FIA meeting Wednesday

[MJW]

Anyone heared any leaks from the meeting that Jean Todt called with the WRC and IRC prior to tomorrow's "rubber stamping" FIA World Council meeting?

[pettersolberg29]

No, but does anyone know what is meant to be being discussed? I have a contact within one driver's team and all he says is that the 'driver' is waiting until after the meeting before deciding what car and what series to race in next year.

To me this suggests (rumour alert!!) that there is a possibility of rule changes regarding S2000 and 1.6T, and maybe a 2011 merger between IRC and WRC?

[morganmilan]

Does anyone know at what time is tomorrow meeting? Will be there official news just tomorrow? :confused:

[Francis44]

Does anyone know at what time is tomorrow meeting? Will be there official news just tomorrow? :confused:

Someone will leak something!!!!

[pettersolberg29]

Better coverage:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80503

And a new pyramid system:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80502

Both seem like good ideas to me. Not as large scale as I'd hoped but more might still come out of this meeting.

[Hartusvuori]

"The holy grail is to deliver a real, simultaneous live race experience where you'll be able to go after Sebastien Loeb at the same time on the same stage, and compare your performance against his. In addition you'll be able to have his live on-board camera footage integrated into the live game-play experience."How's this possible? At what time is the platform for rally game's stages done - or will it be - horror! - so that rally routes' will remain the same year after year so that people at home can play their PS3 or whatever at the same time?

In general, it sounds really nice idea to bring actual stages to a gaming world. Even so good that I might consider buying myself PS3 or what it takes. I suppose it won't run on PS1...

[Motorsportfun]

Better coverage:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80503

And a new pyramid system:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80502

Both seem like good ideas to me. Not as large scale as I'd hoped but more might still come out of this meeting.

They're good ideas in my opinion too. According to Duncanson, it looks like that they'll totally revamp the WRC website in a couple of months. They already opened the World Rally Championship channel on youtube, where COMPLETE 30 mins magazines will be uploaded! :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/show/worldrallychampionship

The "live-game" (MMORPG type) will be great, if true! It's gonna be a proper dream: a player that can contest ALL the stages of a true rally on his pc... corner by corner... wow! :eek:

If they broadcast also in HD something on tv (maybe they have to point their attention to free-to-air televisions, in order to arrive to much more spectators).
TV - if "used" in the right way - could be another great way to promote the series. Think about a shakedown that counts for the starting order (a kinda F1 qualifying session), think about the final stage of every day broadcasted live (with on-stage cameras, onboard and wescam) and then, from the Service Park the day's press conference. Then, on Sunday after the final stage, the podium and press conference from the SP. Many times you have the podium away from all the action of the SP, it could has a potential... ;)

...anotha idea: the "promotional" cars before the start of the stage. Wouldn't it be nice if some girls will give free gadgets to the people in the spectators area about 2-3 hours before the start of the stage? It could be quite entertaining to the spectators :)

[RS]

This from the FIA website (but when are they confirming tech regs for 2011?):

The FIA today hosted a Rally Forum bringing together the major stakeholders from across the world of rallying for the first time.

The Forum was co-chaired by FIA President Jean Todt and FIA Deputy President for Sport Graham Stoker, with participation from promoters, teams, manufacturers and drivers from the FIA World Rally Championship (WRC), the Intercontinental Rally Challenge (IRC), the Dakar Rally and other cross-country rally championships.

Manufacturer representation included Citroën, Ford, Volkswagen and BMW. They were joined by talents such as Carlos Sainz, Guy Fréquelin, Michèle Mouton, Juha Kankkunen, Petter Solberg and Armindo Araújo.

Together they discussed the challenges faced by the rallying community as a whole and the best way to help stakeholders achieve success in the future.

Following a positive exchange of views from all representatives, the participants agreed to create a Working Group to produce a plan to develop rallying on a global level. The group will be chaired by the FIA Deputy President for Sport and comprised of representatives from each category of stakeholders.

[General Prim]

Where are the new Makes?
What happens with Montecarlo, Corsica o Safari?
What happens with a 'rival' like ISC?, because that is what it is..

blablablabla.....
No solutions at all
Just a good day to visit Paris before Christmas and go shopping....

The meeting was also for IRC and Raids, so no trying to find specifical solutions...
I hope at least Mr.Sainz told what he thinks about WRC nowdays...

[Josti]

Where are the new Makes?
What happens with Montecarlo, Corsica o Safari?
What happens with a 'rival' like ISC?, because that is what it is..

blablablabla.....
No solutions at all
Just a good day to visit Paris before Christmas and go shopping....

The meeting was also for IRC and Raids, so no trying to find specifical solutions...
I hope at least Mr.Sainz told what he thinks about WRC nowdays...

