The Strengths and Weaknesses Thread

[woody2goody]

Keyzersoze made a post about Button that got me thinking:

What do the esteemed forum members think are the strengths and weaknesses of the 20 men currently on the Formula One grid???

I'll start:

Hamilton: Strengths: Blistering Raw Pace, Great Performer over a race weekend, excellent in the wet, great fitness. Weaknesses: Persistent locking of the brakes, sometimes gets a bit rash on the track.

Kovalainen: S: Great qualifying pace, tries hard, makes fewer mistakes than LH W: Race pace can't match Hamilton's, never seems to get the most out of the car over a weekend.

Raikkonen: S: Possibly the fastest guy over one lap on the grid, fearless. W: Sometimes loses interest in races, slow starter to the season.

Fisichella: S: Can make a mediocre car look great, makes few mistakes. W: Sensitive to changes around him, sometimes struggles in qualifying

Heidfeld: S: Virtually mistake-free, Great passer, Excellent race craft W: Lacks blistering raw pace, sometimes isn't ruthless enough, too easy on the tyres :O

Kubica: S: Very talented, good qualifier. W: A known complainer, possibly a tad overrated, doesn't always race that well.

Alonso: S: Consistent, aggressive, great overtaking, extremely intelligent, Championship winning experience, always gets the best out of a car. W: Doesn't like having strong teammates.

Grosjean: S: Good natural talent, adapts well to new situations. W: Seemingly error and crash-prone.

Vettel: S: Great front-runner, great intelligence for his age, unlimited potential, usually gets the best out of the car. W: Quite mistake-prone.

Webber: S: Great qualifier, hard worker, very consistent in races, never gives up. W: Maybe lacks raw pace to be a top driver in F1.

Trulli: S: Fantastic qualifier, veteran knowledge, great fitness. W: Sometimes slow in races, not great in the wet, lacks self-confidence.

Glock: S: Hard worker, Good racer. W: Never seems to push the car to it's limits.

Alguersuari: S: Good potential, impressive consistency for his experience level. W: Inexperienced.

Buemi: S: Excellent potential, very quick at times. W: Makes too many mistakes.

Sutil: S: Great in the wet. W: Accident-prone, doesn't get the most out of the car in the dry.

Liuzzi: S: Consistent, Quick, proven winner in junior series'. W: Not raced for a while in F1, and not always got the most out of the package given to him.

Button: S: Extremely smooth, great fitness, great on a damp/drying track, good overtaking ability. W: Doesn't get the most out of a bad car, sometimes doesn't have the aggression needed, questionable set-up ability.

Barrichello: S: Veteran, Consistent, hard working, wet weather specialist. W: Sometimes lets emotion get the better of him, sometimes struggles when car isn't perfect.

Rosberg: S: Extremely intelligent, good qualifier, consistent. W: Struggles in the wet sometimes, unsure about his race craft.

Nakajima: S: Good talent, decent potential, consistent driver. W: Mediocre qualifier, not aggressive with his opponents, goes missing in races.

What does everyone think the strengths and weaknesses are of the current F1 crop?

[Roamy]

no sense in re-writing the book so I will just agree with YoU!

[Sonic]

I'm with Fousto. You've kinda covered everybody quite well.

The list does point towards Alonso being "the best" as his stated weakness could be viewed as a strength (a la Shumi).

[F1boat]

Keyzersoze made a post about Button that got me thinking:

What do the esteemed forum members think are the strengths and weaknesses of the 20 men currently on the Formula One grid???

I'll start:

Hamilton: Strengths: Blistering Raw Pace, Great Performer over a race weekend, excellent in the wet, great fitness. Weaknesses: Persistent locking of the brakes, sometimes gets a bit rash on the track.

Kovalainen: S: Great qualifying pace, tries hard, makes fewer mistakes than LH W: Race pace can't match Hamilton's, never seems to get the most out of the car over a weekend.

Raikkonen: S: Possibly the fastest guy over one lap on the grid, fearless. W: Sometimes loses interest in races, slow starter to the season.

