Ferrari set to confirm Alonso at Suzuka

[Giuseppe F1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78995

Ferrari set to confirm Alonso for 2010
By Jonathan Noble
Sunday, September 27th 2009, 18:40 GMT

Ferrari could announce its 2010 deal with Fernando Alonso as early as next weekend's Japanese Grand Prix, with the Spaniard's move to the Maranello team now all but confirmed.

With lawyers working hard on the last few details of Kimi Raikkonen's release from his contract with Ferrari, a move that will pave the way for the Finn to return to McLaren, the Maranello-based outfit has openly admitted that it wants to announce its line-up as quickly as possible.

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said at Singapore on Sunday night: "I think that as soon as we are ready we will let you know. We don't want to wait too long."

When asked by AUTOSPORT if that announcement could come as early as Suzuka, Domenicali said: "It is a possibility, but it is not guaranteed."

Neither Ferrari nor Renault are now denying that Alonso is on his way to the Italian outfit, in a deal that has been widely predicted for several months.

Renault's stand-in managing director Jean-Francois Caubet told AUTOSPORT after the Singapore Grand Prix that his outfit would be sad to see Alonso leave after this season.

"I think Fernando will miss Renault and Renault will miss Fernando," he explained.

Once the Ferrari-Alonso announcement is made, Renault is expected to confirm that Polish driver Robert Kubica will lead its team in 2010.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I heard somewhere that Raikkonen's severence deal involves him receiving:

- His full salary for 2010
- His full points bonuses for any points scored for his new team
- An extra bonus if Alonso wins the title

Plus whatever money his new employers pay him.

If this is true the Robertsons must be the shrewdest operators in the pitlane.

[Jag_Warrior]

And a cheating scandal will engulf Ferrari within X months of his arrival.

Predict "X" and win a prize.

:D

[N. Jones]

Would this mean the Kimi-to-McLaren rumors will get stronger?

[gloomyDAY]

And a cheating scandal will engulf Ferrari within X months of his arrival.

Predict "X" and win a prize.

:D :rotflmao:

Excellent!

[Daniel]

I hope if Kimi is leaving Ferrari that he goes rallying. Would be great if he became a fulltime Abarth driver.

[Firstgear]

- An extra bonus if Alonso wins the title

If Kimi ends up driving for another F1 team, this could become a potential/perceived conflict of interest.

[Saint Devote]

I hope if Kimi is leaving Ferrari that he goes rallying. Would be great if he became a fulltime Abarth driver.

No, Raikkonen has unfinished business in formula 1 namely resoundly beating the team that has always worked against him in some way, Ferrari.

And between him and Hamilton if he goes to Mclaren, he can do it.

Personally I would much rather see him at Brawn Grand Prix. They are it seems the rising Mercedes technology team and with the best strategist in the business he would flourish.

Let Rosberg go to Mclaren if he wants and try to deal with Hamilton. Hamilton does not care who his teammate is but Rosberg will be overshadowed by the Brit. He should stay at Williams.

[Jag_Warrior]

If Nico wants to ever be in a car & team capable of winning the WDC, he has to leave Williams. And next year is as good a time as any.

[Boudica]

Whithmarsh's reaction when asked if Kimi was going to Mclaren was very interesting:

http://www.viddler.com/explore/juniperberry/videos/60/

Haug would welcome Kimi back at Mclaren:
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/09/962919


Kimi has said himself he will be driving in F1 next year, if not with Ferrari then with someone else. Kimi still has a few years in him, it would be to early to leave for rallying. Alonso's deal is now all but confirmed.

[F1boat]

I can't wait to see confirmation of the moves within the teams! Who do you think will be the most interesting duel within a team:
Kimi vs Lewis
Fred vs Felipe
Jenson vs Nico

[Daniel]

No, Raikkonen has unfinished business in formula 1 namely resoundly beating the team that has always worked against him in some way, Ferrari.

And between him and Hamilton if he goes to Mclaren, he can do it.

Personally I would much rather see him at Brawn Grand Prix. They are it seems the rising Mercedes technology team and with the best strategist in the business he would flourish.

Let Rosberg go to Mclaren if he wants and try to deal with Hamilton. Hamilton does not care who his teammate is but Rosberg will be overshadowed by the Brit. He should stay at Williams.
Errrrr no.

I hope if Kimi is leaving Ferrari that he goes rallying. Would be great if he became a fulltime Abarth driver.

[F1boat]

But Kimi has said that he wants to drive in F1!

[Daniel]

But Kimi has said that he wants to drive in F1!
and I want to see him in the WRC/IRC. Are we going to have an argument over what my opinion is because I'm quite sure of what I'd like to happen :)

[F1boat]

Ferrari does not deserve him. They humiliated him, replacing him despite the WDC and the great Spa win this season, despite him fighting alone against the McLaren in the WCC. So even if I love the crimson legend, my heart can not be with current Ferrari team. I hope that Kimi will stay in F1 and will beat them.

[leopard]

The last races result tell us that currently Ferrari is in need of driver who have ability to bring the team back to the walk of fame, and Singapore result is indication that Alonso is not the wrong person, amid condition of team which suffers from internal problem and sponsor withdrawal. Performance of either NPJr or Romain Grosjean looked like facts to strengthen opinion that the choice is supposed to go to Alonso.

Kimi is not bad choice, On Massa's leave he can show us that he is better significantly than Badoer of Fisichella.

The decision is up to the team, if they want ones who can work together with team to perform high series of tests developing car and team Alonso-Massa perhaps a good combination. If they want ones with talent and proven champion degree, Kimi-Alonso is not a bad choice. Kimi has been brought up to the level of good compromise to support someone if need be.
Or they can stay in conventional manner with this year's drivers formation.

I think the first option sounds more popular than the rest two. just IMO

[Mark]

- His full salary for 2010
- His full points bonuses for any points scored for his new team


Fair enough.



- An extra bonus if Alonso wins the title


That's not good. If Kimi is driving for McLaren and lets say Hamilton is challenging for the title against Alonso in the Ferrari. It would be in Kimi's financial interests to work against his own team mate.

