Michael Schumacher will destroy Nico Rosberg next season [Archive]

Garry Walker

23rd December 2009, 18:21

F1boat

23rd December 2009, 18:29

I don't know about the percentage game, but IMO Michael will beat Nico as well.

gloomyDAY

23rd December 2009, 18:39

Any takers :D ?Hell no!

Mia 01

23rd December 2009, 18:41

At the first couple of races it will be the opposite.

airshifter

23rd December 2009, 18:46

At the first couple of races it will be the opposite.

I don't even think I would take that bet.

If his motivation was anything like in past years, MS will be a machine out on the track once again. I don't at all dislike Nico, I simply think MS raised himself to a level that not many drivers have.

Roamy

23rd December 2009, 18:46

I am a taker what is the bet

Roamy

23rd December 2009, 18:47

the only problem is TAD will comeback and the two cars will be quite different
but I will still go with the bet

Mia 01

23rd December 2009, 18:55

A bet, I like thoose. What´s about?

At the end of the season, I bet, that MS will gain moore points than Nico.

Sonic

23rd December 2009, 19:04

I'm in! But take out number 2 as it has very little to do with Mike vs Nico.

If those terms are cool what's the price? Some sort of sig forfeit? Or something more juicy?

Robinho

23rd December 2009, 21:02

I am a taker...

I knew it! ;)

keysersoze

23rd December 2009, 22:51

Sure Garry. I'll wager a billion dollars. :dozey:

wedge

24th December 2009, 01:09

Garry, how old are you and have you experienced puberty yet?

Saint Devote

24th December 2009, 01:48

It is exciting news because for the first time a driver that defined an era returns to compete in another era.

Technically in so many ways F1 has shifted tectonically from the way it was in 2006.

The difficulties are clear as we have seen over the past several seasons and with that follows experience. Schumacher has to learn all of that.

At the same time, there will be no refuelling so the smoother drivers with good simpatico will benefit.

What I do find puzzling is that Schumacher stated in the summer that it was only after driving the Ferrari that he discovered his neck injury was aggravated.

How have they tested it this time to be declared 100% fit, when he has not driven a car since?

Roamy

24th December 2009, 03:23

I knew it! ;)
yea you wish

I do like your wife though

gloomyDAY

24th December 2009, 03:43

What I do find puzzling is that Schumacher stated in the summer that it was only after driving the Ferrari that he discovered his neck injury was aggravated.

How have they tested it this time to be declared 100% fit, when he has not driven a car since?Good question.

I hope Mike's neck doesn't crap out again next year. That would be embarrassing.

I am a taker...

I knew it! ;) :rotflmao:

UltimateDanGTR

24th December 2009, 08:54

I am so certain of Schumachers superior abilities compared to Rosberg

erm, revelation of the century everyone!

I think it is fair to say Schumi is better than rosberg. whether he still has the pace is questionnable but like garry i believe he will have the pace.

Rosberg is a good prospect and a good driver IMO but he aint gonna be as good as a 7 time world champ. funnily enough...

But i hope schumi helps rosberg develop into a potential champion.

I believe both will win races next year, although schumi is more likely to fight for the world championship.

ToughMac

24th December 2009, 11:28

BeansBeansBeans

24th December 2009, 11:35

Yep, I am putting my ass on the line again...

Not really.

Michael Schumacher is one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time and he is still super-fit. He'll have no trouble whatsoever with Rosberg, who is merely good.

Saint Devote

24th December 2009, 11:47

Good question.

I hope Mike's neck doesn't crap out again next year. That would be embarrassing.

It would be - Mario Andretti had some criticism regarding the way it was handled last time.

Saint Devote

24th December 2009, 12:00

Not really.

Michael Schumacher is one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time and he is still super-fit. He'll have no trouble whatsoever with Rosberg, who is merely good.

I think it was Patrick Head who previously "reprimanded" Rosberg for being lazy. Alan Jones defines the archetypical Williams driver - hard work and no complaining or whining.

At Mercedes, with Schumacher as his teammate, Rosberg is going to HAVE to change and begin performing at his peak all the time if he does not want to destroy his career. This period could be the making of Rosberg.

Mia 01

24th December 2009, 12:29

I think it was Patrick Head who previously "reprimanded" Rosberg for being lazy. Alan Jones defines the archetypical Williams driver - hard work and no complaining or whining.

At Mercedes, with Schumacher as his teammate, Rosberg is going to HAVE to change and begin performing at his peak all the time if he does not want to destroy his career. This period could be the making of Rosberg.

Nico is a good driver, but to me he hasn´t showed the greatness of for example LH and Seb.

In the hindsight, mowing to *Brawn was a bad decision.

BeansBeansBeans

24th December 2009, 12:42

At Mercedes, with Schumacher as his teammate, Rosberg is going to HAVE to change and begin performing at his peak all the time if he does not want to destroy his career.

I don't think it will destroy his career if he's beaten by Schumacher. People are always on about people having their careers 'destroyed'. Webber's career will be destroyed if Vettel beats him (wrong), Fisichella's career will be destroyed if Kovalainen beats him (wrong)...etc, etc

Sonic

24th December 2009, 14:15

All assuming Mike opens a can of woop ass on Nico. I still think (hope) Nico will show his tallent.

jens

24th December 2009, 14:37

It's a bad situation for Rosberg really. So far there have been a lot of questionmarks about his abilities and largely because he hasn't had a proven team-mate for several years. The odd thing is that he won't get one next year either. Even if he beats MS, it will be said that he only did it because MS is well past his prime. So it's quite an interesting line-up with potentially both drivers being unproven! However, I think Schumacher will likely outrace Rosberg in wet conditions even if he isn't on top of his game. How will they fare against each other in other situations is too hard to guess at the moment.

Generally, I think in a way Rosberg may become a "new Massa". Der Kaiser races a bit alongside him and after retiring becomes a mentor. Surely 2006 taught a lot to Massa and maybe 2010 will be helpful for Rosberg in a similar way.

jens

24th December 2009, 14:42

I don't think it will destroy his career if he's beaten by Schumacher. People are always on about people having their careers 'destroyed'. Webber's career will be destroyed if Vettel beats him (wrong), Fisichella's career will be destroyed if Kovalainen beats him (wrong)...etc, etc

Depends, what can be meant by "career-destroying" - it may not necessarily mean the complete end of one's F1 career, but it may mean the end of a decent career in top teams. The best Fisichella could find after facing Kovalainen was a Force India, a real backmarker! Also Webber is unlikely to find another top drive if he gets booted from Red Bull. If Rosberg gets beaten by Schumacher and is ousted from Mercedes, are Ferrari, McLaren, RBR and teams like that really interested in signing him? I doubt it, he would likely race for the likes of Lotus instead, to where Kovalainen has been relegated.

Roamy

24th December 2009, 22:48

for Nico this is just what to Dr ordered. I can't imagine any F1 driver not wanting to go head to head with MS in equal equipment. The question here will be "equal" equipment

Saint Devote

25th December 2009, 01:21

Nico is a good driver, but to me he hasn´t showed the greatness of for example LH and Seb.

In the hindsight, mowing to *Brawn was a bad decision.

Rosberg is not that sort of driver, but he will not underperform as he showed in most of his drives in 2009.

If Schumacher performs well and Rosberg is right there too it will make his career. If He does better than Schumacher al the time he will gain from that as well.

Valve Bounce

25th December 2009, 02:13

for Nico this is just what to Dr ordered. I can't imagine any F1 driver not wanting to go head to head with MS in equal equipment. The question here will be "equal" equipment

There are several degrees of "equal", as Rubens found out. It all depends on how Ross Brawn devises his race strategies for both cars to maximise his chances of winning races.

To me, Ross is the best tactician in F1, and he is in this game to win both championships if possible, not play nice guy to Nico. If giving SchM the better strategy in order to better win a race or even score more points, Ross will not hesitate - he is ruthless in this regard as we have all seen in the past.

And you can forget all the BS about Team Orders being banned - Ross has other ways to control a race.

harsha

25th December 2009, 06:52

I'll take the bet....MS might well beat Rosberg but he's not gonna cream him

Valve Bounce

25th December 2009, 09:03

I'll take the bet....MS might well beat Rosberg but he's not gonna cream him

You'll have to re-define your bet into something concrete. Who beats who, and what you will agree to have in your sig.

harsha

25th December 2009, 09:33

the point difference between Schumacher & Nico Rosberg @ the end of 2010 will not be more than 20 points...that is if Schumi's leading Rosberg

harsha

25th December 2009, 09:33

and ofcourse,either virtual money or my ultra valuable signature space up for grabs :p :

F1boat

25th December 2009, 11:00

the point difference between Schumacher & Nico Rosberg @ the end of 2010 will not be more than 20 points...that is if Schumi's leading Rosberg

Think about the new system. 20 is too few IMO.

ozrevhead

25th December 2009, 12:44

It really depends on how the team is going to be run. Are they going to build the team around Schumacher and keep Rosberg as a clear number 2? or are they going to be given equal status? Don't discount Rosberg, given a chance the man is seriously quick and could cause a few upsets.
and if he does we will have everyone saying is because MS is past it and shouldnt of retured in the first place

Rosberg is on a hiding to nothing and will be probally made to become MS no.2 wheather he likes it or not

Valve Bounce

25th December 2009, 23:27

and if he does we will have everyone saying is because MS is past it and shouldnt of retured in the first place

Rosberg is on a hiding to nothing and will be probally made to become MS no.2 wheather he likes it or not

They will both be driving new cars. I'd love to see who gets the car flying first - my money is on SchM.

Mia 01

26th December 2009, 11:50

It was Ross who brought MS to Mercedes, he is one of his oldest friends.
Ross will keep MS warm.

Mercedes needs MS at the top for market reasons.

Poor Nico.

Malbec

26th December 2009, 14:36

What I do find puzzling is that Schumacher stated in the summer that it was only after driving the Ferrari that he discovered his neck injury was aggravated.

How have they tested it this time to be declared 100% fit, when he has not driven a car since?

I think there's a lot more to to what happened over the summer than meets the eye. Not only did Michael pull out of talks with Ferrari to replace Massa, all the other Weber managed drivers did too. I think Michael probably found the F60 difficult to drive and didn't think he'd do as well as Kimi in it and needed a suitable excuse to pull out.

Sure Michael injured his neck last season but I don't think its the kind of injury that should prevent him from driving.

ShiftingGears

26th December 2009, 14:58

I think there's a lot more to to what happened over the summer than meets the eye. Not only did Michael pull out of talks with Ferrari to replace Massa, all the other Weber managed drivers did too. I think Michael probably found the F60 difficult to drive and didn't think he'd do as well as Kimi in it and needed a suitable excuse to pull out.

Sure Michael injured his neck last season but I don't think its the kind of injury that should prevent him from driving.

Schumacher didn't drive the F60 because rival teams blocked him from doing so.

Malbec

26th December 2009, 15:01

Schumacher didn't drive the F60 because rival teams blocked him from doing so.

He drove another Ferrari though didn't he? My mistake.

Anyway from what I'd heard both he and Weber didn't believe anyone could just jump into that particular car and be competitive from the first day, something Fisi proved beautifully.

f1indiablog

26th December 2009, 15:05

I believe he will ruin his career by coming back at the age when people retire and enjoy time with family

ShiftingGears

26th December 2009, 15:14

He drove another Ferrari though didn't he? My mistake.

Yeah, although it was an F2007 with GP2 tyres. Where did you hear the information about he and Weber?

Saint Devote

27th December 2009, 02:36

Valve Bounce

27th December 2009, 03:03

I think Damon Hill recently said it best.

