the lap times and have made assumptions on who is fastest. As the drivers have said, each team is running a different test program. Williams were running light as they usually do, Ferrari were testing first stints with 30 kg's of fuel and Mclaren were running heavy to tackle an understeer problem.

We can't read too much into anything yet. Teams want to be sure of reliability before showboating for the masses... :)

Whichever team is the fastest on a given day, the people will hype that team to be a winner and a really fast car. Has been so eversince I made The Mistake and started reading internet forums.

[Sonic]

Whichever team is the fastest on a given day, the people will hype that team to be a winner and a really fast car. Has been so eversince I made The Mistake and started reading internet forums.

Well I've only been here a year but rewind 12 months and most peeps were saying that Brawn were obviously on low tanks and looking for sponsors, we all know how that worked out. So it seems most here are happy to enjoy testing for what it is - random times on a stopwatch.

But that said - WOW, look at sauber go! Amazing! WDC and WCC in waiting. ;) :p :D (does that sound hysterical enough?)

[F1boat]

Yeah, Mansell was an asshole too.

Ahahahah!

[Saint Devote]

Well I've only been here a year but rewind 12 months and most peeps were saying that Brawn were obviously on low tanks and looking for sponsors, we all know how that worked out. So it seems most here are happy to enjoy testing for what it is - random times on a stopwatch.

But that said - WOW, look at sauber go! Amazing! WDC and WCC in waiting. ;) :p :D (does that sound hysterical enough?)

Wouldn't it be sheer irony - the Sauber is another Brawn and the MP4-25, the car that Lewis has had significant input, is a fundamentally understeery car when it is Lewis that thrives on switch oversteer while Jenson is an understeer driver by comparison!

And - Massa beats Alonso - Now tHAT would really shake the foundatons.

:D

[turismo6]

Kubica and Massa are both sporting black/bare carbon fibre helmets. Maybe its a new technology since Massa's accident of possibly one is more aerodynamic? :)


Could be weight saving. Bare carbon fibre is lighter then black paint!

[I am evil Homer]

They all have physios with them...driving an F1 car hurts your body!

[CNR]

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/172

This commentary is live and will show updates automatically.

[Dave B]

I've found another source, with times, here:
http://directo.thef1.es/tests/

It's in Spanish, but nothing that good ol' Google Translate can't fix

[f1indiablog]

Times after first hour of day 2 in Valencia:
1. Massa – Ferrari 1:11.722
2. Hamilton – McLaren 1:13.161
3. Kobayashi – Sauber 1:13.486
4. Rosberg – Mercedes – 1:14.036
5. Kubica – Renault – 1:14.714
6. Buemi – Toro Rosso – 1:14.928
7. Barrichello – Williams – 1:15.493

F1 Commision Tweaks 2010 rules: New point System proposed (http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/f1-commision-tweaks-2010-f1-rules-new.html)


1st – 25 points
2nd – 18 points
3rd – 15 points
4th – 12 points
5th – 10 points
6th – 8 points
7th – 6 points
8th – 4 points
9th – 2 points
10th – 1 point

How new point System will effect the Championship.????

http://www.f1indiablog.in
Dedicated to Indian F1 Fans
2011 Indian Grand Prix is coming!!!

[I am evil Homer]

Most the heavy runners seem to close...good to see Kamui setting good times too.

[gloomyDAY]

Yeah, Mansell was an asshole too.Yeah, and a winner.


Whichever team is the fastest on a given day, the people will hype that team to be a winner and a really fast car. Has been so eversince I made The Mistake and started reading internet forums.Solution: gtfo.

[gloomyDAY]

I hope Kubica's season goes better than testing.

http://web8.twitpic.com/img/62202947-73c77c93265f552523d26df073d8df30.4b684c9a-scaled.jpg

[F1boat]

Interesting test. So far, so good for Ferrari. It seems that Merc tried full tanks today. But tomorrow will be even more interesting with Jenson, Michael and Fernando.

[F1boat]

Yeah, and a winner.

Solution: gtfo.

Nige was a great overtaker, or at least a brave one, though.

[jens]

Well, second day of testing is over.

As much as I have read, Massa was doing lap-times as high as 1:16's at one time (presumably with a heavy tank), so 1:11,7 has been probably done on quite a light fuel load. Sauber well on the picture as well and McLaren was more impressive than yesterday. Rosberg was doing 1:16's with full tanks too. So at the top it's still open, but based on two days Renault (looked like Rob did a quali-sim at the end), Williams and especially STR may be behind others. Then again expecting them to fight it out for the top spots would have sounded too optimistic anyway.

One more thing - regarding Ferrari's performance vs others. Considering that their car is evolutionary and has had longer development time, I think other cars - which are more radical - may have a steeper development curve and more untapped potential, which may be why Ferrari has initially looked so impressive compared to the rest. Just my guesses.



AFAIK, DLR is not bringing any sponsor to the team (actually, Sauber is still sponsorless).Thus, he can't be considered a pay driver. He himself jokingly stated on several media sources (I heard him on two national radios) that he wishes he could be a pay driver to help the team economically, but that's not the case.


Isn't DLR bringing 1M $ from Universia with him?

[I am evil Homer]

Apparnetly PDLR has that yes but that's very little in the grand scheme.

[DazzlaF1]

Overall test times after day 2 at Valencia

1. Felipe Massa - Ferrari ........ 1m 11.722
2. Kamui Kobayashi - Sauber ........ + 0.334
3. Lewis Hamilton - McLaren ........ + 0.534
4. Robert Kubica - Renault ........ + 0.704
5. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes ........ + 1.177
6. Rubens Barrichello - Williams ........ + 1.655
7. Pedro de la Rosa - Sauber ........ + 2.032
8. Sebastien Buemi - Toro Rosso ........ + 2.101
9. Michael Schumacher - Mercedes ........ + 2.225
10. Gary Paffett - McLaren ........ + 3.124

Looks like Kubica did a much better job with the Renault today, maybe they were doing full tank runs yesterday

[52Paddy]

I tried googling this but to no avail. What is the 'flow wiz' livery relating to McLaren? :confused:

Hope Sauber keep up this form throughout February's tests :D

[AndyL]

Williams and especially STR may be behind others

Williams are dialling in a brand new engine of course, so they may not have that running at full power yet. It would be interesting to see some top speed figures.

[DexDexter]

Williams are dialling in a brand new engine of course, so they may not have that running at full power yet. It would be interesting to see some top speed figures.

Let's hope you're right, but I fear Cosworth will let them down. "Brand new engine"? Is it really? I thought it was based on a unit from 2006.

[DazzlaF1]

Let's hope you're right, but I fear Cosworth will let them down. "Brand new engine"? Is it really? I thought it was based on a unit from 2006.

I think i heard Cosworth say it is an upgraded version of the 2006 spec engine modified to meet the current engine reg's.

So it should still churn out some decent bhp and with the rev limit, the multiple blow ups we saw from it in 2006 should be less of a problem now. But i agree with AndyL, Williams I think are still getting used to the engine which you'd expect after using Toyota powerplants for the last 3 years.

[Saint Devote]

Not trying to be too quick to judge here but when the BBC asked Johannes Peil if Schumachers neck would stand a full race distance, he said "we'll have to wait and see"...

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there isn't a problem. :(

Edit: Seems like the media stirring things.. "No physical problems"..

Thank god for that. ;)

I'd just like to know how they know it is okay since Schumi has not driven a grand prix car since his Ferrari foray.

Mercedes signed him based on promises?

[Saint Devote]

It is the cars doing long runs that are important.

But anyway, I agree with Hamilton that we will only know everyone's true pace in March at Sakhir.

[nigelred5]

I'd just like to know how they know it is okay since Schumi has not driven a grand prix car since his Ferrari foray.

Mercedes signed him based on promises?

He HAS driven the 2007 car(last year in anticipation of filling Massa's seat), he has driven a GP2 car earlier this year, and he tested on karts extensively, wich can produce loads on the neck equal to or in excess of F1 cars. I'm certain he has had countless imaging series and medical evaluations since his motorcycle accident.

[Saint Devote]

He HAS driven the 2007 car(last year in anticipation of filling Massa's seat), he has driven a GP2 car earlier this year, and he tested on karts extensively, wich can produce loads on the neck equal to or in excess of F1 cars. I'm certain he has had countless imaging series and medical evaluations since his motorcycle accident.

