What is going on with Qadbak/Sauber?

[RS]

Last I heard the FIA were awaiting some clarification from Toyota about what they would do with their F1 slot. I presume Toyota are attempting to sell the slot.

Hopefully they will get on with it soon because now it seems that Toyota are holding up any chance of us having another team and more drivers on the grid for next year.

Anyone know any more?

[ioan]

Not too much in the press about this. Hopefully Sauber can get the vacant slot for next season.

[Garry Walker]

Not too much in the press about this. Hopefully Sauber can get the vacant slot for next season.

http://www.sonntagszeitung.ch/home/artikel-detailseite/?newsid=108305

[UltimateDanGTR]

http://www.sonntagszeitung.ch/home/artikel-detailseite/?newsid=108305

forgive me but my german isnt the best, but i take it its looking quite negative from what i interprit. shame.

If I am wrong, sorry

[ioan]

http://www.sonntagszeitung.ch/home/artikel-detailseite/?newsid=108305

Thanks for the link.

Strange that they say that Qadbak doesn't have any kind of investors behind and that the Bahrain Capital Investement is also just a mock up of this King guy.
However they do not elaborate at all how did this guy manage to convince BMW, Rotschild Bank and especially Sauber if he has no money at all.

Looks to me like a bit of a sensationalist article with little documentation to back up it's claims.

The author also seems to not know that the teams do not get TV money in teh first year they are competing in F1.

[curry]

Last I heard the FIA were awaiting some clarification from Toyota about what they would do with their F1 slot. I presume Toyota are attempting to sell the slot.

Hopefully they will get on with it soon because now it seems that Toyota are holding up any chance of us having another team and more drivers on the grid for next year.

I thought I read a quote from John Howett that they unlikely to sell the team, but would rather concentrate on selling the 'car'.

[I am evil Homer]

I imagine it legal people holding this up...after all F1 contracts and liabilities etc are pretty complex, there are huge fees involved, IP matters all of which could take a while to unravel and put back together.

[CNR]

tv


i heard last night on Race of Champions telecast that there would not be the 14 teams in f1 next year

[CNR]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80312

The BMW Sauber team says it still does


http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135921

[RS]

So the FIA could fine Toyota for not complying to the concorde agreement which they previously signed, why not just let them off if they relinquish their grid slot?

[I am evil Homer]

Because they get money the other way that's why!

[Garry Walker]

The author also seems to not know that the teams do not get TV money in teh first year they are competing in F1.

Is that still the case or was that with the old concorde agreement?
There has been so much BS with all that this year that I am not sure what is the case anymore.

[ioan]

Is that still the case or was that with the old concorde agreement?
There has been so much BS with all that this year that I am not sure what is the case anymore.

Not 100% sure either. Maybe it changed.

However they still need to wait the end of next season to get the money, so I doubt that any investor expects to get the money in advance and use it to run a team.

[Sonic]

Not 100% sure either. Maybe it changed.

However they still need to wait the end of next season to get the money, so I doubt that any investor expects to get the money in advance and use it to run a team.

Unless they are seriously mis-informed.

[Nikki Katz]

It doesn't look like Sauber have stable enough backers, if they even exist. Didn't the bloke behind Qadbak go to prison for fraud?

Besides, this is F1, it's about politics, not racing. It's been, ooh, days since the last lawsuit. They're just building us up for the next big scandal next week when the FIA will enter Toyota as the 13th team against their wishes.

[Sonic]

The team formerly known as BMW Sauber are going to put a couple of young guns behind the wheel next week Autosport is reporting. So at least they are still opperating with staff on board etc.

[V12]

I found this - http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=352833&FS=F1

Whichever way you look at it, it doesn't look good, no smoke without fire etc. It's just a shame Sauber wasn't able to get entire control back himself and carry on as before. I know BMW would never have done what Honda did for Brawn, but they'd be arguably better off than they are now.

