Saab-rumours

[Magnus]

Some swedish newspapers are writing about a possible link between Spyker - possible buyers of Saab - and a potential rally-venture. The combining factors are said to be these:
- Saabs rally-history goes way back.
- The S2000 will make it cheaper for manus to engage
- Spyker are very interested in presenting their brand in motorsport, and the Saab name could help them.
So, it would be a marriage of tradition and ambition.
To further fuel these speculations Kenya and USA are brought forward as examples of countries where Saab have sold quite a lot of cars due to their rallying-ventures. A fact is that in Kenya they sold even more cars then in Germany and France.
Now, these are speculations, but I can´t help finding them rather inspring!

All the best/ Magnus

[Daniel]

Saab will be dead soon enough.

[J.Lindstroem]

I think this is just some dreaming from a Swedish journalist.

Put this post on the same shelf as the one from Daniel!

[Daniel]

P.S I should point out that I love what Saab was before GM got involved and hope they do survive but doubt they will.

[Josti]

This has also been reported in Dutch media, at least the fact that Spyker is interested in purchasing Saab. Bit surprised because Spyker isn't really financially stable at the moment, but maybe this is their way to open doors in a different market, because they obviously aren't going to cut it with the C8 sportscar (or any variebles of that).

In any case, I hope Spyker learned something from their stupid F1 venture two years ago. Saab back in rallying (in any form) would be nothing else but awesome, but it sounds so unlikely at the moment.

[Mirek]

There is no suitable car for building S2000 in Saab's portfolio.

[Wim]

GM lost the last eight years 5000€ on every sold Saab. Making Saab profitable will be some task. Spiker has got big cash problems themself at the beginnig of the year. Howmany spikers has been sold worldwide? It's a pitty, but I think Saab is doomed. Weekly production Saab= 900 cars! BBBBBrrrrrrrr

[J.Lindstroem]

]There is no suitable car for building S2000 in Saab's portfolio.

Since seems to bee nothing else than a thread for dreaming, this is the next Saab. Suitable for rallying; yes.

http://www.bilsport.se/news.php?id=73704

[Koppomsbo]

the article also says that the new owner of Saab Will be königsegg... And we all now the end of that story

[jonkka]

Saab's story is over. Talks with Spyker collapsed and GM will wind down the innovative Swedish automaker.

[COD]

Since seems to bee nothing else than a thread for dreaming, this is the next Saab. Suitable for rallying; yes.

http://www.bilsport.se/news.php?id=73704

Hehe, looks like the old 96. Suitable for rallying? Why not, 96 was great :)

[Viking]

The end....

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/dec2009/db20091218_971897.htm

[GallardoGT]

I think this is just some dreaming from a Swedish journalist.

Put this post on the same shelf as the one from Daniel!

Why always bashing at the start of a new topic before really think about it for a moment. See a topic like this as opportunity to dream away for a moment if you have the imagination. That's just fun and please share that in the topic!

What I'm dreaming for instance; what about the deal the Chinese auto-industry want to make to get the license for the latest Saab models to produce. And with that deal that for instance Prodrive get the permission and needs to develop a new Saab 96 WRC !

[Macd]

"General Motors announced today that the intended sale of Saab Automobile AB would not be concluded. After the withdrawal of Koenigsegg Group AB last month, GM had been in discussions with Spyker Cars about its interest in acquiring Saab. During the due diligence, certain issues arose that both parties believe could not be resolved. As a result, GM will start an orderly wind-down of Saab operations."

[Micke_VOC]

A legendary company in motorsport are dead...sad.

A lot of fast drivers in the old days in Saab cars, like Stig Blomqvist and Per Eklund.

[Tomi]

A legendary company in motorsport are dead...sad.

A lot of fast drivers in the old days in Saab cars, like Stig Blomqvist and Per Eklund.

true, and when you look what crap stuff GM will continiue with, its even more sad.

[janvanvurpa]

Hehe, looks like the old 96. Suitable for rallying? Why not, 96 was great :)

That's where it all went wrong!!
Way back when USA became so important to Saab, Saab USA's decisions on what car they wanted to push.
I know people at Saab Sweden from their old Rally Department and have talked to some of those folks who went elsewhere when the rally department was closed.

