Left 4 Dead 2 Banned in Australia

[ShiftingGears]

I am yet to play any Left 4 Dead game but I find Australia's lack of an R18+ classification for video games appalling, considering adults should be able to play adult games. Instead, courtesy of South Australian Attorney General Michael Atkinson, adults are denied what media they are entitled to watch in the name of protecting the children. The man is an idiot.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26086374-5014239,00.html


Your thoughts on censorship.

[rah]

I am yet to play any Left 4 Dead game but I find Australia's lack of an R18+ classification for video games appalling, considering adults should be able to play adult games. Instead, courtesy of South Australian Attorney General Michael Atkinson, adults are denied what media they are entitled to watch in the name of protecting the children. The man is an idiot.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26086374-5014239,00.html


Your thoughts on censorship.
Well the man is obviously a tool. Why R18 on movies but not games?

[Rollo]

Because in a cinema the people at the ticket booth and on the door can regulate who goes in to see the film. Same as at a pub or a public bar, the publican can restrict access to only those who are legally entitled to be there.

Whereas in people's homes, this can not be done.

[Mark]

Because in a cinema the people at the ticket booth and on the door can regulate who goes in to see the film. Same as at a pub or a public bar, the publican can restrict access to only those who are legally entitled to be there.

Whereas in people's homes, this can not be done.

So presumably the same restriction applies to DVDs of those films?

[Daniel]

I am yet to play any Left 4 Dead game but I find Australia's lack of an R18+ classification for video games appalling, considering adults should be able to play adult games. Instead, courtesy of South Australian Attorney General Michael Atkinson, adults are denied what media they are entitled to watch in the name of protecting the children. The man is an idiot.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26086374-5014239,00.html


Your thoughts on censorship.
I play Left 4 Dead a lot and it's a fantastic game. A bit silly that it would get an R rating and be banned. Here L4D has an 18 rating but it's still on sale.

Rollo is wrong, here in the UK sales of 18 rated games are restricted and I've even been asked to buy GTA4 by kids on a number of occasions and of course declined. Of course parents can buy these games for their kids and IMHO that's not appropriate but it's their choice.

I wonder how distribution is going to be restricted though. Valve distribute all of their PC games digitally as well as in shops in DVD format so while you can physically stop discs coming into the country and ban shops from selling it what's to stop someone getting someone overseas to buy a copy and then send them the product key which then means they can download the game.

I get the feeling you weren't going to buy it but if you wanted to have the game I'd happily buy an extra copy when and email you the product code if you wanted :) That's of course if you were a PC gamer.

Left 4 Dead is a great game well worth playing. Have a read of the wiki here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_4_Dead and you'll see it's not just a mindless shootemup but a game based around a collapsed society like the movie 28 Days later.

[Mark]

With films it is well understood that some films are not suitable for those below 18. However there *still* seems to be an attitude that computer games are for children and that any computer game should be suitable for children to play. When of course that is no more the case for games than it is for films.

[Daniel]

With films it is well understood that some films are not suitable for those below 18. However there *still* seems to be an attitude that computer games are for children and that any computer game should be suitable for children to play. When of course that is no more the case for games than it is for films.
Couldn't agree more. If I had children they'd be playing games which were of an appropriate rating. Too often people think computer games = kiddies stuff :mark: Whilst L4D isn't the most horrific game I've ever seen it's certainly not appropriate for anyone under the age of 15.

[GridGirl]

A month or so ago I was buying alcohol in a supermarket when the lady at the till asked me for ID. I showed her my ID, and then she got out this formally printed pad and proceeded to write my name, age and the amount and brand of each type of alcohol that I'd bought. I asked her about it and she just started waffling on about keeping records and about how they always see parents coming in and buying over 18 games like previously mentioned and then the adult giving them to the kid to hold. She mentioned how obvious it was that the games are for the kids and not the adults and they may still get prosecuted. Although I understood what she was doing, I really didnt see the point as you cant really prove it either way unless your followed the kid home to see them playing it.

Its not happened to me sinse and I cant remember which supermarket it was but it was either Adsa, Sainsbury's or Boothes. :s

[Mark]

Sure they should check your age. But I've never heard them keeping records of your name before!

And yes, certainly for alcohol and cigarettes it is still an offence for a shop to sell the product to an adult if they know it is going to be given to a child. Although that's very difficult to prove, most good shops will be well aware of the likes of kids standing outside doing the ususal "mister, can yer buy some tabs for is?"

[gloomyDAY]

Awesome game, stupid decision.

