Blackface outrage

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/heyheyoutrage/2009/10/08/1254701093476.html

Am I the only person who really isn't that fussed about some guys putting facepaint on?

I really could not care less if four black people 'whited up' in order to do a Beatles skit. So why do people get so worked up about it?

[Hawkmoon]

It's not racist. What happened in South Africa was racist. The KKK are racist. This is nothing more than bad TV.

I'm not surprised some Americans are getting their panties in a bunch. They seem to have lost any sense of humour when it comes to stuff like this.

[Azumanga Davo]

Poor comedy in my opinion. I wonder if Darryl chose them on purpose so he didn't have to make any more Hey Heys...

[Koz]

Poor taste...

But you guys are racist... Remember when you PM called that Mexican businessman a Mexicant?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Am I the only person who really isn't that fussed about some guys putting facepaint on?

I really could not care less if four black people 'whited up' in order to do a Beatles skit. So why do people get so worked up about it?

There is no negative historical context of four black men whiting-up.

[ShiftingGears]

There is no negative historical context of four black men whiting-up.

So you believe in guilt by association?

People are trying to look into things that aren't there. There is no malicious undertones to what they did, and people take stuff like this too seriously. People can joke about Australians being a bunch of convicts and it can be hilarious.

The way I see it, its political correctness taken too far.

The funniest thing about this is how people are now accusing Australia as being a racist country.

[ShiftingGears]

Poor taste...

But you guys are racist... Remember when you PM called that Mexican businessman a Mexicant?

How does that example of mediocre wordplay constitute racism?

[BeansBeansBeans]

So you believe in guilt by association?

No, but I believe that there are certain things that can cause offence which should, if possible, be avoided. Blacking-up is one of them.

For what it's worth, I think those labelling Australia a racist country because of this are idiotic.

[Koz]

How does that example of mediocre wordplay constitute racism?

Surely you can't mean that?

Is it not a derogatory term? Or was that done in good and friendly spirits too?
In no other country in the modern world would a head of government/state would get away with such a remark, except maybe Iran.

Case in point, don't you agree?

Personally I'm all against political correctness, but going out of one's way to do this is quite sad.

Before we can judge the likes Ahmadinejad, we should look at ourselves, standing right now.

Just because we don't like facts doesn't mean they aren't true.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Personally I'm all against political correctness

Why? I think it is largely a good thing.

[Easy Drifter]

Like referring to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree?
Like a Toronto School telling the pupils Nov. 11, Rememberance Day, is a Muslim Holy Day? Not a word about what Nov.11 means to Cdns. and our soldiers.
That sort of political correctness!!!!!!! :mad:
Banning all Christmas references from a courthouse because it might offend non Christians.
I basically am aethiest but that sort of thing is just sheer stupidity if not reverse racism.

[Cooper_S]

As a massive Harry Connick Jr fan I was highly impressed with his zero score...

It was a an old joke (Jackson being white) executed in a dumb fashion but extrapolate that to mean Australia is racist is taking it a bit far...

[BeansBeansBeans]

Like referring to a Christmas tree as a holiday tree?
Like a Toronto School telling the pupils Nov. 11, Rememberance Day, is a Muslim Holy Day? Not a word about what Nov.11 means to Cdns. and our soldiers.
That sort of political correctness!!!!!!! :mad:
Banning all Christmas references from a courthouse because it might offend non Christians.
I basically am aethiest but that sort of thing is just sheer stupidity if not reverse racism.

You've simply highlighted a few extreme examples of people in authority taking things too far (a lot of these stories, like the "Baa baa rainbow sheep" one, aren't even true). I don't feel like my life is curtailed in any way by politicial correctness, but if I wanted to call a work colleague a paki or a poof*, I'd quick find myself out of a job, and that's the way it should be.

* - I originally wrote f****t but it got blocked by the filter. OMG! PC GONE MAD!

[GridGirl]

F'gts and peas are a local speciality dish where I live. Damn this forum for taking away my human right to talk about my local foods. It's political correctness gone mad I tell you. F'gts and peas fueled the industrial revolution. :p

[BeansBeansBeans]

F'gts and peas are a local speciality dish where I live. Damn this forum for taking away my human right to talk about my local foods. It's political correctness gone mad I tell you. F'gts and peas fueled the industrial revolution. :p

I used to enjoy eating spiced balls of offal, but I can't anymore, in case it upsets a gay. It's political correctness gone mad.

[Easy Drifter]

Every case I mentioned is true. In every case the decision, except the court got reversed. The judge who ordered a Christmas tree removed refused to back down and by law she was within her power. I know the High School involved and my ex went there.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Every case I mentioned is true. In every case the decision, except the court got reversed. The judge who ordered a Christmas tree removed refused to back down and by law she was within her power. I know the High School involved and my ex went there.

