F1 National Teams?

[christophulus]

Something I've noticed with the recent speculation is that we're going to have several teams with strong links to a country next year, rather than the mix we've had up until now. This is now spreading to the drivers that team chooses.

Assuming the rumours so far are true:

McLaren - team GB, two British drivers, looking at building their own engine

Mercedes - state they want a German driver to win in a German team, two German drivers?

USF1 - name speaks for itself, wants US drivers long term

Lotus - Malaysian backed, with a long term aim of Malaysian drivers

Campos - ditto for Spanish/Latin, preference for a Spanish driver to partner Senna but finances may say otherwise

Force India - and again, but the search for an Indian driver isn't coming along too quickly

Renault - rumours (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/a-flight-of-blue-fancy/) that they're hoping to rebrand as a more French-orientated team and are looking for a French driver to partner Kubica

Red Bull - proud to be an Austrian team and (rightly) complained when the wrong anthem was played after Vettel's win in China

I just find it slightly odd that so many teams are making a big deal about their country of origin, maybe heading back to the early days of F1 with the Silver Arrows, Ferrari, a handful of British manufacturers. Up until now, in the UK particularly, no one has made a big deal about being a British team, people tend to follow the drivers.

With the notable exception of the tifosi in Italy, does anyone care about their 'national' team or do you follow them for other reasons?

[nigelred5]

Hmm, curious timing of all this speculation surrounding nationalism with the demise of A1GP. Is Bernie stealing yet another gimmic from another openwheel series?

[Saint Devote]

National teams would be the death of f1 and cause people such as myself to switch-off permanently. It would be a throwback to a nationalist era, a time when "national champions" were the rule and another step regressing away from capitalism.

The extent that teams do make a fuss of nationality should be stopped by the FIA.

The most ridiculous thing of course is when drivers paint themselves in national colors - most of them, for example Button, have not lived in that country for TEN years and do not do so now.

It is beyond high time that anthems and flags disappear from motor racing - unfortunately there are powers in f1 that admire dictators and collude with them through grabbing government money and disregarding the nature of a world championship.

If Mercedes Benz in any way portrays themselves as a "German" team I would not support any driver that they would hire.

[airshifter]

To some extent nationalism plays a part in all of motor racing, and also in our car buying. This isn't to say that all people will buy a car (when possible) that has origins in the country they live in, or were born in.

But people brand cars somewhat with those "national" traits.

I can't say that I can blame the teams really. If I had a team from a nation that developed a car from that nation, I would hope that I could find a driver from that nation to properly represent the development and racing ability of that car. Better yet bring home a WDC.


And take a look at Ferrari. Once that national pride becomes part of the team, they always have a strong backing. Having a nation support you can't be a bad thing.



As for me, I won't have any problem supporting USF1 as the new hopeful. That won't stop me from supporting the teams I've supported for years, but might have an influence on which of the new teams I hope do well. In the case of USF1 I think we are screwed.... they need a US driver. :laugh:

[woody2goody]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with showing national pride, but I fear that national agendas can take precedent over common sense, such as Mercedes today.

They are set to miss out on all the positive attention that Button would bring them as a champion, instead wishing to focus on their dream of two German drivers, which may or may not go well.

I've never thought of F1 as supporting national teams/drivers.

In fact, out of my 5 favourite drivers, only Button makes it in (Hamilton 6th for me).

Ferrari is an exception in Italy. It is more than a team, it is a national (and international) institution, with it's ties deep in Italy, and thus the support of the Tifosi is extremely admirable through thick and thin.

[Saint Devote]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with showing national pride, but I fear that national agendas can take precedent over common sense, such as Mercedes today.

They are set to miss out on all the positive attention that Button would bring them as a champion, instead wishing to focus on their dream of two German drivers, which may or may not go well.

I've never thought of F1 as supporting national teams/drivers.

In fact, out of my 5 favourite drivers, only Button makes it in (Hamilton 6th for me).

Ferrari is an exception in Italy. It is more than a team, it is a national (and international) institution, with it's ties deep in Italy, and thus the support of the Tifosi is extremely admirable through thick and thin.

I agree with you. Well put!

[Saint Devote]

To some extent nationalism plays a part in all of motor racing, and also in our car buying. This isn't to say that all people will buy a car (when possible) that has origins in the country they live in, or were born in.

But people brand cars somewhat with those "national" traits.

I can't say that I can blame the teams really. If I had a team from a nation that developed a car from that nation, I would hope that I could find a driver from that nation to properly represent the development and racing ability of that car. Better yet bring home a WDC.