[Daniel]

It's only speculation that he'll get paid if Alonso gets a title.

[Knock-on]

Ferrari does not deserve him. They humiliated him, replacing him despite the WDC and the great Spa win this season, despite him fighting alone against the McLaren in the WCC. So even if I love the crimson legend, my heart can not be with current Ferrari team. I hope that Kimi will stay in F1 and will beat them.

Totally agree with you mate :up:

I think it's shamefull how Kimi has been mishandled by the team.

This is a Ferrari WDC and the man that has fought as hard as anyone to get results for the team since Massa's incident. He has kept his head, not spoken out and got on with the job. He has had new team mates come in and obliterated them which is all you can ask from a driver.

Welcome home Kimi, you prefer the temp of Chertsey over Itally ;)



That's not good. If Kimi is driving for McLaren and lets say Hamilton is challenging for the title against Alonso in the Ferrari. It would be in Kimi's financial interests to work against his own team mate.

I don't think it's money that will motivate Kimi. In fact, if he had to win the last race of the season to deny Alonso the title, I expect he would :D

[harsha]

when the team has been developing upgrades that suit Massa's style more than Kimi's driving style...why would kimi want to stay on in such a team...

if i remember , he and his management team have had to ask Stefano Domencalli to let him run the older version of the car.

[Mark]

Of course it now means I can stop liking Alonso :p

[harsha]

You're right, and the outcome hopefully will please everyone involved. Ferrari fans want Alonso, and Mclaren fans want Kimi. There is a rumoured rift between Domenicalli and Kimi, so there's obviously a problem. Kimi is better off going from one title contender to another IMO.. :)

and i can't imagine one more driver who would be a gentleman like Kimi ....every other driver would be washing the dirty linen in public...

[DexDexter]

Errrrr no.

I hope if Kimi is leaving Ferrari that he goes rallying. Would be great if he became a fulltime Abarth driver.

He will drive for Mclaren.

[Daniel]

He will drive for Mclaren.
Yes but......

I hope if Kimi is leaving Ferrari that he goes rallying. Would be great if he became a fulltime Abarth driver.

How many times do I need to repeat myself? :confused:

[AndyL]

I can't wait to see confirmation of the moves within the teams! Who do you think will be the most interesting duel within a team:
Kimi vs Lewis
Fred vs Felipe
Jenson vs Nico

They would all be fantastic battles. Probably the least awesome will be Fred vs Felipe, I reckon Fred will have the beating of Felipe. At least a couple of those have the potential to cause strife within a team the way Lewis vs Fred did. I think Lewis and Nico would actually be better for McLaren, though not for Nico.

Oh and this story on Eurosport has a couple of quotes from Alonso and Renault:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/28092009/58/alonso-decision-already-made.html

[BeansBeansBeans]

Yes but......

I hope if Kimi is leaving Ferrari that he goes rallying. Would be great if he became a fulltime Abarth driver.

How many times do I need to repeat myself? :confused:

Hmm, I still reckon a McLaren F1 drive is more likely.

[DexDexter]

Hmm, I still reckon a McLaren F1 drive is more likely.

But he (the poster) wants rallying :rolleyes:

[Knock-on]

But he (the poster) wants rallying :rolleyes:

I want to win the lottery but it aint gonna happen :D

Actually, if things work out as expected, then we will finally get a good idea of who is actually the best out there.

Alonso vs Lewis at McL was pretty even but that was Lewis's rookie year.
Alonso not tested at Renault so no score.
Lewis not tested by Kovy so no score.
Kimi Vs Massa was pretty even again.
Rubens Vs Jenson was advantage Jenson.
Rubens Vs MS was advantage MS.

So, from only being able to compare team mates, we can start to compare across teams.

IF Massa beats Alonso then Alonso isn't as good as we all think. However, IF Alonso beats Massa, then you have to conclude that Alonso is better then Kimi and Massa.

Then...

IF Lewis beats Kimi then you have to say that he is better than Kimi and Massa who are pretty evenly matched at this stage of their careers. However, IFKimi beats Lewis then you can conclude that Massa and Kimi are better than Lewis and depending on the Ferrari result, perhaps Alonso as well.

I personally think Alonso will triumph at Ferrari and Lewis at McLaren confirming my view that they are the best 2 drivers out there with Jenson, Kimi and Massa being slightly behind.

Then... all we have to do is have a guess about Jenson. We could really do with Nico moving to one of the other teams in 2011 or Jenson joining one of the other top drivers to get a realistic perspective.

[Mark]

IRubens Vs Jenson was advantage Jenson.


Really? I'd say they were pretty even.

[jens]

Yeah, it looks like we will see a lot of interesting team-mate battles next year and what else could an F1 fan hope for? :) FM vs FA and LH vs KR are great without saying, but others are worth mentioning too.

Button vs Rosberg. For the first time since 2006 Nico finally gets a proper team-mate to evaluate, how good he really is. On the other hand after many years alongside Rubens Button finally gets a younger team-mate, who aims to become a team leader himself. Button will have to drive hard to prove he is a worthy champion. Also Barrichello vs Hülkenberg. An old hand against a young rising star. Maybe Grosjean can harness his talent and give Kubica a run for his money. And it remains to be seen, who might partner Heidfeld at Qadbak. Vettel vs Webber vol2 could be close as well. :)

Whereas for 2009 only two teams (RBR/STR) changed their line-ups, it could well be that those teams are the only ones, who will not change their line-ups for 2010. :p : With a possible addition of Force India.

[Knock-on]

Really? I'd say they were pretty even.

I don't know how anyone claims that.

6 wins to 2?
4 poles to 0
84 points to 69

Hell, he's scored over 20% more points than Rubens where the difference between 1st and second is only 2 points which makes it even more impressive.

In equal machinery Jenson has comprehensivly blown him away. OK, you might have an opinion that Rubens is having a great year and I would agree but the results are what matters.

[jens]

In equal machinery Jenson has comprehensivly blown him away.