Fisichella: S: Can make a mediocre car look great, makes few mistakes. W: Sensitive to changes around him, sometimes struggles in qualifying

Heidfeld: S: Virtually mistake-free, Great passer, Excellent race craft W: Lacks blistering raw pace, sometimes isn't ruthless enough, too easy on the tyres :O

Kubica: S: Very talented, good qualifier. W: A known complainer, possibly a tad overrated, doesn't always race that well.

Alonso: S: Consistent, aggressive, great overtaking, extremely intelligent, Championship winning experience, always gets the best out of a car. W: Doesn't like having strong teammates.

Grosjean: S: Good natural talent, adapts well to new situations. W: Seemingly error and crash-prone.

Vettel: S: Great front-runner, great intelligence for his age, unlimited potential, usually gets the best out of the car. W: Quite mistake-prone.

Webber: S: Great qualifier, hard worker, very consistent in races, never gives up. W: Maybe lacks raw pace to be a top driver in F1.

Trulli: S: Fantastic qualifier, veteran knowledge, great fitness. W: Sometimes slow in races, not great in the wet, lacks self-confidence.

Glock: S: Hard worker, Good racer. W: Never seems to push the car to it's limits.

Alguersuari: S: Good potential, impressive consistency for his experience level. W: Inexperienced.

Buemi: S: Excellent potential, very quick at times. W: Makes too many mistakes.

Sutil: S: Great in the wet. W: Accident-prone, doesn't get the most out of the car in the dry.

Liuzzi: S: Consistent, Quick, proven winner in junior series'. W: Not raced for a while in F1, and not always got the most out of the package given to him.

Button: S: Extremely smooth, great fitness, great on a damp/drying track, good overtaking ability. W: Doesn't get the most out of a bad car, sometimes doesn't have the aggression needed, questionable set-up ability.

Barrichello: S: Veteran, Consistent, hard working, wet weather specialist. W: Sometimes lets emotion get the better of him, sometimes struggles when car isn't perfect.

Rosberg: S: Extremely intelligent, good qualifier, consistent. W: Struggles in the wet sometimes, unsure about his race craft.

Nakajima: S: Good talent, decent potential, consistent driver. W: Mediocre qualifier, not aggressive with his opponents, goes missing in races.

What does everyone think the strengths and weaknesses are of the current F1 crop?

Your list is great.

[Big Ben]

I agree. he didn't left too much space for comments, did he? :laugh: . I would only add that I think they all struggle with a bad car.

[Big Ben]

You are an awful thread starter woody. You should be a bit more vague so we could have opportunities to start fighting :laugh: .... just kidding

[wedge]

Hamilton: Strengths: Blistering Raw Pace, Great Performer over a race weekend, excellent in the wet, great fitness. Weaknesses: Persistent locking of the brakes, sometimes gets a bit rash on the track.


The brake locking thing, that's part of his driving style and natural talent.

If you remember Brazil GP all weekend he kept locking the wheels in a McLaren with the wrong package ie. low downforce but got away with damaging his wheels time and again.

Yes it does look worrying on the outside and the textbook approach AKA JYS lecture is to be smooth but Hamilton is of the very few like Schumi, Senna et al who drive aggressively and get away with it because of their fantastic feel of the car on the limit.

BTW, you obviously have too much time on your hands to analyse all the drivers!

[keysersoze]

I have no proof other than observing their respective careers, but it seems like Alonso and Barrichello are the most technically gifted of the bunch, with Fisi a bit behind these two.

Having said that, I'm not by any means saying that the rest of them fly by the seat of their pants.

I recall Glock used to spin a LOT. At a recent Monaco he spun about four times.

Where's Massa? I guess since he's not "current" you left him off. Anyway, I think he's very good all-around, and clearly benefited under Schumacher's tutelage. He looked totally inept in the wet at Silverstone last year. Early in his career (while at Sauber), he made some stunning passes while generally starting near the back. Now, he's an exceptional front-runner, but tends to struggle if he starts mid-pack, whereas his teammate has shown he can rocket up the order.

[ioan]

Now, he's an exceptional front-runner, but tends to struggle if he starts mid-pack, whereas his teammate has shown he can rocket up the order.

Not in the same car, or did I miss Kimi storm from the back to the front o the grid in a Ferrari?
Also you should remember that Felipe did do well from the back of the grid too on quite a few occasions (Malaysia 2006, Silverstone 2007, Silverstone 2009, China 2009 where he went near the back of the grid to 3rd in the wet, and there were other such occasions).

