should there be a distinction? (White line exiting the pits)

[Sonic]

With regards to the white line on pit exit. Should accidental and deliberate/lazy crossing of the mark be treated the same?

As I remember it this rule came about largely because of drivers exiting the pits and pulling straight onto the racing line (MS at canada springs to mind), but my question to you is should the punishment be the same regardless of circumstance? I think we'd all agree that rosberg didn't intend to cross the line and futher I think we'd all say he lost a heap of time by regaining the pit exit road. Is that punishment enough or should a drive through be applied to one and all regardless.

Be interested in your thoughts.

[SGWilko]

With regards to the white line on pit exit. Should accidental and deliberate/lazy crossing of the mark be treated the same?

As I remember it this rule came about largely because of drivers exiting the pits and pulling straight onto the racing line (MS at canada springs to mind), but my question to you is should the punishment be the same regardless of circumstance? I think we'd all agree that rosberg didn't intend to cross the line and futher I think we'd all say he lost a heap of time by regaining the pit exit road. Is that punishment enough or should a drive through be applied to one and all regardless.

Be interested in your thoughts.

Can you imageine a driver/team admitting to a deliberate line cross?

Wont work, keep the rule as it is.

[keysersoze]

I remember when Gerhard Berger exited the pits, stood on the gas, and the car immediately got away from him and he shot left across the track and shunted himself (hard!) out of the race. It may have been Portugal, perhaps Spain. Fortunately, he was unhurt.

Then Zanardi did it in a CART race and we all know how that turned out.

I guess they need some sort of way to contain the drivers--for their own safety.

[Sonic]

I remember when Gerhard Berger exited the pits, stood on the gas, and the car immediately got away from him and he shot left across the track and shunted himself (hard!) out of the race. It may have been Portugal, perhaps Spain. Fortunately, he was unhurt.

Then Zanardi did it in a CART race and we all know how that turned out.

I guess they need some sort of way to contain the drivers--for their own safety.

Yeah that was Portugal 1993 I believe.

The general thoughts here echo my own - either punish all equally or don't.

As keysersoze points out back in the good old days their was a nice metal barrier waiting to welcome the stupis or useless (Adelaide '95 anyone? :D ). I hadn't realised before but Mart Brundle mentioned the pit exit is a tunnel in Abu.......could be, err, fun! ;)

[christophulus]

It's one of the few black and white rules the FIA have, along with the pitlane speeding, so it should always be punished regardless of whether it was an accident or not. Otherwise it'd open to a panel to decide if it was dangerous/gained an advantage.. that'd be painful!

Both Rosberg and Vettel's punishments were rightly given, but I think a drive-through is the wrong way to deal with it, it's just too arbitrary and can allow some to get away with no penalty (Webber, Germany), or ruin someone's race depending on a safety car.

I'm in favour of time penalties being added at the end of the race - a safety car just messes things up. The stewards need more flexibility in what punishments they can hand out, but first they'd have to prove they were impartial, sensible and above all, consistent! Anyone see that happening?

[MrJan]

It's a safety issue so crossing the line is dangerous no matter if you mean it or not. Rosberg was going too fast for the corner and could have caused a terrible accident if someone had been going through turn one.

Mistake or not it is a rule which has no grey area and that is exactly how it should remain.

[Knock-on]

I echo the other opinions here. It's pretty black and white no matter what the reason.

Either that or next it will be letting people off pit lane speeding because they ment to slow down but just made a mistake and were a bit late.

Or what about going off track and using run off areas "by mistake" to overtake during the start of a race and then rejoining.

Hang on a minute, they already let that one go so perhaps if a Ferrari crosses the line then it will be ignored if it's a "mistake" :laugh:

[Steve2009]

The Singapore pit out is a little odd in that it has a radius that diminishes quite abruptly as the drivers start to accelerate!
Of course they know this and need to drive the exit they are given.
On cold tires, and a driver with a lot of other information to process I could see how it could be a problem! These are things the drivers have to be aware of, and it must be discussed in safety meetings.
Having said that; rules are rules. I suspect that configuration of the pit out is there to not let the drivers meld to quickly as it is a rather fast area of the course. MHO Nico deserved the penalty!
BTW I can’t wait for Suzuka A “proper" F1 course :bandit: :s mokin: :p :

[CNR]

they would have no way of geting up to speed
WHAT IF you could come from the pit lane to the fast lane ? :s kull: :bomb: :angryfire

[penagate]

Does anyone else feel the pit lane at Marina Bay is on the wrong side of the track? Both entrance and exit are awkward. The exit would be a lot more straightforward if it simply went around the outside of turns 1 and 2, and then blended in to the race line through 3.