I agree, nice stories and all, and to be honest, they sound quite interesting, but to my surprise no word about the fundemental problems of rallying nowadays.

Bit of a joke...

[Motorsportfun]

Come on guys, it's a forum, not a WMSC! What did you expect from a forum? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ZequeArgentina]

o Volkswagen and BMW were there.
Interesting!!

[MJW]

o Volkswagen and BMW were there.
Interesting!!

representing the rally raid teams. FIA press release said WRC / IRC and Dakar

[Motorsportfun]

representing the rally raid teams. FIA press release said WRC / IRC and Dakar

BMW don't have ANY works team in rally raid... are they thinking to WRC from 2011? Also WTCC will have same engines (1600 turbo) from that year... :)

[rp]

BMW don't have ANY works team in rally raid... are they thinking to WRC from 2011? Also WTCC will have same engines (1600 turbo) from that year... :)

BMW owns Mini and it is rumoured that Prodrive is already developing "Mini Cooper WRC" for the new regulations...

Also VW is potential, but the Group´s make of a car could be Skoda if not VW itself...

[Simmi]

The working group sounds mildly promising. Just getting people in one room to thrash things out is what the WRC needs to form a common direction.

As for the other stuff....

I swear the ISC thinks if you have a problem just throw some more onboard footage at it and that will solve it.

The computer game is, lets be honest, a complete pipe dream. They will release a new game which is good. But to computer model a rally stage down to the T would take such a long time. And they want to do that for every stage of the rally! That's just not realistic. Any game developer would baulk at that. You'd need to know the exact stages for all rallies well over a year in advance. I really would not be pinning all my hopes on a computer game. It could be achieved on a smaller scale but you wouldn't be able to accurately compare with a driver on the actual stage with an actual car.

With huge fundamental problems in the sport this presentation, is IMO embarassing.

And as for the feeder programme. That is a good idea in principle. Make the sport more accessible and a supposedly more realistic goal than F1. But the glaring problem is that unless rallying changes, you still need lots of teams and a cash-rich sport to give these prospects any chance. Otherwise it will still be the good drivers on the outside and the guys with money in the good cars.

So yeah I'm not being sucked in by any of this superficial stuff they are spouting.

[MJW]

With this computer game thing........instead of a €500k world rally car, or even €300k S2K,1.6T, and event entry fees, transportation costs, hotel room, paying engineers and mechanics, the new genertaion can sit in front of their PLAYBOXWIIPUTERS, and beat Loeb. Wonderful, just think of the positives, this reduces the carbon footprint of WRC, you wont need those round rubbery things that Pirelli make, drivers wont need to be fitness addicts,- take it to the ultimate why should manufacturers make cars when they can make pixels. Sad world, there will be people who wont smell a hot rally car with mud baking on it. Seems that ISC still fail to understand the sport.

[Simmi]

With this computer game thing........instead of a €500k world rally car, or even €300k S2K,1.6T, and event entry fees, transportation costs, hotel room, paying engineers and mechanics, the new genertaion can sit in front of their PLAYBOXWIIPUTERS, and beat Loeb. Wonderful, just think of the positives, this reduces the carbon footprint of WRC, you wont need those round rubbery things that Pirelli make, drivers wont need to be fitness addicts,- take it to the ultimate why should manufacturers make cars when they can make pixels. Sad world, there will be people who wont smell a hot rally car with mud baking on it. Seems that ISC still fail to understand the sport.

Yep quoted for truth. They might see this as less realistic but they should be trying to get spectators and competitors out in the stages rather than in front of a screen. Follow the rally like people used to.

[HaCo]

MJW and Simmi: that's a narrow mind view on the whole idea of making a rallygame.

I don't have the money to spectate every round of the WRC and if I'm at home it would be great to drive some of the stages the WRC drivers are doing. Just like I'm having fun watching the stages in google earth, split times, results or listen to the rally radio.

There is a lot that can be done to make this sport more attractive, apart from the sportive side (okay, there are some issues to solve there, uhum, a lot). The digital platform has so much potential, also for rallying. Why not exploit it, gain some money on it and use it for the events, instead of asking so much $$$ to organizers and drivers. This platform gives extra attention to the sport, the sponsors, instead of only seeing cars on MotorsTV.

[Gard]

Yep quoted for truth. They might see this as less realistic but they should be trying to get spectators and competitors out in the stages rather than in front of a screen. Follow the rally like people used to.
That will not attract enough people to get any sponsors interested. Only massive TV coverage or ... dare I say so... gaming will. In the western world today, people under 25 spend more time in front of a game screen than a TV

[sal]

Can see where they are going with the gaming aspect as it will be a revenue stream far away the traditional market. Lets be honest not that many people have fought cave trolls in real life (unless you've been to Cardiff on a Friday night) but millions of adolescent (either physical or mental) males around the world do so every day on thier ickle consoles. Colin became famous whilst most gamers didnt realise he was a real person.

