Massa: Alonso knew about race fixing

[Garry Walker]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79435


"It was the team and Nelson - but Alonso was part of the problem. He knew. We can not know it [but] of course he knew. [It's an] absolute certainty."

Come on, Felipe. Tell it like it is :D

Next year will be fun, I cannot wait for Alonso and Massa relationship to boil over and Alonso totally humiliate himself again.

[harsha]

whine whine whine :rolleyes:

[ArrowsFA1]

It seems a rather pointless thing for Massa to raise again. He's already claimed that the "fix" cost him the WDC, and he now seems keen on blaming his new team mate as well :dozey:

[BDunnell]

How heroic of him to come out with this now, when an end has effectively been put to the matter.

By the way, I find it rather odd that Barrichello's spiritual side has had nothing to say on the various 'cheating/fixing' scandals to have engulfed the sport of late. Or is it only accidents involving drivers being hit on the head that God causes to happen in quick succession?

[harsha]

at the risk of repeating myself which I have done in some previous thread,isn't Massa conveniently forgetting the points he "won" at Spa...

funny how people twist things around to suit themselves

[Hondo]

How heroic of him to come out with this now, when an end has effectively been put to the matter.

By the way, I find it rather odd that Barrichello's spiritual side has had nothing to say on the various 'cheating/fixing' scandals to have engulfed the sport of late. Or is it only accidents involving drivers being hit on the head that God causes to happen in quick succession?

The time is right for you to begin approaching some of these F1 drivers about ghost writing their books for them.

[wedge]

Next year will be fun, I cannot wait for Alonso and Massa relationship to boil over and Alonso totally humiliate himself again.

I would love to see the look on your face if the opposite was to be true! :D

[SGWilko]

How heroic of him to come out with this now, when an end has effectively been put to the matter.


An end was put to the spygate affair, but rarely a day goes by without it being brunged up on 'ere.....

[Kevincal]

Me thinks Massa may know something we don't, like that he won't be a # 1 or 2 at Ferrari next year. Can you say Alonso and Schumacher? :D I just think Felipe is bitter because of his freak injury and the freak finish to the championship last year. Can't blame him, but at the same time there is no way of him knowing if Alonso knew or not. I highly doubt Alonso would orchestrate something like what happened. I'm sure it was 100% Briatore. Alonso had already won 2 WDC, it's not like he was desperate for anything... Also Alonso is known to speak his mind and be very open and honest. Sorry but there's no way he would cheat like this. He doesn't need cheap wins when he's already beaten one of the best in Schumacher, fair and square.

[Malbec]

Can't blame him, but at the same time there is no way of him knowing if Alonso knew or not. I highly doubt Alonso would orchestrate something like what happened. I'm sure it was 100% Briatore. Alonso had already won 2 WDC, it's not like he was desperate for anything... Also Alonso is known to speak his mind and be very open and honest. Sorry but there's no way he would cheat like this. He doesn't need cheap wins when he's already beaten one of the best in Schumacher, fair and square.

I'm pretty certain Alonso knew about the plan, after all he was the one who had to put up with a strategy that on the face of it (with a ridiculously short first stint) had no chance of working unless something happened at exactly the right time. He or his engineer would have needed something serious to convince them that that strategy was the right place to go and not the conventional ultra-long first stint which is the norm when someone quick starts at the back.

Whilst I like Alonso he's been in the periphery of too many scandals for him to be regarded as clean.....

[Koz]

Massa baby stay cool!

Massa just does not want to become another Rubens and this is after all where he's headed.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jNdy2hSmG4AFR1UjuyCdO7Ibu4MA

If it were a hunch, I can feel 2007 coming up.

[AndyL]

I'm pretty certain Alonso knew about the plan, after all he was the one who had to put up with a strategy that on the face of it (with a ridiculously short first stint) had no chance of working unless something happened at exactly the right time. He or his engineer would have needed something serious to convince them that that strategy was the right place to go and not the conventional ultra-long first stint which is the norm when someone quick starts at the back.

