Yas Marina looks amazing! Who do you think will win?

[Andy Harrison]

This circuit looks incredible!

http://grid1.tv/#browse/media_vault/inside_track?id=1_247

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikvjwBEYk50

Who do you think will be leading the pack now all the pressure for the driver's championship is off?

I think Vettel will finish of the season with a win!

[F1boat]

I hope for a battle between the two British champions - Jenson and Lewis.

[Koz]

Kimi :D

I hope it's kimi, but it will be between Fettel and Mark. Mark is in great form at the moment.
But this gives us a chance to see if Button is any good or if it was all Honda/Brawn. I would bet against him, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and for this race consider he was playing it safe for the c'ship. But this will be the proving ground and we'll see what he's worth and how he plays when he has nothing to lose.

Lewis will be quick. He'll qualify top 5 as will Kimi. Sutil and Trulli will be near there too.

I hope it's a free from all brawl, with everyone at maximum attack mode.

The track looks absolutely stunning.

[AndyL]

I don't think it will be Button. Given all the media attention around his winning of the WDC it's hard to imagine his mind will be fully on the job.

Who will be the first to crash in the tunnel?

[woody2goody]

I think I went for Button, followed by Lewis and Rubens.

The hot temperatures will suit the Brawn, and the stop-start-ish nature of the track will suit McLaren.

Red Bull will be there or thereabouts but I don't think they'll win.

The track looks awesome. It looks to have the overtaking opportunities of Bahrain combined with some street circuit characteristics.

Also, in-case anyone's forgotten, it will be the first ever day-to-night race. That could bring other cars into play as it gets cooler later on.

[Viv]

I think I went for Button, followed by Lewis and Rubens.

The hot temperatures will suit the Brawn, and the stop-start-ish nature of the track will suit McLaren.

Red Bull will be there or thereabouts but I don't think they'll win.

The track looks awesome. It looks to have the overtaking opportunities of Bahrain combined with some street circuit characteristics.

Also, in-case anyone's forgotten, it will be the first ever day-to-night race. That could bring other cars into play as it gets cooler later on.

I've read that the track is quite dirty, using the non-racing line to overtake would be difficult unfortunately.

Here's the link
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79773

[Rollo]

I think that if this race was held at night, and some of the stands and corners had fluorescent paint everywhere, then it could easily pass as something from the Speed Racer film.

I am a little aprehensive about the pit exit having a totally blind corner in it. Hamilton made rather a hash of the exit in Brazil; if that happened at Yap Marinas, and someone was following then potentially we could have a pile up in the pits.

Maybe some sort of light system informing the cars following that there's something in the tunnel?

[wedge]

I think I'm starting to like this track.

The grandstands and barriers are very close to the track. :up:

[ShiftingGears]

I'm struggling to find anything amazing about the circuit.

[Mark]

You mean there's another race? wow!

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm struggling to find anything amazing about the circuit.
I tend to agree. Certainly the location is stunning and the circuit facilities are second to none but, as with all these new circuits, that seems to be the priority.

As to who will win? Who knows :eek: I just hope we get to see Brawn, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren on form, rather than the circuit favouring one or other of them. That way we should have a great race. The championships are decided so it's all about winning this race. That could make things exciting.

[harsha]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135462

a related thread....

the circuit looks boring to me,don't see any places where there's gonna be overtaking...maybe the Mclaren and Ferrari with KERS can do a move in the straight apart from that nope

[wedge]

I tend to agree. Certainly the location is stunning and the circuit facilities are second to none but, as with all these new circuits, that seems to be the priority.

I hate the Tilke-dromes littered with grandstands. Build them and they will come...

[ArrowsFA1]

Build them and they will come...
...for the first year or so...

[nigelred5]

I hate the Tilke-dromes littered with grandstands. Build them and they will come... .... and leave just as quickly......

Just about any investor would come out ahead by spending 1/2 that amount redeveloping a good track that will perpetually have good crowds, like Silverstone IMHO.

[DexDexter]

.... and leave just as quickly......

Just about any investor would come out ahead by spending 1/2 that amount redeveloping a good track that will perpetually have good crowds, like Silverstone IMHO.

But if you got too much cash and nothing to do with it...The place is too good not to be in F1. I wish one of the princes or whatever they are would suddenly get the idea to invest in a circuit in the US, you'd get your race back in no time.

[TheFamousEccles]

Nice shiny race track, but no elevation changes! This leaves me wanting, I must say - you might think that with all the money spent on this track they could have trucked in a few elevation changes? I mean, look at the way the oil countries have made artificial islands and generally changed their landscape to suit them, surely they could have made a few little hills? Maybe copied Paddock Hill Bend, for example (love that corner).

I am keen to see the carnage in that pit exit tunnel - surely it is odds on to happen?

[ArrowsFA1]

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2009uae1/image/XPB_345034_HiRes-2

Does this look like an F1 paddock to you?

[F1boat]

I am optimistic for the race. It will be spectacular and the Abu Dhabi people have experience with F1 powerboat races - they held the finish of that championship for many years. Now the real F1 is much bigger challenge, but I am sure that the venue will be great, maybe on par with Singapore, which I like very much. But I like Valencia as well, unlike many people here...

[Mark]

Does this look like an F1 paddock to you?

Well it looks like holiday apartments :D

[Dzeidzei]

I wish theyd remove the chicane before the hairpin leading to long straight. That would add another place to overtake.

Well, maybe theres not enough runoff area in the hairpin...

[wedge]

Does this look like an F1 paddock to you?

FFS....

whose to blame for the luxury villas? Team bosses or Bernie?

Are they there to go racing or speculating the price of crude oil?

[truefan72]

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2009uae1/image/XPB_345034_HiRes-2

Does this look like an F1 paddock to you?

and what exactly should one look like?

it is perfectly suited for its environment and blends nicely.

Why are you so adamant about not liking the track. I think it is more jealousy than anything else. I'm no fan of tilke, but this track is probably his best work to date.

It's a big world out there, and no one needs to conform to a narrow view of what things should look like based on a westernized ideal. Good for them, they have an F1 track and a spot on the calendar. Time to deal with it.

I'm sure that you ill have plenty of negative things to say once S. Korea rolls around next year.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, but it just seems like you are trying hard not to like the track rather than simply embracing it as addition to the variety that makes F1 a golbal series.

[truefan72]

FFS....

whose to blame for the luxury villas? Team bosses or Bernie?

Are they there to go racing or speculating the price of crude oil?

...see post above

[F1boat]

and what exactly should one look like?

it is perfectly suited for its environment and blends nicely.

Why are you so adamant about not liking the track. I think it is more jealousy than anything else. I'm no fan of tilke, but this track is probably his best work to date.

It's a big world out there, and no one needs to conform to a narrow view of what things should look like based on a westernized ideal. Good for them, they have an F1 track and a spot on the calendar. Time to deal with it.

I'm sure that you ill have plenty of negative things to say once S. Korea rolls around next year.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, but it just seems like you are trying hard not to like the track rather than simply embracing it as addition to the variety that makes F1 a golbal series.

I think that reason is that some oldschool F1 fans do not like street courses as they tend to be decided in the pit and not with on track overtaking. But for me overtaking is no big deal, I like Monaco-like street venues and definetly prefer a strategy battle like Valencia then snorefest on a "classic track" a.k.a. Silverstone 09 /although I believe that Silverstone should stay in F1/.

[ArrowsFA1]

and what exactly should one look like?

it is perfectly suited for its environment and blends nicely.
Totally agree :up: My point in showing was that there is no other paddock like it in F1, and I didn't think it even looked like an F1 paddock. Thats all :s mokin:

Why are you so adamant about not liking the track.
The track? I haven't commented on the track directly as we haven't seen any on-track action yet. I have said the location is stunning and the circuit facilities are second to none.

Tilke has built very impressive circuits - Turkey being one - but the main aim of many new venues like we are seeing this weekend seems to be as a promotional tool. Now that may impress a lot of people, particularly the VIP's doing business in the air-conditioned paddock, in the first year, but after that there have been venues - was it Bahrain where spectator numbers were reportedly around the 5,000 mark - where interest fades away.

