F1 2010: Testing sessions thread

[AndyL]

It's raining at Jerez so nothing really indicative.

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/174

[SGWilko]

If we remember back to last year Mclaren where having all sorts of trouble understanding the cars aerodynamics, they seem to be the only team to be obsessed with measuring airflow over the car again this year, we've already seen the green paint again this season which was a sign of big problems for Mclaren last year...

... are they STILL have trouble correlating their wind tunnel readings with the real world?

McLAren's development program last year, with little or no testing, was as a direct result of their friday runs using the vis paint. This takes it a step further.

They are clearly building a map of the effect on aero of the narrower front tyres, and how the air flows as the wheel turned against the flow, both rovolutions and steering effect.

[jens]

Regarding McLaren - is it really allowed to test with a detail that stretches out like that from the side? It is potentially dangerous. But McLaren certainly has a tendency to test with weird things on the car - I remember last year they had a birdcage or something like that. :D

P.S. Can't wait to see, how slow is that full CFD-car compared to others.

[truefan72]

what kind of testing are virgin doing?

at least get on the track and do some laps.

unless they are sitting in the garage running sims on the computer lol

I'm sure glock is frustrated.

[F1boat]

at least get on the track and do some laps.

unless they are sitting in the garage running sims on the computer lol


lol

[Dave B]

Looks like today is finished: with 45 minutes to go Autosport report (http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/174)that
15:15 If anything the conditions appear to be getting slightly worse now. The spray behind the cars is increasing, and Hulkenberg and Alonso have taken longer to get up to speed this time. Kobayashi pitted after just one lap.

Can't see anybody doing any more meaningful work today.

[SGWilko]

Looks like today is finished: with 45 minutes to go Autosport report (http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/174)that

Can't see anybody doing any more meaningful work today.

Ah, the rain in Spain....

[Dave B]

Red flag. Rosberg's Merc has stopped on track, possibly with a mechanical problem, and with four minutes left I'd say that's game over for today.

[Dave B]

1º 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 00:01'20''297 36
.2º 16 Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 00:01'21''031 00:00'00''734 80
.3º 10 Nico Hulkenberg Williams 00:01'22''043 00:00'01''746 99
.4º 8 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 00:01'22''895 00:00'02''598 71
.5º 27 Kamui Kobayashi BMW-Sauber 00:01'23''287 00:00'02''990 46
.6º 1 Jenson Button McLaren 00:01'24''947 00:00'04''650 64
.7º 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi Force India 00:01'24''968 00:00'04''671 59
.8º 12 Vitaly Petrov Renault 00:01'25''440 00:00'05''143 23
.9º 6 Mark Webber Red Bull 00:01'26''502 00:00'06''205 47
.10º 24 Timo Glock Virgin Racing 00:01'38''734 00:00'18''437 03

[Pulidor]

Ah, the rain in Spain....

I'd rather say....
ugh!, the rain in Spain... :D

[RS]

what kind of testing are virgin doing?

at least get on the track and do some laps.

unless they are sitting in the garage running sims on the computer lol

I'm sure glock is frustrated.

I hope Virgin run more laps tomorrow and that it is dry so we at least get a rough idea of where they are.

Still, they have done more laps than the other new teams so far...

[DexDexter]

I hope Virgin run more laps tomorrow and that it is dry so we at least get a rough idea of where they are.

Still, they have done more laps than the other new teams so far...

Have they, I think Lotus tested at Silverstone for a couple of laps yesterday. ;)

[SGWilko]

Have they, I think Lotus tested at Silverstone for a couple of laps yesterday. ;)

Virgin did that too. :)

[VkmSpouge]

Shame the rain put pay to us seeing how close Virgin are to the established teams. Hopefully there will be better weather tomorrow.

[truefan72]

yes lets hope so

[F1boat]

Still raining...

[SGWilko]

Still raining...

Welcome to England, have a nice day!!! ;)

[christophulus]

Williams are hosting some live timing on their website.

http://www.attwilliams.com/test-timings

[AndyL]

Williams are hosting some live timing on their website.

http://www.attwilliams.com/test-timings

Is that still working? I'm getting 502 Bad Gateway.

[f1indiablog]

Is that still working? I'm getting 502 Bad Gateway.

Yeah.. Link is down due to heavy-traffic.. It was working before

Check out http://bit.ly/9kgOKJ
for other websites which are providing live updates

[ArrowsFA1]

Is that still working? I'm getting 502 Bad Gateway.


There are so many of you looking at the live feed it's crashed our server! Can I ask you refrain from using it till its fixed? We tried!
http://twitter.com/ClaireVWilliams

[Dave B]

The sites I've been using, apart from Twitter, are:

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/175

http://directo.thef1.es/tests/ (Spanish language but seems to update quicker than Autosport)

[Dave B]

A mountain to climb for Virgin, nearly 10 seconds off the pace and unable to do any more running today because of a lack of spare parts.

And this with some experienced personnel in their team. Kinda puts into perspective just how difficult F1 is (and should be). Still, at least they're out there testing :up:

(Edit: Alonso's 6/10ths appear to have been lost in transit today now that Ferrari are actually doing some longish runs :p )

[ArrowsFA1]

Great to see the Virgin running, although they've only completed a handfull of laps. Given that they're a brand new team I guess these kind of setbacks are to be expected. It's certainly a very steep learning curve for them.

[RJL25]

the excercise for Virgin seems to be largely an extended shakedown session.

I really hope their lack of pace is due to them not doing any serious attempts at setting a lap time and not a result of the aerodynamics not working in the real world as well as it does on computer... Newey said a car designed 100% on CFD won't work and you can only create a concept on CFD but the actual design has to be developed in the wind tunnel... looks like he might be right

[AndyL]

Their aerodynamics definitely stopped working when Timo's front wing fell off ;)
And apparently they don't have the necessary spare parts so no more running for them today. Which will be unfortunate for them if it rains for the rest of the test.
Very early days though, I'm sure they will make substantial improvements and be closer to the pace on 12 March.

[wedge]

Glock had front wing failure

[ArrowsFA1]

Newey said a car designed 100% on CFD won't work and you can only create a concept on CFD but the actual design has to be developed in the wind tunnel... looks like he might be right
Hasn't he already been proved wrong, in the case of the ALMS Acura at least.

In any case, it's very early days for the VR-01 and this is what testing is for.

[I am evil Homer]

Indeed...the Acura LMS proves Newey wrong. But maybe he feels an F1 car cannot be done that way.

Virgin will be fine - that's why F1 has testing and for a brand new team I applaud them for being there, unlike the other 3!

[SGWilko]

Alonso apparently managed 47 laps on the same tyres.. Impressive

Eh? I managed 19000 miles on a set of fronts just recently. Mind you, they are Michelin! ;)

[SGWilko]

Another weird testing device by Mclaren.

http://twitpic.com/12kra1

http://twitpic.com/12krck

Christmas lights, in February.....?

[Dave B]

Alonso now on his 100th lap of the day - certainly no reliability worries for Ferrari at this stage!

[Dave B]

But 6/10ths slower... :erm:

[wedge]

Newey said a car designed 100% on CFD won't work and you can only create a concept on CFD but the actual design has to be developed in the wind tunnel... looks like he might be right

That's his opinion.

Force India did the opposite of Newey. They relied on CFD to develop last year's car. They said it was good at analysing flow rates at a macro level.

No one yet really knows the precise reason for the "mounting failure" whether it be a clumsy mechanic, structual failure or the wrong numbers from the design room.

[AndyL]

First failure for McLaren - apparently Button's stopped at "Curva Dry Sack" (love that name :) )

[wedge]

Hasn't he already been proved wrong, in the case of the ALMS Acura at least.

In any case, it's very early days for the VR-01 and this is what testing is for.

But the problem was that the Acuras were racing themselves in ALMS. Yes Wirth and developed it all year but not under duress of competition had the Audis and Porsches continued racing last year.

[Dave B]

And the winner is... Kobayashi.

According to unofficial timing he snuck his Sauber into top spot just as today's session ended.

1 Kobayashi Sauber 1m19.950s
2 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m20.026s +0.076
3 Button McLaren 1m20.618s +0.668
4 Hulkenberg Williams 1m20.629s +0.679
5 Liuzzi Force India 1m20.754s +0.804
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.083s +1.133
7 Alonso Ferrari 1m21.424s +1.474
8 Kubica Renault 1m22.003s +2.053
9 Webber Red Bull 1m22.043s +2.093
10 Glock Virgin 1m29.964s +10.014

[jens]

Huh, what a strange period of testing we have had at Jerez so far, made more difficult to read due to weather. As far as I can see, no team has "done a Brawn" so far and dominated the field, so it's still open. What surprises me is the pace of STR - Buemi seemed to be making competitive times both on shorter and longer runs.

What seems obvious is that Virgin is clearly behind all and is obviously suffering a difficult start. Hopefully it isn't a fundamental flaw that the car is unable to deal with the forces on a bumpy track like Jerez? Hopefully Lotus will do better.

[F1boat]

For me Sauber are the biggest surprise. I wonder however if STR is that fast, whether RBR will copy its ideas lol.

[truefan72]

a bit disappointing that Virgin was not better prepared for this test. You cannot loose a front wing and then call it a day because you don't have spares. Shouldn't happen in today's F1. And before that, they were not really running laps anyway. So I'm not sure why they even showed up at Jerez. Seems they were not ready yet

[jens]

For me Sauber are the biggest surprise. I wonder however if STR is that fast, whether RBR will copy its ideas lol.

Kobayashi seemed to make one quick lap at the end of the session, before this he wasn't that visible. In some ways STR's good performance could be logical since their car is pretty much an evolution from RB5 (well, sounds similar to the sentence that used to describe RB6 :D ), so the main questionmark has been the level of quality work at Faenza factory. Last year STR was struggling notably despite having essentially the same chassis as RBR, but maybe by now they have managed to install the Ferrari engine properly? It's like STR finally becoming fast in 2008 after earlier struggles.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81409

Tis only testing, but....

"Alonso was particularly eye-catching, with Alonso lapping in 1m21.928s towards the end, while Schumacher's later times were around 1m23s"

And that was on a longer run by Fernando too.

forget 6/10ths, it's now 1.2seconds plus!

[jens]

a bit disappointing that Virgin was not better prepared for this test. You cannot loose a front wing and then call it a day because you don't have spares. Shouldn't happen in today's F1. And before that, they were not really running laps anyway. So I'm not sure why they even showed up at Jerez. Seems they were not ready yet

Then again it's better for Virgin to undergo those embarrassing incidents in testing rather than at GP weekends! I don't dare to think, what might Campos and USF1 be up to in Bahrain without any testing if they somehow miraculously make it to the grid.

[Sonic]

Very impressed with little Nico. Fast and error free - bodes well.

Maru was 5th or so for most of the day so I think we can over look the banzi last lap.

[Robinho]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81409

Tis only testing, but....

"Alonso was particularly eye-catching, with Alonso lapping in 1m21.928s towards the end, while Schumacher's later times were around 1m23s"

And that was on a longer run by Fernando too.

forget 6/10ths, it's now 1.2seconds plus!

1.2 secs over some flabby old dude with a dodgy neck ;)

[Robinho]

i think we're writing of Virgin waaaay too soon - they only did, what, 11 laps, and the first 6 or 7 of them were just installation laps, Red Bull were something like 6+ seconds off on the first few laps, i very much doubt that Virgin have completed a flat out lap yet and will have been building up slowly.

don't get me wrong, i don't expect to see them at the top of the timesheets any time soon, but they are not 10 seconds off the pace either

[Sonic]

i think we're writing of Virgin waaaay too soon - they only did, what, 11 laps, and the first 6 or 7 of them were just installation laps, Red Bull were something like 6+ seconds off on the first few laps, i very much doubt that Virgin have completed a flat out lap yet and will have been building up slowly.

don't get me wrong, i don't expect to see them at the top of the timesheets any time soon, but they are not 10 seconds off the pace either

Agreed. You'd be less than 10 secs off the pace in a GP2 car with an F1 engine bolted in the back so Virgin will certainly improve.

Testing is all about learning what does and doesn't work - clearly front wing mounts requiree some improvement! :D

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81415

Well, uh, I think I got that mixed up somehow.

[wedge]

a bit disappointing that Virgin was not better prepared for this test. You cannot loose a front wing and then call it a day because you don't have spares. Shouldn't happen in today's F1. And before that, they were not really running laps anyway. So I'm not sure why they even showed up at Jerez. Seems they were not ready yet

Compared to other new teams at least they completed a car, attempted to turn up and run with their fellow competitors and still have some time to understand the car with a couple more weeks of testing (dry hopefully)

[truefan72]

Compared to other new teams at least they completed a car, attempted to turn up and run with their fellow competitors and still have some time to understand the car with a couple more weeks of testing (dry hopefully)

don't get me wrong I am not writing them off at all .In fact quite the opposite. ! am glad they made it to testing and that the car seems well put together. I am just disappointed that in the first 2 days we have seen virtually nothing from them and that they seemed a little unprepared to handle the issue of replacing a broken nose.

