Alonso vs Massa [Ferrari] - 2010 [Archive]

jens

30th September 2009, 21:28

Sonic

30th September 2009, 21:39

OOooo OOoo me first *waves hands frantically*

Even stevens methinks.

Steve2009

30th September 2009, 22:01

I predict Fred mops the floor with him. (no insult intended)JMO

driveace

30th September 2009, 22:07

Will be Alonso on top.See what he does with the Renault now,and thats a sh*t car
And he will be secretive about set up too !

Koz

30th September 2009, 22:08

FA will decimate Massa, and if he does not, he will cry favorites. And expose some other scandals.
Depends how he adjusts to the car. With testing back, he will do much better than Massa.

Lennat

30th September 2009, 23:46

If Ferrari just wanted someone to roughly match Massa, they could have kept Kimi for another year. I think Ferrari excepts more from Alonso, as do I. :)

wedge

1st October 2009, 00:05

Alonso will beat Massa

Even though with Rob Smedley he has formed a great partnership I'm wondering how Massa will cope externally from psychological pressure .

keysersoze

1st October 2009, 00:13

The team will be vastly improved, but just can't see them getting along at all, especially after a few races. And if one of them has a decided advantage, the poop will hit the fan.

johngordon

1st October 2009, 00:17

I would not be so sure, lets not forget that at times Massa was as quick if not quicker than the great MS. and everyone stated that Kimi would come in and blow Massa to the weed's and it just never happened. I can't get my head around why people still refuse to accept Massa as an above average driver.

IMO Alsono coming to Ferrari will steer the whole team in a new direction, Alosno will step up to the chalenge of filling the gap within the development side of the team that has been missing since MS left. This will be a benefit of both Alonso and Massa. I don't think it will be a walk in the park for Alonso and would put my money on Massa beating him in his first year.

I only hope the team do not form sides and put all their egg's into one basket. All in all though great move for ferrari and fantastic to have him in the team, good news all round.

Firstgear

1st October 2009, 01:17

Ferrari hired Alonso to be #1 (I would think Alonso got that in writing) so I expect Massa to step in line behind him, just like he did for MS.

winer

1st October 2009, 01:21

I think Massa will take time to get back up to speed, after the lengthy layoff while he recovers from the head injury. So initially, FA might outshine him. But I think the second half of the season will be even-Steven.

gloomyDAY

1st October 2009, 01:39

I predict Fred mops the floor with him. (no insult intended)JMOI second that.

Saint Devote

1st October 2009, 01:55

Massa has taken on an immense challenge with Alonso as teammate and ought to have a long and deep chat with his great friend Rubens Barrichello.

Alonso and Schumacher are the same personalities in that they demand absolute focus and will not tolerate any dilution.

In 2010 everyone will know just how much Ferrari had been favoring Massa over Raikkonen during a season.

Is Massa capable of standing up to the pyschological warfare that Alonso will wage? It will be something new and we are all aware that Massa is not strong in that department.

Nobody should expect Massa to be totally demolished - remember there were periods when Barrichello would beat Schumacher - such as during the 2003 championship season.

And Massa will have Schumacher in his corner, the man that Alonso beat for the world title twice in a row and essentially trounced in 2006!

Good decision by Ferrari but their nemesis will Raikkonen. Both Raikkonen and Hamilton in good Mclarens - a nightmare.

anthonyvop

1st October 2009, 02:01

Alonso is the best driver in F1 so I expect him to outpace Massa. If Ferrari wanted somebody who was Massa's equal they would have gobe after Hamilton.

Ranger

1st October 2009, 02:03

It will be more even than not.

Everyone expected Raikkonen to smash Massa (myself included) and it didn't happen. There's no reason to think it will happen this time around.

Hondo

1st October 2009, 03:52

I think Alonso will have an edge by virtue of seemly being able to deliver better results in adverse conditions than Massa. By adverse conditions, I don't just mean in the rain. He deals with changes better when the original race plan goes in the toilet.

I'n not convinced Mass will finish the season next year.

CNR

1st October 2009, 04:05

but less not forget that massa is allmost the ferrari equivalent (with 10 years) to mclaren and lewis and redbull and vettel

F1boat

1st October 2009, 05:50

RJL25

1st October 2009, 07:32

Alonso will definetly score more points and win more races BUT Massa will still be quicker in the odd race, especially Interlagos. They are a lot closer in ability then perhaps people at first glance will think, Massa IS capable of beating nanado when everything is going smoothly for him, the difference though will be Alonso's ability to get results when things AREN'T going smoothly...