He sure did: "Forty one is definitely getting towards the 'over the hill' stage, but you're talking about a very unusual individual, and someone who has done nothing else but race in some form or another all his life, and he's clearly missed it," Hill said.

"He's set himself up now with a golden opportunity to add to his tally of world championships."

For once, I have to agree with this guy. :up:

ioan

27th December 2009, 10:31

He sure did: "Forty one is definitely getting towards the 'over the hill' stage, but you're talking about a very unusual individual, and someone who has done nothing else but race in some form or another all his life, and he's clearly missed it," Hill said.

"He's set himself up now with a golden opportunity to add to his tally of world championships."

For once, I have to agree with this guy. :up:

:D

markabilly

27th December 2009, 19:45

It would be - Mario Andretti had some criticism regarding the way it was handled last time.
Yeah if MS pulls a Mario and does about 8 backflips at 200 mph plus.....he will definetly have some second thoughts

But as pointed out, brawn will be running the team and the only real bet i would care to make is that Nico will be doing a repeat of the Ruben's mid season hissy fit about how pit strategy took him out of races..... :confused:

nigelred5

28th December 2009, 17:16

Well, if Nico wants to prove he's as good of a driver as he believes he is, what better benchmark, as long as Brawn and Mercedes allow him a fair competition and equal equipment. Unfortunately, that's not the history with Brawn and Schumacher.

SGWilko

28th December 2009, 17:35

Unfortunately, that's not the history with Brawn and Schumacher.

I so hope this does not happen in 2010.

This is the perfect opportunity for;

Schumacher to prove he can win fair and square against his team mate,

Ross to prove that he really can support two drivers equally.

Personally,I think the lack of testing, groved tyres, traction control and refuelling will be the thorn in MS side.

I think he will live to regret his decision.

The main folk in 2010 will be;

Lewis
Fred and Massa
Vettel

And that's about it quite frankly.

IMMVHO, of course.

maximilian

28th December 2009, 18:24

It is exciting news because for the first time a driver that defined an era returns to compete in another era.

That would have been Niki Lauda. ;)

ioan

28th December 2009, 19:30

Personally,I think the lack of testing, groved tyres, traction control and refuelling will be the thorn in MS side.

Unlike many other drivers he already experienced all the above factors during his F1 career.

Malbec

28th December 2009, 20:13

Yeah, although it was an F2007 with GP2 tyres. Where did you hear the information about he and Weber?

From a friend in the sport.

Robinho

28th December 2009, 20:37

on the subject oft he comeback and the age, if anyone is going to be fully prepared it will be Schumacher, he is likely to be fitter at this time of life than a few drivers were in the their prime perhaps only 10-15yrs ago. the raw speed and reflexes might have diminshed a little, but he'll still be as sharp tactically and i think his racing brain is second to none - i was always impressed with his capacity for feedback to the engineers during the race compared with most/all other drivers. this whole thing is intruging, and for Rosberg i think bad as he's likely to be forgoten in all the hype, and forgotten as a future talent if he doesn't really keep up or beat him

Sonic

28th December 2009, 23:06

Unlike many other drivers he already experienced all the above factors during his F1 career.

Indeed. This the man who has driven a F1 car with a clutch and gear lever for crying out loud - he's seen more change in f1 than almost anyone else and more to the point he was always quick to adapt and always blindingly fast.

Saint Devote

29th December 2009, 02:32

That would have been Niki Lauda. ;)

Niki is one of my favorite drivers and the bravest of all. I rate Schumi alongside the great Austrian driver. I saw hiim a win a quite a few of his races and always enjoyed it.

Schumacher's approach was pioneered by Lauda and in a previous thread I have stated that in a fantasy match-up, my ideal fight in a season would be between the two of them :s mokin:

It is fitting that like Lauda, Schumi returns and, like Niki could win another championship.

Garry Walker

29th December 2009, 12:06

Garry, have you experienced puberty yet?
No, and I think I can quite safely say that neither have you.

Generally, I think in a way Rosberg may become a "new Massa". Der Kaiser races a bit alongside him and after retiring becomes a mentor. Surely 2006 taught a lot to Massa and maybe 2010 will be helpful for Rosberg in a similar way.

The difference is that Massa and MS are friends, Rosberg and MS are not friends.
MS will take quite a lot of enjoyment from beating Rosberg.

I'll take the bet....MS might well beat Rosberg but he's not gonna cream him

What will we bet on? I am not really interested in sig-betting?

Unlike many other drivers he already experienced all the above factors during his F1 career.

Something which I think will help him a lot next year. Especially the ban on refuelling.

SGWilko

29th December 2009, 12:19

Schumachers main ability was to take an oversteery car, on low fuel, and drive like the clappers lap after lap.

His successful periods were when;

Refuelling was allowed
TC was present
Wide slicks and grooved tyres were in use
He could test almost endlessly

Now, we have narrower slicks, no TC and no refuelling. He can't test very much, and the cars characteristics will be vastly different to those he last drove with.

If he comes back and wipes the floor with the opposition - good luck to him.

However, I can't see him being any more than, at best, on a par with the good drivers.

nigelred5

29th December 2009, 13:45

I'll be very curious to see who stands out in this year's cars. I expect to see drivers like Alonzo, Vettel and Hamilton to shine.

Aside from his on track success, I'm wondering how much Schumacher's car developmental skills really had to do with Ross asking him to race again. I've never had the impression that Button was one that provided the team with a lot of input that helped the development of a good car. Even their success last season mostly had to do with their early jump on the field due to a technical areo advantage. The car basically went nowhere once the rest of the teams caught up. Now that in season testing is all but banned, all the feedback has to come from the race weekend from the primary driver. At both Benneton and Ferrari, the cars were constantly developed and improved throughout the season to stay ahead of or close the gap to the field with Schummi in the mix.

Man, when can I get a clutch pedal and a double H pattern gear shift back in a F1 car?

200 miles- 1 driver, one car, one set of tires and a tank of gas.. No sequential shift, no wings, no TC, no rest x 26. That sounds like good racing to me.

harsha

29th December 2009, 17:49

Think about the new system. 20 is too few IMO.

yeah,keep forgetting that they've changed the system...what say 50 points

Saint Devote

30th December 2009, 01:49

200 miles- 1 driver, one car, one set of tires and a tank of gas.. No sequential shift, no wings, no TC, no rest x 26. That sounds like good racing to me.

Of course it is, its bs free racing - but the problem is that there are people who view F1 now as "entertainment" - such as the irritating Peter Windsor.

So you see it does not "improve the show".

So we will continue to have the sad dominance of aerodynamics [its NOT a goddam aircraft] over engines [under attack] and the ridiculous requirement to change tyres - but at least the artificial refuelling nonsense has finally gone.

jas123f1

31st December 2009, 17:59

Yep, I am putting my ass on the line again and am offering a bet. Just as I have done before on this forum regarding Massa/Kimi and Kimi/Badoer (and with success every time)
I am so certain of Schumachers superior abilities compared to Rosberg that I claim that next year Schumacher will
1) outqualify Rosberg at least 13:6
2) win at least one race
3) that Rosberg will end with less than 60% of Schumachers final point tally at the end of the season

What penalty will the loser of the bet suffer? I am not decided on that, but hopefully if there are any takers on this bet, that person and I will reach somekind of an understanding regarding that.

Any takers :D ?

Hmmm ---- bet and bet.. but I believe that Nico make better than that.

But maybe yuo are right that Schumi get more points 2010 and possible win a race or even more. So much is dependning on the car.. 2011 can bee more Schumis year.. and I think Nico can also win races if the car is ok...

:s mokin:

Saint Devote

1st January 2010, 20:08

pino

1st January 2010, 21:01

Rosberg will not be destroyed by Michael, actually I think is going to be a close fight, with Nico ending the season ahead of the "great one" ;)

SGWilko

1st January 2010, 21:03

I doubt MS will be as 'hungry' as he was. He may be missing the thrill, and perhaps sat in front of the fire, making small talk with the Trouble & Strife and playing with he kids has bored him to this, but when push comes to shove, I doubt he will take the same risks as the young guns, and he will bottle out of situations as a result.

nigelred5

1st January 2010, 22:44

Does the return of a driver now 41 years old and who is expected to be successful shift the driver age back UP again?

There was a time when drivers were usually close to 30 when they entered f1 and it was not usual for drivers to be 21 in f1.

So, what if an older driver does well in GP2, will he be automatically excluded as usual if Schumacher returns and does what Brawn did in 2009?

I think drivers such as Hamilton and Vettel have their reputations on the line in an even more critical way than Schumi does. He has proven himself and nobody expects the same again.

But Hamilton and Vettel are the new generation of drivers being feted as the new Schumachers. If they are beaten by this great driver in 2010, their reputations will NEVER be the same again.

Of course Hamilton biased magazines such as Autosport will find some excuse for Hamilton and against Vettel as they did in their 2009 rubbishy ratings list.

I wish it would, at least by a few years. I think it would really weed out who are the really talented drivers if they had to show a history of actual results, rahther than so many of the silver spoon kids buyint their way into F1 with daddy's checkbook. As good as some of the current drivers like vettel and Hamilton are, ho are they really competing against at times? Relatively unproven and un-impressive ride buyers

Saint Devote

1st January 2010, 23:54

I wish it would, at least by a few years. I think it would really weed out who are the really talented drivers if they had to show a history of actual results, rahther than so many of the silver spoon kids buyint their way into F1 with daddy's checkbook. As good as some of the current drivers like vettel and Hamilton are, ho are they really competing against at times? Relatively unproven and un-impressive ride buyers

Which is why in fact Formula One needs Schumacher to return as well.

ioan

3rd January 2010, 19:40

F1boat

4th January 2010, 07:45

I believe that racing superbikes was a bigger risk than racing F1 cars so IMO he is not someone who will not take the risks when needed.

And in fis final years, he was already a Daddy.

Valve Bounce

4th January 2010, 08:54

And in fis final years, he was already a Daddy.

How do you know that Bunsen isn't? :p :

Mia 01

4th January 2010, 13:11

Ross, Haug and Mercedes will do the job for MS.

jens

5th January 2010, 13:39

Does the return of a driver now 41 years old and who is expected to be successful shift the driver age back UP again?

Schumacher's comeback is certainly an interesting experiment and if he does well, his success would indirectly bode well to the likes of Barrichello, Trulli, etc, as well, who are looking to extend their careers, by showing that driver's performance doesn't necessarily deteriorate in such age.

What makes predicting difficult is lack of evidence about how well can 40+ drivers possibly perform in F1. So far teams have wanted to play safe in this respect - usually drivers have been kicked out of F1 at latest by the age of 37-38 and we have very little information, how well could an F1 driver possibly perform in his 40's in the modern era, except Mansell's struggled comeback, which also dates back quite some time already. Well, going a bit further back, we can find an example in Laffite, who at the age of 42 was actually performing quite respectably by finishing the 1986 season 8th in WDC despite missing almost half a season.

Mark

5th January 2010, 13:50

What makes predicting difficult is lack of evidence about how well can 40+ drivers possibly perform in F1. So far teams have wanted to play safe in this respect - usually drivers have been kicked out of F1 at latest by the age of 37-38 and we have very little information, how well could an F1 driver possibly perform in his 40's in the modern era, except Mansell's struggled comeback, which also dates back quite some time already. Well, going a bit further back, we can find an example in Laffite, who at the age of 42 was actually performing quite respectably by finishing the 1986 season 8th in WDC despite missing almost half a season.