Still, they're extreme examples. I wouldn't condemn political correctness just because a few over-zealous jobsworths take it too far.

[Hawkmoon]

Surely you can't mean that?

Is it not a derogatory term? Or was that done in good and friendly spirits too?
In no other country in the modern world would a head of government/state would get away with such a remark, except maybe Iran.

Case in point, don't you agree?

Personally I'm all against political correctness, but going out of one's way to do this is quite sad.

Before we can judge the likes Ahmadinejad, we should look at ourselves, standing right now.

Just because we don't like facts doesn't mean they aren't true.

That's a load of rubbish. To suggest that Australia is the only country in the world where racism can occur at government levels is ridiculous. I believe Malaysia has laws that prohibit non-Malays from holding certain positions. It's enshrined in law. What about the way China deals with some minorities whose cultural beliefs and practices are percieved to be a threat to Chinese rule? That's a far cry from our Prime Minister wishing the former boss of our national telecom provider "adios amigo" because of his Mexican background.

Racism is real, always has been, probably always will be. It's one of the darker aspects of the human condition. By getting upset over a joke, whether that joke was in poor taste or not, I think we run the risk of 'the boy who cried wolf' syndrome. Real racism will escape notice as people will think it's another case of somebody crying over nothing.

[BeansBeansBeans]

There are obviously some cultural differences at play here. In the UK (and almost certainly the USA as well) to black-up is deemed incredibly offensive. There is no debate to be had. If this happened in the UK it wouldn't have even reached our screens. In fact I very much doubt anyone would be stupid enough to try and get on telly whilst blacked-up in the first place. Did you not have the black & white minstels in Australia? I'm just trying to get a handle on why you guys seem to view it as a harmless joke.

[AAReagles]

It's not racist. What happened in South Africa was racist. The KKK are racist. This is nothing more than bad TV.

I'm not surprised some Americans are getting their panties in a bunch. They seem to have lost any sense of humour when it comes to stuff like this.

:up: As a Yank, I couldn't agree with you more. There's an epidemic of sensitivity in this country, where soon people will be subscribing for perscriptions to that as well.

[ShiftingGears]

Surely you can't mean that?

Is it not a derogatory term?true.

No, it is not a derogatory term. It is a dumb play on words. I really would like to know how that is considered derogatory, at all.

[ShiftingGears]

I'm just trying to get a handle on why you guys seem to view it as a harmless joke.

Probably because many don't feel the need to relate it to blackface comedy that existed in the 1920's and any malice that it contained back then. I just take it at face value. To me, it is no different to a 70's tribute band donning fake moustaches.

[ShiftingGears]

Why? I think it is largely a good thing.

Sometimes it prevents people saying the blunt truth.

An example - some would argue that you can't call midgets midgets because its politically incorrect. Even though they clearly are.

[Daniel]

For what it's worth, I think those labelling Australia a racist country because of this are idiotic.

Well I think there's quite a bit of racism going on in Australia just as there is quite a bit of racism here in the UK which shows with the popularity of the BNP.

[Daniel]

Probably because many don't feel the need to relate it to blackface comedy that existed in the 1920's and any malice that it contained back then. I just take it at face value. To me, it is no different to a 70's tribute band donning fake moustaches.
Agreed. How is a white person with white skin meant to do a skit about being a black person without blacking up?

Outrage at non-events like this merely helps to lessen the outrage when something genuinely racist comes along.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Agreed. How is a white person with white skin meant to do a skit about being a black person without blacking up?

White people shouldn't be doing skits about being black.

I think they should release 'Mind Your Language' on DVD. There's obviously a market for that sort of thing down under.

[Daniel]

What's wrong with a skit about being black? As long as they don't make it negative or insulting I see no problem with it.

[BeansBeansBeans]

What's wrong with a skit about being black?

I agree with you that this forum needs a facepalm smiley.

[ShiftingGears]

What's wrong with a skit about being black? As long as they don't make it negative or insulting I see no problem with it.

I agree. People can impersonate whoever they want to.

[Daniel]

I agree. People can impersonate whoever they want to.
Yep. But it's OK for the Brits to have hugely insulting and unintelligent skits like Never met a nice South African :wave:

[BeansBeansBeans]

Yep. But it's OK for the Brits to have hugely insulting and unintelligent skits like Never met a nice South African :wave:

What is Never met a nice South African? I've not heard of it.

[Daniel]

Google?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Google?

I've read up on it now.

Seems to me like satire used to attack the apartheid regime. That is not the same as blacking-up.

[Daniel]

It's not satire it's lowbrow South African bashing.