I do wonder what some of these new venues will look like, and be used for, in 20yrs time. In some ways F1 has become like the bidding process for the Olympics, and all that a winning bid entails.

[Dave B]

It looks stunning, certainly, but I'll judge Yas Marina on Sunday afternoon once I've seen an actual race. All the money in the world can't necessarily produce good racing (see Bahrain or China for example) whereas sometime a complete dump can conjure up not only some amazing action but also a phenomenal atmosphere (see Interlagos, Silverstone).

[ShiftingGears]

I am struggling to see the comparison with Monaco. Grand Prix racing went to Monaco because someone thought that the roads would offer a great driver challenge, with elevation changes and corners with a variety of radii and camber. The location what just an added bonus.

This grand prix is about the location, does not have elevation changes and does not have corners with a variety of radii and camber.

[Dave B]

It's not looking promising so far, near the end of first practice. The biggest problem for me is that the track is far too forgiving of errors, the massive runoffs don't punish drivers nearly enough.

Still, early days.

Hamilton and Button trading fastest laps at the moment, it would be nice if that carries on all weekend :D

[truefan72]

first impressions;

The track looks amazing, the drivers seemed to have adapted quiickly and the pit exit as I predicted isn't a problem.

I look forward to the day to night practice session to see the place light up. I hope the race will be exciting.

[ArrowsFA1]

It looks like Paul Ricard!

http://www.drive-a-formula-1.com/circuits-formule-1/circuit_f1/httt.jpg

http://www.circuitpaulricard.com

[Dave B]

It looks like Paul Ricard!


I believe Crofty said it was the same designer. :)

[UltimateDanGTR]

It looks like Paul Ricard!

http://www.drive-a-formula-1.com/circuits-formule-1/circuit_f1/httt.jpg

http://www.circuitpaulricard.com

I wonder how many people have got lost there in time? :D

[Dave B]

Yas Marina is starting to look better now the sun's going down. The glare which everybody was fearing only lasted a few minutes.

[Dave B]

There's a rather blown BMW engine just behind Robert Kubica's spine right now. At least he had the sense to cut the power and immediately pull off - we've seen far to many drivers trail oil back to the pits.

[ArrowsFA1]

I wonder how many people have got lost there in time? :D
It looked a bit like Sutil, and now Hamilton, got a little lost!!

[wedge]

Totally agree :up: My point in showing was that there is no other paddock like it in F1, and I didn't think it even looked like an F1 paddock. Thats all :s mokin:

China has luxury villas/office/paddock ontop of a lake.

I've never had an F1 paddock pass so what do I know?

Jealousy?

At a lesser race meeting I'd rather stand in the garage and inhale engine and tyre smoke than worrying about getting free prawn sandwich let alone a glass of champagne.

[wedge]

It looks like Paul Ricard!

Blue bits is hiigh grip surface to reduce the incidence of cars spinning off which would account for the slightly smaller run off.

[ArrowsFA1]

The last time I was in an F1 paddock all we had was some patio furniture to sit on alongside a winnebego :p We did get free Warsteiner though :beer:

[UltimateDanGTR]

It looked a bit like Sutil, and now Hamilton, got a little lost!!

their satnav must have been having a crisis! :D

[F1boat]

I loved the track, it was amazing to watch first F1 on sunset, than in twilight and in the end in the dark. Terrific, can't wait for the race!

[UltimateDanGTR]

something tells me Macca are gonna do well this weekend-the stop starty nature suits them to a tee.

Lewis for a win, Button for second with no pressure, Kimi or Vettel for third.

I said Macca will do well, I mean Lewis will do well, and Heikki most probably considerably average.

hopefully, a good race is in store.

[truefan72]

The last time I was in an F1 paddock all we had was some patio furniture to sit on alongside a winnebego :p We did get free Warsteiner though :beer:

free beer is a worthy trade off :up:

[F1boat]

Brawn were fantastic in FP3, but maybe McLaren will be lighter now and Lewis will win Pole.

[harsha]

Lewis creams the field

[UltimateDanGTR]

great driving by Lewis. surprise of the day were the red bulls for me, i thought they were gonna struggle to get higher than about 4th but 2nd and 3rd good for them (could be just low fuel-we will find that out eventually)

looking foward to hopefully a good race tommorrow

[truefan72]

great qualy, still waiting to hear what happened to kovy,

i think Raikkonen is sticking it to Ferrari TBH in front of that mega Ferrari World center thing. Alonso on the other hand has already checked out.

RBR's look good, albeit .500 seconds off Mclaren's pace. This is a great Kers track, no doubt, but remember that the car is still like 60pounds heavier.

not sure what to make of trulli's pace and the enigma of Toyota. As I've said all along, the weakest part of Toyota has always been their drivers. I've always believed that with better drivers they would have won some races and been close in the championships. If they spent some money on drivers instead of their huge redundant staff, who knows how 2009 might have turned out.

Brawns look solid, Rubens once again gets the better of his teammate.

Race should be good tomorrow, although I predict a first corner incident.

BTW, i think the pit exit is fantastic, no problems or complains all weekend from the drivers.

[VkmSpouge]

It really is going to take something special for anyone to beat Lewis Hamilton tomorrow. I think it will be an interesting fight between the Red Bulls and Brawns for second place, Barrichello will need Button between himself and Vettel to secure second place in the World Championship.

Great looking circuit. That huge, bulbous hotel building reminds of the Bullring in Birmingham.

[christophulus]

Looks like a great facility, track layout isn't up to much but I didn't expect it to be.

Hamilton will walk away with this tomorrow, reckon Button might just get onto the podium. Kovalainen should've been on the front row too but his gearbox failed and he gets a five-place penalty (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79911).. not a great way to start your last McLaren race :s

[christophulus]

Weights are in: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/10/31/abu-dhabi-grand-prix-fuel-weights/

Vettel has 2 laps more than Hamilton but I doubt that'll be enough.

1 Lewis Hamilton 658.5kg 18 laps
2 Sebastian Vettel 663 20
3 Mark Webber 660 19
4 Rubens Barrichello 655 17
5 Jenson Button 657 18
6 Jarno Trulli 661 19
7 Robert Kubica 654.5 17
8 Nick Heidfeld 664 20
9 Nico Rosberg 665 21
10 Sebastien Buemi 661.5 19
11 Kimi Raikkonn 692 31
12 Kamui Kobayashi 694.3 32
13 Heikki Kovalainen 697 33
14 Kazuki Nakajima 704 35
15 Jaime Alguersuari 696.5 32
16 Fernando Alonso 708.3 37
17 Vitantonio Liuzzi 695 32
18 Adrian Sutil 696 91
19 Romain Grosjean 710.8 38
20 Giancarlo Fisichella 692.5 31

[Dave B]

So long as Lewis gets a good start, KERS should see him stay in front of the Red Bulls.

[driveace]

Both Renaults fueled LONG !

[Dave B]

Both Renaults fueled LONG !
Yes but starting from 16th and 19th the only way they could get a good result is if there's a safety.... oh, wait. :dozey:

[F1boat]

Weights are in: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/10/31/abu-dhabi-grand-prix-fuel-weights/

Vettel has 2 laps more than Hamilton but I doubt that'll be enough.

1 Lewis Hamilton 658.5kg 18 laps
2 Sebastian Vettel 663 20
3 Mark Webber 660 19
4 Rubens Barrichello 655 17
5 Jenson Button 657 18
6 Jarno Trulli 661 19
7 Robert Kubica 654.5 17
8 Nick Heidfeld 664 20
9 Nico Rosberg 665 21
10 Sebastien Buemi 661.5 19
11 Kimi Raikkonn 692 31
12 Kamui Kobayashi 694.3 32
13 Heikki Kovalainen 697 33
14 Kazuki Nakajima 704 35
15 Jaime Alguersuari 696.5 32
16 Fernando Alonso 708.3 37
17 Vitantonio Liuzzi 695 32
18 Adrian Sutil 696 91
19 Romain Grosjean 710.8 38
20 Giancarlo Fisichella 692.5 31

Lewis should win this. Between RBR and Brawn GP, maybe the weather will be decisive. Brawnies will have to beat RBR while it is hot, because in the eve the Bulls will be likely stonger.

