Kahne Blasts Nascar for Phantom Debris Cautions

[harvick#1]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylt=AjGU.Uvg6o99ABidTFJHL_fov7YF?slug=ap-nascar-inthepits&prov=ap&type=lgns


finally a driver calls nascar out, these bogus cautions are killing the sport just as bad when fans know when Nascar wants to throw a caution to try and spice things up

[Steve2009]

Sucks man :(

[Mark in Oshawa]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylt=AjGU.Uvg6o99ABidTFJHL_fov7YF?slug=ap-nascar-inthepits&prov=ap&type=lgns


finally a driver calls nascar out, these bogus cautions are killing the sport just as bad when fans know when Nascar wants to throw a caution to try and spice things up

Of course, you wouldn't know this because you claim about 5 times a year to have stopped watching NASCAR.

The Bogus cautions are a black helicopter crowd staple that is just getting old. Does NASCAR through a lot of cautions? Yes..too many, I wont disagree there, but there usually is debris somewhere, and they seem to not be criticized for it by the teams. Kasey let loose because his Chase hopes just died in 2 straight wrecks caused by idiots on double file restarts, and ESPN stuck a mike in his face. Of course it isn't HIS fault...someone must be blamed.

The number of cautions also allows guys to catch up, so if you ask any of the drivers competing, they will tell you that they are the ones wrecking or not wrecking. It isn't like NASCAR tosses out a hand grenade in the pack as it speeds towards turn 1.

You have to really be smoking something to think NASCAR does it all the time to create excitement. I must admit though, I have wondered myself at times, but no one in the sport really complains in the cold light of day (not in the heat of the race, a driver could say anything at that point), so if they aint complaining, I am not complaining.

[The instant classic]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylt=AjGU.Uvg6o99ABidTFJHL_fov7YF?slug=ap-nascar-inthepits&prov=ap&type=lgns


finally a driver calls nascar out, these bogus cautions are killing the sport just as bad when fans know when Nascar wants to throw a caution to try and spice things up

Kahne bashes on Nascar for bogus yellow
and Jeff Burton bash nascar at NH for the dubble file restarts

i do fear come talladega if we see a bogus yellow under 10 laps to go, and dubble file restarts and lets the say the leader comes around with 5 laps to go some bad wrecks will happen

for myself i don't mind the bogus yellows if the leader is like 10 sec ahead and the rest of the guys are just hanging around and not trying to pass eatchother,

i know alot of times Nascar shows us the debrie and show why the yellow came out, but the times they don't show us i do question Nascar

[NickFalzone]

Of course, you wouldn't know this because you claim about 5 times a year to have stopped watching NASCAR.

The Bogus cautions are a black helicopter crowd staple that is just getting old. Does NASCAR through a lot of cautions? Yes..too many, I wont disagree there, but there usually is debris somewhere, and they seem to not be criticized for it by the teams. Kasey let loose because his Chase hopes just died in 2 straight wrecks caused by idiots on double file restarts, and ESPN stuck a mike in his face. Of course it isn't HIS fault...someone must be blamed.

The number of cautions also allows guys to catch up, so if you ask any of the drivers competing, they will tell you that they are the ones wrecking or not wrecking. It isn't like NASCAR tosses out a hand grenade in the pack as it speeds towards turn 1.

You have to really be smoking something to think NASCAR does it all the time to create excitement. I must admit though, I have wondered myself at times, but no one in the sport really complains in the cold light of day (not in the heat of the race, a driver could say anything at that point), so if they aint complaining, I am not complaining.

Mark, I think the issue is that there's judgement calls being made on what's "yellow" debris, and what's "green" debris. Because there's always a little bit of junk here and there on the track, that often gets brushed off during the racing. And the fans are to blame, throwing I believe that water bottle on the track. I think Stewart and Kahne have complained when whatever it is, a beer can, a bottle, or whatever, that if it's out of the racing line and not interfering with the racing, then maybe NASCAR should just stay green. Instead, they seem to pick and choose a good time to go yellow, and often times (though they've gotten better about it) it will be with 10-15 to go that suddenly that can near the fence needs to be picked up by the safety team.

[Mark in Oshawa]

First off Nick, I agree with you some debris should be ignored, but when something as small as a washer can cut a tire, you can see how NASCAR can justify the yellows.