But remember here we are talking about Schumacher. The most and arguably best F1 driver we've ever seen. Schumi off his best in his early 40's will still be more than a match for the majority of the drivers on the grid.

jens

5th January 2010, 14:30

But remember here we are talking about Schumacher. The most and arguably best F1 driver we've ever seen. Schumi off his best in his early 40's will still be more than a match for the majority of the drivers on the grid.

But even that is a speculation at the moment. It's just a guess, how much has his form dropped, if at all. Or how competitive is he going to be against others. Schumacher or not.

ioan

5th January 2010, 20:56

But even that is a speculation at the moment.

You claiming that MS doing well will help Trulli is a speculation too as everyone knows that Trulli wasn't half as good as MS as a driver back in the day.

jens

5th January 2010, 21:20

You claiming that MS doing well will help Trulli is a speculation too as everyone knows that Trulli wasn't half as good as MS as a driver back in the day.

Surely anyone's longevity in F1 will mostly depend on performance. But by these thoughts I meant the general attitude towards experienced drivers. I mean throughout years there have been several blokes, who have been saying that all 30+ drivers are past their prime, too old and should make room for youngsters, regardless of performance. If a 40+ driver manages to shine, Schumacher or not, it may change a general perception a little bit friendlier towards "old hands" in what has been quite youth-oriented F1 recently. Also it would take a bit of a spotlight away from all these 30+ drivers if a 41-y-o driver is participating in F1 - suddenly they would not seem "that old" at all. But sure it won't be easy for Schumacher to avoid accusations of being "past-his-prime-and-should-retire" either, which actually existed already back in 2005-2006. Older drivers are an easy target for getting criticized as being "over the hill" after any less impressive performance.

5th January 2010, 21:53

Nico will have to up his game, off-track.

Since his debut, he has been lucky/unlucky (depending on your point of view) not to be teamed up with a team-mate willing to use garage politics to gain an advantage. Webber is a straight-forward Aussie, Wurz was past caring that much and Nakajima only had the Toyota engine to bargain with, certainly not results.

Michael is in a different league when it comes to out-of-the-car stuff.

ioan

5th January 2010, 22:18

Surely anyone's longevity in F1 will mostly depend on performance. But by these thoughts I meant the general attitude towards experienced drivers. I mean throughout years there have been several blokes, who have been saying that all 30+ drivers are past their prime, too old and should make room for youngsters, regardless of performance. If a 40+ driver manages to shine, Schumacher or not, it may change a general perception a little bit friendlier towards "old hands" in what has been quite youth-oriented F1 recently. Also it would take a bit of a spotlight away from all these 30+ drivers if a 41-y-o driver is participating in F1 - suddenly they would not seem "that old" at all. But sure it won't be easy for Schumacher to avoid accusations of being "past-his-prime-and-should-retire" either, which actually existed already back in 2005-2006. Older drivers are an easy target for getting criticized as being "over the hill" after any less impressive performance.

My point is that Trulli's problem is his race craft not hi speed.
Last season Rubens already proved that being older isn't a handicap. To be honest MS coming back means one less seat for old and slow pokes.

Saint Devote

6th January 2010, 04:32

Surely anyone's longevity in F1 will mostly depend on performance. But by these thoughts I meant the general attitude towards experienced drivers. I mean throughout years there have been several blokes, who have been saying that all 30+ drivers are past their prime, too old and should make room for youngsters, regardless of performance. If a 40+ driver manages to shine, Schumacher or not, it may change a general perception a little bit friendlier towards "old hands" in what has been quite youth-oriented F1 recently. Also it would take a bit of a spotlight away from all these 30+ drivers if a 41-y-o driver is participating in F1 - suddenly they would not seem "that old" at all. But sure it won't be easy for Schumacher to avoid accusations of being "past-his-prime-and-should-retire" either, which actually existed already back in 2005-2006. Older drivers are an easy target for getting criticized as being "over the hill" after any less impressive performance.

This is also a judgment on di Montezemolo. It was he following the performance of Schumacher in 2005 and 2006 that pushed the German out and hired Kimi in his place.

Todt was dead set against it and the issue created the argument between the two of them.

Question is: was Schumacher's time over or not?

Also how good is Schumacher? The cars of today are far more difficult to drive and favor any driver coincidentally rather than in schuamcher's day where he had tyres designed for his style.

Lots of questions to be answered this year.

Saint Devote

6th January 2010, 04:39

You play chess with a good chess player - your game improves.

Nico is quick and I do think that he will be competitive with Schumacher and at this stage I expect him to outqualify him - it is in racecraft that Schumi is excellent especially with Brawn out there.

But qualifying is extremely iimportant and overtaking is difficult - racing today is a lot like Monte Carlo and without refuelling there is far less advantage in pit stops.

But if you look at the DTM races, the mechanics [tyre stops] have become far more important in races.

Expect f1 pit stop action from stop to leaving the pit to be around as quick as less than 3 seconds.

Valve Bounce

6th January 2010, 08:49

wedge

19th January 2010, 01:18

I'm just wondering whether we will see his miserable game face again.

So much better when Schumi had nothing to worry about and showed his 'true' self in recent years.

Mia 01

19th January 2010, 09:27

According what I´ve read it´s set that MS shall be WDC in one of the following three years.

Nico have to wait for his turn, but I doubt it will come.

555-04Q2

19th January 2010, 10:42

If Schuey dominates the team and then finally retires for Ross to turn around and say "fancy a go now Nico?", I would expect him to walk and it'll be yet another teammate of Michaels to have been supressed..

Schumi won more WDC and CC than any other driver in history because he was such a dominant driver. He dominated his teamates through sheer speed and determination and moulded teams around him to achieve this.

If young Nico wants to win WDC and CC for his team, he needs to do the same. It doesnt matter who your teamate is, just beat him and help make your team a winning team that can win both championships.

Mark

19th January 2010, 10:44

Indeed. I'd wager that, if Schumi had not left Ferrari, Massa (accident excluded) would have gotten the better of him last year.

555-04Q2

19th January 2010, 16:04

Its a little difficult for Nico to go to this new team and dominate when there are a number of factors that stand in his way. Schuey is extremely successfull and happens to be on best friend terms with Ross Brawn. Thats a difficult bond to break IMO, and Nico will have his work cut out if he wants to appear dominant over Michael Schumacher. Nobody has done it in the past and I can't imagine him letting an unproven driver like Rosberg do it now.

Schuey isn't an emotional and often irrational character like Alonso was when he headed to Mclaren, and I think he'll expect number one status, and have the professional ability to make his mark. It'll be a good test of Nico's will, to make an impact in a team with the most successfull driver in history IMO.. :)

True, but the Shoe didnt land with a great team around him overnight. He built it up over the years while at Benetton and then Ferrari by making people believe in him and delivering on the track. Everything in life starts from small beginnings before becoming something great.

Nico is young and has the talent to do the same, if he can prove himself on the track and in the eyes of those around him. Most driven people gravitate towards successfull teams/people as they want to be part of that success too.

It wont be easy though with the worlds best ever driver sitting on the other side of the garage.

Mia 01

19th January 2010, 19:05

It wont be easy for Nico in neither way. It´s a fact!

truefan72

19th January 2010, 23:52

I actually think that Nico will have the upper hand initially, he will probably outqualify MSC in the first few races and then the team will be in an interesting situation. I think MSC is a legend and pretty fast, I am pretty sure it will take a few race weekends to get back into form. The obvious advantage I give MSC is in handling a heavy car with no refueling, but in qualy, I think Nico will have the upper hand. By mid season MSC will be back in form and challenging fir wins, but until then I give Nico the upper hand. MSC is a different man today and I am sure that single mindedness, complete focus on racing, all else be damned, youthful vigor and supreme belief in self and arrogance is not as abundant as it was. There will be lots of things on his mind, family, press, the other drivers etc, and of course, his own legacy. These things affect you no matter who you are and it will take time to adjust to this new reality.

I am glad he is back, although I never liked him, and hope that he will be up to pace quickly, but to me it is more likely that he will struggle initially against Nico, and some of his "classic" moves on track will not be given the same kinda appeasement from both the media and the stewards.

F1boat

20th January 2010, 09:35

I think and hope that Michael will stun and surprise us. I think that he will beat Nico right from the start, but IMO Nico is not that special, solid, but not spectacular.

Mark

20th January 2010, 09:45

I think and hope that Michael will stun and surprise us. I think that he will beat Nico right from the start, but IMO Nico is not that special, solid, but not spectacular.

Certainly with the heavy car issue. MS has an almost unique ability to be able to get the best out of any particular car, no matter what the weight, setup, or tyre condition, so if anyone was able to handle the heavy fuel load issue well initially I'd say it would be Schumacher.

Mark

20th January 2010, 09:48

pino

20th January 2010, 10:34

I hope Nico beats Michael by the end of the season. Schuey is a legend and has had his chance, but for me its time for the younger guys to prove their ability.

Same here :up:

F1boat

20th January 2010, 11:08

I hope Nico beats Michael by the end of the season. Schuey is a legend and has had his chance, but for me its time for the younger guys to prove their ability.

Honestly, I can't understand the fascination with young drivers. If they are good, cool, but I like old drivers as well. See Le Mans racing, year after year we have veterans like McNish and Kristensen dominate and honestly I am not bored. When de Ferran returned in ALMS I cheered for him, although I was happy for another old fox like David Brabham as well. And now we have the opportunity to watch one of the greatest drivers in history, one who was a hero and a villain and who rewrote the record books. I simply can't prefer some boy over a legend.

CNR

20th January 2010, 11:33

Schumacher asks for number swap (http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=39791)

While Schumacher did sport the number 1 for much of his F1 career he also sported 19 and 5 at Benetton, and 3 and 5 at Ferrari

Dave B

20th January 2010, 11:48

Same here :up:
So when will you be telling Trulli that it's time to let a younger guy have a go? :p

pino

20th January 2010, 12:42

So when will you be telling Trulli that it's time to let a younger guy have a go? :p

Not until he's able to bring a car on 1st row :p :

Hondo

20th January 2010, 14:11

I hope Nico beats Michael by the end of the season. Schuey is a legend and has had his chance, but for me its time for the younger guys to prove their abilities.

And the best way to do that is to beat the old git at his own game. If they can't do that, then they have proven their abilities, or lack thereof.

christophulus

20th January 2010, 16:12

I have to say, I've never liked Schumacher, ever since I started watching F1 in 1994 he has been the enemy of my favourite drivers, and that didn't change one bit until his 'retirement'

But I've surprised myself in that I'm very much looking forward to his return this year and I hope he does well, although I wouldn't go as far as to say I'd like him to win the championship!

I agree, he's always been the "villain" in my eyes, but I'm really looking forward to his return!

I think Rosberg will be close to Schumacher come the end of the season and could even get his first win, but I can't see Mercedes/Brawn winning both titles again this year.

F1boat

20th January 2010, 20:14

Well in my view the young drivers of today are tomorrows veterans. If they aren't given the opportunity to suceed in their youth, then they aren't given the chance when they get to Michaels age.. :)

They should earn the opportunity IMO.

jens

21st January 2010, 00:50

We really shouldn't create a conflict between different generations of F1 drivers here. Throughout years there have been talks, how "oldies should make room for youngsters and not block their entrance into F1", etc. In the end on most occasions the best drivers are hired to race for teams, both old and young. If we have drivers participating from both groups, it enriches the field.

