The Independents

[Saint Devote]

As John Booth comments "even Mclaren is an independent now". It is exciting news that Manor - soon to be Virgin F1? - will fire the car up on January 24 and the shakedown begins on January 29!!! :D

Of course Timo Glock must extremely excited as well as Lucas di Grassi, likely to be the second driver.

Not to labor the point [why not?] - USF1 has not even commenced crash tests! USF1 defined themselves as being the new breed where information would be available - they are awfully reticent and have shown nothing of a car.

This does not make sense and how can Peter Windsor be upset at people when we have a team such as Manor now providing a date for the cars shakedown, Glock as the wheel? Huh?!

John Booth also made a great point that in the past, an independent team could buy a car from a manufacturer - just as engines are now - and go racing!!!! Different time and past era - but IS a great though, init?!! :s mokin:

Comments??

[ioan]

Nonsense.

[Valve Bounce]

Nonsense.

Que? :confused:

[Saint Devote]

Nonsense.

Well of course you would say that, I expect nothing else. You just hate everyone and I suspect yourself too.

I have never encountered someone as negative and sad as you :eek:

Amazing!!! :s mokin:

[Saint Devote]

Que? :confused:

Your Spanish punctuation is incorrect.

[PSfan]

As John Booth comments "even Mclaren is an independent now". It is exciting news that Manor - soon to be Virgin F1? - will fire the car up on January 24 and the shakedown begins on January 29!!! :D

Of course Timo Glock must extremely excited as well as Lucas di Grassi, likely to be the second driver.

Not to labor the point [why not?] - USF1 has not even commenced crash tests! USF1 defined themselves as being the new breed where information would be available - they are awfully reticent and have shown nothing of a car.

This does not make sense and how can Peter Windsor be upset at people when we have a team such as Manor now providing a date for the cars shakedown, Glock as the wheel? Huh?!

John Booth also made a great point that in the past, an independent team could buy a car from a manufacturer - just as engines are now - and go racing!!!! Different time and past era - but IS a great though, init?!! :s mokin:

Comments??

Glock as a wheel? Huh?!

And jumping on the USF1 hasn't crash tested yet bandwagon makes you look silly an many fronts. 2 weeks ago someone on windtunnel claimed that USF1 had already crash tested components. 2nd, I recall not to long ago teams failing the front crash test within a month of the opening race. When you make the first crash test isn't important, its when you pass the last one that counts...

and Que... is french... for what?

[pino]

ioan and Saint Devote, I am going to ask this only once : Take your personal and childish fight to PM or put eachother in your ignoring list, because if I catch you guys once again posting personal attacks/comments, you will be banned for a long long time.

[ioan]

ioan and Saint Devote, I am going to ask this only once : Take your personal and childish fight to PM or put eachother in your ignoring list, because if I catch you guys once again posting personal attacks/comments, you will be banned for a long long time.

Sorry pino but where did you see a personal attack?!
He asked a question and I gave an honest answer. Should I lie next time?

[Garry Walker]

Sorry pino but where did you see a personal attack?!
He asked a question and I gave an honest answer. Should I lie next time?

Whilst I am no big fan of the original thread starter, then your comment "nonsense" without elaborating, is just stupid and makes you look far worse than saint devote.

[71minus2]

http://www.mynewhandbag.com/images2/yhst-52138418228198_1953_22126604

[Saint Devote]

Glock as a wheel? Huh?!

And jumping on the USF1 hasn't crash tested yet bandwagon makes you look silly an many fronts. 2 weeks ago someone on windtunnel claimed that USF1 had already crash tested components. 2nd, I recall not to long ago teams failing the front crash test within a month of the opening race. When you make the first crash test isn't important, its when you pass the last one that counts...

and Que... is french... for what?

What do you mean Glock as a wheel?

I take my point from Ross Brawn who stated - diplomatically - surprise over the STAGE of crash testing for USF1. This is also well behind teams such as Manor and Lotus and I would say the Dallara-made car for Campos.

"Que" is Spanish.

[ioan]

Whilst I am no big fan of the original thread starter, then your comment "nonsense" without elaborating, is just stupid and makes you look far worse than saint devote.

I've got little time so I will not start a philosophical discussion about nonsense. :)

[Sonic]

Very well put Henners. It will be a pleasure to see - and perhaps the drivers will be slightly less bound by corporate speak and can say what they really feel (well we can hope).

