UK TV coverage for Rally GB

[MJW]

In addition to the nightly Ralio+ coverage of Rally GB, I also hear an exciting rumour that the BBC will also do a one hour wrap up show on the monday after the event, 26th Oct. BBC Northern Ireland did something similar after Rally Ireland 2009, and apparently BBC Wales are following suit, with none other than Mark James, fronting it. Following on from the success of the BBC's F1 coverage, could this lead to renewed interest from BBC for rallying? Or will DAVE TV be the place to watch WRC in 2010 ?!!!!!!

[MrJan]

I'd love for the Beeb and Mark James to take it up again, it's been a shadow of it's former self ever since it went the C4, then ITV, then ITV4 and now Dave.

[Daniel]

I'd love for the Beeb and Mark James to take it up again, it's been a shadow of it's former self ever since it went the C4, then ITV, then ITV4 and now Dave.
The only way it could get worse would be to go on the Ocean Finance channel :laugh:

The silly thing is that the Beeb owns Dave along with Virgin Media so it's not like they couldn't have an positive influence if they wanted to.

[Rally_Rocks]

Mark James, Mr Soporific, is this really who we want to show the nation how exciting and dynamic our sport is? Lovely guy, but dull as ditch. All you school guys who hark back to the days of Group B etc will be delighted though I'm sure. A great opportunity potentially wasted I fear.

[Daniel]

Mark James, Mr Soporific, is this really who we want to show the nation how exciting and dynamic our sport is? Lovely guy, but dull as ditch. All you school guys who hark back to the days of Group B etc will be delighted though I'm sure. A great opportunity potentially wasted I fear.
I'm sorry but Mark James commentated over some of the glory years of the WRC and did so with dignity, understanding and sympathy and his work was much loved and respected. The current gobe which passes as commentary just does not work at all hence all the threads complaining about it.

The current coverage pretends to be live when anyone with half a brain knows it's not.

[Josti]

Would certainly be great, since we get BBC one and two overhere. It gives me a bit of a nostalgic feeling, having watched the excellent RAC coverage back in the late 90's early 00's on BBC, including the live stages.

[Rally_Rocks]

As I said, he's a lovely guy, but absolutely not the person to reintroduce our sport to a rally starved young audience. I agree with you about the WRC TV commentary, that obviously isn't the solution. But there must be someone more charismatic than the lovely Mr James.

[Daniel]

I don't see the need. I think highlights are fundamentally different to live coverage.

[noel157]

William Woollard? Tony Mason? Raymond Baxter?

[Rally_Rocks]

Daniel, you are with respect, from the old school. Therefor your acceptance of old school presenters is understandable. What we need for our sport to prosper is a younger generation of fans. To this end my arguement against James and for someone with a little more about them is entirely valid.

[Daniel]

Daniel, you are with respect, from the old school. Therefor your acceptance of old school presenters is understandable. What we need for our sport to prosper is a younger generation of fans. To this end my arguement against James and for someone with a little more about them is entirely valid.
Can i ask how old you are and how old you think I am? :p I thin you may be surprised at how I am ;)

[Rally_Rocks]

It's nothing to do with your age, it's to do with your attitude. You don't have the attitude of what I would suggest the target audience should be ie 16-24.

These youngsters are the lifeblood of our sport. Manufacturers want to see young fans buying into rallying, there is very little point in a long term strategic involvement otherwise.

[pettersolberg29]

I'm bored so I'll take the bait and guess! Daniel - I'll guess you're 26.

Higher or lower than 26?

[MJW]

It's nothing to do with your age, it's to do with your attitude. You don't have the attitude of what I would suggest the target audience should be ie 16-24.

These youngsters are the lifeblood of our sport. Manufacturers want to see young fans buying into rallying, there is very little point in a long term strategic involvement otherwise.
I think that youngsters, in age and attitude would welcome a quality presentation. Channel 4 started with the Penny and Jeremy Hart period of dumbing down and sensationalising "rally" - BBC 's F1 coverage, with the exception of radio man commentator has been excellent, Brundle, Jordan etc are of a certain age but Jake Humphrey has been a real find, and he present with maturity and slick professionalism that draws big audiences across all demographics. The "wow X Games Extreme sport of Rally" style presenting is one that has failed to generate new "customers". Please credit the younger generation with more than a shallow passing phase. Those that end up as the future of the sport would welcome a story told style of reporting. It works for F1 and Moto GP, why should WRC have to make do with anything less?