[BeansBeansBeans]

It's not satire it's lowbrow South African bashing.

Maybe it seems that way now, and I'm sure it would constitute 'lowbrow South African bashing' if it were to have been written today, but at the time it was no doubt a satirical attack on apartheid South Africa. Spitting Image was a satirical, political comedy show.

[Bezza]

White people shouldn't be doing skits about being black.


Why exactly? As long there are no racist overtones then I fail to see what the problem is. And as far it being wrong in Britain, again - you are generalizing completely. Two harmless examples spring instantly to mind -

1) Little Britain, Bubbles' partner, David Williams in a black fat suit. Harmless fun (you'll probably say its also fat-ist)

2) Harry Enfield's Nelson Mandela.

And black comedians are always taking the mickey out of white people, and most of it is funny and all of it is harmless observational comedy. I fail to see what the difference is.

[Daniel]

Why exactly? As long there are no racist overtones then I fail to see what the problem is. And as far it being wrong in Britain, again - you are generalizing completely. Two harmless examples spring instantly to mind -

1) Little Britain, Bubbles' partner, David Williams in a black fat suit. Harmless fun (you'll probably say its also fat-ist)

2) Harry Enfield's Nelson Mandela.

And black comedians are always taking the mickey out of white people, and most of it is funny and all of it is harmless observational comedy. I fail to see what the difference is.
Couldn't agree more Bezza. It helps them to get into the character and the act is more convincing. If there are racist overtones then it's wrong but I don't mind black comedians poking a bit of fun at white people. I quite like some of Reginald D Hunter's jokes about white man :)

[Daniel]

Maybe it seems that way now, and I'm sure it would constitute 'lowbrow South African bashing' if it were to have been written today, but at the time it was no doubt a satirical attack on apartheid South Africa. Spitting Image was a satirical, political comedy show.
I'm sorry but you're talking crap

None of the following is satire. It's extremely rude and insulting generalisation at best.

How can the following be satire .....


No, he's never met a nice South African
And that's not bloody surprising man
'Cause we're a bunch of arrogant s
Who hate black people

No, he's never met a nice South African
And that's not bloody surprising man
'Cause we're a bunch of talentless murderers
Who smell like baboons

No, he's never met a nice South African
And that's not bloody surprising man
'Cause we're a bunch of ignorant loudmouths
With no sense of humour - ha ha

..... when calling someone from the subcontinent a Pakki (not something I'd say personally) is considered racist?

It seems that petty insults and generalisations are fine when it comes to insulting people from a country who's done something as bad as Apartheid. The thing is that's ****ing rich coming from a country that invaded South Africa for gold and diamonds just over a 100 years ago much like the US is meant to have invaded Iraq for oil and who played just as much of a part in the racism that caused so many problems in South Africa as the descendents of the Dutch who are lumped with being at fault.

The biggest mistake South Africa made (other than the whole Apartheid thing which was a darn big mistake) was to be racist towards Black people a bit too long after the kool kids had stopped doing it.

[BeansBeansBeans]

The word 'paki' is an insult used to abuse and deman asian immigrants. The Spitting Image song is a satire targeted at the white ruling class in SA during apartheid. One is ouright bullying, attacking the weak, the other is taking potshots at an oppressive regime. If that vast difference is lot on you then there's no point in even discussing this further.

[Daniel]

The word 'paki' is an insult used to abuse and deman asian immigrants. The Spitting Image song is a satire targeted at the white ruling class in SA during apartheid. One is ouright bullying, attacking the weak, the other is taking potshots at an oppressive regime. If that vast difference is lot on you then there's no point in even discussing this further.
Nuh uh. You're merely interpreting it in the way which you want to. In Australia for instance Paki is or at least was used as a non-derogatory term a lot in cricket coverage. Of course the Spitting Image song was meant to be directed at the govt of South Africa but it simply doesn't come across like that and isn't written like that. I'm more than happy to discuss this further because it's obvious that you're not bothering to perhaps put yourself in the shoes of a white South African who had nothing to do with Apartheid.

The song as as irresponsible and as offensive as the Islamic propaganda that seeks to paint all British as BNP types who hate anyone who's not white. If you can't see that......

[Bezza]

Nuh uh. You're merely interpreting it in the way which you want to. In Australia for instance Paki is or at least was used as a non-derogatory term a lot in cricket coverage. Of course the Spitting Image song was meant to be directed at the govt of South Africa but it simply doesn't come across like that and isn't written like that. I'm more than happy to discuss this further because it's obvious that you're not bothering to perhaps put yourself in the shoes of a white South African who had nothing to do with Apartheid.

The song as as irresponsible and as offensive as the Islamic propaganda that seeks to paint all British as BNP types who hate anyone who's not white. If you can't see that......