I don't even have a problem with de la Rosa's comeback. In a way it's going to be interesting to see it - he may not be the most spectacular driver on the grid, but it's still interesting, what a driver with his background and age can deliver. With Schumacher there is probably more excitement in that matter. But to be frank, I still would have preferred Heidfeld to get that Mercedes seat for a change - to finally see, what he can deliver in a top team. But it looks like we are never going to get an answer to that...

CNR

21st January 2010, 13:01

http://www.crash.net/tailenders/video/156157/1/the_real_reason_mercedes_signed_schumacher.html

Triumph

22nd January 2010, 02:33

F1boat

22nd January 2010, 07:52

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Michael Schumacher wins the title this year, and I would be pleased to see it happen.

If it doesn't work out for Lewis or Jenson this year then I hope Michael can win it - or maybe Sebastian Vettel if the other three aren't in a position to do it!

It will be a nice season for you, as you support four of the top favorites... same here BTW :) I support Michael, Jenson and the Ferrari boys!

Triumph

22nd January 2010, 14:39

It will be a nice season for you, as you support four of the top favorites... same here BTW :) I support Michael, Jenson and the Ferrari boys!

Haha, yes! I always support the drivers of my home country anyway, but I was a long term supporter of Michael Schumacher, so he has gone back on my favourites list. In the absence of Michael Schumacher I adopted Sebastian Vettel as a Schumacher replacement for the future, so I had to give him a mention too.

If I had to choose just one driver to support it would be Lewis. :)

Big Ben

22nd January 2010, 17:29

Destroy? Are really Mercedes going to let Ross and Michelle go nuts again?

Giuseppe F1

11th February 2010, 15:22

Schuey may also destroy some other drivers, going by these cartoons! ;)

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/attachments/wheels-fan-clubs/12106-formula-1-season-2010-the_comeback-1-.jpg

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/attachments/wheels-fan-clubs/12107-formula-1-season-2010-schumi_lewis_fernando-1-.jpg

Saint Devote

13th February 2010, 02:04

Very funny :p

I think the heights are fairly accurate.

No they are not - in reality Jenson would knock all their blocks off!! :D

If Massa is used as a benchmark, then Schumi is going to find things very tough indeed with all the drivers that have risen to the top since his 2006 departure.

But he is also up to it and I recall that magnificent pass at Interlagos on Kimi - I think Schumi is going to be extra motivated to beat Alonso and demonstrate how wrong Ferrari were in 2006 and still are.

The 2010 season is something that does not come along in racing: so many excellent drivers in competitive cars AND the top driver who defined an era returning to compete in a different era where the rules have changed, turning F1 upside down.

If Schumi wins the championship it will in my view crown him as the greatest driver ever.

I do wonder if Nico realizes what he may be up against. The question remains - does he have mentally what it takes to compete against Schumi because this will define his standing in F1.

I do wish Nico Rosberg the best. He is the son of Keke, he has his father's racing attitude [remember Suzuka 2009] and he is quick. Choosing between the two Merc teammates I would like Nico to win. Schumi has had his time and I support the new generation of drivers - its their time.

OutRun

14th March 2010, 20:37

Maybe next time? or next season?

ioan

14th March 2010, 20:43

Maybe next time? or next season?

Give it a couple more races, for now he is only 0.1 second/lap behind in race pace and improving fast.

Sonic

14th March 2010, 21:00

Give it a couple more races, for now he is only 0.1 second/lap behind in race pace and improving fast.

Indeed. He started the weekend 0.5 off, by quali he was 0.3 and by the race followed in the wheel tracks of Nico without too much trouble.

Obviously from my POV I'm pleased Nico has "won" the first round but the battle has just begun and it will be fascinating to see how the relationship develops.

It seems that a great number of people are enjoying the fact MS is behind at the moment and that's just, well, a bit sad in my eyes.

truefan72

14th March 2010, 21:07

Indeed. He started the weekend 0.5 off, by quali he was 0.3 and by the race followed in the wheel tracks of Nico without too much trouble.

Obviously from my POV I'm pleased Nico has "won" the first round but the battle has just begun and it will be fascinating to see how the relationship develops.

It seems that a great number of people are enjoying the fact MS is behind at the moment and that's just, well, a bit sad in my eyes.

I think Nico actually pulled away from him after the pit stops bunched them up so it is clear that Nico is faster than schumi at the moment. But it is good to see him mixing it up with the likes of Button and webber, showing both that he still got some spark left. So I congratulate him on a good first GP back after 3 years and IMO did better than I expected. Nico will have his number for at least the first half of the season. MSC will still have some great results and I still predict a race win.

jens

15th March 2010, 18:02

Considering, how much Michael was struggling against Rosberg in practice and qualifying, he should be satisfied with how close he finished to Nico in the end. Are we talking about possibly the most exciting team-mate battle in the Top4 teams?

OutRun

28th March 2010, 19:06

Rosberg a solid 5th and the myth of the rain meister destroyed as backmarkers play with old man Schumacher.

UltimateDanGTR

28th March 2010, 19:08

Michael is certainly not doing what the thread title suggests he would at the moment.

But Things can easily change over the season, and thus why I think this in team battle is going to be one of the most interesting this year.

F1boat

28th March 2010, 19:22

Rosberg a solid 5th and the myth of the rain meister destroyed as backmarkers play with old man Schumacher.

There was very little rain today, Michael still rose from last to 10th and got a point, managed to overtook two guys in dry conditions and when compare him to what Fernando did do not forget that the Ferrari is a superior machine to the Mercedes.

woody2goody

28th March 2010, 19:24

Both men drove well today, especially considering Schumacher's race was ruined at the first corner.

Rosberg improved as the race went on, and picked up a couple of spots he wouldn't have been expecting.

woody2goody

28th March 2010, 19:26

At the first couple of races it will be the opposite.

Almost prophetic that :D

Robinho

28th March 2010, 19:33

Mia 01

28th March 2010, 23:06

Is this MS??!

At least he shall perform just a little bit of Alonsos performance.

I don´t recognize this new man in the Mercedes team.

F1boat

28th March 2010, 23:08

Is this MS??!

At least he shall perform just a little bit of Alonsos performance.

I don´t recognize this new man in the Mercedes team.

The Merc GP is weaker than the Ferrari and maybe was not working properly after the crash at the start. But even if Michael is past it, kudos for the guts to come and race... this makes me respect him even more.

Mia 01

28th March 2010, 23:17

The Merc GP is weaker than the Ferrari and maybe was not working properly after the crash at the start. But even if Michael is past it, kudos for the guts to come and race... this makes me respect him even more.

I respect him to.

My fear is that he will make a foul of himself. If so, it´s not worth it.

airshifter

29th March 2010, 06:03

i think we missed out on seeing MS impressing today. he was up to 4th at the 1st corner and i think might have made the move on Alonso stick if he wasn't clouted as he spun. that wrecked his wing and 1st lap, and also did some other damage which slowed him later

whilst it was a bit wet he would have been equal to anyone out there and during the changing times of the race i reckon he would have reacted as well or better than anyone - he could well have been in the hunt.

i think however, Rosberg will own him in Malaysia - he was very quick there last year.

I think he was also double stacked during the change to dry tires. He entered the pits near mid pack, and left the pits almost at the rear. Combined with Alonso screwing him on the first corner, he essentially had to come from the back of the pack twice, but finished in the points.

555-04Q2

29th March 2010, 07:43

Combined with Alonso screwing him on the first corner,

I think that award goes to Bunsen for hitting Alonso who then had no say in hitting Schumi.

Dzeidzei

29th March 2010, 08:12

I think that award goes to Bunsen for hitting Alonso who then had no say in hitting Schumi.

Jenson gave Alonso room, but he decided to close the door. Alonso is clearly the one to blame here.

But when was the last time MS lost 2-in-a-row to his teammate. I think its fair to say that his time is gone now. Nico seems like the more solid, flawless driver at the moment. At least he doesnt end up fighting Alguwhatevers in the race.

F1boat

29th March 2010, 08:19

Jenson gave Alonso room, but he decided to close the door. Alonso is clearly the one to blame here.

But when was the last time MS lost 2-in-a-row to his teammate. I think its fair to say that his time is gone now. Nico seems like the more solid, flawless driver at the moment. At least he doesnt end up fighting Alguwhatevers in the race.

This is very unfair. Nico was not caught in a crash. I know that you Finn fans likely hate the guy, but to judge him after two races is really low class. And you know - even if he fails to improve he still has his many wins and championship and so far Nico has nothing.

Dzeidzei

29th March 2010, 08:52

And you know - even if he fails to improve he still has his many wins and championship and so far Nico has nothing.

I expect to hear this a lot. He is and will forever be the man of 7 wdc´s, but thats it. No new titles heading to Kerpen.

The reason why he´s hated are obvious to anyone with a slight understanding of his ethics and to anyone who´s willing to take his head off his ass. That said, even I do appreciate his achievements, as you see.

F1boat

29th March 2010, 11:13

I think Fernando and Michael did comparable jobs in yesterdays' race. Lets not forget Alonso was in 22nd place after the first corner incident and worked his way back to 4th by the end of the race. Both FA and MS worked their way through the field as far as the performance of the car would allow. FA got as far as Massa but they both have the same machinery at their deposal. :)

Well, I have to say that I was a bit disappointed when Michael stayed behind Jaime for as long as he did, but as I said, it is normal for him to be a little bit rusty in wheel to wheel battles. Actually I think that he would have beaten Rosberg, if not the crash, but who knows. As I said in the end Michael has his records and even if he fails miserably he can say that he was brave enough to try himself after his prime. While other drivers can continue to impress with solid fifth place finishes...

555-04Q2

29th March 2010, 11:46

I expect to hear this a lot. He is and will forever be the man of 7 wdc´s, but thats it. No new titles heading to Kerpen.

The reason why he´s hated are obvious to anyone with a slight understanding of his ethics and to anyone who´s willing to take his head off his ass. That said, even I do appreciate his achievements, as you see.

You forget to mention teh following:

1. MS finished right behind NR in the first race, after an absence of 3 years from F1. Pretty good if you ask me.

2. MS, an old man now, had a fantastic start and was up to 4th place in the first corner (ahead of the much lauded and younger NR) before Bunsen decided to hit Alonso who took MS off the track and damaged his car, race for him over after that.

3. Hate him if you want, but you can't deny his history, crazy records and importance to the circus that is F1.

jens

29th March 2010, 11:51

Nobody is denying Schumacher's history, but this topic is about what is going on at the moment.

Dzeidzei

29th March 2010, 11:52

You forget to mention teh following:

1. MS finished right behind NR in the first race, after an absence of 3 years from F1. Pretty good if you ask me.

2. MS, an old man now, had a fantastic start and was up to 4th place in the first corner (ahead of the much lauded and younger NR) before Bunsen decided to hit Alonso who took MS off the track and damaged his car, race for him over after that.

3. Hate him if you want, but you can't deny his history, crazy records and importance to the circus that is F1.

1. I expect him to be there, right behind NR all season long. Its pretty good, but not godlike.

2. Fair enough, expect that Bunsen cannot be blamed for that incident. It was a racing accident involving mostly a senioer citizen and Ferrari´s number one driver.

3. Like I said in the previous post, I do appreciate his record. His importance to the circus is vanishing as we speak. Soon there wont be much left.

F1boat

29th March 2010, 12:42

1. I expect him to be there, right behind NR all season long. Its pretty good, but not godlike.

2. Fair enough, expect that Bunsen cannot be blamed for that incident. It was a racing accident involving mostly a senioer citizen and Ferrari´s number one driver.

3. Like I said in the previous post, I do appreciate his record. His importance to the circus is vanishing as we speak. Soon there wont be much left.