Whilst I like Alonso he's been in the periphery of too many scandals for him to be regarded as clean.....

Wasn't there evidence in the radio transcripts that Alonso's engineer didn't know about it? ISTR that he questioned the wisdom of the very short fuel strategy and was told by Pat Symonds something along the lines of "don't worry it'll be fine." If Alonso's engineer was in the dark then I think that's a pointer towards Alonso not knowing either.

[winer]

Wasn't there evidence in the radio transcripts that Alonso's engineer didn't know about it? ISTR that he questioned the wisdom of the very short fuel strategy and was told by Pat Symonds something along the lines of "don't worry it'll be fine." If Alonso's engineer was in the dark then I think that's a pointer towards Alonso not knowing either.

Alonso and his engineer may not have known about the plan during the race, but he almost certainly learned about it after the race. There would have been comments made within the team after the race, that would have told him what had gone on. As close knit as the teams are, it would have been impossible for him not to learn about it. And Alonso still kept quiet about it and accepted the benefit that came with it.

[CNR]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/15/massa-charges-that-alonso-knew-about-piquet-crash-plan/
who knows what question was asked and how it was asked


Speaking with a group of journalists in his native Brazil where the F1 circus is preparing for this weekend's grand prix, Felipe Massa said with "absolute certainty" that Alonso knew about the plan to have wingman Nelson Piquet crash to hand him the controversial victory


Afterwards, level-headed, he wanted to be more specific via the Ferrari website. "What I've said is the outcome of a hunch I've had and is not based on any concrete evidence," Felipe said. "The FIA World Council announced that there was no indication that Fernando may have been informed of what had happened and I respect this outcome.

alonso = cheat by association
(spygate crashgate)

[AndyL]

Alonso and his engineer may not have known about the plan during the race, but he almost certainly learned about it after the race. There would have been comments made within the team after the race, that would have told him what had gone on. As close knit as the teams are, it would have been impossible for him not to learn about it. And Alonso still kept quiet about it and accepted the benefit that came with it.

Yes, you could well be right.

[Saint Devote]

Who CARES what Massa says now?

He lost the championship to Lewis and is tryiing to undermine that. He is attempting to sully the reputation of Alonso.

Massa is a driver that next year at Ferrari knows he will be the very definite second driver. He will never be in a position to win the championship again and understands that his time at the top is essentially over.

By the end of 2010 he is likely to be out of a top team and on his way out of f1.

2012 Massa signs for Chip Ganassi in Indycars! LOL!!!

[woody2goody]

You don't think this latest string of outspoken comments is anything to do with the after-effects of his accident do you?

I mean he did have brain surgery, and was hit on the head very hard.

As far as I know he never used to talk about stuff like this before.

[woody2goody]

Who CARES what Massa says now?

He lost the championship to Lewis and is tryiing to undermine that. He is attempting to sully the reputation of Alonso.

Massa is a driver that next year at Ferrari knows he will be the very definite second driver. He will never be in a position to win the championship again and understands that his time at the top is essentially over.

By the end of 2010 he is likely to be out of a top team and on his way out of f1.

2012 Massa signs for Chip Ganassi in Indycars! LOL!!!

Nonsense. A fully fit Massa is a match for Alonso.

[keysersoze]

I have a ton of respect for Alonso as a driver--he's the most complete there is after Schumacher. But . . .

After his alleged whining about Fisi's pace back in the day I thought, "Eh, so what, he's clearly faster than GF most of the time. It's probably just the Fisichella apologists."

After his short, problematic tenure with McLaren--his issues with Hamilton and his part in Spygate, I thought, "Well, maybe it was not the best situation to be in. McLaren obviously prefer Hamilton."

But after Crash-gate, I'm almost done being a fan of his. I really think Piquet, Sr. gave a cogent explanation of FA's Singapore strategy. It just didn't make sense and I tend to believe an intelligent driver like Fernando HAD to know something.

