The Real Reason Ferrari Signed Alonso!

forget the Santander money nonsense.

"With a winning car, he was and he is perfect. With a car to fix and a team to direct, I believe Alonso is superior. This I explained to Raikkonen: he wasn't happy but he understood"

So says Domenicali.

http://club.quotidianonet.ilsole24ore.com/turrini/io_stefano_domenicali_rispondo_che

[Koz]

Wow... I think I might just believe that...

[DexDexter]

forget the Santander money nonsense.

"With a winning car, he was and he is perfect. With a car to fix and a team to direct, I believe Alonso is superior. This I explained to Raikkonen: he wasn't happy but he understood"

So says Domenicali.

http://club.quotidianonet.ilsole24ore.com/turrini/io_stefano_domenicali_rispondo_che

It's a bit easier to kick somebody out when you've got a partner that is willing to foot the enormous bill that results from that.

[Donney]

If it's true I bet Raikonen is not a happy camper...

[TMorel]

I'm glad the season is over and there aren't any more races left otherwise it'd show a real lack of class to start talking down while a guy is still your driver

[keysersoze]

I've said words to that effect many times. Alonso is the only driver on the current grid who can elevate a team, like Lauda, Prost, and Schumacher. Kimi is another Mika Hakkinen--blindingly quick if the car is there--but no more.

Hamilton is getting there, and the next couple of years will reveal a lot about Vettel's potential for greatness.

[DexDexter]

I've said words to that effect many times. Alonso is the only driver on the current grid who can elevate a team, like Lauda, Prost, and Schumacher. Kimi is another Mika Hakkinen--blindingly quick if the car is there--but no more.

Hamilton is getting there, and the next couple of years will reveal a lot about Vettel's potential for greatness.

Which team has he elevated in recent years? Renault? A myth, pure and simple.

[markabilly]

forget the Santander money nonsense.

"With a winning car, he was and he is perfect. With a car to fix and a team to direct, I believe Alonso is superior. This I explained to Raikkonen: he wasn't happy but he understood"

So says Domenicali.

http://club.quotidianonet.ilsole24ore.com/turrini/io_stefano_domenicali_rispondo_che
:laugh:

It is the team manager's job to elevate the team....engineers and data acquisition plays the more important role....

they knew his skills and reputation when they hired him....sounds to me like old Domi is borrowing a page from hamilton's book on Ryan, and throwing kimi under the bus for Domi's inability to do the job of the team boss... :down:

[Boudica]

A lot people are leaving Ferrari these days, John Iley, Giles Simon, Gino Rosato, Luigi Mazzola and Luca Baldisserri has moved away from the race team...

It is quite obvious that Stefano is busy with a cleansing project, he wants his "own" group of people in key positions. Kimi was also part of the Todt-administration, it was Jean Todt who wanted Kimi in the team not Stefano. Stefano is just busy organizing his team.

[wedge]

Which team has he elevated in recent years? Renault? A myth, pure and simple.

McLaren

Apparantly he was responsible for getting sixth tenths out of the car at the beginning of 2007!

[woody2goody]

Which team has he elevated in recent years? Renault? A myth, pure and simple.

Not necessarily, he has scored quite a few points this year, and look where Piquet and Grosjean have been - a long way behind usually.

He does bring a heck of a lot to any team though.

[keysersoze]

Which team has he elevated in recent years? Renault? A myth, pure and simple.

Glad you asked.

2006 McLaren Drivers: Kimi Raikonnen / Juan Montoya (26 career wins between them).
Total wins in 2006: 0
Total points in 2006: 106 (including de la Rosa's)

2007 McLaren Drivers: Fernando Alonso / Lewis Hamilton (a rookie)
Total wins in 2007: 8
Total points in 2007: 218 (100% improvement)

2007 Renault Drivers: Giancarlo Fisichella / Heikke Kovalainen
Total wins in 2007: 0
Total points in 2007: 51

2008 Renault Drivers: Fernando Alonso / Nelson Piquet (2nd rookie teammate in a row)
Total wins in 2008: 2
Total points in 2008: 80, 61 by FA (40% improvement)

2002 Renault Drivers: Jenson Button / Jarno Trulli
Total wins in 2002: 0
Total points in 2002: 23

2003 Renault Drivers: Jarno Trulli / Fernando Alonso
Total wins in 2003: 0
Total points in 2003: 88 (350% improvement)'

2004 Renault: 105 points / 1 win
2005 Renault: 193 points (WCC) / 6 wins (5 for FA and a WDC)
2006 Renault: 206 points (WCC) / 8 wins (7 for FA and 2nd WDC)

[Boudica]

Not necessarily, he has scored quite a few points this year, and look where Piquet and Grosjean have been - a long way behind usually.

