Right to bear arms prevents crime

[Jag_Warrior]

Living in California, I personally would have no problem with it being applied in the heavy population density urban areas infested with gang-bangers. Nevertheless, I see no reason for someone living in northern California, the great plains, Wyoming, and other land mass areas where the residency is sparse.

You mean the Assault Weapons Ban? But again, the AWB was just a cosmetics law. The exact (and I do mean EXACT) same weapon that was banned because it had a threaded barrel or a folding stock was legal once those items were removed. And since many (most?) hardcore gangbangers are convicted felons anyway, they're not allowed to own any type of firearm under Federal law anyway. But being that they're career criminals, they pay no attention to the law... any law. Aren't AK's and AK variants now illegal in California? If they are, then you probably won't/can't buy one. But any Crip, Hell's Angel, Mexican Mafia or Aryan Brotherhood member who wants one can still get one. He can even get the (post 1986) full auto/select fire models that you or I would never see outside of a tour of a military base.

This is why I think there should be a hard and heavy focus on gangs, both street and organized. I think the focus should be coordinated by Federal, state and local police agencies... and the National Guard, if necessary. In areas where the police are afraid to go (and every major U.S. city has them) use APV's for patrols and raids. I know a lot of people would howl to the moon about that. But either we accept that gangs are terrorizing many of the major U.S. cities or we pretend that all is well. Go after the people who are the root cause of MUCH of the crime in this country. I also believe in gang interdiction programs.

We, as members of a supposedly civilized society, have to realize that the kids who grow up in these areas don't see the world in the same way that many of us do. So it is up to us to show them that there is another, better, way to live. What we cannot do is foster some sort of retarded us vs. them mentality when it comes to ANY & ALL people who happen to live in impoverished, crime ridden areas. In what I'm suggesting, THAT would be the tricky part. I know that. So for lack of a better phrase, I believe there should be a carrot at least equal to the stick.

[Bob Riebe]

Wrong. If that were the case, the guns would either be totally forbidden or freely available for everyone. Instead there is a compromise where guns are still available with certain restrictions. Compromising is about looking for and settling on status quo.
Restrictions exist, for non-felons, and they in some cases can get there firearm rights back, because politicians crapped on the constitution, and there is no way to totally undo it minus armed revolt.

We have courts that make their own laws and to hell with constitutional rights, that is why the 2nd Amendment exists, to protect from the government and for no other reason.
Sadly too many lemmings, or now people who come from countries where they never had rights, do as they are told.
It is understandable for the imports, but those born here have no excuse.

[Bob Riebe]

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/images-4/iraq-war-victims.jpg

http://paulwilkinson.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/vietnam-war-photo.jpg
These show what?

The lower one is the result of the North Viets invading the South, your hypocrisy is showing again.

[Eki]

These show what?

The lower one is the result of the North Viets invading the South, your hypocrisy is showing again.
What was the US doing there? Vietnam is nowhere near the US.

[airshifter]

What was the US doing there? Vietnam is nowhere near the US.

Normandy isn't very close to the US either. You have a point?

[Eki]

Normandy isn't very close to the US either. You have a point?
Yes. Without the US, North Vietnamese would have won relatively quickly and easy. Now it took 20 years and millions of people died. The US supported a government that wasn't supported by most Vietnamese:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War


A devout Roman Catholic, Diem was fervently anti-communist, nationalist and socially conservative. Historian Luu Doan Huynh notes, however, that "Diem represented narrow and extremist nationalism coupled with autocracy and nepotism."[71] As a wealthy Catholic, Diem was viewed by many ordinary Vietnamese as part of the elite who had helped the French rule Vietnam; Diem had been interior minister in the colonial government. The majority of Vietnamese people were Buddhist, and were alarmed by actions such as his dedication of the country to the Virgin Mary.
Beginning in the summer of 1955, he launched the "Denounce the Communists" campaign, during which communists and other anti-government elements were arrested, imprisoned, tortured, or executed. Diem instituted a policy of death penalty against any activity deemed communist in August 1956.[72] Opponents were labeled Viet Cong ("Vietnamese communist") by the regime to degrade their nationalist credentials. As a measure of the level of political repression, about 12,000 suspected opponents of Diem were killed in the years 1955–1957 and by the end of 1958 an estimated 40,000 political prisoners had been jailed.[73]
In May, Diem undertook a ten-day state visit to the United States. President Eisenhower pledged his continued support. A parade in New York City was held in his honor. Although Diem was openly praised, in private Secretary of State John Foster Dulles conceded that he had been selected because there were no better alternatives.[74]
Robert McNamara wrote that the new American patrons were almost completely ignorant of Vietnamese culture. They knew little of the language or long history of the country.[40] There was a tendency to assign American motives to Vietnamese actions, and Diem warned that it was an illusion to believe that blindly copying Western methods would solve Vietnamese problems.[40]