But also before that incident, you would have thought they would have wanted to run more laps just to break the car in better. We will see what the next 2 days hold and hopefully they will run a good number of laps.

[Saint Devote]

Give Virgin breathing room. To citicize them or be "disappointed" or anything is ridiculous to say the very least.

There was a time when new teams - that ultimately won grands prix and championships - spent YEARS at the back of the grid using cars purchased from constructors just getting to know their way around and learning the grand prix business.

They have capable people in the team, have produced a beautiful car, risking ridicule trying a new concept and are only FIVE seconds off the pace in today's ultra-competitive environment where 200ths of a econd slower than a teammate relegates a driver to "also-ran" status?

Virgin are a success story! And have a lot to be proud of.

If anyone wants an idea of what the Branson momentum is made of just look back at the determination of Virgin Galactic.

[truefan72]

here is a good video from today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQflzH2amU&feature=channel

and I am sure there are links to the other 3 parts

[RJL25]

Just watched some footage in the above youtube link of the virgin car's front wing flexing very badly at each end down the main straight before basically falling appart the next corner.

This would be the reason Virgin had to suspend their test, front wing just not strong enough to cope with the downforce it creates. That will require a full re-design of their front wing which i'm sure wasn't in the plan...

These things happen though when your a brand new team unfortunately. This is why campos and USF1 have to get their act together and test before they turn up to Bahrain!

[Saint Devote]

Just watched some footage in the above youtube link of the virgin car's front wing flexing very badly at each end down the main straight before basically falling appart the next corner.

This would be the reason Virgin had to suspend their test, front wing just not strong enough to cope with the downforce it creates. That will require a full re-design of their front wing which i'm sure wasn't in the plan...

These things happen though when your a brand new team unfortunately. This is why campos and USF1 have to get their act together and test before they turn up to Bahrain!

Which is why no team ought to be allowed to race unless they have particpated in at the minimum of TWO official tests.

[gloomyDAY]

Finally! Proof that Mike's neck is hurting.Believe it now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQflzH2amU#t=9m30s)

I thought it was pretty nuts when Glock's wing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQflzH2amU#t=6m05s) shot off!

[Saint Devote]

Finally! Proof that Mike's neck is hurting.Believe it now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQflzH2amU#t=9m30s)

I thought it was pretty nuts when Glock's wing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQflzH2amU#t=6m05s) shot off!

Schumi was clicking his neck, thats all. And given that he is now rebuilding his strength it will not be unusual for ALL the drivers to have some neck soreness. It is always like that.

There is no other sport where the concentration and g-forces are as in F1.

[turismo6]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2010/2/11/1265911568607/Timo-Glock-001.jpg

[gloomyDAY]

Schumi was clicking his neck, thats all. And given that he is now rebuilding his strength it will not be unusual for ALL the drivers to have some neck soreness. It is always like that.

There is no other sport where the concentration and g-forces are as in F1. :eek: I got a serious response?

You're dummer than I thought.

[truefan72]

Just watched some footage in the above youtube link of the virgin car's front wing flexing very badly at each end down the main straight before basically falling appart the next corner.

This would be the reason Virgin had to suspend their test, front wing just not strong enough to cope with the downforce it creates. That will require a full re-design of their front wing which i'm sure wasn't in the plan...

yes on further analysis it seems that the problem extended beyond the wing. But we will see. they say new parts will come by today and they should be up and running. i suspect a redesigned nose section. From what I hear it can take up to 7 hours fpr the carbon composite to set and the paint job to be done. Let's hope they did 2 of them and are on the plane as we speak.


Which is why no team ought to be allowed to race unless they have particpated in at the minimum of TWO official tests.

yep

[ArrowsFA1]

eddstrawF1 (http://twitter.com/eddstrawF1) - Don't worry about Di Grassi's times - the Virgin is not that far off the pace!


15:05 Di Grassi returning from his first run in the Virgin
Given the conditions at the time, he was lapping within about five seconds of most teams
14:50 Di Grassi pits after a seven-lap run to check the front wing modifications.
14:43 He improves second time round to a 1m39s, 10 seconds slower than the fastest cars circulating right now
14:41 Di Grassi's first laptime in the Virgin is a 1m45s
14:40 Lucas di Grassi has now done his first lap in the car in an official Formula 1 session
http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/176

[Dave B]

And that's all for today:



Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:19.919 76
2. de la Rosa BMW-Sauber (B) 1:20.736 58
3. Sutil Force India-Mercedes (B) 1:21.428 48
4. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:21.603 72
5. Vettel Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.783 59
6. Petrov Renault (B) 1:22.000 68
7. Rosberg Mercedes GP (B) 1:22.820 53
8. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth (B) 1:23.217 120
9. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:23.985 68
10. di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth (B) 1:37.107 8

[ArrowsFA1]

But the problem was that the Acuras were racing themselves in ALMS. Yes Wirth and developed it all year but not under duress of competition had the Audis and Porsches continued racing last year.
Fair point. Audi & Peugeot certainly had the beating of the Acura when they appeared and, with all due respect to the ALMS, F1 is going to be more competitive and a much tougher testing ground; not only for a CFD designed car, but for a new team.

I think the Acura showed a CFD car can work, but whether it can be consistently competitive against F1 opposition only time will tell.

[jens]

Before the rain came down, STR again this time with Alguersuari behind the wheel managed to make some impressive laptimes. Anyway, Liuzzi in an interview for Autosport.com has said that no-one seems to have risen above others and it's very tight. So hopefully that very tight level of competition we have had in recent times will carry on in 2010. :)

[DazzlaF1]

Fair point. Audi & Peugeot certainly had the beating of the Acura when they appeared and, with all due respect to the ALMS, F1 is going to be more competitive and a much tougher testing ground; not only for a CFD designed car, but for a new team.

I think the Acura showed a CFD car can work, but whether it can be consistently competitive against F1 opposition only time will tell.

True, but it would be stupid to totally dismiss what Virgin are doing in terms of F1 car design based on just 15 laps of fairly conservative running, we need to see what it can do on a trouble free run before we can get a general idea

[truefan72]

can you beleive the dummies at F1 took down the youtube videos?

[RJL25]

CFD's effectiveness can't be totally guaged on Virgin's performances because they are a brand new team with zero experience in F1 unlike other new teams in the past which have bought out existing teams and therefore have some level of existing experience.

I would expect them to be 4-5 seconds off the pace regardless even if the CFD approach is a success

[Valve Bounce]

can you beleive the dummies at F1 took down the youtube videos?

Yeah! :( I just tried to have a look at it.

[Dave B]

However many problems Virgin may be having, I admire their style. They've got some experienced people in the team and are cracking on without making foolish and impossible predictions. I can well see Lotus doing the same.

But it does highlight just how much of a mountain USF1 and Campos have to climb - assuming they ever get round to fielding any cars. If we still had pre-qualifying they might as well not bother turning up.

[wedge]

Fair point. Audi & Peugeot certainly had the beating of the Acura when they appeared and, with all due respect to the ALMS, F1 is going to be more competitive and a much tougher testing ground; not only for a CFD designed car, but for a new team.

I think the Acura showed a CFD car can work, but whether it can be consistently competitive against F1 opposition only time will tell.

Corvette C6 LMGT2 was designed entirely with CFD and became competitive and winning races though you could argue GT2 is far less exotic than GT1.

Single seaters however create far more drag. You can't Wirth's approach yet (even Mike Gascoyne joined in the fray) I think you need to give it time but this week's test haven't helped things.

[RJL25]

but this week's test haven't helped things.

not so sure, they missed out on the dry track time yesterday when other cars got out their so their outright lap times compared to those who set their best in the dry isn't totally representative.

Apparently in the wet yesterday they where circulating around 5 seconds off the pace of other cars in the same conditions. Without being awesome, that's still petty darn respectable for a brand new team on their very first test. Certainly s all over Campos and USF1!

[DexDexter]

not so sure, they missed out on the dry track time yesterday when other cars got out their so their outright lap times compared to those who set their best in the dry isn't totally representative.

Apparently in the wet yesterday they where circulating around 5 seconds off the pace of other cars in the same conditions. Without being awesome, that's still petty darn respectable for a brand new team on their very first test. Certainly s all over Campos and USF1!

At the moment they are 5 seconds off Barrichello who is currently the quickest, so...could be worse.

[Sonic]

At the moment they are 5 seconds off Barrichello who is currently the quickest, so...could be worse.

I think that's in line with expectation straight out of the box. Hopefully they'll be able to shave a few tenths off that prior to the first race and be a very respectable new outfit. It will be fascinating to see how they compare to Lotus, who have gone done the more traditional design route. If they merely equal Virgins pace the CFD will have prooved itself and visa versa if Lotus blow their doors off.

[DexDexter]

I think that's in line with expectation straight out of the box. Hopefully they'll be able to shave a few tenths off that prior to the first race and be a very respectable new outfit. It will be fascinating to see how they compare to Lotus, who have gone done the more traditional design route. If they merely equal Virgins pace the CFD will have prooved itself and visa versa if Lotus blow their doors off.

Well, now they are only 2,7 seconds off the pace which doesn't sound bad at all no matter what the others are doing. Quite impressive IMO.

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/177

[AndyL]

Well, now they are only 2,7 seconds off the pace which doesn't sound bad at all no matter what the others are doing. Quite impressive IMO.

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/177

You have to assume it was probably on low fuel, but impressive nevertheless. I certainly wasn't expecting to see them looking that competitive so soon. Less than 3 seconds off the best time from yesterday.

[gloomyDAY]

I'm very happy for Virgin.

Trouble free day and lots of laps completed.

[truefan72]

I'm very happy for Virgin.

Trouble free day and lots of laps completed.

yep and times were respectable

Renault also seems to be getting things sorted out

[jens]

Well, Virgin was actually IMO very impressive after their earlier troubles, even if their fastest lap was done on fumes.

But I don't remember winter testing, which has left the situation as unclear as it looks now especially with all teams testing together - maybe a comparison can be brought from last year. :) Anyway, it looks quite tight, so quite like 2009. :p : And if we recall Australian GP qualifying, then indeed - after Brawn the rest of the teams were rather similarly paced.

One thing I have learnt from Jerez is that Ferrari's long stint was arguably impressive. They also looked in good shape at Valencia, but I'm not convinced they are the "team to beat".
McLaren? Well, it looks like their situation is certainly better than last year at the same time. Should be taken into serious consideration.
Mercedes I personally suspect is a bit behind. There are also rumours that not all of their '10 parts have been unveiled yet (like diffuser), but a couple of days ago there were suggestions that MB was a second per lap slower than Ferrari on a long-run.

Red Bull and Force India have joined others in testing, but all that rain has left their potential kinda unlocked. RBR has been generally left a bit in the shadow, but I still get the feeling they are in the mix. Same with Force India - Sutil seems rather upbeat about the car. But hardly surprising - I quite expected them to be the dark horse of the season to mix it with the top guns.

Sauber and STR are a bit unclear. Both have shown glimpses of speed, but how exactly do they fit among others in the pecking order, is a bit unclear.

Williams has looked better than at Valencia, but they constantly leave an impression that something is still missing. The same can be said about Renault.

Well, let's see, what will the next tests bring to us. :)

[DazzlaF1]

I'm very happy for Virgin.

Trouble free day and lots of laps completed.

Yep, to be just 3.3 seconds off the fastest time on your first proper run is a fantastic achievement, definitely something to build from.

Really really happy for them indeed

[Sonic]

I found it very interesting that both schu and massa ran out of fuel (on purpose), clearly the teams are trying to find out just how fine they can cut it for a GP distance.

[DazzlaF1]

OVERALL TEST TIMES FOR 2nd OFFICIAL TEST

1. Lewis Hamilton - McLaren ................ 1m 19.583
2. Jaime Alguersuari - Toro Rosso ................ + 0.336
3. Kamui Kobayashi - Sauber ................ + 0.367
4. Sebastien Buemi - Toro Rosso ................ + 0.443
5. Adrian Sutil - Force India ................ + 0.597
6. Rubens Barrichello - Williams ................ + 0.758
7. Robert Kubica - Renault ................ + 0.775
8. Michael Schumacher - Mercedes ................ + 1.030
9. Jenson Button - McLaren ................ + 1.035
10. Niko Hulkenberg - Williams ................ + 1.046
11. Pedro de la Rosa - Sauber ................ + 1.153
12. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes ................ + 1.344
13. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull ................ + 1.620
14. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari ................ + 1.841
15. Felipe Massa - Ferrari ................ + 1.902
16. Vitaly Petrov - Renault ................ + 2.417
17. Mark Webber - Red Bull ................ + 2.460
18. Lucas di Grassi - Virgin ................ + 3.329
19. Vitantonio Liuzzi - Force India ................ + 5.385
20. Timo Glock - Virgin ................ + 10.381

[woody2goody]

It's extremely tight at the moment.

