IMS on the Sales Block? [Archive]

Blancvino

26th October 2009, 14:03

Read it on AR1 today. But a few weeks back I heard from a couple of fairly well placed Indianapolis sources (lawyer friends) the sisters want to sell the facility for the money and don't give a hoot about the place. At the time I dismissed it as rumor mongering.

In my view, this is a bad idea. No one will care for the place like the Hulman family.

Anyone else hearing "stuff"? Does this "story" have any legs?

Who would buy it if it did sell?

SarahFan

26th October 2009, 14:13

http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/83304/?UserDef=true&catID=2257&tf=bruce_martin.tpl

^recent story from bruce martin has direct quotes from one of the sisters about the future of the IRL and IMS etc...

of coarse Versus has claimed 30 million viewers for the season when the #'s clearly equal closer to 3 or 4......

but cant see them selling the golden egg.... the IRL sure.... IMS, just cant imagine why they would

Blancvino

26th October 2009, 15:07

Lousada

26th October 2009, 15:09

http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/83304/?UserDef=true&catID=2257&tf=bruce_martin.tpl

^recent story from bruce martin has direct quotes from one of the sisters about the future of the IRL and IMS etc...

So they are planning to split it unto the 7 children? Plus the 4 'parents', that looks like chaos waiting to happen. The three sisters and Tony have obviously not been on the same track this year. Now imagine 7 people ambitious people trying to get along. This has all the makings of a melodramatic soap opera.

but cant see them selling the golden egg.... the IRL sure.... IMS, just cant imagine why they would
Well, the sisters are wealthy because of the speedway. But their wealth is all bricks and aluminium. Common business sense says that you must spread your investments to spread the risk.
Or perhaps they don't like being in the public eyes.
I don't think there is a lot they can do with their experience in management to make IMS and the IRL more profitable. TG is the only one who has the experience and the connections (and still failed) but he is out of it.

SarahFan

26th October 2009, 15:18

Lousada

26th October 2009, 15:33

I dont think there is any question that IMS is profitable.....and can't imagine scenerio where it wont to continue to be for another decade....

the IRL clearly a different story....

I asked this question on another forum earlier today.....why must the IRL be profitable?

sure it needs to be self sufficient to the point it can attract and maintain quality personal etc...

but why profitable?

for example.....if sanctioning fees allowed the league to function, wouldn't the whole (teams/drivers/crews/etc) be better off with a title sponsor that instead of paying the l;eague 5 million, spent 15 million in activation?

It is profitable now yes I believe that. But the IRL is bleeding money that the IMS has to cover. From the looks of it, there is no improvement in the IRL at all. Worse, it's been going down for years and this year has been especially hard. If the IRL does not answer the bell it will be a huge blow to the 500 and IMS. The BY400 had a significant drop in attendance as well. I think the credit crisis is not helping sales of hospitality suites.
If the bottom line is made, perhaps there is not a lot of actual profit for the sisters left. Maybe they feel they can make more money with the revenue from a sale.
I'm just speculating for reasons why they might sell IMS. I have no idea what their actual intentions are or how their financials are.

SarahFan

26th October 2009, 15:36

It is profitable now yes I believe that. But the IRL is bleeding money that the IMS has to cover. From the looks of it, there is no improvement in the IRL at all. Worse, it's been going down for years and this year has been especially hard. If the IRL does not answer the bell it will be a huge blow to the 500 and IMS. The BY400 had a significant drop in attendance as well. I think the credit crisis is not helping sales of hospitality suites.
If the bottom line is made, perhaps there is not a lot of actual profit for the sisters left. Maybe they feel they can make more money with the revenue from a sale.
I'm just speculating for reasons why they might sell IMS. I have no idea what their actual intentions are or how their financials are.

say the IRL goes out of biz manana.....why would that effect the 500?

teams/drivers/sponsors are still going to show up in may IMO

Lousada

26th October 2009, 15:46

I asked this question on another forum earlier today.....why must the IRL be profitable?

