Barichello's future

[Mark]

What is to become of the Brazilian.

Seemingly out of F1 at the start of this season, he's put in a strong championship challenge, and could yet end up as WDC. It would be a travesty of justice if he were to end up without a drive in 2010.

Despite that the rumours suggest that Brawn seem determined to replace him.

[K-Pu]

But why would Brawn want to sack him? That´s what I don´t understand, since the results are clear.

[Sonic]

Doors are closing where ever the guy looks. Brawn clearly don't want him in the car next year - which given the number of times we have heard "Jenson reverted to Rubens set up" this season is IMO madness.

Williams could provide a berth but who knows what engine will be in the back and what kind of car Williams will produce next year.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Stranger things have happened in F1. When Montoya parted ways with McLaren nobody wanted the driver of his ability. Hill was only able to land a drive with a backmarker team after he won the title. And I don't rate Barrichello on par with those two.

[MrJan]

It's crazy that a guy in the sort of form that Rubens has might be out of a job next year while somone like Heikki will still have a seat.

[Ranger]

Publicly criticising his team earlier this year didn't gain him any prospective employers.

I hope he stays at Brawn or goes to Williams. At 37 he clearly still has it.

[Sonic]

Just on the Hill thing.

He had options at Jordan and McLaren only through bad choices did he end up at Arrows.

[woody2goody]

Brawn are effing crazy if they want rid of him.

[Cooper_S]

nah... I say put the winger out to pasture...hopefully without a WDC crown

[keysersoze]

It's crazy that a guy in the sort of form that Rubens has might be out of a job next year while somone like Heikki will still have a seat.

Fear not, as I think Heikke's days in a top car are just about over. He may have a chance at a new team, but he's probably not returning to Renault, as was rumored early on (that's likely to be Kubica's seat) nor to Williams (that's Heidfeld's or Rubens's seat). No way 'Yoter takes him, and we need to see how the BMW scenario shakes out.

[Rudy Tamasz]

It's crazy that a guy in the sort of form that Rubens has might be out of a job next year while somone like Heikki will still have a seat.

'Form' is the key word and it changes from year to year. This year was clearly Rubens' year and he did the best he could. But everybody knows this is/was his swan song and next year he is likely to be just slightly above average in the best case scenario. At 37 he will not get any better. F1 is no NASCAR.

[Mark]

'Form' is the key word and it changes from year to year. This year was clearly Rubens' year and he did the best he could. But everybody knows this is/was his swan song and next year he is likely to be just slightly above average in the best case scenario. At 37 he will not get any better. F1 is no NASCAR.

That may well be the case but I certainly believe in payback, i.e. if you do a good year for a team then they should pay you back by giving you a drive in the following year! Just like Williams failed to do with Hill.

[Knock-on]

That may well be the case but I certainly believe in payback, i.e. if you do a good year for a team then they should pay you back by giving you a drive in the following year! Just like Williams failed to do with Hill.

You know what Mark, I've been thinking about this.

Frank and Pat (along with Newey) built some phernominal cars and I believe (IMHO) had a level of arrogance that they could just make any reasonable driver a WDC by putting them in the car.

Since the Senna accident, they have given away so many drivers that they could have built a team around with Monty being about the last chance they had.

All a bit sad really :(

[keysersoze]

But everybody knows this is/was his swan song and next year he is likely to be just slightly above average in the best case scenario. At 37 he will not get any better. F1 is no NASCAR.

Right now he has won two races and lies 2nd in the championship. He's taken a car that was clearly the best early on and struggled to match Jenson, but was clearly best of the rest. And since Red Bull and McLaren's resurgence, Rubens has had a decided advantage over Button.

So I have to ask: how can you possibly say that he will only be "slightly above average" next year? He's taken a car that throughout the season has had a slight advantage and has pretty much maximized his situation. He hasn't taken an inferior car and raised its level (like Alonso); then again, he hasn't taken a front running car and laid an egg (like Kovalainen).

Given the right car, Rubens is still a great qualifier, and can still win. How on this earth is that "slightly above average?"

Once a driver is a veteran like RB, he doesn't have to "improve," just maximize the car. We've seen this with Fisichella: at Force India, he was totally dialed in, then the next two races at Ferrari he can't get to the car's maximum. This is another extremely talented driver. Same with Kubica: if the car doesn't suit him, Heidfeld (still not a race-winner but also bloody quick) is on his pace.