[AndyL]

Both Renaults fueled LONG !

Those are the heaviest starting weights I can remember seeing all year... collecting data for next year perhaps :)

[Valve Bounce]

My pickems posted days ago: Hamilton, Webber, Vettel and bunsen - and barring accidents to any of them, I predict that the podium will be fought out between these four drivers. Kimi is an unknown quantity because he is fueled up to run a totally different race strategy from the other three. The race will start at midnight our time, so I will be fast asleep then.

[nigelred5]

I can't get over the size of that yacht tied up outside of the main harbor that is a backdrop for the shots looking down one of the short straights. It looks like a darn building there, not a yacht.!

I haven't seen many cars running close at all in practice or quallys so far. So far I like the track much better than say Bahrain or China.

[Eyo]

Guys, just a fast report on being out on the track. It’s all amazing. When the first Bahrain F1 took place I already worked here so we went there to watch. It was half ready and not many people or spectators. Her the whole thing looks awesome. When you come over to Yas island it’s like a vacation from the city, Abu Dhabi. It’s not 100% done, but it’s much more advanced then Bahrain truck. We are sitting above the support pit, so we’ve got the hotel and the yachts in front of us. The short straight and until they go into the hotel tunnel.
One thing I don’t like is that the seats are numbered, so some friends bought the ticket later and they have different seat numbers. And it’s quiet hard to get around the organizers, they are so many and work like robots. They have been told something and that’s it.
Ok, then I’ll get on my old BAR Honda shirt and head out. If I got some good pictures I will post them.
Oh and the crowd. The place is full to my surprise!

[F1boat]

Guys, just a fast report on being out on the track. It’s all amazing. When the first Bahrain F1 took place I already worked here so we went there to watch. It was half ready and not many people or spectators. Her the whole thing looks awesome. When you come over to Yas island it’s like a vacation from the city, Abu Dhabi. It’s not 100% done, but it’s much more advanced then Bahrain truck. We are sitting above the support pit, so we’ve got the hotel and the yachts in front of us. The short straight and until they go into the hotel tunnel.
One thing I don’t like is that the seats are numbered, so some friends bought the ticket later and they have different seat numbers. And it’s quiet hard to get around the organizers, they are so many and work like robots. They have been told something and that’s it.
Ok, then I’ll get on my old BAR Honda shirt and head out. If I got some good pictures I will post them.
Oh and the crowd. The place is full to my surprise!

Yas Marina humiliates Sakhir. The Bahrain GP looks like a GP in the middle of nowhere. This looks like a GP from the future. I envy you for being there. Enjoy the race!

[Aikidoka]

Great looking circuit. That huge, bulbous hotel building reminds of the Bullring in Birmingham.

Hehe... My Dad and I were walking past the Bullring yesterday and speculated that if Silverstone fell through, Birmingham could step up to the plate for a street race due to the similarities between the two buildings :)

For those who don't know what we're on about:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/3080182403_9eaab4b078.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leopardsanderson/3080182403/)

This is the outside of the Selfridges store at the Bullring shopping mall in Birmingham. Depending on how you feel, it's either architectural genius or an eyesore.

Can't see anyone stopping Hamilton today.

[Dave B]

Just watching GP2 Asia to get an idea of what actual racing might look like. :)

[pino]

Lewis will easily win this one !

[Koz]

Crap. Just got a callout from work, I won't be seeing this race tonight :(

Lewis will win.

[pino]

Crap. Just got a callout from work, I won't be seeing this race tonight :(

Lewis will win.

Tonight ? the race will start at 1400 cet ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Tonight ? the race will start at 1400 cet ;)

Midnight my time :( :bigcry:

[Dave B]

This is the outside of the Selfridges store at the Bullring shopping mall in Birmingham. Depending on how you feel, it's either architectural genius or an eyesore.
Nice building (a long way from being genius) in totally the wrong location. It needs to be sympathetic to its surroundings, and that's where the Yas Marina hotel scores as it fits in well with the whole design ethos. The real eyesore in Abu Dhabi is the Ferrari World building, but the insides more than make up for that. 220kph roller coaster, anyone? :eek:

[AndyL]

Hehe... My Dad and I were walking past the Bullring yesterday and speculated that if Silverstone fell through, Birmingham could step up to the plate for a street race due to the similarities between the two buildings :)

Yes bring back the Super Prix!

[penagate]

Jonathon Legard's commentary, so far, has been awful.

[christophulus]

The race has been even worse. Please, please, please do something about the aerodynamics for next year!

[ArrowsFA1]

Great race to the finish between Webber & Button :up: :up:

[BeansBeansBeans]

Great race to the finish between Webber & Button :up: :up:

It was totally thrilling :up:

Great work by both men.

[wedge]

Anyone notice there's no drainage system in the tunnel?! Good job its in the middle of the desert!

What's the protocol when pit exit is flooded?

[Dave B]

Great race to the finish between Webber & Button :up: :up:
Yup, those five laps were amazing. Shame the other 90% of the race was dull as ditchwater.

Stunning setting, absolutely stunning. But give me Spa, Silverstone, Suzuka or Interlagos any day.

[UltimateDanGTR]

What's the protocol when pit exit is flooded?

lower the lifeboats?

Fantastic setting and well done Vettel today, good racing between Button and Webber at the end. shame for Lewis but he didnt look like winning anyway (unless he had a problem from the very start)

but now, is it really all over for another year?

[VkmSpouge]

Good race. Shame for Lewis Hamilton to have a car problem curtail his race. Sebastian Vettel did a great utterly flawless and deserves second the championship.
Great battle with Mark Webber and Jenson Button towards the end. I think one more lap and Button would have got passed the Red Bull but it was some very good defending by Webber. It was nice to see Button going for it, after all he had already won the championship, he could have just sat back and accepted third.
Nick Heidfeld, Kaumi Kobayashi and Sebastien Buemi all having good races. Kobayashi impressing again beating his far more experienced team mate, I hope Toyota give him a drive next year.

[F1boat]

After the exciting practice and qualy and the thrilling GP2 races, the race was a bit anticlimatic for me.

[christophulus]

It's a shame that the season ended on a low. Brazil was a good race and should've been the climax really. It's not the track that is at fault though, we've seen semi-processional races all year.

With no refuelling next year the races could get even worse, something needs to be done a.s.a.p to liven it up. Otherwise any new UK viewers gained from a second successive British champion are going to switch off.

[Jag_Warrior]

Decent race. Bummer to see Lewis' car break - still got Kimi for 5th though (and McLaren gets Ferrari for 3rd :p ).

But what realy amazed me about this race was that flat out gorgeous circuit! Man, that place is beautiful. I wasn't a fan of Bernie's Middle East strategy at first. But this race by itself makes me have second thoughts on that. I hope this race stays around for a LONG time!

[F1boat]

I thought the circuit looked very spectacular from an architectural point of view and maybe now we can drop Bahrain from the calendar as we don't need two GP's from the same region IMO... I would also be happy for Singapore to disappear now that Abu Dhabi has also covered the night race fad... :)

A fairly boring race overall but thoroughly enjoyed the Webber/Button battle at the end, which I'm sure woke most viewers up.. :p

IMO Abu Dhabi and Singapore are cool, Bahrain so so.

[Sarah]

Only saw part of the race but the last few laps were exciting. Seemed a lot better than the other new tracks but I did keep thinking it looked like Selfridges too.

[BDunnell]

Am I alone in thinking that the TV coverage of these 'night' races makes them look like they lack atmosphere? Were it not for occasional shots of the grandstands, you might have been forgiven for thinking that there were no spectators in Singapore and Abu Dhabi. It just looks odd to me.

[F1boat]

I dunno. For me night races look futuristic and with very cool atmosphere.

[ArrowsFA1]

Aside from the spectacular setting, wonderful facilities and lovely lights on the hotel the circuit itself didn't offer anything different or better from the point of view of the racing.

These night races are different, but as the novelty wears off I wonder what we'll be left with. Still, this was certainly a spectacular addition to the calendar.

[AndyL]

I'm wondering what will happen if it rains at one of these night races. When it happened in MotoGP (in Qatar of all places) they postponed the race until the Monday because the glare of the lights on wet visors caused too much of a visibility problem.