He does bring a heck of a lot to any team though.

Yes well, Piquet has been fired for underperforming, and unfortunatly Grosjean isn't doing ant better. The same argument can also be made for Kimi against Badoer and Fisi, or Rosberg against Nakajima.

[markabilly]

A lot people are leaving Ferrari these days, John Iley, Giles Simon, Gino Rosato, Luigi Mazzola and Luca Baldisserri has moved away from the race team...

It is quite obvious that Stefano is busy with a cleansing project, he wants his "own" group of people in key positions. Kimi was also part of the Todt-administration, it was Jean Todt who wanted Kimi in the team not Stefano. Stefano is just busy organizing his team.
You mean dismantling and disorganizing his team, and turning it into an italian soap opera?????

And just what were they thinking about Kimi?? That he might (unbeknownst to them), turn out not to be capable of motivating the janitors, be responsible for SD's poor pit stratgey, want an oversteering car rather than an understeering car, not have much car set up skills....and so on???

And the worst part of all, SD done discovered old Kimi is an introvert!!!!!

Well everyone knows that introverts make lousy race drivers especially those who just do not have great set up skills.......


many examples of those introverts like that being lousy drivers.......why, just look at......err....err.....jim clark.......jack brabham......mika (he only won 2 wdc, so that proves it all) and of course kimi only one wdc at ferrari out of his three years there....... :roll:

[DexDexter]

Glad you asked.

2006 McLaren Drivers: Kimi Raikonnen / Juan Montoya (26 career wins between them).
Total wins in 2006: 0
Total points in 2006: 106 (including de la Rosa's)

2007 McLaren Drivers: Fernando Alonso / Lewis Hamilton (a rookie)
Total wins in 2007: 8
Total points in 2007: 218 (100% improvement)

2007 Renault Drivers: Giancarlo Fisichella / Heikke Kovalainen
Total wins in 2007: 0
Total points in 2007: 51

2008 Renault Drivers: Fernando Alonso / Nelson Piquet (2nd rookie teammate in a row)
Total wins in 2008: 2
Total points in 2008: 80, 61 by FA (40% improvement)

2002 Renault Drivers: Jenson Button / Jarno Trulli
Total wins in 2002: 0
Total points in 2002: 23

2003 Renault Drivers: Jarno Trulli / Fernando Alonso
Total wins in 2003: 0
Total points in 2003: 88 (350% improvement)'

2004 Renault: 105 points / 1 win
2005 Renault: 193 points (WCC) / 6 wins (5 for FA and a WDC)
2006 Renault: 206 points (WCC) / 8 wins (7 for FA and 2nd WDC)

What about Renault in 2008, 2009? How's he elevated them? Talking about elevation, what about Kimi almost winning the WDC in a year-old Mclaren in 2003 after a couple of dry years for the team? Or elevating Ferrari from a championship losing team of 2006 to championship winning in 2007? It's so easy to twist the statistics to show what you want to show. What about Heikki Kovalainen ja Lewis Hamilton this year? They are probably the best development drivers of all time since the car is two seconds faster than it was at the beginning of the year and they haven't even tested the car. Alonso had great years with Renault but what's the evidence that HE was solely responsible for the improvement of the car?



Not necessarily, he has scored quite a few points this year, and look where Piquet and Grosjean have been - a long way behind usually.

He does bring a heck of a lot to any team though.

What does beating these Piquets and Badoers and Grosjeans prove? Nothing. Alonso is a great driver but it seems that lot of this "heck" is not facts.

[DexDexter]

McLaren

Apparantly he was responsible for getting sixth tenths out of the car at the beginning of 2007!

Poor old Heikki must be responsible for about only 1 seconds if Hamilton is responsible for the rest, which is about 1,5 seconds...I'm talking about the improvement of Mclaren this year . :D

[wedge]

Well everyone knows that introverts make lousy race drivers especially those who just do not have great set up skills.......

Frank Dernie would disagree with you.

Jim Clark, Schumi, Senna were introverts and didn't do too badly.

[Dzeidzei]

If it's true I bet Raikonen is not a happy camper...

