New Indy Car

[anthonyvop]

Miller got permission to leak some info on the new Indy Car.



Say goodbye to the dog-faced Dallara. Images of the wind tunnel model are being held for the official announcement, but if it makes it past the approval stage, look for the first wingless IndyCar in decades.

Wingless car......bad idea.

Rest of the Article:
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-inside-the-2012-car/

Of course it was reported 10 days ago that the prototype is already built and running at Ganassi's "wind tunnel"

[ykiki]

Seems like a lot of people think roadster when they hear the word "wingless". I like to picture the mid-60s Lotus of Clark and Hill.

Realistically, who knows what we'll get.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I reserve judgment until I see it. So far I like the idea - but that's because Miller, who wrote the article, is apparently very keen on the car. And maybe that's a good sign, I found myself mostly agreeing with him since I follow US open wheel racing.

[garyshell]

What is wrong with a wingless car? Many of us have been calling for one for years! Puts the emphasis back on the DRIVER where it belongs. I want lots of horespower, wide HARD tires and no wings. I want to see a lot of oversteer in cornering. A little four wheel drift would be nice. I want to be able to see the drivers DRIVE the car.

Gary

[Lousada]

What is wrong with a wingless car? Many of us have been calling for one for years! Puts the emphasis back on the DRIVER where it belongs. I want lots of horespower, wide HARD tires and no wings. I want to see a lot of oversteer in cornering. A little four wheel drift would be nice. I want to be able to see the drivers DRIVE the car.

Gary

I'm 100% with you on this. Let's hope all our wishes come true!

[NickFalzone]

I didn't read Robin's article, but I like the idea of a wingless car, very much.

[SarahFan]

http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=delta+wing&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=NXciS6i_Fo3QtgPP9sSqCw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQsAQwAw

[Marbles]

I love the idea of a wingless car. It will separate Indy from the herd. No more confusion for even casual fans. No more fiddling with wing angles. This could be very entertaining even when the races aren't close!

Multiple chassis would make me ecstatic!

OT: Poetry in motion, for me anyways, is Jim Clark drifting a wingless Lotus through the corners... followed by him drifting a Cortina.

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClAqhNmglnM

[Marbles]

Just read the SPEED link. A four cylinder turbo-charged engine! This guys been reading my posts! ;)

[anthonyvop]

No wings.

4 Cyl turbo engines as non-stress members.

Why don't they just slap a turbo on a Formula Ford and save everybody lots of money and time?

[Chamoo]

No wings.

4 Cyl turbo engines as non-stress members.

Why don't they just slap a turbo on a Formula Ford and save everybody lots of money and time?

Formula Ford's aren't safe on ovals.

[NickFalzone]

It's sounds like they're relatively committed to going with this wingless design by Bowlby. The same design was mentioned on Trackside a few weeks ago as the leading candidate. If they do go with it, what are the ramifications on safety and speed? I don't know how a wingless design would affect safety, but would the change in aero negatively affect the speeds (particularly at Indy)?

[anthonyvop]

Formula Ford's aren't safe on ovals.
I was being facetious.


I was pointing out how Low-tech it sounds.
If I wanted low-Tech oval racing I would watch Sprint Cars, WoO or NASCAR.

[speeddurango]

It is not Formula Ford like type of car. At least it shouldn't be considering in the article it is said it could match current car's speed. Therefore, taking into account their purpose-found company name "Delta Wing LLC" and associating it with the link Ken has posted, one should get a basic concept of what this car would be like. I believe people just get too much carried away with the word "wingless" while it should have some serious form of downforce generator to make it go as fast as the current car. So this Delta Wing, what will it be like? Are they actually wings or will they be more closed to the ground and as act as an integrated part of a ground effect design? Whatever it is, I like the idea, it has come just in time when people are running news about an evolution version of the dreadful Dallara will be the new car for 2012, that would have been the last straw.

[Chamoo]

I was being facetious.

I understood that.

