4x4s

[Langdale Forest]

What objections do you have about big cars like 4x4s?

IMO they are very usefull it they are used in the countryside and off road but the 'image' is notoriously insulting, especcialy when they pollute the enviroment and in the last few years, have personally insulted people (Clarkson does not help).

[MrJan]

The majority of them aren't used in an offroad situation that couldn't be handled by a normal car or a Subaru Legacy. Most people just feel safe in the higher driving position and talk on about needing the space.

[driveace]

Can we be straight on what you mean here,as I understand it there are very few Supposedly 4 wheel drive vehicles that are actually constantly 4 wheel drive Example Volvo XC90
Landrover Freelander
Hyundia Santa Fe ,these vehicles have a transverse engine and are FRONT wheel drive,they have a sensor in the gearbox that senses that one of the front wheel is spinning and this then employs the drive to the rear wheels .Its called Torque on Demand
I had a Suzuki Grand Vitara,that was rear wheel drive BUT you had a lever that either connected 4 wheel drive in either the HIGH box OR the LOW box,in 4 wheel drive LOW box it would go up an house side.
I think that very few vehicles advertised as 4 wheel drive are CONSTANT 4 wheel drive ,if they were tyre wear would be horrendous.
I own a 2007 Kia Sorento XT Automatic/tiptronic to tow my large caravan over the Pyrenese and back every year in January,and i encounter snow most years ,is that a problem to you?

[GridGirl]

I don't mind 4x4's when they are used for a practical purposes. I dislike them on the school run and hate them when certain drivers feel like they can bully you just because they are in a bigger car. I also dislike taxi's and White van men that are also prone to similar bullying driving tactics.

If I had a use for one then I would buy one but as I don't I could never see myself owning one. I get the other half to buy the relatively practical cars anyway. ;)

[Sonic]

Pointless for 99% who own them.

[Daniel]

Can we be straight on what you mean here,as I understand it there are very few Supposedly 4 wheel drive vehicles that are actually constantly 4 wheel drive Example Volvo XC90
Landrover Freelander
Hyundia Santa Fe ,these vehicles have a transverse engine and are FRONT wheel drive,they have a sensor in the gearbox that senses that one of the front wheel is spinning and this then employs the drive to the rear wheels .Its called Torque on Demand
I had a Suzuki Grand Vitara,that was rear wheel drive BUT you had a lever that either connected 4 wheel drive in either the HIGH box OR the LOW box,in 4 wheel drive LOW box it would go up an house side.
I think that very few vehicles advertised as 4 wheel drive are CONSTANT 4 wheel drive ,if they were tyre wear would be horrendous.
I own a 2007 Kia Sorento XT Automatic/tiptronic to tow my large caravan over the Pyrenese and back every year in January,and i encounter snow most years ,is that a problem to you?

No one's got a problem with that, it's the people who have the Cayenne's, Q7's, Range Rover Sport DDE's (Drug Dealer Edition) who own them as a status symbol and who take up more space than they need to on the road because they can.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

No one's got a problem with that, it's the people who have the Cayenne's, Q7's, Range Rover Sport DDE's (Drug Dealer Edition) who own them as a status symbol and who take up more space than they need to on the road because they can.

It is also sad that the people that drive these cars could have actually afforded something nice.

[Daniel]

It is also sad that the people that drive these cars could have actually afforded something nice.
Yeah but they don't want something nice, they wany something which screams "I'm a **** and I don't care what you think"

[Rollo]

I don't mind 4x4's when they are used for a practical purposes. I dislike them on the school run and hate them when certain drivers feel like they can bully you just because they are in a bigger car. I also dislike taxi's and White van men that are also prone to similar bullying driving tactics.


I entirely agree with this sentiment. For the most part in the city a big 4WD is incompatible with "normal" traffic.

Their bumpers are set at different heights to cars, if indeed they have bumpers, because down under they're more likely to carry big metal bull-bars.

The physical size of the vehicle tends to make them difficult to see through or around, which if you're trying to navigate tight streets is annoying if someone has parked them right where you want to see through.

