Danny Bahar leaves Ferrari for Lotus...

[Giuseppe F1]

Strange to say this all sounds plausible....


- Petronas backing,
- Malaysian Government backing,
- Mike Gascoyne (so current F1 know-how) devising the car
(although would they inherit BMW 2010 design?),
- Lotus name back to F1,
- Bahar's Red Bull and Ferrari insights,

The previous Litespeed bid, just by using the Lotus name seemed as a 'through the back-door' approach of 'pulling a fast one' on utilising Lotus' F1 heritage and pedigree for their own effort which would have no heritage/pedigree although, with the seeming involvement now of the parent Lotus/Proton company, should this be considered a real attempt of a works Lotus return to Formula 1???


Will Lotus be on the 2010 grid? The article reckons an announcement could be forthcoming as soon as the Singapore GP -

Watch this space!


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http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21785.html

SEPTEMBER 3, 2009
Bahar departs Ferrari, bound for Lotus?

Ferrari has announced that its head of global branding Dany Bahar has left the team after two years. His responsibilities are currently being overseen by Luca di Montezemolo. Bahar is rumoured to be moving to become the chief executive of Lotus, where he will replace Mike Kimberley, who is stepping down because of poor health. It is also rumoured that he will be heading up a new Team Lotus in F1, which will be put together from the remains of the BMW Sauber team. The Lotus company is owned by Malaysian government-controlled car company Proton.

Bahar was previously head of corporate projects at Red Bull and has moved swiftly through F1, although he remains a relatively low profile figure. Born Taner Bahar in Istanbul in 1971 he moved with his family to the town of Silvaplana in Switzerland in his early childhood and grew up there. His father was an electrician and his mother worked part-time in a hotel. A talented linguist, Bahar went to work at the Hotel Conrad's sports and fashion store in the town, before taking a marketing course in nearby in St Gallen. He then made a big breakthrough by helping to organise a rollerblade marathon in St Moritz for which he found sponsorship from Benetton. He ended up working in sports marketing in Rome before moving to Liechtenstein to work with a financial company. It was there that he met Red Bull's Dietrich Mateschitz and impressed him to such an extent that Mateschitz hired him in 2005 to run elements of his company. One of Bahar's first moves was to negotiate the deal for Red Bull Racing to use Ferrari engines in 2006 and 2007. That led to him being hired by Ferrari to develop the brand.

The word in Malaysia is that Bahar and Mike Gascoyne are involved in the deal, which is also believed to involve Litespeed, the Formula 3 team that originally had the idea to restart Team Lotus and acquired the rights to the name, hoping that it would bring support from Malaysia. The Malaysian government has been involved with the Sauber team since the mid 1990s through Petronas and has been paying as much as $70m a year in sponsorship in recent years. Owning the team is thus a sensible move given the level of investment involved and because the Malaysians want to develop more sales for the Lotus company. The suggestion in Kuala Lumpur is that the team will be revealed in Singapore at the end of the month.

If it goes ahead the deal will be masterminded by Prime Minister Najib bin Tun Haji Abdul Razak, who came to office in April.

[ArrowsFA1]

...should this be considered a real attempt of a works Lotus return to Formula 1???.
Not in my view. It would still be just using the Lotus name, when there is no connection to the Lotus F1 team of the past.

Neither the BMW or Sauber teams have any connection to Lotus, so if the BMW-Sauber team is bought it should either carry the Sauber name or the name of the new owners i.e. Litespeed.

Litespeed buying up the remnants of the BMW-Sauber team, but rebranding it as Lotus, would be like Brawn calling themselves Tyrrell. Fortunately Brawn decided against riding on the back of history, and instead set about creating their own.

[ClarkFan]

I'm really mixed on this anouncement. I'd love to see the Lotus name back in F1, but this doesn't look like the real thing, at least not yet.

Were Proton to start/buy a team themselves it would be more legitimate - they own the name currently and even make road cars that are true to Chapman's original spirit, in England no less. If Group Lotus actually bought the BMW team and based it in the Lotus Engineering facility in Norwich, their right to use that hallowed name would be pretty strong.