Of course, it may not be practical to put it on the other side of the road. (I haven't seen a decent picture or map of the area around it.)

[Dave B]

Any driver good enough to be in F1 should be able to keep his car inside a white line. It's a simple binary rule, and should remain as such, otherwise who gets the job of deciding whether it was accidental? There's enough inconsistency from the stewards and the FIA as it is, without adding yet another variable.

[Roamy]

the white line is to protect the merge - so i would suspect and world class driver to stay within the lines

[truefan72]

It's a safety issue so crossing the line is dangerous no matter if you mean it or not. Rosberg was going too fast for the corner and could have caused a terrible accident if someone had been going through turn one.

Mistake or not it is a rule which has no grey area and that is exactly how it should remain.


Its a solid rule and should stay in place. One of the few that cannot be subjected to the FIA marshal's whims or biased interpretation.

To me the stupid rule was having Webber give up 2 spots because alonso got passed. So if alonso made a slight error (which he did) and 4 cars passed him, should Webber have to give up 4 spots?

you are supposed to give up the grid spot gained not who you passed.

[truefan72]

The Singapore pit out is a little odd in that it has a radius that diminishes quite abruptly as the drivers start to accelerate!
Of course they know this and need to drive the exit they are given.
On cold tires, and a driver with a lot of other information to process I could see how it could be a problem! These are things the drivers have to be aware of, and it must be discussed in safety meetings.
Having said that; rules are rules. I suspect that configuration of the pit out is there to not let the drivers meld to quickly as it is a rather fast area of the course. MHO Nico deserved the penalty!
BTW I can’t wait for Suzuka A “proper" F1 course :bandit: :s mokin: :p :

not one single problem in qualiy, Free practice 1,2,or3 or by any other driver in the race including Rosberg's 2nd stop so I doubt that there is anything wrong with the pit exit in Singapore.

[SGWilko]

To me the stupid rule was having Webber give up 2 spots because alonso got passed. So if alonso made a slight error (which he did) and 4 cars passed him, should Webber have to give up 4 spots?

Webber should have told his team - and the FIA by way of the radio communication - that he will gladly let Alonso by, once Alonso re-passes the Toyota. I think that would be more than fair.

[Steve2009]

not one single problem in qualiy, Free practice 1,2,or3 or by any other driver in the race including Rosberg's 2nd stop so I doubt that there is anything wrong with the pit exit in Singapore.
Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me :confused:
Just an observation dude ;)

[Knock-on]

Webber should have told his team - and the FIA by way of the radio communication - that he will gladly let Alonso by, once Alonso re-passes the Toyota. I think that would be more than fair.

And the team would be told by the FIA not to worry and just to do a drive through :)

[Sonic]

not one single problem in qualiy, Free practice 1,2,or3 or by any other driver in the race including Rosberg's 2nd stop so I doubt that there is anything wrong with the pit exit in Singapore.

Not sure anyone was on it exiting the pits all weekend until the race. Almost everyone I saw pulled over and did a practice start or trickled out slowly so race day was the first time anyone pushed.

As it goes I agree there isn't a problem with the exit lane; in fact even when Rosberg fell off he was still a good two car widths from the standard racing line.

[MrJan]

To me the stupid rule was having Webber give up 2 spots because alonso got passed. So if alonso made a slight error (which he did) and 4 cars passed him, should Webber have to give up 4 spots?

you are supposed to give up the grid spot gained not who you passed.

Who made that choice though? All I heard was RBR giving him the order, nothing about the stewards investigating it or asking him to move over. As far as I'm aware it was RBR who made the balls up by telling their driver to drop back

[AndyL]

I'm in favour of time penalties being added at the end of the race - a safety car just messes things up. The stewards need more flexibility in what punishments they can hand out, but first they'd have to prove they were impartial, sensible and above all, consistent! Anyone see that happening?