Then of course there is the ery and bully factor; especially if you have an ML, Q or X. Then there are the pretend 4WDs like the X6 which you can't actually use off-road anyway (they even say so in the manual).
Now I find a trend to faux-environmentalism appearing what with Lexus' Hybrid cars and the Ford Flex Eco Boost AWD; the latter being a car with worse fuel economy than the V8 Mustang sitting next to it on the showroom.

[leopard]

Agree, for the most part in the city, and also in long drive, a big 4WD is incompatible with "normal" traffic, besides it consumes more fuel that is not suitable for daily drive. I'd assume those drive 4WD already own small common of FWD/RWD cars, or they have a lot of car in the garage, driving the 4WD only in special occasion in order to look more casual or the road condition requires more grip from car which is only 4WD can drive on it.

[leopard]

However, as long as you can afford, and you don't have any problem with the gas and its maintenance, big 4WD is cool, it's a temptation... :)

[Langdale Forest]

No one's got a problem with that, it's the people who have the Cayenne's, Q7's, Range Rover Sport DDE's (Drug Dealer Edition) who own them as a status symbol and who take up more space than they need to on the road because they can.


Why DDE?

An old Land Rover Discovery CLA (That promotes a lifetimes abuse on people). Clarkson will probably laugh at that!

If someone referred to you as a 'landrover'' would you find it offensive?

Calling someone a Toyota is even more insulting, as I found out 4 years ago. I resulted in me beigng kicked out of a shop and restaraunt.

[Daniel]

Why DDE?

An old Land Rover Discovery CLA (That promotes a lifetimes abuse on people). Clarkson will probably laugh at that!

If someone referred to you as a 'landrover'' would you find it offensive?

Calling someone a Toyota is even more insulting, as I found out 4 years ago. I resulted in me beigng kicked out of a shop and restaraunt.
Drug Dealer Edition, because you look like a drug dealer when you've got a Range Rover Sport with stupidly big windows and tints.

[Bezza]

They don't make much difference to the environment...as we now know ; ;)
However, people buy them as status symbols - for reasons such as:

a) Women - to show off to other mums on the school run
b) Women/Men - to give themselves a higher pedestal then other people
c) Men - to make up for a defiency in the trouser department

Waste of time apart from the 0.07% which are used offroad! And most don't work offroad anyway!

[Garry Walker]

Yeah but they don't want something nice, they wany something which screams "I'm a **** and I don't care what you think"

No sh!t I don't care what others (read: people irrelevant to me) think of me or my car. Why should I?


It is also sad that the people that drive these cars could have actually afforded something nice.

Whats wrong with Cayennes?

So what should I have bought instead of a Cayenne for the same amount of money or in the same prize range?


They don't make much difference to the environment...as we now know ; ;)
However, people buy them as status symbols - for reasons such as:

a) Women - to show off to other mums on the school run
b) Women/Men - to give themselves a higher pedestal then other people
c) Men - to make up for a defiency in the trouser department

Waste of time apart from the 0.07% which are used offroad! And most don't work offroad anyway!

or D) Some people just like them. Tastes differ. Some men like short women, some like tall women. Who the hell are you to critisize the tastes of other people?

[Daniel]

No sh!t I don't care what others (read: people irrelevant to me) think of me or my car. Why should I?



Whats wrong with Cayennes?

So what should I have bought instead of a Cayenne for the same amount of money or in the same prize range?

Ladies and Gentlemen..... we have exhibit A. You could have bought so many things for the price of a Cayenne that were better at being a car than that melted 911 on stilts.

[Garry Walker]

Ladies and Gentlemen..... we have exhibit A. You could have bought so many things for the price of a Cayenne that were better at being a car than that melted 911 on stilts.

Like what?

I had wanted a porsche since I was a kid and so far I am happy. When one wheel falls off, I will let you know and join the ranks of haters.

[Daniel]

Like what?