84-69 with Rubens having suffered a bit more unluck than Jenson so far this season is not "blowing away". For instance Alonso vs Fisichella in 2006 (134-72) is something that is closer to a description of "blowing away".

[BeansBeansBeans]

Really? I'd say they were pretty even.

There have been times when Rubens has had the upper hand during their time as team-mates, but overall Button has come out well on top.

[BeansBeansBeans]

84-69 with Rubens having suffered a bit more unluck than Jenson so far this season is not "blowing away". For instance Alonso vs Fisichella in 2006 (134-72) is something that is closer to a description of "blowing away".

Maybe 'blowing away' is the wrong phrase, but so is 'pretty even' in my opinion.

[jens]

Maybe 'blowing away' is the wrong phrase, but so is 'pretty even' in my opinion.

I would take a bit longer perspective in evaluating this pairing and considering that in 2007 and 2008 JB and RB were quite close too, it can be concluded there is little between them. Maybe Button can be given a slight preference, but only a slight one.

It looks like some are trying to make Button look like Schumi by saying that "Barrichello is driving better than ever and Button is blowing him away". Sorry, Button is no MS and one shouldn't be actually ashamed of this knowledge - there are barely any drivers that can be evaluated by his standards.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I would take a bit longer perspective in evaluating this pairing and considering that in 2007 and 2008 JB and RB were quite close too, it can be concluded there is little between them. Maybe Button can be given a slight preference, but only a slight one.

There is more than a slight difference. Button's seven victories to Barrichello's two makes that fairly clear.

[Bagwan]

Alonso vs Lewis at McL was pretty even but that was Lewis's rookie year.
Alonso not tested at Renault so no score.
Lewis not tested by Kovy so no score.
Kimi Vs Massa was pretty even again.
Rubens Vs Jenson was advantage Jenson.
Rubens Vs MS was advantage MS.


That's a pretty simplistic view of those battles .

Lewis was advantaged , and Alonso managed to match him .
Alonso was advantaged at Renault .
Lewis was then #1 at Mac over Heikki .
Massa was advantaged and Kimi matched him .
Jensen was advantaged and Rubens sorted the brakes and is better now .
MS was #1 at Ferrari .

So , Alonso is better than Lewis , and Rubens , better than Jensen .

No surprises here . Teams runs one driver , and one back-up .

It's pretty difficult to answer who's best , really , in the only situation that seems to make sense , the times they drive the same car in the same race .

In the farcical days of fuel burning , it was most farcical at McLaren , where the 2 drivers would alternate having the advantage , and fight over it .

Teams chose a driver to support as #1 . Sometimes , if they chose the right guy , and the other guy doesn't mind , it all works out , and they end up ahead .
But , sometimes things don't go as planned .

In any case , beating your team-mate isn't always all your own doing .

[rabf1]

My thoughts:

1. I would LOVE it if Massa is faster than Fred. I don't see why Ferrari is so infatuated with Fred. My guess is that he wrecks the team.

2. Kimi will have a better shot with Mac than he would with Ferrari. I bet Hamilton is already crapping his pants.

[donKey jote]

Of course it now means I can stop liking Alonso :p

And I'm going to have to start liking Ferrari :s :p

[Nate_ST]

Any interview I see with Kimi and they ask him if Ferrari is his ultimate dream ride in F1, Kimi always says that he really just wants to be with whoever has the best car or the best team. Where as most drivers will just say flat out that Ferrari is what they want in life. I like Kimi and I don't think he deserves to lose his Ferrari ride, but I'm an Alonso fan first and I will love to see him in red.

[Steve2009]

My thoughts:

1. I would LOVE it if Massa is faster than Fred. I don't see why Ferrari is so infatuated with Fred. My guess is that he wrecks the team.
And if "Fred" beats the pants off Massa it will be because Massa actually was labotomized by his accident, thus a perfect #2 :dozey:


And I'm going to have to start liking Ferrari :laugh:

Hail Caesar
http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20061029elpepudep_3/XLCO/Ies/Fernando_Alonso_recibe_calor_Oviedo.jpghus

[airshifter]

My thoughts:

1. I would LOVE it if Massa is faster than Fred. I don't see why Ferrari is so infatuated with Fred. My guess is that he wrecks the team.

2. Kimi will have a better shot with Mac than he would with Ferrari. I bet Hamilton is already crapping his pants.

Assuming Felipe makes a complete recovery (and I hope he does) I fully expect Alonso to be whining very quickly as Massa beats him on a regular basis. Similar to the situation with Lewis, he will expect preferential treatment and not get it. Should be great for morale at Ferrari. :laugh:

I think Lewis and Kimi will battle hard. Kimi was gifted his WDC by the error of Lewis, and I don't think Lewis will make that mistake again.

[Ranger]

No, Raikkonen has unfinished business in formula 1 namely resoundly beating the team that has always worked against him in some way, Ferrari.


Ferrari does not deserve him. They humiliated him, replacing him despite the WDC and the great Spa win this season, despite him fighting alone against the McLaren in the WCC. So even if I love the crimson legend, my heart can not be with current Ferrari team. I hope that Kimi will stay in F1 and will beat them.

Ferrari made Kimi the highest paid F1 driver on the grid with results that fall very short of the $60 million+ pricetag.

So please, quit the victim mentality.

[DexDexter]

Ferrari made Kimi the highest paid F1 driver on the grid with results that fall very short of the $60 million+ pricetag.

So please, quit the victim mentality.

Yep, one WDC out of possible two. :)

[Roamy]

if alonso doesn't get a lot of testing then I expect massa will be faster to start. But Fred will come good and we will get a good comparison. Don't underrate Massa. He has beat the best - But Fred is tough!!

[Ranger]

Yep, one WDC out of possible two. :)

And getting beaten by his team-mate two years out of three.

My point stands.

[F1boat]

Ferrari made Kimi the highest paid F1 driver on the grid with results that fall very short of the $60 million+ pricetag.

So please, quit the victim mentality.