Don't mention the BNP around BBB - he will go mental!

I personally am looking forward to seeing what Nick Griffin has to say on Question Time on 22nd October. It will be interesting see whether the BNP are really what they are made out to be. Nevertheless, the fact the BNP are even in the mainsteam is a product of Labour's appalling term in government, which will hopefully come to a conclusion in June 2009.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Don't mention the BNP around BBB - he will go mental!

I personally am looking forward to seeing what Nick Griffin has to say on Question Time on 22nd October. It will be interesting see whether the BNP are really what they are made out to be. Nevertheless, the fact the BNP are even in the mainsteam is a product of Labour's appalling term in government, which will hopefully come to a conclusion in June 2009.

There's already a thread about Nick Griffin's appearance on question time.

I don't think it's fair to suggest that I go mental everytime the BNP is mentioned. I do however oppose everything they stand for.

[harsha]

Nuh uh. You're merely interpreting it in the way which you want to. In Australia for instance Paki is or at least was used as a non-derogatory term a lot in cricket coverage. Of course the Spitting Image song was meant to be directed at the govt of South Africa but it simply doesn't come across like that and isn't written like that. I'm more than happy to discuss this further because it's obvious that you're not bothering to perhaps put yourself in the shoes of a white South African who had nothing to do with Apartheid.

The song as as irresponsible and as offensive as the Islamic propaganda that seeks to paint all British as BNP types who hate anyone who's not white. If you can't see that......

I don't think 'paki' in the true meaning means anything racist,ofcourse it has had later racist connotations....if anything it means pure in hindi/urdu....but no thanks,I'm no pakistani,I'm an Indian...and I would be insulted to be called a paki for that reason alone and not for anything else...

[Daniel]

I don't think 'paki' in the true meaning means anything racist,ofcourse it has had later racist connotations....if anything it means pure in hindi/urdu....but no thanks,I'm no pakistani,I'm an Indian...and I would be insulted to be called a paki for that reason alone and not for anything else...
I most certainly wouldn't want to call you a Paki either as I know it's offensive for an Indian person :) It's like calling a Scottish person English or vice versa. In Australia the useage of Paki is very much along the same lines as Pom or Sheepshagger when talking about a British person or a New Zealander :p It's simply an identifier and not an insult.

Harsha, what would you feel about someone blacking up somewhat and putting on an Indian accent as long as it was done for comedy and not to represent Indians in a negative light?

There was this movie a few years ago and I don't remember the outcry.


http://www.starzlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/white_chicks.jpg

[harsha]

I most certainly wouldn't want to call you a Paki either as I know it's offensive for an Indian person :) It's like calling a Scottish person English or vice versa. In Australia the useage of Paki is very much along the same lines as Pom or Sheepshagger when talking about a British person or a New Zealander :p It's simply an identifier and not an insult.

Harsha, what would you feel about someone blacking up somewhat and putting on an Indian accent as long as it was done for comedy and not to represent Indians in a negative light?


I would probably find it funny if it was done in a nice way....if it's not done in a nice way,I wouldn't care two hoots about it

[Garry Walker]

White people shouldn't be doing skits about being black.

.

Why? what kind special creatures those blacks are that they should be excluded from being made fun of?
Black comedians have no problems making fun of whites, in fact everyone can make fun of whites and it is never considered racist (which I, for one, have no problem with. Humor is an essential part of life). Yet, dare to make a joke on blacks and every white guilt suffering liberal will go crazy.

I also cannot see how a white person "blacking up" is racist, but the opposite is not. White Guilt at its finest.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33641&s=rcmp


Why exactly? As long there are no racist overtones then I fail to see what the problem is.

What are racist overtones anyway? If you say blacks usually have bigger lips than whites, is that racist?

[Daniel]

What are racist overtones anyway? If you say blacks usually have bigger lips than whites, is that racist?

I think some people feel that the solution to racism is for us to completely forget that different races look different.

The thing is people are proud of their identity and black people are proud of being black, Indians are proud of being Indian etc etc so that clearly. When you do human biology at school these days you learn about how different races are adapted to the climate that they live in but I'm sure some people would rather people grow up thinking why the hell do some people have Mongolian eye folds and most people don't? Why are those people black, why are those people white and why are some people inbetween?

I firmly believe that by teaching these physical differences and why people are different that you teach people that the differences are only skin deep.

[Garry Walker]

I think some people feel that the solution to racism is for us to completely forget that different races look different.
Which of course, is not the truth.




The thing is people are proud of their identity and black people are proud of being black, Indians are proud of being Indian etc etc so that clearly. As they should be, but when a white person claims to be proud of being white, that is at once considered a sign being a huge racist.