Renault to quit F1?

[Alfa Fan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8343221.stm The BBC have just reported Renault are going to decide on Wednesday next week whether to quit F1. Where would that leave Robert Kubica? Or F1 generally.

[F1boat]

Unlike Toyota, it will be a shame if Renault leaves as well. They are great team, winner of two WDC and two WCC and even in this abyssmal season won a podium and a pole-position. I will miss them if they leave although this is too understandable - Flavio and Symonds are banned, Alonso is to Ferrari and they were the architects of Renault success.

[JSH]

It would be a pity but it won't be a surprise.

NO automaker can afford to be in F1 at the moment.

[Daniel]

Let's hope they leave and that they along with Toyota enter the WRC. Will be much better value for money.

[Sonic]

They will no doubt claim financial reasons for quitting. Or perhaps they'll surprise me and be honest and say "we sucked this season so we are going to take our ball home".

[Lemmy-Boy]

I really hope Renault leaves because F1 really needs a dose of reality. FIA, CVC & Bernie need to get out of their little shell and improve the show for their TV audience.

It also doesn't help that F1 continues to hold races in countries that have little following or no attendance at all (Turkey). Plus, most of the new tracks have become boring sideshows.

And F1 no longer has a race in the largest car BUYING market in the world (USA). Given the recent global economic crisis, recent F1 soap operas, and lack of coverage in major markets, it's no irony that BMW, Honda and Toyota are gone.

[Shifter]

ALMS/LMS is just waiting for it. Let's all go sports car racing at the best tracks in the world, not just the most expensive.

[BDunnell]

They will no doubt claim financial reasons for quitting. Or perhaps they'll surprise me and be honest and say "we sucked this season so we are going to take our ball home".

No, I think your first suggestion is most likely! No major corporate entity will ever issue a completely honest statement on such an issue. Resorting to bland spin is the only way they know how.

[Dave B]

I hate to say I predicted both Toyota and Renault quitting earlier this year, but... :s

However I take no satisfaction from that - assuming of course that Renault do quit. Why would they have that meeting though if there wasn't at least something to discuss? Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, I must say.

[Langdale Forest]

Let's hope they leave and that they along with Toyota enter the WRC. Will be much better value for money.


I agree with you but what car would they use for WRC?

[ioan]

They will no doubt claim financial reasons for quitting. Or perhaps they'll surprise me and be honest and say "we sucked this season so we are going to take our ball home".

Especially now that everyone is talking about the economic trend being positive after 2 years of free fall.

[F1boat]

Especially now that everyone is talking about the economic trend being positive after 2 years of free fall.

Well in reality Renault always made noises that if they are not competitive, they may quit.

[Langdale Forest]

I suppose the staged crash in Singapore last year dented their reputation.

[Daniel]

I agree with you but what car would they use for WRC?
I'm sure either the Clio or Megane would make a good base.

[Langdale Forest]

They would probably make it into an S2000.

[F1boat]

I'm sure either the Clio or Megane would make a good base.

Is the Laguna now out of production (I dunno the correct term in English, for which I am sorry).

[Langdale Forest]

The laguna would be a bit too big for the WRC.

[F1boat]

The laguna would be a bit too big for the WRC.

Ah, pity. My Dad owns one, a beauty. Also I loved the old Laguna in the BTCC, in the late nineties. Ah, the sweet memories...

[Langdale Forest]

Big cars have become WRC cars, Skoda used the big and heavy Octavia.

[christophulus]

Is the Laguna now out of production (I dunno the correct term in English, for which I am sorry).

That's the correct term, but no, they're still selling it in the UK. In fact there seems to be a new one out soon.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/large+family/full+road+test/2402/2http://www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/newlagunahatch/product.aspx

Renault should be well placed once we come out of this recession. Their focus is small(er), more efficient cars which sell well in Europe. Plus their revenues are up (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/renault-ponders-fia-concerned/) due to the scrappage scheme so pulling out for financial reasons would be a lame excuse. Their reputation has taken a hit but I reckon they'll be here next year, especially as Red Bull seems to be keeping the Renault engines.

[Saint Devote]

The question is why should any manufacturer be in f1? There has never been a successful manufacturer and so what if they are?

The destruction of the Renault team was caused because Briatore was thrown out of the sport. It became successful because it was Flavio's team and Renault got useful mileage, but now?

There is not a single reason why they should remain in f1. Formula 1 is a sport and the only reason people participate is because they want to. Just like any other.

And with the team now without its assets - Briatore and Alonso - its core value has been destroyed and it ought to be put out of its misery by the company because it is quite simply defunct.