I had wanted a porsche since I was a kid and so far I am happy. When one wheel falls off, I will let you know and join the ranks of haters.
Like a 911?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Whats wrong with Cayennes?

So what should I have bought instead of a Cayenne for the same amount of money or in the same prize range?



Well it depends on how much it cost you. But if I had £90,000 to spend on a Cayenne Turbo S I would prefer to have a car that didn't look like an obese VW Beetle on stilts. I'd have gone for a Jaguar XKR to satisfy my right foot and with my change i'd get a seven seater MPV to satisfy the kids. But if i had a smaller family I'd prefer a high performance saloon eg XJR, M5 etc

But you're right that I can't criticize you for having what I think is dreadful taste.

[MrJan]

So what should I have bought instead of a Cayenne for the same amount of money or in the same prize range?

If you need a 4x4 then a Range Rover. If you need space then almost any estate car but an M5 estate would be a good option. If you're talking about a new Cayenne like Jon mentions then a Renault Espace run around with a GT3 RS track slag would probably fit the bill.

I don't care that you have one, I just think that you own an ugly and pointless car :)

[Langdale Forest]

Then of course there is the ery and bully factor; especially if you have an ML, Q or X. Then there are the pretend 4WDs like the X6 which you can't actually use off-road anyway (they even say so in the manual).
.

What would happen if you tried?

[Sonic]

What would happen?

Very expensive car stuck in a big muddy hole!

[Langdale Forest]

Could you still drive it down a gravel track or along a snowy road?

[Daniel]

Could you still drive it down a gravel track or along a snowy road?

This answer your question? :)


You're unlikely to find a set of winter tyres for a Cayenne
pXuhfwY74b8

[Mark in Oshawa]

In North America, the SUV ( the vehicle that annoys you Brits so much apparetly ) is also a vehicle that creates controversay. It uses more gas usually, but it is bigger and more usable for those with families. In a country that gets lots of winter, or even just in the northern US, that 4x4 feature is seen as a good idea. Gas prices here are cheap enough that it isnt' just the rich that buy them, and we probably have not half the vehicles on the road being SUV's.

My opinion? A Minivan is more practical for families. Most SUV's are never seen off road, and as someone who spends a lot of time on the road, I know that the minute I am going down the highway into a storm, that it is about 50-50 the only vehicles I will see off the road in the ditch will be these so called "safety conscious" buys of dumb people who cant grasp that 4x4 traction doesn't apply to cornering or stopping.

Most people who buy these are well within their rights to buy them, and I find some of them decent enough vehicles, but they are not as efficient as a minivan for family applications, and they don't perform as well as cars with AWD. IN short....You wont see my buying one....but all power to those who do. It is a free country here and ...ummm there.

[Daniel]

dumb people who cant grasp that 4x4 traction doesn't apply to cornering or stopping.

So true. Last winter we had a bit of snow and I was in Caroline's car (Subaru Legacy with AWD) going very slowly on a gravel road which had a couple of inches of hard packed snow on it and I went to brake from about 10mph and it just didn't stop and we sailed off the side of the road. A certain Donkey told me that it's quite common for the people who sail off the road to be people in 4wd's because they don't realise that 4wd's don't brake any better on snow :laugh:

[Mark in Oshawa]

This answer your question? :)


You're unlikely to find a set of winter tyres for a Cayenne
pXuhfwY74b8

THey make em to fit a Cayenne.

the drive in question wouldn't be kept that way if you lived there. You would be out there with rock salt and parking in the street until it melted.

I lived in the snow belt of Ontario near where Easy Drifter is and there are lots of drives like the one in the video...you learn to keep them clear...lol

[Daniel]

THey make em to fit a Cayenne.

the drive in question wouldn't be kept that way if you lived there. You would be out there with rock salt and parking in the street until it melted.

I lived in the snow belt of Ontario near where Easy Drifter is and there are lots of drives like the one in the video...you learn to keep them clear...lol
Of course you'd keep it clean, but it's just an illustration of the need for winter tyres and how bad summer tyres are.