Second of all, there is this myth if ESPN/ABC or FOX or whomever doesn't show the debris, than it is a phantom caution. That is false. The director shows the story he wants to show. If there is something going on beyond the routine in the pits, they will tell the story there. If they are behind on their commericial quota, they will squeeze two more in. Whether there is something shown on TV or not doesn't change what NASCAR sees. Furthermore, a hunk of padding off a roll cage can look like a hunk of metal from a distance. Only a yellow will tell them.

I think NASCAR should let more go...but I am not the guy having to wear it if a guy cuts a tire down on debris that was obvious to the drivers. If you are going to go around questioning NASCAR all the time...maybe just stop watching it eh? God knows the IRL can use fans...

[harvick#1]

So I have to ask, why do these "debris" cautions normally appear at the very end of the race and normally just before green flag pitstops.

A Hot Dog wrapper is not justifible as a "debris" caution, nor is throwing a caution to sweep the track clean. I have noticed that the IRL rarely will throw Debris cautions because there has to be "debris" on the track to solidify a caution.

Fox/ABC not showing the debris picked up IN the racing line will have everyone pissed off of these fake cautions. and I did watch practically watch the entire race on a rubbish track that shouldn't even host a race.

as you say mark, the drivers should be the ones telling nascar there is debris on the track, if majority rules, then a yellow is thrown, but if not, keep racing like the other series' do

[Wade91]

i dunno if there was really any debres or not, but i'm glad that coution came out, becouse it made for a awesome race, and a shootout to the finish :D

[Lee Roy]

Of course, you wouldn't know this because you claim about 5 times a year to have stopped watching NASCAR.


Amazing, isn't it.

[Sparky1329]

My rule-of-thumb on cautions has always been this. If the TV crew shows it it's a legitmate caution. If not it's bogus.

And, by the way, Tony Stewart also called out NASCAR a couple of years ago for the same thing.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2007-04-25-stewart-radio_N.htm


"It's about the integrity of the sport," Stewart said. "When I feel our own sanctioning body isn't taking care of that, it's hard to support them and feel proud about being a driver in the Nextel Cup Series. I guess NASCAR thinks, 'Hey wrestling worked, and it was for the most part staged, so I guess it's going to work in racing, too.' "

NASCAR has thrown 20 debris cautions in eight races. Stewart finished second to Jimmie Johnson at Atlanta Motor Speedway after a late debris yellow wiped out a lead.

"I don't know they've run a fair race all year," Stewart said.

[Mark in Oshawa]

So I have to ask, why do these "debris" cautions normally appear at the very end of the race and normally just before green flag pitstops.

A Hot Dog wrapper is not justifible as a "debris" caution, nor is throwing a caution to sweep the track clean. I have noticed that the IRL rarely will throw Debris cautions because there has to be "debris" on the track to solidify a caution.

Fox/ABC not showing the debris picked up IN the racing line will have everyone pissed off of these fake cautions. and I did watch practically watch the entire race on a rubbish track that shouldn't even host a race.

as you say mark, the drivers should be the ones telling nascar there is debris on the track, if majority rules, then a yellow is thrown, but if not, keep racing like the other series' do


You cannot let the drivers dictate it. All but the leaders would see stuff that wasn't there.

When Tony ripped NASCAR, he did it and has said little since. Has been bought? Hardly. I think he knows the truth. There is debris out there most of the time, and for the most part, the cautions seem to benefit most of the field. I know NASCAR may do it to suit their purposes, but as I pointed out...you can always stop watching.

[harvick#1]

didn't Stewart get fined for saying that? I dont remember the aftermath, but I believe he got in trouble for saying it.

even DW started questioning Nascar during acouple races over Debris cautions.

so then if thats the case there will always be debris on the track because of tire marbles from the wear.

the other beef with Nascar is when they do throw a debris flag on a big track, they still drive around under yellow for 4-5 laps??? if there is one little piece of metal or hotdog wrapper, the caution should last 1-2 laps tops. the tracks shouldn't be swept every caution to clean the surface.

[call_me_andrew]

I wouldn't call it a phantom caution at California though. ABC showed the debris this time.

But it is nice to know the drivers hate it as much as I do.

[Sparky1329]

didn't Stewart get fined for saying that? I dont remember the aftermath, but I believe he got in trouble for saying it.

even DW started questioning Nascar during acouple races over Debris cautions.

so then if thats the case there will always be debris on the track because of tire marbles from the wear.

the other beef with Nascar is when they do throw a debris flag on a big track, they still drive around under yellow for 4-5 laps??? if there is one little piece of metal or hotdog wrapper, the caution should last 1-2 laps tops. the tracks shouldn't be swept every caution to clean the surface.