We will know tomorrow :eek:

Looking at all the cars actually on track and not in the studio - that Mercedes is just the best looking car out there.

It LOOKS like a racing car!

If that car can go as well as it looks and Schumi is on top form - we may just find ourselves "back to the future"! :D

[DexDexter]

I'd just like to know how they know it is okay since Schumi has not driven a grand prix car since his Ferrari foray.

Mercedes signed him based on promises?

He had an injury, it takes time to heal but heal it will. Many drivers have recovered from far worse neck/back injuries. JJ Lehto, for example, broke many vertebra in his back and neck and came within a millimeter of dying/paralysing (1994 Benetton testing accident) but made a recovery and was able to race cars again and from what I've heard, Schumi's injury was like a little scratch compared to that.

[f1indiablog]

The full driver line-up today is:
Button,
Alonso,
Schumacher,
de la Rosa,
Petrov,
Alguersuari,
Hulkenberg

[F1boat]

The full driver line-up today is:
Button,
Alonso,
Schumacher,


Fantastic!!!

[I am evil Homer]

I'm interested to see how Petrov and Hulkenberg shaped up...I know how good the world champs are :D

[RS]

I believe that if we take the times over the whole week we'll get a pretty good idea of where the teams are, unless someone is seriously sandbagging.

It's certainly looking good for Ferrari and Sauber, not so good for Williams unfortunately.

Remember last year the Brawn was fast in testing then... so it does mean something!

The Ferrari has been at the top all 3 days, poor Kimi :(

[Ranger]

Unofficial times on Wednesday:

1. Alonso Ferrari 1:11.599 29 laps
2. de la Rosa Sauber 1:12.094 21 laps
3. Schumacher Mercedes 1:12.438 30 laps
4. Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1:12.576 37 laps
5. Button McLaren 1:13.498 +1.899 14 laps
6. Petrov Renault 1:14.009 +2.410 47 laps
7. Hulkenberg Williams 1:14.121 26 laps

[truefan72]

from the autosport live blog

12:56 And speaking of lunch, Michael Schumacher had some pasta at Ferrari's hospitality yesterday

Why is he having lunch with Ferrari?
Why can't he stick with the Mercedes crew and leave that past association behind. And that goes withthe red helmet thing as well.
If I was Mercedes GP, I'd be pissed. At this early stage he needs to show more loyalty/interest to the team that he is with, not having lunch over at his old team and cajoling with their staff. Don't like it one bit!

[I am evil Homer]

Leopards don't change their spots!

[I am evil Homer]

Over 51,000 people attended the tests. Wow.

[truefan72]

Over 51,000 people attended the tests. Wow.

yes and ticket prices were between 5-28 euros so good for the track indeed!

[cathedral]

bump

[I am evil Homer]

yes and ticket prices were between 5-28 euros so good for the track indeed!

Yep..better than the £100 Silverstone wants from me to stand. Think i'll sit...in front of the TV instead thanks!!

So Fernando, in his first test for the Scuderia, sets a 1:11.470, the second fastest car sets a 1:12.094.

Oh look, thats 6/10ths.

[F1boat]

from the autosport live blog

12:56 And speaking of lunch, Michael Schumacher had some pasta at Ferrari's hospitality yesterday

Why is he having lunch with Ferrari?
Why can't he stick with the Mercedes crew and leave that past association behind. And that goes withthe red helmet thing as well.
If I was Mercedes GP, I'd be pissed. At this early stage he needs to show more loyalty/interest to the team that he is with, not having lunch over at his old team and cajoling with their staff. Don't like it one bit!

I don't think that Mercedes cares, more important is that Michael drives fast.

[I am evil Homer]

On lap 2 of a massive 8-lap stint....must have been really heavily fuelled ;)

[AndyL]

Yep..better than the £100 Silverstone wants from me to stand. Think i'll sit...in front of the TV instead thanks!!

To be fair, testing at Silverstone is normally only £10, or at least it was when testing was still allowed during the English summer. 3 or 4 years ago it was free!

[jens]

Well, the first cycle of testing is over. In BBC Live feed Ross Brawn has already admitted that "Ferrari has looked most impressive and we are a bit behind." Button looked strangely uncompetitive today - still adapting to the car?

Based on what we have seen so far, it looks like Ferrari may be in front with Sauber/McLaren (at least the one with Hamilton behind the wheel) closely following. But it remains to be seen whether Ferrari chasers have more unlocked potential left in car development. Also can't wait to see that new RB6 in the next tests. :)

By the way, de la Rosa and Hülkenberg collided today. No surprise there - one hasn't raced for ages in F1 and the other has never done it. :p :

[maximilian]

By the way, de la Rosa and Hülkenberg collided today. No surprise there - one hasn't raced for ages in F1 and the other has never done it. :p :
A case of premature race fever, I guess.

Or maybe de la Rosa just didn't wanna get passed by a guy half his age! :D

[RS]

from the autosport live blog

12:56 And speaking of lunch, Michael Schumacher had some pasta at Ferrari's hospitality yesterday

Why is he having lunch with Ferrari?
Why can't he stick with the Mercedes crew and leave that past association behind. And that goes withthe red helmet thing as well.
If I was Mercedes GP, I'd be pissed. At this early stage he needs to show more loyalty/interest to the team that he is with, not having lunch over at his old team and cajoling with their staff. Don't like it one bit!

Maybe Michael just prefers Italian pasta to whatever Brawn were serving up? :)

[Sonic]

Well I've really enjoying seeing F1 cars in action again after a long (artificially long) winter break.

It would seem no one team has stolen a huge advantage on another like last year (yet) so I'm really hoping for an exciting and competitive season ahead.

[truefan72]

Maybe Michael just prefers Italian pasta to whatever Brawn were serving up? :)

could be. Italians do make some great food ;)

[truefan72]

found some videos of today ( and other days)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhh0vBMIqg8&feature=channel

[truefan72]

part 2 of Valencia day 3, great stuff, good quality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYV_h7SI_Pg&feature=channel

[Saint Devote]

from the autosport live blog

12:56 And speaking of lunch, Michael Schumacher had some pasta at Ferrari's hospitality yesterday

Why is he having lunch with Ferrari?
Why can't he stick with the Mercedes crew and leave that past association behind. And that goes withthe red helmet thing as well.
If I was Mercedes GP, I'd be pissed. At this early stage he needs to show more loyalty/interest to the team that he is with, not having lunch over at his old team and cajoling with their staff. Don't like it one bit!

Because Schumi does not have a self-esteem problem and when you have been with a team and been so successful, one remain friends.

There WAS a time when drivers of different teams would during practice and testing go and sit with other teams - Lauda and Hunt for example.

Teams would help each other if needed - such as changing and engine [imagine THAT!!!] and when every single thing a driver or team did was not over analyzed.

The best comment before Interlagos in 2009 was that of Anthony Hamilton - lets remember he said, its all good fun.

Schumacher owes Mercedes nothing. He is paid to race and will do his best.

Thats why I miss Kimi Raikkonen - that he will not be racing in f1 in 2010 is a great pity.

But he never pretended that this was some sort of "team sport". Its not. It is a sport of teams amd drivers who are individuals - and no ampunt of the artificial "strategy" nonsense that has been part of racing swops the reality for the pretense. He did his thing and went home.

He never insulted or criticized another driver or team, or even his own when someone like Alonso would have been blabbering and bleatiing like a little spoilt baby.

And is Kimi noticed for his achievements? No. There is always whining that somehow he did not "lead" and pull the dysfunctional Ferrari team togethere - well BOO-HOO!

So let Schumi have lunch with friends - he is intelligent and understands that being collegiate has nothing to do with not getting his job done, namely - beating Ferrari and all the others.

[Saint Devote]

I hope Schumi does NOT wear that awful and very outdated RED helmet design.

The basic black he wore today - the new Schuberth helmet - looked far more suitable than the red in the W01.

I think even at this early stage he is doing his usual holding back and on different laps testing the quick ability in sections of the track.

Remember - Schumi was always able to literally change and adapt each lap. His amazing ability to bamboozle and outwit the opposition was well known.