[Mark in Oshawa]

So true. Last winter we had a bit of snow and I was in Caroline's car (Subaru Legacy with AWD) going very slowly on a gravel road which had a couple of inches of hard packed snow on it and I went to brake from about 10mph and it just didn't stop and we sailed off the side of the road. A certain Donkey told me that it's quite common for the people who sail off the road to be people in 4wd's because they don't realise that 4wd's don't brake any better on snow :laugh:

Living in Canada and the amount of snow we see over winter, you would think people here would grasp this. But they don't.

First rule of driving either for high performance, driving a rig or driving an SUV in the snow, you have to never overload your tire's ability to maintain traction. The AWD/4x4 vehicles will fool you. I prefer front wheel drive really in winter. I used to have an Rx-7 tho and never really got into trouble because if you coudn't get it going easily, you would know the stopping and turning was not going to be there either. It kept you out of overdriving...

[Rollo]

If you need a 4x4 then a Range Rover. If you need space then almost any estate car but an M5 estate would be a good option. If you're talking about a new Cayenne like Jon mentions then a Renault Espace run around with a GT3 RS track slag would probably fit the bill.


The Audi RS4 Quattro Avant (Audi's name for an estate / station wagon) shares precisely the same drive train as the Cayenne; is about £10,000 less model for model, in most cases will out turn, out brake and out handle the Cayenne.

The Cayenne sits on the VAG PL71 along with the VW Touareg and the Audi Q7, and all three of them are built at Bratislava, Slovakia, and therefore is the least possible Porschey sort of Porsche that it's possible to buy.


Who the hell are you to criticize the tastes of other people?

Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
"the right to hold opinions without interference. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression"

The right is guaranteed by law.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The Audi RS4 Quattro Avant (Audi's name for an estate / station wagon) shares precisely the same drive train as the Cayenne; is about £10,000 less model for model, in most cases will out turn, out brake and out handle the Cayenne.

The Cayenne sits on the VAG PL71 along with the VW Touareg and the Audi Q7, and all three of them are built at Bratislava, Slovakia, and therefore is the least possible Porschey sort of Porsche that it's possible to buy.



Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
"the right to hold opinions without interference. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression"

The right is guaranteed by law.

Oh so true...

[MrJan]

but it is bigger and more usable for those with families.

Over here many of them are just too big, many US type stuff is. Take the Escalade, looks chuffing ridiculous on this side of the pond. I even saw an F150 the other day (on the motorway) and he was virtually stradling two lanes, plus the thing was ridiculously tall, especially as my arse is only half a foot off the ground in my car :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

Over here many of them are just too big, many US type stuff is. Take the Escalade, looks chuffing ridiculous on this side of the pond. I even saw an F150 the other day (on the motorway) and he was virtually stradling two lanes, plus the thing was ridiculously tall, especially as my arse is only half a foot off the ground in my car :D

If I lived in Europe, I would really not like those vehicles. That said, a lot of the big Audi's and other SUV's from Europe that we do see are just better styled useless cars...

The new X6 is a joke IMO....

[MrJan]

The new X6 is a joke IMO....

Agreed. Never understood why anyone would want a 4x4 coupe

[GridGirl]

I can see why people like 4x4's across the pond as you may actually have more use for them. The thing with the UK at least is that it's just so small. In some places you can drive right across the country in a couple of hours where as you could probably drive 2 hours across the US or Canada and not meet anything. The road network isn't perfect but 99.9% of public roads don't require the use of a 4x4 either.

That said, I still don't understand why anyone would want a Hummer. :s

[Rollo]

Agreed. Never understood why anyone would want a 4x4 coupe

Ask yourself three questions:

What is the first word you associate with BMW drivers?
What is the first word you associate with SUV drivers?
When you see a coupe doing 69mph in the outside lane, what is the first word you think of?

The answers to those three questions tells you instantly who the car is for. The problem is that there's only one person in the world who actually fits that description...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Zlc12g6TJYI/SlZ79cRNJSI/AAAAAAAAAxU/9pytCMb6gyc/s400/John+Prescott+Pieman.jpg

John Prescott.