Yeah he did but for something else. Uh huh. Right.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1107428/index.htm


Stewart's season got worse on Friday afternoon when NASCAR fined him $10,000 and placed him on probation, ostensibly for skipping a mandatory postrace media session in Phoenix on April 21, though it was clear that NASCAR was also punishing him for his rant.

[Sparky1329]

You cannot let the drivers dictate it. All but the leaders would see stuff that wasn't there.

When Tony ripped NASCAR, he did it and has said little since. Has been bought? Hardly. I think he knows the truth. There is debris out there most of the time, and for the most part, the cautions seem to benefit most of the field. I know NASCAR may do it to suit their purposes, but as I pointed out...you can always stop watching.

Yes there is debris out there most of the time. You'd have to be a moron to not realize that some of those yellow flags are bogus. It doesn't seem to bother most race fans.

As for Tony, I know NASCAR got their message across. On his radio show at that time he mentioned his not being able to sit down for a week following his visit to the NASCAR trailer. :D

[muggle not]

Yes there is debris out there most of the time. You'd have to be a moron to not realize that some of those yellow flags are bogus. It doesn't seem to bother most race fans.

As for Tony, I know NASCAR got their message across. On his radio show at that time he mentioned his not being able to sit down for a week following his visit to the NASCAR trailer. :D
probably correct, most are for real but some are competition cautions. I sometimes get pissed about them but not to the point of stopping watching.

What really ticks me off is when at the end of races when we have the great racing occuring they throw a caution.

[NickFalzone]

Muggle, I feel the same way. While the competition cautions or fake-debris yellows are annoying, usually they're thrown at an appropriate time when there's no racing going until till the checkers. And yes, there's usually some small debris out there, but it could be and is sometimes overlooked. What I dislike more though is when there's a ton of great racing going on at the front, maybe with 3-6 laps left to go, then someone spins in the infield and can probably get going again no problem, but they STILL throw the yellow. And then other times the same thing happens, and they don't! I'm not going to abandon NASCAR because there's a few officiating things I do not like though, every racing series has room for improvement in one way or another.

[RaceFanStan]

Hey, did anyone find my water bottle ???
(I think someone threw it on the track ...) http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

[call_me_andrew]

I'm not going to abandon NASCAR because there's a few officiating things I do not like though, every racing series has room for improvement in one way or another.

I know the feeling. I too want to build a scale model of the Titanic to see if deck chair arrangement could affect how quickly the ship sank.

[harvick#1]

Hey, did anyone find my water bottle ???
(I think someone threw it on the track ...) http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

nope, didnt see it, only saw the rollbar padding on the track :laugh:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yes there is debris out there most of the time. You'd have to be a moron to not realize that some of those yellow flags are bogus. It doesn't seem to bother most race fans.

As for Tony, I know NASCAR got their message across. On his radio show at that time he mentioned his not being able to sit down for a week following his visit to the NASCAR trailer. :D


I think they may be bogus. You might think also, but NASCAR claims, and rightly i think that they don't want to ignore something and have a guy cut a tire and stuff it in the wall. I know they were bogus in the old days when Earhnadt Sr. would be having an off day and be in danger of being lapped when they would pull out the yellow.

I also remember a road course Marshal from the Glen being told by NASCAR officials in their morning meeting that if they are told over the radio a yellow is being called for a caution in a corner, and they are at that corner and NOT seeing the debris, they are NOT to say so on the radio, so there is some level of credence to the theory NASCAR used to throw fake cautions. THat said, this was 15 years ago and I do think to an extent they are a lot more cautious. THat...and I know how much crap is on a race track after 40 laps of guys bouncing cars off of walls...

[Jag_Warrior]

probably correct, most are for real but some are competition cautions. I sometimes get pissed about them but not to the point of stopping watching.

What really ticks me off is when at the end of races when we have the great racing occuring they throw a caution.

I guess I've almost come to expect the occasional (phantom) debris cautions. They don't bother me as much as the competition cautions. We're going to have one today at Lap 50. I know they didn't get the practice time. But unless it's something like Goodyear bringing bad tires (like at Indy), I think the teams that feel a need to pit should pi (on their own). And the ones who got the setup right, should keep motoring. Why pull everybody in?

Yellow flags, by closing up the field, do make "the show" better. But IMO, it takes away from the (pure) racing. But I'm still watching, so I don't guess it's that big a deal.