[Daniel]

You couldn't be more right MJW.

[Rally_Rocks]

Jake Humphries is an excellent example of the point I was making. Previous to F1 he was a kids TV presenter doing Newsround amongst other kids programmes. A Jake Humphries for rally is far preferable and in the long term beneficial to rallying than nice but dull Mark. Thank you for helping me make my point!

[Brynmor Pierce]

Jake Humphries is an excellent example of the point I was making. Previous to F1 he was a kids TV presenter doing Newsround amongst other kids programmes. A Jake Humphries for rally is far preferable and in the long term beneficial to rallying than nice but dull Mark. Thank you for helping me make my point!

Jake started in kids TV but was presenting Football before F1, see the point you're making but really think it may be an idea to bring back the masses with 'some' knowledge before we try and gain a 'new generation'.
I'd hazard to guess there are many many thousands wh could be switched back on with a good quality programme. Perhaps have Mark James as main anchor and a new 'name' as sidekick/ live reporting for future use???

[Daniel]

Jake Humphries is an excellent example of the point I was making. Previous to F1 he was a kids TV presenter doing Newsround amongst other kids programmes. A Jake Humphries for rally is far preferable and in the long term beneficial to rallying than nice but dull Mark. Thank you for helping me make my point!
Good points but I don't necessarily think the future of rallying is young people, there is already a potential audience of squillions of older people who already love rallying and don't need to have things presented in a hugely different way.

[AndyRAC]

I think that youngsters, in age and attitude would welcome a quality presentation. Channel 4 started with the Penny and Jeremy Hart period of dumbing down and sensationalising "rally" - BBC 's F1 coverage, with the exception of radio man commentator has been excellent, Brundle, Jordan etc are of a certain age but Jake Humphrey has been a real find, and he present with maturity and slick professionalism that draws big audiences across all demographics. The "wow X Games Extreme sport of Rally" style presenting is one that has failed to generate new "customers". Please credit the younger generation with more than a shallow passing phase. Those that end up as the future of the sport would welcome a story told style of reporting. It works for F1 and Moto GP, why should WRC have to make do with anything less?

I agree, not only the presenting, but the whole sport has been styled as an 'Extreme sport' for the 'younger, trendier' viewer. And where has that got us?
Exactly, absolutely nowhere.
Mark James is a real enthusiast and has done recent RallyGB's on RallyRadio for Radio LeMans. Just look at any highlights from when the BBC did it, and the Dave coverage - it's like night and day. The sport isn't going to get anywhere stuck on an digital entertainment channel.
Let's hope it is a success!! :)

[BDunnell]

It's nothing to do with your age, it's to do with your attitude. You don't have the attitude of what I would suggest the target audience should be ie 16-24.

These youngsters are the lifeblood of our sport. Manufacturers want to see young fans buying into rallying, there is very little point in a long term strategic involvement otherwise.

But generally young fans can see straight through attempts to make coverage 'young'.

Jake Humphrey has been mentioned already in this thread. I agree that he is an excellent presenter of the BBC's F1 coverage. Why is he so good? Because he does the job in the manner of a mature, serious, professional broadcaster.

[Vatanen]

One answer Steve Rider

[Daniel]

One answer Steve Rider
Steve Ryder is good as a presenter of an overall show but I don't see him as someone who could actually commentate a rally highlights program.

[Daniel]

But generally young fans can see straight through attempts to make coverage 'young'.

Jake Humphrey has been mentioned already in this thread. I agree that he is an excellent presenter of the BBC's F1 coverage. Why is he so good? Because he does the job in the manner of a mature, serious, professional broadcaster.
Couldn't agree more :up: Just because someone's young doesn't mean they have to present motorsport like it's the X Games or something where only people with single digit IQ's tend to watch.

[MrJan]

I agree with what most people are saying here, HUmphries is good because he doesn't act 'young', he presents in a sober and mature style rather than hyping everything up. To be fair to Dave it has actually been a step up from that season when they didn't have a presenter and that woman was doing half the commentary. It wasn't that she was a woman that bothered me, it was that she was e :D

If the Beeb took over rallying and let someone like Ed Leigh or some other extreme sports personality loose then viewing would be less than if they did it with style and pretty much the way they used to. If anything the ever increasing desire to bring rallying to a new audience is not only failing but also driving us die-hards away :down:

[Daniel]

I'm bored so I'll take the bait and guess! Daniel - I'll guess you're 26.