If anything it's just getting me more and more excited for the season by the day, as it looks like we could potentially have many different winners depending on circuit, temperature and strategy.

[RS]

Yep, to be just 3.3 seconds off the fastest time on your first proper run is a fantastic achievement, definitely something to build from.

Really really happy for them indeed

I agree.

Now that they have the car working a bit more reliably it will be interesting to see what they can do next week if we have some dry running, especially when Glock gets another go.

I am also really interested to see how the Lotus does next week.

[DazzlaF1]

I agree.

Now that they have the car working a bit more reliably it will be interesting to see what they can do next week if we have some dry running, especially when Glock gets another go.

I am also really interested to see how the Lotus does next week.

TBH, im expecting them to be in the same ballpark (around 3-4 seconds behind) but like you say, as long as they have the car running reliably then they can work on it

[Valve Bounce]

When I consider that Toyota had one entire year to test and develop their car before entering F1, it does make the accomplishment of the new teams with their cars quite remarkable.

[Sonic]

When I consider that Toyota had one entire year to test and develop their car before entering F1, it does make the accomplishment of the new teams with their cars quite remarkable.

Quite so. Let's keep our finger crossed that all 4 newbies show up.

[Saint Devote]

I found it very interesting that both schu and massa ran out of fuel (on purpose), clearly the teams are trying to find out just how fine they can cut it for a GP distance.

It gives some idea but under racing conditions including temperatures much higher its unreliable - maybe they were more seeing how well their fuel tanks work.

Mclaren is only going to have close to their race setup on the car at the last test at Catalunya.

I am pleased for Virgin but really not surprised because they had barely run - around three seconds these days is a lot but other teams also have run that time and we have no idea what they were running fuel wise. I think we can expect even better performances from Virgin.

[Saint Devote]

When I consider that Toyota had one entire year to test and develop their car before entering F1, it does make the accomplishment of the new teams with their cars quite remarkable.

Large auto manufacturers have always been on a hiding to nowhere at great expense in modern day F1.

Mercedes purchasing the British team Brawn GP, led by Ross Brawn may pretend that it is the auto manufacturer and install German drivers and paint the cars as "silver arrows", but we all know that it not at all.

Even the FO108W is built and run in England.

I think all the teams - not Ferrari now that it is Italian once again - should ALWAYS play "God Save The Queen" as well as the "teams anthem"!

The pretense that rules the marketing in F1 is ridiculous - but I guess as long as the ignorant general consumer is fooled its okay.

[Saint Devote]

Fair point. Audi & Peugeot certainly had the beating of the Acura when they appeared and, with all due respect to the ALMS, F1 is going to be more competitive and a much tougher testing ground; not only for a CFD designed car, but for a new team.

I think the Acura showed a CFD car can work, but whether it can be consistently competitive against F1 opposition only time will tell.

During the season there is a limit on wind tunnel activity. On the other hand there is no CFD limit.

This is an approach that could work out well as the season progresses I reckon.

Great to have Sir Richard in F1 and Nick Wirth back in F1 - these are the sort of people that F1 was INVENTED for! :D

[CNR]

Q: cosworth and williams gearbox not compatible all the problems they had in 2006 will they have them again this year ?

http://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2010/02/gearbox-problems-plague-williams-test/


A gearbox problem cut short the team’s day, and Barrichello was unable to finish the day with an attempt on a faster lap time

[Valve Bounce]

I think all the teams - not Ferrari now that it is Italian once again - should ALWAYS play "God Save The Queen" as well as the "teams anthem"!

.

I love Freddy Mercury too, but isn't this going a bit too far?

[Saint Devote]

I love Freddy Mercury too, but isn't this going a bit too far?

:D
Don't know - we could always add "We are the champions" for Jenson and Mercedes, but then Webber would want "Waltzing Matilda" and maybe Lewis "There'll Aways Be an England" and Bernie would get all bolshy and demand "Britannia Rules The Waves".

Wonder who would want any Gilbert And Sullivan? Probably that quirky fellow who drove Kate's Dirty Sister!!!!

I think all the teams - not Ferrari now that it is Italian once again - should ALWAYS play "God Save The Queen" as well as the "teams anthem"!

Switzerland is a county in England now?

[52Paddy]

I think all the teams - not Ferrari now that it is Italian once again - should ALWAYS play "God Save The Queen" as well as the "teams anthem"!

Definitely - Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten all the way :s kull:

"God Save the Queen - The Fascist Regime! :bones:

[Saint Devote]

Definitely - Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten all the way :s kull:

"God Save the Queen - The Fascist Regime! :bones:

No future for you!!! :s mokin:

[52Paddy]

No future for you!!! :s mokin:

You have it alright :D

[Saint Devote]

Switzerland is a county in England now?

Now, really - use your noggin!
Sauber are UNLIKELY to score podiums are they now! :vader:

[Sonic]

Now, really - use your noggin!
Sauber are UNLIKELY to score podiums are they now! :vader:

I'll take that bet! :D

[Saint Devote]

I'll take that bet! :D

You can have it :s mokin:

The odds that Sauber will beat Mclaren, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull - EIGHT top drivers in the top four teams versus de la Rosa and Kobayashi into a THIRD place in 2010?

I am sure BetClic will be happy to accomodate you!

[Sonic]

You can have it :s mokin:

The odds that Sauber will beat Mclaren, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull - EIGHT top drivers in the top four teams versus de la Rosa and Kobayashi into a THIRD place in 2010?

I am sure BetClic will be happy to accomodate you!

I'm sure no one expected Force India to score a pole and a podium in '09 or STR to win a race outright - but it happened! Sauber have a good car and an aggressive driver in Kobay so there's nothing to say they can't reach thepodium this year.

[Saint Devote]

I'm sure no one expected Force India to score a pole and a podium in '09 or STR to win a race outright - but it happened! Sauber have a good car and an aggressive driver in Kobay so there's nothing to say they can't reach thepodium this year.

True, it is is possible - this motor racing, but it is probability on which odds are reckoned.

And is not at all on the side of teams like Sauber given that none of teams likely to occupy the top eight positions of all grands prix are in trouble with their designs.

And neither Kobayashi or de la Rosa are a Vettel.

[truefan72]

True, it is is possible - this motor racing, but it is probability on which odds are reckoned.

And is not at all on the side of teams like Sauber given that none of teams likely to occupy the top eight positions of all grands prix are in trouble with their designs.

And neither Kobayashi or de la Rosa are a Vettel.

its top 10 positions this year

and there is an old saying in sports

"that's why they play the games" and in F1, "that's why they race on sundays"

who knows what will happen on any given race and i think that there are plenty of teams capable of winning races this year

[Saint Devote]

its top 10 positions this year

and there is an old saying in sports

"that's why they play the games" and in F1, "that's why they race on sundays"

who knows what will happen on any given race and i think that there are plenty of teams capable of winning races this year

The top eight I referred to are those for the top four teams. I think the word "top" begins to degrade significantly beyond the first five positons anyway.

I'd say given the unreliability of gauging peformance the only cars in with a real probability of winning races are the top four teams.

[F1boat]

IMO Kamui is a very fast driver and can surprise in an odd race. Same about Pedro. But I admit that it will be a very odd race.

[Saint Devote]

IMO Kamui is a very fast driver and can surprise in an odd race. Same about Pedro. But I admit that it will be a very odd race.

Its too early to properly assess Kobayashi. He did not fair too well in GP2, but I do respect the "eye" of Peter Sauber to select good drivers.

He performed well at Yas Marina and could be the best prospect yet from Japan. Away from the Tokyo influence he can do well.

[racepode1]

Agree i need to see some more races of Kobayashi. There's a lot of drivers with lots of victories in F3000, GP2 and no success in F1. The performance in feeders series is not a good parameter to analize a pilot. Koba show us that he is really fast, but this is not the only attribute that has to have a good F1 driver.

[F1boat]

But Kamui did well in GP2. He won the asian championship!

[Sonic]

But Kamui did well in GP2. He won the asian championship!

Right on! :D

His junior formula history is not as impressive as, say, Nico Hulkenberg but he has won a major international championship - he's the real deal people and this year he's gonna prove it! :)

[UltimateDanGTR]

he's the real deal people and this year he's gonna prove it! :)

you hope :D

actually, I do to! It would be nice to see a Japanese driver who is properly fast, rather than Nakajima who IMO was not good enough. how did I come to this conclusion? 2009; 35-0 to Rosberg vs Nakajima.

Sato was alright, Hopefully Kamui will be better though

time will tell.

[DexDexter]

IMO Kamui is a very fast driver and can surprise in an odd race. Same about Pedro. But I admit that it will be a very odd race.

They could surprise, but what if they are fighting with Ferraris for the lead? Maybe the engines will suddenly lose power for the next race... :p

[woody2goody]

you hope :D

actually, I do to! It would be nice to see a Japanese driver who is properly fast, rather than Nakajima who IMO was not good enough. how did I come to this conclusion? 2009; 35-0 to Rosberg vs Nakajima.

Sato was alright, Hopefully Kamui will be better though

time will tell.

Nakajima was good enough IMO but bad luck stopped him from scoring in 2009 whenever he was having a good run.

Anyway, another question: Why are Lotus planning on running Fairuz Fauzy instead of Trulli or Kovy on the first day of testing this week? Surely, especially for a new team, it is much more beneficial - no, essential, for the race drivers to get as much mileage as they can before Bahrain.

[woody2goody]

Right on! :D

His junior formula history is not as impressive as, say, Nico Hulkenberg but he has won a major international championship - he's the real deal people and this year he's gonna prove it! :)

I think Pedro will beat him this year, but Kamui needs race experience which de la Rosa already has. I expect a couple of podiums from the Japanese driver this year though based on the car's current performance.

[Saint Devote]

They could surprise, but what if they are fighting with Ferraris for the lead? Maybe the engines will suddenly lose power for the next race... :p

Talk about "over the top" - Kobayashi fighting AMassa - never mind Alonso - for the lead! :eek:

I don't think so auld sport! Lets not go all nuts over this Nipponese racer - a modicum of reality is always good.

[Saint Devote]

I think Pedro will beat him this year, but Kamui needs race experience which de la Rosa already has. I expect a couple of podiums from the Japanese driver this year though based on the car's current performance.

You are placing a lot on the results of the first two tests when nobody was running a race setup, none of the top or mid-field drivers were in race mode and that the Sauber team is at a significant disadvantage without sponsorship - as the season progresses the Sauber is therefore going to regress.

Of course if Sauber beats Ferrari, Maranello will be on suicide watch!

[DexDexter]

Talk about "over the top" - Kobayashi fighting AMassa - never mind Alonso - for the lead! :eek:

I don't think so auld sport! Lets not go all nuts over this Nipponese racer - a modicum of reality is always good.

After watching Force India last year, anything is possible. Remember Fisi shadowing Kimi at Spa and being absolutely nowhere a coupe of races before? It's possible if not very likely.

[Saint Devote]

After watching Force India last year, anything is possible. Remember Fisi shadowing Kimi at Spa and being absolutely nowhere a coupe of races before? It's possible if not very likely.

That was a problematic Ferrari versus the Force India with the field diminished by the accident on the opening lap.

I doubt any of the top teams have gotten ther sums wrong this year.

[truefan72]

That was a problematic Ferrari versus the Force India with the field diminished by the accident on the opening lap.

I doubt any of the top teams have gotten ther sums wrong this year.

Err, a problematic Ferrari that shot up the grid at the start and still had genuine pace over the other cars in the hand of a quality driver?

btw I don't recall a diminished field in qualy where Fisi took the pole.

Let's not rewrite history please! The cars involved in the accident where down in p12-p17 not the top runners.

Do not try and "diminish" the accomplishments of genuine pace by Force India in Spa and Monza. In those two races they were the real deal.

[DexDexter]

Err, a problematic Ferrari that shot up the grid at the start and still had genuine pace over the other cars in the hand of a quality driver?

btw I don't recall a diminished field in qualy where Fisi took the pole.

Let's not rewrite history please! The cars involved in the accident where down in p12-p17 not the top runners.

Do not try and "diminish" the accomplishments of genuine pace by Force India in Spa and Monza. In those two races they were the real deal.

:up:

[F1boat]

Err, a problematic Ferrari that shot up the grid at the start and still had genuine pace over the other cars in the hand of a quality driver?

btw I don't recall a diminished field in qualy where Fisi took the pole.

Let's not rewrite history please! The cars involved in the accident where down in p12-p17 not the top runners.

