Fiat

[Buzz Lightyear]

What next?

Abarth boss Nico Gullino leaves the team
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80142

[Sulland]

What next?

Hopefully more money from Fiat to Abarth, and then a updated car that can win again !

[RS]

Well, I rather hear this news that the team boss has been sacked than they quit rallying altogether.

Don't forget the car was still capable of winning this year, and very competitive on smoother tarmac events still.

They wouldn't have done so bad in the manufacturers chase if they had had a decent driver in the 2nd car for the whole year.

[Mirek]

Hopefully more money from Fiat to Abarth, and then a updated car that can win again !

Doesn't look like that...

[Helstar]

I think it's over or starting to be over for Abarth but hope to be wrong.

[PLuto]

We will see...

[Sulland]

If they had put a few of the millions they gave Iceman not to drive in 2010 to development, they could have saved the team.

And they need more sponsorship, and a new colourscheme on the workscars, but the most important thing is to get the cars to work better !

[Buzz Lightyear]

I think the problem is the new punto is not on sale until 2011, so it will be another year of making up the numbers. The managment did seem a bit all over the place with driver selection. The car seems quick only on very tighter european tarmac rallies, for which it was probably designed, outside that it seems to lack pace.

[HaCo]

You probably mean wider tarmac rally? The tight ones like barum and ypres they weren't with the fastest either...

[RS]

IMO it's not whether the road is tight or not, it's whether it is smooth.

The Punto was fast on Madeira, Asturias and Sanremo (just like last year) and not so good on bumpy Barum for example. I guess the Punto's suspension is not so good as the Fabia or 207.

Plus Basso seems to be some kind of superstar on these rallies. Look how much slower Duval was than Rossetti in Sanremo, and Duval was probably one of the closer ones to Loeb in WRC on tarmac.

[Mirek]

In my opinion it's mostly question of two phenomenas.

Abarth works realy well with very hard setup which is great for events with smooth roads. On bumpy surface all Abarths look too hard. I agree with RS.

Another thing is that Abarth used to run with shorter gearbox due to lack of engine torque and while shorter gearbox is generaly better for twisty roads like Sanremo or Asturias, it's worse for very fast events like Barum or Ypres.

Most of the roads in Sanremo are very narrow, the same is with Asturias where there also a large part of the roads are quite bumpy. That's why I think it's mostly about average and maximal speeds and Abarth's weaker engine/shorter gearbox.

[Barreis]

Basso is ERC champ.. What else?!

[Josti]

Basso is ERC champ.. What else?!

The ERC is a shadow of it's former self these days. IRC is the main category for them and they pretty much got outperformed by Peugeot (again) and newcomer Skoda this season.

Let's hope Abarth continues, I would be thrilled to see them make the step to WRC in the future.

[HaCo]

IMHO ERC is better than before. There were several drivers competing for the championship this year, compare that to the years where WRC were allowed: I remember Thiry vs Campos for example (only 2 I mean).

Agree, the level is lower than IRC and certainly WRC. But there are several cars competing which is something.

Who is in for next year? Tsulak with the Skoda (replaced his C2 S1600)? The regular ones?

Something I don't understand in Belgium for example drivers like Loix, Duval, Princen, Casier, ... look for budgets to compete in IRC or even (J)WRC. But why don't they try ERC, which is cheaper I guess (next year only 5 events count).

Basso and Abarth deserves the ERC crown!

[Abarth]

Was someone sending their Abarth engine to france to see if they could get more out of the engine ? Who was that, and to what tuner?

[Mirek]

Some team ordered new engine from RDM Moteurs. I don't know which one, maybe GPC (?).

[alleskids]

That new engine is the secret weapon for entering the SWRC were ProRally was reffering to?

[Sulland]

Since the Abarth was made in 05/06 I guess a thing or two has happened, not only to the engine, but also to the suspension/undertray, compared to the newest ones.

How is that on the Abarth, we know that it is fast on tarmac, but is it much difference on suspension travel btw the Abarth and the Fiesta or Fabia ?

If things like this could be updated, the competitiveness of these machines would stay longer, and gain the privateers !

[Mirek]

Yes, these cars have very different suspension geometry.

[Sulland]

]Yes, these cars have very different suspension geometry.

But can the Fiat Abarth be improved, with Reiger, new parts - to improve.
There are 40+ cars produced, that could be improved with a Mid Life Update (MLU) !

[macksrallye]

I don't know why Abarth didn't/don't focus on the development of the cars themselves (S2000, R3T etc.) and get a team like Grifone to run their team in the IRC. Simular to the way the Peugeot/Kronos partnership works. Abarth could support on driver in the team (ie: Basso). Surely this would be the way to go as running a team day-to-day in an International Championship & trying to develop a car at the same time must be extremely difficult.

[Sulland]

Yes, and that could still be an option.
The Abarth team has tons of data that on the car, and know where the car need to be improved. All these data could be freed up to all team running GP's, and then agree with the customers on a few places to improve. Then get firm orders from x owners for the kit.
Then Abarth takes responsibility to have the new parts developed, homologated, and produced - and sell it as a Evo 1 Kit.

Good business for all parties involved !?

[RS]

This all sounds like a nice idea, but I think the Punto is pretty much dead.

It's a shame. I still think they could have done ok in the IRC with a team of Basso and Rossetti. Basso and the Punto were still capable of wins still on Asturias, Sanremo, Madeira at least but I guess the latest evo of the Fabia and the new Fiesta will also move things on another step...

[DonJippo]

I don't know why Abarth didn't/don't focus on the development of the cars themselves (S2000, R3T etc.) and get a team like Grifone to run their team in the IRC.

Didn't seem to work too well last year so why would it work this year any better?

[Wasted Talent]

]Yes, these cars have very different suspension geometry.


Just look at the suspension travel - Fiat looks like a converted road car - Fiesta looks like a WRC car.

WT

[Sulland]

What possibilities does a private team have to develop and have changes homologated ?

I saw in another thread that the Pug 307 had some new parts approved ?

[Karbonyl]

Well, everything depends on the decision of the mother factory, which has to approve the changes and sign the homologation. Without it, it's possible to get only national homologation after approval from ASN.

[Sulland]

díky !

[macksrallye]

Didn't seem to work too well last year so why would it work this year any better?

True, but is this because Abarth spent so much time, effort & money trying to run the team over the previous years that they only had the funds and people to develop one car, the 500 R3T, as that is going to give them better returns in the long run?