The only danger I can forsee is that ISC further alienate the "traditional" audience if that term can still be applied whilst looking after the new cash cow.

[Simmi]

I'm not saying the WRC shouldn't make use of new media. Quite the opposite. I will be one of the first to buy the game, but really all the stuff they are gushing sounds unachievable. Comparing your time to Loeb etc. Nigh on impossible to replicate a rally stage in that detail. It is obviously a big thing for ISC though as they keep talking about it.

What I would like to see is them making more practical additions to their online services. If they say they own the GPS and everything it would be nice to see where the cars are in the stage, and if a car stops you see that it has stopped and where. I'm sure they use this kind of technology on the Dakar website. They could really do a much better job of following a stage online. If you look at F1 split/lap times it is designed so you dont have to refresh.

Live onboards online would be a good feature, and a link to a camera at the end of the stage for an interview. Ideally if something happens in the stage the fans could have seen it live or within moments of it happening. The optimum 'wet dream' scenario would be something like the 'eye in the sky' footage we had back in 2006. That in one corner, maybe an onboard feed so you can pick your favourite driver. Plus then adding in split times/leaderboards and possible GPS tracking. That is what they should be striving for IMO. That would really be something. I'd even pay for it but it should be free if possible.

I still think they should try and do some live broadcasts of stages using external cameras too. Onboards are fine but they can't really help showcase sponsors. They could try and put these online at a decent quality. I think youtube is supposedly moving into live media streaming so this could be added to the wrc youtube channel. That would open you and sponsors/teams up to millions. Maybe it is the answer in some cases to skip past TV for live coverage. It can't compete with the internet's reach. Facebook and twitter is all good too just to cover those bases and they have all that in place.

I just hope the new website is finally a website rally fans deserve. The current one is pretty poor. You almost can't see the news stories for the advertisements.

[HaCo]

Good ideas Simmi!

[sollitt]

Hmmm, so the salvation of our World series lies in an interactive PlayStation game and getting 7 year olds involved.
I always thought it was about fair and consistent rules ... and affordability.

[Daniel]

Truer words have never been spoken Solitt........

[Barreis]

No afFORDability.. GIVEEE MEEE ALLLL YOUUU GOTTTT.. (Mr Wilson, Mr Richards and Mr Quesnell) xd

[Simmi]

It's funny how people are still blaming Dave Richards for the state of the WRC.

And Barreis I assume you mention Wilson/Quesnell for their customer car programmes. In your opinion should they just run their two works cars and leave it at that? Hence leaving the WRC with a grand total of 4 WRC's per event.

Or should they set aside say four other cars for the world's next best drivers and run them for free out of kindness until their entire team budgets run dry?

I don't like the phrase but as they say: 'don't hate the player, hate the game'.

[jonkka]

Interesting points, sir Simmi.


I will be one of the first to buy the game, but really all the stuff they are gushing sounds unachievable. Comparing your time to Loeb etc. Nigh on impossible to replicate a rally stage in that detail.

It may sound incredible but really, without any further details it's a bit like declining a dinner invitation because food would likely be bad and service would likely be rude - before you even know what's on the menu.

I played the original official WRC series games only once and I think it was the very first one (and on console, as they were never released to proper gaming platforms). It was somewhat rough on the edges but very interesting concept and had it been PC game, I would likely have played it a lot.

Without knowing the details of what they are going to offer, I have to say the concept looks good on paper again this time. The schedule from announcement to delivery is quite short so either they have been doing it behind the scenes for a long - or they are going to base it on some existing platform - or they are going to botch it big time. But really, think about it: driving the same stages as the drivers when rally is in progress - at that moment the rally heat in your head is at it's highest.


What I would like to see is them making more practical additions to their online services. --snip-- They could really do a much better job of following a stage online. If you look at F1 split/lap times it is designed so you dont have to refresh.

Yeah, I agree that wrc.com leaves a lot to be desired. The funny thing is, it's designed and implemented by professionals.

It should not have live video on front page - just try to open the site with mobile device or on slow connection.
Servers get choked during rallies when people refresh the splits and stage results - what can be more annoying than not knowing the results when fight is on?
Live splits could take advantage of the GPS tracking info and display at least something if drivers have problems. Missing splits is by far too common and causes anxiety.

Plus all those things you listed.

[I am evil Homer]

WRC needs a console game...it can help people get interested in WRC and i'm all for it. However it's not going to help the WRC itself...they need to agree the rules moving forward ASAP to encourage teams and manufacturers to sign up!

