Dakar 2010

[bluuford]

Well, many former and current rally drivers are on the start again (Sainz, Chicherit, Attyah, Holowczyc, Kahle, Pozzo, etc.) and last year we had special thread for this as well.
Another thing worth noticing is their web game. Sounds quite interesting: http://virtualrallygame.com/index.php?lg=EN Bit similar to WRC idea.

So, would be nice to talk about rally drivers competing there during the off season. It ends right before the start of Monte

[SubaruNorway]

Well, many former and current rally drivers are on the start again (Sainz, Chicherit, Attyah, Holowczyc, Kahle, Pozzo, etc.) and last year we had special thread for this as well.
Another thing worth noticing is their web game. Sounds quite interesting: http://virtualrallygame.com/index.php?lg=EN Bit similar to WRC idea.

So, would be nice to talk about rally drivers competing there during the off season. It ends right before the start of Monte

Pozzo is the new Subaru Forester right? Who else?

[ZequeArgentina]

The other Subaru driver will be Ikemachi.
The subarus are an Argentinean effort, from local STi partner company Baratec.

[bluuford]

The other Subaru driver will be Ikemachi.
The subarus are an Argentinean effort, from local STi partner company Baratec.

Do you have any pictures? Cannot wait to see them on real raid :-)

[alleskids]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeVp9tmsvMk

[bluuford]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeVp9tmsvMk

Thanks, I rember now. I have seen the picture before. Looks very much like VW :-)

[ZequeArgentina]

Subaru protos:
Hi people, exactly it is an Argentinean effort.
It is a semi T1 prototype, why semi? because it is highly based in the production vehicle: body starts with the original body(highly modifyed), with a tubular chasis added, gearbox is subaru standard (from the 2,5 turbo Forester) and engine is the 2.0 turbo gasoline engine, hich the team has high experience with as the have plenty of goup N Imprezzas running for several years.

The constructor is Baratec (Barattero brothers) which are no amateurs at all.
They have plenty of experience in building rally cars, experts in suspenssions (their struts and shock absorvers are sold worlwide, even in USA their brand RSSP are well used in Subarus and Mitsubishis).
They have been chosen form Subaru (STI, their racing divission) as one of the six worlwide development partners for Subaru group N, and supply parts as ST original parts.

Regarding their Dakar effort, it started with th OK from Subaru Japan, but after the crisis subaru informed that their support will not mean money nor parts (really retired their effort), the project was somehow stopped.
They decided to keep it on their own with lower scope (2 cars in stead of 4, self development, less tests).
The car was finished just before the Rally Dos Sertoes and was driven by aBrazilean driver (Dani Oliveira, not a good one), as expected thecar had a lot of theething problems.

They wereabel to keep development andwill have 3500 km of tests, not the ideal but something.

They found support form Indumotora, (subaru distributor in Argentina and Chile) and local oil company (YPF) and are able to run the Dakar with two drivers:
Ikemachi: japanese driver with experience in dakar (6 times, only n Africa)
Pozzo: argentinean driver, group N world champion in WRC in 2001. Great experinece in rally, not in raids (only run lat year with a fist tim in dakar team, and ended early wih a broken engine).The project is a long term one, I do not expect a good result this year, they may choose a favourable stage or 2 and will try to show speed.

Their expectations are hise of someons who uses less than 2 US million (1,8 exactly) for all the idea: finish wih othcars, show some speed in some selected stages, and gain experience and Subaru attention, to upgrade their effort for he following years.

[Barreis]

Technical scruteneering (friend)..
http://desno4.forumfree.it/?t=23684530&st=2955#lastpost

[Barreis]

More photos..
http://desno4.forumfree.it/?t=23684530&st=2970

[Barreis]

Photos from today's drivers meeting just before start..
http://desno4.forumfree.it/?t=23684530&st=3015#lastpost

[Brother John]

Why the hell we find the Dakar at this WRC Tread? :rolleyes:

[N.O.T]

where is the entry list of the event ???

[Langdale Forest]

Why the hell we find the Dakar at this WRC Tread? :rolleyes:


Because there is nowhere else for it to be.

[Wim_Impreza]

Because there is nowhere else for it to be.