[ioan]

I found this - http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=352833&FS=F1

Whichever way you look at it, it doesn't look good, no smoke without fire etc. It's just a shame Sauber wasn't able to get entire control back himself and carry on as before. I know BMW would never have done what Honda did for Brawn, but they'd be arguably better off than they are now.

BMW deserve what they are getting (and I say that as a huge BMW motorsport fan), but Sauber doesn't deserve such. :\

[Sonic]

Well that proper sucks.

It strikes me as similar to the Portsmouth debacle in footy....

[V12]

Official - Team sold back to Peter Sauber, Qadbak gone

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80350

:D great news! Here's hoping they can find their way onto the grid for 2010 now.

[Sonic]

Now that is the second best news I have heard today! Welcome back Sauber Ferrari.

[Saint Devote]

Official - Team sold back to Peter Sauber, Qadbak gone

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80350

:D great news! Here's hoping they can find their way onto the grid for 2010 now.

:D I agree - absolutely delighted!

I hope they give the team the Toyota slot - or maybe USF1 will sell its space.....

Currently I think, if Sauber is included, the best case scenario is 24 cars on the grid. Least case I reckon is 22.

[ShiftingGears]

Official - Team sold back to Peter Sauber, Qadbak gone

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80350

:D great news! Here's hoping they can find their way onto the grid for 2010 now.

Fantastic.

[I am evil Homer]

Great news..Sauber is an asset to Motorsport so to see him at the head of the team again is very welcome! Lets hope the FIA lets them in.

[N. Jones]

I think, with the sale to Mr. Sauber, that Frank Williams will look more favorably on the team and allow them to join (I believe he is the holdup, correct?).

[V12]

I think, with the sale to Mr. Sauber, that Frank Williams will look more favorably on the team and allow them to join (I believe he is the holdup, correct?).

I just hope that everyone puts the sport first rather than thinking in commercial terms, teams need to be treated as competitors rather than assets or investments. As I've said before, if there was a closed shop system, like there is now, in 1969 or 1977, Williams probably wouldn't exist right now.

[ioan]

Excellent news. For what it's worth Sauber has always been my favorite privateer in F1 and I'm glad he's got his team back.

[ioan]

I think, with the sale to Mr. Sauber, that Frank Williams will look more favorably on the team and allow them to join (I believe he is the holdup, correct?).

Yep Williams is the one, the one who's always against the rest for whatever reason.

[jens]

I wonder, for how much has Sauber bought his team back. 1€ ? :D

[ioan]

I wonder, for how much has Sauber bought his team back. 1€ ? :D

Who knows? A few months ago 40 million was not enough, now they probably accepted 10.

[DexDexter]

Excellent news. For what it's worth Sauber has always been my favorite privateer in F1 and I'm glad he's got his team back.

I agree with you, the team has been a class act from the go. IMO they should try to retain Theissen if possible.

[gloomyDAY]

I agree with you, the team has been a class act from the go. IMO they should try to retain Theissen if possible.Why?! :vader:

[Roamy]

I agree with you, the team has been a class act from the go. IMO they should try to retain Theissen if possible.

are you out of your freaking mind. Retain this loser for what - polishing the cars

[DexDexter]

are you out of your freaking mind. Retain this loser for what - polishing the cars

Excuse me, why is Theissen a loser? Oh, he sacked Villeneuve, that's it! BMW did very well in F1 compared to lets say Toyota. They only had one bad season in F1. One must remember that when they took over Sauber, it wasn't a top team but under his management they fought for the championship in 2008. It isn't easy. Edit: Let me put it this way: Why shouldn't they retain Theissen? I see now evidence of the team being badly managed.

[ioan]

I agree with you, the team has been a class act from the go. IMO they should try to retain Theissen if possible.

Yep, Theissen is clearly someone who knows how to manage a team that is fighting for top positions. He also does a great job motivating the team and especially the drivers. The fact that he did stick with his drivers even when they had troubles is a good trait for a team manager.

