Refuelling safety system

[wedge]

Ferrari's system:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/09/ted-kravitz-the-italian-grand.html

We didn't get around to mentioning it on the telly, but I found out what caused that strange moment of hesitation when Kimi Raikkonen tried to pull away from his second stop.

It was a fail-safe system that kicked in to stop the car if the fuel hose is still attached.

This is a legacy of the pit-stop traffic-light system that effectively cost Felipe Massa the world championship at the Singapore Grand Prix last year when he pulled away from the pits with the fuel hose still attached.

After that, the FIA asked the teams to come up with an immobiliser that would keep the car in the box if the fuel hose were still attached, even if the driver tried to pull away.
Ferrari came up with the system and has been using it this season.

There is a sensor on the fuel coupling on the car. When the fuel nozzle pushes it in, it immobilises the car. When it pops out, after the nozzle comes off, the car can go.

In Kimi's case, the fuel hose was off, but only just, so the trigger sensor cut the engine revs to idle. Kimi tried again, and it worked. It lost Raikkonen a second or two, which could have lost a place to Sutil, had the Force India driver not been experiencing a troubled pit stop of his own.

[Daniel]

Ferrari's system:
Good stuff :)

[schmenke]

I thought Kimi stopped because he ran over the foot of a pit crewman?

I thought that mucking about with the refueling systems wasn't permited?

:confused:

[wedge]

Good stuff :)

I wonder if Ioan knows of this? :D

[V12]

I thought that mucking about with the refueling systems wasn't permited?

:confused:

I'm guessing that it involves something on the car that detects when the hose is in, rather than any modifications to the refuelling system itself. Good idea, not just from a safety viewpoint, as the article says, such a system might have stopped Massa losing the title last year.

[Dave B]

While we're on the subject, what's the crack next year if you're in danger of running out of fuel with refuelling banned? Are you expressly forbidden from refuelling full stop, or can you do it and take a penalty?

[Saint Devote]

Running out of fuel I would say returns us to the good days of it bening a retirement and perhaps a long walk back to the pits - to the delight of racing fans along the way.

May the refueling pit stops finally die the death it has always deserved. It artificially determines races. Next must be a tyre that lasts the entire race.

So once again if a driver returns to the pits during a race it is because of a problem and not a silly reaqson such as to change tyres.

There is only one thing worse than pitstops - the reverse grid silliness that exists in GP2.

[V12]

I wouldn't say refuelling is as farcical as GP2-style reverse grids (which are absolutely ridiculous, just like WTCC/DTM style success ballast and artifical grid penalties for changing an engine or whatever).

I do think refuelling comes under the remit of natural, non-artificial competition so as a purist it doesn't offend me, BUT I do think the sport will be better without refuelling, but I do hope that they ditch the stupid tyre rules and let the drivers and teams use whatever compound they want, when they want, so strategy will still be important but so will a drivers' ability to deal with varying fuel weights and maybe result in cars performing differently at different stages of the race, rather than a race being a series of sprints interrupted by fuel stops as we currently have.

[Saint Devote]

I wouldn't say refuelling is as farcical as GP2-style reverse grids (which are absolutely ridiculous, just like WTCC/DTM style success ballast and artifical grid penalties for changing an engine or whatever).

I do think refuelling comes under the remit of natural, non-artificial competition so as a purist it doesn't offend me, BUT I do think the sport will be better without refuelling, but I do hope that they ditch the stupid tyre rules and let the drivers and teams use whatever compound they want, when they want, so strategy will still be important but so will a drivers' ability to deal with varying fuel weights and maybe result in cars performing differently at different stages of the race, rather than a race being a series of sprints interrupted by fuel stops as we currently have.

Other than over the principle of refueling I agree with you.

The art of conserving a racing car while trying to go as quick as possible to win the race is for me an intrinsic part of grand prix racing which has been sidelined since refuelling was reintroduced at the behest of Ferrari.

It is a pity a driver such as Coulthard never raced at the peak of his career under the rules being iintroduced in 2010 - I thnk it would have really suited his so very easy style.

[Mark]

While we're on the subject, what's the crack next year if you're in danger of running out of fuel with refuelling banned? Are you expressly forbidden from refuelling full stop, or can you do it and take a penalty?

The cars won't have any mechanism to allow a fast refuel so pitting for fuel won't be a realistic option anyway.

I think the answer is that they'd just run out of fuel and stop on the track and that's it, DNF. Teams will make absoutely certain that will not happen, but of course they will be filled with as little fuel as possible too, so I'm sure some will be marginal.

[Mark]

The art of conserving a racing car while trying to go as quick as possible to win the race is for me an intrinsic part of grand prix racing which has been sidelined since refuelling was reintroduced at the behest of Ferrari.


Yes, easy to forget the reason it was brought in was that Ferrai were still using their V12 engines which drank more fuel than their V8 and V10 competitors.

I expect / hope, next year we'll see more fights towards the end of the race where one car is running low towards the end and is having to back off to conserve fuel is being challenged by another car who can run full rich as they were more sensible at the start of the race.

[AndyL]

While we're on the subject, what's the crack next year if you're in danger of running out of fuel with refuelling banned? Are you expressly forbidden from refuelling full stop, or can you do it and take a penalty?

Running out of fuel should be a pretty rare occurrence these days. I'd guess they'll do what they've been doing in MotoGP since that series started restricting fuel capacity: the ECU monitors fuel consumption and if they're using too much fuel, it leans off the engine later in the race to eek the fuel out.
There was the odd occasion where someone ran out of fuel in MotoGP IIRC, but it doesn't happen now they've all got used to it.
It did have a bit of an adverse effect on the racing for a while, too - you'd get a couple of riders dicing for a place, then one bike would decide it was using too much fuel, cut power, and drop back.