Ari Vatanen

[seppefan]

Why did Bernie not let Ari Vatanen onto the grid at Monza?

[Knock-on]

Why did Bernie not let Ari Vatanen onto the grid at Monza?

Because he's nothing to do with F1 anymore?

Let's face it. Screaming Lord Such had more chance of being elected.

[AndyRAC]

Just sums Bernie up - a second hand car salesman telling a FIA World Champion he's not allowed on the grid......

....yet all the hangers on he loves to allow on the grid.

[BDunnell]

Just sums Bernie up - a second hand car salesman telling a FIA World Champion he's not allowed on the grid......

....yet all the hangers on he loves to allow on the grid.

Indeed. Depressing, isn't it. Still, Bernie will probably die before Vatanen. At least that's something.

[Sonic]

Indeed. Depressing, isn't it. Still, Bernie will probably die before Vatanen. At least that's something.

I have this scary dream that Bernie will be with us forever as a talking head in a jar - Futurama-stylee :(

[BDunnell]

I have this scary dream that Bernie will be with us forever as a talking head in a jar - Futurama-stylee :(

Now you say it, that doesn't seem so fanciful.

[Saint Devote]

Just sums Bernie up - a second hand car salesman telling a FIA World Champion he's not allowed on the grid......

....yet all the hangers on he loves to allow on the grid.

Bernie is the boss. He made f1 into what it is today and many in f1 became extremely wealthy people as a result. If he does not want Vatanen - a man that is hostile to the f1 structure on the grid then thats it. Tough.

How do you describe Bill Gates then? As a college drop out?

And Vatanen was only a rally champion anyway.

[seppefan]

Bernie is the boss. He made f1 into what it is today

Exactly the problem.

[jas123f1]

Why did Bernie not let Ari Vatanen onto the grid at Monza?

Because Bernie is the King and F1 is not motorsport any longer - after al thus scandals.

But maybe F1 needs a "Vatanen" - the question is how many more scandals people are going to stand with.. however in my mind we are pretty close a limit..

[ArrowsFA1]

And Vatanen was only a rally champion anyway.
"Only" :confused:

[Mark]

The FIA is in charge of rallying too, not just F1.

[BDunnell]

How do you describe Bill Gates then? As a college drop out?

You could do. I take great delight in labelling Richard Branson a former VAT fraudster.



And Vatanen was only a rally champion anyway.

That sort of remark deserves to be treated with contempt.

[Josti]

And Vatanen was only a rally champion anyway.

Yeah, it seems Siant Devote likes to be degrading rallying as a sport, as he already notified us in the "Loeb in F1" thread. Probably just a lack of knowledge.

http://rallybase.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134120 (post #7)

[Saint Devote]

Yeah, it seems Siant Devote likes to be degrading rallying as a sport, as he already notified us in the "Loeb in F1" thread. Probably just a lack of knowledge.

http://rallybase.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134120 (post #7)

Actually I just put the comment in at the end just to get a rise out of people - I did not mean to offend just intended to "poke a stick about" :D

I have great respect for Vatanen - I dsiagree with his position that opposes Bernie - and people such as the great Walter Rorhl and remember happily Michelle Mouton, Roger Clark and of course the late Henri Toivonen.

I do think the rally cars are ugly [and look like midget cars yech!] - the f1 cars of the aero attachments were also unsightly - and remember the power cars of years ago.

If Kimi switched I would watch and support him! :s mokin:

And I look forward to see Sebastien Loeb in the Torro Rosso - maybe he is as special as people think.

[pino]

Actually I just put the comment in at the end just to get a rise out of people - I did not mean to offend just intended to "poke a stick about" :D



It better be last time you do that, as I don't have time to play babysitter in here :rolleyes:

[Sonic]

Actually I just put the comment in at the end just to get a rise out of people - I did not mean to offend just intended to "poke a stick about" :D

How very mature! :rolleyes:

[Saint Devote]

Sincere apologies allround - I promise not to do that again.

Although I do consider f1 to be superior to rallying!