[Wasted Talent]

Why is Alonso rated so highly? Couldn't cope at all with a rookie Hamilton....

Okay Lewis is McLaren's child, but Alonso was no faster

WT

[I am evil Homer]

Alonso can be highly rated as can Hamilton. It's clear Lewis is a huge talent so to somehow then equate a 2x WDC as not good because another good driver equalled his points over a season is an illogical argument.

[DexDexter]

Alonso: S: Consistent, aggressive, great overtaking, extremely intelligent, Championship winning experience, always gets the best out of a car. W: Doesn't like having strong teammates.

Alguersuari: S: Good potential, impressive consistency for his experience level. W: Inexperienced.



Good list although there are a couple of things I disagree with.

Alonso doesn't always get the best out of a car, since in 2007 he was clearly outdriven by Hamilton at some races in a similar car

Where is Alguersuari's potential? Haven't seen any, except holding guys up in Singapore. His experience level is no excuse, after all guys like Kimi had even less experience when they started.

[wedge]

Why is Alonso rated so highly? Couldn't cope at all with a rookie Hamilton....

Okay Lewis is McLaren's child, but Alonso was no faster

WT

Alonso beat Schumi in an inferior car at Imola 2005 and Turkey 2006, so yes Alonso is a crap and over rated.

Alonso and Hamilton were about equal.

You have to remember that in 2007 Kimi, Alonso and even Kubica were having to adapt their driving styles to suit the Bridgestone tyres - extracting the extra couple of tenths, not half a second. Hamilton had no point of reference regarding tyres.

[jens]

A long nice post woody2goody, so I'm not going to waste time on writing another analysis at the moment. Just one thing if I'm going to let my fanboysm (sp?) in: Trulli is the fastest guy over one lap, not Räikkönen. :D

And an answer to DexDexter: I actually hunch that Alguersuari has a fair bit unlocked potential, which hasn't been unveiled due to his youth and inexperience both in open-wheel racing and F1 cars. For the first time in his F1 career he was finally having a promising race at Suzuka - I saw him running as high as 10th behind Barrichello somewhere in the middle of the race. And he already seems more mature than for instance Grosjean despite being only 19 years old (Romain is "already" 23). I wouldn't be surprised to see Algu beating Buemi next year. And if you are comparing him to Kimi's inexperience level, then I've to mention he had the whole winter testing session to prepare for the 2001 debut season.

[DexDexter]

A
And if you are comparing him to Kimi's inexperience level, then I've to mention he had the whole winter testing session to prepare for the 2001 debut season.

What about Schumacher or Häkkinen 1991? They had very little time in a car and were fast immediately. Maybe the guy will surprise but I he has to start showing it pretty soon.

[keysersoze]

Wow, Jarno looked quite competent in the wet today. Qualifying vs racing may be an entirely different matter, but good on him.

Fisi? tsk tsk

Buemi did his prospects no disservice today, and neither did Adrian!

[jens]

What about Schumacher or Häkkinen 1991? They had very little time in a car and were fast immediately. Maybe the guy will surprise but I he has to start showing it pretty soon.

Yes, 2010 will be a decisive year for Jaime. He may not be as good as Michael and Mika to impress straightaway, but may still develop into an acceptable driver. Still think that age and "general life-experience" plays some role here too. I feel everything has arrived too quickly for Algu. Michael and Mika were both 22 years old, when they made their debut and were maybe also mentally better-prepared for such challenge.

[woody2goody]

Right I'll try to cover the main points raised:

(PS sorry I put so much in the thread to begin with, the bickering would have been fun :D )

I was thinking what Jens said about Alguersuari before I read his post. He's risen through the ranks very quickly and looked very solid in lower formulae. Maybe not the fastest guy out there, but one of the more consistent, at least when I watched him in World Series.

Massa's only real weakness now (as he's stopped crashing a lot as he did in 2002) is, as was mentioned, his inability (seemingly) to be able to fight through the field like Button and Vettel did today. His chequered flag waving counts as a strength in my book :)

Alonso in 2007 was rarely outpaced by Hamilton, and despite the final points totals, I still maintain Fred was usually the faster driver that season. He crashed at Fuji and had a couple of other DNFs which hurt him. Plus he had tyre issues in Bahrain and Canada which dropped him down the order.