[Daniel]

The destruction of the Renault team was caused because Briatore was thrown out of the sport. It became successful because it was Flavio's team and Renault got useful mileage, but now?

You're suggesting that they're successful because of Flab? Then what about the last few years? :mark: Flab maketh not the team.....

[Langdale Forest]

Renault have been a waste of time in the last two years.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't think this has anything to do with the success or otherwise of the Renault F1 team. It is interesting that: [iRenault's emergency board meeting was attended by F1 team bosses Bob Bell and Jean-Francois Caubet, although neither man was allowed to take part in the debate about the team's future.[/i]

I have read reports previously that Renault sales never reflected their successes in F1, and I think this was the deciding factor. The company and sales just didn't get the benefit of all those wins in the WDC and WCC. After all, the Parisiens were clever enough to realise that the car in the show room didn't look anything like the F1 car.

So, another famous and staunch member of the F1 fraternity bites the dust. Next, we'll hear that Toyota wants to leave F1 also.

What!! they already did?? :confused:

[Valve Bounce]

You're suggesting that they're successful because of Flab? Then what about the last few years? :mark: Flab maketh not the team.....

I find it difficult that Renault believed their success was a result of floating on sleazy Flav. Only the deranged would believe that!!

[Mark]

Renault have been on the verge of quitting ever since they took over Benetton, and remember it was only 1997 when they last quit F1. It was the reason that Alonso ended up at McLaren.

[Valve Bounce]

Sleazy Flav was responsible for part of their success but not solely responsible in its entirety. Everyone has their role to fill and success is only achieved when you have that edge in any given moment or period. I think Flav was an extremely good promoter more than a gifted team boss. He had the right skilled people around him, and that combined brought them the success. Now he has been caught up in this latest scandal his name is mud and all of a sudden he is labelled as useless which is easy to assume IMO... :)

I can think of words more descriptive and appropriate than "mud", like something that comes out of the southern end of a North bound camel.

[F1boat]

I find it difficult that Renault believed their success was a result of floating on sleazy Flav. Only the deranged would believe that!!

Huh? Flav, like him or not, have won 4 championships. He is a good manager and knows how to organize people. Last years mean nothing. Ross Brawn, Ron Dennis and Frank Williams also have had poor seasons, yet nobody questions their ability.

[Malbec]

Huh? Flav, like him or not, have won 4 championships. He is a good manager and knows how to organize people. Last years mean nothing. Ross Brawn, Ron Dennis and Frank Williams also have had poor seasons, yet nobody questions their ability.

Agreed. Flav went from selling sweaters in America to running an F1 team and against all odds succeeded by using good management skills. I'm not surprised that despite his many deficiencies he was asked back by Renault when they bought out Benetton.

As for Renault, they have been looking for an exit strategy for a while and I don't think Piquetgate helped them much. More importantly, the sponsors have been jumping ship and new ones aren't very apparent. Ghosn being the kind of guy he is, I don't think he's going to waste time on anything he things doesn't give enough bang per buck.

Now Renault might not need an image boost around the world but Nissan does... I wonder if thats the only thing that could save the team now, but not in F1, more in something like Le Mans.

[Valve Bounce]

Huh? Flav, like him or not, have won 4 championships. He is a good manager and knows how to organize people. Last years mean nothing. Ross Brawn, Ron Dennis and Frank Williams also have had poor seasons, yet nobody questions their ability.

I don't suppose that the first two were a result of the driver SchM and some smart cheating with TRACS, while the second two were a direct result of a great driver known as Fernando.

If so, that was just a lucky guess!!

[Valve Bounce]

As for Renault, they have been looking for an exit strategy for a while and I don't think Piquetgate helped them much. More importantly, the sponsors have been jumping ship and new ones aren't very apparent. Ghosn being the kind of guy he is, I don't think he's going to waste time on anything he things doesn't give enough bang per buck.



This I find very credible and possibly spot on.

[Saint Devote]

You're suggesting that they're successful because of Flab? Then what about the last few years? :mark: Flab maketh not the team.....

Briatore was the energy and motivator of the team. That was the reason Renault gave him carte blance. And when he was told to win or the team was done he achieved victory - Renault are not blameless in what happened but he was also a convenient scape goat.

If Flavio had directed Toyota, they would still be in the sport.

The last few years are complicated. By the standards we are used to and to his credit, Renault was viewed as unsuccessful.

But the introduction of the control tyres caught Renaul out badly because their whole design was different to that required and they barely caught up and ultimately lost the plot this year.

As you are aware, formula one is an exceptionally difficult sport. Toyota, Honda and BMW found that out.

So without Briatore there really is no reason for the team to exist because he WAS the team. How committed will Renault be to f1? Just the fact that they are discussing that now shows their weakness in their reason for being.