[MrJan]

What is the first word you associate with BMW drivers? Ummm....It begins with W and rhymes with 'anchor'
What is the first word you associate with SUV drivers? Ummm....It begins with the letter after V and rhymes with 'hanker'
When you see a coupe doing 69mph in the outside lane, what is the first word you think of? Ummm....It begins with the letter before X and rhymes with 'banker'

Hmmmm, I wonder what it could be ;)

[Mark in Oshawa]

I can see why people like 4x4's across the pond as you may actually have more use for them. The thing with the UK at least is that it's just so small. In some places you can drive right across the country in a couple of hours where as you could probably drive 2 hours across the US or Canada and not meet anything. The road network isn't perfect but 99.9% of public roads don't require the use of a 4x4 either.

That said, I still don't understand why anyone would want a Hummer. :s


You have that right on the distances over here...lol. 24 hours from where I am to the North and west and I still am in Ontario, and there are 4 more large provinces to get to the coast. Some of those roads at this time of year would be more tolearable with a 4x4 too.

as for Hummers, the military version is the only real one, and only is justifiable off road in exteme conditions. The h2 and h3 are just GM SUV's underneath and ugly as sin.....

[Easy Drifter]

Mark nailed it.
A inordinate number of vehicles off the road and often on their lids up here in snow belt are SUVs, especially on the weekends. Most people who live up here understand 4 wheel drive. The ones who most often dump it are the weekenders from the GTA going skiing. They do not understand that 4 wheel drive goes better in snow or on ice but they do not stop or turn any better than 2 wheel drive. Add in the extra height on many and they tend to go over more.
We used to own a 4 weel drive Mazda pick up. However we did commercial snowblowing and were out in many major snow storms with our tractor on the trailer. In the summer we did tree stump removal and 4 wheel drive was needed on some cottage roads in the spring.
I am quite happy with my front wheel drive car except I need new tires!
Just the same the most fun Rally car I drove eons ago was a decambered Corvair! Used to hang the nether regions out and just leave it that way for ages and steer on the throttle

[airshifter]

It's amazing how so many people think they should have input on what another person spends their money on, or why they spent it, or how it bothers them that it isn't a car like they drive.

Many if not most people could bike to work or ride a scooter. We don't need even small cars for the most part, we simply want cars. Just as with 4x4s and SUV's, it's rare that most vehicles on the road are used to their full ability very often.

I'll be another to openly express that I could care less what everyone else thinks of what I drive, or the reason I drive it. I think life would be boring trying to expect everyone to be the same. ;)

[Mark in Oshawa]

It's amazing how so many people think they should have input on what another person spends their money on, or why they spent it, or how it bothers them that it isn't a car like they drive.

Many if not most people could bike to work or ride a scooter. We don't need even small cars for the most part, we simply want cars. Just as with 4x4s and SUV's, it's rare that most vehicles on the road are used to their full ability very often.

I'll be another to openly express that I could care less what everyone else thinks of what I drive, or the reason I drive it. I think life would be boring trying to expect everyone to be the same. ;)

You will note I said I don't see the point in people owning SUV's, but you will never say me say they should be banned or people shouldn't drive them. It would be hypocritical of me to do that. I would own a Ferrari If I had won the lottery, and there is nothing logical about that except loving a fine machine.

That said, my condemnation of SUV's is more based on they don't really do what people think they do, and they encourage people to be driving faster than they should in crappy weather. Since I see a lot of crappy weather in a winter, and share the road with these morons.....I do have a bit of a desire to try to discourage people buying them for that reason only. It is a free world tho....and I guess this does match my libertarian instincts.

[Bezza]

No sh!t I don't care what others (read: people irrelevant to me) think of me or my car. Why should I?

Whats wrong with Cayennes?

So what should I have bought instead of a Cayenne for the same amount of money or in the same prize range?


or D) Some people just like them. Tastes differ. Some men like short women, some like tall women. Who the hell are you to critisize the tastes of other people?