Everybody remembers Michael Jordan for the Chicago Bulls years not the return he tried (I can't even remember with which team). Should Michael fail, only the haters will remember that at 41 he was finally off the godlike mode LOL. But even so I still cheer him for the guts to come and race.

Dzeidzei

29th March 2010, 13:29

Everybody remembers Michael Jordan for the Chicago Bulls years not the return he tried (I can't even remember with which team). Should Michael fail, only the haters will remember that at 41 he was finally off the godlike mode LOL. But even so I still cheer him for the guts to come and race.

The fact is that if Nico and Michael had switched places in the first 2 places (ie. MSC finishing 6th and 5th) the MS fans would be screaming "The god is back". Now they are confused and rightfully so. Its a situation they are not used to, but slowly the reality hits in. And the only logical outcome is to praise Michaels achievements in the past.

I agree he showed guts to come back. I also say that he needs to show something more quickly or it will do some damage to his reputation. MS showing up in Bahrain was excellent pr for formula 1. MS fighting for 10th place in Canada has a lot less value. Surely even you can see that?

Personally Id love to see the Merc higher up there, but with the current regs its hard to gain a lot of time on track.

Garry Walker

29th March 2010, 13:31

2. MS, an old man now, had a fantastic start and was up to 4th place in the first corner (ahead of the much lauded and younger NR) before Bunsen decided to hit Alonso who took MS off the track and damaged his car, race for him over after that.

The crash was more alonsos than buttons fault.

Daika

29th March 2010, 13:50

The fact is that if Nico and Michael had switched places in the first 2 places (ie. MSC finishing 6th and 5th) the MS fans would be screaming "The god is back". Now they are confused and rightfully so. Its a situation they are not used to, but slowly the reality hits in. And the only logical outcome is to praise Michaels achievements in the past.

I agree he showed guts to come back. I also say that he needs to show something more quickly or it will do some damage to his reputation. MS showing up in Bahrain was excellent pr for formula 1. MS fighting for 10th place in Canada has a lot less value. Surely even you can see that?

Personally Id love to see the Merc higher up there, but with the current regs its hard to gain a lot of time on track.

I'm dissapointed with his 2nd race. Afterall he was stuck(unable to past while others could) behind a Toro Roso!!

But then again Formula 1 have a very very very short memory. Which basicly means we only remember the last race. Schumacher wins and he is on top of the world and nobody cares he was stuck behind that driver with a name that is difficult to type and i can't be bother to copy and paste it. Afterall how many scandels "gates"do we have and Formula 1 still comes out on top.

Big Ben

29th March 2010, 13:54

When can we change the name of this thread into something more appropriate? My suggestion: " Michael Schumacher will destroy Nico Rosberg next season... NOT!"

ArrowsFA1

29th March 2010, 14:03

According to the Daily Mirror "Schu can't keep pace" :p

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2010/03/29/schu-can-t-keep-pace-115875-22145877/

Daika

29th March 2010, 14:11

F1boat

29th March 2010, 15:06

The scary part is that if it weren't for Webber last attempt. Rosberg would be number 7. Not much better than Schumacher who went to the back after Alsono hit him. I appears that Mercedes is good for places 5/6/7.

Yes. The Mercedes seems to be off pace. STR is not that far behind. And who knows, maybe Jaime had a good race, like Bernoldi in Monte Carlo 2001.

F1boat

29th March 2010, 15:10

It seems that some people have waited years and years for this - Michael to be beaten like their Damon was in 1999... how pathetic.

Dave B

29th March 2010, 15:18

For my case I'm actually slightly disappointed - but tempering this with recognising we've only seen two races.

I'm on record (search it if you want) as being extremely excited about the return of MS, and saying that I believe he's still capable of winning races.

If my comments about his lack of pace thus far come across as gloating then nothing could be further from the truth. I'm slightly confused and disappointed, as I say, but keep reminding myself that it's early days.

Retro Formula 1

29th March 2010, 15:47

It seems that some people have waited years and years for this - Michael to be beaten like their Damon was in 1999... how pathetic.

I find it quite amusing this sense of injustice some people experience because Schumacher is struggling. There seems to be this paranoia that everyone is waiting for Schumacher to fail which isn't confirmed by the posts on here.

Most people were excited about the Champions return even if we don't support the driver because it promised to be a fascinating spectacle. I guess the majority of us are a little disappointed that Michael hasn't been able to raise his game but the season is only 2 races old so there is still time.

Perhaps a small number of his "fans" that were so confident Michael would destroy young Nico should be a little more realistic and not feel so hard done by. At least you are seeing your idol in a seemingly level environment and results that truly reflect his ability. If he does succeed then he would have done it on ability alone which is what everyone wants to see.

ArrowsFA1

29th March 2010, 15:51

I appears that Mercedes is good for places 5/6/7.
That's a good point :up: When he made his decision to come back MS probably thought the champions of 2009 would produce a car which was, at least, capable of challenging for wins from the outset. Clearly Mercedes do not yet have a car capable of that.

Retro Formula 1

29th March 2010, 16:13

That's a good point :up: When he made his decision to come back MS probably thought the champions of 2009 would produce a car which was, at least, capable of challenging for wins from the outset. Clearly Mercedes do not yet have a car capable of that.

You could say the same about the McLaren. After all, it's not as good as the Ferrari or the Red Bull.

I don't think the car is the problem and is no excuse.

arknor

29th March 2010, 16:40

You could say the same about the McLaren. After all, it's not as good as the Ferrari or the Red Bull.

I don't think the car is the problem and is no excuse.
but when we look at the facts it is the car that was the problem.

if we were to see schumacher trying to get past jaime we would have saw the toro rosso pulling away on the straights.

in the corners everyone already knows you cant follow a car closely because your front wing doesnt get any downforce in the turbulent air just watch alonso as he closes behind massa on some of the corners he has to lift of the throttle because he lost so much grip and risked driving off the track.

watch how fast hamilton closed in on hamilton but once he arrived he was almost instantly on his radio saying his tyres had "gone off" but in reality it would have been the turbulent air from running close to alonso causing the problems.

once the track had dried out and it was all about aero the overtaking stopped.

now if we look at the speed trap times for alonso , hamilton , schumacher and jaime over the 3 sectors we can clearly see why hamilton was allowed to be aggresive and why schumacher found it so hard to get past jaime.

INTERMEDIATE 1
L. HAMILTON 282.1
F. ALONSO 278.2
M. SCHUMACHER 277.9
J. ALGUERSUARI 276.6

INTERMEDIATE 2
L. HAMILTON 306.5
F. ALONSO 296.7
J. ALGUERSUARI 295.8
M. SCHUMACHER 291.3

INTERMEDIATE 3
L. HAMILTON 294.9
J. ALGUERSUARI 287.4
F. ALONSO 286.6
M. SCHUMACHER 285.6

schumacher was not able to close in on the straights and attempt a pass going into a corner and he could not get close inside a bend without losing aero grip on the front end (80% of the front end grip is said to come from the front wing alone)

the ferrari isnt much better on the straights so alonso would more than likely had just as hard a time behind the toro rosso but he was lucky to pass it in the pits while schumacher had to pass him twice on the track.

the toro rosso is not the slouch people assume it is with how the aero is disrupted these days with enough straight line speed even a slow car over a lap can find it rather easy to defend his position.

lets also not forget martin brundles comments of how "schumacher wont like alguesauri swerving all over like its a GP2 race"

if one of the front runners would have been doing that people probably would have said it was dangerous (its not something schumacher hasnt done in the past though so you cant really blame jaime for trying to make a name for himself)

Daika

29th March 2010, 17:26

schumacher was not able to close in on the straights and attempt a pass going into a corner and he could not get close inside a bend without losing aero grip on the front end (80% of the front end grip is said to come from the front wing alone)

the ferrari isnt much better on the straights so alonso would more than likely had just as hard a time behind the toro rosso but he was lucky to pass it in the pits while schumacher had to pass him twice on the track.

the toro rosso is not the slouch people assume it is with how the aero is disrupted these days with enough straight line speed even a slow car over a lap can find it rather easy to defend his position.

lets also not forget martin brundles comments of how "schumacher wont like alguesauri swerving all over like its a GP2 race"

if one of the front runners would have been doing that people probably would have said it was dangerous (its not something schumacher hasnt done in the past though so you cant really blame jaime for trying to make a name for himself)

It doesn't add up/explain why Alonso who was in a similar position as Schumacher, both were last of the pack, got past all of the cars in front of him when Schumacher wasn't able to past that guy with the difficult name that i can't type (toro roso). I did notice when Schumacher got past he was 1 sec faster in the first sector, but didn't drove away.

arknor

29th March 2010, 17:45

It doesn't add up/explain why Alonso who was in a similar position as Schumacher, both were last of the pack, got past all of the cars in front of him when Schumacher wasn't able to past that guy with the difficult name that i can't type (toro roso). I did notice when Schumacher got past he was 1 sec faster in the first sector, but didn't drove away.

alonso past jaime in the pits not on the track and alonso spent 7 laps behind pedro de la rosa so it wasnt exactly easy for him either. + schumacher had the extra stop which only seemed to be to see if rosberg should pit for new tyres

Retro Formula 1

29th March 2010, 18:35

We can all find statistics to justify a point. For example, Schumacher spent 5 or 6 laps behind the Virgin and I assume we're not going to compare that car with the Merc?

What we can look at is the overall race and you would assume a 7 times champion in a better car would not experience such a problem passing a rookie. It's not about who supports Schumacher or who "hates" him (as some like to label anyone that tries to be objective) but looking at the race itself.

arknor

29th March 2010, 19:06

]We can all find statistics to justify a point. For example, Schumacher spent 5 or 6 laps behind the Virginyou do realise your not allowed to gain a position behind a safety car right?

just because schumacher is experienced doesnt mean he can do the impossible and improve the top speed of his car in a straight line.

ArrowsFA1

30th March 2010, 09:40

I don't think the car is the problem and is no excuse.
It may be denting MS's motivation. A driver of his stature would expect more than a 5th or 6th place car to race with. Battling with a Torro Rosso is not going to get his competitive juices flowing. Schumi races to win, and until Mercedes can provide him with a car capable of doing that he's going to be a frustrated man.

Dzeidzei

31st March 2010, 13:40

It may be denting MS's motivation. A driver of his stature would expect more than a 5th or 6th place car to race with. Battling with a Torro Rosso is not going to get his competitive juices flowing. Schumi races to win, and until Mercedes can provide him with a car capable of doing that he's going to be a frustrated man.

Just to make sure: you think that when Merc will have a winning car, MS wont be frustrated anymore, will show his true pace and destroy Nico?

If thats the case, he´s behaving very unprofessionally at the moment. Look at Heikki and all the other drivers at the end of the pac. They´re driving their asses off even if they have zero chance of getting points at the moment.

Thats just a bad excuse for MS not being fast enough. If he doesnt deliver in Malaysia which is one of his fav tracks -and by delivering I mean beating Nico is the minimum- I think we can call the end of the MS era. Thats reasonable, right?

Triumph

31st March 2010, 14:04

I don't think it's a matter of making a judgement on Michael's capabilities at Malaysia regardless of how much he likes the track. I think it's still too soon to decide. It appears that he is improving as time progresses, so it may well take longer for him to reach his full capability.

I think you could write him off as no longer as good as expected if he fails to beat Nico on a regular basis later in the season. It looks as if he has just about caught Nico, so I would expect them to be equal for a little while (assuming no technical issues or unfortunate race occurrences), then start to beat him later in the season.