[anthonyvop]

It is not Formula Ford like type of car. At least it shouldn't be considering in the article it is said it could match current car's speed. Therefore, taking into account their purpose-found company name "Delta Wing LLC" and associating it with the link Ken has posted, one should get a basic concept of what this car would be like. I believe people just get too much carried away with the word "wingless" while it should have some serious form of downforce generator to make it go as fast as the current car. So this Delta Wing, what will it be like? Are they actually wings or will they be more closed to the ground and as act as an integrated part of a ground effect design? Whatever it is, I like the idea, it has come just in time when people are running news about an evolution version of the dreadful Dallara will be the new car for 2012, that would have been the last straw.
You get an awful lot from just a name.

Do Lotus F1 cars look like flowers?

[NickFalzone]

You get an awful lot from just a name.

Do Lotus F1 cars look like flowers?

Haha, I was wondering the same thing. Just because "Delta Wing" is associated with the design, absolutely does not mean that the car will look anything like those google image results.

[anthonyvop]

You're behind the times. It's not Formula Ford anymore. Just FF as the Honda Fit engine has been approved to run in the group and very shortly the last of the Kent engines will be paper weights.

I am aware. Actually the Honda and the Ford are pretty close in power output. I forgot which is which but 1 will be better suited for faster tracks and the other for slower. Soon it will be mostly Hondas though as Kent engines in good shape are getting harder and harder to find.

[ShiftingGears]

Wingless would be good.

[speeddurango]

You get an awful lot from just a name.

Do Lotus F1 cars look like flowers?

There is a kind of aero design called Delta Wing, and this name happens to be associated with this project, and it sounds as viable as irl goes the wingless way. Furthermore, this car, in order to go fast enough, without conventional wings, has to find a way to create downforce and that leaves plenty of spaces for assumptions. So there is a sound enough logic when assuming so.

Back to your reply, linking lotus team name to a flower on the other hand, is an utterly featherbrained logic which you employed to compare to mine in order to state that it is ridiculous. The fact is, I did not say this design will definitely be carried out in that way, I was making an assumption which is logical and yet certainly fallible to some degree. On the contrary, your comparison was not exaggerated, it is completely opposite to the fact. More logically, mine was a postulation juxtaposing an aero phrase with an aero project, while your comparison was completely superficial linkage of 2 things only bearing the same name while having no essential connection. Thus last but not least, I should say your conclusion of what I said was actually thinking flower seeing the word Lotus.

[Jonesi]

Didn't they call this a Delta Wing?
http://www.lsresincars.com/file/images/e1.jpg

[F1boat]

Wingless - too ugly IMO. I'd prefer the old CART cars.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Wingless - too ugly IMO. I'd prefer the old CART cars.

Yep, let's get stuck in the nineties. IndyCar needs something radical to rise out of obscurity. Just another formula car won't cut it.

[Chamoo]

In the RaceCar Engineering video I captured one image. That one REALLY resonated with me.

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/scuderiaconchiglia/IndyCapture.jpg

Gary

I'd be happy with that. But it sounds like this is going to be pretty radical as well.

[champcarray]

Thanks for sharing that image -- very interesting.

I'd also like to note that the success of the Lotus 79 led Lotus and sevral other F1 teams to design wingless cars where all the downforce was created by the underside of the body. It didn't work out, but that was nearly 30 years ago.

[Hoop-98]

With so little information , only one thing can be stated as an absolutely positive fact about the future Indycar.

The poster known as Anthonyvop will post that he doesn't like it.

rh

[jimispeed]

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/scuderiaconchiglia/IndyCapture.jpg


Gary, nice frame pic!! If this is the concept they're going with, it's my guess that the downforce will incorporate technology from the DP01 and untilize the body and under the body to achieve it. And, the car sort of has the Champcar signature hoop that existed for so many years. I personally like the design. With a turbo, it could be a handful to drive. From talking with Champcar drivers years ago, they preferred a car that you had to muscle around. Different driving styles could make this car very interesting to watch in a race! But, why 2012?? Why not 2011??