[Steve2009]

The cello will end up with the US team (if they can field one)

[UltimateDanGTR]

letting rubens go would be a real shame IMO, But i think Ross might not have much of a choice, knowing what mercedes are demanding (ie a german in one car-rosberg) and if no rosberg, no merc engines, and so where does that leave them for engine deals next year?

I think Ross is in a very tough situation, and if rubens is unlucky enough to go, I think Ross will be very sad to have to let him go. and if he does, lets hope he gets a good car next year, although it looks unlikely

[maximilian]

Although all is seemingly fine on the surface, I am sure there are some lasting bruises from Rubens' outbursts against his team earlier this season, which in a different situation of bigger egos may have resulted even in a much earlier dismissal.

If Rosberg is really coming to Brawn with the extended Mercedes involvement, then it makes no sense to keep Rubens, as the marketing package will require WDC Button and young German star and Mercedes wish list stalwart Rosberg. Rosberg is on the rise. While Rubens is still going strong, his years are numbered, nonetheless. Almost anybody could have been runner-up in the WDC this year, given the dominance of the vehicle. Rather than letting him fade out, a young up-comer shows much more promise for building the team's future.

Ferrari are also dropping Kimi, who certainly did well enough to be KEPT, but they like the Santander/Alonso package better in the long term, so they are going for it. Would be ironic if it turns out that Massa isn't quite the same after his return, there would be some major egg on faces for keeping him, and letting Kimi go. Kimi/Alonso would be an awesome line-up. Sorry for being off-topic :p

[rabf1]

"If Rosberg is really coming to Brawn with the extended Mercedes involvement, then it makes NO sense to keep Rubens, as the marketing package will require WDC Button and young German star Rosberg."

I think this is spot on. But what if Rubins won the championship?

[maximilian]

"If Rosberg is really coming to Brawn with the extended Mercedes involvement, then it makes NO sense to keep Rubens, as the marketing package will require WDC Button and young German star Rosberg."

I think this is spot on. But what if Rubins won the championship?
That would surely throw a wrench into things :D I think no one EXPECTS him to win, but yes... it could happen! Or maybe they'd make SURE it DOESN'T happen, in that case... would be easy to do, right? A lil sugar in the tank.... :rolleyes:

[Steve2009]

But what if Rubins won the championship?
He'd retire :)

[MrJan]

That would surely throw a wrench into things :D I think no one EXPECTS him to win, but yes... it could happen! Or maybe they'd make SURE it DOESN'T happen, in that case... would be easy to do, right? A lil sugar in the tank.... :rolleyes:

No one expected the new team to have 2 drivers challenging for the WDC either ;) F1 sometimes pulls off the unxpected.

[Mark]

You know what Mark, I've been thinking about this.

Frank and Pat (along with Newey) built some phernominal cars and I believe (IMHO) had a level of arrogance that they could just make any reasonable driver a WDC by putting them in the car.

Since the Senna accident, they have given away so many drivers that they could have built a team around with Monty being about the last chance they had.

All a bit sad really :(

Absolutely. It was well documented in the press in the mid-90's that Williams' attitude was that a driver was no more important than any other component in the car, and it was certainly their view at the time that the Williams was the best so it didn't really matter who they employed, they would win for them anyway.

It was a long time ago but I still don't like Williams for their actions back then. You don't sack someone who is winning the world championship for you!

Sure, Hill may have been / probably would have been spanked by JV in 1997, but he should have been given the chance to defend his title. Nay, the fans should have been given the opportunity to see it!

[ArrowsFA1]

That may well be the case but I certainly believe in payback, i.e. if you do a good year for a team then they should pay you back by giving you a drive in the following year! Just like Williams failed to do with Hill.
Then again, Hill had a comparatively poor year in 1995 when he had a car that probably should have won the championship. Perhaps he could count himself fortunate to have a second shot at the title in 1996?

I'm a big Damon Hill fan. The man is class. But Williams made their decision based on his 1995 season, not his 1996 title. Had they waited longer to decide on their drivers for 1997 then they probably would have made a different decision, but had they done that then Frentzen may have gone elsewhere, and remember that at the time Frentzen was considered to be a Schumacher-beater.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing :)

[Knock-on]

Ahhhh, hindsight. Never leave home (or log onto a forum) without it.

I don't like Williams because of those decisions but more "inspite" of them. There is something quintessentially British about the team and their ability to shoot themselves in the foot.

Frank and Pat have done a wonderfull job in moulding and grafting the team (teams) that are as much part of the fabric of Motorsport as Ferrari in my book. However, it might be that they have taken it as far as they can and it's time to surrender the reins to the next generation. Perhaps this is what is needed to move the team forward again?

[Mark]

Then again, Hill had a comparatively poor year in 1995 when he had a car that probably should have won the championship. Perhaps he could count himself fortunate to have a second shot at the title in 1996?

I'm a big Damon Hill fan. The man is class. But Williams made their decision based on his 1995 season, not his 1996 title. Had they waited longer to decide on their drivers for 1997 then they probably would have made a different decision, but had they done that then Frentzen may have gone elsewhere, and remember that at the time Frentzen was considered to be a Schumacher-beater.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing :)

Yes, it's often reported that Hill was out of a job after 1995. But Williams could have at least then done the decent thing and announced it before the 1996 season, so everyone knew where they stood.

Instead the told Hill he was fired a few races from the end of the 1996 season when the championship battle was in full flow.

[ArrowsFA1]

Rubens Barrichello is closing in on a deal with Williams for 2010, AUTOSPORT has learned, in a move that could see him swap places with Nico Rosberg.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79043

[Mark]

Williams might be a good choice for him, since they have been steadily getting better. However I still don't see the point of swapping drivers when they are both familiar with their respective teams.

[wedge]

Yes, it's often reported that Hill was out of a job after 1995. But Williams could have at least then done the decent thing and announced it before the 1996 season, so everyone knew where they stood.

Instead the told Hill he was fired a few races from the end of the 1996 season when the championship battle was in full flow.

Never been Williams' style. They want the upper hand and play the pre-Madonna card which was certainly true and forthright in the case of Mansell.

[Dzeidzei]

Williams might be a good choice for him, since they have been steadily getting better. However I still don't see the point of swapping drivers when they are both familiar with their respective teams.

Its not really a swap. Merc wants Nico (as a German and he is half that), so Rubinho has to look elsewhere. Williams wants experience with Hulkenberg. But what they gain in experience, they miss out on raw speed.

[Sonic]

If Rubens ends up at Williams it could really help Hulk adapting to F1. Barrichello is very good at developing a good setup and with 17 years F1 experience I don't think little Nico could want for anything better in a team mate in his first year in the top flight. It will also give us an idea just how quick this lad is.

[keysersoze]

Not a Barrichello fan but with his vast experience--and despite the prejudice on this board against old drivers the man is still blindingly fast--he is the perfect teammate to Hulkenberg. If Rubens can't make the car quick then nobody can (with the obvious exception of Alonso).

Nico has done his bit for the team and has demonstrated his loyalty, and now entering the prime of his career it's time to see if he could be WDC material.

[Garry Walker]

That may well be the case but I certainly believe in payback, i.e. if you do a good year for a team then they should pay you back by giving you a drive in the following year! Just like Williams failed to do with Hill.

Williams didnt owe anything to Hill, they gave him the best car on the grid and you think they should give him more chances when there are better drivers than him? Hill should be thankful that a driver of his quality was given a chance to drive such brilliant cars

[Garry Walker]

You don't sack someone who is winning the world championship for you!


Thats why they sacked Hill, he didnt win the title in 1995.

[Knock-on]

Thats why they sacked Hill, he didnt win the title in 1995.

Looks like we should sack Massa then because although he's been is some superb machinary, he's not won a title.

[woody2goody]

So where does Nakajima go? Thw two likely places IMO are either Williams test driver or Lotus. Maybe Manor have their eye on him too.

Rubens and Nico would do better by staying put. However it would be interesting if Brawn's 2010 car is a dog, and Williams continue thier improvement, and use KERS.

Maybe it's not such a bad deal for Rubens. Plus I think he'll beat Hulkenburg, at least in the German's first season.

[V12]

So where does Nakajima go? Thw two likely places IMO are either Williams test driver or Lotus. Maybe Manor have their eye on him too.

Rubens and Nico would do better by staying put. However it would be interesting if Brawn's 2010 car is a dog, and Williams continue thier improvement, and use KERS.

Maybe it's not such a bad deal for Rubens. Plus I think he'll beat Hulkenburg, at least in the German's first season.

Nakajima was always there because of Toyota. I believe Williams got their engines for free, or if not then very cheap, because they took Nakajima on. There'd be no place for him in a Renault (or anything else)-engined Williams. My bet would be Toyota reserve driver, or maybe even, as a long shot, a race seat, providing Toyota don't quit the sport of course. I wouldn't be totally shocked to see him in a Toyota-engined Formula Nippon car to be honest.

[woody2goody]

Nakajima was always there because of Toyota. I believe Williams got their engines for free, or if not then very cheap, because they took Nakajima on. There'd be no place for him in a Renault (or anything else)-engined Williams. My bet would be Toyota reserve driver, or maybe even, as a long shot, a race seat, providing Toyota don't quit the sport of course. I wouldn't be totally shocked to see him in a Toyota-engined Formula Nippon car to be honest.

It's a shame though because he is a solid driver. However I'd be foolish to say he could handle Barrichello or Hulkenburg.

[Steve2009]

Maybe "The Cello" could go back to the Scudaria for more abuse! :arrows:
Yea that's it :D
Massa could go to Brawn and thump Bunsen. :laugh:

[LiamM]

I have it on very good authority that the on the visit to Grove referred to in the Autosport article Rubens was fitted for a seat

[Dzeidzei]

So where does Nakajima go?

Nakajima will go hiking at Mount Fuji. It´ll take ages to get there, but this time there´s no rush.

[jens]

Good on Barrichello that he is likely to continue his F1 career. I've personally nothing against it. Last year I doubted whether there is any point to hang on with little hope of success, but he has fought hard to keep his drive, been really motivated and has had the patience to wait for another real opportunity. I admire his dedication to keep pushing at the top level to silence those, who keep saying, how drivers in certain age should bow out.

From Williams' perspective I think I would have taken Heidfeld over Barrichello, but I don't know the background, maybe Nick wanted to stay with Sauber.

[LiamM]

Personally I'd like him to retire, through no reason except that I want him to finally write his book!

[keysersoze]

Saint Devote will be ticked to hear the news so I support Rubens' continued employment in F1. :D

[macksrallye]

I think it could be a good move for both Williams and Rubens. Rubens is obviousally good at setting up a car & therefore must give good feedback for development of the car. This could help Williams start their climb back up the F1 ladder.
For Rubens, he is as good as past the point of seriousally challenging for a WDC (although still quick on his day) so he has the chance (should he choose to accept it) to help a young up & comer climb to the top of the F1 tree. Lets face it Hulkenberg has bundles of talent and with some guidence from someone like Rubens we could have a star in the making.

[woody2goody]

I think it could be a good move for both Williams and Rubens. Rubens is obviousally good at setting up a car & therefore must give good feedback for development of the car. This could help Williams start their climb back up the F1 ladder.
For Rubens, he is as good as past the point of seriousally challenging for a WDC (although still quick on his day) so he has the chance (should he choose to accept it) to help a young up & comer climb to the top of the F1 tree. Lets face it Hulkenberg has bundles of talent and with some guidence from someone like Rubens we could have a star in the making.

It should be a good combination, and I reckon having Nico (Hulk) in the team will spur on Rubens to fight hard.

I really hope Williams will build a good car. I think Hulkenburg will be really good, but Rubens should beat him in his rookie year.

[Hondo]

Personally I'd like him to retire, through no reason except that I want him to finally write his book!

I wouldn't mind seeing him win the WDC this year, but a bitter man writes a better book.

[Knock-on]

I wouldn't mind seeing him win the WDC this year, but a bitter man writes a better book.

I have no doubt that one day we will get a "warts 'n' all" book in F1 and it just needs one bitter man to do it.

If Flav puts pen to paper it might be a bit slanted but open the floodgates on the Pirrana club for others in a similar way to what Bravo Two Zero did for the SAS.

Where there's muck, there's money and there's a lot of money in F1 :D

[jens]

It should be a good combination, and I reckon having Nico (Hulk) in the team will spur on Rubens to fight hard.

I really hope Williams will build a good car. I think Hulkenburg will be really good, but Rubens should beat him in his rookie year.

Welcome back, woody2goody! :D How did you enjoy your "vacation"? :)

About Rubens vs Nico2...
Well, looking at recent years those experienced "oldies" have been good benchmarks for youngsters, which is really defining for newcomers, because they have to at least match them to prolong their careers. ;) Klien got beaten by Coulthard and was sent out of F1; Sutil hasn't been too convincing against Fisi, but it looks like he will keep his seat; Glock has about matched Trulli and could have a proper F1 career.

I rate 'Hulk' very highly and if he is really more talented than the mentioned blokes above (well, at least I guess so :D ), I think he should be capable of at least matching, if not beating, Barrichello already on his debut season.

[Knock-on]

Welcome back, woody2goody! :D How did you enjoy your "vacation"? :)



Seconded :up:

Now, who did I have that £10 bet with. Have forgotten now but wanted it to go to Charity.

Anyone remember?

From now on, lets keep bets to money or Sigs. It's horrid losing someone with such a good Sig :D

[ClarkFan]

Then again, Hill had a comparatively poor year in 1995 when he had a car that probably should have won the championship. Perhaps he could count himself fortunate to have a second shot at the title in 1996?

I'm a big Damon Hill fan. The man is class. But Williams made their decision based on his 1995 season, not his 1996 title. Had they waited longer to decide on their drivers for 1997 then they probably would have made a different decision, but had they done that then Frentzen may have gone elsewhere, and remember that at the time Frentzen was considered to be a Schumacher-beater.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing :)
Williams had an exaggerated view on the speed of their 1995 car. Once Benetton got Renault engines, they were essentially a match for Williams (Herbert won 2 races, too). MS beat Hill, sure, but Williams seriously over-estimated how much of an advantage they gave Hill. And once he left, they got one good year in off his set-up work and have struggled since.

ClarkFan

[HenryM]

"There is more to talk or negotiate with A or B. With or without the world title this season, Rubens Barrichello leaves Brawn after the GP of Abu Dhabi. The Grand Prix can confirm that the Brazilian will be the Williams driver in 2010.

Barrichello hit his trip for a year for the team grove at the end of the week's Italian Grand Prix, won by him, inclusive. The official announcement will be made, probably this week, before the GP of Brazil.

Your partner should be the German Nico Hülkenberg, current GP2 champion and pilot testing of the team. Hülkenberg business is by Willi Weber, who has looked forward to promoting his pupil. Weber also handled the Michael Schumacher. Barrichello will serve both as team leader and with a kind of "teacher" for the 22 years."



http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=pt-BR&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fesporte.ig.com.br%2Fgrandepremio%2F formula1%2F2009%2F10%2F11%2Fexclusivo%2Bbarrichell o%2Bassina%2Bcontrato%2Bpara%2Bcorrer%2Bpela%2Bwil liams%2Bem%2B2010%2B8797132.html&sl=pt&tl=en&history_state0=&swap=1

[Saint Devote]

Youth and nationality are the only reasons for a Mercedes dictate to hire Rosberg. There is absolutely no reason to have high confidence that the German driver will be able to even replicate the Barrichello's 2009 season - including the period while his crew were trying to solve the brake feel issue that diminished his first part of the season.

Ross Brawn himself said that it was a very unusual start and it was not Rubens but technical issues that hampered Barrichello.

If Rubens were to win the championship I do not think he would retire, but race for the first time with an abandon and happiness he never had before. The championship would be won and all he had to do for one more year would be to go out there and win every race he could - the end!

Similarly I think that WHEN Jenson wins, it will complete a circle and elimiante a frustration and he too will finally be able to go out there and just RACE!

[Saint Devote]

If Rosberg does leave Williams will it be as the team makes good once again? Nobody expects Mclaren or Brawn to make a problematic car in 2010 but strange things happen in motor racing too.

Also, with Hamilton at Mclaren or Button at Brawn, if Rosberg does not shape up, he will destroy his reputation as a top line driver as he did at Singapore.