Maybe that won't happen, but it's definitely too early to write him off at the moment.

:-)

ShiftingGears

31st March 2010, 14:17

In the grand prix coverage, One HD showed an interview with Daryl Beattie and Michael Schumacher. One of the questions Beattie asked was whether in Mercedes he has had to change the car to his driving style, or whether he has had to adapt/change his own driving style to suit the car. His answer was "Well I'm not the fastest in the team at the moment, so I have to adapt my driving style to suit the car".

Michael was at least on the pace of Rosberg all weekend, at many times faster than him, so I am sure there is more to come from MS.

31st March 2010, 16:10

Thats just a bad excuse for MS not being fast enough. If he doesnt deliver in Malaysia which is one of his fav tracks -and by delivering I mean beating Nico is the minimum- I think we can call the end of the MS era. Thats reasonable, right?

It's only reasonable if your medication has worn off.

SGWilko

31st March 2010, 16:12

It's only reasonable if your medication has worn off.

He's m m m m mad sir....

Crucifiction? Third queue on the left.......

31st March 2010, 21:36

jens

3rd April 2010, 14:37

Just as I have done before on this forum regarding Massa/Kimi and Kimi/Badoer (and with success every time)
I am so certain of Schumachers superior abilities compared to Rosberg that I claim that next year Schumacher will
1) outqualify Rosberg at least 13:6
2) win at least one race
3) that Rosberg will end with less than 60% of Schumachers final point tally at the end of the season

Well mate, you may have been successful in the past with your guesses, but it looks like once in a while you have to face being wrong too. :) Rosberg owned Schumacher again - 3:0 and that predicted 6:13 doesn't seem to be coming anyhow. Less than 60% of MS's points certainly won't be the case.

First ever front row for Rosberg if I'm not mistaken and also in the wet - well done to the kid. :up:

arknor

3rd April 2010, 15:48

schumacher owned alonso and hamilton though he totally destroyed them maybe some kneck pain issues will arise from either of the two if not both

Sonic

3rd April 2010, 16:22

schumacher owned alonso and hamilton though he totally destroyed them maybe some kneck pain issues will arise from either of the two if not both

Eh??

Roamy

3rd April 2010, 16:28

I think you Schumacher fans better get to lobbying for Mercedes to to over and get Tad Czapski from Renault. Here is the real success behind MS.

Shalafi

3rd April 2010, 18:14

Schumacher is past it. Most overpaid driver on the grid. Ah... :)

airshifter

3rd April 2010, 21:08

Another conclusion I drew from qualifying was that the Lotus is a much faster car than the Mclaren's and Ferrari's... :p

The underdogs were so dominant in the first qually session that they rattled all the top drivers and teams! :laugh:

To be serious, I'm really not sure if we got any real indication of abilities in the qually sessions. It seemed to be mostly a matter of who was in the right place on track at the right time.

arknor

3rd April 2010, 22:30

The underdogs were so dominant in the first qually session that they rattled all the top drivers and teams! :laugh:

To be serious, I'm really not sure if we got any real indication of abilities in the qually sessions. It seemed to be mostly a matter of who was in the right place on track at the right time.
which was my point

3rd April 2010, 22:37

Schumacher is past it. Most overpaid driver on the grid. Ah... :)

As opposed to Kimi Raikkonen, the most overpaid driver not on the grid?

Schumacher's media coverage has already paid his wages in terms of Mercedes gaining publicity.

Shalafi

3rd April 2010, 23:10

Schumacher's media coverage has already paid his wages in terms of Mercedes gaining publicity.

Yeah, he can now enjoy his millions by being Nicos lapdog. :)

goodf1fun

4th April 2010, 00:59

Schumacher Will Be Champion End Of Story

F1boat

4th April 2010, 07:26

As opposed to Kimi Raikkonen, the most overpaid driver not on the grid?

Owned. And about being Nico's lapdog, I guess that it is more prestigious to be one of the many lapdogs of Sebastien Loeb - although a bit behind the pack, twelve minutes to be more precise.

Roamy

4th April 2010, 07:55

Schumacher Will Be Champion End Of Story

\
\Well he is supposed to be the best in the wet and you should get your opportunity in a couple of hours.

ArrowsFA1

4th April 2010, 09:07

For me MS's plight simply highlights how important the car is. The Mercedes, at the moment, is not a race winning car so neither he nor Rosberg are winning races.

One of MS's main strengths was working with the team to develop the car, and that takes time. Just how effectively he works with Mercedes will be interesting to see in the coming months. Can he do what he did at Ferrari, remembering that a championship was a long time coming there? Does he have that kind of time? Also, as MS works with the team will Rosberg gradually fade, or will his influence increase if he continues to outpace his team-mate?

Robinho

4th April 2010, 11:55

Qually, 3-0 rosberg. Races 3-0 rosberg. 1st Merc podium, Rosberg.

even if MS is comes good and picks up some excellent results there is no way that he'll be destroying his young teammate

Garry Walker

4th April 2010, 11:55

Well mate, you may have been successful in the past with your guesses, but it looks like once in a while you have to face being wrong too. :) Rosberg owned Schumacher again - 3:0 and that predicted 6:13 doesn't seem to be coming anyhow. Less than 60% of MS's points certainly won't be the case.

First ever front row for Rosberg if I'm not mistaken and also in the wet - well done to the kid. :up:

i will not give up at all :D

Whilst 13:6 is looking unlikely, I stand my predictions. The season is young.

But I will not hide my head in shame if I get it wrong :D

Not a good day for him at all today.

F1boat

4th April 2010, 11:58

Michael retired, he looked OK, still slower than Nico, though.

donKey jote

4th April 2010, 12:25

Niki Lauda from Schumi-TV reckons all will be different as of Barcelona :)

Roamy

4th April 2010, 16:16

well in defense of you poor schmuacher idols it did take JV around 6 races to catch up to the pace of Massa. These cars are hard to drive and each is unique. Thats why I haven't really been thrashing you idols incessantly

But you better get this old stone going soon!!!

markabilly

4th April 2010, 17:42

Right now, would say he would not even make a good lap dog for nico

snellman

4th April 2010, 17:59

nico must be devistated...

Shalafi

4th April 2010, 18:12

In the "big" four teams, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are three more or less evenly matched team-mates. Only exception to that rule is Mercedes... :D

4th April 2010, 20:54

In the "big" four teams, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are three more or less evenly matched team-mates. Only exception to that rule is Mercedes... :D

I can see the headline now....41 YEAR OLD MAN NOT AS GOOD AT SPORT AS HE WAS WHEN HE WAS 31!

Hold the back page on that one.

Having said that, isn't it nice to see Massa finally have a team-mate who can give him a race.

After two years without a challenge I did wonder if Felipe-Baby still knew what it was like to have to actually work to beat a team-mate.

markabilly

4th April 2010, 20:56

good lap dogs are hard to find....too bad Rubens went to Williams....maybe MS will worker harder and rise to at least house dog status....maybe Kimi might want to come back....but i think he is too lazy to be properly trained for and work at being a good, dependable lapdog

arknor

4th April 2010, 21:00

yea because schumi having a loose wheel nut = schumi cant drive lol. love the idiot logic

BDunnell

4th April 2010, 21:06

I can see the headline now....41 YEAR OLD MAN NOT AS GOOD AT SPORT AS HE WAS WHEN HE WAS 31!

Hold the back page on that one.

Which is precisely what many have been saying all along — that no-one can expect him to be any better than he was at the point of his previous retirement. Beyond it being a perfectly reasonable personal choice on his part about whether or not to make a comeback, this fact alone seems to render it an odd decision.

4th April 2010, 21:15

Which is precisely what many have been saying all along — that no-one can expect him to be any better than he was at the point of his previous retirement. Beyond it being a perfectly reasonable personal choice on his part about whether or not to make a comeback, this fact alone seems to render it an odd decision.

Better than he was?

Surely nobody was expecting that?

Nobody who doesn't convulse involuntarily and scream "Wibble" in a Shopping Centre, anyway.

But enough about Shalafi, nobody with any reality in their lives is too surprised by Michael not been dominant on his comeback.

BDunnell

4th April 2010, 21:19

Better than he was?

Surely nobody was expecting that?

Nobody who doesn't convulse involuntarily and scream "Wibble" in a Shopping Centre, anyway.

Of course, I agree, but this isn't really the point I'm making, which is more about wondering what his personal motivation behind the comeback is beyond the perfectly reasonable and understandable wish to have a fulfilling life and to go racing again. It's merely an interesting discussion point.

Shalafi

4th April 2010, 21:58

Having said that, isn't it nice to see Massa finally have a team-mate who can give him a race.

Ah, yeah, his last team-mate managed to win a WDC in Ferrari. How many WDC-titles Massa has? Just admit that you are so devastated because little Nico shows old man how to drive... :D

Big Ben

4th April 2010, 22:45

But enough about Shalafi, nobody with any reality in their lives is too surprised by Michael not been dominant on his comeback.

Did you read the title of this thread? ok... my bad... your supposition does not apply to the starter of this thread

Big Ben

4th April 2010, 22:51

Of course, I agree, but this isn't really the point I'm making, which is more about wondering what his personal motivation behind the comeback is beyond the perfectly reasonable and understandable wish to have a fulfilling life and to go racing again. It's merely an interesting discussion point.

yeah right... he's all about racing and not winning at all costs... oh no... not schumi. Nico should just go to him and say "so you wanted my number, my garage... how about I give you something valueable now like a few lessons how wedrive these things these days"

Roamy

5th April 2010, 05:58

you better go get TAD

harsha

5th April 2010, 06:32

where's the traction control :D :D

harsha

5th April 2010, 06:35

someone keep an illegal TC/LC under schumi's car.... :D

Roamy

5th April 2010, 06:41

someone keep an illegal TC/LC under schumi's car.... :D

:up: :up: :up:

F1boat

5th April 2010, 10:16

yea because schumi having a loose wheel nut = schumi cant drive lol. love the idiot logic

Actually I think that it is the engineer of Nico who is the main problem (Joe Clear or something). He seems to be blocking setup data of his driver to the teammate. He did this last year with Barrichello and while the Brazilian managed to catch Jenson pace wise, the whole team IMO suffered. Now we might be looking at similar picture, especially because as former engineer of JV Clear hates MS. And Shovlin might still be not as good as him, despite managing Jenson Button last year.
Of course, the fact that MS can not setup his car better than Barbie shows how much of his form he has lost. This comeback seems to be similar to the return of Michael Jordan, but like Jordan, Michael will surely remain one of the all-time greats (IMO the best ever). As I have said many times, even the Asgard god Thor failed to beat age. ;)

Valve Bounce

5th April 2010, 10:52

This comeback seems to be similar to the return of Michael Jordan, but like Jordan, Michael will surely remain one of the all-time greats (IMO the best ever). ;)

Was that with McLaren or Williams? I seem to have missed that one.

goodf1fun

5th April 2010, 11:05

schumi has 3 years contract...1 championship he has it in the bag...

he just needs time to test this car, he will be soon the old good michael

Mia 01

5th April 2010, 12:09

He will be back on the podium the other day.

He is not the best of the best anymoore, but he is a very good driver.

Roamy

5th April 2010, 16:02

He will be back on the podium the other day.

He is not the best of the best anymoore, but he is a very good driver.

Well said Mia :up:

goodf1fun

5th April 2010, 17:24

he is the best!!!!

Shalafi

5th April 2010, 17:50

he is the best!!!!