[wedge]

Am I alone in thinking that the TV coverage of these 'night' races makes them look like they lack atmosphere? Were it not for occasional shots of the grandstands, you might have been forgiven for thinking that there were no spectators in Singapore and Abu Dhabi. It just looks odd to me.

You mean you want the spectators to hold their mobile phones and lighters in the air?

Stamping their feet and clapping their hands to Queen/We Will Rock You?

Sing vile/crude/humourous football style chants?

Fans banging drums?

[BeansBeansBeans]

You mean you want the spectators to hold their mobile phones and lighters in the air?

Stamping their feet and clapping their hands to Queen/We Will Rock You?

Sing vile/crude/humourous football style chants?

Fans banging drums?

Atmosphere is one of those things that you can't quite put your finger on. I doubt BDunnell was pining for any of the above, just more of a 'buzz'.

[harsha]

I'm wondering what will happen if it rains at one of these night races. When it happened in MotoGP (in Qatar of all places) they postponed the race until the Monday because the glare of the lights on wet visors caused too much of a visibility problem.

I don't think Abu Dhabi is gonna have much chance of Rain though :D

but Rain in singapore is a def possibility...heavy rains even

[AndyRAC]

I'm wondering what will happen if it rains at one of these night races. When it happened in MotoGP (in Qatar of all places) they postponed the race until the Monday because the glare of the lights on wet visors caused too much of a visibility problem.


Funnily enough, I did think that, and my dad did ask what would happen? I presume the same as Qatar, but being F1, maybe not.

As amazing a 'facility' as it is - anybody else feel that these new monuments to Bernie, are just a little bit clinical, and without soul?

[veeten]

Atmosphere is one of those things that you can't quite put your finger on. I doubt BDunnell was pining for any of the above, just more of a 'buzz'.

and THAT, my friend, is the thing that strikes one the most when confronted with these 'Tilke-tracks', the overall lack of substance and the overwhelming amount of flash & panache.

But, then again, that's Bernie's vision of modern day Formula 1; less about actual sport, and more about makin' money. :dozey:

[Dave B]

Atmosphere is one of those things that you can't quite put your finger on. I doubt BDunnell was pining for any of the above, just more of a 'buzz'.
The best atmospheres always seem to come when a home crowd has got a driver (or team) to cheer for.

You've only got to look at the Tifosi's passion for Ferrari, the Brazillians' love of Massa and Barrichello, and the Lewis/Jenson-mania at Silverstone.

With so many circuits in the region now, surely it's only a matter of time before we get a Middle-Eastern driver in F1.

[wedge]

The best atmospheres always seem to come when a home crowd has got a driver (or team) to cheer for.

You've only got to look at the Tifosi's passion for Ferrari, the Brazillians' love of Massa and Barrichello, and the Lewis/Jenson-mania at Silverstone.

With so many circuits in the region now, surely it's only a matter of time before we get a Middle-Eastern driver in F1.

Not necessarily so.

What about the Aussies, Canadians, Americans?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Nice track, a little clinical, but the setting overcomes that.

As for the racing? For F1, pretty good at the end, but I cant say that was so stirring I am panting for next season. Taking away refuelling will make the racing MORE dull IMO

[F1boat]

Aside from the spectacular setting, wonderful facilities and lovely lights on the hotel the circuit itself didn't offer anything different or better from the point of view of the racing.


But is the track or the cars to blame? The GP 2 races were terrific. Also I have to say that had Lewis not retired, the race might have been thrilling. The situation was just like that - Red Bull dominated, Brawn GP were behind them and McLaren retired. That's it.

[schmenke]

Watching the YA(WN)S Marina race, I couldn't help but get the feeling that the extra-long front straight had the effect of making an already boring race, even more boring. I'm all for straight sections in an F1 circuit, but what's the point of a 3/4-mile long section when an F1 car acheives top speed in the first few meters? :s

[ShiftingGears]

Watching the YA(WN)S Marina race, I couldn't help but get the feeling that the extra-long front straight had the effect of making an already boring race, even more boring. I'm all for straight sections in an F1 circuit, but what's the point of a 3/4-mile long section when an F1 car acheives top speed in the first few meters? :s

Slipstreaming.


What they could've done with the circuit is put in some undulations in it, some on camber and off camber corners, and a variety of corner speeds.
Since the whole island is man-made, that shouldn't be too much of an effort for them.
Considering they built some huge hotel with ridiculous coloured lights all over it, its obvious they'd have nothing better to spend their money on.

[ShiftingGears]

Not necessarily so.

What about the Aussies, Canadians, Americans?

If Webber is in genuine contention for the Australian grand prix victory next year, you will get a lot of crowd cheering.

[schmenke]

...Considering they built some huge hotel with ridiculous coloured lights all over it ....

Not to mention that adjacent hideous red monstrosity...


:p :

[wedge]

What they could've done with the circuit is put in some undulations in it, some on camber and off camber corners, and a variety of corner speeds.
Since the whole island is man-made, that shouldn't be too much of an effort for them.
Considering they built some huge hotel with ridiculous coloured lights all over it, its obvious they'd have nothing better to spend their money on.

The final section into the hotel/marina the corners are off-camber. It looked obvious on TV.

But yes, I agree that the rest are gimmicks. I've come to the point where I have now ran out of excuses for Tilke. Bernie's vision for circuits is that they should resemble Norman Foster airports with fancy architecture for grandstands, pit and paddock complex.

China - plenty of land and corrupt officials and what do we get? A race track sitting ontop of a swamp! And what is it with the fixation for harbour settings?

[aryan]

The only good Tilke track is Turkey. Having seen Yas Marina now, I'm tempted to think of Istanbul more as an aberration for Tilke.

How many Tilke tracks are there now on calendar?
1. Sepang
2. Bahrain
3. Singapore
4. Valencia
5. Istanbul
6. Shanghai
7. Abu Dhabi

And Fuji, Nurburgring, Hockenheim and Barcelona have also had Tilke modifications to them.

I think it's time to stop. More than half the circuits are now designed by this man. It's enough.

[Dave B]

Not necessarily so.

What about the Aussies, Canadians, Americans?

My list was never intended to be exhaustive.


The only good Tilke track is Turkey. Having seen Yas Marina now, I'm tempted to think of Istanbul more as an aberration for Tilke.

I think it's time to stop. More than half the circuits are now designed by this man. It's enough.
Totally agreed, the man is single-handedly wrecking F1 history. The best circuits are the best circuits because they've gradually evolved and changed over the decades. Like all evolutionary processes the poorer tracks are unloved and abandoned, while the Spas and Silverstones of the world adapt and thrive.

You can't just plonk some tarmac in the desert and expect it to be an instant success, no matter how much money you throw at it.

[Saint Devote]

Yas Marina is crass, ostentatious and ugly. If ever there has been a statement that shows the sport has become more about the overfed and overpaid people of f1 then this is it.

Stupid statements by the idiot f1 journalists at Autosport saying that this is THE BEST grand prix EVER only confirm how disgusting the sport has become.

Is this what we want as fans? A grand prix in the middle of nowhere in a place that cares NOTHING about motor racing and exists only because money is no object - courtesy of petro-dollars.

Just thinking about this so-called racing circuit raises my ire. It disgusts me. And if this is what Bernie sees as the future of f1 then I will for the first time stand against him.

And if they had shown one more shot during the grand prix of scruffy unshaven, greasy men in white sheet-like robes I would have thrown up. Was that Nicholas Todt unshaven in a white sheet walking with Massa or am I mistaken??

And yes I DO object to holding grands prix in places that view women as second class citizens.

This, as much as China and Bahrain and Malaysia is f1's disgrace.

This is what we get in place of the great circuits of the world? A serenade of dictatorships?

F1 is becoming the disgraceful sport with its god, money as its only goal.

[F1boat]

Yas Marina is crass, ostentatious and ugly. If ever there has been a statement that shows the sport has become more about the overfed and overpaid people of f1 then this is it.

Stupid statements by the idiot f1 journalists at Autosport saying that this is THE BEST grand prix EVER only confirm how disgusting the sport has become.