[woody2goody]

I have a ton of respect for Alonso as a driver--he's the most complete there is after Schumacher. But . . .

After his alleged whining about Fisi's pace back in the day I thought, "Eh, so what, he's clearly faster than GF most of the time. It's probably just the Fisichella apologists."

After his short, problematic tenure with McLaren--his issues with Hamilton and his part in Spygate, I thought, "Well, maybe it was not the best situation to be in. McLaren obviously prefer Hamilton."

But after Crash-gate, I'm almost done being a fan of his. I really think Piquet, Sr. gave a cogent explanation of FA's Singapore strategy. It just didn't make sense and I tend to believe an intelligent driver like Fernando HAD to know something.

I thought that when the rumours came out.

Alonso is smart, and it's almost impossible that there was a strategy tailored around him winning the race and he knew nothing about it.

We'll just have to see what happens at Ferrari, but it won't be good judging by this so far lol.

[Hondo]

I still have problems with calling it "race fixing". To me, race fixing is something that guarantees a definite result. An example would be a driver being told to let his teammate or another driver by in the last 1 or 2 laps of the race. Nelson hitting the wall may have given Alonso an immediate advantage but there was still a whole lot of race still to go and all sorts of things might have happened to negate that advantage. Other than that, it would seem the team finally found something Nelson could do right, that would help the team.

[Saint Devote]

I have a ton of respect for Alonso as a driver--he's the most complete there is after Schumacher. But . . .

After his alleged whining about Fisi's pace back in the day I thought, "Eh, so what, he's clearly faster than GF most of the time. It's probably just the Fisichella apologists."

After his short, problematic tenure with McLaren--his issues with Hamilton and his part in Spygate, I thought, "Well, maybe it was not the best situation to be in. McLaren obviously prefer Hamilton."

But after Crash-gate, I'm almost done being a fan of his. I really think Piquet, Sr. gave a cogent explanation of FA's Singapore strategy. It just didn't make sense and I tend to believe an intelligent driver like Fernando HAD to know something.

Well then how much respect can you have for Schumacher and Ferrari?

Deliberately used his car as a weapon against Hill [a man that his father would be proud of and always has represented the virtues of his nation] in 1996, then was thrown out of the 1997 championship for trying the same disgraceful stunt on Villeneuve, then tried to pull a trick at Monte Carlo by parking his car at the Rascasse.

Not to forget being part of the Ferrari team which in all likelihood with its secret influence on the well of corruption, the FIA, motivated the ban of the Renault front wing in 2006 in order to try and manipulate their way to a Schumacher championship.

So you also recall his dirty driving as he actually brake tested his own brother?! And his emphatic rule at Ferrari that never saw another acknowledged top driver given a drive and requiring the second driver to always step aside for Schumacher. This man does not deserve to be placed in the ratings alongside a driver such as Jim Clark or Fangio for example.

And he wants everyone to believe that he selflessly gave up his seat for Massa?! Baloney! Schumacher, just like Alonso is a political animal but Hamilton to Alonso's frustration was umoved.

And more recently he used the neck excuse to get out of driving against the best drivers of 2009.

I do not think Schumacher or Ferrari acted with integrity or honesty - and when did they make the dark turn?. Together they became corrupt and viewed their position as right and not privilege. And that still lingers.

And speculating whether Alonso knew or did not is mild by comparison.

And then Briatore and Symonds are punished without a trial while Ferrari always goes free. No wonder the encumbent powers want Todt to win rather than Vatanen on Oct 23.

It remains to be seen how Alonso will direct himself at Ferrari. The machiavellian playbook is available at Ferrari - time will tell.

[Malbec]

Well then how much respect can you have for Schumacher and Ferrari?

Deliberately used his car as a weapon against Hill [a man that his father would be proud of and always has represented the virtues of his nation] in 1996, then was thrown out of the 1997 championship for trying the same disgraceful stunt on Villeneuve, then tried to pull a trick at Monte Carlo by parking his car at the Rascasse.

