Ten Little Indians

[Somebody]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/ ... whodunnit/ (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/a-formula-1-whodunnit/)

[christophulus]

The Ferrari team has made an idiosyncractic comment on the announcement from Toyota, suggesting that the ongoing departures from the sport are similar to the Agatha Christie whodunnit “Ten Little Indians” in which 10 people are found dead on an island – but no-one can work out who killed whom and why.


The implication is that someone is F1 is killing off teams and that the new operations are not the answer as they are weak and may not be on the grid at the start of next year or may not make it to the end of the 2010 season.


Link (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/a-formula-1-whodunnit/)

It's a strange, rather melodramatic way of putting things. Ferrari have been moaning all year about the new teams coming in - yes they don't have a rich history but they're all well backed and seem fairly professional. Smaller teams are less likely to pull out of F1 seems how there's no parent company worried about the number of cars they're selling - if a team exists to race it'll stay in the sport 'til the bitter end.

[Valve Bounce]

My first thought was Max. Then I remembered that he is departing, so the next guy that came to mind is Bernie. Now I have to figure out how Bernie is making more money by killing teams. :eek:

[Rollo]

My first thought was Max. Then I remembered that he is departing, so the next guy that came to mind is Bernie. Now I have to figure out how Bernie is making more money by killing teams. :eek:

That's easy.

If you get the same team to die and reappear several times, you can charge the $48m entrance fee over and over again. The way I figure it, Campos, USF1 and Manor's entrance fees are worth $144m to the farty little smeghead.

[VkmSpouge]

That's easy.

If you get the same team to die and reappear several times, you can charge the $48m entrance fee over and over again. The way I figure it, Campos, USF1 and Manor's entrance fees are worth $144m to the farty little smeghead.

Only if the teams fail to make it to the end of the year as the money is gradually paid back to the new teams over the course of the entire season. And that's surely $192m with Lotus?

[Saint Devote]

Ferrari are tiresome and irksome.

Given their resources they did not exactly do justice to the elevated position they see themselves in, this past year and, it was only Kimi's driving that won Spa and they were fighting Mclaren or a big auto manufacturer for the win? No. It was Force India.

I think it was two moderately sized teams that kicked butt in 2009.

I see the hand of Luca di Montezemolo in this. What does he want by calling the teams withdrawing liars and blaming f1 for the loss of these teams?

Does he want to restart the FIA/FOTA war?

Instead of encouraging and seeking how f1 can move forward Ferrari does this.

As Bernie said not too long ago - Ferrari should rather pay attention to producing a winning car instead of pointing fingers.

[NickFalzone]

Link (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/a-formula-1-whodunnit/)

It's a strange, rather melodramatic way of putting things. Ferrari have been moaning all year about the new teams coming in - yes they don't have a rich history but they're all well backed and seem fairly professional. Smaller teams are less likely to pull out of F1 seems how there's no parent company worried about the number of cars they're selling - if a team exists to race it'll stay in the sport 'til the bitter end.

That's a ridiculous statement to make. Private investments dry up all the time, and a lot more quickly than a corporate one. I definitely like the direction of having more privateer teams, I think that's more in the spirit of what F1 should be about, but to say that many of these teams, and I'll include USF1 in this, are rock solid investments that won't go under even DURING a season is ridiculous to assume. I don't know what the Concorde agreement requires, but my guess is that there's always an out, which is why Toyota is apparently not overly concerned.

[NickFalzone]

The bitter end being when the funding dries up. Always an issue with smaller, new teams who may or may not have the proper resources in place for a longer haul.

Exactly.

[Valve Bounce]

Only if the teams fail to make it to the end of the year as the money is gradually paid back to the new teams over the course of the entire season. And that's surely $192m with Lotus?

Yeah! but surely he'd need Max to be in there to make sure they don't get to teh end of the season. I'm sure Brenie has worked out a plan - I just havn't figured it out yet!! Wait till I do a few more Sudoku puzzles and I'll figure it out.

[veeten]

That's easy.

If you get the same team to die and reappear several times, you can charge the $48m entrance fee over and over again. The way I figure it, Campos, USF1 and Manor's entrance fees are worth $144m to the farty little smeghead.

Actually, the entry fee is 309,000 euros.

The $48 M bond is by FOM, and had been dropped in order to facilitate the entry of the new teams.
http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18041&Itemid=219

[gloomyDAY]

I object to the term Indians. Should be replaced with Redskins.