[Saint Devote]

I don't suppose that the first two were a result of the driver SchM and some smart cheating with TRACS, while the second two were a direct result of a great driver known as Fernando.

If so, that was just a lucky guess!!

Anecdotally a racing driver makes his own luck on track. It is not at all coincidental that Renault won - it was Briatore that MADE the decisions about who to hire. It was he that guided the team and the energies of the drivers you mention to not one but consecitive titles.

The FIA were never friendly to Renault and the banning of the front wing was blatant, but Briatore's Renault coped.

Without Flavio there would have been nothing.

[AndyL]

The team had success before they had anything to do with Renault and I hope they will have success afterwards too. I can't believe Renault would want to risk the adverse publicity of disbanding what appears to be a perfectly viable team. A Honda-style amicable hand-over to the managment or another buyer is surely more likely. (Toyota's situation was a bit different because they built their team from the ground up, rather than putting their name on an established team.)

[Bezza]

I don't know why anybody is actually worried.

F1 is a lot bigger and better than all the car manufacturers and has coped admirably in the past without the likes of Renault and Toyota - and so therefore it can do again. The real bread and butter is the privateer teams who exist only to race - the likes of Williams and McLaren, along with Ferrari who were a F1 team before they made road cars.

Think back to the mid 80's. Renault pulled out. Alfa-Romeo pulled out. Did F1 suffer? No.

An era of F1 changes quickly and we are entering a new one now. In my opinion, it is for the best that prices are lower and privateer teams can come to the fore again - unlike the manufacturers who only race when they are winning and can chuck ridiculous sums of money into the pot with no success.

The problem for Toyota is that nobody really cares about them. Therefore, I won't miss them, and I won't miss Renault either.

[Bagwan]

Renault are staying in F1 .
Kubica is number one .
They will target 3rd in the championship .

This thread's title has been answered .
No , they will not quit .

[Mark]

Renault are staying in F1 .
Kubica is number one .
They will target 3rd in the championship .

This thread's title has been answered .
No , they will not quit .

Well, you can't know that for certain!

I think Renault will be best served in selling off their team, Toleman/Benetton whatever you want to call it, to someone else. But continue in the sport as an engine supplier. As their engines, while not the best on the grid, are fairly decent.

[F1boat]

An era of F1 changes quickly and we are entering a new one now. In my opinion, it is for the best that prices are lower and privateer teams can come to the fore again

Yes! Brawn GP may remain competitive and Williams may recover!

[veeten]

We'll have to wait until the end of the year for a decision, according to Ghosn...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80031

Personally, I smell a sale in the works... :\

[I am evil Homer]

Yep...reeks of wanting to get out but not break the Concorde agreement.

[F1boat]

We'll have to wait until the end of the year for a decision, according to Ghosn...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80031

Personally, I smell a sale in the works... :\

Well, we will see. They may sell the factory team and remain as engine suppliers.

[UltimateDanGTR]

i will sit on the fence on whether renault will quit or not, i have no idea on that.

but i do believe renault MUST stay in F1. they are a great part of the sport, despite the farce of singapore 08. Honda and Toyota-they quit because they had never been champions and they weren;t doing good enough. BMW were rising to the forefront before a tough year this year was used as an excuse to quit. quite frankly that one was stupid but the other 2 were understandable.

Renault are great in Formula 1, with the best engines in the mid 90s, and then double world champions in 05 and 06. DOUBLE WORLD CHAMPIONS. renault have the know how and pedigree to win, they've proved that, and IMO, quitting F1 would be pointless.

[N. Jones]

IF Renault is out four engines is not enough for 12 teams.

[I am evil Homer]

Yes it is..simple maths that's 3 per supplier and next season they're allowed to supply 4 each. I doubt Renault will pull out entirely but as a fully fledged team I think it could be over for them - no sign of sponsors aside from Total. Maybe engine supply is the best way forward using the Mercedes model to part own a team?

[veeten]

Renault as an engine supplier is not a bad way to go, just look at Mercedes.

Partners with one team, supplying two others, and at times all three teams were representied at the front of the grid. Not bad.

If Ghosn decides on this, then I have no problems. :)

Well, we will see. They may sell the factory team and remain as engine suppliers.

I read Ghosn's statement as meaning -

"If we don't get any sponsors who will pay for the team in the next few weeks, au revoir, because we are not willing to pay all ourselves"

[K-Pu]

I hope they don´t quit, but Mr. Goshn is quite fond on sacking people. In fact, he resurrected Nissan by booting A LOT of people, and now he´s trying to do the same with Renault. So if the F1 team is not successful or profitable, bye bye F1 and he´ll never think about it again because there´s a bigger fish to fry (AKA money).