:-]

[ArrowsFA1]

Max, in his normal way, is doing his bit for Jean Todt's campaign:


"[Vatanen] came to lunch on July 3 and said he was going to stand, and asked me if I would support him. I said I couldn't support him as I promised to support Jean. I said, 'I will be very honest. I think Jean is a much better candidate. You have no experience, you have never run anything, you've not been in charge of even the smallest organisation, you have no concept of what it is like. You didn't even run your own rally car, you had a co-driver to do that.'"
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78802

He also makes clear why, after announcing his resignation as FIA President in 2004, he stayed on:

"I completely wanted to stop in 2004 which is why I resigned then," he said. "But it became clear that the most likely replacement was going to be someone totally unsuitable...I had it in mind since before then to suggest to Jean Todt that he should do it, because he is the only person on the horizon who has got all the necessary experience, knowledge and great managerial ability. But he was, at that point, becoming CEO of Ferrari, so he had a day job. So I really had no alternative but to continue, although it was against my will."

[BDunnell]

And to think some people believe this to be a fair contest...

[ArrowsFA1]

And to think some people believe this to be a fair contest...
Indeed. It's patently obvious that Max, having changed the structure of the FIA to ensure that it is almost impossible to challenge the incumbent (Max), decided that Jean Todt would be his successor years ago.

Given that there are only two choices - Todt or Vatanen - the only way there will be substantial change within the FIA is if Vatanen is "elected", and we can predict with reasonable certainty that is not going to happen.

[ArrowsFA1]

"I think the reason that we will succeed with a massive majority has nothing to do with my qualities – be they good, bad or indifferent – because I think that people perceive that the existing regime is beginning to be a disaster for motorsport."
Vatanen? Todt? Neither (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/an-interview-from-may-1991/).

[Mickey T]

try this for size:

todt, brawn and briatore were together at Benetton during its dodgiest days when they had controversy after controversy, but won titles.

todt and max worry about briatore knowing where too many of todt's bodies are buried and what he was involved in.

flav stuffs up, max and JT snap up the opportunity to get flav out of the way for good.

clearing an even smoother path for JT to ascend to the presidency, without a crafty team boss having any dirt on him.

just a theory, but makes you think, because symonds apart, nobody else got punished...

[seppefan]

try this for size:

todt, brawn and briatore were together at Benetton during its dodgiest days when they had controversy after controversy, but won titles.

todt and max worry about briatore knowing where too many of todt's bodies are buried and what he was involved in.

flav stuffs up, max and JT snap up the opportunity to get flav out of the way for good.

clearing an even smoother path for JT to ascend to the presidency, without a crafty team boss having any dirt on him.

just a theory, but makes you think, because symonds apart, nobody else got punished...

Doubt that this is far from the truth , better give Walkinshaw a call ......!

[ArrowsFA1]

try this for size:

todt, brawn and briatore were together at Benetton...
Jean Todt was never at Benetton.

[ioan]

try this for size:

todt, brawn and briatore were together at Benetton during its dodgiest days when they had controversy after controversy, but won titles.

Try this for a better size:

Todt never worked with Benetton. :\

PS: As Arrows already pointed it out.

[macksrallye]

I think Todt has the experience to be able to do a good job as the head of the FIA (whether he chooses to or not is another thing altogether).

He started out as Guy Frequilan's (spelling) co-driver in the Talbot-Lotus Rally team in the early days of the WRC (Guy eventually becoming the head of Citreon-Sport). After that he ran the Talbot-Peugeot Rally team who won multiple Championship's with multiple driver's (Ari Vatanen being one driver he employed) as well as Dakar rally's before he moved to F1.

Given all of this he is capable of doing a good job but nobody really knows what has been done behind the scenes to get him to this position.

[ioan]

I think Todt has the experience to be able to do a good job as the head of the FIA (whether he chooses to or not is another thing altogether).

He started out as Guy Frequilan's (spelling) co-driver in the Talbot-Lotus Rally team in the early days of the WRC (Guy eventually becoming the head of Citreon-Sport). After that he ran the Talbot-Peugeot Rally team who won multiple Championship's with multiple driver's (Ari Vatanen being one driver he employed) as well as Dakar rally's before he moved to F1.

Given all of this he is capable of doing a good job but nobody really knows what has been done behind the scenes to get him to this position.

You forgot to say that Todt managed Peugeot's Le Mans effort too, which also ended with the team wining the 24hours race! :)

So he is the most successful all rounder team boss in motorsport:
rally championships, Rally raid wins in Paris Dakkar, Le Mans 24 hours wins and 6 drivers + 7 constructors F1 championships.

[Easy Drifter]

In case no one has noticed the FIA is a heck of a lot more than motorsport.
Ari has experience in real Govt.
In fact motorsport is a minor part of what the FIA does and oversees.
However, the 'old boys club' are using every trick in the book, and a few others to get the annointed one elected.
That for me is enough to say NO.

Aside from that it is clear there is only one possible choice. The man who knows more than the rest of us combined. Just ask him.


IOAN
:vader: :vader: :vader:

[ioan]

Ari has experience in real Govt.

No he doesn't.
He was one of another 700 European deputies, whom aren't always something special, that's all, he didn't govern anything.

[seppefan]

However, the 'old boys club' are using every trick in the book, and a few others to get the annointed one elected.
That for me is enough to say NO.




Todt will get it I guess and nothing will change with Ferrari getting special treament still. Alonso will be able to overtake two people while off the circuit and keep his win like Kimi did this year at Spa and Ferrari will still be shown any new changes to the regs for there agreement or not before they are implemented. And they will get away with it as we will all still watch but I guess we should not complain as it has been the case for so many years already and they do not always win.

[BDunnell]

You forgot to say that Todt managed Peugeot's Le Mans effort too, which also ended with the team wining the 24hours race! :)

So he is the most successful all rounder team boss in motorsport:
rally championships, Rally raid wins in Paris Dakkar, Le Mans 24 hours wins and 6 drivers + 7 constructors F1 championships.

But this does not mean to say he has the human qualities required for the FIA job, and it certainly doesn't follow that he is the 'new broom' that's needed. All the evidence of the campaign mounted to get Todt in suggests exactly the opposite.

By the way, while I believe that Todt is certainly not the best choice, a view apparently shared by many in F1, am I alone in finding quite a lot of Vatanen's public statements about what he'll do if elected ponderous in the extreme and almost laughably philosophical? Or maybe I'm too much of a cynic. At least he is saying something about his intentions.

[BDunnell]

Ari has experience in real Govt.

Not really. Being an MEP does not constitute being in government.

[jens]

I would personally expect Vatanen to be more impartial in the role as a FIA president, but unfortunately for him, I suspect Todt has already as well as won the election. But at least Ari gives it a try. :)

[Doon]

And Vatanen was only a rally champion anyway.

Yes only a WRC champion!

.....That counts for alot! A champion in the best days of rallying and motorsport. He knows how good it used to be and how to make it good again!

Ari is a hero, Bernie is a tw*t!

[ArrowsFA1]

Todt taking a leaf out of Max's book:

"...the negative tone of our opponent's campaign risks undermining the unity of the FIA...We would appeal to all FIA member clubs to concentrate on the real issues and we hope that the personal attacks and false allegations will stop."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79414

[Mjfan12]

I'd love Ari to win but it's probably not going to happen.

Anyways is Todt still on good terms with the Scuderia? Luca and Jean still Tight?

I want as much favoritism as possible. Just the way the world works, don't hate the player, hate the game!

[Hondo]

The FIA will approach Max, hats in hand, begging and insisting Max accept one more term to assist with the various transitions, etc.

Max will reluctently accept. He may have agreed not to run for the office, but I don't know if he agreed to give it up if the FIA insisted he remain.

[BDunnell]

The comments that have emanated from Mosley and Todt during this campaign really do have sinister overtones of statements made by totalitarian regimes. Todt will win, and will be hated by many within the sport who have encountered him in the past. Not a good start.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ari Vatanen was marched out of Max Mosley's office on Tuesday, after a three‑minute audience with the world motor sport president. Vatanen, who is standing for election as the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile's president, was in Monaco for the Sportel conference and had been invited to meet Mosley at the FIA offices. But Vatanen told fellow delegates, including Prince Albert of Monaco and Uefa's president, Michel Platini, that the meeting ended after he attempted to discuss the electoral process...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/oct/15/ari-vatanen-max-mosley-fia


The fierce battle to become the most powerful man in world motorsport was at the centre of a new row on Wednesday night after emails were leaked showing how senior figures at the top of the FIA are supporting Jean Todt...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/6328903/FIA-presidency-battle-erupts-into-new-row-as-leaked-emails-show-support-for-Jean-Todt.html