Is this what we want as fans? A grand prix in the middle of nowhere in a place that cares NOTHING about motor racing and exists only because money is no object - courtesy of petro-dollars.

Just thinking about this so-called racing circuit raises my ire. It disgusts me. And if this is what Bernie sees as the future of f1 then I will for the first time stand against him.

And if they had shown one more shot during the grand prix of scruffy unshaven, greasy men in white sheet-like robes I would have thrown up. Was that Nicholas Todt unshaven in a white sheet walking with Massa or am I mistaken??

And yes I DO object to holding grands prix in places that view women as second class citizens.

This, as much as China and Bahrain and Malaysia is f1's disgrace.

This is what we get in place of the great circuits of the world? A serenade of dictatorships?

F1 is becoming the disgraceful sport with its god, money as its only goal.

I disagree very much with your statement. F1 is a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, not a European one. The Abu Dhabi racetrack was beautiful and visually stunning. It catches casual fans. Many friends of mine watched the race with great pleasure. About the lack of passing, well, I am not sure that the track is the problem. The race at Silverstone was the same snorefest. Check the GP2 races. They were extremely exciting.
About the political thing. The EU outlawed the tobacco sponsorship. Other people came, with money. Abu Dhabi now sponsors Ferrari. What should we do now? Ban tobacco, ban dictatorships, ban alcohol, ban sweets, ban everything which is politically incorrect?
Sorry. I disagree with you. The Abu Dhabi GP was a unique event and I think that it has the right to be in F1. The dedication of the people who built this event was amazing.

[Saint Devote]

I disagree very much with your statement. F1 is a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, not a European one. The Abu Dhabi racetrack was beautiful and visually stunning. It catches casual fans. Many friends of mine watched the race with great pleasure. About the lack of passing, well, I am not sure that the track is the problem. The race at Silverstone was the same snorefest. Check the GP2 races. They were extremely exciting.
About the political thing. The EU outlawed the tobacco sponsorship. Other people came, with money. Abu Dhabi now sponsors Ferrari. What should we do now? Ban tobacco, ban dictatorships, ban alcohol, ban sweets, ban everything which is politically incorrect?
Sorry. I disagree with you. The Abu Dhabi GP was a unique event and I think that it has the right to be in F1. The dedication of the people who built this event was amazing.

If f1 is a world championship then why is there no race in Africa, two in the mid-east that are really a stones throw from each other, no United States grand prix, maybe a Canadian one and only one South American race as well as Bernie saying the European races such as Britain, France and Germeny are all expendable - oh and TWO in Spain?

It is a world championship sort of and that anthems are played pretending that countries are competing against each other when most of the drivers do not live in their "home" countries is laughable.

Do you know that Jenson has not lived in the UK for TEN years now?

Overtaking is not about the tracks - it is the front and rear wings and tyres that are responsible. But then why should the idiot bureaucrats including the French midget now in the seat listen to engineers?

So you consider grands prix in despotic kingdoms okay? Simply because docile Europeans have allowed the EU to dictate to them does not equate tobacco with the regions f1 now caters to and does not make the EU dictates just or correct.

Nobody has a right to be iin f1 - they are their because Bernie does not mind cuddling with dictators with gazillions of oil money - and we know Bernie's view of Hitler!

The event be damned. It is the self-centered view that has become the norm for too many in f1 that has them fawning over a racing track that has nothing to offer other than gawdy ostentation.

Yas Marina is a motor racing tower of babel and has nothing in common with motor racing. The only vehicle riding on that circuit ought to be bulldozers.

I find it disgusting and a disgrace that f1 has become the whore of rich dictators.

Whats next? A grand prix of Iran or Venezuela?

[Valve Bounce]

I know he's frothing at the mouth doctor, but has he stopped breathing yet??

[F1boat]

If f1 is a world championship then why is there no race in Africa, two in the mid-east that are really a stones throw from each other, no United States grand prix, maybe a Canadian one and only one South American race as well as Bernie saying the European races such as Britain, France and Germeny are all expendable - oh and TWO in Spain?


I agree that it will be good to have a race in Africa and it is necessary to return in the United States. But I still disagree with your opinion about the Etihad Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi, which I find to be a thrilling event. About the Babel think, when Babylon (that's the name I know) is a great ancient culture and a race should be proud to be compared with it, no matter the opinion of fundies ;)

[K-Pu]

I agree that it will be good to have a race in Africa and it is necessary to return in the United States. But I still disagree with your opinion about the Etihad Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi, which I find to be a thrilling event. About the Babel think, when Babylon (that's the name I know) is a great ancient culture and a race should be proud to be compared with it, no matter the opinion of fundies ;)

Babel and Babylon have nothing to do one with the other. The tower of Babel was something men built trying to reach heavens, thus being as powerful as God. Obviously, God went bananas and punished men. Until then they all spoke the same language, but God made them speak in different languages to confuse them. With such situation, they had to stop building that tower and that´s where all the languages come from. IIRC the myth is something like this...

But back to the topic:

Yes, F1 is a world championship, but why racing in a country where people don´t care about racing at all? Why scrapping races where people do care a lot? The empty grandstands at Istanbul are a good example of what we could expect of such GP´s. China is another good example but a bit different, because China has an enormous potential market for F1 and anything that can be sold, but we still see empty grandstands at their GP because the tickets are deadly expensive for most of people there. In fact, they are expensive for anyone. After the people-can´t-pay-that GP´s we have the I-won´t-be blackmailed GP´s, with Singapore and Abu Dhabi as good examples. There, hotel rooms become instantly i don´t know how many times more expensive, and you are forced to stay for a minimum of 5 nights with rocketing prices. Yes, the organization saw a great business there, but what did they get? Far less people there than expected. Of course there are absurdly rich people out there, but not all of them are willing to throw their money down the flush if they can use their influences to be there withouth having to pay some thousand dollars for a hotel room.

And then we have the uncomparable example of Spain, where a political party has bought a GP (Valencia Street Sedation), and they have no problems in saying it loud and clear. The PP (that political party) had clearly statede that if they were not elected, we could say bye bye to the Valencia GP, because they were the only ones who were going to pour some zillions into that money pit and are untouchable by law, as they are continously demonstrating. They also promised to develop the city with the circuit. In fact, they even built a new bridge and tried to sell it as an urban circuit, but reality is quite different, because HUGE sections of the track (including the bridge) are permanently closed to traffic, so where´s the urban circuit?

And all of this comes with another interesting factor: we have another GP in Montmeló. The trend should be that countries with two GP´s would be stripped of one of them (as Bernie said), but then why the f*ck we have 2 GP´s in Spain and none in France, USA, Canada or any other country who has the fan base and is not a business planned by a few illuminated (by gold) minds?

Conlcussions: F1 is a big business, and they´d put a GP on the Moon if Bernie gets a good deal.

Yas Marina, Marina Bay and the other new marina (Valencia Street Circuit is another marina) are good examples of what shouldn´t be done. There is only one Monaco, which is a different case, and what a coincidence they are all marinas... why could it be? Maybe because poeple with LOTS of money can waste it in a yacth and in 5 hotel nights?

These tracks are what manufacturers are to F1. Yes, they look very good and have spent more money than anyone else, but whe things go wrong (at some point they will, of course) they´ll withdraw and that´s all, and we won´t miss them very much. Would you miss Valencia SC as you´d miss Spa?

[Saint Devote]

Well said K-Pu!!

[Valve Bounce]

I'm sure Bernie will be upset, and probably cry all the way to the bank. BUT the visuals from Yas Marina were fantastic on my TV and since I didn't have to pay anything to watch it, I really shouldn't complain too much about the greedy dwarf.

[K-Pu]

I'm sure Bernie will be upset, and probably cry all the way to the bank. BUT the visuals from Yas Marina were fantastic on my TV and since I didn't have to pay anything to watch it, I really shouldn't complain too much about the greedy dwarf.

Yes, it was nice to see it (really nice, I really mean it), but if I had to choose between Spa and Yas Marina, I´d prefer Spa and I wouldn´t forget how they managed to build that good looking track and what´s behind it.

[wedge]

I'm all for a world championship but why stick with Tilke-dromes?