As for USF1, I don't want them to fail because I want to see a strong grid next year but hiring the drivers they are and with so little visible progress from a team, that as St D says, is meant to be the most open on the grid; at the moment I would put their chances of putting two cars on the ground in less than 100 days as slim. I hope I'm wrong.

[PSfan]

What do you mean Glock as a wheel?

I believe thats what I was asking you:


This does not make sense and how can Peter Windsor be upset at people when we have a team such as Manor now providing a date for the cars shakedown, Glock as the wheel? Huh?!


I take my point from Ross Brawn who stated - diplomatically - surprise over the STAGE of crash testing for USF1. This is also well behind teams such as Manor and Lotus and I would say the Dallara-made car for Campos.

"The report seemed to come out of Switzerland/Germany, the land of BMW-Sauber," he told the online magazine GPWeek, referring to the fact that the Hinwil based team has not yet been granted a guaranteed berth on the 2010 grid.

Windsor said "several" components for the 2010 car have been "successfully" crash-tested, and that more tests will take place this and next month.

also shed doubt on the context of quotes attributed to Ross Brawn, where the Brackley based team's boss seemed to question whether USF1 will be ready to debut next March.

"Back in the real world, we're re-furbishing some trucks we've just bought from Brawn," said Windsor.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Content/FormulaOne/14/1f69125c3a7d447b9873ba8f5a4eef78/09-11-2009-02-34/USF1_hits_back_at_crash_test_rumours



"Que" is Spanish.

After reading this:
http://spanish.about.com/od/pronouns/a/que_relative_pronouns.htm

and this:
http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/que.htm

I have no doubt Valve was attempting French... but hey, maybe you should call up Ross Brawn for his opinion on the subject, give him a chance at another diplomatic statement...

[DazzlaF1]

A grid of 26 is I think what everyone wants to see

And none of us would like to see a team fail, but i understand why many people are being a bit sceptical about the 4 newbies coming in because F1 has been a closed shop for so long and fears that the new teams may not have the expertise and experience needed to be competitive. But the biggest problem i've seen is that the critics have always expected too much too soon.

As for USF1, you may have to consider that this may be the way they do things by not releasing much to the media, from the outside, it may look like little progress is being made, but you never know, they could be further ahead in their plans than everyone thinks.

And they did get a lot of positives from the FIA inspectors last month

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8296058.stm

[Saint Devote]

A grid of 26 is I think what everyone wants to see

And none of us would like to see a team fail, but i understand why many people are being a bit sceptical about the 4 newbies coming in because F1 has been a closed shop for so long and fears that the new teams may not have the expertise and experience needed to be competitive. But the biggest problem i've seen is that the critics have always expected too much too soon.

As for USF1, you may have to consider that this may be the way they do things by not releasing much to the media, from the outside, it may look like little progress is being made, but you never know, they could be further ahead in their plans than everyone thinks.

And they did get a lot of positives from the FIA inspectors last month

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8296058.stm

The Soviet Union approach to matters by USF1 is in direct contrast then to the Windsor stated policy of openness.

Hence - silence means nothing there to tell about!!

But time will tell as their apparent selection of a driver is a joke.

[woody2goody]

They may be at a more advanced stage with the car depsite the lack of testing compared to the other teams.

I'm sure I read something where they said they wanted the components to be made properly, strongly and not necessarily to the 1/1000th of a gram in order that they can pass the crash tests with no problems.

[K-Pu]

I don´t want any of the new teams to fail, in fact, a grid between 26 and 30 cars is way better than what we have been having in F1 last years...

And someone has to be the last on the grid, of course. Now we are used to have a much smaller difference between the first and the last car, but some years ago being 1.5 seconds off the pace was just great if you were a backmarker. Those were other times and they will not come back although all these new teams will make the grid look like in the 90´s, and even in these years, there were teams that sucked. A lot. And now what do we want? A grid with 26 earth-conquering cars? 26 FW14´s? We´ll see which of the new teams is the best when the season starts... and for now I hope them all to be in Bahrein with a good or not-exactly-good crap, sorry, car :D .

What if USF1 has not made public all their movements related to crash tests? Or what if they have not even started? I´m pretty sure they are trying to make it to the starting grid, because if not, what the hell are they doing? Wasting money? Waiting for the messiah?

[Rollo]

What if USF1 has not made public all their movements related to crash tests? Or what if they have not even started? I´m pretty sure they are trying to make it to the starting grid, because if not, what the hell are they doing? Wasting money? Waiting for the messiah?