Saab USA was selling lots of the nice reliable, easy to work on and moderately priced V4s, in fact far more 96s that the heavier, more delicate, less reliable 99, but Saab USA decided "How shall we sell more 99s---with more profit?"
And their brilliant answer was: stop importing the 96 at end of 1973.

Later, when the 900 was introduced in 1979, Saab USA used the same brilliant logic was applied to 99--which had become acceptably reliable---but "How can we sell more 900s?"

I had a business that was 96% Saab 96 from 1984 to 2000 and here in Seattle a huge % of the customers were Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish decent---and even as they had kids growing up, like good Nordbo, they wanted fun but reasonable cars.
Amazing how frequently people would ask "What the hell is Saab (USA) thinking that they only sell the 900 with electric sunroof, electric windows, AIR CONDITIONING (which made replacing the water pump jump from 36min without AC to 2,4 hours with AC) POWER STEERING!!!! and AND ALL AS A PACKAGE???!!!

They were very loyal customers and Saab USA management wanted only to make more profit per unit not retain core customers.

As Saab owners tended in those pre-GM days to be very well read we, or they
knew 96 was made until Feb 1980, and we're unhappy they were forced into a very much more expensive car, same like later when we all knew you could get a 2 door 900 turbo with PS but no other junk, yet they were forced to have TONS of expensive junk if they wanted a car.
Poor decisions by US management simply got worse post GM take over.

I still have my '96 96, and my phone number is 431-9696, so no real tears now, the poor company died a long time ago killed by American materialism, and fantasies about "Luxury". satanas runkare!

[J.Lindstroem]

Why always bashing at the start of a new topic before really think about it for a moment. See a topic like this as opportunity to dream away for a moment if you have the imagination. That's just fun and please share that in the topic!

What I'm dreaming for instance; what about the deal the Chinese auto-industry want to make to get the license for the latest Saab models to produce. And with that deal that for instance Prodrive get the permission and needs to develop a new Saab 96 WRC !

Ok, seriously. I have never tried to imply that there isd anything wrong with dreaming. Don't try to put those words in my mouth. I just said that this thread only is about dreaming. Saabs desteny has been predictable for months now and i just wanted to say that there is nothing else than dreaming to say that a Saab Wrc is possible.

Dreaming is something great. I spent most of my days dreaming but sometimes you have to put it away from the reality.

And Btw, do you mean ME when you are talking about bashing a topic?

[Woodeye]

...the poor company died a long time ago killed by American materialism, and fantasies about "Luxury". satanas runkare!

I agree 100 %. GM, job well done. Only morons like the ones in GM manage to kill such as great brand. I never got to own a Saab and now I never will get one.

[Daniel]

I agree 100 %. GM, job well done. Only morons like the ones in GM manage to kill such as great brand. I never got to own a Saab and now I never will get one.
To be fair to GM, Saab needed a big partner to stay alive.

To me Saab died properly back in the 90's when they stopped making these
http://www.e.kth.se/~e98_ama/bilder/saab/saab_i_blackeberg.jpg

and started making these
http://www.hdk.gu.se/files/portfolio/119/lowres/Saab900_1.jpg

My mum has a 4 door 900i similar to the one at the top although with different wheeltrims and the little rubber spoiler and although it's not the prettiest car it certainly was a great car.

[Simmi]

I like the guy peeking out from behind the 900i!

[Brother John]

To be fair to GM, Saab needed a big partner to stay alive.
My mum has a 4 door 900i similar to the one at the top although with different wheeltrims and the little rubber spoiler and although it's not the prettiest car it certainly was a great car.

Almost 30 years have Saab twisted with loss, now they needed 7 years to com with a new model and that had already become obsolete too large and too expensive and oldfachion before he was built(2010!!!). Therefore I thought about time that they stop.
And yes the old 900 was a nice car to drive!

[GallardoGT]

Ok, seriously. I have never tried to imply that there isd anything wrong with dreaming. Don't try to put those words in my mouth. I just said that this thread only is about dreaming. Saabs desteny has been predictable for months now and i just wanted to say that there is nothing else than dreaming to say that a Saab Wrc is possible.

Dreaming is something great. I spent most of my days dreaming but sometimes you have to put it away from the reality.