Thank you.



Oh, wait. This is a F1 thread. :eek:

[F1boat]

Link (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/a-formula-1-whodunnit/)

It's a strange, rather melodramatic way of putting things. Ferrari have been moaning all year about the new teams coming in - yes they don't have a rich history but they're all well backed and seem fairly professional. Smaller teams are less likely to pull out of F1 seems how there's no parent company worried about the number of cars they're selling - if a team exists to race it'll stay in the sport 'til the bitter end.

I agree. I prefer privateers to manufacturers

[christophulus]

The bitter end being when the funding dries up. Always an issue with smaller, new teams who may or may not have the proper resources in place for a longer haul.

As opposed to manufacturer entries that are running fine, up until the parent company decides F1 isn't affordable or some other nonsense reason for leaving.

Toyota physically have the funding to continue running the team, but are leaving to either save face after a poor run or to prove to their shareholders that they're "focused" on the car business.

An independent team will carry on racing even on a shoestring budget - they don't have any external distractions. The only reason for leaving is lack of money, and as most of the new teams have big backers I reckon they've got a good chance of being here for several years.

[Valve Bounce]

I agree. I prefer privateers to manufacturers

As for me, I would never want to see the day that Ferrari left F1. That will be the day that F1 will cease to be F1.

[F1boat]

As for me, I would never want to see the day that Ferrari left F1. That will be the day that F1 will cease to be F1.

Ferrari is special. They are not ordinary manu team. They are the spirit of F1 and they exist to race. We all know this. There was a thought that other manus race to sell, while Ferrari sells to race.
But I was speaking about Honda, Toyota and BMW, who, put together, have less wins then Jordan GP.

[Mark]

Teams leave too. It's just that when a team departs e.g. Jordan, Arrows it's because the money has dried up and they cannot continue. Not because of the whim of a management board that doesn't like the companies 'direction'.

[Malbec]

The bitter end being when the funding dries up. Always an issue with smaller, new teams who may or may not have the proper resources in place for a longer haul.

Also, smaller teams like Williams can't go to their manufacturer owner and ask for big guns support so they can be pushed around more easily. Just remember how Williams was bribed to leave FOTA with a whiff of cash. If I was Max or Todt I'd rather be negotiating with a small team like USF1 or Campos than BMW, Honda or Toyota.

No wonder Max made F1 inhospitable for makers by always introducing expensive unnecessary regs changes every other year. He knew the manufacturers wouldn't like the unpredictability of funding F1 and would pull out.

[Mark]

No wonder Max made F1 inhospitable for makers by always introducing expensive unnecessary regs changes every other year. He knew the manufacturers wouldn't like the unpredictability of funding F1 and would pull out.

Minor regulation changes every year and major ones every 5 years or so are a normal part of F1 and have been since time immemorial.

[Malbec]

Minor regulation changes every year and major ones every 5 years or so are a normal part of F1 and have been since time immemorial.

Sure but most are in areas like aero which don't cost that much to prepare for.

Going from V10 to V8 then adding KERS with both changes costing around $100 million a go per team wasn't necessary, particularly when much cheaper options were available like heavily rev-limiting the existing V10s.

All that of course was done in the name of cutting costs, as was the whole budget cap idea which would have cost the makers $100s of millions in redundancy pay and winding down costs.

Given such unpredictability in costs no decent company would want to stay involved, it simply isn't worth it. It would be much simpler to sponsor a leading football team. The unpredictability of the regs changes, and the manner in which they were pushed through worsened over the past few years.

[wedge]

I bet Max had a good chuckle at Luca.

FOTA are a bit of a joke.

Manufacturers can leave whenever they like.

Now you've got nobodies trying to negotiate with the FIA though will be interesting how Peter Windsor plays it now he's on the other side of the door instead of carrying a microphone sucking up to teams, FIA and drivers.

[BDunnell]

What a bizarre, bizarre statement by Ferrari! Whoever advised them to put out something so odd really isn't up to whatever job it is they're supposed to be doing. The Agatha Christie reference makes the whole thing, which does have a serious point behind it, laughable. And even then I think the notion of a conspiracy against the manufacturer teams is absurd, even given the major failings of the FIA and its leadership that we all know about. How would such a conspiracy work? Unless the FIA is behind the world economic downturn, or unless Ferrari itself has been put under whatever pressure it's referring to by the FIA, it doesn't make much sense.