I do advance that Schumi is sandbagging as usual - underestimating him will be the biggest mistake for anyone.

I see Petrov and Button - did the lowest amount of laps, with Massa almost three times their quantity and most other people 20 to 40 laps more.

Nice to see all the cars available out there, but the next test will begin the real work and maybe we will be able to guage tthis season's pecking order better.

Really excited about the beautiful Virgin-Cosworth [it looks like a Red Bull car] and this season's RB06. Until the car runs on track this first test has essentially been an "installation" test.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't think Schumi should change his helmet design. Helmets are supposed to be a personal aspect of each driver and I don't like it when a driver changes his helmet to suit the corporate image of his new team (Button in 2009, Kubica in 2010 and Alonso in 2007 for example).

I can't believe that Schumi having lunch can be an issue. Does it really matter who, what and where he does for lunch?

[christophulus]

I don't think Schumi should change his helmet design. Helmets are supposed to be a personal aspect of each driver and I don't like it when a driver changes his helmet to suit the corporate image of his new team.

Agreed, they should keep the same helmet design. I thought racing drivers were a superstitious bunch anyway?

[SGWilko]

Do abit of corporate networking or insist that its paramount for your company to have a presence in the paddock club at Silverstone this year.. ;)

If you sit on the banking you'll be labelled as a gormless geek with no idea whats going on. :p

And whatever you do, dont press your face up against the fence, or you instantly become a stereotype.....

[SGWilko]

So Fernando, in his first test for the Scuderia, sets a 1:11.470, the second fastest car sets a 1:12.094.

Oh look, thats 6/10ths.

Second fastest was Massa wasn't it? Was he 6/10ths quicker than his team mate who has not driven since he got sprung from his drive in Hungary last year???

[SGWilko]

English summer.

Whats that???????

[SGWilko]

I don't think that comment was even worthy of a response, he'll only discredit the irony and add your name to his signature.

Don't tell him my real name is Terry Feckwit then, will you????

[SGWilko]

On lap 2 of a massive 8-lap stint....must have been really heavily fuelled ;)

Ferrari's pre-occupation at this early stage in testing is Massa's speed and reactions compared to his team mate. I can well imagine they were running the same fuel loads over the three days to run a suitable comparison.

My understanding is that McLaren and Mercedes have been concentrating on longer runs, dialling the cars in to heavy fuel configurations how they will effectively run two thirds of each race this year.

This will determine the approximate number of tyre stops required.

Still, lets see if Mr 6/10ths lives up to his self styled monica.

[ArrowsFA1]

Button looked strangely uncompetitive today - still adapting to the car?
:up:


"We have done a lot of work today and it has been really useful. In a way it would have been nice to get some more testing done, set-up work, but this test was always to get used to the environment inside the cockpit, get used to working with the team and to run through all the checks that you always do at the first test."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81251

[f1indiablog]

Mercedes Confirm Nick Heidfeld as Reserve & test driver for 2010 (http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/mercedes-confirm-nick-heidfeld-as.html)


Nick Heidfled is "very pleased" to join Mercedes GP F1 team:
“I am very pleased to be joining the MERCEDES GP PETRONAS Formula One Team. It’s the team which has attracted the most interest in the close season, not only because of the comeback of Michael Schumacher, but also because this season sees the return of the Silver Arrows cars as a Mercedes-Benz works team for the first time in over fifty years. Whilst I would of course have preferred a seat as an active driver, I am really proud to be part of the new Silver Arrows team. I have seen how committed everyone at the team is and I feel the same. I will be doing my very best to support Michael and Nico this year.”
http://bit.ly/cCmRr2

[SGWilko]

Mercedes Confirm Nick Heidfeld as Reserve & test driver for 2010 (http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/mercedes-confirm-nick-heidfeld-as.html)


Nick Heidfled is "very pleased" to join Mercedes GP F1 team:
“I am very pleased to be joining the MERCEDES GP PETRONAS Formula One Team. It’s the team which has attracted the most interest in the close season, not only because of the comeback of Michael Schumacher, but also because this season sees the return of the Silver Arrows cars as a Mercedes-Benz works team for the first time in over fifty years. Whilst I would of course have preferred a seat as an active driver, I am really proud to be part of the new Silver Arrows team. I have seen how committed everyone at the team is and I feel the same. I will be doing my very best to support Michael and Nico this year.”
http://bit.ly/cCmRr2

So, all that talk of Mercedes not being especially bothered about being an all German piloted team.....

Hmmmmmm

[Dave B]

Whats that???????
The English summer? This year it's scheduled for three days in July.

[christophulus]

The English summer? This year it's scheduled for three days in July.

I guess that isn't going to be the 9/10/11 July then? :p

[f1indiablog]

So we will seeing All British Versus All German team.....
Cool

Eagerly waiting for the season to start

[SGWilko]

So we will seeing All British Versus All German team.....
Cool

Eagerly waiting for the season to start

Beach towels at dawn.....

Don't tell him my real name is Terry Feckwit then, will you????

No need, you'd already made that abundantly clear.

[SGWilko]

No need, you'd already made that abundantly clear.

Dang, you spotted it. you is clevererer that wot I fort.

I don't think that comment was even worthy of a response

Because it's true.

[SGWilko]

Because it's true.

Surely, you would need to compare times against like for like machinery, wouldn't you? Because it is not the same otherwise, is it? Because it is different, isn't it?

Don't want to be comparing ioan's apples with his plums now, do you......

[SGWilko]

Over the three days of testing from Valencia, the ferrari pilots posted the following fastest times;

Massa - 1:11.722
Alonso - 1:11.470

Assuming they both drove the F10 to the same spec, same engine blah blah blah, I make that difference to be.......

Drum roll, if you please

..........0.252. So, shall we be generous and say 2.6/10ths?

Ba dum, tish.

I thank you.

[jens]

Schumacher is the real 0,6 secs man. When he took over from Rosberg on Monday, he improved the time just by that much. Alonso is just a pretender. :p :

[jens]

Well, I can certainly see the Alonso "car-development" myths coming back this season if Ferrari is a top car, much like they were created back in 2007 with McLaren. The fact that Ferrari's F10 was topping timesheets already before Alonso had ever sat in the car has nothing to do with it, of course. :p :

[wedge]

Based on what we have seen so far, it looks like Ferrari may be in front with Sauber/McLaren (at least the one with Hamilton behind the wheel) closely following. But it remains to be seen whether Ferrari chasers have more unlocked potential left in car development. Also can't wait to see that new RB6 in the next tests. :)


Count out Sauber. They've been doing short runs and searching for sponsors trick.

[jens]

Count out Sauber. They've been doing short runs and searching for sponsors trick.

The same was said about Brawn last year and secondly I don't see a reason, why BMW-Sauber couldn't have developed a good car for this season. They may not be good enough to fight it out for outright wins, but I think they are generally quite competitive.

[SGWilko]

Theres an easy answer to that my boy. Felipe was driving the car that Alonso had originally made 6/10ths quicker.. :p

I hadn't thunk of that...... ;-)

[SGWilko]

Well, I can certainly see the Alonso "car-development" myths coming back this season if Ferrari is a top car, much like they were created back in 2007 with McLaren. The fact that Ferrari's F10 was topping timesheets already before Alonso had ever sat in the car has nothing to do with it, of course. :p :

Apparently Onslow was developing the car last year while racing for Renault, clever little bunny wot he is....

[I am evil Homer]

The same was said about Brawn last year and secondly I don't see a reason, why BMW-Sauber couldn't have developed a good car for this season. They may not be good enough to fight it out for outright wins, but I think they are generally quite competitive.

Was it? Because Honda bankrolled the entire season so they never needed the money.

I think the Sauber times are 'false' in that they won't be scrapping for wins but points finishes look like a good potential.

[CaptainRaiden]

So Fernando, in his first test for the Scuderia, sets a 1:11.470, the second fastest car sets a 1:12.094.

Oh look, thats 6/10ths.

Oh yes!! The same 6 tenths that he forgot at Mclaren when he went back to Renault. Also, his 6 tenths seem to have gobsmackingly amazing telepathic power, helped Ferrari throw all money and resources into this car WHILE Fernando was driving for Renault.