And Btw, do you mean ME when you are talking about bashing a topic?

Bashing is a strong and the wrong word sorry for that. I meant you and Danïel.

No I don't want to try to put those words in your mouth. Actually I think the most here are strong dreamers who can drive a WRC car.

Imo journalists nowadays are so brainwashed, restricted to the rules of mainstream media, afraid losing there jobs that they don't have clue what they are writing about.
It can be that this journalist even don't know the difference between an article and a column.

It's very interesting to read about Saab in the states and it was maybe sensible to develop further the 96 with the wonderful V4 engine. Porsche did it successfully with the 911. And the steady four stroke turbo engine's of Saab are still one of the best sportive alternatives for sensible future.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Can't see a rally programme happening!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/18/gm-shuts-saab

[Simmi]

Can't see a rally programme happening!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/18/gm-shuts-saab

/thread.

UNLESS it is all just an elaborate plan designed to ensure Saab can develop a WRC challenger in secret. Is that enough dreaming for Gallardo GT?

[SubaruNorway]

Anyone have any idea how much % you can get off on a new Saab now?

[Woodeye]

[quote="Daniel"]To be fair to GM, Saab needed a big partner to stay alive.[quote]

Sure, but joining GM was the mistake they made. They thought that GM would invest behind the brand and make it fly, but no. GM had no idea what to do with Saab. Europeans should've known better and not to sell Saab, Volvo, Jaguar etc.. to old 3 Giants in US. They never had any chance against Toyota, VW, Mercedes etc.

Luckily soon we all have no other options but to drive Chinese rice bowls with doors falling of in the corners. Can't wait really.

[Rallyper]

What will happen with the new 9-5 that was presented earlier this autumn?

Will it be a Cadillac, or an new Omega? :confused:

I guess they won´t throw the car away just like that....

[Wasted Talent]

Car manufacturer Saab poised to disappear:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/6840574/Car-manufacturer-Saab-poised-to-disappear.html

More history becomes........well, history :( :( :(

WT

[Magnus]

OK, seems I started my thread at a bad time:-)
It was, as have been mentioned, long expected. My thoughts are with the thousands of people who now have no job. What an x-mas gift...

I believe things started to go wrong somewhere after the introduction of the 9000. Saabs performance, turbo and handlingabilities were no unique by the end of the 1980ies.

It could also be that since they sold a lot of manumachinery to china, some of the good parts were gone by now with the company.

Well well, good bye saab. I will miss you, but also think about my ever breaking down saab 9000. Nowadays I always keep my distance to them: I know they can break down in the most strange way at any time;-)

[Zeakiwi]

To be fair to GM, Saab needed a big partner to stay alive.


Sure, but joining GM was the mistake they made. They thought that GM would invest behind the brand and make it fly, but no. GM had no idea what to do with Saab. Europeans should've known better and not to sell Saab, Volvo, Jaguar etc.. to old 3 Giants in US. They never had any chance against Toyota, VW, Mercedes etc.

Luckily soon we all have no other options but to drive Chinese rice bowls with doors falling of in the corners. Can't wait really.

VW, Suzuki and Maruti are looking to build small Indian rice bowl cars together so you will have a choice of rice bowl.

[Woodeye]

VW, Suzuki and Maruti are looking to build small Indian rice bowl cars together so you will have a choice of rice bowl.

I'd rather not choice not to have rice bowl at all.

[janvanvurpa]

To be fair to GM, Saab needed a big partner to stay alive.

To me Saab died properly back in the 90's when they stopped making these
http://www.e.kth.se/~e98_ama/bilder/saab/saab_i_blackeberg.jpg

and started making these
http://www.hdk.gu.se/files/portfolio/119/lowres/Saab900_1.jpg

My mum has a 4 door 900i similar to the one at the top although with different wheeltrims and the little rubber spoiler and although it's not the prettiest car it certainly was a great car.


Yep. I picked up an 85 just like that in 1995 for $150 in Boston. 16v B204 5 speed no turbo---sold the electric window winders for $75 each and the rad for $85 9and shoved in a spare new one i had laying around.
Excellent car! Cruise all day at 85mph/135 km/hr and got decent mileage.
But those 2 door with a boot were hyper rare in USA.