"It's not about money - it's about sending the right message"
The Joker

[Steve2009]

Reports from the Spanish media are always suspect. But just for yuks, and giggles lets say there is some truth to this report:
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_23260.shtml

"Fernando Alonso will take with him technicians from a selection of other teams,
chosen personally by him. :eek:
The driver from Asturias is reported to have signed for five years, with the option of one more. Such a long contract is unusual in the sport, and would take Fernando to 34, indicating the end of his Formula One career"


That would be pretty good treatment for the #2 Driver :confused:
Any speculation of who these hand picked technicians may be?
Don't forget This guy Fred is a rather clever fellow ;)


Hail Caesar
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2009/8/16/1250424038402/Fernando-Alonso-001.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/01crowd.jpg

[Ranger]

Here are a few interesting statistics.

From Australia 2007 up to and including Germany 2009:

Titles:
Kimi: 1 (winner)
Felipe: 0

Total Wins:
Kimi: 8
Felipe: 9 (winner)

Total Points:
Kimi: 185
Felipe: 213 (winner)

It has been amazing how different people think of Kimi when Massa isn't around. ;)

[Knock-on]

Here are a few interesting statistics.

From Australia 2007 up to and including Germany 2009:

Titles:
Kimi: 1 (winner)
Felipe: 0



Really, this is all it's about.

Coming second is the first loser and last time I checked, there is 1 WDC that Ferrari have since MS left and it's a Finn that won it.

I have no axe to gring against either of them and respect Massa now he has matured into a competent F1 racer from the early days (when I justifiably criticised him).

It's not about who you personally prefer but how brings home the Championship.

[Ranger]

Really, this is all it's about.

Coming second is the first loser and last time I checked, there is 1 WDC that Ferrari have since MS left and it's a Finn that won it.

I have no axe to gring against either of them and respect Massa now he has matured into a competent F1 racer from the early days (when I justifiably criticised him).

It's not about who you personally prefer but how brings home the Championship.

Well if you also agree that Nicky Hayden is better than Dani Pedrosa because Nicky won the MotoGP title in 2006 then I can see where you're coming from.

[Sonic]

Well if you also agree that Nicky Hayden is better than Dani Pedrosa because Nicky won the MotoGP title in 2006 then I can see where you're coming from.

Good point well made sir. A WDC is but one factor in looking at a driver - Stirling Moss would surely agree with that stance! :p

[Knock-on]

Well if you also agree that Nicky Hayden is better than Dani Pedrosa because Nicky won the MotoGP title in 2006 then I can see where you're coming from.

I appreciate what you are saying and agree to an extent. You can get some drivers on inferior equipment that stand out ahead of winners on better equipment.

Perhaps I was being a little too definate with the WDC win is all that matters but the fact remains that on equal machinary, Kimi has delivered the goods. As far as wins go, there's only the width of a fag paper between them also.

I like Massa now but on equal machinary, I rate Kimi as having a slight edge. I am astounded at Ferrari's handleing of him and would welcome him back with open arms to McLaren if the opportunity arose.

[Sonic]

BBC sport (on TV so no link) suggest the deal for Fred to move to Ferrari is done - a 5 year deal.

[Ranger]

I appreciate what you are saying and agree to an extent. You can get some drivers on inferior equipment that stand out ahead of winners on better equipment.

Perhaps I was being a little too definate with the WDC win is all that matters but the fact remains that on equal machinary, Kimi has delivered the goods. As far as wins go, there's only the width of a fag paper between them also.

I like Massa now but on equal machinary, I rate Kimi as having a slight edge. I am astounded at Ferrari's handleing of him and would welcome him back with open arms to McLaren if the opportunity arose.

At $30million+ per year I'm just of the opinion that Kimi was vastly overpaid, and am hence mystified by these "Kimi was abandoned" comments.


BBC sport (on TV so no link) suggest the deal for Fred to move to Ferrari is done - a 5 year deal.
I heard it was 5 years and an then an option. But we'll find out in less than a week.

[DexDexter]

And getting beaten by his team-mate two years out of three.

My point stands.

No it doesn't. It's been discussed here. They've scored about the same number of points in the last three years (up to Massa's accident) if technical problems are discounted. So correct word is not beat but match. And obviously there is the WDC in 2007.


2007:

Kimi:

Kimi had one electrical problem (Spain) and one mechanical problem (Europe). Not counting these two races, he finished the other 15 races with 110 points, which gives him 7.33 points per race.

Massa also finished 15 races and did not finish 2. Of the two, one was a suspension problem (Italy) but the other one, he missed the red light at the end of the pit lane and was disqualified, so I consider that a driver error. He had 94 points, over 16 races, gives him 5.87 points per race.

2008:

Massa had two retirements. In Australia he spun coming out of turn one when racing Kovalainen, so that's not a car failure. In Malaysia, he spun out of the race on lap 31, without any car failure. As such, I consider that a driver error too. As such, he had 97 points over 18 races, which gives him an average of 5.38 points per race.

Kimi:
Retired in two races and finished 16. Of these, Canada was definitely not his fault, as Hamilton ran into him in the pit lane, so I won't count that as driver error. In the European Grand Prix, Kimi had an engine failure. He had 75 points, over 16 races, which give him an average of 4.68 points per race.

2009 (until the end of German GP):

Kimi: Of the 9 races, Kimi finished 7 and retired in 2. He retired the Spanish GP with a hydraulic failure, so not a driver error. In Germany he had a radiator issue, so again not a driver fault. He had 10 points by the end of German GP, over 7 races, gives him an average of 1.42 points per race.

Massa: Of the 9 races, Massa finished 7 and retired in 2. He had a suspension problem in Australia, so not a driver fault. In China, he had an electrical issue, so again not a driver error. He had 22 points at the end of German GP, over 7 races, gives him an average of 3.14 points per race.

Overall:
Kimi: 195 points over 38 races: 5.13 points per race.

Massa: 213 points over 41 races: 5.19 points per race.

It is very clear that their points per race (excluding car failure) is very very close. 5.19 plays 5.13. Not much in it really.