What do you think about 'America's, Asia-Pacific & African Rallying'? It was there the last years and other rallyraid news too.

[Simmi]

Don't see a problem with it being in here. This forum has the maximum visibility. I'm sure a lot of people will be watching it so why not. Nothing else going on is there.

[Langdale Forest]

What do you think about 'America's, Asia-Pacific & African Rallying'? It was there the last years and other rallyraid news too.

I did not think of that.

[MartijnS]

Nice jump of Gordon at the Show Start :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-uxHH7N4lM

[Woodeye]

Already one casualty in this years Dakar.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8881526

[pettersolberg29]

RIP and all, but spectators standing in dangerous places are making rallying seem more and more dangerous and risky, while it is actually much safer if spectators have some sense. That's a lot of deaths in 2009 and early 2010 already in rallying...

[Brother John]

Already one casualty in this years Dakar.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8881526

For this reason I hate the Dakar, every year the same problem! :confused:

[Woodeye]

For this reason I hate the Dakar, every year the same problem! :confused:

Same here. Well, I don't hate it, I just don't understand it. What's the point of going there and get killed? (or maybe cause the death of someone else)

[Mirek]

Accident involving spectators happen in every kind of rally not only in marathons. We had enough of them in common rallying in previous years also...

[Motorsportfun]

Very good run for Sardinian biker Luca Manca! It's 5th after Leg 2! Go Luke!! =)

[Barreis]

This is world championship so why to be somewhere else?! :)

[Wim_Impreza]

]Accident involving spectators happen in every kind of rally not only in marathons. We had enough of them in common rallying in previous years also...

True, but in the Dakar it is every year the same with dead people. I really don't understand why there must be a Dakar, the safety is almost nothing and for the money to compete, you can do almost a national rally season with a quite good car.

[Barreis]

Entry fee for a car is 28000 euros..

[Motorsportfun]

True, but in the Dakar it is every year the same with dead people. I really don't understand why there must be a Dakar, the safety is almost nothing and for the money to compete, you can do almost a national rally season with a quite good car.

The spectator that has been fatally killed was NOT in a spectators area, which was as far as about 600m. :rolleyes:

[ProRally]

The spectator that has been fatally killed was NOT in a spectators area, which was as far as about 600m. :rolleyes:

And police warned them several times to move....

Nasser said some 'spectators' go on the stage to try to touch the cars (as they try in wrc event too...)

Must be very frustrating for a driver....

[Josti]

True, but in the Dakar it is every year the same with dead people. I really don't understand why there must be a Dakar, the safety is almost nothing and for the money to compete, you can do almost a national rally season with a quite good car.

People who drive Dakar, aren't necessarily rally drivers. Dakar is a different challenge altogether.

I like Dakar, well more so in the African format to be honest, but of course these kind of things (which indeed happens nearly every year) aren't really making it more populair. But that's the danger of motorsport, and especially in rallying where spectators often stand in places where they don't belong, as in this case.

[bluuford]

Real nightmare race for Czech truck drivers and for Argentinean Subaru teams. Seems that they have all now retired.

[Mirek]

Not only for truck drivers who were crashing like hell. It's complete disaster for our top crews... Macháček (5x winner of quads) crashed yesterday also and now has to drive very carefuly and also our best car driver Zapletal (10th last year) is probably out today :(

[pettersolberg29]

On the other end of the scale, who is the sensible money on now? Looks like a 3 way battle between Peterhansel, Sainz and Al-Attiyah. I hope and expect Sainz to win from here, although all 3 look good.

[Barreis]

Sand storm, first 50 km of SS is disaster 'cos it was driven on some river staff and cars had to go after trucks today.. Dissaster.. 100 cars are missing at the end.. Friend (Drazen Curic, nmb. 440, after yesterday he was about 75th) broke shock absorber and it's total disaster 'cos under engine bonet is 10cm from the floor and it was impossible to continue.. Nobody knows what'll be..

[Tomi]

Nasser said some 'spectators' go on the stage to try to touch the cars (as they try in wrc event too...)