Time penalties at the end can be messed up by a safety car too - IIRC there was someone earlier this season who got a 25 second penalty added on, and because the race finished with the field bunched up either under the safety car or just after one, it cost them a disproportionate number of places. Perhaps a penalty of a certain number of places rather than time would be fairer.

I agree that in general the lack of flexibility in punishments is a problem. Particularly when it comes to collisions where the degree of blame is down to a judgement call. But for clearly defined infringements like crossing the blend line or pit lane speeding I think it's right that there's a single, pre-defined penalty.

[AndyL]

Does anyone else feel the pit lane at Marina Bay is on the wrong side of the track? Both entrance and exit are awkward. The exit would be a lot more straightforward if it simply went around the outside of turns 1 and 2, and then blended in to the race line through 3.

Of course, it may not be practical to put it on the other side of the road. (I haven't seen a decent picture or map of the area around it.)

ISTR someone on the BBC coverage saying that there wasn't sufficient space outside the track. So it's a necessary compromise I guess.
At least the entry has been improved from last year. Maybe they'll change things again for 2010.

[Sonic]

Maybe they'll change things again for 2010.

Oh gods! I forgot we are going back to that borefest next year. :(

[wedge]

not one single problem in qualiy, Free practice 1,2,or3 or by any other driver in the race including Rosberg's 2nd stop so I doubt that there is anything wrong with the pit exit in Singapore.

Different under race conditions when your out-lap is just as important as your in-lap.


Does anyone else feel the pit lane at Marina Bay is on the wrong side of the track? Both entrance and exit are awkward. The exit would be a lot more straightforward if it simply went around the outside of turns 1 and 2, and then blended in to the race line through 3.

Of course, it may not be practical to put it on the other side of the road. (I haven't seen a decent picture or map of the area around it.)

Agree perhaps they should bypass the first few corners and blend into the back section.

Must be the most awkward pit exit I've seen, the pit entry and exit are the wrong way round.

At some tracks there's armco that would've stopped Rosberg - Silverstone, Interlagos.

I think its a bit of a grey area. You can go off Canada at return onto the track and not pick up a penalty but go off by error/accident over the blend line and you pick up a drive thru.

Didn't Alonso escape a penalty last year at Hockenheim because he was about to trip over a Red Bull car?

[Robinho]

its an absolute offence, you go over the line, you are punished. the only way i could see you getting away with it is if you were punted over the line by someone else

[Mark]

The drivers have plenty of time to practice coming in and out of the pits at racing speed, so they should be able to handle staying within a white line. Mistake or not, transgressions should be punished.

I remember one race a driver (was it Ralf?) was given a penalty because his back wheels just clipped the very end of the line.

[SGWilko]

(was it Ralf?)

Probably... ;)

[Knock-on]

When my arse could fit in a cart (many moons ago) we used to get pulled in if we clipped the line, either exiting or just driving around. Sometimes, if someone transgressed more than once, the Teward would pull him in, stick his foot on the front of the cart and watch the race for 5 mins.

Perhaps Charlie should do that?

[ArrowsFA1]

...if someone transgressed more than once, the Teward would pull him in, stick his foot on the front of the cart and watch the race for 5 mins.

Perhaps Charlie should do that?
:laugh: :up:

[Sonic]

Hey, who changed my thread title??

[Sonic]

When my arse could fit in a cart (many moons ago) we used to get pulled in if we clipped the line, either exiting or just driving around. Sometimes, if someone transgressed more than once, the Teward would pull him in, stick his foot on the front of the cart and watch the race for 5 mins.

Perhaps Charlie should do that?

Used to do much the same myself. Pull a punter in for driving like a tit and if they argued their point just let them sit there ranting whilst the clock ran down. :D Ahhhh happy days

[SGWilko]

Perhaps Charlie should do that?

Easy now, read a stopwatch and keep an eye on the race at the same time....??? ;)

[Knock-on]

Used to do much the same myself. Pull a punter in for driving like a tit and if they argued their point just let them sit there ranting whilst the clock ran down. :D Ahhhh happy days

I was not driving like a tit I'll have you know. It was just that some of the corners were too narrow for my talent and couldn't contain me :p