Higher or lower than 26?
I'm 26 btw :) Jan Yeo is in the target age bracket that Rally Rocks mentioned also and he seems to prefer the more professional presentation than an X Games style show and I think that says a lot about what older people think about us younger types. There seem to be a lot of executives out there thinking that we want things jazzed up and done in a different style when really all we want is things to be done the same way they've been done back in the 80's and 90's with perhaps a little less starch and shirt and tie business :p

[pettersolberg29]

Am I going over the top by saying I'm proud to have guessed right?! This is going in my scrapbook...

[Daniel]

Am I going over the top by saying I'm proud to have guessed right?! This is going in my scrapbook...
Yes, yes you are :p

[AndyRAC]

Remember when Ch4 had the coverage - Jeremy Hart, who is a good journalist - started using terms such as 'The Reading Rocket' for Burns, and 'It's time for another MacAttack' for McRae.
Stop trying to make it edgy, extreme, etc just do what the Beeb have done with the F1 coverage.

[ProRally]

Remember when Ch4 had the coverage - Jeremy Hart, who is a good journalist - started using terms such as 'The Reading Rocket' for Burns, and 'It's time for another MacAttack' for McRae.
Stop trying to make it edgy, extreme, etc just do what the Beeb have done with the F1 coverage.

When i watch F1, i watch it on bbc, nice to see David, Eddie and 'i forgot his name" before the race, just sometimes a bit too much running around on the grid but and 'pushing' people but ok... better then other stations

[markrally]

It's confirmed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nkt1x

[Ondra WRC]

No live coverage? :(

[MrJan]

Wales only though :(

[Daniel]

It's confirmed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nkt1x
Woohoo! :)

Do our sport proud Mark and show those clowns on Dave how it's done.

[Daniel]

Wales only though :(
Do you have Sky? You can still get all the BBC and ITV channels for NI, Wales, Scotland and England on all sky boxes.

[Steve_PPP]

Do you have Sky? You can still get all the BBC and ITV channels for NI, Wales, Scotland and England on all sky boxes.

cheers for the tip, will try that :)

[Daniel]

cheers for the tip, will try that :)
I think they're around 970-995 :)

[AndyRAC]

Woohoo! :)

Do our sport proud Mark and show those clowns on Dave how it's done.

I think it's virtually guaranteed that he will do the sport proud. Just as he did before Ch4 got the rights.

[Daniel]

I think it's virtually guaranteed that he will do the sport proud. Just as he did before Ch4 got the rights.
I was willing him on :p I have no doubt that Mark will do a good job :p

Also forgot to mention, Mark would it be possible for you to devote some time to Pentti? :)

[MrJan]

No Sky for me but after posting I realised that I may be able to view it online. I think that if you state your location on the Live player option it will give you regional viewing, if not then Welsh programming is available on iPlayer.

[Daniel]

No Sky for me but after posting I realised that I may be able to view it online. I think that if you state your location on the Live player option it will give you regional viewing, if not then Welsh programming is available on iPlayer.
Yeah that should work :)

[BDunnell]

I think it's virtually guaranteed that he will do the sport proud. Just as he did before Ch4 got the rights.

I'm sure that some people who feel that the narration should be in some way 'youthful' and 'modern' yet who have no idea what they mean by this will no doubt consider him dull, but I'm with you.

[BDunnell]

Also forgot to mention, Mark would it be possible for you to devote some time to Pentti? :)

Excellent idea, especially seeing as it's the 20th anniversary of his victory.

[Daniel]

I'm sure that some people who feel that the narration should be in some way 'youthful' and 'modern' yet who have no idea what they mean by this will no doubt consider him dull, but I'm with you.
Couldn't agree more :up:

Perhaps Mark could try and jazz the show up for the kidz though and use words like wikkid and extreme and perhaps get Owen Money on as a the obligatory WRC comedian :mark: :rotflmao:

[AndyRAC]

Excellent idea, especially seeing as it's the 20th anniversary of his victory.

20 years, it only seems like yesterday. Great memories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQQv6AL5c-k

[RS]

I actually think Channel 4 had it just right and it was, overall, the best coverage we have ever had in the UK.

Mark James is great, but I seem to remember "back in his day" it was on grandstand a week or two after the event for half an hour max.

If I remember right at one stage we had nightly highlights on at primetime and it had their own presentation and not the bland crap that Northone TV dish up nowadays.