You have a long experience, can you explaine the point in this, touching the cars thing ? :)

[Barreis]

Sand storm, first 50 km of SS is disaster 'cos it was driven on some river staff and cars had to go after trucks today.. Dissaster.. 100 cars are missing at the end.. Friend (Drazen Curic, nmb. 440, after yesterday he was about 75th) broke shock absorber and it's total disaster 'cos under engine bonet is 10cm from the floor and it was impossible to continue.. Nobody knows what'll be..

EDIT: Excluded.. Only hope is neutralisation of the stage (last year two stages were neutralised) 'cos of lot 's non finishers at the end of the day..

[Simmi]

I was wondering about the Dakar in terms of VW and their possible WRC participation. Which of these scenarios is better so we see them decide to enter WRC. Winning or losing? The decision will be made shortly after this year's event.

If BMW beat them. Could that convince them they have a solid rivalry in Raid's and be something that could see them continue thru 2012 and beyond. Or they might think we were going to leave anyway - we still cant win easily - they beat us so let's cut our losses and go after 2011.

A win could see them finally think they have achieved their goals by winning twice in a row. Or they might enjoy the winning feeling so much they re-commit to the Dakar for years to come. They have said from 2012 they will do either one or the other - so what is the best result here for WRC fans?

[Josti]

I was wondering about the Dakar in terms of VW and their possible WRC participation. Which of these scenarios is better so we see them decide to enter WRC. Winning or losing? The decision will be made shortly after this year's event.

If BMW beat them. Could that convince them they have a solid rivalry in Raid's and be something that could see them continue thru 2012 and beyond. Or they might think we were going to leave anyway - we still cant win easily - they beat us so let's cut our losses and go after 2011.

A win could see them finally think they have achieved their goals by winning twice in a row. Or they might enjoy the winning feeling so much they re-commit to the Dakar for years to come. They have said from 2012 they will do either one or the other - so what is the best result here for WRC fans?

I'm hoping for a VW win, but maybe more so for a Sainz win. I thought they'll do Dakar next year regardless of their future plans concerning the WRC, though I'm not sure.

The BMW entry is not from the factory, so you never know if BMW wants to fully commit to Dakar in the future, and maybe that will hold back VW too. Despite all that, I see no relevance for VW to commit to Dakar on a long base. WRC makes more sense for a brand like VW, and as far as I remember Mitsubishi had a works entry on Dakar while doing WRC (although a combo seems unlikely these days).

[ProRally]

You have a long experience, can you explaine the point in this, touching the cars thing ? :)

Some spectators are so crazy (and drunk) that the want to touch the car when it comes by.

Specially in South America they travel to their viewing point start BBQ's (remember the service park catching fire with fallen bbq, the old army fire truck came full speed down the hill, could not brake and rolled on to the world rally cars, injured badly 1 of the Skoda people...), so during the waiting they eat and drink a lot so crazy ideas come to mind like , lets touch the car.... me too don't really understand the point, me I would touch a car in the service park. When in the F1 paddock I also touch the cars but they are standing still then :D :D

I remember a time, maybe somebody else too, that was it a Toyota Celica or Lancia Delta came to the end of stage and there was a finger stuck to the bonnet pin from people trying the touch the car.... :confused:

[ProRally]

Real nightmare race for Czech truck drivers and for Argentinean Subaru teams. Seems that they have all now retired.

More info on the Subaru drivers as to what happend ? They are already in the retirement list....

[Tomi]

Some spectators are so crazy (and drunk) that the want to touch the car when it comes by.

Specially in South America they travel to their viewing point start BBQ's (remember the service park catching fire with fallen bbq, the old army fire truck came full speed down the hill, could not brake and rolled on to the world rally cars, injured badly 1 of the Skoda people...), so during the waiting they eat and drink a lot so crazy ideas come to mind like , lets touch the car.... me too don't really understand the point, me I would touch a car in the service park. When in the F1 paddock I also touch the cars but they are standing still then :D :D

I remember a time, maybe somebody else too, that was it a Toyota Celica or Lancia Delta came to the end of stage and there was a finger stuck to the bonnet pin from people trying the touch the car.... :confused:

yep,yep, in masses stupidity condensates, in past this was a problem in portugal too, remainds a little of somekind of bullfight ritual.