Normandy was not in a civil war? You have a point?

Besides, Normandy gave the Soviets a possibility to concentrate their forces against Finland, so don't expect me to thank:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyborg%E2%80%93Petrozavodsk_Offensive

[Bob Riebe]

Yes. Without the US, North Vietnamese would have won relatively quickly and easy. Now it took 20 years and millions of people died. The US supported a government that wasn't supported by most Vietnamese:


The wiki is the tool for fools; whereas you ARE for invading other countries to force what ever the invading country wants.

As I said your hypocrisy is showing again.

The lower photo also shows why citizens must have the right to bear arms, the North might not have invaded and butchered so many South Viets.

[Eki]

The wiki is the tool for fools; whereas you ARE for invading other countries to force what ever the invading country wants.

Invading other countries? That was a Vietnamese civil war. There was no invading other countries, unless you mean the US and South Vietnamese invading Laos and Cambodia:

http://www.taxivantha.com/1_Cambodia/116.htm


When in 1969 Henry Kissinger became President Nixon's security advisor, he persuaded Nixon to widen the war with massive bombing of Cambodia and Laos, which killed approximately 600,000 Cambodian civilians (and another 350,000 in Laos)

I'm curious on how you see the US Civil War. Do you think that the North invaded the South, which was another country?

[Bob Riebe]

Invading other countries? That was a Vietnamese civil war. There was no invading other countries, unless you mean the US and South Vietnamese invading Laos and Cambodia:

http://www.taxivantha.com/1_Cambodia/116.htm



I'm curious on how you see the US Civil War. Do you think that the North invaded the South, which was another country?
The Norrth and South were two separate countries whether it fit the doctirne of you or other lying liberals like it or not.

Your death totals are let's pretend, bs.

Do you mean the allies went in to fight the North Viets that invaded Laos and Cambodia, sure did.
One of the leading Laotian Generals lives in Minn.

U.S. civil war is in no way related and to try to relate is asinine to the levelof moronics.

[markabilly]

The wiki is the tool for fools;s.
only fool around here is wiki-eki, and people who respond seriously to this troll doll who ain't from Finland....I bet he is Pino's alter ego...or may be he is Mark the administrator

[Jag_Warrior]

Sarah says, Is that you, Jag, you little turd, talking about me again....




yeah, jag, you talkin to me?? well you talkin to me....just you and wikieki line your sorry butts up, right over there, so momma can give you what you need right now



http://sarahpalinblog.typepad.com/.a/6a010535e0eff3970c01157106ec9b970c-pi

What Silly Sarah really said was, "Hey Mister, would you help me figure out how to load this thingamajig? I had them darn di-rections written on my hand... but I forgot and washed my hands."

And of course I would say, "You betcha!" :dozey:

[Bob Riebe]

What Silly Sarah really said was, "Hey Mister, would you help me figure out how to load this thingamajig? I had them darn di-rections written on my hand... but I forgot and washed my hands."

And of course I would say, "You betcha!" :dozey:
I would bet she probably has forgotten more about firearms than you know, but in politics, she is starting to look to much like a typical insider to me.

[Jag_Warrior]

I would bet she probably has forgotten more about firearms than you know,

And that's a bet that you'd probably lose. From the time I was 8, my dad and uncle set me to disassembling firearms, (correctly) naming the parts and understanding what each component did. I didn't always get them right on the first try, but by 10 I had mastered my uncle's M1 Garand and his M1 carbine, my dad's shotguns and rifles and my mom's P38. And unlike your Queen, I wasn't allowed to write notes on a piece of paper... or my hand. :rolleyes:

If she really is a gun enthusiast, then good for her. But if she's just another politician who brags that she's shot a gun (at wolves from a helicopter), but in reality doesn't know a .308 from a .223 (other than, "the bigger thingamajig kicks harder than the littler thingmajig"), best that she just keeps posing with firearms so you smitten guys can keep drooling over her.