Do not try and "diminish" the accomplishments of genuine pace by Force India in Spa and Monza. In those two races they were the real deal.

+1

[Sonic]

I too was miffed when I saw that the God awful Fauzy had been given the first major test for Lotus at Jerez but the more I thought about it the smarter it seemed. The team is chasing sponsors so having a home grown driver behind the wheel could generate some positive headlines, but more to the point let Fauzy find out that the front wing falls off (or whatever) and then give the T127 to a proper driver on Thursday for some serious running.

I only hope they keep one eye on the weather and avoid giving Lousy Fauzy the only dry running.

[Robinho]

possibly the best analysis i've read yet of the testing situations so far

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/02/teams-experiments-show-what-ferraris-plan-might-be/

[Saint Devote]

Err, a problematic Ferrari that shot up the grid at the start and still had genuine pace over the other cars in the hand of a quality driver?

btw I don't recall a diminished field in qualy where Fisi took the pole.

Let's not rewrite history please! The cars involved in the accident where down in p12-p17 not the top runners.

Do not try and "diminish" the accomplishments of genuine pace by Force India in Spa and Monza. In those two races they were the real deal.

The Ferrari F60 was a problematic car in 2009 - other than in the hands of Kimi at Spa and the advantage of KERS, it could not have been anywhere near the front. The Force India was at its best.

The dimnished field was after people such as Hamilton - also not in the best of Mclaren's - and Button were out of the race on the first laps.

And just general underperformance by the top drivers for the race. This is a coincidence of circumstances that also saw Heidfeld on the podium.

So unless you expect this sort of thing to occur in 2010 the probability of a Sauber podium is extremely low. Possible yes, but it is probabilities that rule.

FI did not win a podium at Monza.

[macksrallye]

So unless you expect this sort of thing to occur in 2010 the probability of a Sauber podium is extremely low. Possible yes, but it is probabilities that rule.

FI did not win a podium at Monza.

No offence but if you expect anything less from a motor race you are a fool. No motor race is ever black & white & if you have been watching F1 for as long as you say you have you would know that. Winning or even getting a decent result in a motor race is all about having a good package to start with, making the right moves at the right time and the one thing nobody has any control over... LUCK!

Having said all of this Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes & Red Bull gives themselves the best chances because they have the best people. This does not mean nobody else has the potential to get a good result.

[Saint Devote]

No offence but if you expect anything less from a motor race you are a fool. No motor race is ever black & white & if you have been watching F1 for as long as you say you have you would know that. Winning or even getting a decent result in a motor race is all about having a good package to start with, making the right moves at the right time and the one thing nobody has any control over... LUCK!

Having said all of this Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes & Red Bull gives themselves the best chances because they have the best people. This does not mean nobody else has the potential to get a good result.

No chance or luck is involved because these are very personal terms and must be considered quantitatively undefinable - you and I have different approaches.

Deviation from expected return - aka risk - for Sauber is a minimum deviation. You view it from the opposite side, a maximum deviation. Numerically 1 [33% at most] versus 3 [99%]. I am saying that at the most based on what we know they have at most a 33% probability. You are saying that basedon what we have to guess they have a 99% probability.

I would not decide to bet on a podium for Sauber in 2010, but you should, you could do well.

That is why Spa 2009 was such an anomally - the unusual coincidence of factors laid the groundwork. If the top teams were all functioning properly - as I expect in 2010 and you do not - a podium in Belguin would not have occurred for FI or even for Sauber even though they were backed by one of the world's best and biggest auto manufacturers.

[macksrallye]

I would not decide to bet on a podium for Sauber in 2010, but you should, you could do well.

I wouldn't bet on them getting a podium either, but they will be nibbling on the heals of those top guys should something happen, which I am sure will at some stage during 2010. Where... I do not know.

Chance, Luck, Deviation, whatever you want to call it is there in motorsports. For instance, a car goes off & spreads gravel/kitty litter over the track which Button (first to come across said gravel & leading at the time) hits fully committed, he in turn goes off falling back a couple of places & damaging underside of the car at the same time. With the damage the car is not performing the same & no matter how hard he tries he cannot get the time or positions back. What do you call that out of interest?

[Saint Devote]

I've heard other people say this too, but never seen any real facts or figures to back it up. It boggles my mind how you can design and build something as complex as an F1 car, and then proceed to racing with only a "minimal" amount of testing. I know a lot of "testing" is done on simulators, but surely "wheels on the ground" is the only real testing that matters. Does anyone have a link to explain the process for testing a new car?

There was an interview with the three primary engineers at Mclaren and they spoke about discovering other ways not involved in testing a car to accomplish tasks.

The Mclaren experience of 2009 it appears had a gigantic impact on the team. The lack of testing, the forced rush to get things done resulted in changed methods and greater efficiency.

The result was they could make better use of the testing time available than ever before and this they explained as needing less testing and making it less important in accomplishing the end result.

However I am sure that all teams would make full use of increased testing time.

One of my favorite parts was how the Mclaren guys explained that they had people normally never at the track literally finishing aero parts over night in the garage - and how people from the factory, the testing team and the race team all functioned in the small garage space to primarily get the Mclaren competitive.

One of the great stories of 2009 was how Mclaren did NOT give up, like Ferrari did and worked 24/7 - a great team the Woking crowd.

And of course Lewis drove his heart out - I think they all pushed each other to greater heights and this was not lost on Jenson when he received the opportunity to join Mclaren.

[Saint Devote]

I wouldn't bet on them getting a podium either, but they will be nibbling on the heals of those top guys should something happen, which I am sure will at some stage during 2010. Where... I do not know.

Chance, Luck, Deviation, whatever you want to call it is there in motorsports. For instance, a car goes off & spreads gravel/kitty litter over the track which Button (first to come across said gravel & leading at the time) hits fully committed, he in turn goes off falling back a couple of places & damaging underside of the car at the same time. With the damage the car is not performing the same & no matter how hard he tries he cannot get the time or positions back. What do you call that out of interest?

Chance or luck versus risk is not at all the same thing.

It would be a racing incident. But one cannot depend on the unexpected - because that is what you are doing. You are raising possibility above probability.

[macksrallye]

St.D... when did I put an amount/percentage to the luck involved... never. My understanding of what you are saying is that you should expect a standard race & therefore the top teams should win (very basic I know). However it is because the top teams are so adaptable & prepared for the the unexpected (racing incidents as you call them) that they are at the top.

Chance/Luck always have a part to play but don't count on it helping you, you must be as prepared as possible from every angle to be successful. I know this as I am a competitor in Aus.

[Mia 01]

I like it!

Lotus isn´t so far off.

[AndyL]

I like it!

Lotus isn´t so far off.

6.7 seconds off the pace (in the wet, with a novice driver) with 20-odd laps under their belt. A very respectable start. Especially since they've had the least amount of time to get ready. Much more impressive than certain other teams who announced they were entering F1 a year ago and still haven't even shown a picture of a completed car.

[I am evil Homer]

Solid base but they need to get closer. That said it does look nice in those colours with the yellow wheels!

[RJL25]

6.7 seconds off the pace (in the wet, with a novice driver) with 20-odd laps under their belt. A very respectable start. Especially since they've had the least amount of time to get ready. Much more impressive than certain other teams who announced they were entering F1 a year ago and still haven't even shown a picture of a completed car.

indeed, much stronger start then Virgin who I thought where far from disgracing themselfs either.

So far, the two new teams are doing alright.

Now, the sooner USF1 does the right thing and announce that they are done the sooner we can see what Steffan GP is capable of.

Also, Campos also need to get their act together, at least they have a car thanks to Dallara and I hope that if Campos folds the FIA allow Dallara to take their place and at least have the opportunity to put together a budget to run their car themselfs, would be such a waste to develop a car and actually finnish it but it never see a race track..

Something that needs to be seriously brought into question though is why the hell where USF1 and Campos awarded a birth in F1 over clearly far more serious bids from the likes of Steffan and Prodrive? The FIA, once again, proven to be complete idiots

[Saint Devote]

St.D... when did I put an amount/percentage to the luck involved... never. My understanding of what you are saying is that you should expect a standard race & therefore the top teams should win (very basic I know). However it is because the top teams are so adaptable & prepared for the the unexpected (racing incidents as you call them) that they are at the top.

Chance/Luck always have a part to play but don't count on it helping you, you must be as prepared as possible from every angle to be successful. I know this as I am a competitor in Aus.

Its because the top teams ARE the top teams, based on their performance that a high expectation is valid. These are concrete factors not assumptions.

It is this same reason that they are the most adaptable to all situations.

My argument is valid and we stand at opposite ends - its like reason versus faith, philosophically they oppose each other.

[AndyL]

Solid base but they need to get closer. That said it does look nice in those colours with the yellow wheels!

Got to love those yellow wheels!

[truefan72]

I too was miffed when I saw that the God awful Fauzy had been given the first major test for Lotus at Jerez but the more I thought about it the smarter it seemed. The team is chasing sponsors so having a home grown driver behind the wheel could generate some positive headlines, but more to the point let Fauzy find out that the front wing falls off (or whatever) and then give the T127 to a proper driver on Thursday for some serious running.

I only hope they keep one eye on the weather and avoid giving Lousy Fauzy the only dry running.

imagine fauzy has a super license and participates in testing, while USF1 have not signed a second pay driver yet and windsor said it was difficult to find US drivers capable of a super license.

btw Lotus is showing Virgin how its done. Get out there and do some laps.
Still don't understand their hesitance to actually run more than a few laps on the track.

I repeat my disappointment at Virgin's testing program to date. Not hating on them but just pointing out their lack of opportunity to take advantage of much needed on track testing. By their admission they were being very cautious. Not wanting to do laps in the rain, etc etc etc, Which i don;t understand since these cars and drivers will have to run in the rain and in Glock's case has driven in the rain. So he should be well acclimated to these conditions and surely would take care of the car. oh well.

[truefan72]

The Ferrari F60 was a problematic car in 2009 - other than in the hands of Kimi at Spa and the advantage of KERS, it could not have been anywhere near the front. The Force India was at its best.

The dimnished field was after people such as Hamilton - also not in the best of Mclaren's - and Button were out of the race on the first laps.

And just general underperformance by the top drivers for the race. This is a coincidence of circumstances that also saw Heidfeld on the podium.

So unless you expect this sort of thing to occur in 2010 the probability of a Sauber podium is extremely low. Possible yes, but it is probabilities that rule.

FI did not win a podium at Monza.

Kimi's best results in 2009
3rd - Monaco - qualified 2nd
2nd in Hungary - qualified 7th
3rd in Europe - qualified 6th
1st in belgium - qualified 6th
3rd in italy - qualified 3rd
4th in Japan -qualified 5th

massa best performances in 2009
4th in Monaco - qualified 5
3rd in Europe - qualified 6th
6st in turkey - qualified 7th
11rd in Britain - qualified 4rd
8th in Germany -qualified 3th

seems to me kimi got a good grip of the car eventualy. with some storng performances. Rhe Ferrari seems to have come to its own right around Monaco and if Massa had stayed healthy might have gotten more than 1 victory in 2009. so they were not just good in Spa or because of Kers ( which did not work in a few races for them)

I'll bet you that Sauber gets at least 2 podiums in 2010. The car is much better than you think it is. It is not a new novice car. It is the evolution from last year's BMW and pretty much has had about 10 months of development work behind it. Slight modifications were made to fit the Ferrari engine, but overall, this is pretty much a BMW chasis and design.

If BMW were still on the grid, would you say that you think their chances of a podium would be low? Because this is essentially the BMW.

Anyway. lets watch the races rather than writing off teams before the start of the season. ;)

[truefan72]

That is why Spa 2009 was such an anomally - the unusual coincidence of factors laid the groundwork. If the top teams were all functioning properly - as I expect in 2010 and you do not - a podium in Belguin would not have occurred for FI or even for Sauber even though they were backed by one of the world's best and biggest auto manufacturers.

I still fail to see where Spa was an anomaly. Force India were quick ALL weekend, They took pole. The car was better dialed in than the macs and Brawns that weekend. A bang up job by the team. And no excuses can be made for Brawn or Macs. Force India came into that weekend well prepared and did do those efforts justice. If you consider drivers being human and not performing at their peak on a given weekend while conversely labeling those that did drive well and performed admirably an anomaly then, I'm sorry, but you don't seem to have watched many F1 races with a keen eye. For that is the norm in F1.

[truefan72]

6.7 seconds off the pace (in the wet, with a novice driver) with 20-odd laps under their belt. A very respectable start. Especially since they've had the least amount of time to get ready. Much more impressive than certain other teams who announced they were entering F1 a year ago and still haven't even shown a picture of a completed car.

here here!
:up:

[truefan72]

so massa goes out on a late morning glory run of 5 laps with fumes in his tank and promptly stops on track. What was the point in that?