But if they keep it in Hinwil......no way. :down:

ClarkFan

[Giuseppe F1]

Group Lotus actually bought the BMW team and based it in the Lotus Engineering facility in Norwich, their right to use that hallowed name would be pretty strong.

But if they keep it in Hinwil......no way. :down:

ClarkFan

Im really mixed too ClarkFan, but say, if we take the example of Mercedes-Benz's current placement in F1.

All their history, prestige, prowess etc was established back in the glory days of the Silver Arrows, then they were out of F1 for a long time, before returning to the sport in 1994.

And this return to the sport wasnt managed out of Germany, home of Mercedes-Benz.......yet the engines were designed, made and developed in a sleepy little village in England!

Wouldnt this latest Lotus development be the same kind of situation? I.e. a continuation of a motorsport legacy albeit with a new team to drive the dream, albeit the same dream that inspired and fuelled the original?

If the money and backing behind this is from the Proton/Lotus group who own Lotus Cars, and they have purchased the old Lotus F1 name from Dave Hunt or whoever it is (he who runs Historic Team Lotus at events such as Goodwood FoS etc) and indeed as this sale of the name also had his full blessing, they I cant see why this cant be seen as anything other than a full Lotus Works effort??

Colin Chapman is never coming back and I think thats the problem, perception wise - Its hard to imagine a bona fide TEAM LOTUS in F1 without his direction and drive.

[I am evil Homer]

F1 today wouldn't accept someone of Colin Chapman's vision....you're not allowed it innovate anymore!!!

[christophulus]

It all seems fairly sensible, Petronas are big backers of BMW anyway. The only issue is the massive scaling back of BMW's operation and the job cuts that would result - unless they can get BMW to pay a lump sum to sort that out it seems more viable to start a new team up from scratch.

Maybe it's because I don't remember the Lotus days but I don't have a problem with them reusing the name. Sponsors will love it, and if F1 is truly going to be a low(er) cost sport where innovation is key (however restrictive the rules are, there's always going to be innovation), then I don't see the problem! And Proton have owned Lotus cars for a few years now and they haven't forced them to make a Lotus MPV/4x4 - it looks like business as usual.

[Giuseppe F1]

It all seems fairly sensible, Petronas are big backers of BMW anyway. The only issue is the massive scaling back of BMW's operation and the job cuts that would result - unless they can get BMW to pay a lump sum to sort that out it seems more viable to start a new team up from scratch.

Maybe it's because I don't remember the Lotus days but I don't have a problem with them reusing the name. Sponsors will love it, and if F1 is truly going to be a low(er) cost sport where innovation is key (however restrictive the rules are, there's always going to be innovation), then I don't see the problem! And Proton have owned Lotus cars for a few years now and they haven't forced them to make a Lotus MPV/4x4 - it looks like business as usual.

I dont necessarily think that the new Lotus team if it happens, has to inherit the team premises in Hinwil.

It could just inherit the entry. As Litespeed and Mike Gascoyne's consultancy firm are still being linked with the project, that seems to suggest to me that they would have the original plan of the team being based in the UK.

If they were to stay in Hinwil, I cant see the need for Gascoynes consultancy firm otherwise, so fact Mike is still being linked suggests to me that they may only be after the entry and not all the plant etc. although they may try and have the BMW 2010 F1 car design included in the deal as a base point for next season.

[Saint Devote]

Not in my view. It would still be just using the Lotus name, when there is no connection to the Lotus F1 team of the past.

Neither the BMW or Sauber teams have any connection to Lotus, so if the BMW-Sauber team is bought it should either carry the Sauber name or the name of the new owners i.e. Litespeed.

Litespeed buying up the remnants of the BMW-Sauber team, but rebranding it as Lotus, would be like Brawn calling themselves Tyrrell. Fortunately Brawn decided against riding on the back of history, and instead set about creating their own.

Agreed. Lotus declined and died with the great Chapman.

BTW - look up on You Tube for such an enjoyable video of Patrese driving his wife around in a car. Terrific viewing!
:D

[52Paddy]

Agreed. Lotus declined and died with the great Chapman.

I was about to post the same thing. Although a works Lotus team could make the F1 grid (with Proton involement etc) it just wouldn't have the same aura as before. I'm all for this new team, its great to have more entries and 2010 keeps looking better on that front. But I would prefer if the team entered as Sauber, Petronas, Proton or LiteSpeed. The team has far more connections to those mentioned than it does to Lotus (historically speaking.) Also, it would help the team on the commercial side too, if they're half decent. Running under a Proton or Petronas banner will surely generate more $$$ than Lotus would if their campaign was fruitful.

[UltimateDanGTR]

IMO, Id rather see an F1 team called Lotus than Proton. because no offence to proton, but they are kind of known for your bog standard economy car, and i dont think they have motor racing pedigree. bit like Lada in WTCC, it jsut doesnt seem to fit. rebranding it sauber or Petronas would be fine with me, but Proton just isnt 'F1 enough'

[52Paddy]

IMO, Id rather see an F1 team called Lotus than Proton. because no offence to proton, but they are kind of known for your bog standard economy car, and i dont think they have motor racing pedigree. bit like Lada in WTCC, it jsut doesnt seem to fit. rebranding it sauber or Petronas would be fine with me, but Proton just isnt 'F1 enough'

But look at it another way: Having Proton directly involved in an F1 team could radically change their image. I know we're talking about F1 here but let me just bring you an example from the world of rallying. I can't remember who wrote this but it was possibly Alan 'Plum' Tyndall. He said that before the Impreza WRC hit the stages in 1993, Subarus were cars for 'farmers in hilly areas.' The Impreza and its subsequent rallying success changed Subaru's image to its higher profile today.

Even though a Proton road car is not being depicted in the flesh with regard to F1 involvement, I believe naming the team Proton will still boost their image if they achieve decent results.

Though aside from that, I do agree that it sounds funny - Proton F1 :p :

[Robinho]

But look at it another way: Having Proton directly involved in an F1 team could radically change their image. I know we're talking about F1 here but let me just bring you an example from the world of rallying. I can't remember who wrote this but it was possibly Alan 'Plum' Tyndall. He said that before the Impreza WRC hit the stages in 1993, Subarus were cars for 'farmers in hilly areas.' The Impreza and its subsequent rallying success changed Subaru's image to its higher profile today.

Even though a Proton road car is not being depicted in the flesh with regard to F1 involvement, I believe naming the team Proton will still boost their image if they achieve decent results.

Though aside from that, I do agree that it sounds funny - Proton F1 :p :

agreed, Proton are hardly going to damage their rep by doing badly in F1, it can only raise their profile, and if they do well then its all an up side - agree about Subaru also (except of course they rallied the Legacy for a few years before moving to the Impreza, but thats just me being a pedant ;) )

[52Paddy]

agree about Subaru also (except of course they rallied the Legacy for a few years before moving to the Impreza, but thats just me being a pedant ;) )

I was aware of that and thought about mentioning it. But I don't think the Legacy had the same impact that the Impreza did. The Impreza gave Colin McRae and Subaru their first world championship. The Legacy did well at national level (Kenny McKinstry in Ireland and I think McRae and Richard Burns had one on the other side of the pond.) But that's not enough to keep manufacturers happy. I haven't looked into the success of the Legacy on the world stages so am up to correction on that.

Anyway, I really shouldn't be dragging this off-topic. ;)

[Josti]

I was aware of that and thought about mentioning it. But I don't think the Legacy had the same impact that the Impreza did. The Impreza gave Colin McRae and Subaru their first world championship. The Legacy did well at national level (Kenny McKinstry in Ireland and I think McRae and Richard Burns had one on the other side of the pond.) But that's not enough to keep manufacturers happy. I haven't looked into the success of the Legacy on the world stages so am up to correction on that.

Anyway, I really shouldn't be dragging this off-topic. ;)

Well, the Legacy did gave Subaru their first World Championship win, but anyway, Proton introduced their first real rallycar this year, the Satria S2000. Is Proton going for a big impact in the next few years, seeing interest in both rallying and F1?

[ShiftingGears]

They have nothing to do with Lotus. They should leave it.

[52Paddy]

Well, the Legacy did gave Subaru their first World Championship win, but anyway, Proton introduced their first real rallycar this year, the Satria S2000. Is Proton going for a big impact in the next few years, seeing interest in both rallying and F1?

Thanks Josti. I never really looked into the Legacy's rallying history, and certainly not a world level.

Interesting how they have released their S2000 car and now word of an F1 involvement. They did enter the BTCC back in 2004 with the Impian as a works team but their results really didn't look well on paper from what I remember. They had Farique Hariman who I don't remember as particularly quick, but Shaun Watson-Smith certainly had potential, if not the machinery to prove himself. My minds a bit fuzzy on those details though.

[edv]

I think they should exploit the Lotus name as much as possible. Why not? They OWN it. Lotus sold out to GM in the 80's, who in turn sold to Bugatti in the 90's, after which Proton bought controlling interest.
If you've bought a name with such a rich history, you should exploit it. That's what you paid for!
Do you think Lambourghini should be re-badged as Volkswagon?

[UltimateDanGTR]

Do you think Lambourghini should be re-badged as Volkswagon?

the very thought of this made me nearly throw up. I perish the thought of that, clean your typing fingers out, how dare you suggest such a thing! :D

[ClarkFan]

Though aside from that, I do agree that it sounds funny - Proton F1 :p :
Would Electron F1 be better? Neutron F1? Neutrino F1?

Or just go all quantum and call it Quark F1?

:p

ClarkFan

[edv]

I think Team Proton Lotus has a nice ring to it.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I think Team Proton Lotus has a nice ring to it.

you see thats not bad.

Lotus petronas another option? thats not too shabby. Petronas F1? No thanks. proton F1? IMO that would be F1s version of 'Lada' of WTCC


Lotus Petronas or Team proton Lotus it is then :D

[52Paddy]

Would Electron F1 be better? Neutron F1? Neutrino F1?

Or just go all quantum and call it Quark F1?

:p

ClarkFan

Quark F1 in conjunction with Bayron-Hadron-Meson Motorsport. Ugh...


:p :

Lotus-Proton sounds good. Or what about Loton? Or Protus? Or Protolot?

Time for bed. :mark:

[V12]

What sort of engine would this hypothetical new entry use? Cosworth I assume? If so Lotus would be a better fit than Proton (which would only make sense if they were using their own engine, which isn't going to happen)

[52Paddy]

What sort of engine would this hypothetical new entry use? Cosworth I assume? If so Lotus would be a better fit than Proton (which would only make sense if they were using their own engine, which isn't going to happen)

With ties to Petronas, would they not take a customer engine and re-badge them? Or is their some grey area regulation with regard to that?

[SGWilko]

Lotus Petronas

Sounds like something Hermione Granger would say while waving her wand... :laugh:

[SGWilko]

Protolot?

Like it! We could refer to the team members as;

The Knights that go 'Ni' :rotflmao:

[V12]

With ties to Petronas, would they not take a customer engine and re-badge them? Or is their some grey area regulation with regard to that?

I suppose the arrangement with Ferrari could be re-started I guess!

Having said that, since the end of 2005 there has been no engine-badging, not sure if that's because Ferrari suddenly decided they wanted their name alongside Red Bull, Spyker, Toro Rosso and Force India, or because regulations linked to engine homologation said the engine could ONLY be called a Ferrari, Toyota, Mercedes etc. even in customer form.

I do remember though that in 2001 when Prost signed a Ferrari customer deal similar to what Sauber had at the time, Ferrari actually refused to allow the cars to be known as Prost-Ferraris, so they had to go with that horrible "Acer" name (made it sound like it was powered by a computer fan or something!), and Prost didn't get much money (comparitively speaking) for it either. So as I say, from 2006 (with Red Bull) onwards, Ferrari must have either had a change of heart regarding customer engine policy, or there was a change of regulation.