Another thought. Technically the IRL does not have to be profitable indeed. But how much is it losing money now? Somewhere John Griffin says it costs 3 to 4 million to stage an ICS race in the US. I assume this is including TEAM payments. Santion fees are reported to be in the 1-1,5 million range, with some (Long Beach) considerably lower. TV Revenue is optimistically reported to be 6+4 million dollar. Let's say .5 million average per race. This still leaves a budgethole of at least 1 million per race, or more then 15 million a season. That is a lot of BY400 tickets to sell.

SarahFan

26th October 2009, 15:50

Another thought. Technically the IRL does not have to be profitable indeed. But how much is it losing money now? Somewhere John Griffin says it costs 3 to 4 million to stage an ICS race in the US. I assume this is including TEAM payments. Santion fees are reported to be in the 1-1,5 million range, with some (Long Beach) considerably lower. TV Revenue is optimistically reported to be 6+4 million dollar. Let's say .5 million average per race. This still leaves a budgethole of at least 1 million per race, or more then 15 million a season. That is a lot of BY400 tickets to sell.

I'd say those #'s are resonably close to reality...

that is alot of dough to come up short....you gotta wonder how long IMSetc is going to foot the bill

Lousada

26th October 2009, 15:52

say the IRL goes out of biz manana.....why would that effect the 500?

teams/drivers/sponsors are still going to show up in may IMO

Well, if that was the case, why don't they disband the IRL?? According to TG's own words it has never made a profit so why keep it going?

SarahFan

26th October 2009, 15:54

Well, if that was the case, why don't they disband the IRL?? According to TG's own words it has never made a profit so why keep it going?

i would imagine there has been many a discussion of just that over the past 6 or 7 months

wouldn't you?

how serios they have been remains to be seen

Lousada

26th October 2009, 16:08

i would imagine there has been many a discussion of just that over the past 6 or 7 months

wouldn't you?

how serios they have been remains to be seen

I would have done that long before that even...
The IRL is obviously worthless without the 500. However I wonder if IMS is worth more with the IRL or rather without the IRL.

SarahFan

26th October 2009, 16:13

I would have done that long before that even...
The IRL is obviously worthless without the 500. However I wonder if IMS is worth more with the IRL or rather without the IRL.

from where i sit its worth the same...

IMo if the IRL disappeared tomorrow in some form cars and drivers would show up in may to compete

Skater36

26th October 2009, 16:56

I hope they are not really entertaining this "crazy" notion.

I would not have brought this up if I did not see a rumor on AR1 site to this effect. It just got me rethinking about what two friends said (over drinks). They both are lawyers and if they were directly involved they would be bound by Client/Attorney privileges, that's why I was dismissive about it at the time.

Bruce Martin say's everything is fine and he wouldn't B.S. us right? :)

SarahFan

27th October 2009, 00:35

Some would. But 33? Or even close to that number?

I dont think 33 would be a problem....IMo of coarse

garyshell

27th October 2009, 00:47

I think you'd be hard pressed to get twenty cars, let alone 33. How many teams would be willing to field a car for a single race. There are a lot of costs that get amortized across a season. Doing that for a single race would be expensive.

Gary

Lee Roy

27th October 2009, 11:54

I think you'd be hard pressed to get twenty cars, let alone 33.

IMS could buy up the Dallaras from defunct teams and rent them out to one-off drivers/teams who wanted to try their hand at the Indy 500.

garyshell

27th October 2009, 13:30

IMS could buy up the Dallaras from defunct teams and rent them out to one-off drivers/teams who wanted to try their hand at the Indy 500.

That's only the tip of the iceberg. Where would you find 33 support teams? If there is no IRL all of the behind the scenes folks will be looking for full time work elsewhere. The pit crews, mechanics etc. are not going to sit around on their hands. I doubt you'd be able find enough folks for a one off race who are not otherwise engaged.