I think he has every reason to be happy:

Full list of F1 2009 driver salaries:

1. Kimi Raikkonen $45m
2. Lewis Hamilton $18m
3. Fernando Alonso $15m
4. Nico Rosberg $8.5m
5. Felipe Massa $8m
6. Jarno Trulli $6.5m
7. Sebastian Vettel $6m
8. Mark Webber $5.5m
9. Jenson Button $5m
10. Robert Kubica $4.5m
11. Heikki Kovalainen $3.5m
12. Nick Heidfeld $2.8m
13. Timo Glock $2m
14. Giancarlo Fisichella $1.5m
15. Sébastien Buemi $1.5m
16. Rubens Barrichello $1m
17. Jaime Alguersuari $0.5m
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi $Nil
19. Adrian Sutil $Nil
20. Romain Grosjean $Nil
21. Kazuki Nakajima $Nil

[keysersoze]

[quote="DexDexter"]What about Renault in 2008, 2009? How's he elevated them? Talking about elevation, what about Kimi almost winning the WDC in a year-old Mclaren in 2003 after a couple of dry years for the team? Or elevating Ferrari from a championship losing team of 2006 to championship winning in 2007? It's so easy to twist the statistics to show what you want to show. What about Heikki Kovalainen ja Lewis Hamilton this year? They are probably the best development drivers of all time since the car is two seconds faster than it was at the beginning of the year and they haven't even tested the car. Alonso had great years with Renault but what's the evidence that HE was solely responsible for the improvement of the car?


Ferrari in 2006 scored 201 points, and narrowly lost to Renault. No one else was even close.

In 2007, Kimi's first at Ferrari, the team won the WDC with a little help from some in-house shennanigans at McLaren, but not the WCC--that went to McLaren who had two new drivers, one of which was, you guessed it--Fernando Alonso. One could argue that Kimi benefited from an infrastructure built over a long period of time by Michael Schumacher. Since then thinsg have gone pear-shaped for the team.

In 2008, they scored 172 points, and this year will score even less.

Alonso was less of a factor this season because of the new rules. I'd be willing to wager Renault would be vastly improved if he stayed for another season.

[CaptainRaiden]

Alonso was less of a factor this season because of the new rules. I'd be willing to wager Renault would be vastly improved if he stayed for another season.

So, would you be willing to bet your sig on Alonso winning the championship for Ferrari next season? I mean think about it, he has all winter to take his six tenths from Renault to Ferrari. ;)

[gloomyDAY]

Bullpoop! Stefano better demonstrate that he can manage a team next year.
I hope Ferrari doesn't turn into that early 90's team.


Frank Dernie would disagree with you.

Jim Clark, Schumi, Senna were introverts and didn't do too badly.Dude, I think Mark was being sarcastic.

[keysersoze]

So, would you be willing to bet your sig on Alonso winning the championship for Ferrari next season? I mean think about it, he has all winter to take his six tenths from Renault to Ferrari. ;)

Not a Ferrari fan in the least, but since they've admitted abandoning development on the current car in favor of next season's (hey, they've even put 2010 stuff on Giancarlo's car already), I'm quite confident that Ferrari will be more competitive. Let's say, 3+ wins and at least 50% more points than 2009.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Not a Ferrari fan in the least, but since they've admitted abandoning development on the current car in favor of next season's (hey, they've even put 2010 stuff on Giancarlo's car already), I'm quite confident that Ferrari will be more competitive. Let's say, 3+ wins and at least 50% more points than 2009.

Id say that Ferrari would be looking for at the very least double what they score this season-they will to stand any chance of the constructors championship in my view-but with two very strong drivers this is very possible. unfortunatly for fans of Macca and others!

[DexDexter]

Alonso was less of a factor this season because of the new rules. I'd be willing to wager Renault would be vastly improved if he stayed for another season.

So you're an Alonso fan, nothing wrong with that. It's just that being a fan of somebody often clouds one's judgement, it has happened to me as well. But as I've stated here before, If Alonso loses to Massa even occasionally, he's the most overrated driver ever, I'm referring to the amount of money it took to get him there.

[keysersoze]

So you're an Alonso fan, nothing wrong with that. It's just that being a fan of somebody often clouds one's judgement, it has happened to me as well. But as I've stated here before, If Alonso loses to Massa even occasionally, he's the most overrated driver ever, I'm referring to the amount of money it took to get him there.

I haven't indicated in this thread that I'm an Alonso fan. In fact, I've recently said in another thread that because he has found his way into various scandals, I'm done with cheering for him.

But he's a special talent I'm convinced.

[DexDexter]

I haven't indicated in this thread that I'm an Alonso fan. In fact, I've recently said in another thread that because he has found his way into various scandals, I'm done with cheering for him.

But he's a special talent I'm convinced.

I don't think anyone would deny that :up:

[jens]

In terms of team elevation, Fisichella and Sutil must be the best. :D

[keysersoze]

In terms of team elevation, Fisichella and Sutil must be the best. :D

That would be another case of statistics being like bikinis--they show a lot, but not everything. :D