Anyway, Renault has had a more than miserable year, Alonso has left the team and they have no sponsors... Things do not look good for them, but on the other hand they have signed Kubica, and they´re going to supply Red Bull with engines, and that should make them stay where they are.

Anyway, being a manufacturer team has its "particular features", notably that one of a corporation directing the team for some thousands kilometres away from the track (and from the real world) and a nice profit agenda to meet, and it could be time for the corporation to take command over Renault, who until now has been more a "normal team" than a enterprise.

[UltimateDanGTR]

question; do you think renault would fully design next years car and then sell the team to an outsider, with the 2010 cars and engines being supplied, sort of a la honda-brawn?

if renault do decide to quit, i hope they do that.

[ioan]

I hope they don´t quit, but Mr. Goshn is quite fond on sacking people. In fact, he resurrected Nissan by booting A LOT of people, and now he´s trying to do the same with Renault.

Good luck to him, the French will have his head on plate if he dares to say something about sacking a lot of people.
Anyway Renault as an automotive manufacturer isn't in such a bad shape compared to 90% of their counterparts.

[Valve Bounce]

I read Ghosn's statement as meaning -

"If we don't get any sponsors who will pay for the team in the next few weeks, au revoir, because we are not willing to pay all ourselves"

Enter Nelson Sr. Now, Jr will get to drive next year. :p :

[CNR]

i think it would be better for a team to stay in the sport until they sell the team if you go by what they did to honda and class brawn gp as a new entrant

will this move sauber f1 up to the 13th team and put what ever team that buys toyota team as 14th ( who would by the team after what they did with bmw knowing that there may not be a spot on the grid for them)

[AJP]

i think it would be better for a team to stay in the sport until they sell the team if you go by what they did to honda and class brawn gp as a new entrant

will this move sauber f1 up to the 13th team and put what ever team that buys toyota team as 14th ( who would by the team after what they did with bmw knowing that there may not be a spot on the grid for them)

Here's hoping someone would actually buy them....

[Malbec]

Good luck to him, the French will have his head on plate if he dares to say something about sacking a lot of people.
Anyway Renault as an automotive manufacturer isn't in such a bad shape compared to 90% of their counterparts.

Ghosn got to the head of Renault specifically by cutting costs, shutting down entire factories. He did the same at Nissan. The French punished him by making him CEO.

Renault might still need a serious bailout from the French government, their sales are ok at the mo because of all the trade in subsidies in the EU, when those stop their sales may fall again. It would not look good to be seen wasting money on F1 whilst receiving government handouts. Add to that Piquetgate and Renault is under intense pressure to drop F1, especially as all the redundancies can be made where its easier to sack people, the UK.

[Malbec]

will this move sauber f1 up to the 13th team and put what ever team that buys toyota team as 14th ( who would by the team after what they did with bmw knowing that there may not be a spot on the grid for them)

I presume if Toyota finds a buyer then as they have already signed up to the Concorde agreement they'd still stay 13th and BMW would still find itself shut out.

[MJW]

My guess is that Renault will broker a deal (get out clause from the Concorde agreement) by staying as a high profile engine builder, supplying a few teams, maybe Meccachrome badges on second tier teams, and that Prodrive pick up the race team using Renault engines.

[ioan]

Ghosn got to the head of Renault specifically by cutting costs, shutting down entire factories. He did the same at Nissan. The French punished him by making him CEO.

I bet none of the Nissan workers were French and they were probably not working in France either.

So they will probably need to sack people somewhere else than in France.

[Malbec]

I bet none of the Nissan workers were French and they were probably not working in France either.

So they will probably need to sack people somewhere else than in France.

Renault is French ioan. He sacked Renault staff. Many of them were French, living in France and all.

Ghosn is a Renault man, why do you think he's called Le Costcutter and not Costcutter-san?

[K-Pu]

Good luck to him, the French will have his head on plate if he dares to say something about sacking a lot of people.
Anyway Renault as an automotive manufacturer isn't in such a bad shape compared to 90% of their counterparts.

In fact, Goshn is closing (or trying to close) 3 factories in France, and that is a lot of jobs. What it is even more puzzling, he´s doing it in France while he tries to open factories in other countries, and what I find most strange is that he closes factories in France, but maintains the one we have here in Valladolid when he has repeated again and again that Renault is not interested on having it here.