[F1boat]

I'm starting to worry about the Merc. So many testing days and they never impressed. Hopefully they are just being "serious" and not going for "glory runs" and not just slow.

[wedge]

I still fail to see where Spa was an anomaly. Force India were quick ALL weekend, They took pole. The car was better dialed in than the macs and Brawns that weekend. A bang up job by the team. And no excuses can be made for Brawn or Macs. Force India came into that weekend well prepared and did do those efforts justice. If you consider drivers being human and not performing at their peak on a given weekend while conversely labeling those that did drive well and performed admirably an anomaly then, I'm sorry, but you don't seem to have watched many F1 races with a keen eye. For that is the norm in F1.

And what about Monza? FI were on the money with their low DF package.


I repeat my disappointment at Virgin's testing program to date. Not hating on them but just pointing out their lack of opportunity to take advantage of much needed on track testing. By their admission they were being very cautious. Not wanting to do laps in the rain, etc etc etc, Which i don;t understand since these cars and drivers will have to run in the rain and in Glock's case has driven in the rain. So he should be well acclimated to these conditions and surely would take care of the car. oh well.

You learn nothing useful about the car in the wet apart from tyres or pracitice/improving technique. Testing is about driving consistantly. You don't do that in the wet because you're constantly adapting to the conditions, altering your driving lines, braking, turn in, etc etc

[wedge]

Interesting analysis from James Allen:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/02/teams-experiments-show-what-ferraris-plan-might-be/

[truefan72]

And what about Monza? FI were on the money with their low DF package.

yes, well pointed out.


You learn nothing useful about the car in the wet apart from tyres or pracitice/improving technique. Testing is about driving consistantly. You don't do that in the wet because you're constantly adapting to the conditions, altering your driving lines, braking, turn in, etc etc

I think if all other 10 teams see some value in running in the wets, then surely they all don't think it is useless. or a waste of time. If that were the case then we would have seen no cars on track for hours on end. Besides I think there are other things to test on the car besides its grip levels in wet conditions. If anything it might help the drivers and team get more in-tuned with operating the car whilst in some sort of racing situation.

All sI'm saying is that 10 teams can't be wrong in their testing procedures.
Even Lotus got out on the track and did some good laps. I think Fauzy just got done a 17 lap stint, and with no power steering too. Still the team felt it useful to hit the tracks. i hope there is not something fundamentally wrong with the car, but I have a sneaky suspicion that not all is right with Virgin.

[ArrowsFA1]

btw Lotus is showing Virgin how its done. Get out there and do some laps.
Still don't understand their hesitance to actually run more than a few laps on the track.
I think the fact that both teams have had issues (front wing, power steering) shows they have a lot to do, especially as they're both starting from scratch. Getting a car to the test is one thing, but getting everything to work is another, and getting it to work competitively is the next.

It'll be interesting to follow their progress over the next few days :s mokin:

[maximilian]

I think it's nonsense that the session has to stop at a particular time. The track was drying up, and finally a bunch of cars came out and were improving on their times... and then BOOM... checkered flag. Wtf? Let them run until it's dark! Completely unnecessary to close the track.

Rant over.

[DazzlaF1]

yes, well pointed out.



I think if all other 10 teams see some value in running in the wets, then surely they all don't think it is useless. or a waste of time. If that were the case then we would have seen no cars on track for hours on end. Besides I think there are other things to test on the car besides its grip levels in wet conditions. If anything it might help the drivers and team get more in-tuned with operating the car whilst in some sort of racing situation.

All sI'm saying is that 10 teams can't be wrong in their testing procedures.
Even Lotus got out on the track and did some good laps. I think Fauzy just got done a 17 lap stint, and with no power steering too. Still the team felt it useful to hit the tracks. i hope there is not something fundamentally wrong with the car, but I have a sneaky suspicion that not all is right with Virgin.
No offence mate, but at this early stage, I feel that its wrong to suggest that especially with an entire test session to go at Barcelona after this one.

Dont forget though about Virgin in the first test at Jerez, di Grassi managed to get within 3.3 seconds of the fastest time on the first proper run with the car. And also remember, weeding out the early faults with the car is what pre-season testing is about isnt it?

[truefan72]

I think it's nonsense that the session has to stop at a particular time. The track was drying up, and finally a bunch of cars came out and were improving on their times... and then BOOM... checkered flag. Wtf? Let them run until it's dark! Completely unnecessary to close the track.

Rant over.

I was just thinking the same thing!

:up:

[ArrowsFA1]

...weeding out the early faults with the car is what pre-season testing is about isnt it?
:up:

Looking at the times/laps it might be argued that it took Fauzy 76 laps to do a time just 0.6s quicker than Glock managed in just 10 laps. Then again we'd probably expect Glock to be the quicker driver. But even then we have no idea of fuel loads etc etc etc.

There are just too many variables to draw any conclusions yet.

[truefan72]

No offence mate, but at this early stage, I feel that its wrong to suggest that especially with an entire test session to go at Barcelona after this one.

Dont forget though about Virgin in the first test at Jerez, di Grassi managed to get within 3.3 seconds of the fastest time on the first proper run with the car. And also remember, weeding out the early faults with the car is what pre-season testing is about isnt it?


non taken.

but there is something obviously wrong if you can only do 10 laps in 6 hours.

What exactly are they doing in the garage?

Obviously something is not right. Because Lotus came in and hit the tracks problems et all.

I'm not hitting the panic button just yet, but getting a stronger and stronger suspicion that all might not be right with that car. Lotus probably did more laps today than Virgin in 5 test days. It is not about writing them off or sounding alarmist, but sincerely pointing out the oddity of such few laps ion track. It is obvious to me that something ain't right with the car, because if it was even 75% alright, it would be out there turning laps and posting some benchmark times.

[truefan72]

And also remember, weeding out the early faults with the car is what pre-season testing is about isnt it?
well it is only considered pre-season testing if you actually do some testing. As of right now, they spend most of theirtime in the garage rather than on the track. If the car can only do 8-10 laps before being hauled back into the garage for repairs, analysis, tuning, correction or whatever, then there is something fundamentally wrong with it right?



:up:

Looking at the times/laps it might be argued that it took Fauzy 76 laps to do a time just 0.6s quicker than Glock managed in just 10 laps. Then again we'd probably expect Glock to be the quicker driver. But even then we have no idea of fuel loads etc etc etc.

There are just too many variables to draw any conclusions yet.

Yeah, but Lotus were on the track and had no power steering, But they were turning laps, getting valuable data, and generally getting used to "actual" wind, turbulence, cornering, aero efficiency, and undulation variables, with a 76 laps worth of telemetry to analyze.

I would love to know what exactly Virgin does in the garage for hours on end.

[Saint Devote]

Kimi's best results in 2009
3rd - Monaco - qualified 2nd
2nd in Hungary - qualified 7th
3rd in Europe - qualified 6th
1st in belgium - qualified 6th
3rd in italy - qualified 3rd
4th in Japan -qualified 5th

massa best performances in 2009
4th in Monaco - qualified 5
3rd in Europe - qualified 6th
6st in turkey - qualified 7th
11rd in Britain - qualified 4rd
8th in Germany -qualified 3th

seems to me kimi got a good grip of the car eventualy. with some storng performances. Rhe Ferrari seems to have come to its own right around Monaco and if Massa had stayed healthy might have gotten more than 1 victory in 2009. so they were not just good in Spa or because of Kers ( which did not work in a few races for them)

I'll bet you that Sauber gets at least 2 podiums in 2010. The car is much better than you think it is. It is not a new novice car. It is the evolution from last year's BMW and pretty much has had about 10 months of development work behind it. Slight modifications were made to fit the Ferrari engine, but overall, this is pretty much a BMW chasis and design.

If BMW were still on the grid, would you say that you think their chances of a podium would be low? Because this is essentially the BMW.

Anyway. lets watch the races rather than writing off teams before the start of the season. ;)

Well yes we are speculating. But do not read me wrong - I will be pleased for Peter Sauber if they do well. As a fan the Sauber name goes back decades for me [BASF Saubers]. So I would love to see Sauber do well.

I just think it will be one of the toughest assignments for the drivers - even though I do like de la Rosa while Kobayashi is still an unknown entity - which Kamui will show up under the pressure? Interlagos Kamui or Yas Marina Kamui!!

So this is a bet I will happily LOSE :-]

[macksrallye]

Hey, you're all looking at this the wrong way. If the Lotus/Virgin competition continues as it is at the moment we get to see Branson make a fool of himself in one of his air hostess' uniforms. That'll be worth a laugh. :D

[RJL25]

Just think, Lotus may have done more laps in one day with their car then Virgin has in all the days they have done so far, but the Virgin car is just as quick as the Lotus...

The Virgin is clearly experiencing technical drama's hence the very low lap count so far, but their car I think is faster if they can ever get on top of those dramas.

It's gonna be an interesting battle between them though! Reminds me of the Minardi vs Jordan battles from a few years back! The rest of the world couldn't care less about them but for the boys in black and yellow, their was nothing more serious in the world then beating each other and therefore not being last!

[wedge]

I think if all other 10 teams see some value in running in the wets, then surely they all don't think it is useless. or a waste of time. If that were the case then we would have seen no cars on track for hours on end. Besides I think there are other things to test on the car besides its grip levels in wet conditions. If anything it might help the drivers and team get more in-tuned with operating the car whilst in some sort of racing situation.

All sI'm saying is that 10 teams can't be wrong in their testing procedures.
Even Lotus got out on the track and did some good laps. I think Fauzy just got done a 17 lap stint, and with no power steering too. Still the team felt it useful to hit the tracks. i hope there is not something fundamentally wrong with the car, but I have a sneaky suspicion that not all is right with Virgin.

Virgin had hydraulics problem which compromised their session yesterday.

Fauzy needs his 300km superlicence.

Lotus and Williams were doing systems check in the wet. Lotus because its straight out of the box, Williams ran with new internals - as alluded to earlier in the thread that the package around the engine is somewhat flawed.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81560

Really we had no issues at all with the car and we now need to start working on performance and see how quick it is.

This sort of valuable data is more effective in the dry.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81562
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81561

[truefan72]

so kovy crashes and Lotus don't have a spare front wing either???

It would have made sense to ship the spare one before testing begun, just in case,you know, a driver has an off in tricky wet conditions, or something, so you won't be handicapped for the rest of the day waiting for the new wing to arrive at 2am the next morning.
:|

[truefan72]

perhaps next year they can run testing in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, or anywhere that is not likely to have poor or cold weather in Early February.

[52Paddy]

Nice video. The rain was pouring down fairly badly indeed.

[truefan72]

A video from yesterday. I like the part where a Williams engineer casually takes a good old gander at the diffuser and rear of the Lotus. Cheeky devil.. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l1bZjBt_78

lol

seems like a joined a bunch of other sneaky folks back there.

good video, thanks

[Dave B]

perhaps next year they can run testing in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, or anywhere that is not likely to have poor or cold weather in Early February.
That sounds sensible, so won't happen. :p

[wedge]

so kovy crashes and Lotus don't have a spare front wing either???

It would have made sense to ship the spare one before testing begun, just in case,you know, a driver has an off in tricky wet conditions, or something, so you won't be handicapped for the rest of the day waiting for the new wing to arrive at 2am the next morning.
:|

Or you could not bother testing till you had spare parts to take with you.

Jeez, give them a break. The new teams are hardly Sauber or Williams let alone Ferrari or McLaren who should know better

[woody2goody]

Or you could not bother testing till you had spare parts to take with you.

Jeez, give them a break. The new teams are hardly Sauber or Williams let alone Ferrari or McLaren who should know better

They probably should have made sure they had at least one spare though, especially after seeing what happened to Virgin the other day.

[wedge]

They probably should have made sure they had at least one spare though, especially after seeing what happened to Virgin the other day.

What's more important? Running the new car or waste time making sure you had spares. If I was running a new team I'd go with the former.

[pettersolberg29]

De La Rosa has a very good time today bearing in mind he only did 8 laps. That Sauber looks competitive this year (although I remember saying the same about 12 months ago when Heidfeld topped testing 3 times in a row!)

[gloomyDAY]

Thanks for the video Henners!

The Lotus looks great and I really love the color combos.

I was laughing at that engineer spying on the Lotus. Reminded me of a little kid trying to look up a woman's skirt, like, "What's going on up in here?"

[DazzlaF1]

Day 2 times

1. Rubens Barrichello - Williams ................ 1m 27.145 - 98 laps
2. Vitaly Petrov - Renault ................ + 0.683 - 56 laps
3. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull ................ + 1.017 - 70 laps
4. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes ................ + 1.370 - 71 laps
5. Felipe Massa - Ferrari ................ + 1.734 - 92 laps
6. Pedro de la Rosa - Sauber ................ + 2.546 - 8 laps
7. Paul Di Resta - Force India ................ + 3.199 - 33 laps
8. Timo Glock - Virgin ................ + 3.331 - 72 laps
9. Vitantonio Liuzzi - Force India ................ + 3.521 - 24 laps
10. Lewis Hamilton - McLaren ................ + 4.488 - 57 laps
11. Sebastien Buemi - Toro Rosso ................ + 5.533 - 57 laps
12. Heikki Kovalainen - Lotus ................ + 6.409 - 30 laps

[VkmSpouge]

Pretty respectable lap times for the Virgin, nicely sandwiched between di Resta and Liuzzi.

[DazzlaF1]

A video from yesterday. I like the part where a Williams engineer casually takes a good old gander at the diffuser and rear of the Lotus. Cheeky devil.. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l1bZjBt_78

Cheeky indeed

Loved how they pushed the car past some of the rival teams as if "look at us, we're here, and we mean business"

[Mia 01]

It´s a very big task to start a new F1 entry. I admire Lotus and Virgin.
When the season ends, none of them will be last.

[DazzlaF1]

Pretty respectable lap times for the Virgin, nicely sandwiched between di Resta and Liuzzi.

I know, seems like they got yesterdays problems sorted out and got themselves a good run, albeit in the wet.

Hopefully the weather will improve over the next 2 days, im intrigued to see some dry time comparisons between the 11 teams

[Saint Devote]

What a great set of times today! The "wrong" names at the top!!!

Nice outing by Virgin.

What this of course does do is just illustrate that we have yet to see what the F1 pecking order in terms of outright speed is.

Although I am sure the teams have a good idea and I venture that Mclaren on long heavy runs is the best so far.

[Dave B]

This morning (Friday) there was talk of roads into the circuit being flooded, but now everybody seems confident that there'll be some meaningful dry running.

Uneventful so far, apart from Kovy stopping out on track and causing a red flag. From Autosport (http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/180):


08:47 There's no confirmation of what caused the Lotus to stop, but there are rumours that someone saw smoke coming from it

[f1indiablog]

Day 3 lineup
McLaren – Jenson Button
Mercedes – Michael Schumacher
Red Bull – Mark Webber
Ferrari – Fernando Alonso
Williams – Nico Hülkenberg
BMW Sauber – Kamui Kobayashi
Renault – Robert Kubica
Force India – Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso – Jaime Alguersuari
Virgin – Lucas di Grassi
Lotus–Heikki Kovalainen

http://bit.ly/aclVqu

[F1boat]

Joe is however very pro-McLaren.
P.S. Wow, Williams on the pace with McLaren, if true wow!

[Sonic]

Isn't he just, and yes its nice to see Williams showing some form. I just hope it isn't a showboating tactic they tend to use in free practise.. :)

Williams learnt their lesson about mid-season last year to stop the glory runs on Friday and concentrate on race setup - plus Rubens is too old a hand to fall into the trap of driving on fumes when he should be sorting the car. COME ON WILLIAMS!

[Dave B]

Red flag city today. First Heikki's Lotus, then di Grassi's Virgin (with "no obvious sign of damage") and now the third stoppage in 90 minutes, this time believed to be for Kobayashi.

[Dave B]

Williams learnt their lesson about mid-season last year to stop the glory runs on Friday and concentrate on race setup - plus Rubens is too old a hand to fall into the trap of driving on fumes when he should be sorting the car. COME ON WILLIAMS!
There was a suggestion, can't remember from who - might have been James Allen, that teams would use one car to simulate long runs and explore tyre wear while the other does multiple short runs on low fuel to extract the ultimate raw speed from the car.

In Williams' case it might make sense to send The Hulk out to do the donkey work while Rubens uses his experience to get the car set up.

[Saint Devote]

I quite often take what Joe Saward says with a hefty pinch of salt but other sources are beginning to draw the same conclusions as to what issues each team are facing. Red Bull are apparently dissappointed overall with the pace of their car which is abit of as let down seeing as the anticipation from fans alike was great. Newey is often portrayed as a design god, and it seems they need abit more time to adjust. Whispers suggest Ferrari is concerned about fuel consumption over a race distance but appear to be one of the fastest cars and possibly the best car for conserving its tyres. Mclaren at this stage seems to be a favourite for the season and I for one am keeping my fingers crossed on that one. All that aside, this is only testing and we'll find soon enough who is where.. :)


http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/the-latest-from-jerez/

Maybe RBR's retained rear suspension setup is interfering with the optimum channeling of air to the diffuser or causing stalling? Gary Anderson wrote at the RBR launch that the retained design would either create a "best of both worlds" or a problem.

But until Sakhir I would not believe problem stories - unless RBR start applying the paint as Mclaren did in 2009!!! Woking have incorporatrd it into their testing this season.

[driveace]

lots of rain yesterday here in Spain till early in the morning,so hope it doe's not affect Friday testing.There will thousands there today for Alonso I guess,weather forcast tomorrow looks good

[Saint Devote]

Williams learnt their lesson about mid-season last year to stop the glory runs on Friday and concentrate on race setup - plus Rubens is too old a hand to fall into the trap of driving on fumes when he should be sorting the car. COME ON WILLIAMS!

I agree - but the teams also haveto make low fuel runs too.

Another way to look at it is at the end of the test probably all the teams at some point have run in a qualifying set-up, so comparing quickest time may be a good way to gauge pace.

But Catalunya is still going to be the most accurate picture until Sakhir.

[Sonic]

There was a suggestion, can't remember from who - might have been James Allen, that teams would use one car to simulate long runs and explore tyre wear while the other does multiple short runs on low fuel to extract the ultimate raw speed from the car.

In Williams' case it might make sense to send The Hulk out to do the donkey work while Rubens uses his experience to get the car set up.

Yes, I believe that was Allen. However he was talking about Friday testing at GP's.

As St.D says you have to expect that everyone has a low fuel run at one point or another over the four day test so the fact Rubens has been up there in the mix on the combined times bodes well.

[truefan72]

RBR may well have issues and may not be on the front at the start of the season. As we saw last season the development by the likes of Mclaren and Force India showed that there is plenty of opportunity to catch up and in certain circumstances go backwards. I think RBR will still be a top 3 team come Sakhir, and in terms of pace RBR are not far off by any means. I'd certainly enjoy seeing Williams winning a race or two this year, just as long as a Mclaren driver finishes number one in the championship.. :)

Even though I am a Mclaren fan, I do hope that RBR don't have serious issues with the car. I hope they did not tinker with the car too much and outplay themselves. I think last years car was pretty solid. Then again with a much bigger tank and the necessary adjustments to the car, the newey design might not like being that heavy. I'm sure they will get it sorted out by Sahkir. Or will we see STR outperform RBR again?

[truefan72]

I quite often take what Joe Saward says with a hefty pinch of salt but other sources are beginning to draw the same conclusions as to what issues each team are facing. Red Bull are apparently dissappointed overall with the pace of their car which is abit of as let down seeing as the anticipation from fans alike was great. Newey is often portrayed as a design god, and it seems they need abit more time to adjust. Whispers suggest Ferrari is concerned about fuel consumption over a race distance but appear to be one of the fastest cars and possibly the best car for conserving its tyres. Mclaren at this stage seems to be a favourite for the season and I for one am keeping my fingers crossed on that one. All that aside, this is only testing and we'll find soon enough who is where.. :)


http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/the-latest-from-jerez/

this is year is too close to call IMO. I can't recall previous year where I was so unsure of who will do what. The variables are plenty and most of the cars seem to be on pace. I think rewarding points to the top 10 is a blessing since I think we will have races where we could see as many as 14 cars in the mix for points right up to the last laps.

[maximilian]

<RANT>
Another thing that pisses me off regularly is all these red flags! They don't stop the RACE every time someone stops on track, and they have 20+ cars running that time, so why is it necessary to stop the test session each and every time there is a car stranded? There are only a handful cars circulating at a time anyways, and surely a local yellow would do the trick, unless it's a REAL mess. Especially in dry conditions... just let them RUN, damnit! Annoying! :rolleyes:
</RANT>

[wedge]

<RANT>
Another thing that pisses me off regularly is all these red flags! They don't stop the RACE every time someone stops on track, and they have 20+ cars running that time, so why is it necessary to stop the test session each and every time there is a car stranded? There are only a handful cars circulating at a time anyways, and surely a local yellow would do the trick, unless it's a REAL mess. Especially in dry conditions... just let them RUN, damnit! Annoying! :rolleyes:
</RANT>

Because you don't get many marshalls doing test days as you would for race days.

[Dave B]

<RANT>
Another thing that pisses me off regularly is all these red flags! They don't stop the RACE every time someone stops on track, and they have 20+ cars running that time, so why is it necessary to stop the test session each and every time there is a car stranded? There are only a handful cars circulating at a time anyways, and surely a local yellow would do the trick, unless it's a REAL mess. Especially in dry conditions... just let them RUN, damnit! Annoying! :rolleyes:
</RANT>

It's a pain, but you have to remember that there's a fraction of the marshalls that you'd find during a race weekend. They can't safely clear a stranded car as quickly as we might like, and for a test session it makes no sense to expose them to danger while they're out on the track.


Edit: well and truly beaten to it! :laugh:

[maximilian]

It's a pain, but you have to remember that there's a fraction of the marshalls that you'd find during a race weekend. They can't safely clear a stranded car as quickly as we might like, and for a test session it makes no sense to expose them to danger while they're out on the track.
Yep, true of course. I think they should add the red flag stoppage time to the end of the session as they might during a soccer match (besides me thinking there should not BE an official end of the session in the first place) ;)

[SGWilko]

Yep, true of course. I think they should add the red flag stoppage time to the end of the session as they might during a soccer match (besides me thinking there should not BE an official end of the session in the first place) ;)

Need to be careful re testing - the marshalls are there for the benefit of the testers, so it is unfair not to mention down right pig headed to put them at unneccessary risk.

Besides, there is no safety car at the tests.....

[SGWilko]

this is year is too close to call IMO. I can't recall previous year where I was so unsure of who will do what. The variables are plenty and most of the cars seem to be on pace. I think rewarding points to the top 10 is a blessing since I think we will have races where we could see as many as 14 cars in the mix for points right up to the last laps.

The amount of near instant info from testing adds to the build up. Should be a classic season.

[maximilian]

Just wondering, are the track marshals "paid" for their efforts, or are they usually volunteers?

[SGWilko]

Just wondering, are the track marshals "paid" for their efforts, or are they usually volunteers?

I 'think' they are volunteers doing what they enjoy. They might get a free lunch.....

[Dave B]

Another red flag (Hulkenberg?), this time just five minutes from the end of the session. So if they restart, who's going to do a banzai low-fuel run? :D

[wedge]

Yes they are volunteers. They do it for the love of the sport. Even something so minor as a trackday requires marshalling.

[Dave B]

That's all folks... for today.


1 Webber Red Bull 1m19.299s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m20.115s +0.816
3 Button McLaren 1m20.394s +1.095
4 Hulkenberg Williams 1m21.432s +2.133
5 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.437s +2.138
6 Kubica Renault 1m21.916s +2.617
7 Sutil Force India 1m21.939s +2.640
8 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.228s +2.929
9 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m22.564s +3.265
10 Di Grassi Virgin 1m23.504s +4.205
11 Kovalainen Lotus 1m23.521s +4.222

[SGWilko]

:laugh:

Taking lap mileage into account, that makes you 18,870.703 times better than Alonso.... :p

Yeah, but I don't like to brag. ;)

[gloomyDAY]

Both Virgin and Lotus seem to be neck and neck.

Excellent testing times today. I think we're beginning to see a more accurate detail of the cars' true speed. By Barcelona we should have a good picture of the front runners, Red Bull ontop!

[DazzlaF1]

Both Virgin and Lotus seem to be neck and neck.

Excellent testing times today. I think we're beginning to see a more accurate detail of the cars' true speed. By Barcelona we should have a good picture of the front runners, Red Bull ontop!

And within a second of the next best too, that is great progress.

Here's hoping they both have a trouble free dry day of testing tomorrow, any bets that the gap between them and the fastest could be nearer to 3 seconds? I think its possible.

[Saint Devote]

RBR may well have issues and may not be on the front at the start of the season. As we saw last season the development by the likes of Mclaren and Force India showed that there is plenty of opportunity to catch up and in certain circumstances go backwards. I think RBR will still be a top 3 team come Sakhir, and in terms of pace RBR are not far off by any means. I'd certainly enjoy seeing Williams winning a race or two this year, just as long as a Mclaren driver finishes number one in the championship.. :)

Many interesting stories on the F1 grid this year, but I am sure that there is not a single true formula one fan that would not rejoice if Rubens wins a grand prix for Williams :D

Surely there would not be a dry eye in pit lane, the track and those watching on tv!

I am great fan of Frank Williams and Patrick Head.

[racepode1]

I cant cant remember a seasson when I was so exited about F1, maybe in 97 when Norberto Fontana Was in saber but this have a lot of interestings ingredients than make it more interesting for me even if lopez can't be in the grid.
I will cry like my wife with a romantic movie if Rubinho win for williams this year and that is a promise.

[Shifter]

Yes they are volunteers. They do it for the love of the sport. Even something so minor as a trackday requires marshalling.

I don't mind marshalling trackdays because, unlike actual races, they pay me in free tracktime ;) Ask any Flagger if he'd marshal an F1 race and they'll jump for it. Best seat in the house.

[6789]

Red Bull is looking good, can't wait for the first race :)

[Saint Devote]

I cant cant remember a seasson when I was so exited about F1, maybe in 97 when Norberto Fontana Was in saber but this have a lot of interestings ingredients than make it more interesting for me even if lopez can't be in the grid.
I will cry like my wife with a romantic movie if Rubinho win for williams this year and that is a promise.

:D
As a kid, I was at Kyalami in 1974 when Lole won his first grand prix.

[Sonic]

Fantastic effort by Kamui today. By all accounts he set that lap at the end of the day having not done a low fuel run in the morning when the track conditions were at their best - so 3rd fastest is brilliant! Go Kobay! :D

[Triumph]

I've been following all the live testing updates on the Autosport website, which has been good, but I'm still none the wiser as to what all these erratic times are suggesting with regard to likely competitiveness in race conditions.

Is there anyone on here who knows what they're talking about who is able to make sense of everything that has been going on in testing and make a half-decent prediction for the racing season?

I'm particularly interested in Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso. Also I'm interested in the likely race performance of the Lotus.

:)

[DazzlaF1]

OVERALL TIMES FROM 3rd TEST AT JEREZ (Not including test/reserve drivers)

* Best times set in wet weather

1. Jenson Button - McLaren .................... 1m 18.871
2. Robert Kubica - Renault .................... + 0.243
3. Kamui Kobayashi - Sauber ................ + 0.317
4. Mark Webber - Red Bull ................ + 0.428
5. Vitantonio Liuzzi - Force India ................ + 0.779
6. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes ................ + 1.190
7. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari ................ + 1.244
8. Jaime Alguersuari - Toro Rosso ................ + 2.182
9. Niko Hulkenberg - Williams ................ + 2.561
10. Michael Schumacher - Mercedes ................ + 2.566
11. Adrian Sutil - Force India ................ + 3.068
12. Timo Glock - Virgin ................ + 3.562
13. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull ................ + 3.722
14. Lewis Hamilton - McLaren ................ + 4.146
15. Felipe Massa - Ferrari ................ + 4.333
16. Sebastien Buemi - Toro Rosso ................ + 4.451
17. Pedro de la Rosa - Sauber ................ + 4.496
18. Jarno Trulli - Lotus ................ + 4.599
19. Lucas di Grassi - Virgin ................ + 4.633
20. Heikki Kovalainen - Lotus ................ + 4.650
21. Vitaly Petrov - Renault ................ + 7.366 *
22. Rubens Barrichello - Williams ................ + 8.274 *

[DazzlaF1]

I've been following all the live testing updates on the Autosport website, which has been good, but I'm still none the wiser as to what all these erratic times are suggesting with regard to likely competitiveness in race conditions.

Is there anyone on here who knows what they're talking about who is able to make sense of everything that has been going on in testing and make a half-decent prediction for the racing season?

I'm particularly interested in Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso. Also I'm interested in the likely race performance of the Lotus.

:)

There is one thing though im fairly sure of.

Either Mercedes are sandbagging or they clearly have some issues with their car. Both Rosberg and Schumacher have done 377 laps between them over the 4 days (which will likely have included low fuel runs) and they still did not get to within a second of the fastest time set by Jenson Button.

[Triumph]

I was wondering about Mercedes. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they have something up their sleeve.

[Sonic]

There is one thing though im fairly sure of.

Either Mercedes are sandbagging or they clearly have some issues with their car. Both Rosberg and Schumacher have done 377 laps between them over the 4 days (which will likely have included low fuel runs) and they still did not get to within a second of the fastest time set by Jenson Button.

I'm gonna come off the fence and predict that the car is flawed at the moment. Jenson commented that he tracked the Merc of Schu for several laps and he described the car as "twitchy" and mentioned that it kept "locking its rears". Brawn mentioned a balance issue at the first test and perhaps that remains unsolved.

As for the question of where everyone stands Triumph; if the drivers don't know, what hope have we got. The only thing that everyone seems to agree on is that the F10 is monster fast.

[Rodster]

The only thing that everyone seems to agree on is that the F10 is monster fast.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81623

Alonso today said the F10 is the best car he's ever had and that Ferrari have had no reason to show their hand which he thinks both McLaren and Mercedes GP have done.

Everyone in the paddock is very concerned over the consistency and speed on long runs of the F10.

[Triumph]

Interesting views. I wonder how the Ferrari will fare in the reliability department though. That would have a bearing on a season's performance.

[Rodster]

Interesting views. I wonder how the Ferrari will fare in the reliability department though. That would have a bearing on a season's performance.

Both Stefano Domenicali and Luca Di Montezemolo have both publicly stated prior to Alonso letting the cat out of the bag that the F10 was supremely reliable and that every failure during testing they had indications it would happen. Some think some of the Ferrari stoppages were due to testing how little fuel the car could run on.

Either way Ferrari thinks the F10 is more reliable than it's performance. While things change fast in F1 the F10 looks like a solid package. It's not the kind of car rivals want to see Alonso in. That's for sure.

[Triumph]

That should make for an interesting battle with McLaren then! Amongst other things I'm looking forward to another good battle between Lewis and Fernando.

:)

[Rodster]

That should make for an interesting battle with McLaren then! Amongst other things I'm looking forward to another good battle between Lewis and Fernando.

:)

Don't forget Massa, he's one damn good F1 driver. Lost the title to Lewis by 1 point and that's not accounting for crash-gate.

Ferrari have two very gifted drivers as well as McLaren. :)

[Saint Devote]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81623

Alonso today said the F10 is the best car he's ever had and that Ferrari have had no reason to show their hand which he thinks both McLaren and Mercedes GP have done.

Everyone in the paddock is very concerned over the consistency and speed on long runs of the F10.

On the other hand Alonso has driven rubbish since 2007, the cars have moved on since then too as well as Fernando being a rather emotional fellow.

I haven't read anywhere that there is concern about the Ferrari's long runs. Mclaren - if I recall in the daily test reports were mentioned as being the best on the long runs and Jenson is VERY happy with his long runs.

And Williams have been running their Cosworths at lower than 18,000 rpm in order to test reliability.

The reality is that at this stage we have no idea who will be the best in race configuration because nobody has anything near their race set-up yet, nor the parts that will be on the cars at Sakhir and definitely we have no idea if ANYONE has dialled in a good enough set up that will allow their drivers to run quickly throughout a race without being concerned about tyre wear.

Anderson mentioned in last week's Autosport that he thinks there is going to be trouble when all the teams have revealed their diffusers - to date only Virgin has not been shy about their car's derrier! :D

Lewis correct when he said last week that the true pecking order will only be known after Q1 at Sakhir.

[Saint Devote]

The only thing that everyone seems to agree on is that the F10 is monster fast.

"Monster fast" - then why was it not quickest this week?

The Brawn which really WAS "monster fast" was NEVER headed.

No car seems to have problems - diffuser problems - but we also do not know how anyone was running, fuel or set-up wise.

[F1boat]

St. Devote, the concern of Ferrari it seems are short runs and not long runs. And about monster fast, as Alonso said, no car is that. It seems that we are back in 2008 - cars with very close performance to each other. Mercedes runs heavy, Ferrari dominated Valencia, McLaren Jerez and Red Bull and Renault seem competitive. I doubted the dream season, but it seems to be happening!

[SGWilko]

Yes, the Ferrari is the car to beat in race trim. Heavy with fuel, while not ultimately as quick as the McLaren, it looks after the tyres better. So, what McLaren may gain in initial pace off the line, Ferrari can make up for in longevity of the tyres towards the end of the stint.

The only posible flaw in the otherwise bulletproof Ferrari is fuel economy.

Potentially, rivals can run less fuel at the start.

But testing has shown that the Ferrari is not only quick, its reliable too. The main players have a lot to fear - with a fired up Alonso and a rejuvenated, determined Massa......

Also, as alluded to earlier, qually pace is a potential issue as the car cannot work the tyres initially....

[Saint Devote]

Yes, the Ferrari is the car to beat in race trim. Heavy with fuel, while not ultimately as quick as the McLaren, it looks after the tyres better. So, what McLaren may gain in initial pace off the line, Ferrari can make up for in longevity of the tyres towards the end of the stint.

The only posible flaw in the otherwise bulletproof Ferrari is fuel economy.

Potentially, rivals can run less fuel at the start.

But testing has shown that the Ferrari is not only quick, its reliable too. The main players have a lot to fear - with a fired up Alonso and a rejuvenated, determined Massa......

Also, as alluded to earlier, qually pace is a potential issue as the car cannot work the tyres initially....

At this stage with the Catalunya test not even done I think proper evaluation of where the teams are is not possible.

Especially evaluating tyres and so on. Racing conditions are very different and I have seen nothing to indicate such superiority by any team.

The cars are not even in their final form never mind race set-up.

And again if Ferrari are so much to "fear" why did Mclaren finish another test at the top of the times? Ferrari playing games? The best game in town is to arrive at Sakhir with your car having been consistently the quickest in the tests.

On twitter that 1.18.8 that Jenson achieved after saying he feels extremely confortable in the car had the Mclaren folks extremely excited - I do not think they were expecting that!

However, Catalunya is going to be the first track that everyone can evaluate their current car compared to last - and Jense in particular is for the forst time going to be in a position to compare it to the BGP 01.

For me, Valencia and Jerez have been all about checking the car systems and settling in the drivers, getting the teams in synch. Next week in Catalunya its going to become the real deal.

Mclaren are going to, sometime during the test, put the MP4-25 into near race trim for the first time.

Adrian Newey is the don of the current aero regs - the Red Bull and the Mclaren are the most radical of the front-runners according to Gary Anderson in Autosport.

If the RB 06 really works, with its attempt to gain the best of both worlds with its rear suspension set-up different from everyone else and its diffuser, it is going to be a problem for others.

And Mclaren too with its evolved diffuser and tweaked unusual suspension at the rear.

I think that Red Bull and Mclaren are going to make the early running but Alonso in the Ferrari is going to be their best "part" - Catalunya however is going to be the best indicator yet.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Yes, the Ferrari is the car to beat in race trim. Heavy with fuel, while not ultimately as quick as the McLaren, it looks after the tyres better. So, what McLaren may gain in initial pace off the line, Ferrari can make up for in longevity of the tyres towards the end of the stint.

The only posible flaw in the otherwise bulletproof Ferrari is fuel economy.

Potentially, rivals can run less fuel at the start.

But testing has shown that the Ferrari is not only quick, its reliable too. The main players have a lot to fear - with a fired up Alonso and a rejuvenated, determined Massa......

Also, as alluded to earlier, qually pace is a potential issue as the car cannot work the tyres initially....

by your analogy, we can expect Ferrari to start sixth/seventh and come through the pack to win. (in a race or 2)

I know its Ferrari, but i dont care, that sounds like exciting racing! I hope you are correct. :D

Or Mclaren are just faster anyway. that would be nice :D

[SGWilko]

by your analogy, we can expect Ferrari to start sixth/seventh and come through the pack to win. (in a race or 2)

I know its Ferrari, but i dont care, that sounds like exciting racing! I hope you are correct. :D

Or Mclaren are just faster anyway. that would be nice :D

Not if Ferrari run multi lap qually runs to get the tyres up to speed. But then, they have to start the race on those tyres......

Catch 22

[Saint Devote]

Rubens has the Star of David painted atop his helmet - on the front since joining Williams is an advert for the energy drink associated with Williams: HELL.

I guess he has all the bases now covered? :-]

[F1boat]

Rubens has the Star of David painted atop his helmet - on the front since joining Williams is an advert for the energy drink associated with Williams: HELL.

I guess he has all the bases now covered? :-]

Hahahah!

[UltimateDanGTR]

Not if Ferrari run multi lap qually runs to get the tyres up to speed. But then, they have to start the race on those tyres......

Catch 22

well, this sounds like things are gonna get interesting then...

[Sonic]

On the other hand Alonso has driven rubbish since 2007, the cars have moved on since then too as well as Fernando being a rather emotional fellow.


Oh puuurlease! Are you trying to suggest that a double world champion does not recognise a good car when he sees it? By your reasoning, Jenson, having driven pants cars since (at least) 2006 wouldn't have realised the Brawn was a good car if it had a banner draped across it which read "best car you'll ever drive".

[Saint Devote]

Oh puuurlease! Are you trying to suggest that a double world champion does not recognise a good car when he sees it? By your reasoning, Jenson, having driven pants cars since (at least) 2006 wouldn't have realised the Brawn was a good car if it had a banner draped across it which read "best car you'll ever drive".

I said exactly what I meant. Again:
Alonso has driven rubbish since 2007, the cars have moved on since then too as well as Fernando being a rather emotional fellow.

So it WILL feel that way - it does not mean that it is to be a dominant car in 2010 that the entire grid ought to "fear".

[Saint Devote]

The Ferrari does look like a solid car indeed but while it has superior elements, I also see areas where it is inferior to some of its rivals. It had that run in Jerez where Alonso completed 47 laps on one set of tyres which was impressive to say the least. Then again track conditions are very different from track to track and the temperatures are also a component in determining how long the tyres will last. We can draw many conclusions from testing and its also a time where drivers like to play the game with the media by claiming they have the best chance etc etc. Alonso mentioned that Ferrari have yet to show their hand, and that he thought the others already had. Rubbish, Mercedes with the likes of SchM and Brawn are masters of this tactic and Mclaren also enjoy the odd game.

Valencia and Jerez were the warm ups where reliabilty, systems checks, and driver preference is ironed out and I feel Catalunya will show us a little more of who is where even though certain teams will still be holding back some of their capabilities no doubt. Ferrari are very good, but I feel Mclaren, Red Bull, and Mercedes are closer than they are letting on. In fact Mercedes were using last years diffuser and are awaiting their latest update on this. Many more updates will come from all teams involved in Barcelona, and up til now I think Mercedes and Mclaren are the ones who have given the least away.

I agree with you. And on Twitter the report said that after Jenson's 1.18.1 the team were so obviously delighted - I suspect that they did not expect that time.

Mclaren said that anything like a race set-up will only be bolted on at the Catalunya test.

And anyone claiming superiority now without seeing what the RBR 06 can do is cruising for a bruising!

Of course I would LOVE those 1.18 laps of Jense to be indicative of being the "2010 Brawn", but it is early days yet. At least we know - I think - that the top runners have all produced decent cars.

Although Gary Anderson reckons we could see political screaming when all the diffusers are exposed. This is F1 after all! :D

[F1boat]

I said exactly what I meant. Again:
Alonso has driven rubbish since 2007, the cars have moved on since then too as well as Fernando being a rather emotional fellow.

So it WILL feel that way - it does not mean that it is to be a dominant car in 2010 that the entire grid ought to "fear".

I think that even after Valencia where Ferrari dominated, Alonso said that there is no car like the 2009 Brawn GP. No obvious dominator.

[Sonic]

I said exactly what I meant. Again:
Alonso has driven rubbish since 2007, the cars have moved on since then too as well as Fernando being a rather emotional fellow.

So it WILL feel that way - it does not mean that it is to be a dominant car in 2010 that the entire grid ought to "fear".

ROFL! :D ! Two times WDC or an internet know it all, who am I gonna believe?

Your so blinded by your bromance with Jenson that you forget that after years of driving rubbish Jenson failed to recognise the Brawn as a world beater. His exact words escape me but were something along the lines of - ok guys this car isn't bad, a good base line - to which his team responded that he was over half a second up.

Whereas, Alonso went about his business quietly and after several days testing declared it to be the best car he's driven - I have to say I'm more inclined to believe him than you!

[f1indiablog]

Any predictions on the speed of the F1 cars after 2 jerez tests?
Any team sandbagging?

[Dave B]

I said exactly what I meant. Again:
Alonso has driven rubbish since 2007, the cars have moved on since then too as well as Fernando being a rather emotional fellow.

So it WILL feel that way - it does not mean that it is to be a dominant car in 2010 that the entire grid ought to "fear".

Look, I'm with you on not liking or supporting Alonso, but you have to admit that the chap knows a thing or two about Formula One cars! If he says the Ferrari is quick then I'm inclined to take him at his word rather than assume that I know better.

I hope he's wrong, naturally... :p

[Dave B]

Any predictions on the speed of the F1 cars after 2 jerez tests?
Any team sandbagging?

This is probably as sober and rational view as you'll find anywhere:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/02/decoding-jerez-button-tops-times-but-its-all-to-play-for/

[f1indiablog]

This is probably as sober and rational view as you'll find anywhere:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/02/decoding-jerez-button-tops-times-but-its-all-to-play-for/

thanks

[f1indiablog]

cool poll here
http://bit.ly/dmhnC0

[wedge]

I said exactly what I meant. Again:
Alonso has driven rubbish since 2007, the cars have moved on since then too as well as Fernando being a rather emotional fellow.

What about the last few races of 2008 when he beat Kubica to best of the rest. Winning Fuji that year was pure genius - he changed the strategy mid-race taking into account of the BMW graining problems on long stints.

As a so called fan, you seem to acknowledge success when a driver has the best car.

[SGWilko]

What about the last few races of 2008 when he beat Kubica to best of the rest. Winning Fuji that year was pure genius - he changed the strategy mid-race taking into account of the BMW graining problems on long stints.

As a so called fan, you seem to acknowledge success when a driver has the best car.

So, do we think Alonso has more involvement in strategy than he let on in the Crashgate scandal?

[DazzlaF1]

cool poll here
http://bit.ly/dmhnC0

Toro Rosso?

[SGWilko]

Thats certainly interesting. He either has a say in his own strategy or he is completely in the dark over how his strategy is managed. Unless of course he only contributes in certain races. Is that a possibilty? :)

Aha, yes - only certain races....

Those held on a Sunday only...... ;)

[Dave B]

So, do we think Alonso has more involvement in strategy than he let on in the Crashgate scandal?
My personal opinion is that he must have known. No driver at his level leaves these things entirely to the team and hops into the car without knowing the intended strategy. Not for nothing did he acquire the soubriquet "Teflonso" round these parts.

[wedge]

So, do we think Alonso has more involvement in strategy than he let on in the Crashgate scandal?

Probably, judging by previous from. I wouldn't be surprised but I think he would've taken it as pinch of salt.

He and Schumi have shown their ugly side in WDC situations. I don't think Schumi stooped low just to win a couple of races in a year. In that situation here's nothing to gain from it if they cheated and (hoped to) get away with it compared to winning WDC.

[Saint Devote]

Look, I'm with you on not liking or supporting Alonso, but you have to admit that the chap knows a thing or two about Formula One cars! If he says the Ferrari is quick then I'm inclined to take him at his word rather than assume that I know better.

I hope he's wrong, naturally... :p

Let me try again:
It has to be the best car because technology has moved on since 2006, after the F60 disaster, Ferrari began work on this car early and given that it is year two of the current regs the probability they would get it right is high, he has not sat in a good car since 2007 - and is not about to compliment a Mclaren - instead he celebrates the car and the team.

This whole argument did not revolve around Alonso's view of the F10 but that it was the car to dominate in 2010.

At this stage no team can be judged that way - and given that ALL the teams are following the way of Red Bull, if any team begins with the probability of dominating it will certainly be Mateschitz's pride and joy.

Alonso is an emotionalistic sort of person and it did him in at Mclaren. If anything, should Massa have the audacity to beat Alonso, he willself-destruct at Ferrari too.

Has Alonso matured enough?

The only team principal able to direct the Alonso energy is his good friend Flavio. Fernando has moral courage - he was the only person in F1 to not turn his back on the Italian.

I think Alonso is an intriguing mix. He is a brilliant driver - in my view the most complete in F1 today. If he can get the Ferrari to work to his satisfaction then HE is going to be the difference, not the car.

Which is why he is my pick for winning the Australian Grand Prix [another thread]

[Saint Devote]

So, do we think Alonso has more involvement in strategy than he let on in the Crashgate scandal?

And so what if he did know?

The FIA was not a court in the legal sense - the power of subpoena. It was not at all in his interest to undermine the team and definitely as he showed, he is not one to be disloyal to a good close friend like Briatore.

His actions at Mclaren demonstrate the difference - Mclaren ended up with a $100 million fine and Fernando wrecked his position there. Its known as the Dennis factor.

I could not imagine Jenson leaving Brawn for Mclaren had Dennis still been on pit wall.

[Saint Devote]

Probably, judging by previous from. I wouldn't be surprised but I think he would've taken it as pinch of salt.

He and Schumi have shown their ugly side in WDC situations. I don't think Schumi stooped low just to win a couple of races in a year. In that situation here's nothing to gain from it if they cheated and (hoped to) get away with it compared to winning WDC.

Alonso never deliberately crashed into fellow drivers as did Schumacher - to have the disgrace of being thrown out of a championship.

Schumacher recently said that he regretted what he did - I think it is unlikely to recur - well we hope so!

[Saint Devote]

The first idea of who IS the quickest will be at Catalunya - the home of the Spanish Grand Prix and the last test before the first grand prix at Sakhir.

Naturally I am totally chuffed that Jenson was the quickest of all during the eight days at Jerez and the only one to lap in the 1.18's :-]]] oogah! oogah!

But it was also a reflection of time of day, weather conditions and so on - but its still great - yeah! :-]

I am warning all the Jenson doubters, resenters and haters - underestimate the Brit at your peril.

But Catalunya will see the cars in almost race configuration and I think it can be considered as the beginning of the 2010 season - let the racing [and shennanigans] begin!

A safe season to all.

[Big Ben]

So, do we think Alonso has more involvement in strategy than he let on in the Crashgate scandal?

If we have learnt anything from this year's testing, that's definetly it. And I don't know if we think, I do sometimes when I don't have a choice.

[SGWilko]

But Catalunya will see the cars in almost race configuration and I think it can be considered as the beginning of the 2010 season - let the racing [and shennanigans] begin!

A safe season to all.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. With so many variables with the tyres, fuel consumption, fuel weights etc, I expect any team with a possible advantage to keep it well and truly hidden.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm much happier having the Scuderia going well in testing rather than buried at the bottom of the timesheets and "keeping their powder dry" or some other cliche for "we're slow but we're going to pretend that everybody else is showboating".

The F10 might not be the F2004 Mk II but it's also not going to be the F60 Mk II either. I'll take that, thank you very much.

[Saint Devote]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. With so many variables with the tyres, fuel consumption, fuel weights etc, I expect any team with a possible advantage to keep it well and truly hidden.

This is the only time the teams will have an opportunity to test on a track they race on. So aside from compiling data for the Spanish Grand Prix, it is also the first time they can compare the performance of the 2009 car to 2010.

Mclaren have said that they will run for the first time in a near race set-up during the test and of course both Jenson and Rubens will now be able to compare their new cars to the Brawn.

Sure there will be updates for Sakhir but the Catalunya circuit is a good mix of quick and slow sectors.

Hence for me this is the real start to the season.

[Saint Devote]

I'm much happier having the Scuderia going well in testing rather than buried at the bottom of the timesheets and "keeping their powder dry" or some other cliche for "we're slow but we're going to pretend that everybody else is showboating".

The F10 might not be the F2004 Mk II but it's also not going to be the F60 Mk II either. I'll take that, thank you very much.

I agree wholehearteedly.

To have the top teams languishing and top drivers in uncompetitive cars is frustrating. Alonso in the Renault for two years was such a waste.

Similarly it will be good this year if all the teams slot into their correct level and let the drivers show just how good THEY are.

[Sonic]

Let me try again:
It has to be the best car because technology has moved on since 2006, after the F60 disaster, Ferrari began work on this car early and given that it is year two of the current regs the probability they would get it right is high, he has not sat in a good car since 2007 - and is not about to compliment a Mclaren - instead he celebrates the car and the team.


That is the strangest way to look at it. That's like if Luca Badoer came out and said the F60 was the best car he'd even raced - it was, but against the competition it wasn't.

Why oh why would a double WDC come out and make such an obvious statement, he wouldnt . The only logical thing he could mean is that the F10 is the car that he believes will see him lift a 3rd title.

[Sonic]

Indeed.
I'm pretty sure Hamilton and Vettel believe their cars are capable of taking them to the title too. Its what comes with being highly motivated for an up and coming F1 season. Alonso doesn't think any differently to any of the other top 4... :)

Great isn't it! :D

[wedge]

Alonso never deliberately crashed into fellow drivers as did Schumacher - to have the disgrace of being thrown out of a championship.

What disgrace? He finished second in WDC. He cheated and still lost!

Alonso blackmailled his own boss which is far more disgraceful IMO. Not even Schumi or Senna sunk that low. ....OK maybe Senna in '93! :D

The point is, both have used devious/underhand/unsporting tactics in the past.

[wedge]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. With so many variables with the tyres, fuel consumption, fuel weights etc, I expect any team with a possible advantage to keep it well and truly hidden.

But you can't hide lap times!