I'm a believer!!! :eek:

[wedge]

The same was said about Brawn last year and secondly I don't see a reason, why BMW-Sauber couldn't have developed a good car for this season. They may not be good enough to fight it out for outright wins, but I think they are generally quite competitive.

Brawn was super consistant with decent amount of laps last year http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/03/get-your-money-on-brawn-for-melbourne-win/

Sauber have shown their pace on short 10 lap runs


http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/02/decoding-a-frantic-day-of-formula-1-action-in-valencia/

His (PDLR) long runs were varied, the fastest in the middle of the day was a ten lap run in which his times compared with the Ferrari, but I would guess that he was running less fuel for that run.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sarahholt/2010/02/ferrari_and_mclaren_off_to_a_f.html

The Swiss-based team are certainly showing signs of competitiveness but their times are tempered by the fact that they were not set during longer runs on the track, which could mean they had less fuel on board.

[Mia 01]

BMW Sauber is one of the three best cars!

I trust next time Lewis makes a comment about his input in the car, you the other tifosi massive won't be quite as quick to judge on this basis. We all live happily ever after. :)

Since you are an expert in dredging through my old posts (and failing to find anything, but we'll airbrush that out for now) when have I being quick to judge on that before?

I have no doubt that Lewis Hamilton is capable of driving development forward, either through feedback, technical input, charisma or sheer bloody willpower.

It is sad that the majority of his fans can't bring themselves to do the same towards his rivals, but that isn't his fault either.

Lewis has faults, far more than his fans can bear to accept, but an inability to bring pace to a car isn't one of them.

Much the same with Fernando.

[Dave B]

Just in case any part of that was aimed at me, I'll repeat what I've said so many times before: I respect Alonso's ability as a driver, and as one of the top men in the sport right now. You don't win two championships by accident.

I just don't want him to blummin' well win anything else - ever!

Not supporting somebody doesn't automatically mean not respecting their achievements.

[gloomyDAY]

I personally think it'll be a Ferrari, Mclaren, and Red Bull fight and I'm looking forward to another great season, and hopefully for me another German WDC. :up:

[DazzlaF1]

OVERALL TIMES FROM THE 3 DAYS (not including Paffett)

1. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari ................ 1m 11.470
2. Felipe Massa - Ferrari ................ +0.252
3. Kamui Kobayashi - Sauber Ferrari ................ +0.586
4. Pedro de la Rosa - Sauber Ferrari ................ +0.624
5. Lewis Hamilton - McLaren Mercedes ................ +0.786
6. Robert Kubica - Renault ................ +0.956
7. Michael Schumacher - Mercedes ................ +0.968
8. Jaime Alguersuari - Toro Rosso Ferrari ................ +1.106
9. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes ................ +1.429
10. Jenson Button - McLaren Mercedes ................ +1.451
11. Vitaly Petrov - Renault ................ +1.627
12. Rubens Barrichello - Williams Cosworth ................ +1.907
13. Niko Hulkenberg - Williams Cosworth ................ +2.199
14. Sebastien Buemi - Toro Rosso Ferrari ................ +2.353

[52Paddy]

Whether or not this is a decent preview of what to expect from each team this season, it might lead us closer to knowing who's better of the team-mates. I won't stir more s**t by commenting on Ferrari but certainly, there's a considerable difference in the times between Hamilton/Button, Kubica/Petrov and Alguersuari/Buemi. Would it be wise to suggest that these pairs of drivers were running wildly different strategies (not counting setups, which will obviously be different to varying extents). I'm not sure what to read into Renault or Toro Rosso's pairing just yet. But, with McLaren, Hamilton and Button's driving style are so contrasting that I think it will take Button quite a few races before he feels entirely comfortable with his new car and expect Hamilton to have the upper hand on him for that reason. Hopefully, in the second half of the year, Jenson will take the reigns if he fits in nicely to the team.

[Saint Devote]

Another factor testing cannot show is the engine weights. With the engine rules as they are, teams could adjust for fuel but this season it has changed.

The Ferrari is around 15kgs heavier than the Renault while the Mercedes is around 8kgs or so.

It noticeable how sensitive Mclaren are to equality - running Paffet on the first day.

Without a double diffuser Red Bull were quickest in 2009 and the have the lightest engine. As we see everyone so far had essentially copied the idea of Adrian Newey.

I am sure all the top teams are perhaps a little uneasy over what RB will unveil next week.

And with a driver like Sebastian "Mansell" in the seat it is not out of the question that the real shock awaits in Jerez.

[Saint Devote]

Lets face it, the best driver out there is Schumi.

He is that way because he is the only driver that has proven ability to adapt and change during a race.

No matter what Mercedes say about their speed after the Valencia test it is a short term issue.

The real issue is the race and the strategy. Schumi-Brawn won many races and some of them just phenomenal where he did NOT have the quickest car.

Ross Brawn said a while ago that he is looking forward to the season with the new strategies that will have to be used. EVERYONE should worry,

We will see if any of the drivers today are able to match the great German driver. If any do, they are young enough to become heir apparent as motor racing's benchmark when Schumi FINALLY retires.

I was sorry to see Schumacher retire in 2006, but he left us with that amazing pass on Kimi at Interlagos.

I am delighted that he has returned because I now see that this is a seriously taken step by him and he does nothing by half-measure.

When a driver like Schumi has one of his days and just stamps his authority on the grand prix, it is a time when I'd say loyalties to any driver or team goes bythe wayside for those who are in love with motor racing - and we just enjoy watching the heroic sublime ability that we are lucky to be witnessing.

Those of us who saw Schumi through the years ought to reflect how fortunate we were. I think the battles of the 1980's and Schumacher is something no future genaration will again witness. Similar to the days of the Great Mercedes and terrifying circuits.

[555-04Q2]

Massa and Alonso are way out there. Lets hope the others will be closer come race time.

[555-04Q2]

from the autosport live blog

12:56 And speaking of lunch, Michael Schumacher had some pasta at Ferrari's hospitality yesterday

Why is he having lunch with Ferrari?
Why can't he stick with the Mercedes crew and leave that past association behind. And that goes withthe red helmet thing as well.
If I was Mercedes GP, I'd be pissed. At this early stage he needs to show more loyalty/interest to the team that he is with, not having lunch over at his old team and cajoling with their staff. Don't like it one bit!

People can be so pathetic at times. He has a lot of friends over at Ferrari. What does he do, just ignore them cause he wears different overalls now? That would be rude, wouldnt it? I dont see how having lunch with his friends at Ferrari is a problem. Cant he socialize?

[F1boat]

St. Devote, the cool thing is that all top teams look formidable - at least on paper. Merc has the best combo ever, Michael and Ross, RBR has Newey and while I don't rate Vettel that much, with a car made by Newey, sometimes simply a good driver is enough. But Ferrari and McLaren are the all-time best in this sport and they have brilliant drivers as well.

[DexDexter]

People can be so pathetic at times. He has a lot of friends over at Ferrari. What does he do, just ignore them cause he wears different overalls now? That would be rude, wouldnt it? I dont see how having lunch with his friends at Ferrari is a problem. Cant he socialize?

And Ferrari do have better food than Mercedes, that's 100% certain. :D

[F1boat]

It seems that Autosport hates Michael. The interview at the presentation of Mercedes with Michael was pathetic.

[f1indiablog]

After the launch of Virgin VR01 (http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/virgin-cosworth-vr-01-launch-first.html) 2 days back,car completed its maiden run today at Silverstone track.

Timo Glock (http://www.f1indiablog.in/2009/12/virgin-racing-f1-team-launched.html) was the first to drive the new VR01: The1st among the new teams (http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/01/virgin-racing-to-launch-car-online.html) to launch their car.

The car has been designed without any wind tunnel testing and this test will give the team a chance to see whether the car is behaving the same way as tested ib computer simulations.

The team will continue testing tomorrow at Stowe circuit where Lucas Di Grassi will drive the car for the first time.

[Sonic]

Never understood the point of running at stowe - never get higher than 4th/5th gear

Anyway - good to see the new boys running.

[Sonic]

Looks like the weather might not play ball for the next test;

...early weather forecasts for Jerez suggest that rain could blight some, if not all of the four day test - which could severely limit useful track time

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81289

Could be a right pain for Red Bull, Force India & Virgin.

