Declining driver behaviour?

[Wasted Talent]

Is it just me or is anyone else concerned about declining drivers standards?

There have been a lot of cases this year of drivers chopping others up - not the least yesterday in Brazil - Webber on Raikkonen (following his swerve into Barricello earlier this year), Kobayashi on Button, and then Kobayashi on Nakajima twice, plus can't remember who but someone made Vettel put two wheels on the grass, and even Barricello on Hamilton that ironically punctured his rear tyre.

Don't get me wrong, I am definitely not arguing for no overtaking, but when it is clear that one driver has got a good run on the driver in front who then moves across or into the overtaking driver at 160mph+ then if nothing is done someone is going to be launched - possibly into the crowd.

WT

[F1boat]

I don't think that the behaivior is declining. Drivers do not crash into each other for wins and championship, like before.

[ArrowsFA1]

What we're seeing now is the result of a number of things dating back some time.

If racers chopped, blocked, or drove someone of the road in the 50's it was likely to lead to serious injury or even death. The concept of a "run-off" area didn't exist. There were trees and buildings lining the circuits. That generated a certain respect among competitiors; respect for each others safety. That's not to say they didn't race hard.

Advances in safety were designed to save lives in the event of an accident, but over time, as the cars and circuits have become even safer, the life endangering consequences of an accident have lessened. That is a good thing, but perhaps it has allowed drivers to take greater risks, or rather have less respect for their competitors.

Nowhere was that illustrated better than at the 1990 Japanese GP when Ayrton Senna deliberately took out Alain Prost at the first corner of the race. That was bad enough, but the fact that his actions went unpunished made it far worse. Had FISA taken action then, we may not have seen what followed.

We have seen many incidents of swerving, chopping, blocking and driving into an opponent since 1990 with a varied degree of punishments being applied by the FIA. The governing body has been remarkably inconsistent.

There was a time when "rookies" would have had a talking to by more senior drivers. In most cases that would have been enough, but now the FIA have seen fit to introduce so many different rules governing what drivers can and can't do that every little incident has to be dealt with by the stewards.

One example of the consequences of this is the white line marking the exit of the pit lane onto the circuit. Why is it needed? Are the drivers incapable of knowing where the pit exit is? Shouldn't they be aware of what's around them when exiting the pits, and approaching the pit exit at racing speed? Decision making has been taken away from them. They don't have to concern themselves with consequences as there's a rule covering the pit exit.

Another consequnce of all of this is it drips down through the ranks. The old Ford addage of 'race on Sunday, sell on Monday' applies. What you see in a GP gets repeated on kart tracks around the world and a certain level of behaviour becomes acceptable.

[Sonic]

I agree with almost all of your post Arrows. We can't blame todays drivers for their style when for the last 20+ years it has become the norm.

However having spent 6 hours watching Honda cadets yesterday I can honestly say from front to the back of the field I saw not a single incident of "dirty" driving. I would suggest its formula ford/bmw etc where this sort of stuff takes root. As I've said before I belive acceptable driving is to lean on another car as far as the white line but if it requires the other driver to leave the circuit that's a step too far.

[ioan]

I don't think that the behaivior is declining. Drivers do not crash into each other for wins and championship, like before.

You're right, nowadays they crash into each other because of lack of talent.

[Big Ben]

here we go again with the freakin' good old days... come on old boys... let it go

[wedge]

If racers chopped, blocked, or drove someone of the road in the 50's it was likely to lead to serious injury or even death. The concept of a "run-off" area didn't exist. There were trees and buildings lining the circuits. That generated a certain respect among competitiors; respect for each others safety. That's not to say they didn't race hard.

Giuseppe Farina was considered a very dirty racer, Moss said he was the hardest racer he raced against. Farina lived to tell the tale after his racing days were over.

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle, the best drivers, competitive and racing on the limit - on the knife edge of danger. Racing is dangerous sport.

'Here you go, after you' does not make good spectacle and should be left to Caterham racers et al who are there to enjoy themselves.

[ClarkFan]

I agree with almost all of your post Arrows. We can't blame todays drivers for their style when for the last 20+ years it has become the norm.

However having spent 6 hours watching Honda cadets yesterday I can honestly say from front to the back of the field I saw not a single incident of "dirty" driving. I would suggest its formula ford/bmw etc where this sort of stuff takes root. As I've said before I belive acceptable driving is to lean on another car as far as the white line but if it requires the other driver to leave the circuit that's a step too far.

I think that your comment raises an interesting point, as does Arrows' comment. The place to introduce better discipline and behavior is in the introductory ranks - once young drivers understand that "you don't do that" and get the habits ingrained, there should be less need to impose penalties at higher levels. The problem with trying to introduce better behavior at the F1 level is that the stewards may be (rightly) reluctant to throw over a World Championship race or campaign with a penalty.

And Wedge, there is a difference between being hard to pass and swerving into another car. Jack Brabham had a reputation for having cars with "infinitely extensible wheels" but never got Farina's bad reputation. As with anything, there is a difference between art and brute force.

Stripping Senna of the 1990 World Championship for his blatant bad behavior would have been a usefull corrective measure. But it is too late now to undo that mistake or the others that followed. The only real answer is to do better in the future.

ClarkFan

[wedge]

I think that your comment raises an interesting point, as does Arrows' comment. The place to introduce better discipline and behavior is in the introductory ranks - once young drivers understand that "you don't do that" and get the habits ingrained, there should be less need to impose penalties at higher levels. The problem with trying to introduce better behavior at the F1 level is that the stewards may be (rightly) reluctant to throw over a World Championship race or campaign with a penalty.

And Wedge, there is a difference between being hard to pass and swerving into another car. Jack Brabham had a reputation for having cars with "infinitely extensible wheels" but never got Farina's bad reputation. As with anything, there is a difference between art and brute force.

Stripping Senna of the 1990 World Championship for his blatant bad behavior would have been a usefull corrective measure. But it is too late now to undo that mistake or the others that followed. The only real answer is to do better in the future.

ClarkFan

Where do you draw the line?

That's why we have the one blocking manoeuvre rule and even that seems not enough.

[ArrowsFA1]

Where do you draw the line?

That's why we have the one blocking manoeuvre rule and even that seems not enough.
For me that's another rule too much. Too many lines drawn! Maybe racing standards have declined as safety has improved, and in response the FIA have felt it necessary to rule on every incident, which in turn means drivers look to the FIA to sort things out more and more.

IMHO the drivers should be more proactive in sorting these things out themselves. Most know what's unacceptable and what isn't, and if they're unsure then they have the GPDA.

However having spent 6 hours watching Honda cadets yesterday I can honestly say from front to the back of the field I saw not a single incident of "dirty" driving. I would suggest its formula ford/bmw etc where this sort of stuff takes root.
You may be right. Some single seater racing does sometimes seem to be a live version of online racing games where brakes aren't often used and the racing line is an irrelevance :eek: :p

[UltimateDanGTR]

I agree with arrows.

one must feel we need to instigate more about chopping and blocking in junior ranks, this was we should seep out stupid dirtty moves and we can have cleaner racing. im all for defensive driving but some things ive seen this year in particular have been well, unacceptable. (The vet at monza, kobbi on naka at sao paulo etc)

Maybe we could just leave the chopping to Matt Neal in BTCC..............