And take a look at Ferrari. Once that national pride becomes part of the team, they always have a strong backing. Having a nation support you can't be a bad thing.

As for me, I won't have any problem supporting USF1 as the new hopeful. That won't stop me from supporting the teams I've supported for years, but might have an influence on which of the new teams I hope do well. In the case of USF1 I think we are screwed.... they need a US driver. :laugh:

National pride is one thing, but the nationalism of Mercedes and the connotations of Silver cars and German drivers....... is quite another.

No.

[ShiftingGears]

National pride is one thing, but the nationalism of Mercedes and the connotations of Silver cars and German drivers....... is quite another.

No.

I was waiting for how long it would take before some moron made a subtle Nazi reference. Well done.

[Alfa Fan]

The odds on Saint Devote being that moron were quite short though.

[MakinenLoeb]

When i watched the A1GP i didn't really care about the national teams. i think racing is better when drivers are in team they are good in. It's better when there are good drivers not just because they are in a team from there native counrty.

[Valve Bounce]

Something I've noticed with the recent speculation is that we're going to have several teams with strong links to a country next year, rather than the mix we've had up until now. This is now spreading to the drivers that team chooses.

Assuming the rumours so far are true:

McLaren - team GB, two British drivers, looking at building their own engine

Mercedes - state they want a German driver to win in a German team, two German drivers?

USF1 - name speaks for itself, wants US drivers long term

Lotus - Malaysian backed, with a long term aim of Malaysian drivers

Campos - ditto for Spanish/Latin, preference for a Spanish driver to partner Senna but finances may say otherwise

Force India - and again, but the search for an Indian driver isn't coming along too quickly

Renault - rumours (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/a-flight-of-blue-fancy/) that they're hoping to rebrand as a more French-orientated team and are looking for a French driver to partner Kubica

Red Bull - proud to be an Austrian team and (rightly) complained when the wrong anthem was played after Vettel's win in China

I just find it slightly odd that so many teams are making a big deal about their country of origin, maybe heading back to the early days of F1 with the Silver Arrows, Ferrari, a handful of British manufacturers. Up until now, in the UK particularly, no one has made a big deal about being a British team, people tend to follow the drivers.

With the notable exception of the tifosi in Italy, does anyone care about their 'national' team or do you follow them for other reasons?

So true - and that's why Rossi rides a Yamaha and that Aussi KC is riding with a Spaniard for Ducatti.

[Saint Devote]

When i watched the A1GP i didn't really care about the national teams. i think racing is better when drivers are in team they are good in. It's better when there are good drivers not just because they are in a team from there native counrty.

I agree. It appears Mercedes disagree with you - but we shall see how far down the nationalist route they are prepared to go in the next few weeks.

[Mark]

You just have to look at Ferrari. You won't find a team more fiercely patrotic than them. But they take a pragmatic approach when employing drivers, in taking the best available to them, regardless of nationality.

I find it rather sad that, while of course I support the British drivers, but some drivers seem to find themselves in F1 just because they happened to have been born in a particular country, not because they are the best.

[V12]

I think a bit of national flavour in a team can be good, but degenerating to some sort of A1GP-style "Team *Enter country here*"s would be awful and gimmicky, I still don't like the names "Force India" or "USF1", but wouldn't mind if they were called something more traditional sounding but had an Indian/American theme respectively.

[Mark]

I think a bit of national flavour in a team can be good, but degenerating to some sort of A1GP-style "Team *Enter country here*"s would be awful and gimmicky, I still don't like the names "Force India" or "USF1", but wouldn't mind if they were called something more traditional sounding but had an Indian/American theme respectively.

Agreed. Personally I would prefer if Force India was just called Mallya-Mercedes or something like that. Then have an Indian inspired livery etc. At least with Force India they aren't just hiring Indian drivers because they are Indian...

[Sonic]

National pride is one thing, but the nationalism of Mercedes and the connotations of Silver cars and German drivers....... is quite another.

No.

GROAN!

[Somebody]

And St Dev loses this discussion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's%20law). Points all round except to him.