Ever since then it had declined into the "comedy" coverage we have now.

When the "RAC" Rally used to be a major sporting event in the UK the tv coverage was fantastic. Live spectator stages on the Sunday (and not the crappy stadium superspecials we have now) followed by detailed nightly reports covering all the classes.

Now, when I tell anyone I am going to Rally GB this Friday I have to explain what it is "You know the chappy who died in the helicpoter crash, it's what he used to do"

[AndyRAC]

I actually think Channel 4 had it just right and it was, overall, the best coverage we have ever had in the UK.

Mark James is great, but I seem to remember "back in his day" it was on grandstand a week or two after the event for half an hour max.

If I remember right at one stage we had nightly highlights on at primetime and it had their own presentation and not the bland crap that Northone TV dish up nowadays.

Ever since then it had declined into the "comedy" coverage we have now.

When the "RAC" Rally used to be a major sporting event in the UK the tv coverage was fantastic. Live spectator stages on the Sunday (and not the crappy stadium superspecials we have now) followed by detailed nightly reports covering all the classes.

Now, when I tell anyone I am going to Rally GB this Friday I have to explain what it is "You know the chappy who died in the helicpoter crash, it's what he used to do"

Good post, good points made.

When Mark James did the coverage along with Tiff Needell, and also Peter Slater, it was filmed by BBC Worldwide, I think. It was on normally on the following week's Grandstand, and also Top Gear Motorsport (remember that?).
Yes, remember when the RAC Rally was a major sporting event? It no longer is, so somebody should tell IMS/MSA - they seem to think it still is. Get real, wake up and smell the coffee - nobody knows what RallyGB is, and even less care. Top Gear Rally Report - what kind of a sport just lets an event let go of all that publicity? Utter madness. :mad:
Somebody in work, who knows I follow Rallying, asked when the RAC Rally was? What was I supposed to say?

[BDunnell]

Good post, good points made.

When Mark James did the coverage along with Tiff Needell, and also Peter Slater, it was filmed by BBC Worldwide, I think. It was on normally on the following week's Grandstand, and also Top Gear Motorsport (remember that?).
Yes, remember when the RAC Rally was a major sporting event? It no longer is, so somebody should tell IMS/MSA - they seem to think it still is. Get real, wake up and smell the coffee - nobody knows what RallyGB is, and even less care. Top Gear Rally Report - what kind of a sport just lets an event let go of all that publicity? Utter madness. :mad:
Somebody in work, who knows I follow Rallying, asked when the RAC Rally was? What was I supposed to say?

I must confess I wouldn't know when it was on were it not for the topics coming up on the forum here. Even now I do know, I don't care. Harsh but true.

[PuddleJumper]

Not particularly interested in the rally, but I've set the Sky+ to record the coverage because I'm interested to see how it compares to what the BBC produced back in the 90s when they did the half hour highlight shows as part of Top Gear Motorsport (still got them on VHS :D ) and Grandstand. It says on the BBC page that Mark James is producing but is he commentating too? If so, I hope he will do it in a reporting style and not a let's-pretend-this-is-live-and-gasp-when-someone-goes-off way that we've been fed by Eurosport for many years.

[AndyRAC]

I must confess I wouldn't know when it was on were it not for the topics coming up on the forum here. Even now I do know, I don't care. Harsh but true.

I know what you mean - all my brothers used to come with me to the RAC/NetworkQ Rally, now they're not really interested. I suspect there are a lot of 'former fans', who have fallen out of love with the sport. My question, do the movers and shakers in the sport realise this? What other sport has shot itself in the foot so spectacularly?

[MrJan]

I know what you mean - all my brothers used to come with me to the RAC/NetworkQ Rally, now they're not really interested. I suspect there are a lot of 'former fans', who have fallen out of love with the sport. My question, do the movers and shakers in the sport realise this? What other sport has shot itself in the foot so spectacularly?

Not necessarily the sport but certainly the WRC has lost some appeal. I've missed highlights of a lot of events this season just because I haven't been as interested in a)the Championship b)the number of top class entries and c)the style of the programme. I just don't like the majority of the ISC camerawork. And don't get me started on Virtual Spectator.

[AndyRAC]

Not necessarily the sport but certainly the WRC has lost some appeal. I've missed highlights of a lot of events this season just because I haven't been as interested in a)the Championship b)the number of top class entries and c)the style of the programme. I just don't like the majority of the ISC camerawork. And don't get me started on Virtual Spectator.