[Sonic]

Very rational post Henners, as you say the top three (probably 4 once RBR hits the track are all much for muchness when fuel loads, and in McLarens case especially, lack of real 2010 parts is taken into account. Behind them we seem to have a tight fight between Renault, saube and Williams for best of the rest - gonna be a GREAT season!

[SGWilko]

Its interesting because alot of people are drawing the conclusion that Mclaren and Ferrari are alot closer than the lap times suggest. Lewis recorded a 1m12.256 on a run of 24 laps. He recorded this time 3 or 4 laps into this stint and was only 0.5 secs off Massa's fastest lap of the test. Massa was on a 12 lap stint which suggests he was alot lighter than the Mclaren. Its still far too early to tell and we haven't seen the Red Bulls as yet, but when the times are compared with how many laps were completed, then the Ferrari does not seem too far ahead in terms of raw pace. Alonso did a couple of short runs beating Massa's time and then reverted to long stints where the times were comparable to the Mclarens and the Mercedes teams.

I think theres alot of sandbagging going on between the teams and Mclaren and Mercedes in particular have been careful not to show their true hand IMO. The true glimpse of what to expect will be in Jerez when the likes of Red Bull are on track after much anticipation. :)

Indeed Henners me ole mucker....


Ferrari were on top throughout the three days in Valencia, largely due to running lower fuel loads the their main opposition, McLaren and Mercedes.

Close analysis of the lap times shows that Alonso was slightly faster than Massa at this first test, based on estimated, fuel corrected times. Alonso ran mainly 2009 levels of fuel, whereas Massa also spent a little time running the heavier 2010 fuel loads. Massa had two days to Alonso’s one. Both drivers reported a positive feeling with the car and it seems responsive to changes. It also seems to look after its tyres quite well.

Although Ferrari had faster lap times, McLaren ran more fuel all week and the feeling is that the McLaren may be a shade faster at this point.

The important thing for Ferrari is...


All our wind tunnel and simulation numbers matched up with the ones from the track. We are fast, even if it’s too early to say how fast compared to the others

[F1boat]

I heard that rainstorms can ruin the tests at Jerez.

[f1indiablog]

I heard that rainstorms can ruin the tests at Jerez.


If there is a large volume of rain then it shall be a big blow for teams who had decided to opt out of the first test Valencia which was held recently.

[f1indiablog]

According to a report published in Telegraph, (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/7157613/Companies-House-threatens-to-dissolve-Vijay-Mallyas-Force-India-team.html)Companies House has threaten to dissolve Vijay Mallya's Force India team.

http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/force-india-f1-team-in-troublecompanies.html

[F1boat]

If there is a large volume of rain then it shall be a big blow for teams who had decided to opt out of the first test Valencia which was held recently.

It may spice things, however so, let the rain hit teh track :)

[wedge]

It may spice things, however so, let the rain hit teh track :)

It will be pointless, you learn nothing about the car in the wet.

[SGWilko]

It will be pointless, you learn nothing about the car in the wet.

You learn how it behaves in the wet when its wet.

[Sonic]

You learn how it behaves in the wet when its wet.

Indeed. A wet test can be very useful.

[truefan72]

You learn how it behaves in the wet when its wet.

profound words indeed.

With a high probability that there will be 1 or 2 wet races, testing in the wet might prove useful.

Me personally, I don't care much for wet races, and feel that F1 should structure the calendar around minimizing that possibility. But It will continue and thus testing for it seems worthwhile.

[Big Ben]

Sandbagging? So I guess some teams are so sure of their pace before they even tested the car that they have absolutely no interest in seeing how fast it can actually go and instead they'd rather see how the car is actually going to behave if for no reason it will get fat or get full of sand? That makes sense actually if we consider that the first race is in Bahrain.

I think that´s why Rosberg IRC was down 1.5 cm at the end of the day... the sand started spreading under his a$$ and filling the crack.

[Triumph]

It would be nice to see a good battle between Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso if the Ferrari and McLaren turn out to be well matched.

I wouldn't be surprised to see reliability problems playing their part with Ferrari's season, more so than with the McLaren.

:)

[Valve Bounce]

It will be pointless, you learn nothing about the car in the wet.

So true. Pity you did not expand your post to point out your reasons, although I totally agree with your view.

The car's behavior in the wet depends very much on the surface of the track, cross falls, drainage, ambient temperatures, and basically how much water there is on the track and of course, the tyres being used.

The only advantage I can see is how different tyre patterns will affect traction, but we aren't going to get to test that, are we.

So basically, yeah! it is pointless to test in the wet.

[Saint Devote]

It seems that Autosport hates Michael. The interview at the presentation of Mercedes with Michael was pathetic.

I disagree that the magazine "hates" him.

A recent article by Mark Hughes was excellent. It explains Schumi technically and does not gloss over his "faultline" but at the same time mentions it within context of his great ability and achievements.

They think they have always been fair and truthful.

[Saint Devote]

It would be nice to see a good battle between Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso if the Ferrari and McLaren turn out to be well matched.

I wouldn't be surprised to see reliability problems playing their part with Ferrari's season, more so than with the McLaren.

:)

Hamilton and Alonso have been there and done that. There would be nothing special in that. In fact this season a Mclaren versus Ferrari [yawn] battle would be disappointing.

The focus which is going to suck all the proverbial air out of the room is Michael Schumacher versus the rest.

Until proven otherwise Schumi and Brawn during a race have to be a concern to everyone - you see, unlike the rest of the grid, Schumi does NOT have to have the quickest car to win.

[f1indiablog]

This is off the thread..

We here in South Asia are fed up of the Star Sports F1 coverage..
Can any1 suggest the alternative?

[truefan72]

Until proven otherwise Schumi and Brawn during a race have to be a concern to everyone - you see, unlike the rest of the grid, Schumi does NOT have to have the quickest car to win.

he usually does,
funny enough the majority of his victories came when he had not just the quickest car, but a car that was ahead of all others by a country mile.

If by quickest car you mean the Brawn advantage over others at year's beginning then that is a place he is well accustomed to being. If by quickest you mean like the RB5 being slightly quicker than the competition but yet still somewhat of parity in the field, then I'm guessing that MSC will share the spoils with the likes of Vettel, Weber, Hamilton, Alonso, Massa, Button, probably Rosberg, and potentially a Sauber or Force India.

Its a different world for MSC now and he will have to perform without having an absolute dominant car...and we all know how that went in 2005/2006. I hope he is very competitive and outside of me wanting to see Hamilton win the WDC, I hope this year produces multiple winners and every race potentially being won by any given driver...or at least a field of 8-10 drivers

[F1boat]

truefan, in 2006 Michael drove very well. He really lost the championship, but he was very close to Alonso, way closer than Raikkonen in 2005 for example. Also for me is very funny when they say that Ferrari enjoyed domination between 2000 -2004. Actually 2002 and 2004 were very dominant, 2000 and 2003 were extremely close and 2001 between the two extremes. Michael drove very well in all these seasons and in previous ones as well, like 1998 for example and 1997 - one accident can not make me forget Monte Carlo for example.
Even in 2005, which was likely the worst season in Michael's career, he finished third in the championship, in front of Montoya (with a McLaren) and Fisichella (in the WCC winner Renault).
So to try to devalue Michael's success for me is immature.

[F1boat]

I disagree that the magazine "hates" him.

A recent article by Mark Hughes was excellent. It explains Schumi technically and does not gloss over his "faultline" but at the same time mentions it within context of his great ability and achievements.

They think they have always been fair and truthful.

Then maybe only Noble. He seems to have the tact of an elephant in a museum for rare Chinese porcelain. His interviews with Lewis and Jenson were are awful as the one with Michael.

I would not embarrass you by reposting some of your comments from early 2007.

Please do.

Otherwise it's just an empty threat, a gutless thing to say.

[SGWilko]

Please do.

Otherwise it's just an empty threat, a gutless thing to say.

Oh, you mean gutless, as in posting foul mouthed insulting messages by PM to folk who dare to have a different opinion?

[Zico]

JA- Ferrari were running lower fuel than McLaren all week and the "feeling" is that McLaren are maybe faster. Just sums up how unpredictable the order is right now.