[ioan]

are you out of your freaking mind. Retain this loser for what - polishing the cars

I'd like to see a list with your professional achievements cowboy! And no managing to sit on the back of a horse while talking rubbish isn't an achievement worth mentioning.

[ioan]

Excuse me, why is Theissen a loser? Oh, he sacked Villeneuve, that's it!

You hit a soft spot there! ;)

[ioan]

BTW Theissen has announced that he will continue to be BMW Motorsport boss.
And apparently Monday Sauber will be announced as 14th team in F1.

[woody2goody]

BTW Theissen has announced that he will continue to be BMW Motorsport boss.
And apparently Monday Sauber will be announced as 14th team in F1.

Hopefully :)

Also, they had better retain Heidfeld and Klien for the two seats. It wouldn't surprise me if they made a competitive car again too.

[DazzlaF1]

Hopefully :)

Also, they had better retain Heidfeld and Klien for the two seats. It wouldn't surprise me if they made a competitive car again too.

Not sure about Klien, but i think Heidfeld is a nailed on cert for the number 1 seat

[jens]

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/sauber-uebernimmt-134472

As for drivers, Peter Sauber has named the list of drivers competing for Sauber drive: Heidfeld, Trulli, Kovalainen, Kobayashi, de la Rosa, Klien, Petrov.

I'd personally expected Fisichella to be some kind of a contender due to his Ferrari connections as well, but besides that quite an expected list. If Trulli appears to have a choice between Lotus and Sauber, I hope he opts for the well-established Swiss team.

[pettersolberg29]

Not sure about Klien, but i think Heidfeld is a nailed on cert for the number 1 seat

Who for Mercedes then?

[DazzlaF1]

Who for Mercedes then?

Well it seems they're too busy trying to woo Schumacher, could come back to haunt them me thinks

[ioan]

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/sauber-uebernimmt-134472

As for drivers, Peter Sauber has named the list of drivers competing for Sauber drive: Heidfeld, Trulli, Kovalainen, Kobayashi, de la Rosa, Klien, Petrov.

I'd personally expected Fisichella to be some kind of a contender due to his Ferrari connections as well, but besides that quite an expected list. If Trulli appears to have a choice between Lotus and Sauber, I hope he opts for the well-established Swiss team.

I'd take Heidfeld and Kobayashi without hesitation.

[Roamy]

God someone please give him a spot on the grid so he can take two losers off the market. Come on Toad dive in???

God someone please give him a spot on the grid so he can take two losers off the market. Come on Toad dive in???

But Peter Sauber already gave a washed-up, over-the-hill yesterdays-man a chance once before.....he isn't going to employ Villenueve again.

[DexDexter]

But Peter Sauber already gave a washed-up, over-the-hill yesterdays-man a chance once before.....he isn't going to employ Villenueve again.

:up:

[milly]

One big question - where's the money coming from to make all this happen? Qadbak was 'the answer' because of the millions of dollars they had to buy and run the team.

No mention anywhere of the price Sauber paid BMW (if anything?????) or how Sauber plans to fund the season?

No good having a place in F1 if you don't have money to run the team.......

[ShiftingGears]

Hopefully :)

Also, they had better retain Heidfeld and Klien for the two seats. It wouldn't surprise me if they made a competitive car again too.

I did not see anything from Klien that should warrant him a drive ahead of fresh faces that show potential like Kobayashi.

[I am evil Homer]

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/sauber-uebernimmt-134472

As for drivers, Peter Sauber has named the list of drivers competing for Sauber drive: Heidfeld, Trulli, Kovalainen, Kobayashi, de la Rosa, Klien, Petrov.

I'd personally expected Fisichella to be some kind of a contender due to his Ferrari connections as well, but besides that quite an expected list. If Trulli appears to have a choice between Lotus and Sauber, I hope he opts for the well-established Swiss team.

Heidfeld and Koba/Heikki for me.