[anthonyvop]

With so little information , only one thing can be stated as an absolutely positive fact about the future Indycar.

The poster known as Anthonyvop will post that he doesn't like it.

rh

if it has no wings and the engine is anon-stress member you can bet your a*s I will hate it.

[call_me_andrew]

But, why 2012?? Why not 2011??

It takes 5 years for most production cars to hit the assembly line (3 if you don't mind doing a crappy job). Considering how much faster this is than most production cars, it's best to not rush it.

Will the car have ground effects, or will it have no downforce making devices at all?

[gofastandwynn]

if it has no wings and the engine is anon-stress member you can bet your a*s I will hate it.

But you hate this car, with its wings and stress member engine. I'm betting anything that dosen't look like a 95 Reynard you will hate...

[ClarkFan]

It takes 5 years for most production cars to hit the assembly line (3 if you don't mind doing a crappy job). Considering how much faster this is than most production cars, it's best to not rush it.

Will the car have ground effects, or will it have no downforce making devices at all?

If they are selling it as being as fast as current cars, it must have ground effects.

My question about leaving off wings is more practical - how will team adjust the distribution of downforce at the track, especially during a race? It doesn't seem practical to be swapping undertrays in the pits to move the center of downforce and rebalance handling.

ClarkFan

[anthonyvop]

But you hate this car, with its wings and stress member engine. I'm betting anything that dosen't look like a 95 Reynard you will hate...

Not really.
While an attractive car the 95 Reynard looks dated.

Now the Current Superfund League Panoz is a killer looking car.
http://www.mediagame.eu/images/image/as-roma-superleague-formula.jpg

http://www.eracemotorblog.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/acmilan-superleague-formula.jpg

[Chamoo]

If they are selling it as being as fast as current cars, it must have ground effects.

My question about leaving off wings is more practical - how will team adjust the distribution of downforce at the track, especially during a race? It doesn't seem practical to be swapping undertrays in the pits to move the center of downforce and rebalance handling.

ClarkFan

They won't be able to if there are no wings, they will have to play with other factors like tire pressures and such. I'm no tech expert, but there must be dozens of other ways to manipulate the car in the pits to do as they please?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am all for it. Take the aero dependency out of Indycar. That said, make it safe...and make it techy enough that it isn't a Formula Ford with more power.

Give us about 650 to 700 hp and hard to drive, and you just might have something....

[spiritone]

There are a lot of if's attached to this car.

1. Will it be as fast as the old car? That may not be hard considering the old dallara is a slug.

2 Will it capture the imagination of the fans. That could be a problem considering it looks like nothing thats racing right now.

3. Cost, how many of the present owners will be able to finance a new car and change in equipment that goes with it. New car= more wind tunnel time= win win for the teams with money.

4 Since the car has no wings,where do you put the sponsors names. Seems like there is not much sponsor space on the car.

Should be interesting to see how this all plays out. You have a support series with wings that is training its drivers to compete in a series with no wings, hm, more good planning.

[SarahFan]

4 Since the car has no wings,where do you put the sponsors names. Seems like there is not much sponsor space on the car.

.

will the road to indy actually become a road to F1 support series....things that make you go hmmmm

[Chamoo]

1. Will it be as fast as the old car? That may not be hard considering the old dallara is a slug.

I would assume that during the design process, they will have a strong idea of the capable speeds this car can reach on a variety of tracks, and will design it with the speeds they wish to have in mind.

I think the real question here is, do they plan on running flat out in the corners on ovals, or do they want the drivers to either back off the gas or use the gas pedal. This will determine the top speed of the car.


2 Will it capture the imagination of the fans. That could be a problem considering it looks like nothing thats racing right now.

I think it will be easier for the new car to capture the imagination of the fans if it is a radical machine that no one has seen before, as long as its a radical machine that looks good. You can build a radical car, but if it is the equivalent of the Dallara in looks, people won't care.


3. Cost, how many of the present owners will be able to finance a new car and change in equipment that goes with it. New car= more wind tunnel time= win win for the teams with money.

Whether we get this radical design or a simpler formula car design, the IRL needs a new car, and it will happen in 2012. The teams know it and now have the ability to plan on buying new cars in 2012 by preparing themselves financially to do so.

Of course, the question will remain, can the teams afford it? I think the IRL knows the Dallara is too expensive, and they can remedy that with this new car. Basically, anything cheaper then the Dallara is a positive and I would think will happen.


4. Since the car has no wings,where do you put the sponsors names. Seems like there is not much sponsor space on the car.

I thought of that as well. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the car looks like. For all we know, the sidepods (if there are any) could be rounder and larger then the current Dallara sidepods.

I don't think sponsorship is the thing we should be worried about though, as all the owners have signed off on this design, and I'm thinking that if they felt there wasn't enough room to show of their sponsors, they would have made mention of it and put it into the design somehow.


Should be interesting to see how this all plays out. You have a support series with wings that is training its drivers to compete in a series with no wings, hm, more good planning.

You're right, this whole process will be interesting, but I feel like it is being handled properly.

As for your reference to the support series, I would think that once the Indycar version of this new design is set out, it would be easier to design a similar, yet slower chassis to run in the FIL series. That series is due for a change as well, as I believe they have been running the same chassis' since the inception of the series in 2002.

[Hoop-98]

The performance envelope of the future car will be loosely determined by:

Units of Downforce per Unit of Mass

Wheel Horsepower per Unit of Mass

Lift/Drag Ratio

Wheelbase/Track

Tire/Mechanical Grip

As far as I can see, none of these have been determined, inferred, predicted etc.

So our opinions of the suitability of the new car have no real basis yet many posts align themselves along traditional party lines.

Now that makes me go hmmmm

:)

rh

[nigelred5]

Maybe our current Idea of wings and their placement is what needs to change. I remember the one design study was pretty radical looking but was described as "wingless", yet it clearly had split rear winglets and front canard type winglets. It looks more than a little too "Hot Wheel-ish" to me.

Develop the chassis with a lot of undertray downforce and small canards for tuneability.

[I am evil Homer]

Doubt it will have ground effects....last time a major race car had that to the same (and it had wings too) - they created huge amounts of disturbed air

Ground effects and Oval racing are a disaster in the making.

[Jag_Warrior]

It takes 5 years for most production cars to hit the assembly line (3 if you don't mind doing a crappy job). Considering how much faster this is than most production cars, it's best to not rush it.

But this is basically going to be a handbuilt racing car, not a production passenger car. And while I don't think Dallara (or whomever) would be able to cost effectively turn it around in a year or less, as F1 teams do, there's no reason it should take 3-5 years to design and build a (spec) racing car.

My memory, she not so good. But from the time that CCWS began talking about a new car til the time that the DP-01 hit the track for testing, what was that... 18-24 months maybe???

[spiritone]

With modern tools cars can be built fairly quickly now.

The big stumbling block is, what if this car turns out to be a dud? With the time that is being spent on this car, does the irl have a backup plan? This could be the end of the series. Is this the right time to be taking this kind of a gamble.

Judging by some of the decisions taken by irl this could be another disaster.

[chuck34]

The main problem isn't designing/building the car. As others have said that can be done in about 18-24 months fairly easily. The problem is the teams don't have much cash. The guys that came over from the CCWS, all had to buy new cars, and they would like to wait a while before doing it all again.

[bblocker68]

The main problem isn't designing/building the car. As others have said that can be done in about 18-24 months fairly easily. The problem is the teams don't have much cash. The guys that came over from the CCWS, all had to buy new cars, and they would like to wait a while before doing it all again.

I thought they got cars in the deal from T. George?

[vintage]

I believe they were, in essence, financed. I think the teams had to pay for them recently.

[nigelred5]

Just read the SPEED link. A four cylinder turbo-charged engine! This guys been reading my posts! ;)

I'm still hoping VW/Audi are in the mix for 2011/2012 or whenever, however a 2.0l 4 cyl turbo should have potential long term interest from just about all manufacturers if the series can ever rebound to a decent level of interest and exposure again.

[Chamoo]

Didn't VW want a 1.5L Turbo?

[call_me_andrew]

I'm sure you can build a car fast if you have the budget of an F1 team. But instead of a team of engineers working on this, Dallara probably isn't committing all of its resources to the effort.


Didn't VW want a 1.5L Turbo?

I think everyone agreed they wanted 2L turbos, but VW and Fiat wanted an I4 and Honda wanted a V6.

[ShiftingGears]

Hopefully they won't feel the need to put in some idiotic system like push to pass if they implement this wingless chassis. I am looking forward to see how this progresses.

[F1boat]

Yep, let's get stuck in the nineties. IndyCar needs something radical to rise out of obscurity. Just another formula car won't cut it.

If it doesn't feel like a formula car, it will die.

[SportscarBruce]

If it is indeed a delta-shaped chassis they had BETTER TEST THIS PROTOTYPE AT UNINTENDED ANGLES OF ATTACK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMeE9NAh60I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMeE9NAh60I

[SportscarBruce]

I have to believe that would be addressed in the initial wind tunnel mock ups. It should become apparant pretty quickly if there's a problem. That is a very good point that needs to be considered.

Now that chassis design philosophy is no longer subjected to business politicization in open wheel that is my hope as well.

[chuck34]

I thought they got cars in the deal from T. George?

I think vintage is right, they were just basically financed. There was a story that we discussed here a while back about the bill came due.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Now that chassis design philosophy is no longer subjected to business politicization in open wheel that is my hope as well.

You think there wont be politics on what this car looks like? There will be some, but it is sad that a series has to be on its back needing life support to get the politics of sponsors to be a non-issue. They still help pay the bills tho, no matter how small they are.

[V12]

Wingless, winged, ground effects, flat bottomed.... Don't care as long as multiple manufacturers can play. From reading that article it looks like this "new car" is merely a prototype/proof of concept sort of thing and they've mentioned the likes of Dallara, Swift and others all being involved. I hope they mean in the traditional sense where they draw up some technical regulations on the back of this prototype and let them have at it, rather than some sort of collaboration or allowing multiple manufacturers to build the same spec car (like in NASCAR effectively).

[Chamoo]

Wingless, winged, ground effects, flat bottomed.... Don't care as long as multiple manufacturers can play. From reading that article it looks like this "new car" is merely a prototype/proof of concept sort of thing and they've mentioned the likes of Dallara, Swift and others all being involved. I hope they mean in the traditional sense where they draw up some technical regulations on the back of this prototype and let them have at it, rather than some sort of collaboration or allowing multiple manufacturers to build the same spec car (like in NASCAR effectively).

Ditto. Multiple chassis manufacturers is a necessity.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Wingless, winged, ground effects, flat bottomed.... Don't care as long as multiple manufacturers can play. From reading that article it looks like this "new car" is merely a prototype/proof of concept sort of thing and they've mentioned the likes of Dallara, Swift and others all being involved. I hope they mean in the traditional sense where they draw up some technical regulations on the back of this prototype and let them have at it, rather than some sort of collaboration or allowing multiple manufacturers to build the same spec car (like in NASCAR effectively).

I suspect that your worst fear might happen. A collaboration of manufacturers making almost identical designs is what the old IRL formula was and I suspect it may be this time too. I dont' like it, but I think it is the reality of the lack of financial muscle the series has.

[ShiftingGears]

I don't care if it is a one manufacturer spec series so long as the chassis provide for good racing. For one, wingless cars mean more passing opportunities since they don't depend so much on clear air to properly corner.

[harvick#1]

I dunno, maybe they should just race pedal cars so everyone stops bitching.

a new car is being made and a lot are complaining.

as long as it looks decent and can actually produce racing instead of what they had at Homestead, then its fine by me, and after seeing the Dallara for so long, anything will look better

[SarahFan]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091217/SPORTS0107/912170446/1004/SPORTS/IRL-Tweak-machines-or-take-new-approach

[SarahFan]

For starters, the design hasn't left the computer screen, and a prototype isn't expected to be built until late next summer at the earliest. Then it must be thoroughly tested for performance and safety before being mass-produced.