What is going on then? Easy. Here in Spain politicians have the strange hobby of cracking under the pressure of big enterprises, and if they start saying they want to leave, in no time there will appear some politician giving them an absurd amount of money to "convince" them. And that´s how Renault is staying here, because the local government bribes, sorry, carries hard negotiations with Renault. In France they don´t seem to be doing the same, and Renault should have some consideration with their facilities in their home country...

But in the end... what´s more important? Mr. Goshn has no doubt: Profit, profit and profit. If he has to sack some thousand people in France just to move some factories to a cheaper place or maintain them just because that means free cash he´ll promptly do it and there will be not few people who thint that is the correct decission.

Conclussion: Mr Goshn will do whatever he thinks more convenient, no matter what people could think, because these freshly-unemployed rabble are quite troublesome (he must think, or something like that).

[K-Pu]

Renault is French ioan. He sacked Renault staff. Many of them were French, living in France and all.

Ghosn is a Renault man, why do you think he's called Le Costcutter and not Costcutter-san?

Here in Spain we call him Recortator (Cut-ator or something like that, kind of play on words), and he cares nothing about anything except profit.

[Daniel]

In fact, Goshn is closing (or trying to close) 3 factories in France, and that is a lot of jobs. What it is even more puzzling, he´s doing it in France while he tries to open factories in other countries, and what I find most strange is that he closes factories in France, but maintains the one we have here in Valladolid when he has repeated again and again that Renault is not interested on having it here.

What is going on then? Easy. Here in Spain politicians have the strange hobby of cracking under the pressure of big enterprises, and if they start saying they want to leave, in no time there will appear some politician giving them an absurd amount of money to "convince" them. And that´s how Renault is staying here, because the local government bribes, sorry, carries hard negotiations with Renault. In France they don´t seem to be doing the same, and Renault should have some consideration with their facilities in their home country...

But in the end... what´s more important? Mr. Goshn has no doubt: Profit, profit and profit. If he has to sack some thousand people in France just to move some factories to a cheaper place or maintain them just because that means free cash he´ll promptly do it and there will be not few people who thint that is the correct decission.

Conclussion: Mr Goshn will do whatever he thinks more convenient, no matter what people could think, because these freshly-unemployed rabble are quite troublesome (he must think, or something like that).
Eastern Europe is the future of car production for the non BMW's, Mercedes and Audi's.

The Fiat's coming out of the Tychy plant in Poland are well built and cheap labour means more profits.

[Saint Devote]

i will sit on the fence on whether renault will quit or not, i have no idea on that.

but i do believe renault MUST stay in F1. they are a great part of the sport, despite the farce of singapore 08. Honda and Toyota-they quit because they had never been champions and they weren;t doing good enough. BMW were rising to the forefront before a tough year this year was used as an excuse to quit. quite frankly that one was stupid but the other 2 were understandable.

Renault are great in Formula 1, with the best engines in the mid 90s, and then double world champions in 05 and 06. DOUBLE WORLD CHAMPIONS. renault have the know how and pedigree to win, they've proved that, and IMO, quitting F1 would be pointless.

Briatore has the know-how, not Renault.

That they are postponing an announcement is a negative development in coporate terms because it usually contains frantic legal activity seeking an out from contractual agreemenents.

Robert Kubica should be on the hotline to Mclaren. Renault's days as a winning team even if they stay are done.

Teams come and go from f1 over time and they always will and others will replace them. Its natural and termed creative destruction.

[Valve Bounce]

Eastern Europe is the future of car production for the non BMW's, Mercedes and Audi's.

The Fiat's coming out of the Tychy plant in Poland are well built and cheap labour means more profits.

We've got lotsa stuff coming out of China too. Don't know if there are any Renaults or what their quality is like.

[ioan]

Renault is French ioan.

Really?! I thought they were Australian! :rolleyes:
Go figure I only lived 10 years in France. :\



He sacked Renault staff. Many of them were French, living in France and all.

Ghosn is a Renault man, why do you think he's called Le Costcutter and not Costcutter-san?

I doubt they will let him increase the number of French chomeurs without a huge social movement and opposition of the politicians.

I'm really looking forward to see that happen given the fragil social climate in France because of the crisis.

[ioan]

Eastern Europe is the future of car production for the non BMW's, Mercedes and Audi's.

Don't be so sure, has had a factory in Hungary for 10 years now.
Mercedes is also building one in Hungary.

How long will BMW and Porsche resist before going that route?

And especially how long before Eastern Europe will be considered to pricey and they'll move to western Asia?

[Rollo]

And especially how long before Eastern Europe will be considered to pricey and they'll move to western Asia?

Not very likely, but mainly because Ukraine has three borders (Ural, Afghanistan & the Middle East) and Blue has 16 armies in the Middle East and Afghanistan.
Grey could probably move some of it's pieces into Ural and that would stop Blue's continent bonus, but then again Blue is forced to turn in three cards because it has seven.