Gary

Blancvino

27th October 2009, 14:10

That's only the tip of the iceberg. Where would you find 33 support teams? If there is no IRL all of the behind the scenes folks will be looking for full time work elsewhere. The pit crews, mechanics etc. are not going to sit around on their hands. I doubt you'd be able find enough folks for a one off race who are not otherwise engaged.

Gary

How did it come to this? From my vantage point, the IMS/IRL are conjoined twins with little hope of separation without both expiring.

If this sale thing is true, do the sisters know what they might be about to do? They will become as popular as Berine Madoff. The IMS is part of the fabric of Indianapolis. They may have to go into the witness (culprit) protection program.

SarahFan

27th October 2009, 14:15

I'd go over the wall .... Any team needs a tire changer or a fueler for a couple wekends in may just drop me a pm..

I'll cover. My plane ticket(s) and grub.... If you can find me couch would be great

Lee Roy

27th October 2009, 15:16

That's only the tip of the iceberg. Where would you find 33 support teams? If there is no IRL all of the behind the scenes folks will be looking for full time work elsewhere. The pit crews, mechanics etc. are not going to sit around on their hands. I doubt you'd be able find enough folks for a one off race who are not otherwise engaged.

Gary

You never know. You might have a number of teams that run other open-wheel series such as USAC Sprint cars, Supermodifieds or NASCAR Modifieds for example, that might want to take a stab at winning the Indy 500. A team like that may not have enough people itself, but there might be enough skilled people from other teams that might want to be a part of the process.

IMS provides them the car and engine(s), and maybe even the tires, and the "team" does the rest.

SarahFan

27th October 2009, 15:37

That would truly spell the death of the 500. It would be amateur hour for sure and any claim to national fame would be gone.

Not to metion Ken, that you'd be recovering in the hospital from hernia surgery, sprained ankles etc. and terminal embarassment. As would most of the rest of us if we tried it. :p :p :p

I could go over the wall

Easy Drifter

27th October 2009, 18:48

Just a question Ken.
Have you ever worked in hot pits?
I have and in the days before speed limits. I have worked in FA (mostly) but also as an official in Indy car (USAC) and F1 pits. A long time ago.
People who do it all the time develop a 6th sense about the cars. You learn to understand engine notes, tire sounds and importantly anything sounding unusual. You know when and where to look quickly. I did 12 to 20 races a year plus testing.
The most dangerous in the pits were the first timers no matter what their job.
Even experienced people get hit or hurt.
Just a little story. Years ago the chief pit marshall at Mosport for all the pro races was a menace to himself and everybody else. He was forever yelling at his people, the fire people and mechanics. He was the one that always came closest to being hit. He never developed the ability to sense a car.
The worst/funniest was when he stepped back without looking right in front of an exiting F1 car. Ronnie Petersen grabbed him and literally lifted him above the cars wheels! Luckily Harry was a small man and Ronnie wasn't.
Another time he started in on me at an Atlantic race when I had been adjusting tires pressures during practice. I finally yelled back at him to get the f--- out from in front of the car before we ran him over. :eek:
I am not saying you couldn't do it but a bunch of new people could easily cause an accident.

SarahFan

27th October 2009, 20:07

EasyD....

Nope never worked the hotpits..... Would I be anervous scared rookie going over the first time .... He'll yes..as I suspect you were

Would I do exactly step by step as I told (practiced) before hand...again he'll ya....

Would I lay down record penske/gannassi times .... He'll no

But I could go over wall....... And even though the ankle isn't what it used to be ( 35 years of soccer will do that)..... The physical part as starter suggests wouldn't be a problem

Damn good point about 150 rookie crew members going over the wall on the first yellow at the 500....

I still don't finding 33 starters would be that big a deal

Easy Drifter

27th October 2009, 21:05

Was nervous every time I was in the hot pits. One way to stay alive! :D
I had also marshalled for over 60 events and raced for 9 years before I started crewing.
Only way to learn is to do it but best not to start at the top level.
Crewing in SCCA is a good start. Usually there are not pit stops in the races and you start to get the feel during practice and just being close to pitting cars.