"Close analysis of the lap times shows that Alonso was slightly faster than Massa at this first test, based on estimated, fuel corrected times. Alonso ran mainly 2009 levels of fuel, whereas Massa also spent a little time running the heavier 2010 fuel loads. Massa had two days to Alonso’s one. Both drivers reported a positive feeling with the car and it seems responsive to changes. It also seems to look after its tyres quite well.

Although Ferrari had faster lap times, McLaren ran more fuel all week and the feeling is that the McLaren may be a shade faster at this point."

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/02/ferrari-happy-that-the-new-car-is-performing-as-expected/

Some say that the 1st pre-season test can give a true indication of a cars pace and cite last years times by Brawn as an example but the new rules for this season means we have a far greater difference in teams testing programs due to the greater variation of fuel loads, too great imo to glean any meaningful indication of true pace.

[wedge]

I disagree that the magazine "hates" him.

A recent article by Mark Hughes was excellent. It explains Schumi technically and does not gloss over his "faultline" but at the same time mentions it within context of his great ability and achievements.

They think they have always been fair and truthful.

Dear God no.

Mark Hughes did an interview with Anthony Davidson a year or so ago and hyped him (he needs all the help he can get) to a great degree into a better driver than he really was. As 'authoritative' and technically minded Mark Hughes is he had the temerity to bring up and applaud the Monza test session where Ant posted a quicker time than Schumi without taking into account of variables like fuel weights.

The same Hughes who thought nothing of Vettel and has now suddenly jumped on the 'Vettel is gifted/special' bandwagon.


You learn how it behaves in the wet when its wet.

The track conditions are constantly changing. You learn nothing about the car because the lap times will be less consistant, constantly having to adapt to the conditions via driving style.

Oh, you mean gutless, as in posting foul mouthed insulting messages by PM to folk who dare to have a different opinion?

No, gutless as is never admits when proven wrong and never backs up empty words.

Oh, and a different opinion isn't just a different opinion when it's an outright lie. when it's that, then insults are deserved.

[DexDexter]

Oh, you mean gutless, as in posting foul mouthed insulting messages by PM to folk who dare to have a different opinion?

Somebody's got the take up the mantle of you know who. :rolleyes:


No, gutless as is never admits when proven wrong and never backs up empty words.

Oh, and a different opinion isn't just a different opinion when it's an outright lie. when it's that, then insults are deserved.

Where did you learn that?

[SGWilko]

Where did you learn that?

I'm keen to see the reply to this one. No doubt a moron Brit at Silverstone told him.....

Where did you learn that?


I'm keen to see the reply to this one. No doubt a moron Brit at Silverstone told him.....

No, it wasn't, it was from somebody who didn't suffer fools or liars.

[Hawkmoon]

I like how everyone assumes that because a car did a 10 lap stint that it only had 10 laps worth of fuel onboard. What's to say the car didn't have 30 laps worth of fuel but only did 10 laps before coming into the pits to make a change?

This isn't qualifying, teams don't have to put the minimum amount of fuel in to extract the best lap time. They put in a fuel load to suit whatever it is that they're doing at any given moment.

We have no idea how many laps of fuel were in any car when a lap time was set. Nor does James Allen.

[DazzlaF1]

I like how everyone assumes that because a car did a 10 lap stint that it only had 10 laps worth of fuel onboard. What's to say the car didn't have 30 laps worth of fuel but only did 10 laps before coming into the pits to make a change?

This isn't qualifying, teams don't have to put the minimum amount of fuel in to extract the best lap time. They put in a fuel load to suit whatever it is that they're doing at any given moment.

We have no idea how many laps of fuel were in any car when a lap time was set. Nor does James Allen.

James Allen is only doing what every other journalist does hyping up the test times to suggest who will be the frontrunenrs, plus it seels papers/magazines or gets them attention.

Its normal for them to ignore the obvious circumstances behind each team's plans during testing and just assume that because Ferrari set the fastest times in Valencia, that means they've "sounded out a warning to the rest of the competition" whereas everyone who understands what goes on during testing knows that the times are irrelevant and the first true yardstick of where everyone stands will be in Bahrain on March 14th

[Saint Devote]

Dear God no.

Mark Hughes did an interview with Anthony Davidson a year or so ago and hyped him (he needs all the help he can get) to a great degree into a better driver than he really was. As 'authoritative' and technically minded Mark Hughes is he had the temerity to bring up and applaud the Monza test session where Ant posted a quicker time than Schumi without taking into account of variables like fuel weights.

The same Hughes who thought nothing of Vettel and has now suddenly jumped on the 'Vettel is gifted/special' bandwagon.



The track conditions are constantly changing. You learn nothing about the car because the lap times will be less consistant, constantly having to adapt to the conditions via driving style.

The point was Autosport "hating" Schumi. They do not.

I do agree that Mark Hughes hypes drivers. I have never seen him cheer on a driver like he does Hamilton. His Italian Grand Prix report was effectively a Lewis puff-piece. I had to wonder if we watched the same race!

Lewis throwing it into the barrier at Mirabeau and then at the first Lesmo in 2009 was downplayed in the former case and then in the latter, excused as if crashing on the last lap while in a podium place, 3rd, is something teams dream about!

And remember this was not just any other driver, but the one that Hughes amongst others had already claimed to be the "next Schumacher". Such mistakes are not excuseable.

[Saint Devote]

Then maybe only Noble. He seems to have the tact of an elephant in a museum for rare Chinese porcelain. His interviews with Lewis and Jenson were are awful as the one with Michael.

:D

The best writer at Autosport I think is Bradley Lord. His page each week is excellent. He ought to be considered for reporting on the grands prix.

He reminds me of the great Pete Lyons' [the American Journalist] GP reports of my youth during the 1974 - 1981 [I don't remember when Lyons left exactly]. I did contact him and urged him to write a book of his favorite reports - wish that he would.

[Saint Devote]

James Allen is only doing what every other journalist does hyping up the test times to suggest who will be the frontrunenrs, plus it seels papers/magazines or gets them attention.

Its normal for them to ignore the obvious circumstances behind each team's plans during testing and just assume that because Ferrari set the fastest times in Valencia, that means they've "sounded out a warning to the rest of the competition" whereas everyone who understands what goes on during testing knows that the times are irrelevant and the first true yardstick of where everyone stands will be in Bahrain on March 14th

Your comment concurs with that of Lewis - he said that at Valencia.

Although I think people like Ross Brawn [and Schumi] and Martin Witmarsh and the uber-experienced drivers like Rubens have a pretty shrewd idea as to where everyone stands but will keep that to themselves no doubt :D

[Saint Devote]

I remember the sunny warm days at another circuit which I always loved, Paul Ricard, where Alfa Romeo would be quickest during testing and then come the start of the season they would be nowhere.

Now THAT is disappointing!!!

[wedge]

I like how everyone assumes that because a car did a 10 lap stint that it only had 10 laps worth of fuel onboard. What's to say the car didn't have 30 laps worth of fuel but only did 10 laps before coming into the pits to make a change?

This isn't qualifying, teams don't have to put the minimum amount of fuel in to extract the best lap time. They put in a fuel load to suit whatever it is that they're doing at any given moment.

We have no idea how many laps of fuel were in any car when a lap time was set. Nor does James Allen.

What's the point of doing a 10 lap stint? Are most stints during a race 10 laps long?

I've seen Piquet Jr do 10 lap stints round Silverstone as if it was qualy

[Valve Bounce]

Dear God no.

Mark Hughes did an interview with Anthony Davidson a year or so ago and hyped him (he needs all the help he can get) to a great degree into a better driver than he really was. As 'authoritative' and technically minded Mark Hughes is he had the temerity to bring up and applaud the Monza test session where Ant posted a quicker time than Schumi without taking into account of variables like fuel weights.

.

Well Buddy!! this is not exactly true. Ant's time, if I remember correctly was within .2 seconds of SchM's all time record at Monza, and some of us thought that was one helluva achievement for ant in the ant; the fuel loads, and whatever variables and conditions would not have swayed our view that it was a great effort.

Of course, I have the cap that he wore afterward as a birthday gift, and I treasure it.

[Hawkmoon]

What's the point of doing a 10 lap stint? Are most stints during a race 10 laps long?