Anyone who wants the game is just going to find the means to get it anyway. I just think it's silly that the Australian government has to hold the collective hand of so many people when it comes to buying a bloody video game.

[Rollo]

So presumably the same restriction applies to DVDs of those films?

The rationale is that a video game is a more immersed form of entertainment, whereas watching a film is essentially a passive activity.

At the point of sale, someone selling DVDs is supposed to check for proof of age if they sell material rated R18+, presumably the Office of Film and Literature know this and the assumed failure of self-regulation, and so the R18+ rating has never been extended to video games.


Rollo is wrong,

Really? So in reference to my original post, you're telling me that publicans who are bound by the law as part pf their license don't have the right to restrict access to their premises? Or perhaps cinema ticket seller also don't have the right to deny access to see a film?
That's news to me.

[Daniel]

Really? So in reference to my original post, you're telling me that publicans who are bound by the law as part pf their license don't have the right to restrict access to their premises? Or perhaps cinema ticket seller also don't have the right to deny access to see a film?
That's news to me.

I never said that. I merely said you were wrong to say it's OK to have 18+ films and not have the games.

Gloomyday.... are you playing on PC or console?

[Rollo]

The question which the Office of Film and Literature are faced with is twofold.

1. How to stop material deemed unsuitable for those people under 18 from getting their hands on it.
2. Is a Video Game as an interactive experience, more "damaging" than a film which is more of less a passive one.

In both respects the Office of Film and Literature has been charged with the responsibility of determining what is and isn't best for society with regards these things, which leads to a different question: Who should be the "gateway" in such cases?

[MrJan]

Although I understood what she was doing, I really didnt see the point as you cant really prove it either way unless your followed the kid home to see them playing it.

I think that it's a legal thing, shows that they are asking their quota for the day. It's getting silly with the ID thing now though, I'm 24 and it seems to be more regular for me to be asked now than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

I seem to remember hearing quite a few cases of Australia banning stuff, for a country which has the stereotype of being laid back it seems that there an awful lot of uptight people living there :S

[rah]

I think that it's a legal thing, shows that they are asking their quota for the day. It's getting silly with the ID thing now though, I'm 24 and it seems to be more regular for me to be asked now than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

I seem to remember hearing quite a few cases of Australia banning stuff, for a country which has the stereotype of being laid back it seems that there an awful lot of uptight people living there :S

Like any country, we have some people that do not like change. Sometimes these people can get a lot of attention.

Not bringing out an R18+ catergory in games ignores the fact that the average age of gamers in Aus is 31.

[Rollo]

Not bringing out an R18+ catergory in games ignores the fact that the average age of gamers in Aus is 31.

That statistic ignores the fact that the IEAA (Interactive Entertainment Association of Australia) who conducted the survey surveyed only 1686 households, and of those 1686 households 100% of them signed up to be surveyed. This shows that the representative sample is a) not wide enough and b) not a true representation because only interested persons and parties actively sign up to be surveyed.
You'd need to provide a census statistic to be truly accurate, but nobody's done that.

[rah]

That statistic ignores the fact that the IEAA (Interactive Entertainment Association of Australia) who conducted the survey surveyed only 1686 households, and of those 1686 households 100% of them signed up to be surveyed. This shows that the representative sample is a) not wide enough and b) not a true representation because only interested persons and parties actively sign up to be surveyed.
You'd need to provide a census statistic to be truly accurate, but nobody's done that.

Ok then. I will say that with 100% of the of the survey conducted on the age of gamers in aus, that the average is 31.

[Daniel]

Ok then. I will say that with 100% of the of the survey conducted on the age of gamers in aus, that the average is 31.
In my experience the vast majority of PC gamers in Australia are probably in their late 20's or so

[ShiftingGears]

The rationale is that a video game is a more immersed form of entertainment, whereas watching a film is essentially a passive activity.


...For adults.

And in that, it does not matter whether it is interactive or passive. You can't try to deny media to people because of the risk it could end up in childrens hands.

This Atkinson guy is a bit of a fundamentalist and I have seen limited or no support of him in his refusal to allow an R18+ classification for video games.

[Rollo]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26182654-5014239,00.html

You'll get your game now. It has been modified so it can be sold in Australia.

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26182654-5014239,00.html

You'll get your game now. It has been modified so it can be sold in Australia.

It was never about getting the game. It is about getting an uncensored product. I have a game where the cutscenes were edited out so there was no storyline whatsoever. They still released the game here, did the lack of an R18+ rating negatively impact the gaming experience? Absolutely.