RJL25

1st October 2009, 07:40

Next year the status quo will return - Ferrari V Mclaren

World Championship prediction:

WDC - Alonso
-2pts - Hamilton
-10pts - Massa
-25pts - Raikkonen (sorry Kimi fans but he is the new montoya - he WAS good)

DexDexter

1st October 2009, 08:18

I'm trying to look beyond my current dislike for Fred and think about the situation next year.IMO Michael Schumacher's position and his good relationship with Massa may cause some problems. I don't think Fred and Michael are friends, probably there is no love lost between those two. Kimi certainly didn't like Schumacher being around and I would think that Fernando feels the same. That could represent a problem for them.

woody2goody

1st October 2009, 09:23

IF, and at this point it's a big one, Massa comes back next season the same driver as he was before his injury, then I wouldn't like to call a winner between the two for next year.

However beyond 2010 I can see Alonso just getting better and better.

Either way, Ferrari will be a frightening proposition to deal with.

It will be up to the partnerships at McLaren, Brawn and Red Bull to really step up and mount a challenge, because I fear that Felipe and Fred will be too good for the lot of them, including Vettel and Hamilton.

Knock-on

1st October 2009, 09:28

Massa is no Lewis though.

Teflonso will beat Massa in the first half of the season and Lewis will beat Kimi.

Ferrari will put a clear #1 / #2 in place but McLaren will let their drivers race until there is no realistic chance for one particular driver.

Alas, by then it will be too late.

Massa fans will claim that Massa was disadvantaged at the beginning of the season to justify bringing Fred on board and the same people will claim that Kimi is every bit as good as Lewis but that McLaren sabotaged him to let golden boy look good.

Same s**t, different year :D

Dave B

1st October 2009, 09:43

I only hope that in this post-Todt era, Ferrari give both drivers an equal chance. Then I hope that Massa beats Alonso fair and square - I do love watching a good sulk. :D

RJL25

1st October 2009, 09:58

Exactly the same praise was heaped on Fred just before the 2007 season

For good reason, his personality may not have faired well at Mclaren, but he was still lightning fast and his reputation behind the wheel was never tarnished.

He was and still is the best driver in the paddock, Hamilton may be very very very very close, but through experience if nothing else Alonso is still better. Raikkonen is still close to the best when he is in the mood and could be bothered, Vettel WILL be one of the best when he grows up a bit more, Button has the talent but I don't think the killer instinct and Massa is very very very fast but doesn't have the temprement.

jens

1st October 2009, 10:29

Whenever I think about this FA-FM pairing, pre-2007 situation immediately crosses my mind, when most expected Kimi to mop the floor with Felipe. Three years on and once again most expect Massa to get beaten. Massa's ability to learn and adapt has been quite stunning. It almost looks like he never stops improving. I would actually even rate 2009 as Massa's best ever season, even better than 2008 - he possessed even more consistency and fast error-free driving than before.

How could this fight possibly pan out? Felipe's qualifying form in 2009 was a bit disappointing, but if he can regain his 2008 stunning one-lap pace (in Singapore on pole by 0,6 secs, in Bahrain/Malaysia by 0,5 secs, etc) I think he will outqualify Alonso. As for racing itself - well, I think in terms of raw pace Massa is every bit as quick as Alonso. But there are always some tricky questions, which one could put in Spaniard's favour. Maybe Alonso will be a bit more error-free? Maybe Alonso will be a bit more consistent? Maybe Alonso will be a bit faster in the wet? But as you see, all of them are "maybe's", which I'm not entirely convinced about.

As for Alonso, I think if his past is anything to go by, he could be vulnerable if he has a really fast team-mate alongside him. Of course it's entirely possible that he has learnt from past experiences by now, but this could be FA's main weakness and Massa's main trump-card in the battle. In 2004 Alonso was a bit dodgy by making mistakes here and there. 2007 he had a bit of a "so-so" season as well. Another three years on and how can he handle himself alongside a fully-recovered fast Felipe?

Knock-on

1st October 2009, 10:45

Taking a fresh look at this, I forsee some issues.