Blue is better off invading Southern Europe and then Egypt.

[N. Jones]

Not very likely, but mainly because Ukraine has three borders (Ural, Afghanistan & the Middle East) and Blue has 16 armies in the Middle East and Afghanistan.
Grey could probably move some of it's pieces into Ural and that would stop Blue's continent bonus, but then again Blue is forced to turn in three cards because it has seven.

Blue is better off invading Southern Europe and then Egypt.

:rotflmao: What IN the hell you talking about? :rotflmao:

[Saint Devote]

:rotflmao: What IN the hell you talking about? :rotflmao:

:rotflmao: You are right - Your post after reading the post you are answering makes it hilarious!!

Thanks!!!

[Malbec]

Really?! I thought they were Australian! :rolleyes:
Go figure I only lived 10 years in France. :\



I doubt they will let him increase the number of French chomeurs without a huge social movement and opposition of the politicians.

I'm really looking forward to see that happen given the fragil social climate in France because of the crisis.

Ioan, please learn a little about Ghosn and look more carefully into France's industrial relations. Your posts indicate you know little yet you talk as if you know all about it.

I also find it interesting that you think that its easier or causes less trouble to sack people in Japan, the land of lifetime employment, than it is in France. I also find it interesting that you seem unaware that Ghosn has sacked lots of French people, is doing so right now and will continue to do so in the future.

Finally, do you think the French government cares more about Renault's wellbeing than it does about the employment prospects of a few thousand Frenchmen, particularly when it owns a stake in Renault itself and is seeking to reform employment regulations in France particularly with respect to making it easier for French companies to hire and sack staff? Sarkozy loves people like Ghosn, he'll let him do what he likes.

[gloomyDAY]

Not very likely, but mainly because Ukraine has three borders (Ural, Afghanistan & the Middle East) and Blue has 16 armies in the Middle East and Afghanistan.
Grey could probably move some of it's pieces into Ural and that would stop Blue's continent bonus, but then again Blue is forced to turn in three cards because it has seven.

Blue is better off invading Southern Europe and then Egypt.http://lauamangur.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/risk-bookshelf-board-game-2.jpg

[Bezza]

Not very likely, but mainly because Ukraine has three borders (Ural, Afghanistan & the Middle East) and Blue has 16 armies in the Middle East and Afghanistan.
Grey could probably move some of it's pieces into Ural and that would stop Blue's continent bonus, but then again Blue is forced to turn in three cards because it has seven.

Blue is better off invading Southern Europe and then Egypt.

Absolutely brilliant board game. Love it.

8 games, 6 victories :)

[Valve Bounce]

Absolutely brilliant board game. Love it.

8 games, 6 victories :)

I used to play this with my two daughters many, many years ago. Don't know where the game is now. :(

[ArrowsFA1]

Renault is working out a plan to leave Formula 1 before the start of next season, according to L’Equipe newspaper in France.
A team has been charged by Renault president Carlos Ghosn with making a study into the possibility of striking a deal with Prodrive’s David Richards to take the team on.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

[Sonic]

My, how Dave Richards would laugh if despite Max's best efforts Prodrive arrive on the grid next year.

[Giuseppe F1]

Renault linked to Prodrive sale
03/12/09 13:18

Renault is reportedly devising an exit plan from Formula One which could involve selling its Enstone facility to Prodrive. The French carmaker intends to remain an engine supplier to the new team.....

.....The report, written by Anne Giuntini, wife of former Renault engine boss Denis Chevrier, added that Richards' latest F1 plans involve the backing of a minor car manufacturer that is new to F1.....

.....Reportedly, Richards would relocate his entire Prodrive operation from Banbury to Enstone as part of the deal........


FULL STORY HERE:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/091203131835.shtml

[V12]

I'd welcome this if it happened, although something doesn't sit right about having Renault engines supplied to a team bearing an "Aston Martin" name. If this is the case it's probably best to just be Prodrive-Renault for the time being, then if in the future it becomes feasible to use an Aston Martin engine (whether an all new design, rebadged Cosworth or whatever), then by all means go with that.

Unless Renault want to sell their F1 engine operation too?

[Giuseppe F1]

This is what we need........ more reputable teams and brands such as Prodrive, Aston Martin and say Lola, instead of operations such as Stefan GP, Qadbak or the mysterious Russian guy who is supposed to be interested in Renault.

I really hope this happens

Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Aston Martin and Mercedes all on the same grid!