Time isn't on Delta Wing's side if it is to meet the IRL's 2012 rollout. At some point, league officials must give manufacturers an answer on the sport's direction.


^above is cut and past from cavins article today....that doesn't seem to suggest this project is going to proceed well IMO...YMMV

[SarahFan]

http://photobucket.com/images/craig%20breedlove/

[anthonyvop]

Are you kidding me????

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1376/1434600206_9a49aefe3f.jpg

[SarahFan]

question for the class?

is a three wheeler a deal killer for any of you?

[garyshell]

question for the class?

is a three wheeler a deal killer for any of you?


Who said ANYTHING about it being a three wheeler?

Gary

[NickFalzone]

Who said ANYTHING about it being a three wheeler?

Gary

Gar, although I think Ken's photo suggestions are ridiculous considering the lack of information we have, I have heard that a 3-wheel design is a possibility. I could see this causing a lot of disgruntlement amongst hardcore fans. I think for me, it will depend on it's technical aspects, speed, quality of aero/racing, look, etc. Again for me it comes back to the fact that the IRL as a series is on the brink of complete insignificance. I mean just look at the recent tv-ratings. So fans can complain and moan that this car doesn't harken back to a standard indycar design. And I could understand that argument. But on the other hand, if it performs better than the current indycar, looks better, and offers better racing, all on the same tracks the IRL currently runs, then I would gladly accept it. I am one of those that thinks the IRL has to throw the long ball at this point to keep the series alive, and if it means a 3-wheeler that looks like a jetfighter on the ground, then so be it.

[anthonyvop]

question for the class?

is a three wheeler a deal killer for any of you?

Yep. A 3 wheeler will be a joke on a road course.

[SarahFan]

Who said ANYTHING about it being a three wheeler?

Gary

there has been scuttlebutt across the boards for almost a year now about a 3 wheeler....

Combined with a new company called 'deltawing' formed by a group of current team owners ...... Then factor in todays cavin article where they quote someone who has seen the design and he compares it to Craig Breedlove land speed record machines ....


So sure Gary it's speculation ...... But my question stands ...

Would a three wheeler be q deal killer for you?

[Hoop-98]

Hey I think I found it:

http://i48.tinypic.com/zs6jn.jpg

Seriously, i can think of no way to achieve similar performance levels with a 3 wheeler, so if something can do this, I need to be convinced.

So much of the cars performance relates to weight transfer and front and rear roll stiffness, you would be in a completely new world of development.

So I'll not make any rash statements, if a 3 wheeler can run a 1:06 at Long Beach for 1/3 the money, allow for overtaking, be safe, then it is not any 3 wheeler i can dream of, so I'll have to reserve judgment.

Not to mention, guys like Andretti, Ganassi, Penske know a little bit about cars, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I do predict AV won't like it no matter how fast it goes or how many wheels and Ken will go hmmmmm. :)

I predict a more conventional approach is being studied. Otherwise, better look at Motorcycle as the feeder, no conventional experience will apply... lol...

rh

[nigelred5]

Ever driven a T-Rex?

[anthonyvop]

Ever driven a T-Rex?

Yep. Quick, fun and a Ford Focus can generate more cornering forces.

[NickFalzone]

Ever driven a T-Rex?

Never seen one in action, but the specs seem pretty solid, only 900 pounds, 2 passengers, 3.5 secs to 60 mph, top speed of 160, looks like fun. How this type of design would work on twisty courses, I don't know, but is apparently solid as a street car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagna_T-Rex

http://www.sportbikez.net/bikepics/110/medium/1107385587.jpg

[SarahFan]

I agree with hoops prediction.....although when it comes to aowr just when I think I've seen it all .......