Massa isn't a Rubens and will not play second fiddle. If Alonso is quicker Massa will try to up his game and make a lot of mistakes.

However, the dynamics in the team may work out to be counter productive and they spend more time battleing each other than the rest of the grid.

McLaren on the other hand have a perfect mix of Ying and Yang. I think Kimi and Lewis will work very well together and be fast as a team.

Ferrari need to be very careful that they don't shoot themselves in the foot.

555-04Q2

1st October 2009, 10:45

Frodo will clean up my man Massa. He's just too good.

Steve2009

1st October 2009, 10:47

Another three years on and how can he handle himself alongside a fully-recovered fast Felipe?He'll handle it by being faster IMHO :dozey:

jens

1st October 2009, 10:52

He'll handle it by being faster IMHO :dozey:

He didn't handle 2004 and 2007 too well, so history might - just might! - repeat itself after another 3 years. ;) Still amazing, how easily Massa is written off.

And if he at least matches Alonso, will we start reading all kinds of excuses again, a'la the car doesn't suit Alonso, he is unmotivated, past his prime, team favours Massa, etc? :p :

Steve2009

1st October 2009, 10:56

Fred is just flat faster MHO bro!
I think you are over-analizing the situation.
It's not 2004, or 2007! :)

BeansBeansBeans

1st October 2009, 10:57

I think they'll make for a combustible partnership, given that they're both extremely highly-strung and capable of childish behaviour. Performance wise I think Alonso will come out on top, but I thought that about Kimi too, so...

Knock-on

1st October 2009, 13:53

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79090

Apparently both drivers will have equal status.

Does that mean Massa gets a pay rise and can choose his pit crews ;)

Steve2009

1st October 2009, 14:30

Does that mean Massa gets a pay rise and can choose his pit crews ;) Interesting question. I think you've touched on the fundamental difference between the two.
I think Fred will pick a team that really understands the way he extracts speed from a car,
and one that understands what is necessary to optomize his opportunity.
Massa (I love the kid) given the same opportunity would probably turn those choices over to Mike ;)

Steve2009

1st October 2009, 14:43

Interesting Q&A wih Alonso

Q: You know that many people say that you are the best...
FA: The only thing I know is that I can take one hundred per cent performance of any car that you give me. Now if people say that I'm the best... no I do not think I can say that.
http://www.manipef1.com/news/articles/10100/

wedge

1st October 2009, 15:28

BeansBeansBeans

1st October 2009, 15:32

How so with Massa?

The bickering with Alonso after the 2007 German Grand Prix, the little tantrum at China this year, the fact that he relies so heavily on his race engineer for psychological support. Need more?

woody2goody

1st October 2009, 17:10

He didn't handle 2004 and 2007 too well, so history might - just might! - repeat itself after another 3 years. ;) Still amazing, how easily Massa is written off.

And if he at least matches Alonso, will we start reading all kinds of excuses again, a'la the car doesn't suit Alonso, he is unmotivated, past his prime, team favours Massa, etc? :p :

The only reason I think any of us are thinking about writing Massa of (and I'm not one of them ;) ), is basically the fact that nobody knows if he's going to be back 100% in 2010.

If he is, then it will be very close, possibly dead even, but if Massa is off his game even slightly, Alonso will eat him for breakfast.

Next year may be the real test as to whether Fernando has grown up after 2007. Two years with Piquet were perfect for massaging his ego IMO, but I still like the guy.

UltimateDanGTR

1st October 2009, 18:37

i think this is all impossible to call. therefore, i am keeping my cards close to my chest.

jens

1st October 2009, 19:15

The only reason I think any of us are thinking about writing Massa of (and I'm not one of them ;) ), is basically the fact that nobody knows if he's going to be back 100% in 2010.

Well, I added a presumption in my opening post, in which Massa would make a full recovery, to open the debate. And not only that, but he shouldn't lose any of his hunger and commitment either.

Of course if FM doesn't make full recovery, then there isn't much to discuss as for getting top performances everything needs to be 100% in F1. And if Massa's eye is 95%, it's not good enough.

airshifter

2nd October 2009, 03:22

I personally feel that if Massa is back to 100% life will not be easy for Alonso. Felipe knows the team, and will know the new car as well as Fred. Two years ago I would have said Massa didn't stand a chance, but Massa has changed his game in the last couple of years.