Grosjean can be fast, but seems very inconsistent to me, at least from the first few races he's done in F1, I know he crashed a lot in GP2 as well which probably prevented him from winning the title in the end.

Buemi's raw speed has impressed me. I know he has an inexperienced team-mate now, but he matched Bourdais for pace usually in his first season. He drove very well today. He may have learned something from Suzuka. That's also I think his first points since his debut in Melbourne.

[woody2goody]

Yes, 2010 will be a decisive year for Jaime. He may not be as good as Michael and Mika to impress straightaway, but may still develop into an acceptable driver. Still think that age and "general life-experience" plays some role here too. I feel everything has arrived too quickly for Algu. Michael and Mika were both 22 years old, when they made their debut and were maybe also mentally better-prepared for such challenge.

Adding to the fact Schumacher had done Le Mans and the FIA GTs I think. An event as gruelling as the 24 heures du Mans will really help in developing the mental aspect.

[wedge]

Massa's only real weakness now (as he's stopped crashing a lot as he did in 2002) is, as was mentioned, his inability (seemingly) to be able to fight through the field like Button and Vettel did today. His chequered flag waving counts as a strength in my book

Last year overtook Hamilton on the outside of the first corner at Hungary, and passed Webber at pit exit at Fuji

This year he held off Vettel for much of the race bar faulty fuel reading in Spain. Started 8th and finished on the podium at Nurburgring.

Massa can step up to the plate with killer instinct.

[christophulus]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/10/19/brazilian-grand-prix-fastest-laps-analysis/

Very interesting chart showing the fastest laps, but more importantly the most consistent drivers in the Brazilian GP.

The Red Bulls were clearly the fastest over one lap but neither driver was consistently fast - Vettel being stuck in traffic probably didn't help. However, is that because Vettel can't overtake as well as Button/Hamilton etc? We saw it in Turkey too, so I'd add that to Vettel's weaknesses (or the Red Bull car) - it's probably cost him a decent shot at the championship.

The most consistent drivers were Kubica, Button, and.... Buemi. 69% of his laps were within 1% of his fastest lap time, which explains his excellent points finish.

[keysersoze]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/10/19/brazilian-grand-prix-fastest-laps-analysis/

Very interesting chart showing the fastest laps, but more importantly the most consistent drivers in the Brazilian GP.

The Red Bulls were clearly the fastest over one lap but neither driver was consistently fast - Vettel being stuck in traffic probably didn't help. However, is that because Vettel can't overtake as well as Button/Hamilton etc? We saw it in Turkey too, so I'd add that to Vettel's weaknesses (or the Red Bull car) - it's probably cost him a decent shot at the championship.

The most consistent drivers were Kubica, Button, and.... Buemi. 69% of his laps were within 1% of his fastest lap time, which explains his excellent points finish.

Very interesting charts, there. I suppose fuel strategy plays a significant role in the % of laps near your best.

[AndyL]

Very interesting charts, there. I suppose fuel strategy plays a significant role in the % of laps near your best.

Traffic and race position too. Who knows how many more fast laps Webber would have done if he'd had to towards the end. And maybe Hamilton would have taken it a bit easier if he hadn't been chasing down Rubens.
But yes, interesting charts nevertheless. There is similar analysis for previous races on visionf1.com.

[woody2goody]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/10/19/brazilian-grand-prix-fastest-laps-analysis/

Very interesting chart showing the fastest laps, but more importantly the most consistent drivers in the Brazilian GP.

The Red Bulls were clearly the fastest over one lap but neither driver was consistently fast - Vettel being stuck in traffic probably didn't help. However, is that because Vettel can't overtake as well as Button/Hamilton etc? We saw it in Turkey too, so I'd add that to Vettel's weaknesses (or the Red Bull car) - it's probably cost him a decent shot at the championship.

The most consistent drivers were Kubica, Button, and.... Buemi. 69% of his laps were within 1% of his fastest lap time, which explains his excellent points finish.

Raikkonen and Kobayashi managed just under 50% too, good performances from them.

I think Buemi's consistency stemmed from the fact that he was on his own for nearly the whole race.