[Giuseppe F1]

I'd welcome this if it happened, although something doesn't sit right about having Renault engines supplied to a team bearing an "Aston Martin" name. If this is the case it's probably best to just be Prodrive-Renault for the time being, then if in the future it becomes feasible to use an Aston Martin engine (whether an all new design, rebadged Cosworth or whatever), then by all means go with that.

Indeed V12 - Id imagine this would be the route they would go down for the reasons you mention

[Giuseppe F1]

Joe Saward of grandprix.com is writing on his blog that apparently the deal is done and that an announcement will be made by Renault and Prodrive later today!

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/richards-to-buy-renault/

[I am evil Homer]

Makes business sense too as Prodrive wanted/needed to extend it's facilities but that was difficult at the current Banbury site. With Enstone they could pretty much keep all existing staff too, or split Prodrive over two sites...one for F1, one for rally/LMS.

[veeten]

Well, you can't know that for certain!

I think Renault will be best served in selling off their team, Toleman/Benetton whatever you want to call it, to someone else. But continue in the sport as an engine supplier. As their engines, while not the best on the grid, are fairly decent.


We'll have to wait until the end of the year for a decision, according to Ghosn...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80031

Personally, I smell a sale in the works... :\


Well, we will see. They may sell the factory team and remain as engine suppliers.

Definately called this shot in the dark, didn't we?... :D

[ArrowsFA1]

Renault linked to Prodrive sale
Being discussed in the "Renault to quit F1 (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135751)?" thread.

[VkmSpouge]

If Renault do decide to sell the team I hope Prodrive are the ones to take over the operation.

[F1boat]

If Renault do decide to sell the team I hope Prodrive are the ones to take over the operation.

But how cool it would be if Benetton buys it again... :)

[veeten]

Uh oh, Bidding war... :s hock:

Looks like Richards has a rival for Renault's goods, and a slightly better deal.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80434

May the best man win.

[F1boat]

Very interesting. The important thing for the team is to stay.

[I am evil Homer]

Looks like the FIA really doesn't want Dave Richards in F1....other bid "favoured by Bernie"...so he has zero chance. So instead of a guy who lives a breathes racing you get a Luxembourg (ie tax haven!) based equity house.

[christophulus]

So instead of selling to a team with motorsport pedigree, they're considering selling up to an investment fund. Absurd. I hope Prodrive gets the deal but I'm sure they aren't willing to pay over the odds.

[ArrowsFA1]

Investment funds...hmmm :dozey: It's the way sport (if you can call it that) in general is going.

[maximilian]

Very interesting. The important thing for the team is to stay.
The important thing is for Prodrive to get the nod here, an established organization that has a definite place in F1, with an eye on Aston Martin entering the sport. I'd hate to see some dubious group to get involved instead, pushing for Tung to test as a possible driver already tells volumes about the quality of "racing" organization it is...

[Sonic]

The important thing is for Prodrive to get the nod here, an established organization that has a definite place in F1, with an eye on Aston Martin entering the sport. I'd hate to see some dubious group to get involved instead, pushing for Tung to test as a possible driver already tells volumes about the quality of "racing" organization it is...

Well said. To echo something that Bernie himself said a few million times "its quality not quantity" and Prodrive is very cleary the quality outfit here.

[gloomyDAY]

Carlos Ghosn wants Genii Capital to run the show because 1) they have the money to take a 75% to 100% stake, 2) can take over the Renault young driver program with their driver management company, and 3) Bernie has given the nod to the money hungry leeches.

The Renault F1 team management on the other hand wants Richards. Why? Because they know that the F1 team under Richards won't be in the crapper for long.

I see this playing out two ways. The leeches buy Renault's F1 team and they are a midfield team forever or Richards takes over and we start seeing Renault headed towards the top once again.

[ykiki]

Carlos Ghosn wants Genii Capital to run the show because 1) they have the money to take a 75% to 100% stake, 2) can take over the Renault young driver program with their driver management company, and 3) Bernie has given the nod to the money hungry leeches.

The Renault F1 team management on the other hand wants Richards. Why? Because they know that the F1 team under Richards won't be in the crapper for long.

I see this playing out two ways. The leeches buy Renault's F1 team and they are a midfield team forever or Richards takes over and we start seeing Renault headed towards the top once again.

...or the leeches buy the team and hire Richards/ProDrive to run it?

[gloomyDAY]

...or the leeches buy the team and hire Richards/ProDrive to run it?Yes, but I thought both sides were bidding for Renault.

I really can't see Genii Capital buying the F1 team and then outsourcing the management to Prodrive. They can just do what they need in-house, especially with Bob Bell at the helm. Also, I think Renault recently had a reshuffle of their key technical personnel, so they should be more competitive next year. The question is, how competitive? A finance company could care less as long as they are raking in bucket loads of cash from sponsors.