Its a subconscious decision, Garry. I think you missed my point.

[Bezza]

What is the first word you associate with BMW drivers? Ummm....It begins with W and rhymes with 'anchor'
What is the first word you associate with SUV drivers? Ummm....It begins with the letter after V and rhymes with 'hanker'
When you see a coupe doing 69mph in the outside lane, what is the first word you think of? Ummm....It begins with the letter before X and rhymes with 'banker'

Hmmmm, I wonder what it could be ;)

Nah, in my opinion the answer rhymes with "bat", "hat" and "cat" ;)

[Daniel]

Nah, in my opinion the answer rhymes with "bat", "hat" and "cat" ;)
You think Garry is a mat? :confused:



:p

[Langdale Forest]

On this day 4 years ago, I misheared a conversation, I realised what I misheard but I made a new year joke of it by calling someone a 4x4 just to make discriminating personal attacks.


Now I just laugh at a total mess up of some words! :D :D :D :D :D

[Garry Walker]

Well it depends on how much it cost you. But if I had £90,000 to spend on a Cayenne Turbo S I would prefer to have a car that didn't look like an obese VW Beetle on stilts. I'd have gone for a Jaguar XKR to satisfy my right foot and with my change i'd get a seven seater MPV to satisfy the kids. But if i had a smaller family I'd prefer a high performance saloon eg XJR, M5 etc

But you're right that I can't criticize you for having what I think is dreadful taste.
Jaguar XKR? nope, not suitable.
MPV? ugly
M5? now we are talking, but still not quite what I like.


If you need a 4x4 then a Range Rover. If you need space then almost any estate car but an M5 estate would be a good option. If you're talking about a new Cayenne like Jon mentions then a Renault Espace run around with a GT3 RS track slag would probably fit the bill.
Renault escape and you say my taste is bad???



I don't care that you have one, I just think that you own an ugly and pointless car :)
Which you are entitled to.


Its a subconscious decision, Garry. I think you missed my point.

Yeah, whatever. I will just let you keep thinking that I bought the car because I wanted to have "status" in front of people I have never met and I have a 3,5 inch d1ck :D

[schmenke]

I live in a city where winter driving conditions are possible 6 months in a year. The city provides next to no snow-clearing. We currently have over 4ft high snow drifts on the residential streets.

This is why the schmenkes own a 4x4.

[airshifter]

You will note I said I don't see the point in people owning SUV's, but you will never say me say they should be banned or people shouldn't drive them. It would be hypocritical of me to do that. I would own a Ferrari If I had won the lottery, and there is nothing logical about that except loving a fine machine.

That said, my condemnation of SUV's is more based on they don't really do what people think they do, and they encourage people to be driving faster than they should in crappy weather. Since I see a lot of crappy weather in a winter, and share the road with these morons.....I do have a bit of a desire to try to discourage people buying them for that reason only. It is a free world tho....and I guess this does match my libertarian instincts.

My comments weren't directed at anyone in particular, but the trend seems to be that a lot of the people from Europe tend to have quite a disdain for anything they don't drive.

As for poor driving, I see that in a lot of vehicles on the road.

[Mark in Oshawa]

My comments weren't directed at anyone in particular, but the trend seems to be that a lot of the people from Europe tend to have quite a disdain for anything they don't drive.

As for poor driving, I see that in a lot of vehicles on the road.

Airshifter, I wont say from Europe only; but they are less in love with SUV's because they are more of a luxury item there. I don't like them much, but my mom-in-law has a little X-trail that I tolerate.

[allycat228]

I have a 04 old freelander it cost me £7000 i use it on farm land and i have to take my son into school so what i love it

[Hazell B]

If you need a 4x4 then a Range Rover.

Which is what I drive. Off road daily, seriously off road (often towing) monthly and perfect for dragging stuck dolts in Range Rover Sports on road tyres out of mud. I love it!