Saab USA decided we all want either 3 door (hatch) or 4 door versions of this car (with tiny fawkin front doors!!! I thought kids were small and adults like me big, WTF do the wee little curtain climbers get a larger rear door for?) so only 1500 ever imported....I've seen 5 maybe and I was in the Saab repair and rally business!!!

This shell, 2 door with boot, but turbo and maybe power steering is what many of my hundreds of 96 customers said they wanted.

Dra åt skogen me' dig!

Oops Saab USA was HQed in Connecticut so they wouldn't tell you to get lost with the Swedish phrase "Head for the woods!" it would probably be closer to "Fawk youse youse fawkin fawk!"
That's what the message was.

And I agree when they sold those Calibras as "900s" ugh!
(By the way did you know that the "Opel 900" took only 39% of the man-hours to assemble as the "real 900" did? Not 39% less time, 39% of the time for final assembly on the line at Trollhättan.

It fooled nobody.

Final example:
1995 Summer National Championship (or as i call it Nationella Champignonskit)
round in Maine. I win our version of F2 called Group 2 for 2wd cars only and was 9th overall in my trusty ol 1969 V4
http://www.rallyrace.net/jvab/spgm/gal/Everything_Else/clean%20maine.jpg

I call Saab with results---they paid fantastic by US standards then, unbelievable good by the standards in USA now= zero!!) and what do they say (you have to imagine some upper class Brit twit so BOTHERED to speak of such piddling annoyances as mere 800-900 dollars) "Really now John, isn't it about time that you begin to think of something just a bit newer than that old 69.....?"

So being a wee bit offended I said "Funny you should mention that....."
Saab: "Ooooooooh Reeeaaaaly??"

Me "yeah, I have a nice '73 96 shell I was starting to prep...."
Saab ..."(groan)"

[Tomi]

Final example:
1995 Summer National Championship (or as i call it Nationella Champignonskit)

Funny, nice pic the one with autograph.

[Magnus]

Seems eberything isn´t over yet. Spyker has renewed their bid, and according to GM they even have had more bidders since the news of the closing down of SAAB. I don´t beielve anything until I see it, but clearly many people are motivated, not only from SAAB.
It might be added though that SAAB with a new owner will not be saab, problably. But for the sake of the workers at SAAB, it would be so very nice if someone could come up with a solution.

[AndyRAC]

Let's hope for good news. GM in ruining another car firm shocker!!

[RS]

It's about time they closed down GM themselves, they've already lost something like $1.5bn since "emerging from bankrupcy"

[swordsman]

Seems eberything isn´t over yet. Spyker has renewed their bid, and according to GM they even have had more bidders since the news of the closing down of SAAB. I don´t beielve anything until I see it, but clearly many people are motivated, not only from SAAB.
It might be added though that SAAB with a new owner will not be saab, problably. But for the sake of the workers at SAAB, it would be so very nice if someone could come up with a solution.

Funny thing also is that the new investor that replaces their old, russian one - is an Abu Dhabi company :D

[Langdale Forest]

Saabroe would never make a good rally car now.

[Brother John]

Also formula 1-boss Bernie Ecclestone want bring out an offer on Saab with the investment fund Genii Capital!

Source: Belgium Newspaper!
http://www.hbvl.be/nieuws/geldzaken/aid892687/drie-kandidaten-voor-ultieme-redding-saab.aspx

[OldF]

Erik Carlsson: Monte

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/Erik_Monte.jpg

[OldF]

Erik Carlsson: Midnightsun rally

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/Erik_Midnightsun.jpg

[pettersolberg29]

What book is that from OldF?

[OldF]

What book is that from OldF?

Rallying with BP, 1965

[pettersolberg29]

Thanks.