I've seen Piquet Jr do 10 lap stints round Silverstone as if it was qualy

I don't know. Ask Ferrari as that's apparently what they were doing when they set their fastest times.

All I know is that just because a car does 10 laps and pits doesn't mean that it had only 10 laps worth of fuel. The number of laps in a stint indicates the minimum amount of fuel the car started with and nothing else. Trying to extrapolate the form book from that is a fool's errand which is why I don't pay any attention to James Allen and his ilk.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't know. Ask Ferrari as that's apparently what they were doing when they set their fastest times.

All I know is that just because a car does 10 laps and pits doesn't mean that it had only 10 laps worth of fuel. The number of laps in a stint indicates the minimum amount of fuel the car started with and nothing else. Trying to extrapolate the form book from that is a fool's errand which is why I don't pay any attention to James Allen and his ilk.

Maybe they want to see how the car would go in qualifying mode. Or maybe they just want to see how many ants they can run over in ten laps. Who knows. Who cares!! :rolleyes:

[F1boat]

You know, year after year I heard how irrelevant testing is and in the end it proves to be very useful, if you like to make predictions.
Several examples:
Last year everybody thought that Brawn are hunting for sponsors. But they were for real.
In 2005, everybody thought that there is no way for Renault and McLaren-Mercedes to suddenly overcome the mighty Ferrari. But they did.
A year before, in 2004, Ferrari were one second ahead of Williams and McLaren and guess what - they really owned them!
And between 2006 and 2008 the testing were with mixed results - and the championships were real close! So while it's a bit premature to make predictions based on one test, to say that tests are meaningless is to me incorrect.

[Valve Bounce]

You know, year after year I heard how irrelevant testing is and in the end it proves to be very useful, if you like to make predictions.
Several examples:
Last year everybody thought that Brawn are hunting for sponsors. But they were for real.
In 2005, everybody thought that there is no way for Renault and McLaren-Mercedes to suddenly overcome the mighty Ferrari. But they did.
A year before, in 2004, Ferrari were one second ahead of Williams and McLaren and guess what - they really owned them!
And between 2006 and 2008 the testing were with mixed results - and the championships were real close! So while it's a bit premature to make predictions based on one test, to say that tests are meaningless is to me incorrect.

Tests are tests! they are not meaningless at all. But you have to know what the teams are testing for. I certainly would not make predictions on who would win a WCC based on the first testing session of a season.

One thing is for certain - SchM is back!! Now you can make a solid prediction on that!!

[Saint Devote]

I think there are so many great drivers on the grid this season, its the car which is going to play the major factor. Massa, Alonso, Vettel, and Hamilton to name a few are more than capable of beating Schuey on their day and we are faced with one of the toughest grids of the last 20 years. Its not a case of Michael being able to use his amazing skills to compensate for the car should Mercedes be off the pace, as any one of these drivers have proven to be race winners who can deliver.

Its going to be a close and exciting season no doubt, and I'm sure Michael is under no illusions that he's not going to be able to stroll in and have the dominance he enjoyed between 2000 to 2004.

Sandbagging is a thing teams have done since the competition began, and they only have push to 75% of the cars potential in testing to know how good the car is reletive to their CFD testing back at the factory. Ferrari we think set their fastest times with 10 to 13 laps of fuel on board. Mclaren with 24 laps of fuel on board. Neither team put in a qualifying lap as they were careful not to give away their hands. Stefano Dominicalli was keen to highlight post testing interview. :)

It has become something reminiscient of a tough grid - Kimi missing does detract.

I do not think Schumi has any illusions - but he is the best racing brain out there and together with Ross Brawn and his ability to adapt, under the current refuelling-tyre regulations, this is a great advantage.

If Brawn [er, I mean Mercedes] have produced another good car they will be in a good position with two able drivers.

I hope it is a brilliant season - which does not neccessarily mean a close season. Close season's in F1 are not de jour.

I do not want a close season - I want a Jenson season! :D

[RJL25]

unlike the english who want a "Jenson season" or a "Lewis season" us Aussies are far more simple.. we're happy with just a "Webber wins Australian GP" and the rest of the season can do what it likes!

[Saint Devote]

Me too :up: ;) :p .

Wag! :D

Who is Lewis?

[wedge]

I don't know. Ask Ferrari as that's apparently what they were doing when they set their fastest times.

All I know is that just because a car does 10 laps and pits doesn't mean that it had only 10 laps worth of fuel. The number of laps in a stint indicates the minimum amount of fuel the car started with and nothing else. Trying to extrapolate the form book from that is a fool's errand which is why I don't pay any attention to James Allen and his ilk.

The Ferraris were doing 10-20 lap stints and were going faster and faster as the fuel burned off.

Consider Tuesday on that McLaren could just about match the Saubers with a hefty amount of fuel. Other cars were into the 1min 12s when they took fuel out.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sarahholt/2010/02/ferrari_and_mclaren_off_to_a_f.html

On Tuesday, McLaren's Lewis Hamilton strung together a 24-lap run and set his fastest lap of 1:12.256 during the middle of that spell.

That is revealing because Hamilton would have needed enough fuel on board to stay out for that distance. So to set a fastest time when he was carrying a not insignificant amount of fuel shows the McLaren, like the Ferrari, is in good shape.


http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/02/massa-fastest-again-on-day-2-in-valencia/

Second fastest (1:12.056) for BMW Sauber was 2009’s standout rookie Kamui Kobayashi, who also set his time early in the day on the fourth lap of an eight lap run. “We had no problems with the car and covered a lot of mileage. The car felt good, ” he said.


http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=356334&FS=F1

Willy Rampf
"It was another positive day of testing for us. First of all Kamui familiarised himself with the car and the track. We then continued with some basic set-up work and ran the car on different fuel levels. The latter is very important for us in order to be able to compare the results from the track with our results from track simulation. As yesterday, the car was reliable, which enabled us to complete our programme as scheduled."

[F1boat]

I certainly would not make predictions on who would win a WCC based on the first testing session of a season.



No, but if Ferrari are constantly fastest in all sessions... than they are in good position.

[Valve Bounce]

No, but if Ferrari are constantly fastest in all sessions... than they are in good position.

..........to...............

[jens]

Besides laptimes there are two more factors we need to take into account: weather and circuit layout. In winter temperatures are quite low and those cars that excel more in higher temperatures (meaning cars that are easier on tyres), are probably struggling more in winter than they would do in the real season. And secondly I think Barcelona would be the best circuit to indicate aero efficiency during the pre-season testing period. I think this area has been the biggest concern for various teams (Ferrari, McLaren).

What I find interesting regarding Ferrari is that although they seem obviously quite fast at low-fuel, they seemed to struggle more with heavy fuel load and were matched by the likes of Mercedes in that (well, that's purely my guess). So taking into account the rumours of Ferrari's poor fuel efficiency, the cars may actually struggle with a full tank in the early stages of races.

[jens]

St. Devote, the cool thing is that all top teams look formidable - at least on paper. Merc has the best combo ever, Michael and Ross, RBR has Newey and while I don't rate Vettel that much, with a car made by Newey, sometimes simply a good driver is enough. But Ferrari and McLaren are the all-time best in this sport and they have brilliant drivers as well.

Oh, I can see explanations/excuses being lined up already to devalue Vettel's future success (like we saw with Button's title last year). If Vettel wins 2010 WDC, then it will be only because an average driver happened to have a dominant car. :dozey:

[DazzlaF1]

Oh, I can see explanations/excuses being lined up already to devalue Vettel's future success (like we saw with Button's title last year). If Vettel wins 2010 WDC, then it will be only because an average driver happened to have a dominant car. :dozey:

Whereas whenever a Ferrari or McLaren win a title, its always "because they are a fabulous team with a great pedigree"

Last season proved that just because you have a great team, a gigantic budget and a glorious history does not always guarantee that you will build and race the best cars, last year's Ferrari for instance was probably the worst i've seen in nearly 2 decades.

[wedge]

Oh, I can see explanations/excuses being lined up already to devalue Vettel's future success (like we saw with Button's title last year). If Vettel wins 2010 WDC, then it will be only because an average driver happened to have a dominant car. :dozey:

In terms of raw speed Vettel is better than Button. He is talented but needs refining. Similar to Hamilton in that he compromises himself by pushing too hard.