[motetarip]

I'm no objector to new circuits but dislike the general dreariness of the new street circuits. I think visually as a spectator Yas Marina was great, however I can't help feeling it must be incredibly dull as a driver to see nothing but tarmac and barriers for up to 2 hours, especially at Singapore and Valencia. Places like Spa are wide open tracks where you can see the driver in front seconds ahead of you. Its only my experience of racing games but I tend to up the pace when I can see the guy in front as a speck in the distance.

[F1boat]

First, about Babel and Babylon, I am pretty sure that it is the same town. IMO this is another religious trashing of one great ancient culture (like the myth about the plagues which hit Egypt), and a myth which teaches humans to be sheep, but I guess that this is a topic for other discussions, so I'll leave it. The racing topic is interesting enough, after all. Some of the points K-Pu made are very good, but in my opinion we shouldn't choose between Spa and Abu Dhabi - we can have both. Also, for Abu Dhabi, all tickets were sold, from what i heard, so it is not true that it is not successful. I think, although I am not entirely sure, that Singapore was also very successful. The Spanish races struggled really, but I do think that this is because Alonso was not in an competitive car. Had the Spaniard been able to fight for the win, I think that the grandstands would have been full. About the fact which track is interesting and which is not, that obviously is a matter of taste, but I love Marinas. Don't get me wrong, I'd too choose Spa over Abu Dhabi or Singapore (not over Monaco, though), but I'll happily have the Marina tracks over Hungaroring, Sakhir, Sepang, Istanbul Park or even Barcelona. My opinion is that the racing is hurt more from aero than from tracks. The GP2 races in Abu Dhabi was super. The F1 race was a snorefest. But it was exactly the same snorefest as Silverstone, IMO. So the track is not to blame and also we can not realistically expect every race to be a cracker. Sometimes one team is just very well prepared and dominates, the others are simply well prepared and duly follow. I bet than a final caution would have spiced the race, but do we want this? I think not, I actually think that we want a fantasy sport in which every lap is like Star Wars podracing, but this can't really happen. And for what was many years before, well I have never seen it, but I have read many opinion that every era had its own share of dull races. This is a sport, not a movie. Sometimes we have dull races or even dull seasons. But with stunning fast cars and a beautiful track I can enjoy even a dull season.

[truefan72]

Yas Marina is crass, ostentatious and ugly. If ever there has been a statement that shows the sport has become more about the overfed and overpaid people of f1 then this is it.

Stupid statements by the idiot f1 journalists at Autosport saying that this is THE BEST grand prix EVER only confirm how disgusting the sport has become.

Is this what we want as fans? A grand prix in the middle of nowhere in a place that cares NOTHING about motor racing and exists only because money is no object - courtesy of petro-dollars.

Just thinking about this so-called racing circuit raises my ire. It disgusts me. And if this is what Bernie sees as the future of f1 then I will for the first time stand against him.

And if they had shown one more shot during the grand prix of scruffy unshaven, greasy men in white sheet-like robes I would have thrown up. Was that Nicholas Todt unshaven in a white sheet walking with Massa or am I mistaken??

And yes I DO object to holding grands prix in places that view women as second class citizens.

This, as much as China and Bahrain and Malaysia is f1's disgrace.

This is what we get in place of the great circuits of the world? A serenade of dictatorships?

F1 is becoming the disgraceful sport with its god, money as its only goal.


just so you know, Europe and much of the west still treat women as second class citizen's with unequal pay compensations and more.

you come of sounding like someone with a serious problem that has little to do with sports. And this isn;t the first time either that you have injected your own shallow world views into a discussion about sports. Ever the more sensitive you should be based on the flag you waive in your profile. So I suggest you leave the politics and rude comments about people's appearances out of these discussions quickly.

This post is a new low.

[MakinenLoeb]

I personally like to see new circuits in any form of motorsport and Yas Marina is no exception. It is a fantastic track but hey, no track will ever live up to Spa and Nurburgrings sweeping forests, and we have to come to grips with that.

[Saint Devote]

just so you know, Europe and much of the west still treat women as second class citizen's with unequal pay compensations and more.

you come of sounding like someone with a serious problem that has little to do with sports. And this isn;t the first time either that you have injected your own shallow world views into a discussion about sports. Ever the more sensitive you should be based on the flag you waive in your profile. So I suggest you leave the politics and rude comments about people's appearances out of these discussions quickly.

This post is a new low.

Formula one has double standards - there was a time when South Africa was excluded because of apartheid.

I am against nations having grands prix that are fundamentally opposed to every Western principle. And there are unfortunately too many in f1 today that hold grands prix.

And looking at the geographic map where races are held, calling it a WORLD championship has become a name not the reality.

No grand prix in North America - Canada is not at all confirmed - and two in the despotic part of the mid-east with races in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi is just the most laughable situation if it were not the way it is.

And regardless of the above the Yas Marina circuit would not impress me. It reminds me of corporations with more form than substance. They too have opulent surroundings, gawdy and crass demonstrations with gimmicks galore.

Because there is nothing there and ultimately it fails.

You may not like what I say, but that is my observation, how I see it and nothing more.

You have introduced politics into this discussion not I - I discuss ethics and it does offend me that a capitalist sport like formula 1 is held in places that hate capitalists and the nations they come from.

[Saint Devote]

I'm all for a world championship but why stick with Tilke-dromes?

Bernie wants it that way. You as a fan are not important. As long as he can fill 50,000 seats - anywhere - and get paid, with tv rights to follow, he will.

Sadly we are indeed looking at a time where there will maybe only be a race in Europe at Monte Carlo [with wannbees and can never bees such as Yas Marina pretending that they can compete with Monte Carlo] and Monza.

The rest scattered amongst countries that the US State Department has on a "travel warning" list!

[Saint Devote]

I personally like to see new circuits in any form of motorsport and Yas Marina is no exception. It is a fantastic track but hey, no track will ever live up to Spa and Nurburgrings sweeping forests, and we have to come to grips with that.

It did not have to be this way. The prblems began when the aerodynamicists got hold of the sport. The cars became unable to handle the great circuits.

The real racing drivers would accept the challenge of the old circuits gladly and the fans would applaud in joy.

After the Japanese Grand Prix, Nico Rosberg made a fan of me. He was asked about how "dangerous" Suzuka had become and the comments by that little girl named Mark Webber who always bleats like a wounded sheep.

He dismissed that Suzuka was dangerous and commented that "nobody got killed" and that they should learn to drive properly. His father must have been so very proud. I was.

[F1boat]

I am against nations having grands prix that are fundamentally opposed to every Western principle. And there are unfortunately too many in f1 today that hold grands prix.

And looking at the geographic map where races are held, calling it a WORLD championship has become a name not the reality.



But then you want then a Western Championship, not a World one.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm confused here: What is a Western Principle?

[motetarip]

I'm confused here: What is a Western Principle?

Capitalism, imperialism, alcoholism and fornication? All the good things in life basically... :s mokin:

[Dave B]

To quote someone else, Bernie wants it that way. You as a fan are not important. As long as he can fill 50,000 seats - anywhere - and get paid, with tv rights to follow, he will.

[Valve Bounce]

Capitalism, imperialism, alcoholism and fornication? All the good things in life basically... :s mokin:

Oh yeah!! I almost forgot - how about organisation four or five hookers to come and give the boss a whipping while he yells out "ein, zwei, drei!!"? That would be fun, wouldn't it?

[F1boat]

Lewis likes botn Abu Dhabi and Suzuka. We can have both, buddies :)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80055

[Mark in Oshawa]

To quote someone else, Bernie wants it that way. You as a fan are not important. As long as he can fill 50,000 seats - anywhere - and get paid, with tv rights to follow, he will.

With thinking like that, and dull races, You would think F1 was hurting for fans. THe problem is, they are not...

[motetarip]

Oh yeah!! I almost forgot - how about organisation four or five hookers to come and give the boss a whipping while he yells out "ein, zwei, drei!!"? That would be fun, wouldn't it?

Lmao I think we may have found a new way to spice F1 up, Mosley style! :D

[Saint Devote]

But then you want then a Western Championship, not a World one.

No. I want a world championship with a grands prix that are representative of Western principles. It would exclude most of the new races.