[Bob Riebe]

And that's a bet that you'd probably lose. From the time I was 8, my dad and uncle set me to disassembling firearms, (correctly) naming the parts and understanding what each component did. I didn't always get them right on the first try, but by 10 I had mastered my uncle's M1 Garand and his M1 carbine, my dad's shotguns and rifles and my mom's P38. And unlike your Queen, I wasn't allowed to write notes on a piece of paper... or my hand. :rolleyes:


Did you use a teleprompter?

[Jag_Warrior]

Did you use a teleprompter?

An Etch-A-Sketch actually.

[airshifter]

Yes. Without the US, North Vietnamese would have won relatively quickly and easy. Now it took 20 years and millions of people died. The US supported a government that wasn't supported by most Vietnamese:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War


Without the US, the North would have won due to the assistance of China and the USSR, forcing communism on a country that never had the opportunity to decide their own fate in the matter.

Without the US and other allied nations, Germany would have continued walking all over a good part of Europe too, but I don't see you crying foul that the US was involved there. Oh wait, you do that in the next part of the quote.




Besides, Normandy gave the Soviets a possibility to concentrate their forces against Finland, so don't expect me to thank:



Maybe if Finland decided which side they were fighting for they would have had more allies. People that aren't sure which side they are fighting for are unlikely to find such allies.

[Eki]

Maybe if Finland decided which side they were fighting for they would have had more allies. People that aren't sure which side they are fighting for are unlikely to find such allies.
Finland did ask for help from the US before they asked Germany. Didn't get help, the US chose the Soviet Union over Finland. You take what you can get.

[markabilly]

What Silly Sarah really said was, "Hey Mister, would you help me figure out how to load this thingamajig? I had them darn di-rections written on my hand... but I forgot and washed my hands."

And of course I would say, "You betcha!" :dozey:


She say, "now that you mention it, what is a clip??? where is a clip??? oh, clip, clip, clip, ....don't need it....I had my hair done last week.....

[Tazio]

Since it apears that I may be needed in Peru to help insure the Dutch don't take Van der sloot back by force,
I've decided to break out B.A.R.bie :dozey:



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3070/3084349894_f343600b98.jpg

[markabilly]

Since it apears that I may be needed in Peru to help insure the Dutch don't take Van der sloot back by force,
I've decided to break out B.A.R.bie :dozey:



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3070/3084349894_f343600b98.jpg

i am sure that sara p will want to play with your big gun and shoot it off.....and maybe the b.a.r bie, 2

[markabilly]

But Don't You worry, If I miss you, I will just reload.....








you punks



http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2009/07/504x_sarah_with_gun_to_his_head.jpg

[Tazio]

i am sure that sara p will want to play with your big gun and shoot it off.....and maybe the b.a.r bie, 2
In deed!!! But just for insuance purposes I have a ruffie' with her name on it :eek: ]
But Don't You worry, If I miss you, I will just reload.....[/QUOTE]
:beer: :rotflmao: :laugh:

[AAReagles]

You mean the Assault Weapons Ban? But again, the AWB was just a cosmetics law...

This is why I think there should be a hard and heavy focus on gangs, both street and organized. I think the focus should be coordinated by Federal, state and local police agencies... and the National Guard, if necessary. In areas where the police are afraid to go (and every major U.S. city has them) use APV's for patrols and raids...

... So for lack of a better phrase, I believe there should be a carrot at least equal to the stick.

Unfortunately, I wasn't clear when I mentioned parts of the country of Wyoming and such, but I believe you knew what I was attempting to say.

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying as first and foremost for a solution. The only problem is, as was mentioned by many of us before, is lack of enforcement of the laws. Though for myself, which I don't speak on behalf of others, it wouldn't matter if they banned AW (Assualt Weapons) from LA or SF, but that's just me... well, unless as I somewhat(?) mentioned earlier, that someone goes thru the background check (as you pointed out before) and is qualified to get a collector's permit or... however it would be regulated.