[Knock-on]

At $30million+ per year I'm just of the opinion that Kimi was vastly overpaid, and am hence mystified by these "Kimi was abandoned" comments.




You wont hear me denying that and in fact I can be quite critical of Kimi and his application at times. He does seem to up his game when it suits him and goes to sleep a bit when there's no chance of glory rather than toughing it out.

Perhaps this is why he doesn't fit in at Ferrari. They would rather have someone that looks like he's trying too much and spinning the car than someone that puts his head down and quietly gets the job done.

Rather like the Itallian temprement itself :laugh:

[Storm]

Are you suggesting that Alonso looks like he is trying too much (which he does) and end up spinning his car (which he doesn't)?

Anyways Spanish media says the deal will be announced on Thursday morning, 5 years and 30m a year with Kimi going to McLaren with 44m Euros as compensation. Santander may or may not be paying part of that but are probably paying part of Alonso's salary for next year.

So says Marca/MundoDeportivo/Sport

[DexDexter]

Are you suggesting that Alonso looks like he is trying too much (which he does) and end up spinning his car (which he doesn't)?

Anyways Spanish media says the deal will be announced on Thursday morning, 5 years and 30m a year with Kimi going to McLaren with 44m Euros as compensation. Santander may or may not be paying part of that but are probably paying part of Alonso's salary for next year.

So says Marca/MundoDeportivo/Sport

So Kimi has a higher salary than Fernando next year and Ferrari will pay him to drive for Mclaren, their archrival. Only in F1... :D

[DexDexter]

They must want Fernando so so bad..... The pressure he must feel has got to be immense I reckon... Plus the Tifosi are the most unforgiving fans in motorsport, so all I can say is good luck Fred and watch out for the little chap.. :p

Yep, and after this deal, if Fred gets beaten by Felipe one single time, he is so overpaid one cannot believe it :)

[Mark]

I think realistically Massa put together a better championship challenge than Kimi did. Massa only lost the WDC after he'd crossed the finish line. Whereas Kimi only won it because Hamilton messed up several times.

[DexDexter]

I think realistically Massa put together a better championship challenge than Kimi did. Massa only lost the WDC after he'd crossed the finish line. Whereas Kimi only won it because Hamilton messed up several times.

That's true up to a point, but one must remember that even in 2008 Kimi lead the championship for quite a while before something went wrong, and looking at it now, seeing how he is now performing, one cannot put it all down to him. But Kimi & Massa's statistics are roughly similar, scored points, qualifying etc, so based on that I think they were evenly matched for the whole three years.


Ooo I'm looking forward to this forum next season, although I'm sure they'll be a difference of opinion with this line up... ;)

I think I will quote old messages by some people quite a lot :) .

[Sonic]

The first half of next year will be fascinating. Who ever can establish dominance on the track and more importantly within the team (this is why Massa is a Ferrari fave) will be quids in for 2011 and beyond.

[christophulus]

BBC sport (on TV so no link) suggest the deal for Fred to move to Ferrari is done - a 5 year deal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8280566.stm

Seems to be a done deal. 20m euro a year until 2011 with a three year option after that

[Knock-on]

I think realistically Massa put together a better championship challenge than Kimi did. Massa only lost the WDC after he'd crossed the finish line. Whereas Kimi only won it because Hamilton messed up several times.

Impossible to argue against that Mark unless we bring in a couple of variables that assisted Massa (Spa?).

What is obvious is that there's not a lot of difference between the 2.

I would raise one point though. If Kimi was concentrated on as much as Massa for the first 9 races, then why has he done so expotentially better since Massa hasn't been around. Sorry to add a bit of controvosy but he scored 10 points up to when Massa had his accident and 30 points after in a car which apparently isn't be developed anymore :confused:

[harsha]

Impossible to argue against that Mark unless we bring in a couple of variables that assisted Massa (Spa?).

What is obvious is that there's not a lot of difference between the 2.

I would raise one point though. If Kimi was concentrated on as much as Massa for the first 9 races, then why has he done so expotentially better since Massa hasn't been around. Sorry to add a bit of controvosy but he scored 10 points up to when Massa had his accident and 30 points after in a car which apparently isn't be developed anymore :confused:

maybe cause more development suiting Massa's driving style will only make the car more unsuitable for Kimi to drive :?:

and since Kimi isn't the sort to complain about his bosses this year...maybe we'll hear the story next year????

[Knock-on]

:laugh:

You may well be right ;)

However, with the 3/10 sec in his back pocket, I'm sure Alonso will prevail. :D

[Mark]

Perhaps because the Ferrari is itself getting much better, much like the McLaren. It's just that Massa hasn't been around to make use of it.

[SGWilko]

:laugh:

You may well be right ;)

However, with the 3/10 sec in his back pocket, I'm sure Alonso will prevail. :D

Quite. IF Teflonso really is a dirty team player/backstabber, we will see his very worst next year if Massa equals him.

BIO!

[Steve2009]

Fred>Massa by a substantial margin. :s mokin:

[Steve2009]

Fred>Massa by a substantial margin. :s mokin:
Should make for some entertaining backpedaling from forum members, when reality bites them! :laugh:
Of course there will be the usual excusses that Alonso is getting preferential treatment by Ferrari.
Don't get me wrong I like the kid. It's just that he's going to be way out of his league at Ferrari next year!
Alonso is just too consistant in a good car

[I am evil Homer]

I disagree I don't think there's a lot to choose between Hamilton, Kimi, Alonso and Massa....although Lewis has shown this year he can drive the wheels off a terrible car, as has Fred.

Kimi is still a good driver for any team to have and for McLaren I think the have a very strong pairing for 2010, easily on par with Ferrari.

[Steve2009]

I disagree I don't think there's a lot to choose between Hamilton, Kimi, Alonso and Massa....although Lewis has shown this year he can drive the wheels off a terrible car, as has Fred.