Just don't think Renault F1 will be a top team without David Richards.

Just don't think Renault F1 will be a top team without David Richards.

They weren't a top team the last time he was there.

[VkmSpouge]

If Renault want the team to have a good chance of success they should sell to Prodrive. Considering Renault want to continue as an engine supplier surely they want both the teams they supply to be as competitive as possible as it will make them look better.

[Sonic]

They weren't a top team the last time he was there.

And how much time was he given last time??

[christophulus]

The company had considered its future in F1, but sources say its team will continue under new owners with Renault keeping a minority shareholding.

The team are set to be notified at their headquarters on Friday, with an official announcement likely next week.

The team name is unclear but it seems the car will race as a Renault.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8407138.stm

It's either the Lopez consortium or Prodrive, with rumours suggesting it's the former. Hopefully we'll know soon.

[Giuseppe F1]

F1-live now reporting that the deal is done and official announcement will be made next week.

I would truly love it to be Prodrive as I love to see real racing organisations in F1 and would always choose a Prodrive, Lola or Penske over a faceless and passionless Qadbak or Midland yet all the signals seem to be that Gerard Lopez's Genii Capital may have gotten the deal as latest reports from their camp have been that the Renault name would remain under their ownership if it happens so I reckon its gone there way - great for the team being 'saved' yet if Prodrive have lost out again, this will be like the 3rd or 4th time time they have been turned down for an F1 ride - what have they gotta do to join the Pirahna Club??!!


Plus, I really wanna see an F1 Prodrive Aston Martin in a couple of years in Gulf livery!! Purely selfish reasons there! :)

http://en.espnf1.com/renault/motorsport/story/4867.html

[Giuseppe F1]

F1-live now reporting that the deal is done and official announcement will be made next week.

I would truly love it to be Prodrive as I love to see real racing organisations in F1 and would always choose a Prodrive, Lola or Penske over a faceless and passionless Qadbak or Midland yet all the signals seem to be that Gerard Lopez's Genii Capital may have gotten the deal as latest reports from their camp have been that the Renault name would remain under their ownership if it happens so I reckon its gone there way - great for the team being 'saved' yet if Prodrive have lost out again, this will be like the 3rd or 4th time time they have been turned down for an F1 ride - what have they gotta do to join the Pirahna Club??!!


Plus, I really wanna see an F1 Prodrive Aston Martin in a couple of years in Gulf livery!! Purely selfish reasons there! :)

http://en.espnf1.com/renault/motorsport/story/4867.html

Plus, Lopez has been a guest speaker at the recent F1 business forum and going by James Allen's F1 blog, did a very good job, came across very well and certainly has the business credentials and exciting new ideas for F1 to embrace new media etc. Would be great if F1 could accomondate both Lopez and Prodrive and I guess its reassureing for the health of the sport that F1 is still being seen as great value and a viable business platform.

The thing in all of this for me is Toro Rosso - if Mateschitz does wanna sell, then its seems there are buyers out there. I think reason this hasnt happened is beacuse new prospective teams probably just wish to purchase their entry and not their facilities and Italian base and Mateschitz is probably insisting on this in any sale as to not make a whole workforce redundant

[AndyL]

Plus, Lopez has been a guest speaker at the recent F1 business forum and going by James Allen's F1 blog, did a very good job, came across very well and certainly has the business credentials and exciting new ideas for F1 to embrace new media etc. Would be great if F1 could accomondate both Lopez and Prodrive and I guess its reassureing for the health of the sport that F1 is still being seen as great value and a viable business platform.

James was pretty enthusiastic about Lopez wasn't he... but then again he was never going to badmouth one of the main speakers at a forum that he himself was hosting.

I thought James' most telling comment about Lopez was this one: "has created a successful career out of investing in and then selling on tech companies." That doesn't fill me with confidence that Lopez is in it for the good of the team or the sport.

[ioan]

I thought James' most telling comment about Lopez was this one: "has created a successful career out of investing in and then selling on tech companies." That doesn't fill me with confidence that Lopez is in it for the good of the team or the sport.

The budget cap move just transformed F1 even more in a business, not a marketing business as it was but into a direct money making one! :\

[Sonic]

I thought James' most telling comment about Lopez was this one: "has created a successful career out of investing in and then selling on tech companies." That doesn't fill me with confidence that Lopez is in it for the good of the team or the sport.

Agreed. :(

[VkmSpouge]

Well the important thing is that team should be able to continue for 2010. Of course I would prefer it if Prodrive was the team taking over the Renault F1 operation but I can't have everything.