[F1boat]

Oh, I can see explanations/excuses being lined up already to devalue Vettel's future success (like we saw with Button's title last year). If Vettel wins 2010 WDC, then it will be only because an average driver happened to have a dominant car. :dozey:

Of course! This is a fan forum!

[555-04Q2]

last year's Ferrari for instance was probably the worst i've seen in nearly 2 decades.

Where were you in 2005 :?: That car was a dog :down:

[f1indiablog]

Force India LIvery has been launched!!http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_okcyx1ajmR4/S3EeDbhko-I/AAAAAAAABeU/F6alVkTJW9I/s1600-h/VJMO3.jpg

http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/force-india-f1-2010-challenger-vjmo3.html

[truefan72]

Force India LIvery has been launched!!http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_okcyx1ajmR4/S3EeDbhko-I/AAAAAAAABeU/F6alVkTJW9I/s1600-h/VJMO3.jpg

http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/force-india-f1-2010-challenger-vjmo3.html

lol calm down man
I see you posting this in several threads.
We are all F1 fans and don't worry, somehow we will all manage to see the pics

[SGWilko]

Where were you in 2005 :?: That car was a dog :down:

More tyre related than car methinks. Bridgestone got it very wrong that year...... and Ferrari was their only team, apart from the backmarkers they had on their books also.......

[truefan72]

You know, year after year I heard how irrelevant testing is and in the end it proves to be very useful, if you like to make predictions.
Several examples:
Last year everybody thought that Brawn are hunting for sponsors. But they were for real.
In 2005, everybody thought that there is no way for Renault and McLaren-Mercedes to suddenly overcome the mighty Ferrari. But they did.
A year before, in 2004, Ferrari were one second ahead of Williams and McLaren and guess what - they really owned them!
And between 2006 and 2008 the testing were with mixed results - and the championships were real close! So while it's a bit premature to make predictions based on one test, to say that tests are meaningless is to me incorrect.


its a fair point.
While I don't put much stock in testing times per say, I do not dismiss them summarily either. It is more than just the times to me. it is also how the cars behave and if they seem quick or not. I think mclaren were playing it conservative during this first test and I do think Ferrari were on lighter fuel loads. But I also think the Ferrari seems well balanced and fairly quick around a more technical track. I also believe the macs will be right there. Sauber looks like they were on a few glory runs, but for those few days, they were consistently quick and had good times compared to the others, even on the longer runs. I do believe renault and Williams need much more work done on their cars, and probably benefited the most from these early tests to correct what seems like some obvious issues with their cars.

Testing is a good way to continue the development and preparation of each car, but one can also take a few things away from them as well.

Another small point would also be the mind games teams might play on each other during testing.

[callum122]

Is there any news or whispers floating around on KERS? Will any team sneak it into their package?
Im just crossing my fingers a team does include it :)

[Valve Bounce]

Is there any news or whispers floating around on KERS? Will any team sneak it into their package?
Im just crossing my fingers a team does include it :)

Well, Toyota have recalled all their Prius for brake modifications. Maybe that's a clue.

[callum122]

Haha. Oh well. 50,000 models recalled. Oh Toyota.

[F1boat]

its a fair point.
While I don't put much stock in testing times per say, I do not dismiss them summarily either. It is more than just the times to me. it is also how the cars behave and if they seem quick or not. I think mclaren were playing it conservative during this first test and I do think Ferrari were on lighter fuel loads. But I also think the Ferrari seems well balanced and fairly quick around a more technical track. I also believe the macs will be right there. Sauber looks like they were on a few glory runs, but for those few days, they were consistently quick and had good times compared to the others, even on the longer runs. I do believe renault and Williams need much more work done on their cars, and probably benefited the most from these early tests to correct what seems like some obvious issues with their cars.

Testing is a good way to continue the development and preparation of each car, but one can also take a few things away from them as well.

Another small point would also be the mind games teams might play on each other during testing.

I wouldn't forget the Merc, IMO they were very conservative too, maybe even more than the McLaren.

[truefan72]

Is there any news or whispers floating around on KERS? Will any team sneak it into their package?
Im just crossing my fingers a team does include it :)

I am am quietly hoping Mclaren re-introduces it. They had it dialed in by the end of the year

[truefan72]

I wouldn't forget the Merc, IMO they were very conservative too, maybe even more than the McLaren.

yeah, sorry forgot to mention them :)

[DexDexter]

Haha. Oh well. 50,000 models recalled. Oh Toyota.

Offtopic but to rub salt in their wounds, one of their biggest up-and- coming competitors is going from strength to strength everywhere.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hyundai-sales-up-40-percent-kia-up-43-7-percent-in-december/

[SGWilko]

Offtopic but to rub salt in their wounds, one of their biggest up-and- coming competitors is going from strength to strength everywhere.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hyundai-sales-up-40-percent-kia-up-43-7-percent-in-december/

Even Honda posted positive results last quarter I read recently.....

[christophulus]

http://cdn.gallery.autosport.com/picture_free.php/dir/2010febtest1/image/l__q0c4985-2

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/13245221

McLaren are running all sorts of weird devices on their car. The latest is this sensor hanging off the front wheel.

[Valve Bounce]

That is an advanced Bunsen burner which is intended to incinerate anyone foolhardy enough to overtake. :eek:

[f1indiablog]

http://cdn.gallery.autosport.com/picture_free.php/dir/2010febtest1/image/l__q0c4985-2

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/13245221

McLaren are running all sorts of weird devices on their car. The latest is this sensor hanging off the front wheel.

LOL..

[SGWilko]

With no more testing I would imagine the teams will be using all sorts of devices like this, like Ferrari with the pole sticking out the top of the airbox last week.

And no that wasn't a reference to Robert Kubica.. :)

Indeed.


A McLaren spokesman tells AUTOSPORT that the curious sidepod structure seen on Button's car this morning is part of the team's programme for measuring aerodynamic flow structures while on-track:

"Given the limited amount of testing that teams have been permitted over the past two seasons, as a team we feel it's necessary to put as much emphasis as we possibly can on accurately measuring the flow structures we encounter at the track so that we can match them to the flow structures we are able to simulate in CFD and the windtunnel back at the factory."

So, if the Virgin model of CFD only proves reliable, and testing is ruduced ever more, teams want to align themselves with better and more accurate methods of correlating theoretical (i.e CFD simulators) with practical track behaviour.

[CaptainRaiden]

Hmm, this is one weird contraption. Should be interesting to find out what it's for.

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145207.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145210.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145208.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145209.jpg

[Saint Devote]

Mclaren appear to be ignoring outright lap times once again and now concentrating on honing in their aerodynamics.

I would think that most teams are going to be focusing on the change in performance over an entire race distance because of the [welcome :-] no refuelling rule.

Maybe a proper picture of how quick a car is will only become known at the earliest in the last test - although Hamilton reckons only at Sakhir.

[Saint Devote]

The RB06 and MP4-25 look similar otehr than the front wings.

[Wasted Talent]

Hmm, this is one weird contraption. Should be interesting to find out what it's for.

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145207.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145210.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145208.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145209.jpg

It's to help guard against Schumacher..........

WT

[Saint Devote]

The testing regualtions has actually made testing extremely frustrating for everyone I'd say - for fans it was always great to see the teams pushing for times bacuse they could work on the car [testing] whenever they wanted to.

[F1boat]

That is an advanced Bunsen burner which is intended to incinerate anyone foolhardy enough to overtake. :eek:

rofl

[Julle69]

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145207.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145210.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145208.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/145209.jpg
It looks like a lawn mover, blade is just too high...

[RJL25]

If we remember back to last year Mclaren where having all sorts of trouble understanding the cars aerodynamics, they seem to be the only team to be obsessed with measuring airflow over the car again this year, we've already seen the green paint again this season which was a sign of big problems for Mclaren last year...

... are they STILL have trouble correlating their wind tunnel readings with the real world?

[Sonic]

Its to test air flow according to Mclaren. :)

A high tech version of their paint? Or perhaps that thing sprays paint into competitors eyes a la James May's lexus Police car! :D

In other new the Vr-01 has just rolled out for its first lap amoungst the big boys.

[RJL25]

anyone with a live timing update?

Either of the new cars quick? (virgin or RBR)