It was cheaper than a Discovery of similar age, but is as cheap to run pretty much. It was far, far cheaper than a 90, 110 or Defender.


(Re Cayenne) I just think that you own an ugly and pointless car :)

It's the one and only vehicle that would drag me away from the Land Rover brand names. I love the Cayenne deeply. I'm also fairly sure that, given the right tyres, I could use one exactly as I do the Range Rover. It would cost too much to run, though :(


For those saying a Freelander is permanent 4x4 - I don't think 95/5% counts. They are crap in my experience. In fact I'll go so far as to say only morons buy them and when they claim to be off roading their Tonka toy I've never yet kept a straight face :laugh:

By the way, I dislike any 4x4 that's pointlessly owned. Sorry.

[Hazell B]

One last thing. Last month I collected over a half ton of walling stone loose in the back of my Range Rover, along with an oak beam over 8 feet long, 9x9 inches wide, and had no worries at all getting out of a nasty wet (flooded, actually) field up hill. The day after it collected twenty six sacks of dog food.

Try that in a van :p :

[Langdale Forest]

For those saying a Freelander is permanent 4x4 - I don't think 95/5% counts. They are crap in my experience. In fact I'll go so far as to say only morons buy them and when they claim to be off roading their Tonka toy I've never yet kept a straight face

.

People may call you a tonka toy, and anyway, you might be liable to being called a '4x4' anyway. :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

[Hazell B]

That made no sense :rolleyes:

[Mark in Oshawa]

One last thing. Last month I collected over a half ton of walling stone loose in the back of my Range Rover, along with an oak beam over 8 feet long, 9x9 inches wide, and had no worries at all getting out of a nasty wet (flooded, actually) field up hill. The day after it collected twenty six sacks of dog food.

Try that in a van :p :

Try that in a Cayenne...lol

You use such vehicles as they are to be used. If you lived over here, I could see you with a pickup...maybe a dualie with a diesel motor.....

[Easy Drifter]

4 wheel drive with a crew or at least a club cab, winch and hydralics fitted for a snow plow.
Come on over Hazell! :D

[Malbec]

Airshifter, I wont say from Europe only; but they are less in love with SUV's because they are more of a luxury item there. I don't like them much, but my mom-in-law has a little X-trail that I tolerate.

Its not so much that they are a luxury item, after all there are many affordable SUVs around. The problem is that owners of SUVs here seem to engage in a driving style they wouldn't dream of in any other car, ie they seem to believe its fair game to intimidate anyone in a smaller car off the road.

My main concern is this. Right now most SUVs are still relatively new and run by people who can and do get them serviced regularly. What happens ten/fifteen years down the line and those same SUVs cost peanuts used? The kind of guys who buy ten year old BMW 3-series and do them up will end up choosing X5/6s instead and when it comes to choosing between petrol money and keeping the machinery well maintained can I trust them to make the right decision? I think not. When those cars start becoming unreliable and are driven by inexperienced young drivers thats when the problems will start. I'm not looking forward to it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Its not so much that they are a luxury item, after all there are many affordable SUVs around. The problem is that owners of SUVs here seem to engage in a driving style they wouldn't dream of in any other car, ie they seem to believe its fair game to intimidate anyone in a smaller car off the road.

My main concern is this. Right now most SUVs are still relatively new and run by people who can and do get them serviced regularly. What happens ten/fifteen years down the line and those same SUVs cost peanuts used? The kind of guys who buy ten year old BMW 3-series and do them up will end up choosing X5/6s instead and when it comes to choosing between petrol money and keeping the machinery well maintained can I trust them to make the right decision? I think not. When those cars start becoming unreliable and are driven by inexperienced young drivers thats when the problems will start. I'm not looking forward to it.

Whether it is a X3, X5 or a 5 series, if it is going to be 10 to 15 years old and some young guy feeling his oats is going to do something stupid. SUV or not, it comes down to driving training and maturity. Been a problem since the Model T

[Malbec]

Whether it is a X3, X5 or a 5 series, if it is going to be 10 to 15 years old and some young guy feeling his oats is going to do something stupid. SUV or not, it comes down to driving training and maturity. Been a problem since the Model T

Sure, but when that idiot crashes into you do you want his car to weigh over two tonnes with a centre of gravity about the same height as your head? I don't.

