Spa in danger?

[Josti]

Well, I've got this from a Dutch news site, maybe someone has the same story in English. The original story came from the Belgian newspaper La Libre Belgique.

http://www.nusport.nl/autosport/2087725/vergunning-circuit-spa-francorchamps-geschorst.html

Translation:
The licence who permits the use of the Spa track in Belgium until 2026, has been suspended. The Belgian Councel of State has suspended the licence after ongoing complaints of the local residents, who handed in an official complaint back in 2007. The organisers made a study about noise complaints, but the Councel found it insufficient. Recent studies has showed that they cannot garantue that the circuit imposes to recover the damage it causing in the area, thus a licence suspension.

It's said that they're working on a solution. It's uncertain if next years Belgian Grand Prix is in danger.

[ioan]

Stupid Belgian Council of my rear side. They probably never thought about the consequences.
How is that people who can't ever realize what they are doing always manage to get jobs in positions where they can decide what others should do?!

[V12]

It really grates me when "local residents" complain about the noise coming from a track, this has happened with Brands Hatch before I believe. I'd have sympathy with them if a new track was suddenly built on their doorstep, but Spa has existed since the 1920s, and has actually shrunk since then! At least they don't have cars racing literally past their doorstep like they used to in the good old days!

I'm sure Bernie will be bouncing off the walls if this has any substance though, he gets to ditch Spa for another government funded sandbowl without bearing any of the responsibility himself!

[ShiftingGears]

I don't really have time for residents making complaints about noise. Spa was a race circuit since the 1920's, and bar the 1970's, has still been a racing circuit. Racing circuits = engines = noise. If they don't like it they shouldn'tve bought a house there!

Same goes for Monza.

[nigelred5]

grrrrrrr. Is nothing sacred anymore??????Ok, lambic, chocolate, and Spa. I've developed a bizarre and unfortunate allergy to most Belgian ales and my waist line demands I avoid the chocolate. What other need is there for Belgium? If they are going to axe the race, just axe the whole damned place. ;)

friggin idiots.

[ioan]

What other need is there for Belgium?

Pommes frites?! :D

I know most people call them 'French fries' even though their origin is definitely Belgium. :)

[Sonic]

I don't really have time for residents making complaints about noise. Spa was a race circuit since the 1920's, and bar the 1970's, has still been a racing circuit. Racing circuits = engines = noise. If they don't like it they shouldn'tve bought a house there!

Same goes for Monza.

Exactly. Its not like the estate agent could hide it on a viewing. "So here we have the living room, kitchen, beautiful garden - oh and ignore the big race track the property backs onto, you'll never notice it"

The only people with the right to complain in the brands hatch case (e.g people who's properties were older than the track) didn't give a hoot about the noise. It was just the new residents. Back in the bad old days (1999-2003ish) we weren't allowed to even get tire noise at surtees/clearways on trackdays etc.. stupid!

[HenryM]

oh, no :(
but yes... I think some constructions around the track are older than the track in spa, so I think the residents have the right to not be happy about it, but it's a complicated case, the track have a big importance, and generate money for that area... and it is there for a long time to...

[Josti]

A prime example is Zandvoort I think, who suffered from ongoing enviromental actions and noise complaints when the F1 Grand Prix was still hosted there. This partly let to the downfall of the commercial holders and therefore the Dutch GP after 1985.

[truefan72]

this is some kinda joke right?

these residents cannot deal with the noise for 3 days out of 365?
At the most historic race track in the world?
Spa has been a race track since the 1920's far out dating all the residents living there (who incidentally profit mightily with jacked up rates on everything in the town) many of whom actually leave the area during the race and lease out their homes at astronomical prices.

It is most likely the complaint of one or two useless individuals and the blame has to lie squarely with the court for taking up the matter instead of throwing it out as nonsense. If the Belgian GP leaves, the same idiots will be complaining about the economic downturn to their region and how their lives are miserable. We truly live in a sad time.

[Lousada]

I don't really have time for residents making complaints about noise. Spa was a race circuit since the 1920's, and bar the 1970's, has still been a racing circuit. Racing circuits = engines = noise. If they don't like it they shouldn'tve bought a house there!

Same goes for Monza.

Even if the activity was greatly increased since they went to live there? Because that is the case, the 2007 license granted a lot more trackdays and other weekday events than before.

[Lousada]

this is some kinda joke right?

these residents cannot deal with the noise for 3 days out of 365?


You know, there is more in the world then F1. The track is used several days in the week, every week of the year.

[UltimateDanGTR]

How dare people complain about the noise given off by one of the finest racing circuits in the world! how dare residents hinder millions of people just because of the noise. Brands Hatch. Silverstone. Now spa. its all happened to them. how dare residents put a GP in danger in future because of their own personal problems with it, if they dont like it, they should leave! I for one would love to have a house near spa, if they dont like it, get out! If residents didnt think they were more importnat than several million grand prix watchers, we wouldnt be in this kerfuffle!

aargh, they do my head in!

[ioan]

Turbo diesels and electric engines are the future! :p :

[nigelred5]

Pommes frites?! :D

I know most people call them 'French fries' even though their origin is definitely Belgium. :)


Yeah, but then they want to go slather them in nasty ol mayonnaise like my wife. YUCK.

[nigelred5]

You know, there is more in the world then F1. The track is used several days in the week, every week of the year.

As it has been for many many years. :mad: I'd build a house right at the end of the old pit lane and enjoy every last minute of living there.

They have these things, they are called ear muffs........

[UltimateDanGTR]

Turbo diesels and electric engines are the future! :p :

enter Audi and Peugeot.........

[Robinho]

didn't they recently prove that the Belgish actually invented cricket/

[ioan]

Yeah, but then they want to go slather them in nasty ol mayonnaise like my wife. YUCK.

I agree! :D

[GridGirl]

The chips and mayonaise were the only reason I went back because Spa was the biggest dump I've ever been too. I went in 2001 and 2002 before the track got much needed improved facilities. The waffles are good too. :D

[nigelred5]

Doh! I forgot about waffles!!

I like my papas fritas with vinegar if they are the right "boardwalk" type fries which should NEVER be eaten with ketchup, or with ketchup if they are just about any other type of fried tuber. ;)


I could give a rats backside about facilities for the teams or the spectators. There's plenty of trees for me to take care of nature calls, and the teams need to come down off of that lofty perch they like to nest on anyway. Spa is the finest road course on the Planet, bar none. Not only should F1 never ever consider leaving the track off of the schedule ever again, More series should run there.

[V12]

Yeah, but then they want to go slather them in nasty ol mayonnaise like my wife. YUCK.

:up: :up: :up:

The only things that should go near them are salt and the bloody remnants of my steak!

[ShiftingGears]

Even if the activity was greatly increased since they went to live there? Because that is the case, the 2007 license granted a lot more trackdays and other weekday events than before.

Obviously people who bought properties near the circuit didn't ask themselves about the likeliness of the circuit getting busier, and that's not the circuits fault.

Anyway it seems to be that the 17 year closure order has been suspended, so hopefully the best F1 circuit continues to operate.

[Integrale]

I like my fries with mayonaise. Then again, I'm Belgian, and (strangely) proud of it. I live in the country where the saxophone was invented, the stroboscope and modern-day road asphalt. Famous Belgians like Mercator and Vesalius influenced the world immensely. For an outsider it's difficult to comprehend the surrealistic character of Belgium. We speak French, Dutch and German. Did you know we have 5 different governments?

This thread, about the noise on the circuit, isn't so big a deal. What's more frightening, is that one of the options the government of Wallonie (southern French-speaking part) is thinking about to take to cut costs in order to limit the fall of the state budget, is the cancellation of the GP of Spa. Someone said earlier that the region is making profit out of the event. Maybe that is the case for hotels, shops and restaurants, but the organisation itself is making huge losses. Every year the government of Wallonie needs to pump an awful lot of money into it. In the current economical and political state, this seems a greater threat than some nitwits complaining about noise.

And indeed, we could eventually see the legend of Spa being dropped for another characterless circuit in the desert..

[Kazan]

Sorry having to say that I read (in this forum as well as others) a great deal of nonsense about the recent Spa-Francorchamps ruling. Although being just as much concerned as anyone with the news (since I hardly miss any international event there), I think interpretation of the measure went much out of course.
First, neither F1 nor any major events are at stake. But the increasing use of the circuit on week days for “incentives”. Already a meeting was prompted between the association of petitioners and the management of the circuit (indeed, an association of boroughs), to reach a compromise about measures for the future, as should always be the case whenever any kind of nuisance affects some residents. At Francorchamps, the problem being the noise level, in the absence of any regulation.
Second, the State Council being the administrative high court, all it did was to revoke the exploitation permit that had been provided a couple of years ago, without any kind of restriction whatsoever, by the regional government. That ruling being grounded on the fact that the compulsory study of environmental incidence was “seriously insufficient”.
That leading to aberrations, since many read it wrongly as a final ban on all activities on the circuit… Should there be anyone to blame, I would personally point to the regional minister who acted hastily, under the urge of securing the F1 come-back after Ecclestone’s blackmailing. The issue being put again in the hands of the regional authorities, to establish another permit, hopefully more carefully thought over.
Third, since the ruling of the administrative court has not been so far combined with any claim for damages before a general court, there is no infringement penalty, which means all races in the calendar may be maintained.
As to the cost of running a F1 race, it would surprise me if Francorchamps was the only place where such event would come very much over budget. This being a case for serious consideration: how is it that LMS or FIA-GT do manage properly without facing such issues? Thanks, Bernie!

[Shifter]

They hold bycicle races in my town. If I complained about the traffic tie-ups (not to mention all the raised spandex-covered asses) they'd look at me like a killjoy. But this is motor racing, and they've all agreed motor racing is evil. I hate people sometimes.

[TheFamousEccles]

didn't they recently prove that the Belgish actually invented cricket/

What???? Really!!?? :eek:

[Roamy]

Spa is one of the world's treasures. Anyone trying to eliminate this incredible track should be dragged behind a ox cart from Brussels to Moscow !!

Why do people always want to attack the character of their own country!!
Get a frreakin ear plug bitch!!!!

[ArrowsFA1]

The issue of local residents objecting is not unique to Spa. Brands Hatch, Monza, Croft (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=56260629746) and other circuits have been subject to similar complaints and I suspect this kind of thing will happen more often in the future :mad:

[AndyRAC]

The issue of local residents objecting is not unique to Spa. Brands Hatch, Monza, Croft (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=56260629746) and other circuits have been subject to similar complaints and I suspect this kind of thing will happen more often in the future :mad:

It's bad enough these muppets complaining - it's even worse that the courts uphold the complaints. Don't they have a brain?
So you move into house next door to a circuit, that has been there for 50-60 years, and complain about the noise. Tough!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[emporer_k]

I would fully understand if this were a new cirucuit but the residents must have known that there was a racing ciruit nearby when they bought their homes so I have no sympathy whatsoever.

[Sonic]

With respect to croft I do have some sympathy for the locals. The circuit was pretty much going to ruin in the 1980's and early '90's and didn't get revamped until the later end of that decade.

But historic tracks (in constant use for 40 years) quite frankly tough! Sell your houses people; I'll buy them! I'd love to have a track at the end of my lawn.

[Mr Kurtz]

I like my fries with mayonaise. Then again, I'm Belgian, and (strangely) proud of it. I live in the country where the saxophone was invented, the stroboscope and modern-day road asphalt. Famous Belgians like Mercator and Vesalius influenced the world immensely. For an outsider it's difficult to comprehend the surrealistic character of Belgium. We speak French, Dutch and German. Did you know we have 5 different governments?

This thread, about the noise on the circuit, isn't so big a deal. What's more frightening, is that one of the options the government of Wallonie (southern French-speaking part) is thinking about to take to cut costs in order to limit the fall of the state budget, is the cancellation of the GP of Spa. Someone said earlier that the region is making profit out of the event. Maybe that is the case for hotels, shops and restaurants, but the organisation itself is making huge losses. Every year the government of Wallonie needs to pump an awful lot of money into it. In the current economical and political state, this seems a greater threat than some nitwits complaining about noise.

And indeed, we could eventually see the legend of Spa being dropped for another characterless circuit in the desert..

I agree completely! Maybe the fact that I'm belgian too has something to do with it. However, talking about the stupidity of all this: I read in the paper that this decision is based on a case that started in 2007. After that the circuit has done a lot to improve the noise problems. Since then, there have not been any more complaints... Talking about stupid courts!! But if the Spa GP gets dropped, it will be because of the millions going into Bernie's pocket resulting in losses and dropping spectator numbers due to high ticket prices.

[Easy Drifter]

Waterford Hills in Mich. has had problems for years. When houses were built along the back straight the people knew the track was there and most enjoyed it sitting on the roof and watching.
As they sold and moved out the new people complained (the track surface was maybe 50 yards from the house ptty line) and tough noise restrictions came into place. Mufflers are required.
Now the track is on the property and part of the Oakland County Sportsman's Club which has been there since to 20's. They have shooting ranges. Noise complaints about that and safety. The locals lost there.
At one point the local council passed an almost impossible noice bylaw, I think 75DB.
The track has their own Db meter. One Sunday morning they went with their meter and a friendly cop. The Mayor was charged. His power lawn mower broke the law. By law was altered.
Dunnville in Ont. was recenty shut down because of noise. It was used only for lapping with no races and is also an active airport. I must admit the track did not get approval before opening.
Calabogie in northeastern Ont. was heldup in the building process for 2 years, after initial approval, by local objections and has use restrictions and still is fighting battles. It is in rural cottage area with a ski hill and lakes so complaints are largely weekender yuppies.
By the way for those who atend the GP at Mtl. do not forget Poutine! The infamous fries with gravy and cheese curds.

[ClarkFan]

Turbo diesels and electric engines are the future! :p :
Well, that's true, too, but not for this reason!

;)

ClarkFan

[GridGirl]

I could give a rats backside about facilities for the teams or the spectators. There's plenty of trees for me to take care of nature calls, and the teams need to come down off of that lofty perch they like to nest on anyway. Spa is the finest road course on the Planet, bar none. Not only should F1 never ever consider leaving the track off of the schedule ever again, More series should run there.

Funny, because thats one of the main reasons why spa is such a dump!!! I dont actually have any problems with the race track itself.

I suppose one of the main problems with Spa is that the sound probably echos within the forest? The smell of a blown engine definately hangs within the trees. Im no expert on sound but the location may I intensify the problem.

[Sarah]

I went to Spa last year. Great racetrack, not so great facilities.