Kimi is still a good driver for any team to have and for McLaren I think the have a very strong pairing for 2010, easily on par with Ferrari.
Who said anything about Lewis, and Kimi? That's not a disagreement :confused:
But, Since you brought it up. Lewis is Alonso's equal, possibly even better!
Kimi and Massa both are very good drivers. However they are just a little inconsistant.
Next year boys, next year :s mokin:

[rabf1]

If Mclaren can get Rosberg, wouldn't that be a better option for them than Kimi?

[gloomyDAY]

If Mclaren can get Rosberg, wouldn't that be a better option for them than Kimi?Nigga' joo crazy!

Pardon me. I meant, no sir. Nico doesn't have Kimi's talent.
Kimi would definitely be the better option and will probably take a pay cut.

[UltimateDanGTR]

ferrari have basically confessed that raikkonen is out, and hopefully for him 1st stop mclaren. hopefully, and in theory, Next year will be the battle of the superteams:

Ferrari: Massa and Fred
Mclaren: Hammy and Kimi
Red Bull: The aussie and the vet
Brawn: Bunsen and Nico

now they all stand a good chance of building good cars next year, championship winning ones, so an epic title battle looks on the cards. Brawn may have the weakest driver line up out of the 4, but its better than most so hopefully their drivers can compete with the best, lookin good boys......

[harsha]

I doubt red bull are gonna build a good car....newey cars are known to be fragile...but still gonna be a great year

[Knock-on]

I doubt red bull are gonna build a good car....newey cars are known to be fragile...but still gonna be a great year

Bit Harsh there. The RB has been OK. It's the Renault side which has been most of the problem and it's a pretty damn fast car.

[Steve2009]

Bit Harsh there. The RB has been OK. It's the Renault side which has been most of the problem and it's a pretty damn fast car.Actually I think the problem has been RB's mounting and aplication of the Renault Powerplant.
I don't believe either factory car's is in the kind of peril as RB in regard to engine failiar and eminent penalties for going over the limit of 8.
In fact only Ferrari has been "more" reliable this season (although I wont argue that the merc is the best package all things considered)!

[AndyL]

Pardon me. I meant, no sir. Nico doesn't have Kimi's talent.
Kimi would definitely be the better option and will probably take a pay cut.

Can't you see where rabf1 is coming from though? In the sense that Nico might do a better job of playing second fiddle to Lewis. If Kimi is matching or beating Lewis then it might end up with ructions in the team like there were with Fernando; or if Kimi is getting the worst of it then you have to wonder what'll happen to his motivation.

[gloomyDAY]

Can't you see where rabf1 is coming from though? In the sense that Nico might do a better job of playing second fiddle to Lewis. If Kimi is matching or beating Lewis then it might end up with ructions in the team like there were with Fernando; or if Kimi is getting the worst of it then you have to wonder what'll happen to his motivation.Ohhh. Great point! :)

[DexDexter]

Nigga' joo crazy!

Pardon me. I meant, no sir. Nico doesn't have Kimi's talent.
Kimi would definitely be the better option and will probably take a pay cut.

No pay cuts, probably the other way around.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Can't you see where rabf1 is coming from though? In the sense that Nico might do a better job of playing second fiddle to Lewis. If Kimi is matching or beating Lewis then it might end up with ructions in the team like there were with Fernando; or if Kimi is getting the worst of it then you have to wonder what'll happen to his motivation.

this is quite true, but i believe (and hope) that kimi and hammy can get on. when alonso went to macca, he got the impression he would be ultimate number 1 like he was used to at renault, and instead he was hammies equal. i think Hamilton, as a younger guy and having previous experience of being alonsos equal not so long ago, I believe he will understand the equality and i think he'll realise whats best for the team.

and you have to look at it from a constructors championship point of view; If macca build a championship worthy car along with ferrari and others (brawn and RBR) then Kimi is likely to score more points and wins than Rosberg IMO, and so Mclaren would stand a better chance of getting that elusive constructors championship for the first time since 98. Not undermining Nico, but most would agree that Kimi is just better, let alone more experienced.

[Steve2009]

In the world of physics what the F1 world will experience is "The Doppler Redshift"
Fred will soon "redshift" in relation to the other cars in f1 races :p :

The Doppler Redshift results from the relative motion of the light emitting object and the observer. If the source of light is moving away from you then the wavelength of the light is stretched out, i.e., the light is shifted towards the red.
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~jh8h/glossary/redshift.htm
Einstein you know :dozey:

[donKey jote]

Reports from the Spanish media are always suspect.
no more suspect than reports from the British media ;) :dozey:

[donKey jote]

Quite. IF Teflonso really is a dirty team player/backstabber, we will see his very worst next year if Massa equals him.

and if he really isn't what the British media made/make him out to be, you will see his very best again next year when he beats Massa fair and square :)

[gloomyDAY]

When Alonso is officially confirmed, then that will seal the deal for Massa's chances of winning a WDC. Massa will never get the shot to rival Alonso and I'm sure that Ferrari see to it that Felipe morphs into another Rubens in the car. Alonso is going to wipe the floor with his teammate and to think otherwise is ridiculous.

[Daniel]

I disagree gloomy. I think Alonso is overrated and if Massa is back 100% he'll beat him

[CNR]

can anybody say fore sure that alonso will be any good in the ferrari ?

[Ranger]

Can't you see where rabf1 is coming from though? In the sense that Nico might do a better job of playing second fiddle to Lewis. If Kimi is matching or beating Lewis then it might end up with ructions in the team like there were with Fernando; or if Kimi is getting the worst of it then you have to wonder what'll happen to his motivation.

You can trust me on this: Nico may be slower, but there's no way he'd voluntarily play second fiddle to Lewis.

Kimi is the much better option because he is quicker and also has the ability to just stfu and drive, in any conditions.

[Steve2009]

and if he really isn't what the British media made/make him out to be, you will see his very best again next year when he beats Massa fair and square :) In deed!!!
He'll beat poor Felipe like a drum! :arrows: :s mokin:

[gloomyDAY]

I disagree gloomy. I think Alonso is overrated and if Massa is back 100% he'll beat himNuh uh! :p

Alonso is overrated? http://i14.piczo.com/view/e/r/6/0/z/9/i/h/j/w/9/img/t147766404_89051_3.gif Thanks for the giggle.