You're right too about the ban on AWs here, though I can't remember exactly when that came into effect... 1999?... 2000?...?


The APV is something I think will be used eventually... or it makes sense to me anyhow. In Lancaster, CA., the mayor was seeking to purchase and utilize a UAV, to combat crime. That's something I would be against, since street cameras - though can be easily taken out - are cheaper, and less intrusive to socieity.

Somewhere in southern CA., there was a large scale raid in the magnitude that you suggested earlier. I'll see if I can dig that up later.

[AAReagles]

Finland did ask for help from the US before they asked Germany. Didn't get help, the US chose the Soviet Union over Finland. You take what you can get.

Pardon me for saying so, but I think assisting Great Britain was the greater priority at the time, since it appeared to be the strongest allie at the time, aside from Russia.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Pardon me for saying so, but I think assisting Great Britain was the greater priority at the time, since it appeared to be the strongest allie at the time, aside from Russia.

The Finn's should have been backed, but Eki ignores the fact that a) the Finn's would not help deal with the Nazi's and b) the Soviets would. The Finn's were a casualty in a war that wasn't of their making, but considering the suffering of the Poles, the German people and many millions of Jews who were snuffed out for having a religion that Hitler didn't like, the Finn's got off light...

[Jag_Warrior]

Unfortunately, I wasn't clear when I mentioned parts of the country of Wyoming and such, but I believe you knew what I was attempting to say.

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying as first and foremost for a solution. The only problem is, as was mentioned by many of us before, is lack of enforcement of the laws. Though for myself, which I don't speak on behalf of others, it wouldn't matter if they banned AW (Assualt Weapons) from LA or SF, but that's just me... well, unless as I somewhat(?) mentioned earlier, that someone goes thru the background check (as you pointed out before) and is qualified to get a collector's permit or... however it would be regulated.

You're right too about the ban on AWs here, though I can't remember exactly when that came into effect... 1999?... 2000?...?

Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was following your point. Even though I'll sometimes catch myself using the term "assault weapon", it really is nothing more than a media created misnomer. About 20 years ago I bought what became the worst firearm and biggest piece of nothing that I have ever owned: a Cobray M11/9. Luckily I was able to sell it, and even make a few dollars on it, to some dufus who was even dopier than I was in buying the POS to begin with. If you ever watched Miami Vice back in the '80's, you'll remember seeing the boxy Mac 10 featured quite often. Well, the M11/9 was just a semi auto 9mm version of the full auto .45 cal. Mac 10 submachine gun. As best I recall, it had a 32 round stick magazine... and you needed all 32 rounds to hit the broad side of a barn just once. Horrible weapon! I bought it based on looks (too cheap and stupid to buy the better engineered, MUCH higher quality H&K SP89: semi auto version of the truly wonderful H&K MP5). But whether in Wyoming or south central L.A., I'm not sure that one could make a good case for something like the old M11/9 or something equally crappy (and inaccurate even at short range) like the Tec-9. "POS for dumb people" is the only term that really applies to either of those weapons. But when it comes to "assault rifles" like the AR-15 or the (M)AK-47, are they any more dangerous than any other semi auto rifle? The standard AR-15 shoots a .22 (.223), and while some people swear by them, more people see them as pop guns. Accurate (as long as there isn't a strong cross wind blowing and you don't hit a twig during flight), but not as ballistically perfect as the tried & true, time honored .30 caliber (.308). The 7.62x39mm AK round is actually 20% (+/-) LESS powerful than the old 30-30 round. So what's so incredibly dangerous about the AK and the various semi auto variants? The appearance. It does look like Mike Tyson after a stripper has refused his advances: SCARY! :eek: But once you get away from the appearance, and to the substance... it's nothing special. I like them. But I'm under no illusion that the AK is anymore deadly than any other medium cartridge rifle.

Here's a good video. Take a look. It really is worthwhile. What you're seeing in the beginning is an AK "Hunter" up top, an (M)AK-47 in the middle and the real deal AK-47 on the bottom. They ALL take the same mags. They ALL shoot the same round. The Hunter model and the (M)AK are really the same weapon, just with some of the evil looking parts removed (so that made the Hunter NOT an "assault rifle" :rolleyes :) . So the AK Hunter was legal under Clinton/Reno's AWB, while the (M)AK was made illegal IF it had a threaded barrel, a folding stock or a bayonet lug. The select fire AK was made illegal (post 1986) during the Reagan years.