Easy Drifter

27th October 2009, 21:46

Taking up my Mean and Nasty signature--- Especially if you work for or are near 'Stompin Danica's' pit! :D

Seriously though I think all of us who have followed racing for a while have seen too many pit incidents. The pit speed limits take away some of the drama of pit stops but have made thing far safer.

SoCalPVguy

28th October 2009, 02:14

Bob Riebe

28th October 2009, 15:04

I've mentioed before that the property itself is worth a significant chunk of change. It could be developed as a housing/shopping/business park - with onsite golf course. I could see the family, assuming they're tired of messing with the whole deal after 15 years, just bailing for the quick cash. Either sell it or develop it themselves.

Who ever would do that would have to get used to paying armed guards 24/7 for the rest of their lives.

Bob Riebe

28th October 2009, 15:06

The truth is that the land may have more development value than as a race track - see "Ontario Motor Speedway" and "Riverside International Raceway". This is especually true now that land values are depressed and may have a higher future value after 2013 when the economy takes off again.
Neither Riverside nor Ontario are even near the same league as the IMS in any form; in reality that is comparing apples and oranges.
Give me one reason people would want to live in Indianapolis without the speedway and its fabled history?

SarahFan

28th October 2009, 15:45

Neither Riverside nor Ontario are even near the same league as the IMS in any form; in reality that is comparing apples and oranges.
Give me one reason people would want to live in Indianapolis without the speedway and its fabled history?

the colts

just sayin

Blancvino

28th October 2009, 20:05

Give me one reason people would want to live in Indianapolis without the speedway and its fabled history?

Work, family, friends, Broad Ripple Brew Pub, Slippery Noodle, Bagel Fair ... that's 6, do I need to go on?

So there is NO reason to live in Indianapolis without the Speedway?

Are you Meshuganah?

dataman1

28th October 2009, 20:16

The truth is that the land may have more development value than as a race track - see "Ontario Motor Speedway" and "Riverside International Raceway". This is especually true now that land values are depressed and may have a higher future value after 2013 when the economy takes off again.

You could be right however the area around IMS is depressed in housing (low income), empty business propterties or vacant parking lots. The Town of Speedway has plans to do major upgrades to 16th, Georgetown and Crawfordsville Road but all include IMS as a race track. I just can't visualize a new housing development selling there with or without a golf course. One person's viewpoint.

nigelred5

28th October 2009, 23:11

They both are lawyers and if they were directly involved they would be bound by Client/Attorney privileges, that's why I was dismissive about it at the time.

Yeah, that's like telling the biggest gossip in school, "shhh, don't tell anyone, but......"

nigelred5

28th October 2009, 23:13

the colts

just sayin

Don't get me started on the Colts and the Irsay family :angry:

gofastandwynn

29th October 2009, 06:06

Don't get me started on the Colts and the Irsay family :angry:

The Irsays are pure class. You show me another owner who would ship an NFL team using overnight delivery...

ClarkFan

1st November 2009, 04:08

Well, the sisters are wealthy because of the speedway. But their wealth is all bricks and aluminium. Common business sense says that you must spread your investments to spread the risk.
Or perhaps they don't like being in the public eyes.
I don't think there is a lot they can do with their experience in management to make IMS and the IRL more profitable. TG is the only one who has the experience and the connections (and still failed) but he is out of it.
Instead of the Speedway, the money more likely comes from Clabber Girl Baking Powder. For all the money that passes through it, the Speedway may just break even.

http://www.clabbergirl.com/consumer/products/clabber_girl/

ClarkFan

Lousada

2nd November 2009, 10:48

Instead of the Speedway, the money more likely comes from Clabber Girl Baking Powder. For all the money that passes through it, the Speedway may just break even.

http://www.clabbergirl.com/consumer/products/clabber_girl/

ClarkFan

The most optimistic estimate of Clabber Girl gives it 37.5 million annual revenue. But I have also seen figures in the 20 something. Actual profit will be just a fraction of that.