Best aged 40+ driver, probably.

ratonmacias

5th April 2010, 18:17

Actually I think that it is the engineer of Nico who is the main problem (Joe Clear or something). He seems to be blocking setup data of his driver to the teammate. He did this last year with Barrichello and while the Brazilian managed to catch Jenson pace wise, the whole team IMO suffered. Now we might be looking at similar picture, especially because as former engineer of JV Clear hates MS. And Shovlin might still be not as good as him, despite managing Jenson Button last year.
Of course, the fact that MS can not setup his car better than Barbie shows how much of his form he has lost. This comeback seems to be similar to the return of Michael Jordan, but like Jordan, Michael will surely remain one of the all-time greats (IMO the best ever). As I have said many times, even the Asgard god Thor failed to beat age. ;)

so now its rosbergs and clears fault? face it the chin was good becuase he had great cars and below average teammates. byrne and brawn are the creators of the chin. as i said before what a difference does having a competent teammate with equal footing makes.

5th April 2010, 18:23

Just admit that you are so devastated because little Nico shows old man how to drive... :D

Erm, I said all along I'd rather Michael had stayed retired.

But anyone who thinks that the 41 year old Michael's performance somehow effects, and detracts from, his previous achievements is a seriously brain-dead cretin.

ratonmacias

5th April 2010, 18:29

Erm, I said all along I'd rather Michael had stayed retired.

But anyone who thinks that the 41 year old Michael's performance somehow effects, and detracts from, his previous achievements is a seriously brain-dead cretin.

what detracts the chins accomplishments are his lack of competitive teammates the never ending doubts about cheater cars and his lack of integrity when he punted hill and villeneuve and finally his dirty tricks like parking in monaco and the austria stunt.

5th April 2010, 18:40

what detracts the chins accomplishments are his lack of competitive teammates the never ending doubts about cheater cars and his lack of integrity when he punted hill and villeneuve and finally his dirty tricks like parking in monaco and the austria stunt.

And when they give out World Championships for being frightfully nice you'll have a point.

Until they do, you just have envy that Michael achieved so much.

ratonmacias

5th April 2010, 18:59

And when they give out World Championships for being frightfully nice you'll have a point.

Until they do, you just have envy that Michael achieved so much.

its not about being frightfully nice its about integrity of which the chin has none. to me prost or hakkinen are worthier champions than the chin because they showed more class.

and please dont turn this into you are jealous of him thing any poster here would be jealous of even the most unaccomplished formula1 driver

BDunnell

5th April 2010, 19:10

But anyone who thinks that the 41 year old Michael's performance somehow effects, and detracts from, his previous achievements is a seriously brain-dead cretin.

Must you always be so aggressive in your wording? It's a shame, because I think you're absolutely right, so long as you also agree that this is true of other previous unsuccessful comebacks — Alan Jones' springs to mind — and not just Schumacher's thus far unsuccessful one.

Dzeidzei

5th April 2010, 19:41

Best aged 40+ driver, probably.

Best 40+ driver from Kerpen, certainly.

Shalafi

5th April 2010, 20:01

Best 40+ driver from Kerpen, certainly.

For sure, at least from all Kerpens rehtoreista. :D

BDunnell

5th April 2010, 20:03

Until they do, you just have envy that Michael achieved so much.

Arguments, the deployment of which renders somebody's opinions utterly bankrupt:

1. That the person criticising another individual somehow envies them. It's always complete rubbish, and always used by people with an unhealthily uncritical adoration of the subject of that criticism.

2. That the situation in any given country is 'like it was/worse than it was (delete as applicable) in Nazi Germany'.

Feel free to add to my list.

goodf1fun

5th April 2010, 21:05

how you dare to talk like that for the best driver ever?

5th April 2010, 21:30

Must you always be so aggressive in your wording?

Because I can't stand tools.

pino

5th April 2010, 22:08

Because I can't stand tools.

And I can't stand rude and aggressive persons, so do watch your language !

motetarip

5th April 2010, 22:11

Schuey is still an extremely talented driver, as can be seen by the fact he seems to win ROC every year! Hopefully he will get back into the F1 routine, and no doubt his physical fitness is still improving, after all he's only had a few months to get ready. Maybe he is too old, time will tell, but he's certainly not embarrassing himself at the moment. And if you're going to embarrass yourself - get paid several million euros at the same time!

I'm pretty sure Nico had to have a word with himself prior to this season, knowing who the competition was going to be.

Dzeidzei

6th April 2010, 08:49

Dzeidzei

6th April 2010, 09:15

A very interesting question is -if the situation stays like it is- when will Merc GP start treating Nico as the 1st driver. So having MS test different stuff just to benefit Nicos wdc campaign.

How would the old champ relate to that? Would be still be a team player?

Back in the old days he did support Eddie after his accident but that was a different thing. Now he´s having his ass kicked on track.

F1boat

6th April 2010, 09:28

A very interesting question is -if the situation stays like it is- when will Merc GP start treating Nico as the 1st driver.

Unlikely to start anytime soon. Button utterly dominated Barrichello last year in the same team and still they allowed Rubens to fight for the WDC till the very end of the season. I don't think that this will change.

Garry Walker

6th April 2010, 09:51

its not about being frightfully nice its about integrity of which the chin has none. to me prost or hakkinen are worthier champions than the chin because they showed more class.

and please dont turn this into you are jealous of him thing any poster here would be jealous of even the most unaccomplished formula1 driver

Prost was a true gentleman indeed, when he f*cked his bosses wife and rammed out Senna to win the title

Unlikely to start anytime soon. Button utterly dominated Barrichello last year in the same team and still they allowed Rubens to fight for the WDC till the very end of the season. I don't think that this will change.

Button utterly dominated RB? No, he didnt. He was better in the few first races of the year, after that it was RB who was the faster guy.

Dave B

6th April 2010, 10:47

F1boat

6th April 2010, 12:59

Button utterly dominated RB? No, he didnt. He was better in the few first races of the year, after that it was RB who was the faster guy.

I meant in the first part of the year. This didn't make him driver #1. If six wins to 0 is not enough, I am sure that Michael will have equal rights with Nico till he mathematically is out of it.
I also think that neither of them will fight for the WDC, so there will be no need of 1st and 2nd driver.

jens

6th April 2010, 15:22

In the "big" four teams, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are three more or less evenly matched team-mates. Only exception to that rule is Mercedes... :D

The least matched team has surely been Red Bull...

jens

6th April 2010, 15:25

Best 40+ driver from Kerpen, certainly.

Hmm, then I wonder, which 40+ driver from the whole world might match Schumacher? :D

jens

6th April 2010, 15:32

I meant in the first part of the year. This didn't make him driver #1. If six wins to 0 is not enough, I am sure that Michael will have equal rights with Nico till he mathematically is out of it.
I also think that neither of them will fight for the WDC, so there will be no need of 1st and 2nd driver.

There is too much talk about the statuses of #1 and #2. Before this season it was said that MS will surely be #1 and there is nothing Nico can do. The real situation is that any #1 status will be determined on track. If neither driver is better, no-one can be preferred until one is out of the title fight. Massa was theoretically hired as Kimi's #2, but it didn't work out that way.

Why didn't Brawn favour Button in the second half of 2009? Well, simply because Barrichello was often several places in front of him in races and there isn't much to favour in this case. And for instance in the German Grand Prix Button got ahead with the last round of pitstops.

Schumacher used to beat his team-mates too convincingly over a full season for them to have any chance of claiming the right for "equal status". If they would have been capable of matching, they would have done that.

F1boat

6th April 2010, 18:48

Hmm, then I wonder, which 40+ driver from the whole world might match Schumacher? :D

Depends on what type of car they are racing, obviously :)

motetarip

6th April 2010, 20:39

Wanted to comment on this, but it has so many mistakes and misunderstandings that wont bother.

Instead of being derisory perhaps you'd give it a go...

6th April 2010, 21:33

Arguments, the deployment of which renders somebody's opinions utterly bankrupt:

1. That the person criticising another individual somehow envies them. It's always complete rubbish, and always used by people with an unhealthily uncritical adoration of the subject of that criticism.

2. That the situation in any given country is 'like it was/worse than it was (delete as applicable) in Nazi Germany'.

Feel free to add to my list.

My point, which perhaps not surprisingly the sanctimonious and pious amongst you missed in a head-first rush to appear holier-than-thou, was that compared to the drivers admired by non-Schumi admirers, Michael has won a whole lot more.

It had feck all to do with an F1 drivers ability compared to an internet forum members ability.

The point was that it is the success compared to other drivers that the other drivers fans have always bristled at. That is pure envy. Nothing more and nothing less.

But, no doubt, Mr Dunnell will attempt an unqualified pyschological profile from this post along the tired lines of "you can tell more about the poster yadayadayada".

Un which case, take the opening sentences description of character traits as my return serve on that topic.

6th April 2010, 21:56

I think the envy comes from Michael himself because he is a great driver who dominated a not so great/strong era, and felt the need to make a comeback in an period where the talent is as strong as the era he just missed (80's)... :p

The fact that nobody dominates today can also be said to be a sign of a weak field because nobody is as good as Michael in his pomp, could it not?

A wider pool isn't necessarily as deep, as Confucius he say.

jens

6th April 2010, 22:05

Ugh, again the discussions about the level of competition in different eras. Well, I personally would say that there are certainly differences in the depth of drivers' talent on the grid across different years. Let's take one example. In 2001 the drivers who finished behind Schumacher in the WDC standings, were Coulthard, Barrichello and R. Schumacher. If we compare those Michael's rivals to current top contenders, then well - you can see a clear difference. None of those three could have been rated as any kind of equivalents to the likes of current top contenders Hamilton and Alonso even in their prime, going into history as B-category drivers. It is quite obvious that the talent level in the competition for top awards is better in 2010 than it was for instance in 2001. So when people say that Michael has harder competiton now than he was having in some past seasons, then I certainly consider it as a rightful claim.

IMO we live in a great era with a lot of great drivers. Of course not all of them will win titles and hence might look "weaker" statistically and on paper, but I do consider current field of talent actually even as the best of all times. I think it's logical as it's the result of constantly improving motorsport systems and opportunities across the world. In the faraway past only a fraction of potentially talented drivers got an opportunity to prove themselves in top-level racing compared to modern days, not to mention that the whole driver preparation through the feeder ranks is now much more professional.

Alfa Fan

6th April 2010, 22:50

jens

7th April 2010, 12:50

How can you categorically claim in the competition is harder? For me Ayrton Senna, Damon Hill, Jacques Villenueve, Kimi Raikkonen, Juan Pablo Montoya, Mika Hakkinen, David Coulthard, Rubens Barrichello, and Fernando Alonso were just as worthy competition

What concerns Hill, then besides 2001 1995 is another brilliant example of the weakness in competition. Both Williams drivers were throughout the season competing, who is capable of greater underperformance. And the other top team driver - Herbert - was famous for getting beaten by all more formidable team-mates (Häkkinen, Frentzen, Alesi, Barrichello, Irvine). We may argue about his treatment compared to Michael, but let's not go into it and that's unimportant, because he would have got beaten by MS anyway. Now looking behind them, maybe Alesi could have offered some competition in the title fight if he had had a top car, which was also reliable. Anyway, Schumacher was having a relatively "easy" season in 1995. Actually later, when he was racing against Häkkinen and Coulthard was already more experienced, it could be visibly seen that he needed to fight harder in order to come out on top.