I don't really think that this is much of an issue... yet. It's still only November 2009, we haven't even got to 2010 yet.

The Stewart SF1, was only launched in December of 1996, and then the first example failed crash tests in February of 1997. The SF01 finally passed crash testing on March 1 and the Australian GP was only 8 days later.

I also note that precisely no-one has made public launches of their 2010 cars yet. Is it a little premature to be demanding it of USF1?

[K-Pu]

I don't really think that this is much of an issue... yet. It's still only November 2009, we haven't even got to 2010 yet.

The Stewart SF1, was only launched in December of 1996, and then the first example failed crash tests in February of 1997. The SF01 finally passed crash testing on March 1 and the Australian GP was only 8 days later.

I also note that precisely no-one has made public launches of their 2010 cars yet. Is it a little premature to be demanding it of USF1?

That´s the point. It does not matter if USF1 has not made (or made public) anything related to crash tests, because it´s too soon. Saying things like (just an hypothetic and exaggerated example, the ones I like)...

"Lotus are waaay ahead of them because they did ´dis ´n´ ´dat ´n´ so on and USF1 is going to be crap ´cause they haven´t done the crash test unlike Lotus who has done it and they´re going to destroy USF1 ´cause they haven´t done the crash test and everyone knows that you have to do the crash tests 4 months before the start of the season because if you don´t you are not going to be 45 secs ahead of the McLarens and that´s what we exactly expect of a team with such a long and successful history in F1 like you, USF1"

This is more or less the impression I get when people say they don´t want to see "unsuccessful" teams in F1. IMVHO it´s better to think the other way round: I don´t want to see everything equally successful in F1, and seeing new teams grow and improve or hit and miss is something I missed very much these years when the only true new team we got was Super Aguri.

[Sonic]

Well Campos seem to be doing nicely;


Campos Meta 1's car for its debut Formula 1 season has been homologated by the FIA following a series of tests last week The homologation process was carried out a


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80325

So at the moment it terms of general progress so far the order seems to be;

Campos
Manor
Lotus
USF1

[V12]

I agree with those who effectively say that it isn't a PR race and the only thing that matters is a) that they turn up in Bahrain and b) how quick they are there, but it is nice to see these little bits of information from the new teams coming along, whether it's sponsor announcements, latest progress on their cars, driver signings, whatever.

Yes USF1 may turn up having given nothing away and blow the other three out of the water, but personally i'm just genuinely, well, interested in how these new entrants are getting on. For me they will be the highlight of 2010, because it's so long we've had ANY new team, and I don't think we've ever had four new constructors at once (The most I can think of in the past is three in 1988 with Rial, Dallara and EuroBrun. Coloni were sort-of new but appeared at the end of 1987 IIRC).

[Saint Devote]

I agree with those who effectively say that it isn't a PR race and the only thing that matters is a) that they turn up in Bahrain and b) how quick they are there, but it is nice to see these little bits of information from the new teams coming along, whether it's sponsor announcements, latest progress on their cars, driver signings, whatever.

Yes USF1 may turn up having given nothing away and blow the other three out of the water, but personally i'm just genuinely, well, interested in how these new entrants are getting on. For me they will be the highlight of 2010, because it's so long we've had ANY new team, and I don't think we've ever had four new constructors at once (The most I can think of in the past is three in 1988 with Rial, Dallara and EuroBrun. Coloni were sort-of new but appeared at the end of 1987 IIRC).

Thing is - other than USF1 the three other teams did not launch themselves declaring how open and they were going to be and that there would be VISUAL access at every step. And the reality is silence.

What do they expect?

Further - all the other teams have a trail to brick and mortar entities.

Manor is an existing racing team that is teamed with Nick Wirth whose technology was successfully used in the Acura projet in ALMS - and have announced their shakedown date as well as named Timo Glock as their driver.

Campos is also an existing racing team and has teamed with Dallara to manufacture the car. They have named Bruno Senna and he is already doing seat fittings and has commeneted on his delight on accommadation of his height - somewhat shorter than his uncle at 5'11.

Lotus has shown its progress with a car.

USF1 - nothing other than very sparse facilities and computer drawings as well as making out that buying and refurbishing a couple of used trucks....

Additional scepticism is that the team is thousands of miles across the ocean away from the foundation of f1 - well they have SAID they will make Aragonland their Euro base - and they have no link to any racing entity.

There is a significant emptiness in the space where USF1 is supposed to be and we are 110 days away from Sakhir.

Maybe they intend to sell their position in f1??