Right, we'll just have to wait and see. We should place a wager Danny.


You can trust me on this: Nico may be slower, but there's no way he'd voluntarily play second fiddle to Lewis.

Kimi is the much better option because he is quicker and also has the ability to just stfu and drive, in any conditions.This is my line of thinking. Kimi is much better than Nico, and regardless of the situation Kimi will just drive the wheels off the car. I'm not sure where people get the notion that he lacks motivation. You can't end up on the podium for 4 consecutive races, prior to Singapore, and not give a damn.

[555-04Q2]

can anybody say fore sure that alonso will be any good in the ferrari ?

Yes. Alonso is the best driver on the current F1 grid, I dont care what any idiots have to say about it otherwise. Alonso is by no means my favourite driver, in fact he is a bit of a pr!ck to be honest, but he is the best and will beat my favourite man Massa in equal cars. Along with a now matured Massa (who will hopefully be good to race 100% next year), they have a great chance of returing my beloved Ferrari back to a dominant F1 winning team.

Bye bye "Mr Iceman" :down: Your overrated ar$e will not be missed at Ferrari.

[F1boat]

Bye bye "Mr Iceman" :down: Your overrated ar$e will not be missed at Ferrari.

Boo for this. Kimi is a WDC for Ferrari. We'll see whether Alonso will become one... and will Ferrari fans be happy with a title or will call him an "overrated a$$"... especially if Lewis and Iceman beat him.

[DexDexter]

Bye bye "Mr Iceman" :down: Your overrated ar$e will not be missed at Ferrari.

:D It puzzles me how someone can dislike a guy like Kimi. By the way, the amount of money it cost Ferrari to put Alonso in the car for next year makes him the most overrated driver ever no matter what he does.

[christophulus]

Raikkonen hasn't had the unquestioned number 1 status at Ferrari and he doesn't seem bothered too much by it. Racing alongside Hamilton at McLaren won't be too much different, they're both former world champions so there shouldn't be any friction with an up and coming teammate.

Besides, over the past few races Kimi's been fairly quiet but has had a run of podiums in an uncompetitive car. On that basis his motivation must be there still, and if that's what he can pull out when just going through the motions he's still a better choice than Kovalainen!

[Mark]

I disagree I don't think there's a lot to choose between Hamilton, Kimi, Alonso and Massa....although Lewis has shown this year he can drive the wheels off a terrible car, as has Fred.


Quite. That's the difference between the very top level of drivers, such as Hamilton, Alonso, Massa etc, that you can give them whatever equipment you have and you know they are driving it as fast as it is possible to go.

Then you have the second teir, which as much as a like him, contains Button, amongst others. Who can be blindingly quick and with the right car can match the top level drivers, but only if everything is just so.

[SGWilko]

and if he really isn't what the British media made/make him out to be, you will see his very best again next year when he beats Massa fair and square :)

Yes, and I hope that this is the case. But I have a nagging suspicion inthe back of my mind...

..oh wait, that's the wife....again!!! ;)

[SGWilko]

One point to make here vis a vis Kimi to McLaren, is that Kimi is the only driver available with a near season's worth of experience with KERS.

Assuming that the Williams stance means KERS remains in 2010 (and I think it should), then this knowledge and experience is vital.

[Knock-on]

Quite. That's the difference between the very top level of drivers, such as Hamilton, Alonso, Massa etc, that you can give them whatever equipment you have and you know they are driving it as fast as it is possible to go.

Then you have the second teir, which as much as a like him, contains Button, amongst others. Who can be blindingly quick and with the right car can match the top level drivers, but only if everything is just so.

As a Button fan, I can't argue with this at all. I would also put Massa in this group but whereas Button can't seem to get the performance out of a less than ideal car that Lewis can, Massa overdrives it and ends up in trouble. I suppose that's why he's liked at Ferrari. He may not be as good as some drivers but he's spectacular in defeat :D

Top teir is Alonso and Hamilton. A couple of years ago I would have pipped Alonso as the best out there but cannot distinguish between them now although I think Lewis will establish himself as the clear #1 next year. What he's done with the team this year is pretty amazing. Not once has he given up and has pushed and pushed like a madman to get to the stage they are now. Impressive isn't the word!

Then we have the Kimster. Where, o where, do you put him. Top flight or second. For sure, I think he has the ability but still think he's doing this for a laugh. I'm sure I saw him doing a Sudoko puzzle during the last race. Next year will tell as if he's ever going to get fired up, the challenge at McLaren and the treatment from Ferrari will do the trick. If it were me, I would want to f**k Ferrari so bad it would consume me. If the Iceman gets some fire in his belly, will he explode or merely melt?

The McLaren V Ferrari / Kimi V Lewis / Teflonso V Massa / Kimi V Ferrari battles next year are gonna gonna make it fascinating. I can't remember a Season I been expecting with such baited breath for years.

[555-04Q2]

Boo for this. Kimi is a WDC for Ferrari. We'll see whether Alonso will become one... and will Ferrari fans be happy with a title or will call him an "overrated a$$"... especially if Lewis and Iceman beat him.

Free box of tissues is on its way to you :p :

Frodo has won 2 WDC against the mighty Schumi of all competitors. His F1 career record so far speaks for itself. He consistantly beats his teamates and is almost always in the top eight, even when his car is cr@p. While I cant really stand the guy that much, credit is due for his performance.

If Ferrari provide him with a half decent car he will deliver the titles. Frodo wont need the best car on the grid, just one that is able to run with the top guns consistantly. He will do the rest.

[555-04Q2]

I'm glad Kimi hasn't adopted the defeatist attitude of some of the fans of his current team, and will be welcomed back into the Mclaren family with open arms. One teams failure is another teams gain IMO... Everyone is happy in all of this.... :)

I am yet to meet a single F1 spectator in the real world (ie: not on a forum) who has been impressed with Kimi since he came to Ferrari. Even our local motoring scribes and presenters are not impressed with him. He was hyped up by the masses to levels that he has never gotten close too.