The ONLY reason that Bernie bends over for dictators is because they are prepared to pay a price above what a grand prix is actually worth.

And I am opposed to grands prix that are paid for by governments.

My ideal is a world championship at real racing circuits not ostentatious aberrations like Yas Marina that was more a celebration of everything that is tasteless and gaudy and sucked up to anyone considered a celebrity.

In a recent Autosport there was post Yas Marina column written that essentially says it almost all.

To his credit, Hamilton was the only driver to speak out some truths about Yas Marina.

[Saint Devote]

With thinking like that, and dull races, You would think F1 was hurting for fans. THe problem is, they are not...

Well I have never considered an f1 race dull. I enjoy them all and being at a grand prix is different to watching it on tv of course.

But there is a significant problem when in Japan of all places, there are empty seats in the grandstands.

[Valve Bounce]

You may not like what I say, but that is my observation, how I see it and nothing more.

You have introduced politics into this discussion not I - I discuss ethics and it does offend me that a capitalist sport like formula 1 is held in places that hate capitalists and the nations they come from.

Well, you are skirting around the edges of racial and cultural vilification, itching for a fight with anyone who dares to disagree.

Basically, you bring little to the table at Motorsport Forum.

[Saint Devote]

Well, you are skirting around the edges of racial and cultural vilification, itching for a fight with anyone who dares to disagree.

Basically, you bring little to the table at Motorsport Forum.

You are being melodramatic.

I was not born there, and I do not live there now, but I was raised in Texas from little to 18 years old, the most influential part of anyone's life and I call it like I see it.

Just because you disagree with me does not make me wrong. Western culture, specifically American, is superior to all those that scorn individual liberty.

Motor racing is the sport of capitalism and I am offended and saddened that f1 cavorts with tyrranies that hate us for who we are yet envy us, for what we have.

Where is the greatest market for Ferrari? Is it the UAE? No. It is the United States of America. Where can you easily fill grandstands with 100,000 people? At a US grand prix. Yet the UAE have TWO grands prix.

Yet we have no grand prix here. Disgrace.

The FIA could put a stop to this and Jean Todt has, I am thrilled to say a few days ago indicated that he will not allow further traditional venues to be usurped in favor of new venues without any attachment to motor racing. He is going to make the FIA use its available power unlike Mosely, not to rubber stamp f1 decisions by Bernie, but to govern properly without favor.

As Autosport correctly noted, to Abu Dahbi, formula one is merely a means to an end. It is merely part of a gauche entertainment center that views f1 as an interesting promotion. And if the moment takes it, will also drop it.

Lewis Hamilton went part of the way commenting on Yas Marina and clearly indicated that the circuit as superb as the facilities are, is not at all ideal, the place has no character and the traditional venues are still better and should be retained.

[airshifter]

You are being melodramatic.

I was not born there, and I do not live there now, but I was raised in Texas from little to 18 years old, the most influential part of anyone's life and I call it like I see it.

Just because you disagree with me does not make me wrong. Western culture, specifically American, is superior to all those that scorn individual liberty.

Motor racing is the sport of capitalism and I am offended and saddened that f1 cavorts with tyrranies that hate us for who we are yet envy us, for what we have.

Where is the greatest market for Ferrari? Is it the UAE? No. It is the United States of America. Where can you easily fill grandstands with 100,000 people? At a US grand prix. Yet the UAE have TWO grands prix.

Yet we have no grand prix here. Disgrace.

The FIA could put a stop to this and Jean Todt has, I am thrilled to say a few days ago indicated that he will not allow further traditional venues to be usurped in favor of new venues without any attachment to motor racing. He is going to make the FIA use its available power unlike Mosely, not to rubber stamp f1 decisions by Bernie, but to govern properly without favor.

As Autosport correctly noted, to Abu Dahbi, formula one is merely a means to an end. It is merely part of a gauche entertainment center that views f1 as an interesting promotion. And if the moment takes it, will also drop it.

Lewis Hamilton went part of the way commenting on Yas Marina and clearly indicated that the circuit as superb as the facilities are, is not at all ideal, the place has no character and the traditional venues are still better and should be retained.


If that is the way you feel you don't really want a world championship at all. You want others to provide for a western championship with worldwide tracks.

Having been born in Texas myself, I find your views shallow and pompous at best. We have no grand prixs here due to the small fan base, and lack of interest in part comes from the lack of information on things "other than American". US fans embrace NASCAR in the way the european countries embrace F1, yet the US lacks in F1 following just as many of these "new" countries providing new tracks do. Being that they have exposure, maybe their fan base will grow quicker.

Racing to me isn't about politics. It's about racing. And though there are a small handful of countries I would prefer to never see F1 enter in the near future, there are far more I would love to see embrace the sport and bring us new venues to race at.


IMHO the older tracks that many of us love will fade away, and more and more tracks will become like Yas Marina. For the price invested they need to keep filling seats, and ensuring the fans can actually see the race from those seats will help with filling them. We just need designers that can do that while creating a more challenging and diverse track layout.

[pino]

Please keep politics off here...thank you!

[F1boat]

Please keep politics off here...thank you!

I agree. Races should matter because of the event and the track.

[markabilly]

My list was never intended to be exhaustive.


Totally agreed, the man is single-handedly wrecking F1 history. The best circuits are the best circuits because they've gradually evolved and changed over the decades. Like all evolutionary processes the poorer tracks are unloved and abandoned, while the Spas and Silverstones of the world adapt and thrive.

it.

obvious truth, but you forgot 'real racing' as well as history
and a truth lost on those going gagaga over aduya.....

track was crap and they have to rely on gimmicks like the tunnel and a hotel with lights that make it look like some big gonad with a pair of balls in the middle of no where ..... :rolleyes:

:down:

[Mark in Oshawa]

This track is either loved or hated. It is all in the beholder. For a Tilke circuit, it is his best work. Still aint no Spa tho. Give me Silverstone too.....

[Saint Devote]

This track is either loved or hated. It is all in the beholder. For a Tilke circuit, it is his best work. Still aint no Spa tho. Give me Silverstone too.....

I disagree it is his best work, the Sepang track is far better and is a real racing circuit.

For me it is the entire concept that is Ass Marina which I find objectionable - I would be as opposed to an f1 track being part of Disneyland.

The track is incidental almost and is part of an entertainment project by the abu dabhi rulers that is part of a massive "new age" kind of scheme.

[Sonic]

.......a hotel with lights that make it look like some big gonad with a pair of balls in the middle of no where ..... :rolleyes:


Glad I wasn't the only one to think that. Justs watched the highlights on red button and the hotel looked like it had "blue balls" lol.

[K-Pu]

Glad I wasn't the only one to think that. Justs watched the highlights on red button and the hotel looked like it had "blue balls" lol.

It´s more like a road b*tch house, with all these blue and pink lights on it... An expensive one, of course. It has an interesting shape too! The ultimate place for adult entretainment!

[F1boat]

I disagree it is his best work, the Sepang track is far better and is a real racing circuit.

For me it is the entire concept that is Ass Marina .

It is a matter of taste, I rate Yas Marina much higher than Sepang, but calling the place with names is really immature.

[Saint Devote]

It is a matter of taste, I rate Yas Marina much higher than Sepang, but calling the place with names is really immature.

You are entitled to your view.

My comments are mild compared to what many of the British marshalls that officiated at the event were calling it!!

[Malbec]

There are as always two arguments. When F1 first went to Japan people were complaining that the sport was following money rather than going to places with a real motorsports heritage. Who the hell wants to go to some funny track called Suzuka anyway? Don't they make bikes?

Eventually some of these tracks will create their own heritage, in a few years time we'll talk about great races at Sepang or Turkey in the same breath as more traditional tracks.

Tilke's tracks are very F1 specific, giving the drivers, cars and engineers a proper test. Watch MotoGP races on Tilketracks and you'll see how far the tracks are adjusted for F1 needs at the expense of all other forms of motorsports because of the aero capabilities of F1 cars.

I think Turkey of all his tracks is the best, the long fast left hander at the back of the track combined with some sudden changes of height that force the cars to run with a higher rideheight force the teams to make a compromise, one that we the viewer don't see but causes a major setup conundrum for the teams and drivers.