Not to forget being part of the Ferrari team which in all likelihood with its secret influence on the well of corruption, the FIA, motivated the ban of the Renault front wing in 2006 in order to try and manipulate their way to a Schumacher championship.

So you also recall his dirty driving as he actually brake tested his own brother?! And his emphatic rule at Ferrari that never saw another acknowledged top driver given a drive and requiring the second driver to always step aside for Schumacher. This man does not deserve to be placed in the ratings alongside a driver such as Jim Clark or Fangio for example.

And he wants everyone to believe that he selflessly gave up his seat for Massa?! Baloney! Schumacher, just like Alonso is a political animal but Hamilton to Alonso's frustration was umoved.

And more recently he used the neck excuse to get out of driving against the best drivers of 2009.

I do not think Schumacher or Ferrari acted with integrity or honesty - and when did they make the dark turn?. Together they became corrupt and viewed their position as right and not privilege. And that still lingers.

And speculating whether Alonso knew or did not is mild by comparison.

And then Briatore and Symonds are punished without a trial while Ferrari always goes free. No wonder the encumbent powers want Todt to win rather than Vatanen on Oct 23.

It remains to be seen how Alonso will direct himself at Ferrari. The machiavellian playbook is available at Ferrari - time will tell.

Whether one respects or disrespects Alonso is totally independent from whether one respects Schumacher. Just because one doesn't respect MS is not reason to respect Alonso is it now.

[Valve Bounce]

It remains to be announced whether Massa also knew about the race fixing and preferred to keep his big mouth shut. Now there's a thought!!

[Big Ben]

Didn't care much for the guy but I have huge respect for the way he improved himself during recent years... however he's a sore loser and embarrasses himself a lot with all these useless statements... I agree with whoever said he feels now that last year was probably his last big chance to win the wdc.

[keysersoze]

Well then how much respect can you have for Schumacher and Ferrari?


I never said I respected Schumacher--just said he was the most complete driver. I'll go even further by saying IMO he's the greatest F1 driver of all time.

But I recognize his Machiavellian nature.

[F1boat]

Felipe is starting to annoy me. He lost the championship because of many things, but the crashgate is not among them. Renault had nothing to do with the idiotic mechanic. Nor with his mistake in Malaysia. Nor with the blown engine in Hungary, I even may say that he stayed in the WDC cause Max decided to guarantee a "dramatic" finish to the season after Spa.
He is trying to annoy Alonso, but I think that the Spanish driver will manage to defeat him. I hope so!

[ioan]

I do agree with Massa about Alonso knowing, but can't quite see why he is mentioning this in an interview about his future team mate. He is obviously pinning this single episode on the reason he lost the WDC last year, which is a little misguided. If it makes him feel better then great, but its less than constructive IMO.. :)

Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he?
And why is it misguided?

[ioan]

Felipe is starting to annoy me. He lost the championship because of many things, but the crashgate is not among them.

Talk about living in another world.
You're not one of those who think that Alonso is perfect are you?! :D

[ioan]

I never said I respected Schumacher--just said he was the most complete driver. I'll go even further by saying IMO he's the greatest F1 driver of all time.

But I recognize his Machiavellian nature.

Cheers to that!

[Big Ben]

Who cares if it's constructive or not. He's not out there to help a thief, is he?
And why is it misguided?

He did it once, he can do it again.

[wedge]

And speculating whether Alonso knew or did not is mild by comparison.

Industrial espionage, blackmailing his own employer, Alonso should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize

[F1boat]

Talk about living in another world.
You're not one of those who think that Alonso is perfect are you?! :D

No, relax :) I think that he is the best driver in the current F1, but he is not perfect.

[Cooper_S]

LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums...

Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC...

Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate...

Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC...

These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of.

[UltimateDanGTR]

LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums...

Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC...

Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate...

Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC...