And well, swap Barrichello, Coulthard and Montoya with Kubica, Vettel and Hamilton and we immediately have a stronger field. ;) Montoya IMO wasn't anything more than something around the current Mark Webber at best. As surely some would claim that "oh Vettel isn't a WDC, Kubica has won only one race, Rosberg none, etc, etc, so they aren't any good," let's find examples from sports, where results are technically measured and can be compared. Let's say in one 100m run World Championship final the times of Top3 are 9.70, 9.72 and 9.78. Next year the medal winners have run such times as 9.90, 9.94 and 10.02. Here is the question: is the performance of 9.78 worse than 9.90 just because he won a bronze medal instead of gold? To me it's a clear proof that the performance levels across championships do fluctuate.

I'm sorry to the fans of some past drivers, who were driving for top teams and were fighting for wins, but I view some of them inferior to some current "resultless" drivers.

Valve Bounce

7th April 2010, 13:01

I can't argue whether you are right or mistaken; but I do know you are comparing apples with bananas.

Robinho

7th April 2010, 13:47

i like apples and bananas and sometimes they are best when you have them together

ArrowsFA1

7th April 2010, 13:50

i like apples and bananas and sometimes they are best when you have them together
What, in the same fruit bowl :eek: :eek: :confused: :p

Robinho

7th April 2010, 13:56

obviously not sir, Bananas should be stored separately as they will make the other fruit degrade quicker, but quite tasty when eaten together. what this says about the competition Schumi had then and now i'm not sure but i'm sure we can draw some parallels (assume bananas are the new crop of drivers, the older ones will degrade quicker when kept together with the new ones)

Retro Formula 1

7th April 2010, 16:04

I wonder if MS will be racing in 2011?

I predict a "reoccurrence" of his neck strain will offer the the excuse to leave.

There's always the Masters!!

i_max2k2

7th April 2010, 20:59

airshifter

7th April 2010, 22:10

My first post in the forums, been reading here for some time, and very interesting opinions, I still think that we are reading too much into schumi's performance far too early. Considering his break of 3 years, I think he has come to pace with Rosberg quite early, he had his share of bad luck so far, and I think he'll only improve from now on. I still think that he will beat rosberg on points end of the season, and I really doubt he will go out before end of his contract! Lets hope Mercedes can come to speed with the top 3 soon.

You might have a hard time fitting in to the forum here unless you find a way to excuse his every mistake and state he is your idol, or openly show your hate for every breath he takes. Most people here can't think in logical terms as you have shown above!

But actually, I agree with you. Three years is a long time for anyone to be out of F1, and though there is a chance Nico will beat him for the season I personally think MS will recover and finish higher in points at seasons end.

steveaki13

7th April 2010, 23:14

I think Schumacher has done OK.

In Qualifying he has been pretty close to Rosbergs Pace in the first two races roughly 0.3 off in Bahrain and 0.1 in Australia, and it was only the wet conditions in Malaysia that left him 1.1 off.

As for the races in Bahrain he was only 4 seconds behind Rosberg and gained one place on him in a race in which no one made massive gains.
In Australia he had the touch with the spinning Alonso and had lack of pace from then on (Maybe more damage than let on), if not for that touch he could well have been ahead of Rosberg out of turn 1.

The Malaysian GP he ran in the points until the problem with his wheel.

So 3 races and 3 good Qualifying Sessions and 1 good race in Bahrain and then 2 races unfortunatly ruined by unforseen problems so hardly warrants talk of him being slow and unable to cope.

I think when he reaches older circuits like Spain, Monaco and Canada and alike he will be right on his form.

i_max2k2

8th April 2010, 01:06

Welcome :wave:

Thank you :)

You might have a hard time fitting in to the forum here unless you find a way to excuse his every mistake and state he is your idol, or openly show your hate for every breath he takes. Most people here can't think in logical terms as you have shown above!

But actually, I agree with you. Three years is a long time for anyone to be out of F1, and though there is a chance Nico will beat him for the season I personally think MS will recover and finish higher in points at seasons end.

Haha I have seen a bit of everything so far, but thats what makes the discussion interesting ;)

I think Schumacher has done OK.

In Qualifying he has been pretty close to Rosbergs Pace in the first two races roughly 0.3 off in Bahrain and 0.1 in Australia, and it was only the wet conditions in Malaysia that left him 1.1 off.

As for the races in Bahrain he was only 4 seconds behind Rosberg and gained one place on him in a race in which no one made massive gains.
In Australia he had the touch with the spinning Alonso and had lack of pace from then on (Maybe more damage than let on), if not for that touch he could well have been ahead of Rosberg out of turn 1.

The Malaysian GP he ran in the points until the problem with his wheel.

So 3 races and 3 good Qualifying Sessions and 1 good race in Bahrain and then 2 races unfortunatly ruined by unforseen problems so hardly warrants talk of him being slow and unable to cope.

I think when he reaches older circuits like Spain, Monaco and Canada and alike he will be right on his form.

In Malaysia, I think it was more of a case of who was where at the right time in Q3 as mentioned somewhere before, and at one point in Q2 he did set the fastest lap - briefly though before getting last as the track dried. In the race he had decent pace till he retired, I have noticed that so far he hasn't made many mistakes, he has been pretty consistent, like how he was before he retired. That was one aspect which did set him aside back then. And I don't think he is rusty anymore, lets see how the next few races go, before all teams get their upgrades.

Roamy

8th April 2010, 02:26

I have maintained that these cars are unique. YOU cannot just jump into one and get right up to speed unless you happen to be real lucky or the car is leaps and bounds better that everyone else. I have not written MS off at all at this stage. However Nico is going through some change as well by switching teams. This is one of the most interesting parts of the season. I was watching MS's hands in the last race and he is smooth as glass. I don't know maybe with the new style cars he will have to "hustle" the car a bit to get past Nico. But then again the setup may come to him and he could come very good very fast. But even with that there are NO flys on alonso.

ratonmacias

13th April 2010, 21:26

UltimateDanGTR

13th April 2010, 21:31

seems the mercedes is a dog as mercedes will debut a new car in spain

calling it a dog is far too harsh IMO. its the 4th best car on the grid, after all.

the Mclaren MP4-24 was a dog, before they transformed it later in the season.

the Ferrari 312T5, that was a real dog (and that's by the scuderias standards)

that dreadful Life thing in the early 1990s, that was a dog.

The Mercedes MGP W01 is not a dog, IMO, though can be improved.

Triumph

13th April 2010, 21:51

i_max2k2

13th April 2010, 22:03

I wouldn't say it has been a let down, but its been more like low key, in the first race he actually did a faster lap than Nico, In Australia and Sepang, he has been more of less unlucky. I'm sure in the next few races, people will get a better idea of where he stands.

I haven't written Michael off yet either. I must admit I'm a little bit disappointed, but I'm still expecting him to show more signs of his previous form as the season progresses.

If he can't beat Nico in the same car then we'll definitely have to write him off as further past his best than expected.

markabilly

14th April 2010, 14:26

I haven't written Michael off yet either. I must admit I'm a little bit disappointed, but I'm still expecting him to show more signs of his previous form as the season progresses.

If he can't beat Nico in the same car then we'll definitely have to write him off as further past his best than expected.

I wouldn't say it has been a let down, but its been more like low key, in the first race he actually did a faster lap than Nico, In Australia and Sepang, he has been more of less unlucky. I'm sure in the next few races, people will get a better idea of where he stands.

It may have something to do with the tires and handling of the current cars.

MS was never known for taking a pig to new heights, but he was known for liking oversterring cars and developing cars into winners (unlike Jimmy Clark who just got in and drove whatever so fast).

MS always preferred oversteer to understeer and with the narrow fronts and such, some of the cars tend to understeer considerably, (or so I understand, as I have not driven this year's model.... :s mokin:--before you pop off Dunnell )

Dzeidzei

17th April 2010, 12:21

It may have something to do with the tires and handling of the current cars.

MS was never known for taking a pig to new heights, but he was known for liking oversterring cars and developing cars into winners (unlike Jimmy Clark who just got in and drove whatever so fast).

MS always preferred oversteer to understeer and with the narrow fronts and such, some of the cars tend to understeer considerably, (or so I understand, as I have not driven this year's model.... :s mokin:--before you pop off Dunnell )

More than 7 tenths slower today. MS is being destroyd at the moment.

F1boat

17th April 2010, 13:24

havk

17th April 2010, 13:57

Yes, he is very obviously well past his prime. That's why I did not like the idea of return, although when It was announced, I supported it, because of the sweet memories of amazing drives. But everything has its end and when you miss it, it becomes ugly. To me its embarrassing that Michael is losing to an average driver like Rosberg. Maybe he should leave now and let Heidfeld to drive.

Maybe Rosberg isn't so average? I think he and Kubica are most underrated by some people drivers.

F1boat

17th April 2010, 14:41

Maybe Rosberg isn't so average? I think he and Kubica are most underrated by some people drivers.

Well, he is not a slow driver, but for me he isn't something like Hamilton or Vettel.

Ranger

17th April 2010, 14:57

Maybe Rosberg isn't so average? I think he and Kubica are most underrated by some people drivers.

They are both very good drivers. But they're definitely not underrated, IMO.

pettersolberg29

17th April 2010, 15:26

Maybe he should leave now and let Heidfeld to drive.

Couldn't agree more.

Sonic

17th April 2010, 15:32

Just a theory but MS has looked a great deal closer to our Nico's pace this weekend and then suddenly come quali he's miles off. Could he have taken a gamble with "proper" wet setting? Haug gave a thumbs up when he went 9th - or am I grasping at straws for th old boy?

havk

17th April 2010, 15:47

Maybe he should leave now and let Heidfeld to drive.

Couldn't agree more.

Resign in the middle of the season? I think it'd be a huge mistake. And I'm sure Schumacher will not do this, he won't give up so quickly.

Just a theory but MS has looked a great deal closer to our Nico's pace this weekend and then suddenly come quali he's miles off. Could he have taken a gamble with "proper" wet setting? Haug gave a thumbs up when he went 9th - or am I grasping at straws for th old boy?

who knows - he lost to Rosberg much more than in previous qualifyings this year

jens

17th April 2010, 16:23

To me Rosberg reminds a bit of Häkkinen and he may have even a similar career - finally starts challenging for the title after waiting for his first race win for ages. He is certainly better than average. I'd say that especially two established drivers have been leaving a very positive impression this year (Button and Rosberg). Now I can say that certainly both drivers were underestimated before this season. With those drivers plus Kubica impressing I must add that I can't wait to see Heidfeld back to prove that he is underrated as well. :D

As for Schumacher, I don't think we should concentrate on excuses all the time. Adaptability has been his main strength in the past. Recall 1991 Spa, when he arrived with minimal testing and immediately destroyed de Cesaris in quali - on a circuit, which was traditionally among Andrea's strongest tracks. In 1999 Schumacher mopped the field with a full second at Sepang after a comeback. To me it's obvious that MS isn't as fresh as he used to be. If he keeps going like that, I'd personally prefer watching Heidfeld than an "average Schumacher".

Sonic

17th April 2010, 17:27

Shalafi

17th April 2010, 18:16

Its getting embarrassing for Schumi... No question who is nr. 1 driver in Mercedes. Nico destroys him. :)

Shalafi

17th April 2010, 18:21

Yes, he is very obviously well past his prime. That's why I did not like the idea of return, although when It was announced, I supported it, because of the sweet memories of amazing drives. But everything has its end and when you miss it, it becomes ugly. To me its embarrassing that Michael is losing to an average driver like Rosberg. Maybe he should leave now and let Heidfeld to drive.

Average, Nico? First time he has a decent car and immediately he is destroying the legend... Maybe Schumi never was so great.. With best car and nr. 1-status it wasnt so difficult to dominate.