That said, I didn't like Yas Marina and I think it speaks volumes that despite being held in the Middle East the entire timing of the race shows that it wasn't aimed at an Arab audience but directly packaged for a European one. If the locals can't drum up interest for the races whats the long term prospect for these massively expensive races, especially when the novelty wears off (and it will, quickly, with two races a season in close proximity in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi).

During the race the BBC commentators kept making reference to the pricetag. $800 million for the track, $800 for the hotel in the middle. If Bernie wants Britain to put as much money into Silverstone he can sod off. As much as I love both F1 and Silverstone neither is worth that level of money.

[AndyRAC]

There are as always two arguments. When F1 first went to Japan people were complaining that the sport was following money rather than going to places with a real motorsports heritage. Who the hell wants to go to some funny track called Suzuka anyway? Don't they make bikes?

Eventually some of these tracks will create their own heritage, in a few years time we'll talk about great races at Sepang or Turkey in the same breath as more traditional tracks.

Tilke's tracks are very F1 specific, giving the drivers, cars and engineers a proper test. Watch MotoGP races on Tilketracks and you'll see how far the tracks are adjusted for F1 needs at the expense of all other forms of motorsports because of the aero capabilities of F1 cars.

I think Turkey of all his tracks is the best, the long fast left hander at the back of the track combined with some sudden changes of height that force the cars to run with a higher rideheight force the teams to make a compromise, one that we the viewer don't see but causes a major setup conundrum for the teams and drivers.

That said, I didn't like Yas Marina and I think it speaks volumes that despite being held in the Middle East the entire timing of the race shows that it wasn't aimed at an Arab audience but directly packaged for a European one. If the locals can't drum up interest for the races whats the long term prospect for these massively expensive races, especially when the novelty wears off (and it will, quickly, with two races a season in close proximity in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi).

During the race the BBC commentators kept making reference to the pricetag. $800 million for the track, $800 for the hotel in the middle. If Bernie wants Britain to put as much money into Silverstone he can sod off. As much as I love both F1 and Silverstone neither is worth that level of money.

You make a very good point about Tilke's tracks being very F1 specific. And that in my mind, is a mistake. There is more to Motorsport than F1 - look what happened to Hockenheim, butchered purely for F1. Catalunya had a silly chicane added, fortunately the MotoGP boys have not used it. Most of the Tilke tracks used by MotoGP have proved to be short lived, as the racing is processional - and have been dropped.

[Valve Bounce]

You guys want to see a real track? Have a look at Mt Panorama at Bathurst. Now THAT is the ultimate racing track!!

[Saint Devote]

There are as always two arguments. When F1 first went to Japan people were complaining that the sport was following money rather than going to places with a real motorsports heritage. Who the hell wants to go to some funny track called Suzuka anyway? Don't they make bikes?

Eventually some of these tracks will create their own heritage, in a few years time we'll talk about great races at Sepang or Turkey in the same breath as more traditional tracks.

Tilke's tracks are very F1 specific, giving the drivers, cars and engineers a proper test. Watch MotoGP races on Tilketracks and you'll see how far the tracks are adjusted for F1 needs at the expense of all other forms of motorsports because of the aero capabilities of F1 cars.

I think Turkey of all his tracks is the best, the long fast left hander at the back of the track combined with some sudden changes of height that force the cars to run with a higher rideheight force the teams to make a compromise, one that we the viewer don't see but causes a major setup conundrum for the teams and drivers.

That said, I didn't like Yas Marina and I think it speaks volumes that despite being held in the Middle East the entire timing of the race shows that it wasn't aimed at an Arab audience but directly packaged for a European one. If the locals can't drum up interest for the races whats the long term prospect for these massively expensive races, especially when the novelty wears off (and it will, quickly, with two races a season in close proximity in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi).

During the race the BBC commentators kept making reference to the pricetag. $800 million for the track, $800 for the hotel in the middle. If Bernie wants Britain to put as much money into Silverstone he can sod off. As much as I love both F1 and Silverstone neither is worth that level of money.

Silverstone is in process of negotiating with Ecclestone and the track modifications and moving of the pit area to another part of Silverstone looks good.

The issue is that they want a long term contract.

[Saint Devote]

You guys want to see a real track? Have a look at Mt Panorama at Bathurst. Now THAT is the ultimate racing track!!

Absolutely agree!!

One of my favorite names in racing is "Conrod Straight"!

[F1boat]

Do you like the Algarve track?

[UltimateDanGTR]

Do you like the Algarve track?

Yes I do. i think its the best race track built in recent times. well, that and portrero de los funes in san luis that is. so pleased the WTCC will go to algarve next year, hope f1 does one day.

but to whom suggested Bathurst as the ULTIMATE track. err, great track. but the ULTIMATE track would be a 25 mile combination of the nurburgring nordschliefe, spa, la sarthe and bathurst IMO. but one can dream...........

[Valve Bounce]

but to whom suggested Bathurst as the ULTIMATE track. err, great track. but the ULTIMATE track would be a 25 mile combination of the nurburgring nordschliefe, spa, la sarthe and bathurst IMO. but one can dream...........

I don't think so. The Nurburgring might have been a good track to drive a BMW X5 around if it still existed today, but the track had too shortcomings to be compared with today's race tracks. For a start, spectators get a short glimpse of the cars for a very short while then have to wait for ages for them to come around again. And sections of it would require huge improvements to the surface

Bathurst IS the ultimate track - long uphill straight, long downhill straight with a fast corner at its end, great challenging three dimensional corners through the mountain top. You won't beat that.

The only problem is that the mountain section's curves have too much in flexes and changes of vertical and horizontal curvature that F1 cars' downforce devices simply cannot cope with it. But then, who would want that fantastic landscape turned into Stalag 17 with F1's fences!! :eek:

[wedge]

Problem with Bathurst is that there's no Flugplatz/130R type of corner - long straight then a near flat corner.

Compared to the rest of the track its a minor fault and easily a top 5 race track in the world.

[Valve Bounce]

Problem with Bathurst is that there's no Flugplatz/130R type of corner - long straight then a near flat corner.

Compared to the rest of the track its a minor fault and easily a top 5 race track in the world.

OK! I'll bite!! Why would anyone want a Flugplatz/130R at Bathurst? There is The Chase at the bottom of Conrod, and if that ain't challenging enough, then what is? http://www.therealmountpanorama.com/bathursttour/chase.php

[F1boat]

Yes I do. i think its the best race track built in recent times. well, that and portrero de los funes in san luis that is. so pleased the WTCC will go to algarve next year, hope f1 does one day.


I hope so too. The GP2 race there was brilliant, very exciting.

[Saint Devote]

Yes I do. i think its the best race track built in recent times. well, that and portrero de los funes in san luis that is. so pleased the WTCC will go to algarve next year, hope f1 does one day.

but to whom suggested Bathurst as the ULTIMATE track. err, great track. but the ULTIMATE track would be a 25 mile combination of the nurburgring nordschliefe, spa, la sarthe and bathurst IMO. but one can dream...........

Sounds like you would resurrect the Mille Miglia and Targa Florio - indeed one can dream..... :D

And I think Nico Rosberg would be the first to sign up!!

[UltimateDanGTR]

Sounds like you would resurrect the Mille Miglia and Targa Florio - indeed one can dream..... :D




now that is a dream........

commence the Targa Nurburglemans spahurst migliaflorio! :D

[wedge]

OK! I'll bite!! Why would anyone want a Flugplatz/130R at Bathurst? There is The Chase at the bottom of Conrod, and if that ain't challenging enough, then what is? http://www.therealmountpanorama.com/bathursttour/chase.php

Nah, it leads immediately into a braking zone.

I'd say McFillermy. Brockie and Dickie Johnson getting lairy on the exit by carrying too much speed into the corner.

[Valve Bounce]

Nah, it leads immediately into a braking zone.

I'd say McFillermy. Brockie and Dickie Johnson getting lairy on the exit by carrying too much speed into the corner.

I meant challenging for your Flugplatz!! not another corner at Bathurst. :rolleyes:

[wedge]

I meant challenging for your Flugplatz!! not another corner at Bathurst. :rolleyes:

????