These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of.

nice to know ;)

[BDunnell]

He's not out there to help a thief no, but he is required to be a professional. Judging by the damage limitation statements issued by himself and Ferrari, I fear I am not alone in questioning his original judgement.

Had it been almost anyone other than Massa making these comments, you can bet your life that ioan's opinion would be completely different to the one expressed here, so I would take his view with a pinch of salt.

[Robinho]

i wasn't sure he didn't know, but i can belive it - after having the qually oace and then the problem that dropped him down the grid the only way to exploit the pace of the car would be to go aggresive and hope for a safety car, otherwise they'd be stuck in mid field anyway so nothing really to lose - presumabley if someone else had crashed the strategy would have played out the same, and when no-one did they had to pull the pin on piquet and the rest is history.

its quite beliveable that Alonso would have acepted a super aggresive strategy designed to capitalise on a safety car period ona brand new street circuit and perhaps he would have not questioned it any further, although afterwards i expect he thought it was all rather convenient.

BTW this is just my take on one possiblility, of course he may have known all along and just stayed quiet - either seems equally beliveable IMO

[DexDexter]

Massa's comment is a recipe for disaster for Ferrari. They are supposed to work together with the team bringing a totally new car and this is how it starts. Trouble ahead. Well, the wise men at Maranello asked for this, they wanted two Latins like Alonso said and so they will face the consequences. Kimi hasn't said anything about Alonso and race fixing by the way.

[CaptainRaiden]

I don't particularly like Massa, but it's hard to believe that Alonso didn't know squat about the whole issue. Very, very hard to believe that, especially since during the spygate scandal, he was in the know about everything and discussed it via email with PDLR about the type of gas Ferrari use in their tyres and what not.

It's impossible to believe that a guy like Alonso would just go out there and race without even a word from Briatore or Symonds about the whole issue, the guys with whom he won two championships. Oh no, highly unlikely.

Like DexDexter said, good luck to Ferrari for handling two fiery latins next year.

[CNR]

LOL.......... the forum is over flowing with sour grapes lately... Massa and any other deluded persons can believe whatever they wish... it will not change a thing... Alonso will forever be not guilty of complicity in the crashgate scandal no matter how many rants are made on forums...

Rant away... Lewis is still 2009 WDC...

Rant away... Alonso is innocent in crashgate...

Rant away... Schumacher is still 7 time WDC...

These thing will never change, Massa failure was not believing what he believes but rather committing slander... that crossed the line and he was rightly reprimanded by his team and vilified by his sport.. end of.

i believe that alonso should have been striped of last years wins
i believe that alonso will cheat and blackmail to get his way
i believe that alonso will not do any better then Luca Badoer or Giancarlo Fisichella for the first 4 or so races

[ShiftingGears]

i believe that alonso will not do any better then Luca Badoer or Giancarlo Fisichella for the first 4 or so races

Someone forgot their medication.

[Robinho]

Massa and alonso will in all probability be just fine - they don't have to be best buddies, they just have to get along professionally - both know that when they drive for Ferrari one man is not bigger than the team (any more ;) ) and that if their actions mean the team doesn not fulfil their potential they'll be in trouble.

they've both been around long enough to understand how the world works, and undoubtedly the one that comes out on top will be the happier, but i thik they both have the capacity to be professional in their relationship - assuming they don't end up as good mates, which also could happen.

all of that depsite Massa's slightly controversial comments (would have been fine if it were not his new teammate) - i think Ferrari should be able to manage the 2 just fine - as long as both know the score in advance, which is where Alonso and Mclaren fell down.

Alonso has seen that Massa is quick and has been given the opportunity to race a WDC in Kimi and should have no reason to belive the same will not happen when he arrives. he will however expect to be quicker over a season, and i expect Masa will think that he will have the same chances he has had against Kimi, and that he will probably be best - they are both top experienced F1 drivers and if they don't belive they can beat everyone, inclduing their own teammate they probably shouldn't be there. if one was a rookie then it would be different.