Trulli....past it.
de La Rosa...never had it, never will. Testing, yes. Race driver...dear god, no.
Klein...no better than Heikki been away from competition on race day
Petrov...unknown quantity

[I am evil Homer]

One big question - where's the money coming from to make all this happen? Qadbak was 'the answer' because of the millions of dollars they had to buy and run the team.

No mention anywhere of the price Sauber paid BMW (if anything?????) or how Sauber plans to fund the season?

No good having a place in F1 if you don't have money to run the team.......

Qadbank never had any money....it was a front. Are Petronas going to back him again?

Sauber's a clever man i'm sure he'll find a way to make it happen.

[milly]

Qadbank never had any money....it was a front. Are Petronas going to back him again?

Sauber's a clever man i'm sure he'll find a way to make it happen.


So BMW was happy to sell to a company that never had any money? Don't they do Due Diligence?

There's more to this than meets the eye - something's not right in this whole BMW / Sauber / Qadbak story - and BMW is trying to deflect attention from nearly selling Sauber into oblivion.....

[jens]

Heidfeld and Koba/Heikki for me.

Trulli....past it.
de La Rosa...never had it, never will. Testing, yes. Race driver...dear god, no.
Klein...no better than Heikki been away from competition on race day
Petrov...unknown quantity

If Heidfeld goes to Mercedes, Trulli would be the best choice for Sauber. As for being "past it"... Well, DC joined Red Bull in 2005 and there were doubts if he is any good any more. Result - he outdrove his young team-mates. Fisi's career was regarded as being over after Renault stint, but he joined Force India to outdrive Sutil. And Barrichello keeps going endlessly despite the age. I'm sure Trulli can still be competitive in the right environment. "Oldguard" drivers are written off too early and easily. I assume part of the reason, why Trulli-Lotus deal hasn't been announced yet is that he is waiting to see, what happens to Sauber.

[truefan72]

If Heidfeld goes to Mercedes, Trulli would be the best choice for Sauber. As for being "past it"... Well, DC joined Red Bull in 2005 and there were doubts if he is any good any more. Result - he outdrove his young team-mates. Fisi's career was regarded as being over after Renault stint, but he joined Force India to outdrive Sutil. And Barrichello keeps going endlessly despite the age. I'm sure Trulli can still be competitive in the right environment. "Oldguard" drivers are written off too early and easily. I assume part of the reason, why Trulli-Lotus deal hasn't been announced yet is that he is waiting to see, what happens to Sauber.

out of those 3 examples you mentioned only Barrichello performed admirably.

DC had a nice half season and Klien would have gotten 3rd on the podium if his car did not fail him in monaco, and would have done better if RBR did not decide on the stupid ride share deal with liuzzi. Before that he was doing just fine against DC.

Fisi did nothing at Force India bar one race. and then did nothing once he got to Ferrari. Trulli is a serviceable driver but past his prime and a little unhinged. I would employ Kobayashi, klien, petrov over him with only kovy being a push....and don;t get me started on De la Rosa.

[jens]

Klien was ahead of DC at Monaco only thanks to safety car. DC had qualified into Top10 and was clearly fighting for points, while Klien was somewhere 12th-13th before SC, so let's analyze the circumstances too. Overall DC beat Klien in both seasons and Trulli would do the same with him if they were paired together. If by "doing fine" you mean "not being too far behind" the likes of DC in Klien's case, then fair enough - tells about his level of quality.

As for Barrichello, do I need to remind that when late in 2007 he got lapped by Button in China and got destroyed by JB in Fuji qualifying (6th vs 17th), people were seriously doubting in RB and supposing he should retire. And at that time Rubens was at the same age as Trulli is now. Yet Barri bounced back in 2008-2009 with respectable campaigns. Trulli's weakness is that if the team is not behind him, he might struggle - surely a constantly bashing by teamboss in '09 didn't help likewise the problems at Renault in late-04. But in friendlier Sauber environment Trulli would excel.