[jens]

Aww... Well, A1GP has gone into bankruptcy, so someone has to take over it from them, why not the royal class of motorsports then? :p :

I would like to clarify/add a bit though. :p :
Campos aka Pyrenees Racing in terms of language (Senna + Maldonado);
Asian Team (Lotus + Sato/Kobayashi + Fauzy as reserve);
Ferrari - A Latin team with emotional people (Massa + Alonso);
I may add one more potential national team - MegaFon buys Renault and Petrov becomes their race driver. :D

Shame that an African Team is missing. And surely Aussies/Kiwis could create something like Oceania Racing too. :D

[Saint Devote]

Aww... Well, A1GP has gone into bankruptcy, so someone has to take over it from them, why not the royal class of motorsports then? :p :

I would like to clarify/add a bit though.
Campos aka Pyrenees Racing in terms of language (Senna + Maldonado);
Asian Team (Lotus + Sato/Kobayashi + Fauzy as reserve);
Ferrari - A Latin team with emotional people (Massa + Alonso);
I may add one more potential national team - MegaFon buys Renault and Petrov becomes their race driver. :D

Shame that an African Team is missing. And surely Aussies/Kiwis could create something like Oceania Racing too. :D

The only realistic team from Africa would be from South Africa. Naturally the number 1 driver would be Tomas Scheckter :D

I hope Vitaly Petrov is selcted as a driver for one of the new teams. Athough his mother may be a negative factor!!! She tends to physically attack team members when Vitaly hits mechanical problems :eek:

[ArrowsFA1]

Assuming the rumours so far are true:

McLaren - team GB, two British drivers, looking at building their own engine

Mercedes - state they want a German driver to win in a German team, two German drivers?

USF1 - name speaks for itself, wants US drivers long term

Lotus - Malaysian backed, with a long term aim of Malaysian drivers

Campos - ditto for Spanish/Latin, preference for a Spanish driver to partner Senna but finances may say otherwise

Force India - and again, but the search for an Indian driver isn't coming along too quickly

Renault - rumours (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/a-flight-of-blue-fancy/) that they're hoping to rebrand as a more French-orientated team and are looking for a French driver to partner Kubica

Red Bull - proud to be an Austrian team and (rightly) complained when the wrong anthem was played after Vettel's win in China
A close look at all of those teams shows that nationality has little or no relevance IMHO.

Take McLaren for example - formed by a New Zealander, based in Britain, co-owned by a Saudi, multinational sponsors and team members, and powered by Mercedes. Ok, so they might have two British drivers next year but those drivers happen to be the 2008 and 2009 WDC's!! I tend to think that fact is more important than where they were born.

I don't think there's any particular move to make F1 teams nationality based, and certainly there's no copying of a failed series with a failed concept! As ever it comes down to money, and where that money comes from. Once upon a time there were just trade suppliers and national colours. Then Gold Leaf arrived and re-painted the cars. Now the likes of India and Malaysia are putting money into F1. It's all about the money :p

[Bezza]

My God, what an over-reaction.

A1 has gone tits up - about time, it was rubbish.

McLaren hire Button and Mercedes come in and all of a sudden its the national championship! Button is the world champion and that is why McLaren are interested, not because he is British. There is no credence to the initial post at all!

[christophulus]

My God, what an over-reaction.

A1 has gone tits up - about time, it was rubbish.

McLaren hire Button and Mercedes come in and all of a sudden its the national championship! Button is the world champion and that is why McLaren are interested, not because he is British. There is no credence to the initial post at all!

You misunderstand me I think. I'm not suggesting that F1 is turning into A1GP, far from it. I was merely remarking that a lot of the teams are making a big point about their country of origin, something which hasn't been seen up until now. USF1, Campos, 1Malaysia/Lotus, Force India etc seem to want drivers from their home nation if at all possible.

[V12]

It's nothing new in itself though, although I do see your point about a lot of teams with vaguely national themes, although I wouldn't include Campos in that list, they are likely to run a Brazilian and a Russian or Venezuelan next year, have a proper team name, and don't they have some Arab backing/shareholders/links (well who doesn't these days).

For years we had Ligier with a French colour scheme, mostly French drivers, and running a French engine for many years as well. Dan Gurney's team was called "All American Racers" but his cars were built under the (infinitely better) Eagle name. Indeed in its formative years McLaren, despite being British-based had a big New Zealand theme with Hulme driving alongside Bruce himself of course, and many team members from down under too.

To sum up my viewpoint, nationalism is/can be a good thing for F1, provided it is in moderation, which in my mind it always has been, and still is (FI and USF1's team names not withstanding).

Oh, and:


A1 has gone tits up - about time, it was rubbish.


:up: :up: :up: took the words right out of my mouth!

[F1boat]

The extent that teams do make a fuss of nationality should be stopped by the FIA.

I disagree. I personally am not a nationalist and think that Mercedes will make a mistake if they choose Heidfeld over Jenson, but to force people not to be nationalist IS dictatorship.
BTW, is it true that Vitaly's mother attacks mechanics? Video? This will be hillarious!