[Hartusvuori]

WRC cars make a comeback to gaming world next March when Gran Turismo 5 is released. It said to be official license from WRC, having cars from 2008 season. I'm not an expert in games (like I mention, all I have is PS1 and Colin McRae 2!), but GT5 looks so that it'll raise a lot of interest. So, if there'll be an official WRC game out 6 months later, let's just hope they'll do it properly and GT5 buzz will add up to WRC buzz (= which thus far is rather non-existent).

[Lousada]

It looks like the target audience is going to be celeb-obsessed 7-15 year olds. From those two autosport articles I don't see anything what people over 25 years old would appeal.
The current sponsors are aiming at people with disposable income (car manufacturers, oil companies, transport companies, home-applianceshops, holiday destinations). I wonder how much they care about 100.000 spotty teens playing a videogame. This new direction requires a big shift in thinking. I am not really sure it will work.

[Simmi]

It may sound incredible but really, without any further details it's a bit like declining a dinner invitation because food would likely be bad and service would likely be rude - before you even know what's on the menu.

I played the original official WRC series games only once and I think it was the very first one (and on console, as they were never released to proper gaming platforms). It was somewhat rough on the edges but very interesting concept and had it been PC game, I would likely have played it a lot.

Without knowing the details of what they are going to offer, I have to say the concept looks good on paper again this time. The schedule from announcement to delivery is quite short so either they have been doing it behind the scenes for a long - or they are going to base it on some existing platform - or they are going to botch it big time. But really, think about it: driving the same stages as the drivers when rally is in progress - at that moment the rally heat in your head is at it's highest.


You are right about not dismissing the game too early jonkka. I had all the previous WRC games and enjoyed them. My issue isn't with them releasing a game.

What annoyed me really was at this global technology forum the WRC contingent gets up on stage. And announces we have a videogame coming out. Then they embelish that with these aspirations to have people competing with Loeb etc. I believe that to be their vision for the future and not something the game will actually feature next year. It's just fantasy fluff trying to hype the situation up when the reality is they just have a computer game coming out.

Now that to me is a tad embarassing really. I think the idea will end up in the same scrap bin as the dedicated WRC TV channel Simon Long was pitching this time two years ago. He was using the exact same quotes back then too about all the spare footage they had. And by spare I take that to mean not good enough to be 'highlights worthy'.

And as I wrote in my previous post there are a lot of things the ISC probably should be focusing on instead of throwing all their eggs in one basket. What about the many many current rally fans who are suffering and disillusioned? Where is the announcement for these people...

[wrc_flipper]

After the motorsport council meeting the following events have been altered.

31/3-3/4 - Rally Jordan (runs Wednesday to Saturday)
7-11/7 BGR Rally Bulgaria (now extended into Sunday)
28-31/7 FIN Rally Finland (runs Wednesday to Saturday)

[Hartusvuori]

28-31/7 FIN Rally Finland (runs Wednesday to Saturday)

I doubt there will be any competetive driving in NORF on Wednesday. Mr. Mahonen - if you're on the forum, tell us!

[wrc_flipper]

I doubt there will be any competetive driving in NORF on Wednesday. Mr. Mahonen - if you're on the forum, tell us!

Probably just the ceremonial start, but may miss out on Thursday action due to being at work! :(

[Barreis]

It's funny how people are still blaming Dave Richards for the state of the WRC.

And Barreis I assume you mention Wilson/Quesnell for their customer car programmes. In your opinion should they just run their two works cars and leave it at that? Hence leaving the WRC with a grand total of 4 WRC's per event.

Or should they set aside say four other cars for the world's next best drivers and run them for free out of kindness until their entire team budgets run dry?

I don't like the phrase but as they say: 'don't hate the player, hate the game'.

It should be more affordable.. Price of renting WRC car should be the same as group N4 now but not S2000.. They want prices as F1 but how much better position has F1 in media.. It's stupid that You must pay 180 000 euros for a long weekend in C4 WRC.. No affordability..
In 2007 it was about 90000 GBP for rent of focus 2005 for Acropolis from RAM sport..

[JFL]

For the amount of money they are charging, you should at least get the latest spec.. Not some B-car..

[Barreis]

For that amount of money you should build a house or buy a f430.. LOL

[RallyCat909]

David Richards was talking about the WRC franchise connection with videogames back in 2000. Considering that ISC has all the available extra media, why not make it available to the buying public? A smart thing to do would be giving access to say, XboxLive users (as an example) to a remote datebase of footage, stagetimes, in-car, etc. This could work well with an image of 'hi-tech' as it were that ISC and the WRC seems to be looking for.

Personally, if I was spending the time and money for all this available media (250 hours per rally) I would find a way to get it to a customer that really wants it.

I'd drop off $70 for a 'WRC Experience' for sure.