YjM9fcEzSJ0&feature=related
And if I'm not mistaken, the deaths that this cop mentions at the beginning are two cops that got killed by members of the San Jose Bull Dogs. They're some "nice lads" who got booted out of a larger Hispanic gang because they were too violent. Yeah, how f'ed up is that? But the cops got killed after the boys invited two girls to a gang party. And when the girls got there, they found out they were the party. They raped and abused them for an evening. One girl decided she'd keep quiet. The other girl started acting like she was going to report the rape and name names. The Bull Dogs got wind of it, found her, put her in a car, drove her to an open field and shot her in the head. Problem solved... It was when the cops were searching for the guilty Bull Dogs that one of them got shot off of his motorcycle on a 'hood street, and I don't recall how the other one got killed. But the Bull Dogs didn't mind killing cops anymore than anybody else. So again, that goes back to my issue with many gun control proposals: we have to be prepared to deal with those who are most likely to commit violent crimes... and those who ignore current gun laws, so they'll ignore future gun laws too.




The APV is something I think will be used eventually... or it makes sense to me anyhow. In Lancaster, CA., the mayor was seeking to purchase and utilize a UAV, to combat crime. That's something I would be against, since street cameras - though can be easily taken out - are cheaper, and less intrusive to socieity.

Somewhere in southern CA., there was a large scale raid in the magnitude that you suggested earlier. I'll see if I can dig that up later.

Please do. I'd like to see it. I'm not for going totally John Wayne and turning already bad neighborhoods into even worse neighborhoods. But when cops are afraid to patrol certain areas after dark, then you have to give them the tools they need to do their jobs. But like I said, I also believe that you can offer alternatives to kids who have grown up thinking that being in a gang is "cool"... once it is established that being in a gang is going to make you a hunted animal. And hopefully it could be done better than when I was in L.A. in the late 90's, with that moron Daryl Gates and his retarded billboard: "Join Our Gang", showing a motorcycle cop as nothing more than a different type of gangbanger. From being around my uncle when he was in L.A. as a Fed, and getting to know some LAPD cops, that's pretty all much of those a-holes were. A lot of the Fed guys looked at them like they were a bunch of knuckle-dragging cavemen for good reason. But they loved to suck up to the Feds, as if they were all on the "same team". Poor delusional idiots. It never surprised me that so many people saw (see?) them as "the enemy".

[AAReagles]

Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was following your point. Even though I'll sometimes catch myself using the term "assault weapon", it really is nothing more than a media created misnomer. ….

The term I use, “weapon”, is just something I picked up from being in the military. From one portion of time to another, I’ve used M-16’s (A1 - Vietnam style, A2 - modern, for my time at least, late 1980’s - early 90’s ) , M249, M60, and the Colt .45, all of which as you probably imagined already, that I had to clean them up afterwords, with Que-tips and all. Which is one reason that after my stint in the service was over, is why I was never up to speed on the latest guns, attachments or laws for that matter.

After getting out of the army, guns, along with uniforms and digging trenches was something I figured I would never have to bother with, but found out otherwise, at some point of time or another.







Here's a good video. Take a look. It really is worthwhile…..

:up: Excellent video. One that needs to be available to the public, but won’t happen with the mainstream media…..

I got to thinking about it, after my last post on this subject, and remembered later that the FPD busts on gangs usually showed handguns and rifles that were modified by the stocks and barrels being shortened - illustrating some attempt to convert the rifle into a assualt weapon.

Once again, I liked that video, interesting that the LAPD detective would state that during his tenure, of approx., 50,000 weapons confiscated, no AK, or AR was successfully converted into full automatic.

So I retract what I said earlier about big cities here in Cali., about AW ban. Definetly see your point too (analogy) - "give em' an inch, they'll take your rifle."




Please do. I'd like to see it. I'm not for going totally John Wayne and turning already bad neighborhoods into even worse neighborhoods..

Still trying, but that was about 8-12 months ago, and damned if I can find it in the LA Times archives. The problem is that it was a small town in the desert region that I never heard of before, and can't seem to remember it. It wasn't Hemet btw, since it's well known that the local PD has someone targeting them.