[MrJan]

Renault escape and you say my taste is bad???

The means justify the end. If I had a large family (which obviously I don't) then having some crap people carrier for the kids so that I could have a GT3RS would be perfectly acceptable IMO :D

[Langdale Forest]

That made no sense :rolleyes:


I think you know what I mean.

[GridGirl]

I presume you are trying to make some joke either about Hazel being fat or having 4 kids by 4 different men. Either way the joke isn't funny and neither scenario applies to Hazel. :s

[Langdale Forest]

I am not saying that anyone is fat, but some people could be called a 4x4 for a few reasons because of what you said.

It is more unfair personel comments about 'senarios' that are out of their controll.

I might call the same person a 4x4 again and say to him/her that is now has two meanings. This time, I have nothing to loose so I wil do it again.

Do we really need to destroy the Laesik Canyon agin? :uhoh:

Any jokes about people being born in a 4x4 are funny

[Jag_Warrior]

My comments weren't directed at anyone in particular, but the trend seems to be that a lot of the people from Europe tend to have quite a disdain for anything they don't drive.

I believe you're correct. I don't mean this as a swipe at Hazell at all. But as someone else mentioned, were she in the U.S., she'd more than likely have a pickup, probably one with a king cab. It might be a mid-size, but it sounds like a pickup with a king cab is what someone in her field would have. It's extremely unlikely that she'd have a Land Rover. Here, the only place you tend to see Land Rovers is at country clubs. The closest any of the ones here get to off-roading is when they park on the grass.

It's just a cultural difference.

The funny thing is, I just recently sold my 4x4 pickup. I got rid of my car trailer a couple of years ago and I didn't see that I needed the truck anymore. I was going to replace it with a smaller SUV. But with the economy in the crapper, I didn't want to make a purchase right now. So when this massive snow storm hit last week, I had to borrow my mom's Pathfinder. I haven't been able to drive my primary car for about a week now. Made me feel like a kid again: "Mom, can I borrow your car? I promise to put gas in it. Pleeeeease!" :rolleyes:

[Easy Drifter]

Jag: There is a TV commercial in Canada entitled ' Cdn. Police Chase'.
You hear sirens wailing and then a car comes into view sitting in the snow with the rear wheels spinning madly. Camera pans back and about 4 car lengths back is a cruiser doing the same. Bad guy passenger leaps out and starts pushing. Cop does the same.
I remember the ad but not what it is advertising! :D

[Hazell B]

I presume you are trying to make some joke either about Hazel being fat or having 4 kids by 4 different men. Either way the joke isn't funny and neither scenario applies to Hazel. :s


You got more out of it than me - I simply had no idea what he was on about :p :
Anyway, he's clearly not so hot on English or brainpower, so I've given in trying to understand.

No, Mark & Easy, I couldn't afford either of your top quality suggestions :D


Blaming new 4x4 owners for the future owners' moronic driving is deeply unfair. While I hate pointlessly owned larger vehicles, even I can't blame the guy buying a great big Range Rover or whatever now for being hit by somebody later in life. It's like saying I blame cheap wine makers for the street thugs born nine months after it's been drunk.
Blame the lack of driving skills, easy tests and poor laws, not 4x4 owners today.

[Langdale Forest]

What do mean about brainpower when I am the only person that thinks calling someone a 4x4 is funny if they are born in a 4x4.

Is anyone here born in a 4x4 anyway? I have no objections untill Jeremy Clarkson finds out and makes comments about them.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Hazel, the pickups are a little more affordable around here. In this part of the world you would have the pickup trust me. Land Rovers are dear in Canada anyhow...

[Langdale Forest]

oh dear... :uhoh:

[Langdale Forest]

Do you want me to tell you what it is?