Hmmmmmph

[ShiftingGears]

There is the radical and then theres the downright ridiculous. The wingless idea is radical, but still sensible. Anything resembling the Spirit of America, is not.

[call_me_andrew]

question for the class?

is a three wheeler a deal killer for any of you?

In this series, yes. I believe three-wheeled vehicles ought to be classified as motorcycles and not cars.

But there would be an upside to it: If the IRL wants races in Europe, they don't have to go through the FIA anymore. I doubt FIM would worry much about it.

[shazbot]

I can not seriously believe that any of you are even talking about three wheels. What kind of warped reality are you living in? Maybe it's a big joke and it's too early in the morning for me.

[SarahFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J4-4AjVBoU

[SarahFan]

http://blogs.indystar.com/racingexpert/2009/12/dec_18_on_delta_wing_and_milwa.html

^in cavins most recent it says.... open wheel, open canopy and four wheels (although bowbys original design was thre wheeels)

[dataman1]

Too funny! A real example of "run what you brung".

Bigger crowd than the last Milwaukee race and it reached the target audience (20-30's). Must of had 50+ entries, even bigger field than a NASty car race.

Thanks Ken!

[champcarray]

lol. I almost did a spit take when I saw the pink big wheels being brought through the crowd! I could be mistaken, but that crowd looks larger than the pole and bump day crowds at Indy.

[Chamoo]

Three wheels would hamper the safety of the vehicle would it not? I was under the impression that in impacts with concrete walls, the wheels/tires did absorb a small percentage of the impact. Could the car above provide the same safety as the current Dallara with a rear end collision with the wall?

[SarahFan]

Three wheels would hamper the safety of the vehicle would it not? I was under the impression that in impacts with concrete walls, the wheels/tires did absorb a small percentage of the impact. Could the car above provide the same safety as the current Dallara with a rear end collision with the wall?


Hoop is clearly the resident expert around these parts on the subject...

but from where I sit (firmly in my chair in front of the computer) on the subject.... i dont see how a three wheeler wouldnt suffer in both safety and performance

[SarahFan]

Too funny! A real example of "run what you brung".

Bigger crowd than the last Milwaukee race and it reached the target audience (20-30's). Must of had 50+ entries, even bigger field than a NASty car race.

Thanks Ken!

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=lombard+street&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g2

its a cool spot for the event.... and knowing the craziness of sanfrancisco i'm sure a good time was had by all.....

[Hoop-98]

4 wheels, open wheels, open cockpit says Cavin...

[SarahFan]

4 wheels, open wheels, open cockpit says Cavin...


Which prompts the question....how radical can it really be?

Just another in a long line of things that make me say hhmmm

[call_me_andrew]

Which prompts the question....how radical can it really be?

Maybe all four wheels are in tandem?

[NickFalzone]

Maybe all four wheels are in tandem?

maybe it's 3 wheels with a sidecar on it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Three wheels isn't auto racing...so I doubt it was considered. Lets just see what happens. Change for the sake of change in this case is good.

[SarahFan]

...so I doubt it was considered. .

theres some fairly credible sources out there that reported it was in fact considered..

YMMV

[SarahFan]

what would be so hard about setting a max and min height, weight, lenght and width along with a set of mandated safety standards.....


thoughts?

[anthonyvop]

what would be so hard about setting a max and min height, weight, lenght and width along with a set of mandated safety standards.....


thoughts?

That is the easy part.

The hard part is getting manufacturers to commit Millions of $$$$ in development with a chance of not selling enough to even break even.

[SarahFan]

That is the easy part.

The hard part is getting manufacturers to commit Millions of $$$$ in development with a chance of not selling enough to even break even.


seems to me if the they set the basic requirments (the easy part)... then spent there time and energy promoteing the sport etc etc..


just another in a long line of things that make this fan say.....HHhhmmmmm

[call_me_andrew]

what would be so hard about setting a max and min height, weight, lenght and width along with a set of mandated safety standards.....


thoughts?

That's called F1 and the average budget is $200 million.