[Simmi]

I'm hoping for a VW win, but maybe more so for a Sainz win. I thought they'll do Dakar next year regardless of their future plans concerning the WRC, though I'm not sure.

The BMW entry is not from the factory, so you never know if BMW wants to fully commit to Dakar in the future, and maybe that will hold back VW too. Despite all that, I see no relevance for VW to commit to Dakar on a long base. WRC makes more sense for a brand like VW, and as far as I remember Mitsubishi had a works entry on Dakar while doing WRC (although a combo seems unlikely these days).

Yeah they will do 2011 regardless with the current car. I'd love Sainz to win also and for VW to make him second in command behind Kris Nissen in the new WRC team.

[Mirek]

Rally leader Peterhansel in big troubles! He is being stopped on 135th kilometer of today's special...

[ProRally]

]Rally leader Peterhansel in big troubles! He is being stopped on 135th kilometer of today's special...

He lost 50min fixing a 'mechanical' problem....

[Josti]

Pity for Peterhansel, but glad to see Sainz in the lead now, hope he can hold it together this time.

[Mirek]

Italian motorcyclist Luca Manca had a serious crash. He is in critical condition with various injuries of his head and lungs. He is now in hospital in Cobre de Calama and doctors try to make his transfer to Santiago de Chile possible.

[pettersolberg29]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80939

Congratulations to Sainz and VW. Happy to see a WRC legend winning Dakar too.

[bluuford]

I think it was one of the closest victories in Dakar :-)
Al Attyah proved once again that he is on hell of a guy who does things on his way ;-)

[Simmi]

I think it was one of the closest victories in Dakar :-)
Al Attyah proved once again that he is on hell of a guy who does things on his way ;-)

Yep there is no "Al-Attayah" in team.

[Francis44]

Congratulations to Sainz, but Nasser deserved to win. Sainz is now just a cry baby who thinks anyone in the sport it's his subordinate.

[Simmi]

Sainz is now just a cry baby who thinks anyone in the sport it's his subordinate.

Hilarious statement.

[pucky54]

Sainz should get a penalty for ignoring the sentinel (Gordon & Al-Attiyah). And then he is surprised he gets bumped in his cars back. You could see how fine it works. The Mitsubishi drivers "parked" until the follower passed.

[Francis44]

Hilarious statement.

I didn't write the post with humour in my mind but im glad it made you laugh.

[noel157]

Congratulations to Sainz, but Nasser deserved to win. Sainz is now just a cry baby who thinks anyone in the sport it's his subordinate.

I agree. Disappointed how Sainz give the impression that he should be treated in awe by other competitors, came across as thinking he's bigger and better than others. Would've liked Nasser to win.

[MJW]

Good VW won. Now can they please hurry up an build a 2011 specification WRC car?

[alleskids]

Develloping a good/reliable/fast WRCar takes 18 months said Kris Nissen. Ready in 2011 for extensive testing and participate in 2012.

[Josti]

I think it was one of the closest victories in Dakar :-)

Actually, IT WAS the closest finish ever on Dakar.

Congratulations to Sainz, glad he finally won it. I enjoyed the spitfire between him and Al-Attiyah, but Nasser should show a wee more respect some times. Oh well, that's competition.

Next step for VW: WRC. :)

[ProRally]

Same for me, Nasser should have won, but hey there is always next year.
He is flying already back to Qatar as recce starts for MERC Qatar which is in 4 days from now !!

[bluuford]

In overall it was good Dakar :-) It cannot be said for Czech crews of course :-)
They had nightmare race. Only bad side was the death of one spectator at the beginning but it was better than average Dakar (usually more people get killed).
You have to remember that more than 500 cars are involved in the race for nearly one month (together with support) and in normal traffic there are also fatal accidents. So, it was near to the normal statistics).

And it was one of the few Dakaras were almost all stage kilometers initially planned were actually done. It has not happened often. Only a few sections in longer stages were canceled.

Only the winning team was a little bit too predictable in cars and trucks class :-)

And that Virtual Daka game was bit disappointing (endless number of bugs) but still good fun. I think I got something like 707th place in general standings ;-)