I predict Felipe outperforming Fred, while Fred cries foul claiming that it's only due to the team supporting Felipe more.

leopard

2nd October 2009, 03:44

Alonso didn't yet know ferrari at all, and currently they are not in good form. Let's see what changes he can bring to the team. If Ferrari slightly improve it's quite fair to give the credit for Alonso. Felippe should not have problem with it, he will on the other hand take advantage of the existence of Alonso in the team. Felippe has been long being around with Ferrari, he will supply the team with any opinion and experience worthy. Mutualism symbiosis... :)

Valve Bounce

2nd October 2009, 05:19

Well-well-well. It looks like we are going to see a lot of interesting team-mate battles in 2010 and with the first confirmation (besides RBR, of course) of a full driver line-up by an F1 team, it's time to start debating. :D

Alonso vs Massa?(provided Felipe makes a full recovery, of course) Before I offer my opinion about this matter, I'll kindly let others to start with the debate. :)

Someone should create a poll too with options about who would come out on top:
- Alonso
- Massa
- Equal

It will be most interesting at meal times as Alonso is Spanish while Massa speaks Portuguese. Massa will be no pushover in any team, and I suspect that both drivers will assume that they have #1 status. I can just hear the arguments. :eek:

HenryM

2nd October 2009, 05:40

It will be most interesting at meal times as Alonso is Spanish while Massa speaks Portuguese. Massa will be no pushover in any team, and I suspect that both drivers will assume that they have #1 status. I can just hear the arguments. :eek:

they can speak italian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gql16hizyY

ioan

2nd October 2009, 09:17

I can't get my head around why people still refuse to accept Massa as an above average driver.

It's called bias. There's plenty of it around here! ;)

ioan

2nd October 2009, 09:20

Ferrari will put a clear #1 / #2 in place but McLaren will let their drivers race until there is no realistic chance for one particular driver.

I suppose this isn't based on the last 3 season's history! :D

Knock-on

2nd October 2009, 10:30

I suppose this isn't based on the last 3 season's history! :D

No it is not. However, the appointment of Alonso is almost a carbon copy of the beginning of the Schumacher era. Hell, a 2X Renault WDC coming to Ferrari from Renault bringing his own team. A Brazillian team mate who is widely regarded as being fast but slightly inferior.

Doesn't it seem slightly familiar?

If Alonso is obviously quicker than Massa over the first 6 races, then I have no doubt we will end up with a Schumacher situation and then everyone else will have to look out or change to stop the same domination that the German experienced.

Valve Bounce

2nd October 2009, 10:50

No it is not. However, the appointment of Alonso is almost a carbon copy of the beginning of the Schumacher era. Hell, a 2X Renault WDC coming to Ferrari from Renault bringing his own team. A Brazillian team mate who is widely regarded as being fast but slightly inferior.

Doesn't it seem slightly familiar?

If Alonso is obviously quicker than Massa over the first 6 races, then I have no doubt we will end up with a Schumacher situation and then everyone else will have to look out or change to stop the same domination that the German experienced.

You are, of course, expecting Ferrari to dominate the championship sooner rather than later. I know Alonso is good, but he is not that good, and he certainly doesn't have the dominant personality that SchM had. But there again, it's early days, and you could be right!! I certainly didn't think of his arrival at Ferrari in the same way.

havk

2nd October 2009, 11:20

yes, slightly familiar but Schumacher team mate was Eddie Irvine - and his only aim was to help Schumacher and score some points in constructor championship. As far as Alonso and Massa are concerned I think that Alonso would be slightly better. I think Alonso could be as fast as Schumacher, he was really impressive in 2005 and 2006 but as Valve Bounce wrote he doesn't have such a dominant personality. I'd like to see Alonso and Schumacher driving in one team with the same support from the team, would very interesting, as Schumacher was always number one in his teams (maybe without Jordan and first year in Benetton).

harsha

2nd October 2009, 12:37

how long before Alonso starts something up in Ferrari when he doesn't get the treatment that he feels he deserves

Valve Bounce

2nd October 2009, 13:55

how long before Alonso starts something up in Ferrari when he doesn't get the treatment that he feels he deserves

Just after quals in his first race with Ferrari.

Firstgear

2nd October 2009, 14:49

I'd like to see Alonso and Schumacher driving in one team with the same support from the team

You just may get your wish if Massa isn't fit to return, seeing as Schumi was the first choice to fill in for him.

wedge

2nd October 2009, 15:29

The bickering with Alonso after the 2007 German Grand Prix, the little tantrum at China this year, the fact that he relies so heavily on his race engineer for psychological support. Need more?

Alonso started it. He was adamant Massa forced him off the track in Spain and then threw his toys out the pram by claiming Massa barged into him when in fact it was Alonso's banzai move that ensured contact. Massa was only defending himself pre-podium ceremony.

Radio chatter - so you're pointing out that any driver who moans or goes into a strop is childish? Just about every driver has had a good moan via the radio at one time or other.

Its heat of the moment stuff and emotions will run high. Button has been a moaner over the radio all summer regarding tyres but does that constitute childish behaviour? Or how about Fisi at Imola 2005 describing his Renault after a pitstop that it was still sh*t.

Vast majority of drivers need psychological support from their engineers, a select few ie. the greats/special ones don't.

According to Ant, Massa was a crybaby in drivers meeting. Best to keep the bickering behind closed doors than air dirty laundry in public but when push comes to shove I will be intrigued how Alonso will ramp up the pressure on Massa.

Big Ben

2nd October 2009, 21:10

how long before Alonso starts something up in Ferrari when he doesn't get the treatment that he feels he deserves

This is like a commercial. It doesn´t matter it´s been said a thousand times...

It´s quite possible that FA will find himself in a similar situation like at McLaren.. once more he´ll be the outsider

Sleeper

2nd October 2009, 23:13

I reckon that it will be close, but Alonso will have a clear edge on Massa.

I've noticed that a lot of people are saying that it will be like when Raikkonen joined, lots of hype and Massa doing the winning. But I just cant see that happening for the one reason that Alonso and Massa have similar driving styles (very good for car development, they'll both want the same thing) and unlik Kimi, when has Alonso ever looked half arsed at a race. I've seen him over drive and make mistakes (usually trying to make up for a poor car), but not zone out and cruise.

Garry Walker

3rd October 2009, 16:46

but not zone out and cruise.

Give me races where Kimi cruised?

I love it how Massa is counted out already by some.

I will take great enjoyment from making some bets regarding this with some people here later on.

slinkster

3rd October 2009, 16:49

I would love to see Massa wipe the floor with Alonso next year... but sadly, especially with Massa recovering, I suspect Alonso will perform better... It'll be interesting.

Mjfan12

5th October 2009, 03:42

i dont think massa has what it takes to be a dominant champion. sure he came close last year and could have won it. but i have a feeling he's a one hit wonder.

which is not to sound insulting because many greats never came close to the title, but I guess I've been spoiled by Schumi and expect multiple titles.

maybe fred can replicate his example with ferrari again.

isnt renault former benneton? so similar circumstances, would be interesting is history repeats itself.

Garry Walker

6th October 2009, 13:25

i dont think massa has what it takes to be a dominant champion. sure he came close last year and could have won it. but i have a feeling he's a one hit wonder.
.
:rolleyes:

DiegoMartinez

6th October 2009, 19:13

First of all.

No one sit in the farrari's cockpit and make a good racing. both Badoer and Fisichella made poor racings.

I'm Brazilian, My Grandfathers are Spanish, Brazil and Spain racing in the same team is really fantastic.

I believe that in the beginning of the championship Felipe Massa will beat Fernando Alonso.

But I think, Alonso will learn how to drive the Ferrari's Formula One.

gloomyDAY

6th October 2009, 22:52

:rolleyes: You can roll your eyes until they fall out, but the fact of the matter is that Massa has poor defense. Remember Silverstone in 2008? Massa courteously allowed Hamilton to pass him by without a single attempt at defending his position. Massa, especially with Alonso on the same team, will never win the title.

ShiftingGears

7th October 2009, 00:38

Jag_Warrior

7th October 2009, 01:11

Ferrari hired Alonso to be #1 (I would think Alonso got that in writing) so I expect Massa to step in line behind him, just like he did for MS.

I hope he got it in writing. Cause if he didn't, and things don't go (exactly) his way next season, I can see Kleenex signing on as an associate sponsor on Alonso's car. :bigcry:

I think Fernando is the better racer. But I also think that he's somewhat delicate emotionally. I've never been a Massa fan. But I hope that he recovers well, and I hope that he gives Alonso a real run for his money next season.

gloomyDAY

7th October 2009, 01:18

I'm not a fan of la Princesa Alonsita de Asturia, but he's tough to beat.
Massa doesn't have the ability to compete and you must be insane to think they're on equal terms.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Germany?

That defense was piss-weak from Massa.I think it was Germany. Yes, Massa's defense was laughable. Massa did pay back the favor at the Hungarian Grand Prix by passing on the outside of Lewis, but at least Hamilton did his best to defend. Lewis just didn't open the door and let Massa through, also, Felipe had a hell of a start and blitzed both of the McLarens.

MakinenLoeb

7th October 2009, 03:56

i think that fernando will be beating massa at first but massa will bounce back by Spain/Monaco

truefan72

7th October 2009, 07:57

truefan72

7th October 2009, 08:04

I'm not a fan of la Princesa Alonsita de Asturia, but he's tough to beat.
Massa doesn't have the ability to compete and you must be insane to think they're on equal terms.

I think it was Germany. Yes, Massa's defense was laughable. Massa did pay back the favor at the Hungarian Grand Prix by passing on the outside of Lewis, but at least Hamilton did his best to defend. Lewis just didn't open the door and let Massa through, also, Felipe had a hell of a start and blitzed both of the McLarens.
to me first corner passes at the start are a crap shoot. And while they are categorized as a pass, I view them as stat of the race situations in which anything and everything usually happens.
Catching up to a top driver and then passing him during the course of the race for the lead or podium is something that Alonso, Kimi and Hamilton can do, but Massa can;t. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping he comes back strong and gives Alonso some sleepless nights, but if it becomes a dogfight out there, and not just with his teammate, but with the Webber, vettel, Hamilton, Kimi and Kubica, he is likely to loose that fight. As per usual, his only tactic is to get a great qualy and try and lead the race from the start. He is a classic front runner only.

SGWilko

7th October 2009, 13:27

This is like a commercial. It doesn´t matter it´s been said a thousand times...

It´s quite possible that FA will find himself in a similar situation like at McLaren.. once more he´ll be the outsider

That's a good point. Massa is effectively family, along with Schumi. This accident can only have strengthened the bond IMO.

Garry Walker

7th October 2009, 14:05

You can roll your eyes until they fall out, but the fact of the matter is that Massa has poor defense. Remember Silverstone in 2008? Massa courteously allowed Hamilton to pass him by without a single attempt at defending his position. Massa, especially with Alonso on the same team, will never win the title.

Hockhenheim 2008. Yes, I remember.
You can search my posts from that time, I was very critical on Massa that time.
But you remember what happened next race? He overtook Hamilton around the outside with ease and embarrassed him.
But what has what you posted to do with what I rolled my eyes over anyway?

As per usual, his only tactic is to get a great qualy and try and lead the race from the start. He is a classic front runner only.

Wow, how dare Massa try to get a good qualy and lead from the start.

Steve2009

7th October 2009, 16:04

Before Spain last year Massa was writen off as the biggest joke on the grid.
I think that the way he turned his season around was amazing.
Now he's the real goods, and I say F1 is richer for it
I hope he proves me wrong and beats FA
That would truly be amazing :eek:

DiegoMartinez

8th October 2009, 01:17

I hope he got it in writing. Cause if he didn't, and things don't go (exactly) his way next season, I can see Kleenex signing on as an associate sponsor on Alonso's car. :bigcry:

I think Fernando is the better racer. But I also think that he's somewhat delicate emotionally. I've never been a Massa fan. But I hope that he recovers well, and I hope that he gives Alonso a real run for his money next season.

I agree...

Alonso will be stronger than Massa if the team give him all the support...

But although Brazilian be more emotional than Spanish... Massa have emotional stronger than Alonso.

jimakos

9th October 2009, 10:14

I agree...

Alonso will be stronger than Massa if the team give him all the support...

But although Brazilian be more emotional than Spanish... Massa have emotional stronger than Alonso.

I think Massa will be better than Alonso next year!!
The only problem is his accident and how much difficult will be for him to be again in a formula :)