[Tom206wrc]

If Saab goes to Bernie Ecclestone NO CHANCE of a rally car in the future :rolleyes:

If it goes to Spyker no chance neither as the dutch brand runs on circuit though :s

[bluuford]

If Saab goes to Bernie Ecclestone NO CHANCE of a rally car in the future :rolleyes:

If it goes to Spyker no chance neither as the dutch brand runs on circuit though :s

It seems that Spyker has bought Saab and I would say that in terms of possible rally future it was better chance :-)

[Daniel]

It seems that Spyker has bought Saab and I would say that in terms of possible rally future it was better chance :-)
Considering that Spyker have never turned a profit in their life I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Daniel]

Yep. I picked up an 85 just like that in 1995 for $150 in Boston. 16v B204 5 speed no turbo---sold the electric window winders for $75 each and the rad for $85 9and shoved in a spare new one i had laying around.
Excellent car! Cruise all day at 85mph/135 km/hr and got decent mileage.
But those 2 door with a boot were hyper rare in USA.

Saab USA decided we all want either 3 door (hatch) or 4 door versions of this car (with tiny fawkin front doors!!! I thought kids were small and adults like me big, WTF do the wee little curtain climbers get a larger rear door for?) so only 1500 ever imported....I've seen 5 maybe and I was in the Saab repair and rally business!!!

This shell, 2 door with boot, but turbo and maybe power steering is what many of my hundreds of 96 customers said they wanted.

Dra åt skogen me' dig!

Oops Saab USA was HQed in Connecticut so they wouldn't tell you to get lost with the Swedish phrase "Head for the woods!" it would probably be closer to "Fawk youse youse fawkin fawk!"
That's what the message was.

And I agree when they sold those Calibras as "900s" ugh!
(By the way did you know that the "Opel 900" took only 39% of the man-hours to assemble as the "real 900" did? Not 39% less time, 39% of the time for final assembly on the line at Trollhättan.

It fooled nobody.

Final example:
1995 Summer National Championship (or as i call it Nationella Champignonskit)
round in Maine. I win our version of F2 called Group 2 for 2wd cars only and was 9th overall in my trusty ol 1969 V4
http://www.rallyrace.net/jvab/spgm/gal/Everything_Else/clean%20maine.jpg

I call Saab with results---they paid fantastic by US standards then, unbelievable good by the standards in USA now= zero!!) and what do they say (you have to imagine some upper class Brit twit so BOTHERED to speak of such piddling annoyances as mere 800-900 dollars) "Really now John, isn't it about time that you begin to think of something just a bit newer than that old 69.....?"

So being a wee bit offended I said "Funny you should mention that....."
Saab: "Ooooooooh Reeeaaaaly??"

Me "yeah, I have a nice '73 96 shell I was starting to prep...."
Saab ..."(groan)"

Cool picture :)

Old Saab's are just cool :) There is a red 96 around here which is still rallied :thumb:

GM just didn't "get" Saab, that's for sure.

[Rallyper]

Anders Norstedt a well known rally and rallycross driver in Sweden told the local radiostation this morning that he´d do everything to make Saab comeback to rallying again in some way or another now that Saab will go on living.

He also said that there was a couple of 4WD prototypes of the 900 model running in the beginning of 80´s but new bosses at Saab turned that project down because they didnt believe in 4WD at the time. Which unfortenately was a big wrong decision back then.

[JFL]

So Anders wanted to prove them wrong and built one himself.. To bad the budget was a bit too small.. But mr. Eklund sure made it fly later on.. ;)
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5246/scan0028lr2.png

[driveace]

rally photo,s_0006.jpg (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2489&stc=1&d=1264597889)
Brilliant man Eric,used to walk round when we were servicing,in the 70/80s and always stopped for a chat
this guy also could make a 96 go,as could his team mate Per Ekland

[Saabaru]

]There is no suitable car for building S2000 in Saab's portfolio.
9x concept! GM was trying to sell it by itself before Spiker came along. The word is its been ready to go but GM wouldn't give the funding to put it into production.


I agree 100 %. GM, job well done. Only morons like the ones in GM manage to kill such as great brand. I never got to own a Saab and now I never will get one.
The fact that GM got Saab to turn a profit in 2007 for the first time since long before they ever considered buying the brand would argue otherwise.


It's about time they closed down GM themselves, they've already lost something like $1.5bn since "emerging from bankrupcy"
I couldn't agree more, no room in the world for government made cars. The good news is Saab might not go down with them. Word from U.S. news papers is that Spiker will take over the Saab brand for the bargain price of $76M but GM will retain $366M in common stock options. I'm trying to remain optimistic and hopeful for Saab! I'll get mine on the rally stages one day!

[Daniel]

9x concept! GM was trying to sell it by itself before Spiker came along. The word is its been ready to go but GM wouldn't give the funding to put it into production.


The fact that GM got Saab to turn a profit in 2007 for the first time since long before they ever considered buying the brand would argue otherwise.


I couldn't agree more, no room in the world for government made cars. The good news is Saab might not go down with them. Word from U.S. news papers is that Spiker will take over the Saab brand for the bargain price of $76M but GM will retain $366M in common stock options. I'm trying to remain optimistic and hopeful for Saab! I'll get mine on the rally stages one day!
Face it, they're dead. Spyker have NEVER turned a profit and over the last 2 years have sold 60 odd cars.....

[Brother John]

Face it, they're dead. Spyker have NEVER turned a profit and over the last 2 years have sold 60 odd cars.....

Yes they´re dead before they start. Spyker said on TV that them wants to build cars in the same class as BMW and Audi! :(
If they cannot pay the European loan back in time the Swedish government must pay back that with tax money!
Tax money of the Swedish population!
I do not believe that Saab continue exist in Sweden with Spyker, the production can disappear also to the Netherlands or somewhere else!
How can the Swedish government trust a company which is present already deeply in the debts?
Then we not yet talk concerning deceiving the Dutch state with the accountancy of Spyker! Or the formula 1 team which he bought and had to sell after 1 year to pay the debts of Spyker.
GM had already taken the correct decision to let disappear Saab.
Of course to see Saab disappearing it not nice, but the financial drama will be continued! :confused:

[bluuford]

Yes they´re dead before they start. Spyker said on TV that them wants to build cars in the same class as BMW and Audi! :(
If they cannot pay the European loan back in time the Swedish government must pay back that with tax money!
Tax money of the Swedish population!
I do not believe that Saab continue exist in Sweden with Spyker, the production can disappear also to the Netherlands or somewhere else!
How can the Swedish government trust a company which is present already deeply in the debts?
Then we not yet talk concerning deceiving the Dutch state with the accountancy of Spyker! Or the formula 1 team which he bought and had to sell after 1 year to pay the debts of Spyker.
GM had already taken the correct decision to let disappear Saab.
Of course to see Saab disappearing it not nice, but the financial drama will be continued! :confused:
I just read that quite a big share of that deal was also backed by Abu Dhabi

[Tomi]

Yes they´re dead before they start. Spyker said on TV that them wants to build cars in the same class as BMW and Audi! :(


Agree, it takes years and huge amounts of money to build a image that Saab for sure dont have now, better if they would take a few steps back and build good reliable cars that works well even when its a little colder outside, bad also if they move the production away from Sweden, built in Sweden stands for quality.

[Koppomsbo]

I couldn't agree more, no room in the world for government made cars.

Then Saab is dead aswell, as there is swedish government who is backing up this.

[Gordini]

To many will like to become Merc and BMW.Audi managed to, but not many others.
SAAB need at least one smaller and cheaper car to be their volume seller, or they will never make money.

[Saabaru]

Then Saab is dead aswell, as there is swedish government who is backing up this.

I thought they where only insuring the loan. :(

[Brother John]

.
SAAB need at least one smaller and cheaper car to be their volume seller, or they will never make money.

Yes that´s what they need! The boss of Spyker only talks concerning sport cars or cars such as BMW and Audi.
Yes the Swedish government only insuring the loan, but what meant that for companies in these times?

[Saabaru]

More good news!

"Saab and Spyker
Over the last few days many of you will have seen the enormous media coverage surrounding the ownership of Saab. On the 26th of January General Motors and Spyker Cars NV, led by CEO Victor Muller confirmed the details of a binding agreement over the purchase of Saab Automobile AB. The transaction is expected to close in February and Saab Automobile will exit the orderly wind down process in line with that timetable. Saab´s future as an independent company is secured.
For the latest information, interviews and to see what others are saying about us please visit the Saab Newsroom."

newsroom.saab-web.com

[Saabaru]

Now Spyker needs to get the 9X in production and market it much like Subaru and Mitsubishi does the Impreza and Lancer. Have and economy car that most people can afford without breaking the bank but also have a have a big brother like the STI or EVO that will get people's attention.