Fair point, the sport at WRC level; I still enjoy the National events.

[MrJan]

Fair point, the sport at WRC level; I still enjoy the National events.

Which is ridiculous really, the WRC is the pinnacle with the best cars and the best drivers but I'll make more of an effort to get to the RAC or Wydean than I would consider for Rally GB. It's a real sign that things aren't that bright for the sport at the higher echelons and somebody near the top needs to realise it and work out what needs to be done.

[RS]

If so, I hope he will do it in a reporting style and not a let's-pretend-this-is-live-and-gasp-when-someone-goes-off way that we've been fed by Eurosport for many years.

That's not Eurosport, it's the pre-prepared stuff that Northone TV supply them. They use the same on 'Dave'

[RS]

I just don't like the majority of the ISC camerawork. And don't get me started on Virtual Spectator.

You mean you don't like spectacular footage of Airwaves chewing gum banners?

[MrJan]

You mean you don't like spectacular footage of Airwaves chewing gum banners?

It's not just the sponsorship stuff but the endless close ups. When a car is going around a corner I want to see the car and the corner, not just a perfectly framed wheel. Fair enough a close up on the wheel is good camerawork but that doesn't make it good viewing. All that sideways camera stuff is crap too, you don't need to use camera trickery to make the cars look fast as they are already doing silly speeds through a shedload of trees :)

[MrJan]

Watched half of this on iPlayer during my lunchbreak and it's amazing how no adverts, no 'celebrities' and a presenter in the know can make such a difference, even when using pretty much the same footage. Top work Mark, nice piece mentioning Pentti (did Dave even acknowledge his passing?), actual coverage of some of the lower order and British contingent (rather than a passing mention) and most of all an actual feeling that you know what went on in the rally :up: Many thanks for finally giving us rally fans a decent bit of coverage

For those in the UK the link is http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nkt1x/2009_Wales_Rally_GB/

[Simmi]

Thanks for the iplayer link. About 4 seconds in I was like yeah this is the good stuff.

Just nice to see some unpretencious back-to-basics coverage. Obvously they just used the ISC stock coverage which is to be expected. But that's how an event review should be done.

[Waldrons11]

Watched half of this on iPlayer during my lunchbreak and it's amazing how no adverts, no 'celebrities' and a presenter in the know can make such a difference, even when using pretty much the same footage. Top work Mark, nice piece mentioning Pentti (did Dave even acknowledge his passing?), actual coverage of some of the lower order and British contingent (rather than a passing mention) and most of all an actual feeling that you know what went on in the rally :up: Many thanks for finally giving us rally fans a decent bit of coverage

For those in the UK the link is http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nkt1x/2009_Wales_Rally_GB/

Yeah, Dave mentioned the sad passing of Pentti in the News section to the Access All Areas show in the preview show the previous week.

Watched the BBC Wales show on iplayer too, while I agree Dave's obsession with random celebrities is frustrating as it eats into the quota of rallying action, I found this version rather tedious. Nice to hear Mark's voice again, but I personally just found the past tense reportage style a little dull, when the event actually had moments of real excitement.

[MrJan]

Yeah, Dave mentioned the sad passing of Pentti in the News section to the Access All Areas show in the preview show the previous week.

Watched the BBC Wales show on iplayer too, while I agree Dave's obsession with random celebrities is frustrating as it eats into the quota of rallying action, I found this version rather tedious. Nice to hear Mark's voice again, but I personally just found the past tense reportage style a little dull, when the event actually had moments of real excitement.

Rarely watch the other Dave shows, just find them boring. Personally I find the 'as live' thing far more tedious, not least because I know that it certainly isn't live. Rallying isn't a sport which you can commentate on as if it's happening live and the attempts by Paul King always sound forced and far less interesting than reportage.

The Dave coverage isn't (IMO) for rallying buffs but provides access to the sport for others, generally those of us who have been watching for years aren't pulled in by it and find coverage that gives information much better, it's all just opinon but I really can't fathom why anyone would enjoy watching the Dave programme.

[Brynmor Pierce]

Thought Mark James did the sport proud last night and showed what could be done with the same footage..well done Mark!!

[PuddleJumper]

Just finished watching it. Brilliant. That's how it should be. Well done, Mark!

[MrJan]

Note to UK viewers that this is being covered again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w02zp

With any luck it goes on the iPlayer and you can see it by changing what region you're in :up: