OFFICIAL: Lotus in

[Ranger]

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/2010_f1_entries.aspx

[ShiftingGears]

I'm pretty disappointed about the name, especially since they will almost certainly disgrace the name of a team they have had absolutely nothing to do with.

[ioan]

Bad news.
I doubt this team will be up to more than being backmarkers.

[DexDexter]

Bad news.
I doubt this team will be up to more than being backmarkers.

Very bad news, they should have made all the effort to get Sauber to continue. I'm 100% sure their car would have been better next year than that "Lotus" is going to be. :down: Edit: Or are they going to buy Sauber?

[DexDexter]

I can see these "Fortis" being lapped already. Colin Chapman will turn in his grave.

[ArrowsFA1]

Not happy with the fact they are using the Lotus name. A name that has a pretty impressive racing pedigree and one they have nothing to do with. I wonder if they will have the cheek to put Union Jacks on the car too, and use a green and yellow livery?... :(
:up:

This new team is 1Malaysia F1 Team Sdn Bhd, not Lotus.

[Giuseppe F1]

Not happy with the fact they are using the Lotus name. A name that has a pretty impressive racing pedigree and one they have nothing to do with. I wonder if they will have the cheek to put Union Jacks on the car too, and use a green and yellow livery?... :(

They do have something to do with it!! THEY OWN LOTUS!

I know the good ol' days of Colin Chapman are unfortunately long gone but this will inevitably have the involvement of Lotus engineering personnel and expertise alongside the Malaysian input.

The team is being based in Norfolk (initially) to be within Lotus' historical base, what more do you people want.....to go in a time machine back to the 70s.

This IS to all intents and purposes, a works Lotus effort.

Lotus without this Malaysian/parent backing would likley never be in a position to re-enter F1 so this is really the only way to see the name back in the pinnacle of racing.

[Dave B]

:up:

This new team is 1Malaysia F1 Team Sdn Bhd, not Lotus.
In peoples' minds the team will be Lotus, whatever the official FIA entry form may say. The BBC are already reporting "Lotus are back in F1" on the radio, it's an easy story if you don't bother explaining the intricacies.

[DexDexter]

They do have something to do with it!! THEY OWN LOTUS!

I know the good ol' days of Colin Chapman are unfortunately long gone but this will inevitably have the involvement of Lotus engineering personnel and expertise alongside the Malaysian input.

The team is being based in Norfolk (initially) to be within Lotus' historical base, what more do you people want.....to go in a time machine back to the 70s.

This IS to all intents and purposes, a works Lotus effort.

Lotus without this Malaysian/parent backing would likley never be in a position to re-enter F1 so this is really the only way to see the name back in the pinnacle of racing.

Let's hope it's not a total embarrassment, still it's probably not going to be as competitive as Sauber would have been. Off topic but when Lotus is mentioned it always brings back memories of that beautiful black John Player Special car, IMO the most beautiful livery ever.

[Robinho]

and Sauber are still provisionally offered a 14th slot on the grid due to the strength and quality of their application for a place, but couldn't be gauranteed the 13th due to the question over their participation after the BMW pull out, so there is a chance of 14 teams next year

[ArrowsFA1]

This IS to all intents and purposes, a works Lotus effort.
I disagree. IMHO it is the use of a name. That's all.

Lotus without this Malaysian/parent backing would likley never be in a position to re-enter F1 so this is really the only way to see the name back in the pinnacle of racing.
Without the Lotus name it is quite possible this new team would not be on the grid in 2010. Would anyone pay any attention to "1Malaysia F1 Team Sdn Bhd"?

In peoples' minds the team will be Lotus, whatever the official FIA entry form may say. The BBC are already reporting "Lotus are back in F1" on the radio, it's an easy story if you don't bother explaining the intricacies.
Sadly true. Classic Team Lotus (http://www.classicteamlotus.co.uk/) are the guardians of Lotus in F1.

[Knock-on]

Assuming :rolleyes: all 13 teams make it to the grid, I think that the entry list will be expanded to 14 teams anyway.

As for Lotus, I am a huge fan of the marque and Colin Chapman was an inspiration to me to build a S7.

Good luck to this venture and I hope they do well, whoever is backing it if only to remind us of former glory :)

[V12]

so there is a chance of 14 teams next year

That would be the best news out of all of this - actual qualifying again!

[ioan]

and Sauber are still provisionally offered a 14th slot on the grid due to the strength and quality of their application for a place, but couldn't be gauranteed the 13th due to the question over their participation after the BMW pull out, so there is a chance of 14 teams next year

Now that is great news. :)

[CNR]

will one team be gone this month ? or one of the new teams pull out

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17228&Itemid=219

this makes the 4 new teams using cosworth

[Alfa Fan]

That would be the best news out of all of this - actual qualifying again!

I think they'd just expand the starting grid to 28, which most circuits would manage with ease. Would be fun at Monaco though..

[Giuseppe F1]

One thing tucked away in this story is this:

"Tony Fernandes will be team principal. Fernandes is the founder and CEO of the Malaysian-based Tune Group, owner of the Air Asia airline."

Does this mean Williams will potentially lose another sponsor as 'Air Asia' currently sponsor the boys from Grove? Shame for them

[Giuseppe F1]

Would be fun at Monaco though..

Would be like the old days of the early/mid nineties when the lower teams were banished out of the pitlane and sent to work our of a nearby multi-storey car park! :)

[SGWilko]

I think they'd just expand the starting grid to 28, which most circuits would manage with ease. Would be fun at Monaco though..

Didn't the Principality build state of the art new pit facilities a couple of years back?

[Sleeper]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46894

According to this the FIA have added Sauber as a reserve team but are looking at expanding the grid to 14 teams to keep them in regardless o whether anyone pulls out. I really hope this happens.

[V12]

I wouldn't complain at 28 car grids either to be honest, the good part of it for me really is not the idea of cars being left off the grid, but more cars in the first place. I've just always considered 26 a symbolic number where anything above it is a really great bonus, and anything below it (as it has been from mid-1995 onwards) is completely unacceptable.

[Mark]

28 starters would be excellent. Most tracks could support 14 teams. If there are those which cannot then there is no reason why the number making it through qualifying has to be the same at every track.

[VkmSpouge]

I'm quite happy that this new team will be Lotus. Good luck to them! :)

[Robinho]

it will be great to see some new blood on track, having watched some of the BBC highlights of Monza 1988 and 1990 i was struck on Sunday by just how small the grid looks at the moment. however if we are just substituting quality with quantity its of no real benefit to the chmapionship - we have arguably the most competitive grid in history where from one weekend to the next any one of Brawn, Red Bull, Toyota, McLaren, Wiliams and now Force India look capable of potentially winning or at least making the podium, and you can probably throw Renault and BMW in there too. only Torro Rosso look like they are not capable of points at the moment.

to throw 3-4 new teams in who are tooling around at the back and being lapped 2-3 times won't improve the show, albeit it may be a way to assess some of the new drivers seeing as they can't test anymore.

i hope the new guys are able to do enough to not just be propping up the grid. that said, at least they should be able to fight amongst themsleves

[Knock-on]

You can never tell Rob. I mean, look at FI. Lots of people moaned about them and questioned why they even bothered and now look at them.

[christophulus]

Lotus has as much chance as any other team - big backing from Malaysia and Mike Gascoyne onboard. I still think 2010 is going to be a learning experience for the new teams, but the existing teams may struggle after scaling back of staff. And with the changes in regulations they could surprise a few people.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Im very happy, Lotus is returning! Just ot get this straight though, are their official name Lotus? or is it Malaysia1 whatever bla bla bla that was said earlier. Whatever, hopefully everyone, including the media, will continue to call it Lotus. now some people may say this isnt lotus, it wont be the same, they will be slow, and another 'Forti' will have come along.

but, IMO, It is Lotus, a works effort, just because they have different owners does not mean they are not Lotus. we dont call Ferrari Fiat do we, just because Fiat own them. and based in norfolk initially, how more lotus can you get with that one?

they may be slow next year, especially with cosworths, but in the long run can be competitive, with good backing, and can be another force india. just a malaysian/norfolk sort of one. Force NorfolkMalaysia maybe, No, Just Lotus.

good luck to them, if done right, they can succeed. maybe not initially, but success often takes time.

[Jag_Warrior]

I haven't really followed the Lotus story in several years. But at one time, James Hunt's brother owned the rights to the Team Lotus Grand Prix team, while Proton owned the Lotus car company and Lotus Engineering. AFAIK, the racing team and the car/engineering company haven't been related in decades. Has something changed recently? Is Hunt out of the picture?

[UltimateDanGTR]

Just ot get this straight though, are their official name Lotus? or is it Malaysia1 whatever bla bla bla that was said earlier. Whatever, hopefully everyone, including the media, will continue to call it Lotus.


dont worry, answered my own question, company name is malaysia whatsit, team name is Team Lotus, good!

[Placid]

How will Mario Andretti react about his old team whom he won the championship? Even though is not the same.

Will this team be a back-up plan for Marco?

[VkmSpouge]

however if we are just substituting quality with quantity its of no real benefit to the chmapionship

Well F1 isn't substituting anything at the moment as US, Manor, Campos and Lotus are being added to the grid. Assuming Toyota and Renault continue into 2010 and that the teams approve expanding the grid to 28 cars to allow Sauber to race (big assumptions), we should still have the quality to go with a larger quantity.

[DexDexter]

How will Mario Andretti react about his old team whom he won the championship? Even though is not the same.

Will this team be a back-up plan for Marco?

No.

[truefan72]

so once again a team gets in because thy have promised to use cosworth engines. Nothing against Lotus, but I think those teams left out have a legitimate law suit against the FIa and Cosworth for unfair business practices and blackmail.

[jens]

Why choose a newcomer instead of an existing hi-tech team of Sauber for the 13th slot? Completely puzzling. :confused: Again some Max's dirty politics, like in June, when someone like Manor was chosen over ProDrive, Lola, Epsilon?

About team name: as Proton owns Lotus, then the name has at least some credibility, unlike that completely random Litespeed effort, but if this new team aims to be a "Malaysian team" in a way, they should drive under the name of Proton instead. With the name Lotus people have their own memories - legendary British team, which had nothing to do with Malaysia. In such cases this is when I'm clearly not fan of "old names coming back", because the name doesn't represent properly the identity of the new team. They have false identity, I wouldn't like to race under a name of "someone else", it would simply feel wrong. After their F1 effort people will still rather remember Lotus as a legendary British team, not as a random Malaysian group. But with the name Proton they could at least advertise their own car manufacturer somehow. Imagine if Super Aguri had used the name of Brabham for instance - in no way they would have created a likable and memorable image of a "a tiny and die-hard Japanese outfit, who is punching above their weight" like they in reality did.

Lotus wins a race and Malaysian anthem is played at the podium ceremony. How weird to even think about it. :dozey:

[BDunnell]

This isn't Lotus, it's 'Lotus'. No matter whether or not the team goes on to be highly successful, it is in no way the direct successor to Team Lotus of old, because of the lack of connection with the manufacturer. If the Malaysian group had purchased Lotus Cars, then fine, but it hasn't. And it will surely have to start as a team with zero victories, rather than adding to Lotus' previous tally.

[Saint Devote]

Well of course it is not Team Lotus - that died with Chapman.

And the Lotus people from Hethel that carried it on did not shine -to put it mildly.

It does feel offensive that they will use the name Lotus - but maybe some sort of continuation from the past is good and there is no other way. And purists like myself do need to lighten up at vital times like these.

They bought the rights to the team and I think David Hunt and Litespeed and Gascoyne are all joined.

But with Gascoyne in the team there is a great link to the past anyway.

If this team is serious and will dedicate themselves to f1 then why not?

[RJL25]

ok hang on so the company that OWNS lotus isn't allowed to enter F1 under the Lotus name?

This is no different to the current Lotus cars that you can buy and own today. Are you suggesting that a brand new Lotus Elise is NOT a Lotus because Lotus is owned by the malaysians and not Chapman?

Its the same thing! Either Lotus is still Lotus despite its malaysian ownership, or Lotus died with Chapman, but you can't on one hand credit the current Lotus road cars and on the other hand discredit the new Lotus F1 team as they are both the exact same thing!

[ArrowsFA1]

Has something changed recently? Is Hunt out of the picture?
I think David Hunt sold the rights to use the F1 Lotus name to this new team and is not involved. He had owned the name for some time and of course linked it to the Pacific GP team in the mid-90's.

This isn't Lotus, it's 'Lotus'. No matter whether or not the team goes on to be highly successful, it is in no way the direct successor to Team Lotus of old, because of the lack of connection with the manufacturer. If the Malaysian group had purchased Lotus Cars, then fine, but it hasn't. And it will surely have to start as a team with zero victories, rather than adding to Lotus' previous tally.
That's going to be an interesting dilemma for the historians :crazy:

It does feel offensive that they will use the name Lotus - but maybe some sort of continuation from the past is good and there is no other way. And purists like myself do need to lighten up at vital times like these.
Perhaps, but I think back to reading that Ross Brawn thought of bringing the Tyrrell name back to F1 before deciding on 'Brawn GP'. Tyrrell may have been bought by BAR, who became Honda, so it could be argued that there was a link to Ken's team but, as Ross decided, it was not right to use the Tyrrell name.

IMHO this new Malaysian team have less of a link to Lotus than Brawn do to Tyrrell.

[macksrallye]

Just a couple of questions...

If the name 'Team Lotus' is owned by another person/group the could be in trouble if they use that name but if the use 'Lotus F1' it should be ok... right?

Also, you would think that with all Lotus road cars having Toyota engines they would continue the relationship into F1. Although Cosworth would bring connections to years gone by.

[Giuseppe F1]

ok hang on so the company that OWNS lotus isn't allowed to enter F1 under the Lotus name?

This is no different to the current Lotus cars that you can buy and own today. Are you suggesting that a brand new Lotus Elise is NOT a Lotus because Lotus is owned by the malaysians and not Chapman?

Its the same thing! Either Lotus is still Lotus despite its malaysian ownership, or Lotus died with Chapman, but you can't on one hand credit the current Lotus road cars and on the other hand discredit the new Lotus F1 team as they are both the exact same thing!

Here, here! :)

[Knock-on]

ok hang on so the company that OWNS lotus isn't allowed to enter F1 under the Lotus name?

This is no different to the current Lotus cars that you can buy and own today. Are you suggesting that a brand new Lotus Elise is NOT a Lotus because Lotus is owned by the malaysians and not Chapman?

Its the same thing! Either Lotus is still Lotus despite its malaysian ownership, or Lotus died with Chapman, but you can't on one hand credit the current Lotus road cars and on the other hand discredit the new Lotus F1 team as they are both the exact same thing!

Agree :up:

I was listening to Sir Stirling Moss yesterday and he was genuinly overjoyed about the return of the marque.

Some people are getting a little bit wrapped up in the fluffy gloss of History to appreciate the present ;)

[Robinho]

This isn't Lotus, it's 'Lotus'. No matter whether or not the team goes on to be highly successful, it is in no way the direct successor to Team Lotus of old, because of the lack of connection with the manufacturer. If the Malaysian group had purchased Lotus Cars, then fine, but it hasn't. And it will surely have to start as a team with zero victories, rather than adding to Lotus' previous tally.

how much of a connection to the manufacturer do you want? Proton are part of the Malaysian company behind all this, and they own the Manufactruer known as Lotus. like someone else said, if your happy for the road cars coming from Hethel to still be called Lotus, despite the brand being owned by Proton, why not the F1 team, which wil be based about 10 miles form the current Lotus concern and owned by the same people.

also people seem to be quite happy to have fond memories of the great Lotus cars, race and championship wins of the 60's, 70's and 80's, but seem to be conveniently forgetting the woefully underfunded and uncompetitive outfit they had become when they finished in the sport last time.

[Robinho]

Agree :up:

I was listening to Sir Stirling Moss yesterday and he was genuinly overjoyed about the return of the marque.

Some people are getting a little bit wrapped up in the fluffy gloss of History to appreciate the present ;)

how fluffy can gloss be, or how glossy is fluff?

[ioan]

how fluffy can gloss be, or how glossy is fluff?

;)

[ArrowsFA1]

how much of a connection to the manufacturer do you want? Proton are part of the Malaysian company behind all this, and they own the Manufactruer known as Lotus. like someone else said, if your happy for the road cars coming from Hethel to still be called Lotus, despite the brand being owned by Proton, why not the F1 team, which wil be based about 10 miles form the current Lotus concern and owned by the same people.
The difficulty I have with the use of the Lotus name in 2010 is that the issue of ownership, naming rights etc is so far distant from the Lotus racing team formed by Colin Chapman that there is no link.

Clearly the Lotus name is a valuable one commercially which is obviously why 1Malaysia F1 Team Sdn Bhd have chosen to use it. Without it they would have had a great deal less credibility, and may not have even got onto the 2010 grid.

1Malaysia F1 Team Sdn Bhd are not comparable to Proton buying Lotus road cars. The Lotus F1 team ceased to exist in 1994. There was nothing to buy/maintain/takeover. The story of Lotus in F1 ended in the same way that Brabham, Vanwall, BRM etc did.

Lotus Cars and Team Lotus became separate entities. This is a new F1 team who have obtained the rights to use the Team Lotus name in F1, in the same way that attempts were made to bring Brabham back.

I wish 1Malaysia F1 Team Sdn Bhd well. It's great to see more teams on the grid. But, old fart that I am, is it too much to hope that new teams could forge their own identities, and create their own history, rather than trading on, and commercially exploiting, great names of the past?

[Knock-on]

how fluffy can gloss be, or how glossy is fluff?

Ask a candy floss ;)

[BDunnell]

how much of a connection to the manufacturer do you want? Proton are part of the Malaysian company behind all this, and they own the Manufactruer known as Lotus. like someone else said, if your happy for the road cars coming from Hethel to still be called Lotus, despite the brand being owned by Proton, why not the F1 team, which wil be based about 10 miles form the current Lotus concern and owned by the same people.

also people seem to be quite happy to have fond memories of the great Lotus cars, race and championship wins of the 60's, 70's and 80's, but seem to be conveniently forgetting the woefully underfunded and uncompetitive outfit they had become when they finished in the sport last time.

All good points, but I tend to agree more with Arrows' views as expressed above.

[BDunnell]

I think David Hunt sold the rights to use the F1 Lotus name to this new team and is not involved. He had owned the name for some time and of course linked it to the Pacific GP team in the mid-90's.

At which point he gave up any claim to truly caring about the 'brand', in my view.

[Robinho]

by no means is the "new team" the Lotus of old, as Gascoyne states in his autosport interview, but they are about as closely linked with the modern day Lotus as they can be, so its more than just name association.

IMO they have every right to use the Lotus name as a race team, they are associated by Geography, ownership, and probably to some extent personnell with modern day Lotus, who have continued race programmes in recent history, even if the old F1 team Lotus was a separate (and ultimately failed) entity.

in that respect i welcome the efforts to revive a historical F1 marque as more than just a rights to the name issue, and it makes far more commercial sense to as well - it will be much easier to bring in sponsors to a team called Lotus than F1 Malaysia Proton etc..

i was sad to see the demise of Lotus F1 team in the early 90's (?) and they had been on a downward spiral for a while - that team is as linked with Team Lotus's successes, so i can't see how a new team who may start out struggling will do anything to denigrate the history of Team Lotus.

good luck to them

[Sonic]

i was sad to see the demise of Lotus F1 team in the early 90's (?) and they had been on a downward spiral for a while - that team is as linked with Team Lotus's successes, so i can't see how a new team who may start out struggling will do anything to denigrate the history of Team Lotus.

good luck to them

Indeed. The last ten years of Team Lotus was hardly a huge success - they were very much rudderless without Chapman.

Team Lotus is gone, and although I was torn when the original litespeed entry was lodged, this being as close to a Lotus "works" team as we are ever going to get I'm all for it.

I'm looking forward to supporting a team from start up.

As for the record books - I hope this team gets a new place in the History of F1 rather than just adding to the original tally.

[LJH1225]

I haven't really followed the Lotus story in several years. But at one time, James Hunt's brother owned the rights to the Team Lotus Grand Prix team, while Proton owned the Lotus car company and Lotus Engineering. AFAIK, the racing team and the car/engineering company haven't been related in decades. Has something changed recently? Is Hunt out of the picture?


Team Lotus is still owned by David Hunt, James Hunt's brother. This "Lotus F1 Team" has nothing to do with Team Lotus.

[LJH1225]

[quote="ArrowsFA1"]I think David Hunt sold the rights to use the F1 Lotus name to this new team and is not involved. He had owned the name for some time and of course linked it to the Pacific GP team in the mid-90's.

David Hunt is still the owner of Team Lotus. He has not sold those rights.

[LJH1225]

QUOTE: "Lotus Cars and Team Lotus became separate entities. This is a new F1 team who have obtained the rights to use the Team Lotus name in F1, in the same way that attempts were made to bring Brabham back."

RESPONSE: This new "team" has not obtained the rights to use the name "Team Lotus." David Hunt is still the owner of "Team Lotus."

[LJH1225]

At which point he gave up any claim to truly caring about the 'brand', in my view.

David Hunt still owns Team Lotus - and very much cares about the brand. The new "Lotus F1 Team" is not "Team Lotus" in any shape or form.

[ArrowsFA1]

Team Lotus is still owned by David Hunt, James Hunt's brother. This "Lotus F1 Team" has nothing to do with Team Lotus.
Interesting.

On a related note, I don't recall seeing this news back in June:

The Lotus Cars company has followed the Brabham family in distancing itself and threatening legal action against a proposed formula one team bearing its name.
It emerged last week that ‘Team Lotus’ could return to the grid next year in the form of British F3 team Litespeed, who said they were granted permission to use the name from rights holder David Hunt.
Hunt, who bought Team Lotus from the bankrupt outfit at the end of 1994, is the brother of the 1976 world champion James Hunt.
However, Lotus Cars Limited, the ongoing sports car maker that is based on the company founded by Colin Chapman in 1952, clarified on Wednesday that it is in no way associated with the prospective 2010 team.
“Group Lotus plc will take all necessary steps to protect its name, reputation and brand image,” it said in a statement.
http://www.flagworld.com/news/?p=18777#more-18777

So Litespeed were associated with David Hunt, but the team that will be on the grid in 2010 are not?

[LJH1225]

Interesting.

On a related note, I don't recall seeing this news back in June:

http://www.flagworld.com/news/?p=18777#more-18777

So are Litespeed no longer involved in the new "Lotus" team that will be on the grid in 2010?

It starts getting a bit confusing when there appear to be different Team Lotus in existence :crazy:


Mike Gascoyne is involved in the new project - not sure if the other members of Litespeed are involved. It is looking like they are not.

[ArrowsFA1]

Mike Gascoyne is involved in the new project - not sure if the other members of Litespeed are involved. It is looking like they are not.
So, in theory David Hunt could still bring the Lotus name he owns back to F1 :confused:

(p.s. sorry about editing my post after you'd replied!)

[LJH1225]

Interesting.

On a related note, I don't recall seeing this news back in June:

http://www.flagworld.com/news/?p=18777#more-18777

So Litespeed were associated with David Hunt, but the team that will be on the grid in 2010 are not?


Litespeed and David Hunt were involved in the initial entry to the FIA for one of the spots given to Manor, Campos and USF1. Team Lotus and David Hunt are not associated with the new Lotus F1 Team.

[LJH1225]

So, in theory David Hunt could still bring the Lotus name he owns back to F1 :confused:

(p.s. sorry about editing my post after you'd replied!)

Yes, he could. He still owns the rights to Team Lotus.

[Sonic]

So what's in a name? Looks like quite a lot from some of the replies.

My take on it is this;

Lotus the company was founded it '48 (I think) and Team Lotus was set up in the 50's to run the race team. Team Lotus has obviously passed into history but Lotus cars lives on under Proton ownership. So if this were a family tree this new Lotus F1 is like a cousin once removed to the original.

[Jag_Warrior]

This branding gimmick reminds me of a pair of sunglasses a friend of mine bought in college. They weren't bad looking. In fact, they were Ferarri sunglasses. Yep, Ferarri sunglasses. I didn't have the heart to tell him.

[Jag_Warrior]

So what's in a name? Looks like quite a lot from some of the replies.

My take on it is this;

Lotus the company was founded it '48 (I think) and Team Lotus was set up in the 50's to run the race team. Team Lotus has obviously passed into history but Lotus cars lives on under Proton ownership. So if this were a family tree this new Lotus F1 is like a cousin once removed to the original.

If it's true that Lotus Cars is threatening legal action against this team, it sounds more like this is a (make believe) brother from a completely different mother. Very confusing...

[truefan72]

by no means is the "new team" the Lotus of old, as Gascoyne states in his autosport interview, but they are about as closely linked with the modern day Lotus as they can be, so its more than just name association.

IMO they have every right to use the Lotus name as a race team, they are associated by Geography, ownership, and probably to some extent personnell with modern day Lotus, who have continued race programmes in recent history, even if the old F1 team Lotus was a separate (and ultimately failed) entity.

in that respect i welcome the efforts to revive a historical F1 marque as more than just a rights to the name issue, and it makes far more commercial sense to as well - it will be much easier to bring in sponsors to a team called Lotus than F1 Malaysia Proton etc..

i was sad to see the demise of Lotus F1 team in the early 90's (?) and they had been on a downward spiral for a while - that team is as linked with Team Lotus's successes, so i can't see how a new team who may start out struggling will do anything to denigrate the history of Team Lotus.

good luck to them

very well said

if Fiat decided to bring back Alfa Romoe to F1 or VW decided to bring Bugatti into the mix, would there be outrage that these companies don't have a connections to the F1 team of the past?

come on now folks, lets not get mad that a Malaysian company owns Lotus today and try and distinguish between their legitimate ownership of the lotus brand with their efforts in forming an F1 team.

i find the whole discussion in that respect kinda funny and misguided.

[ArrowsFA1]

if Fiat decided to bring back Alfa Romoe to F1 or VW decided to bring Bugatti into the mix, would there be outrage that these companies don't have a connections to the F1 team of the past?
Is BMW bringing the Mini back to our roads comparable? While the name is the same, and the design somewhat sucessfully harks back to the original, the car itself bears little or no relation to what the original Mini was designed to be.

BMW aren't the only ones to revive a brand. Fiat have done it with the 500, and VW with the Beetle. Even Citroen were (are?) thinking of bringing back the 2CV. These are all iconic brands of the past, revived partly to cash in on a sense of nostalgia.

I'm not mad that a Malasian company owns the Lotus car company. In fact they've done a superb job in continuing to produce excellently engineered sports cars. But Lotus cars didn't die. Chapman's legacy continues with the cars being produced today, under different ownership.

I see Team Lotus as being entirely different. They are like BRM, Vanwall and the other iconic F1 team names of the past...and parrots!!


Mr. Praline: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.
(The owner does not respond.)
Mr. Praline: 'Ello, Miss?
Owner: What do you mean "miss"?
Mr. Praline: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!
Owner: We're closin' for lunch.
Mr. Praline: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
Mr. Praline: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
Owner: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.
Mr. Praline: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
Owner: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!
Mr. Praline: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
Owner: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!
Mr. Praline: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at the cage) 'Ello, Mister Polly Parrot! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if you
show...
(owner hits the cage)
Owner: There, he moved!
Mr. Praline: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage!
Owner: I never!!
Mr. Praline: Yes, you did!
Owner: I never, never did anything...
Mr. Praline: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO POLLY!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
(Takes parrot out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)
Mr. Praline: Now that's what I call a dead parrot.
Owner: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!
Mr. Praline: STUNNED?!?
Owner: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Norwegian Blues stun easily, major.
Mr. Praline: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour
ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.
Owner: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.
Mr. Praline: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?
Owner: The Norwegian Blue prefers keepin' on it's back! Remarkable bird, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage!
Mr. Praline: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the
first place was that it had been NAILED there.
(pause)
Owner: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its beak, and
VOOM! Feeweeweewee!
Mr. Praline: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
Owner: No no! 'E's pining!
Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e
rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the
bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!
(pause)
Owner: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh,
we're right out of parrots.
Mr. Praline: I see. I see, I get the picture.
Owner: I got a slug.
(pause)
Mr. Praline: Pray, does it talk?
Owner: Nnnnot really.
Mr. Praline: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
Owner: N-no, I guess not. (gets ashamed, looks at his feet)
Mr. Praline: Well.
(pause)
Owner: (quietly) D'you.... d'you want to come back to my place? Mr. Praline: (looks around) Yeah, all right, sure.

[Sonic]

Much as I enjoyed that Arrows, that was probably the most random thing to be chucked into a MS forum chat in a long while ;)

[Sarah]

From our local paper...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/sport/m_story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=SportMotorsport&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=SportMotorsport&itemid=NOED16%20Sep%202009%2009%3A31%3A25%3A523

[CNR]

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46914
Lotus boss chasing experienced names

Q: will we see ralf schumacher back


Fernandes believes the start-up operation would also benefit from hiring a veteran driver to help the team through its steep F1 learning curve, rather than recruiting on national allegiances.

The Malaysian prime minister said earlier this week that the team had shortlisted six local and international drivers for the two seats, with an announcement pencilled in for the end of October.

[ClarkFan]

Agree :up:

I was listening to Sir Stirling Moss yesterday and he was genuinly overjoyed about the return of the marque.

Some people are getting a little bit wrapped up in the fluffy gloss of History to appreciate the present ;)
My response to this anouncement is very mixed and complicated.

First I recognize that the Team Lotus I backed starting as a boy no longer exists and will never exist again. That history stopped without question in 1994 and really stopped with Chapman's death in 1982. In particular, after his death the F1 team and Lotus Cars Ltd. parted ways, with the road car company going through a series of owners, including even GM for a brief period (!).

Even with umbrella ownership from Proton, the current Lotus Group is the legitimate heir of the roadgoing card company. It continues to based in the same part of the UK (maybe even in the same facilities - I have not bothered to research that) as the original. More importantly, Lotus Group has produced cars that honor the traditions Chapman began, innovative designs with their emphasis on lightness and handling.

If the new team is organized under the Lotus Group, I think they have every right to use that and even call it "Team Lotus" unless they are not planning to behave like a "team" (See: Williams 1986-1987 and McLaren 2007). But I would want to see the team based in the UK, preferably in Hethel or nearby in Norfolk.

The anounced version of a "Lotus F1" partly owned by the Malaysian government and based at Sepang doesn't sound to me like an entity that can use the Lotus name fairly. Besides, this "Lotus" seems to have a reasonable likelihood on failure in store, as basing in Malaysia will seriously limit their ability to hire staff with F1 background and knowledge.

ClarkFan

[Sonic]

Clark fan; your sentiments very much echo my own. Especially regarding a possible long term move to Malaysia - which would be a very, very bad idea for any team with ambitions in the sport. My hope is that the team will do well in their first few seasons convincing the powers that be that there is no need to move.

[gloomyDAY]

I hope there isn't another lawsuit.
This crap is getting sickening.

The team is going to be called Lotus. So what? Let's move on people.


Q: will we see ralf schumacher backhttp://thebsreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/terrified1.jpg

F--- that!

[Malbec]

Looking at it from another perspective it doesn't make sense for the Malaysian government, in partnership with Air Asia, to start up a brand new team. Why not take over BMW with the existing Petronas link? Even with BMW demanding a lot of cash it would still be better in the long run, at least they'd have a hope of finishing in the points occasionally next season.

[BDunnell]

Looking at it from another perspective it doesn't make sense for the Malaysian government, in partnership with Air Asia, to start up a brand new team. Why not take over BMW with the existing Petronas link? Even with BMW demanding a lot of cash it would still be better in the long run, at least they'd have a hope of finishing in the points occasionally next season.

A case of who you know, not what you know?

[ClarkFan]

Looking at it from another perspective it doesn't make sense for the Malaysian government, in partnership with Air Asia, to start up a brand new team. Why not take over BMW with the existing Petronas link? Even with BMW demanding a lot of cash it would still be better in the long run, at least they'd have a hope of finishing in the points occasionally next season.
They could call it "Petronas Not BMW Not Sauber F1."

;)

ClarkFan

[jens]

Regarding drivers, I personally think that if either Toyota leaves/Trulli gets sacked, Lotus is exactly the team, who could offer a lifeline to Jarno's F1 career.

The keyword here is Gascoyne. He and Trulli have worked together in Renault/Toyota and apparently Mike rates Jarno high. Also partly due to Gascoyne's influence Trulli was so high in Toyota's wishlist in 2004. So I'm keeping my hopes alive. :D

[ArrowsFA1]

Q. Can you explain the ownership structure of your team and how the Lotus brand fits in?
TF: Lotus is a complicated brand. Obviously Proton in Malaysia owns Lotus, and we have a licensing agreement with them. I think over time that relationship will solidify more and more, and Group Lotus will probably buy into the team at some stage. More and more technology from our side will go into Lotus cars, we will promote Lotus Cars closely, and I see it in time being no different from how Ferrari works.
Q. To what extent can you claim the heritage of Lotus in Formula 1?
TF: I don't think we can claim any of the heritage but we obviously have a great relationship with Clive and Hazel Chapman. We're in Norfolk and a few miles from Hethel. We are very clear about making sure we don't destroy any of the prestige, we have an advisory council to make sure that we protect what has been built by Colin Chapman and the people at Lotus.
So I don't think we can claim [Lotus heritage] but we'll certainly celebrate it and work with it. We have lots of ideas. We've talked about doing something like the Goodwood Festival at this year's Malaysian Grand Prix and have lots of Lotus enthusiasts bring their cars down to Malaysia. There are lots of ways to celebrate the heritage. It's phenomenal history, a phenomenal brand. We can't claim it, but we will work with it, we'll celebrate it and we'll honour it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80493

[ozrevhead]

I thought I read that Yoong would make an F1 return via Lotus?

[Ranger]

I thought I read that Yoong would make an F1 return via Lotus?

Yep, but not as a driver. He is leading their young driver development program. It was in Autosport last week.

[ozrevhead]

cool bananas - thanks :)

[Saint Devote]

And Lotus will name their drivers next week, with their rollout of the first Lotus in 16 years in the second week of February.

[leopard]

cool bananas - thanks :)

you have good taste... ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

And Lotus will name their drivers next week, with their rollout of the first Lotus in 16 years in the second week of February.
I wonder if the team will continue the Lotus designations for the cars. The last Lotus to race in a GP was the 109.

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/111397/lotus-109-inline1.JPG
Photo - www.auto123.com (http://www.auto123.com)

[Sonic]

I think this was discussed before (I forget where), but I believe if it did follow the old system it would be the 122?

[UltimateDanGTR]

well Lotus' aim for next year is to beat fellow newcomers 'Virgin':

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8404964.stm

this article also mentions trulli being frontrunner for a lotus seat, with drivers supposed to be announced during the next week. Fauzy is (perhaps unsurprisingly) also mentioned for a seat, but villenueve has been ruled out.

but err, interesting statement from fernandes;


"I said that number one we have to be ahead of Branson, otherwise I will retire and kill myself,"

obviously a joke that lsst bit, but not a very funny one...

[jens]

Well, Branson's Virgin Airlines is a direct rival of Fernandes' AirAsia, so IMO the humour has a bit relevance. :D Interesting that he didn't mention Mallya and his Kingfisher Airlines, who needs to be beaten - maybe a bit too much for a debut season? :D

[UltimateDanGTR]

Well, Branson's Virgin Airlines is a direct rival of Fernandes' AirAsia, so IMO the humour has a bit relevance. :D Interesting that he didn't mention Mallya and his Kingfisher Airlines, who needs to be beaten - maybe a bit too much for a debut season? :D

battle of the airlines on the track then! we need someone to act as ambassadors for british airways, so they can lose the bags halfway through............. :D

[VkmSpouge]

According to Autosport.com Lotus' driver line-up will be confirmed on Monday. Jarno Trulli expected to get one seat while the second is expected to be Heikki Kovalainen or Takuma Sato. Fairuz Fauzy may get the role of reserve driver.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80542

[maximilian]

I wonder if the team will continue the Lotus designations for the cars. The last Lotus to race in a GP was the 109.

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/111397/lotus-109-inline1.JPG
Photo - www.auto123.com (http://www.auto123.com)



Looking at this travesty, I must say no one should be worried about upholding the "tradition" of the Lotus name... as Lotus themselves basically dragged their own name thru the mud before dropping out :p

[christophulus]

Looks like it's Trulli and Kovalainen.


The new Malaysian-backed Lotus team have dashed Takuma Sato's hopes of a Formula One comeback with them next year, the Japanese driver's management said on Sunday.
"We know Taku has not got Lotus -- we found out yesterday," his commercial manager Matthew Winter told Reuters. "He has now come off the list."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE5BC05T20091213

[maximilian]

Fabulous. I really like their approach. I think I am beginning to become a fan :cool:

[ioan]

Trulli and Kovalainen?! :laugh:
Even if they tried hard they couldn't have found a better pairing of drivers who fall back more during a race!
These two have good qualifying pace, when the car is 100%, but their race craft is nonexistent.

[Saint Devote]

Looking at this travesty, I must say no one should be worried about upholding the "tradition" of the Lotus name... as Lotus themselves basically dragged their own name thru the mud before dropping out :p

Upon reflection - look at Mclaren. Its not the same team as during Bruce Mclaren's time. And then carried on by Teddy Mayer followed by Project 4 [Ron Dennis].

Sure there's been a 16 year gap but those who kept the team going after Chapman's death ran it into the ground eventually.

Resurrecting the team is being done by those some who were linked, others that care about and appreciate the history and link to Lotus. Hazel Chapman and Clive Chapman have given their blessing and now Lotus cars has stopped objectingto the name.

If this team is serious as it seems to be I do not think that Colin Chapman would have objected. Remember he was one of the most innovative and forward thinking.

The Lotus Team is as circumstances are in racing today. And based at Hethel and the beautiful track Sepang - why not reserve judgement and as fans be happy to see a return of a wonderful racing tradition for those who remember the John Player Special days, or even the David Thieme or Martini period? :D

[maximilian]

Upon reflection - look at Mclaren. Its not the same team as during Bruce Mclaren's time. And then carried on by Teddy Mayer followed by Project 4 [Ron Dennis].
Totally with you there. I was very happy to see the name return, regardless of "how" it was going to be done, and the more I hear about their plans and approach, the more I like it... and I hope for good success that will re-establish Lotus as one of the premier names in F1. In fact, I wish that we could get some other classic names back in the same manner...

[maximilian]

Trulli and Kovalainen?! :laugh:
Even if they tried hard they couldn't have found a better pairing of drivers who fall back more during a race!
These two have good qualifying pace, when the car is 100%, but their race craft is nonexistent.
Yeah, they haven't had too good a race pace, very true... other than Heidfeld, they are probably the best "available" choices yet out there, though? If you were Lotus... who would you hire? :)

[Nikki Katz]

I'd say for a new team that Trulli and Kovalainen is a very good lineup. I was expecting something more along the lines of Sato and Fauzy.

[DazzlaF1]

I'd say for a new team that Trulli and Kovalainen is a very good lineup. I was expecting something more along the lines of Sato and Fauzy.

Id have preferred it though for a Trulli/Sato partnership in the team as ithought they would want at least 1 asian driver in the lineup. Plus Sato I feel deserves another chance

[Sonic]

Not bad to have two race winners in your start up year.

Yeah they're not going to set the world on fire but that's not the brief in year one for Lotus.

Perhaps next year with bloated full tanks their lack of outright pace might not hurt as much as the 3 sprints of past seasons

[ioan]

Yeah, they haven't had too good a race pace, very true... other than Heidfeld, they are probably the best "available" choices yet out there, though? If you were Lotus... who would you hire? :)

Let me see... Kobayashi would have been a better deal than any of these two, after all he outraced Trulli at Toyota.

Even Sato, judging by his Super Aguri stint, is a better racer than these two sleeping beauties Lotus decided to hire.

Given those seats to Trulli and Kovalainen is probably the biggest waste of F1 seats since Yuji Ide was around.

[maximilian]

Let me see... Kobayashi would have been a better deal than any of these two, after all he outraced Trulli at Toyota.

Even Sato, judging by his Super Aguri stint, is a better racer than these two sleeping beauties Lotus decided to hire.

Given those seats to Trulli and Kovalainen is probably the biggest waste of F1 seats since Yuji Ide was around.
That's a bit harsh :D I do hope Kobayashi finds a place... just not sure where?? And Sato I always liked, too. Would be great to see him back. I suppose they prefer to go with the "bigger" names at this point.

[DexDexter]

Let me see... Kobayashi would have been a better deal than any of these two, after all he outraced Trulli at Toyota.

Even Sato, judging by his Super Aguri stint, is a better racer than these two sleeping beauties Lotus decided to hire.

Given those seats to Trulli and Kovalainen is probably the biggest waste of F1 seats since Yuji Ide was around.

Kobayashi is still a total unknown and the team could probably not afford the repair bills Sato would have caused. I don't understand why some people consider Sato as F1 material, he did few good races with Super Aguri but a lot of bad races with Jordan &BAR. Trulli and Kovalainen are race winners, I think a new team could do much worse, and when we know the drivers at the other new teams, I'm sure you'll agree.

[ioan]

Kobayashi is still a total unknown

He did beat Trulli driving the same car, so if he's an unknown than what exactly is Trulli? A no one maybe?


...and the team could probably not afford the repair bills Sato would have caused.

How many times did he have accidents in his seasons with Super Aguri?
I believe that Kovalainen had several more big shunts at McLaren than Sato at SAF1.


I don't understand why some people consider Sato as F1 material,

Because unlike Kovalainen he did some gutsy moves on world champions in top cars while he had the cheapest car on the grid. Heiki never did a brave move while driving for TWO championship winning teams! That's why!


he did few good races with Super Aguri but a lot of bad races with Jordan &BAR.

So did Massa and yet he went on to beat the prodigious Raikkonen fair and square in teh same team with the same car.


Trulli and Kovalainen are race winners...

Trulli is long past his sale by date and Heiki only lucked into that Hungarian GP win.
I don't agree with the 'you are as good as your last race' view, but I believe that 'you are as good as your last season' is more than fair and neither Trulli nor Kovalainen did anything worth mentioning this last season.

[aryan]

I think they have done very well to secure these two for their first year. They might have the best line up of the new team. 2 underrated race winners. Very good. I'm starting to warm up to these guys.

[aryan]

Lotus's new logo has been unveiled.

It retains the classic green and yellow colours, but other than that is a new logo.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/871/1260770472.jpg

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80567

[F1boat]

Good choice for Lotus. Two race winners is a great start for the team. Good luck to them!

[leopard]

Lotus's new logo has been unveiled.

It retains the classic green and yellow colours, but other than that is a new logo.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/871/1260770472.jpg

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80567

The green looks great, where the Petronas money will go to, sauber or lotus? in case they remain to be in partnership with Sauber, this green seem to be official color of Lotus. looking forward to watching the car once unveiled, the green may help us playing nostalgic on the green Jaguar...

[Saint Devote]

Yeah, they haven't had too good a race pace, very true... other than Heidfeld, they are probably the best "available" choices yet out there, though? If you were Lotus... who would you hire? :)

I agree with you. They wanted experienced drivers that are still competitive and have met their target. Pity they could not add Kubayashi - he definitely has potential but Fairuz Fauzy is the expected reserve driver and is a reasonable selection.

[Saint Devote]

Sato - Because unlike Kovalainen he did some gutsy moves on world champions in top cars while he had the cheapest car on the grid. Heiki never did a brave move while driving for TWO championship winning teams! That's why!

I don't agree with the 'you are as good as your last race' view, but I believe that 'you are as good as your last season' is more than fair and neither Trulli nor Kovalainen did anything worth mentioning this last season.

If Sato then very much more so Anthony Davidson. He outdrove Sato at Aguri Suzuki during their teammate days.

To be fair - Trulli scored a pole position in 2009 - I would think that is worth mentioning and did finish 8th, two points behind Rosberg in the world champiomship.

[Sonic]

Lotus's new logo has been unveiled.

It retains the classic green and yellow colours, but other than that is a new logo.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/871/1260770472.jpg

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80567

Yeah baby. Looks wicked! Hop on the Lotus fan wagon!

[VkmSpouge]

A decent line-up for Lotus in Jarno Trulli and Heikki Kovalainen but I think I would have preferred either Takuma Sato or Kamui Kobayashi instead of Kovalainen.

Also I love the logo, I hope that is the livery on the car.

[pino]

Great and expected news for Jarno :D

[Josti]

Lotus's new logo has been unveiled.

It retains the classic green and yellow colours, but other than that is a new logo.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/871/1260770472.jpg

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80567

I really like this logo, very subtle and a nice classic look.

Good line-up for their debut year too. Anctious to see what the results will be.

[DazzlaF1]

I really like this logo, very subtle and a nice classic look.

Good line-up for their debut year too. Anctious to see what the results will be.

I agree, i love the retro looking logo.

Same goes for the driver pairing too, for a 1st year team its an excellent pair of experienced heads that can help them develop as a team.

Good luck to them i say

[jens]

IMO with those signings Lotus once again shows that they are the most serious team among newcomers as according to my knowledge none of the drivers brings any sponsorship money with them. Actually in this respect Lotus seems in a better shape than even some established teams!

After that catastrophic McLaren experience Lotus is Kovalainen's last chance to rebuild his F1 career - and maybe he can again perform respectably like he did at Renault. So it's going to be interesting, what he can do alongside Trulli.

As for Trulli, arguably he has got a 3-year-deal (!!) [it may be a 1+1+1 or 2+1 as well], which is an excellent solution for him. Considering that it is a new team, surely it does make sense for him to commit for them long-term with the hope of getting some results later on.

Here they are - the new team! :)
http://www.ts.fi/f1/uutiset/95979_400h.jpg

[ioan]

If Sato then very much more so Anthony Davidson. He outdrove Sato at Aguri Suzuki during their teammate days.

Really?!

Let's see:

2007 -> Sato : 4 points vs Davidson NO points
2008 -> Both got NO points

Can you point out which criteria did you use too come to your above conclusion? Other than bias, that is not a criteria in my book.

[Robinho]

interesting signings for Lotus, they might not be the fastest 2 out there but they've both won a race, had poles, worked with World Champion Teams, and neither are past it (Trulli probably has a year or 2 if he stays motivated, maybe more) - for a rookie team thats some pretty serious ambition, when its conceivable to have ended up with a couple of rookie or unproved drivers

[DexDexter]

He did beat Trulli driving the same car, so if he's an unknown than what exactly is Trulli? A no one maybe?



How many times did he have accidents in his seasons with Super Aguri?
I believe that Kovalainen had several more big shunts at McLaren than Sato at SAF1.



Because unlike Kovalainen he did some gutsy moves on world champions in top cars while he had the cheapest car on the grid. Heiki never did a brave move while driving for TWO championship winning teams! That's why!



So did Massa and yet he went on to beat the prodigious Raikkonen fair and square in teh same team with the same car.



Trulli is long past his sale by date and Heiki only lucked into that Hungarian GP win.
I don't agree with the 'you are as good as your last race' view, but I believe that 'you are as good as your last season' is more than fair and neither Trulli nor Kovalainen did anything worth mentioning this last season.

As I said, when the other new teams present their drivers, you'll agree with me that Lotus didn't do too badly.

Talking about Kobayashi, he beat Trulli, yep, but a certain Nakajima was also very close to Rosberg in his first races and look where he ended up. Knowing the erratic history of Japanese drivers in F1, IMO it's way too early to tell whether Kobayashi is any good. He is certainly fast on his day, but it's not only about that.

[Sonic]

So now its all confirmed and I have to say I'm really pleased with the route Lotus are taking. Kovy is still just about young enough to be a young gun and Trulli has seen it all from the front of the grid to the back. Here's hoping the machinery is good enough for some spirited drives.

[ioan]

As I said, when the other new teams present their drivers, you'll agree with me that Lotus didn't do too badly.

Talking about Kobayashi, he beat Trulli, yep, but a certain Nakajima was also very close to Rosberg in his first races and look where he ended up. Knowing the erratic history of Japanese drivers in F1, IMO it's way too early to tell whether Kobayashi is any good. He is certainly fast on his day, but it's not only about that.

Kobayashi did beat Trulli, not just been close to him.
Also he isn't just fast in his day as he only had 2 races and has been damn fast both times. Saying he's fast in his day would mean that he is slow other days something we didn't see yet.

[jens]

Kobayashi did beat Trulli, not just been close to him.
Also he isn't just fast in his day as he only had 2 races and has been damn fast both times. Saying he's fast in his day would mean that he is slow other days something we didn't see yet.

Kobayashi wasn't particularly fast in Brazil though, holding up cars for most of the race.

[ioan]

Kobayashi wasn't particularly fast in Brazil though, holding up cars for most of the race.

You mean exactly what Trulli does 99% of the time? :D