Kimi's lack of commitment to the Ferrari team has not gone down well. I look forward to two hard working drivers in the prancing horse next season, even if one is a bit of a d!ck.

[555-04Q2]

:D It puzzles me how someone can dislike a guy like Kimi. By the way, the amount of money it cost Ferrari to put Alonso in the car for next year makes him the most overrated driver ever no matter what he does.

I dont dislike Kimi the man, contrary to peoples thoughts. I obviously dont know him personally so I cant judge him as a person.

What I dislike is his poor work ethic, his hyped up reputation when he came to Ferrari and the fact that people always say if he only drove to his potential he is the best. Well, when is he going to reach his potential then, when he retires :?:

He's in his 7th season now in the top two teams in F1, Ferrari and McLaren, yet doesnt have much to show for it besides a lone WDC and 17 odd wins. Kimi is supposed to be so good, but he's really just another Damon Hill.

[Knock-on]

I am yet to meet a single F1 spectator in the real world (ie: not on a forum) who has been impressed with Kimi since he came to Ferrari. Even our local motoring scribes and presenters are not impressed with him. He was hyped up by the masses to levels that he has never gotten close too.

Kimi's lack of commitment to the Ferrari team has not gone down well. I look forward to two hard working drivers in the prancing horse next season, even if one is a bit of a d!ck.

There you have it in a nutshell. The masses (ie Tifosi) hyped him up to insanity levels while Kimi just does what Kimi does. Like it or not, he has delivered a title and just been Kimi. If you want someone loveable and fawning at the "masses" feet, then you have Massa.

As has been said, if you don't get Kimi, then fine. We're happy to have him back and if Ferrari pay for it, so much the better :laugh:

[ShiftingGears]

he's really just another Damon Hill.

:laugh:

Hill would've been (and was) destroyed by drivers like Kimi.

[AndyL]

He's in his 7th season now in the top two teams in F1, Ferrari and McLaren, yet doesnt have much to show for it besides a lone WDC and 17 odd wins. Kimi is supposed to be so good, but he's really just another Damon Hill.

O, that we should all have such feeble achievements to boast of :rolleyes:

Edit: just to add some numerical perspective to this: Massa has 11 wins from 62 races for Ferrari - 17.7%. Raikkonen has 9 wins from 49 races for Ferrari - 18.4%. Plus that hardly-worth-mentioning WDC of course.

[Knock-on]

:laugh:

Hill would've been (and was) destroyed by drivers like Kimi.

Really? Really?

Apart from his first year where he finished 3rd in the championship behind Senna and his team mate Prost, (including team orders to not challenge Prost on occassions), I can't remember him being bested by his team mate apart from in his last season where he just gave up.

He is a 1 times WDC and would have been a twice if not for Schumacher taking him off in the last race.

I'm not saying he was the best ever but his record stands up by itself thank you very much.

[ArrowsFA1]

:laugh:

Hill would've been (and was) destroyed by drivers like Kimi.
Such as?

As far as I remember Damon Hill lined up alongside Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, David Coulthard, Nigel Mansell, Jacques Villeneuve, Pedro Diniz, Ralf Schumacher and H-H Frentzen in his F1 career.

[Knock-on]

Such as?

As far as I remember Damon Hill lined up alongside Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, David Coulthard, Nigel Mansell, Jacques Villeneuve, Pedro Diniz, Ralf Schumacher and H-H Frentzen in his F1 career.

But apart form that, what have the Romans ever done for us :laugh:

[SGWilko]

But apart form that, what have the Romans ever done for us :laugh:

Aqueducts, sanitation........

[ShiftingGears]

Such as?

As far as I remember Damon Hill lined up alongside Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, David Coulthard, Nigel Mansell, Jacques Villeneuve, Pedro Diniz, Ralf Schumacher and H-H Frentzen in his F1 career.

Okay, in his second season he was beaten by Prost (who was already past his peak). Senna was much faster than him in 1994. In 1995 Hill and Coulthard both drove quite badly. In 1996 Villeneuve was matching him in his debut year and was in contention before his wheels fell off in Suzuka. Villeneuve wasn't even that fantastic. Pedro Diniz is no comparison as he was no good. He beat Ralf, but not by much.

I didn't say he didn't have determination, and I don't dislike him, but he was never in the league Kimi is in.

Kimi is better than most of the drivers he was in direct competition with, bar Schumacher and perhaps Senna. Prost was past his peak in his last year.

[Mark]

A sole WDC? I think you are understating this here. Kimi Raikkonen was the Formula 1 World Champion in 2007. That is not something to be dismissed as unimportant.

Indeed if you feel becoming champion, even once, is nothing much, then are you an F1 fan?!

[ArrowsFA1]

Aqueducts, sanitation........
And the roads...

[ArrowsFA1]

I didn't say he didn't have determination, and I don't dislike him, but he was never in the league Kimi is in.
Fair enough :cool:

I just think Hill sometimes gets a rough deal sometimes and is just seen as someone who lucked into the seat at Williams and only won the WDC because he had the best car.

Sure, he wasn't the best driver of the 90's, but he deserved his title.

[Knock-on]

A sole WDC? I think you are understating this here. Kimi Raikkonen was the Formula 1 World Champion in 2007. That is not something to be dismissed as unimportant.

Indeed if you feel becoming champion, even once, is nothing much, then are you an F1 fan?!

I have never understood this either.

There have been over 800 F1 drivers and 30 champions since 1950 yet people dismiss champions as being not that good?

WTF more can a driver do than be Champion????

On the subject of Hill, lets not forget that he would have been multiple world champion, which only 14 people have ever managed, if not punted off.

Lastly, he wasn't beaten in his second year by Prost. It was his first full season although he did drive a couple of races in the Brabham the season before, managing to qualify it which the driver he took over from couldn't.

Crap that Hill, isn't he :rolleyes: