Kimi's future - No racing in 2010? [Archive] - Page 4

Bezza

18th November 2009, 08:49

I certainly think F1 will be a poorer place without Kimi in 2010. A sabatical is not an option in F1 as there is far to fierce competition to get a seat. Sitting out for 12 months and missing valuable race time is not attractive for potential employers and this will be a grave mistake should he wish to come back IMO.

Kimi would certainly be my first choice for the Mclaren seat, but I'm just abit dissappointed that his management seem to have based their negotiations purely on salary. Maybe it was a misjudgement by not thinking anyone else would enter the frame. :(

Kimi has a contract with Red Bull for 2011 and will come back refreshed and ready.

Vettel will be off to Mercedes in 2011 and thats where Kimi comes in, with Heidfeld the one-year stop gap until then.

I'll check this in a year - bet you I'm right :)

Mark

18th November 2009, 08:49

I don't know, ever since he won the championship he hasn't looked at all bothered!

DexDexter

18th November 2009, 08:50

I certainly think F1 will be a poorer place without Kimi in 2010. A sabatical is not an option in F1 as there is far to fierce competition to get a seat. Sitting out for 12 months and missing valuable race time is not attractive for potential employers and this will be a grave mistake should he wish to come back IMO.

Kimi would certainly be my first choice for the Mclaren seat, but I'm just abit dissappointed that his management seem to have based their negotiations purely on salary. Maybe it was a misjudgement by not thinking anyone else would enter the frame. :(

I never liked the Robertsons anyway, Keke Rosberg was always the best man to manage Finnish drivers. When Mika Häkkinen was driving and he had Keke as a manager, you sort of knew that a deal would be reached, cause Keke was/is just so good at it (even getting JJ Lehto a drive at Benetton). Keke wisely told Nico not to go to Mclaren as a sidekick to Lewis and look where he is now, number one driver for Mercedes.

F1boat

18th November 2009, 08:52

Nobody really knows, but he was very quick from the go, posting similar times with very promising Finnish rally drivers (who had a similar car) in Jyväskylä. Anyway, I'm not interested in rallying at all, couldn't care less, sorry rally fans.

I feel for you. But I am always interested when drivers change their discipline.

I am evil Homer

18th November 2009, 09:28

Shame...F1 is poorer without Kimi. Still at least we may get De La Rosa back :S

SGWilko

18th November 2009, 09:32

Shame...F1 is poorer without Kimi. Still at least we may get De La Rosa back :S

With Raikkonen out the way, who is going to crash into Sutil now?

Julle69

18th November 2009, 09:39

To all the Finns, how serious is Kimi about the WRC?
My opinion is that rallying is only a nice hobby for Kimi. Despite he was setting promising stage times in Neste Rally there is really long way to be in TOP. And if Kimi is seriously driving only winning is target and he can't get it in WRC in short time. He should make 3-5 years commitment to rallying to see if he is capable to be a winning driver also in rally world. I don't think he will do that. I heard from the media that Kimi is planning to do few rallies and maybe Le Mans next year. Let's hope he will make a come back for 2011. But still McLaren or Mercedes hasn't announced all their drivers!

Sonic

18th November 2009, 09:43

Well that's a blow!

Something is wrong with Formula one when a very recent WDC is left out in the cold.

Will he be a Prost and come back and add another WDC to his record? Or a Mika, who found he just never rediscovered the fire to return.

leopard

18th November 2009, 09:47

With Raikkonen out the way, who is going to crash into Sutil now?
not only sutil :rotflmao:

a pity if great driver like kimi has no ride next year, aren't there any new teams' seat empty, it is still good than remains without job...

Jarno

18th November 2009, 10:14

a pity if great driver like kimi has no ride next year, aren't there any new teams' seat empty, it is still good than remains without job...

Is it really? After winning teams such as Mclaren and Ferrari to go and drive around in the middle of the pack? I don't think so. I think that kind of steps down are for drivers who don't realize to quit (no names mentioned).

After things didn't work out with McHamilton, Kimi had two bad choices to choose from and I think he chose the right one.

F1boat

18th November 2009, 10:39

My opinion is that rallying is only a nice hobby for Kimi. Despite he was setting promising stage times in Neste Rally there is really long way to be in TOP. And if Kimi is seriously driving only winning is target and he can't get it in WRC in short time. He should make 3-5 years commitment to rallying to see if he is capable to be a winning driver also in rally world. I don't think he will do that. I heard from the media that Kimi is planning to do few rallies and maybe Le Mans next year. Let's hope he will make a come back for 2011. But still McLaren or Mercedes hasn't announced all their drivers!

You are right about rallying. but Le Mans is a good choice, IMO he will be very competitive there.

jas123f1

18th November 2009, 10:47

To all the Finns, how serious is Kimi about the WRC?

He is very good - but so are the other drivers.
I think Kimi needs a year or so..then we can se..I hope he gets a car and take this year to practise Rally on the top level .. get a feeling for it..
But the guy is very good for all motorsport with speed ..a natural talent … especially asphalt rallies would be interesting..

It’s unpleasant that banks can pay out one of the best drivers on the greed..

Koz

18th November 2009, 10:51

Who is preparing Solberg's cars next year?
He needs funding to run? Even Gronholm wants to race in Petters team?
Any potential for Kimi with them? Rather than in S2k?

Josti

18th November 2009, 11:51

Anyway, I'm not interested in rallying at all, couldn't care less, sorry rally fans.

Wow, are you a real Finn?! :p

Ranger

18th November 2009, 11:56

Kimi only wants a championship winning car and according to his manager, is "too good for anything else".

...Here's a fact: Kimi had a title-winning car last year and got soundly beaten by his own team-mate.

I don't see why any team would pay good money for a driver who will only give 100% on a string of conditions.

He is quickly turning into the new JV.

jens

18th November 2009, 12:10

Hmm... To make a small summary, I have to mention that I never really managed to particularly warm towards Kimi, with his personality being too cold to my liking. I know stories about him being "different" behind the scenes and cameras, but in public he really left an impression of a man with a mask, without giving much of a guess what kind of a (mysterious) person he really is. If I had met him, he may well leave a completely another impression, but at the moment it's all a bit "meh". But to take a view from a positive angle - he is in a way different to others, and there are barely any, who can really be compared to him in terms of personality.

Career? The McLaren days were really very impressive, but the whole Ferrari stint put him into a slightly different light, giving a view of him from another angle, maybe exposing his weaknesses more clearly than they were visible in McLaren. But if there is any driver in F1, who I have felt is slightly overrated, I have to concede it's got to be Kimi. But still - he is fast, very fast, one of the fastest. When I'm thinking about his most impressive drive thus far, Monaco 2005 is the first one that springs to my mind.

I have to say that I like Kimi's ambition that Kulta wrote about in his article - to become the first man to win both F1 and WRC titles. It's nice to see people setting themselves quite extraordinary goals and I hope he is going to pursue his dream of achieving something completely new and unprecedented in the history of motorsports. Now that would be a truly historic achievement.

DexDexter

18th November 2009, 12:34

Wow, are you a real Finn?! :p

Typical misconception, rallying is not as popular in Finland as F1. It was very popular back in the 80's with Markku Alen etc. but the popularity has declined a lot.

So in 2010 Kimi will do nothing (or a couple of rallies) while Ferrari pay him more than any current F1 driver. That still sounds incredibly stupid.

maximilian

18th November 2009, 13:30

You do know that he is actually one of the most popular current F1 drivers? Outside his native country as well. It's a sad day for F1 that a driver like Kimi is not there in 2010. Yes the guy is different, shy, introvert (even for a Finn) but the reason I like him so much is that he does what he wants and cannot be controlled by any corporate types or anybody else. That's rare in F1 these days, most of the drivers are puppets of the teams.
I agree with you, there is no doubt he is popular for his definite speed and different personality, and although I don't really like him, I clearly give him credit for that. From a team and sponsor's point of view, however, he remains an expensive and difficult to work with driver, which pretty much explains why he didn't get a seat (and why Ferrari wanted to get rid of him, despite him being the better driver than Massa).

The whole "McLaren or nothing" attitude itself further illustrates that. If he doesn't have enough motivation to race in F1, which other drivers would KILL for, then maybe he shouldn't...

Josti

18th November 2009, 13:37

Typical misconception, rallying is not as popular in Finland as F1. It was very popular back in the 80's with Markku Alen etc. but the popularity has declined a lot.

Yeah, I was joking, I know rallying can't be as popular as F1, even in Finland. But you, as a motorsport fan I pressume, to not care about it while Finland holds great successes in the sport throughout five decades surprises me.

DexDexter

18th November 2009, 13:52

Yeah, I was joking, I know rallying can't be as popular as F1, even in Finland. But you, as a motorsport fan I pressume, to not care about it while Finland holds great successes in the sport throughout five decades surprises me.

Yep, I don't care about a discipline where people don't race each other, but that's just me, I know our moderator loves rallying, and I admit it's nice to watch it in Jyväskylä with a can of beer :) .

truefan72

18th November 2009, 14:58

Well, at the end it was a sensible decision for him.

the money was too good and if he wasn't going to race for Mclaren then he might as well sit a year out and enjoy counting the cash from Ferrari. Then he comes back a year or two later, rejuvenated and in a highly sought after status and takes another run at things.

Even if he does not come back, he has had an excellent career, won a championship, drove for two of the best teams, made out with a load of cash and left the sport, alive well, young and a lifetime ahead of him to do whatever he wants.

Not a bad position to be in I say ;)

Firstgear

18th November 2009, 15:23

Well, a number of us on this board (myself included) have stated over the last year that Kimi doesn't seem too motivated in F1. I think this latest move pretty much confirms it. Money was his first consideration, eventhough he already has more than he can spend in a lifetime.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we'll see him back in F1. Much like Montoya, he'll find out how much fun life can be without all the "behind the scenes" commitments and BS in F1.

I am evil Homer

18th November 2009, 15:41

Seems a little childish to be paid what £8m + and yet moan about having to do some sponsorship day events when they pay your wages. Poor things, however do they cope?

Maybe it's best for Kimi to leave.

christophulus

18th November 2009, 17:36

Well, a number of us on this board (myself included) have stated over the last year that Kimi doesn't seem too motivated in F1. I think this latest move pretty much confirms it. Money was his first consideration, eventhough he already has more than he can spend in a lifetime.

I agree completely. He could've raced for free next year, and with the Ferrari pay off he'd still have earned more than most drivers. If he'd been seriously committed to F1 he'd have taken the offer from McLaren. I doubt he'll return.

pettersolberg29

18th November 2009, 17:44

harvick#1

18th November 2009, 18:00

ioan

18th November 2009, 18:01

Raikkonen's career is far from over.

Dream on.

He wasn't in it since he won the Championship in 2007, no matter what he and his fans said he wasn't really driving as a hungry driver.

His mind is now on WRC and if he does acceptably next season than he is bound to stay there.

ioan

18th November 2009, 18:02

Is it just me who thinks Kimi is a greedy moron?

I'm not sure if it's him or Robertson, but for once they pulled the shorter stick and I'm happy with that.

ioan

18th November 2009, 18:05

Then he comes back a year or two later, rejuvenated and in a highly sought after status and takes another run at things.

It will not happen he's not the kind of person who can make the sacrifices needed to stay in shape for 2 years while not driving an F1 car every 2nd week.

He's been dreaming about WRC for years now, so he'll do just that, have fun.

slinkster

18th November 2009, 18:06

I wish him well with this. I hope it reignites some of the feist and passion that he seemed to lose in the last year or so. Good luck Kimi!

K-Pu

18th November 2009, 19:03

You can think Kimi is in the best position to do whatever he wants, but you cn also think that this demonstrates how unmotivated he is in F1.

If someone goes to work and says this, what would you think?

Hey man, I will only work for this guy and I´ll get as much as I ask. If not, bye bye.

That´s the impression I get from the last events. Kimi has put some very clear conditions which have been (supposedly) not met, he gets more money than any other pilot without even having to race and he can go and do some rallying, Le Mans or tree climbing. Yes, the best position one could dream with, but as an F1 fan I´d like to see him more commited to F1 although he has nothing more to demonstrate me. In fact, I´ve always liked him because he is deadly erratic and fast, but this is only my (possibly stupid) opinion.

rabf1

18th November 2009, 19:25

He had a good career. Now he can relax and party with no worries. I'm happy for him.

OutRun

18th November 2009, 19:52

He could always pay a visit to Mercedes GP.

JRodrigues

18th November 2009, 22:54

And that's what they are saying

http://esporte.ig.com.br/grandepremio/formula1/2009/11/18/raikkonen+assina+com+mercedes+para+2010+afirma+jor nalista+9125594.html

Koz

19th November 2009, 00:05

Could all have been a publicity stunt by Merc to get Kimi in the hot seat?

I find this hard to believe...

Edit: If this proves true, this is very pathetic on Kimi's manager's part.

Valve Bounce

19th November 2009, 00:18

And that's what they are saying

http://esporte.ig.com.br/grandepremio/formula1/2009/11/18/raikkonen+assina+com+mercedes+para+2010+afirma+jor nalista+9125594.html

That all sounds like Greek to me :(

Valve Bounce

19th November 2009, 03:00

Here's the latest from Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80187

It does seem that Kimi only wanted a drive with McLaren which he considered :Raikkonen said last month that, in the wake of being released from his Ferrari contract, his only option to remain in F1 was with McLaren - because he wanted to be guaranteed a top-line grand prix car.

Maybe we can also draw a line from this as to why Bunsen wanted to go to McLaren, probably because he realised that had he remained at Brawn (now Mercedes) he would have had great difficulty keeping up with the McLaren drivers.

Roamy

19th November 2009, 03:56

well he probably just wants to sit on the sidelines collecting his 45 mil. Seeing how Mercedes has signed Nico and JV there is no top seat left unless Force India does something. He could probably get a ride there anytime.

Koz

19th November 2009, 04:16

Saint Devote

19th November 2009, 04:25

Kimi has a contract with Red Bull for 2011 and will come back refreshed and ready.

Vettel will be off to Mercedes in 2011 and thats where Kimi comes in, with Heidfeld the one-year stop gap until then.

I'll check this in a year - bet you I'm right :)

Aren't you forgetting Nico Hulkenberg? There are high expectstions for him - since Hamilton no other driver has entered f1 with such credentials.

If he acquits himself extremely well in the Williams I am sure there will be a bid by the "Vaderland" for his services at Mercedes Benz as it lloks to be a German driver only team from now on.

Wonder if Mercedes will really leave Ross Brawn to run things - the tempation to interfere may prove too much.

F1boat

19th November 2009, 06:29

Wonder if Mercedes will really leave Ross Brawn to run things - the tempation to interfere may prove too much.

If they do so, they may end up like the old Honda.

Julle69

19th November 2009, 06:47

Now Raikkonen's camp admits they will consider Mercedes...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80215

Roamy

19th November 2009, 07:11

Jacques Villeneuve???
Magic mushrooms are not good for you.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

link you say:

http://www.imakesh!tup.com
or
http://totalf1.com/details/view/325736/Villeneuve_resumes_intensive_training/

Roamy

19th November 2009, 07:20

Btw all BS aside Kimi has now said he will consider the Mercedes seat

TMorel

19th November 2009, 07:40

Give it another week and the realisation of being out will kick in and he'll be saying that he will consider USF1 or Lotus too.

Take the bloody offer Kimi!

Big Ben

19th November 2009, 07:53

I really hope he goes to Mercedes. It would be a shame to see one of the best leave. Hakkinen pulled the same trick on me... I really don't see these sabbatical years viable.

and btw what's the deal with Mclaren? are they that desperate to have that number one on their car? This would be their 3rd year in the last 4 they would have it although they won only once.

F1boat

19th November 2009, 08:13

If Kimi goes to Mercedes... I doubt it. It seems illogical and impossible. If he indeed goes to Mercedes I think that it was orchestrated from the beginning, a big theatre. But I doubt it...

DexDexter

19th November 2009, 08:21

Aren't you forgetting Nico Hulkenberg? There are high expectstions for him - since Hamilton no other driver has entered f1 with such credentials.

If he acquits himself extremely well in the Williams I am sure there will be a bid by the "Vaderland" for his services at Mercedes Benz as it lloks to be a German driver only team from now on.

Wonder if Mercedes will really leave Ross Brawn to run things - the tempation to interfere may prove too much.

When did Mercedes state that it is going to be an all-German team? Currently they have signed a driver whose grandmother and aunt used to live in my hometown and there are definitely no Germans there. I'd say they are pretty international so far. :)

christophulus

19th November 2009, 08:38

So Mercedes won't pay for Button, but will pay for Kimi? Odd choice..

Valve Bounce

19th November 2009, 08:50

So Mercedes won't pay for Button, but will pay for Kimi? Odd choice..

Nick Fry did suggest that Bunsen's departure was not about money. Maybe both Kimi and Bunsen thought that McLaren was the best chance next year for wins and podiums.

Dave B

19th November 2009, 09:13

So Mercedes won't pay for Button, but will pay for Kimi? Odd choice..
Yes, but Kimi's price has just crashed. If he wants to be in F1, in a competitive team, he'll have to resign himself to taking whatever he's offered. Mercedes-Brawnz could pick up the bargain of the year! I'm sure the payoff from Ferrari will be adequate consolation.

DexDexter

19th November 2009, 09:15

So Mercedes won't pay for Button, but will pay for Kimi? Odd choice..

I don't know, Kimi is a far better driver than Button, according to statistics at least.

Sonic

19th November 2009, 11:47

Btw all BS aside Kimi has now said he will consider the Mercedes seat

Just goes to prove what we've always known about Kimi. He just wants to race, and he doesn't care about the BS.

His management team were pushing for big bucks and it failed, and now kimi wants any ride he can get.

jens

19th November 2009, 12:43

This silly season is like a soap opera already. "I want to race, don't want to race, want to race, ..." Bah.

keysersoze

19th November 2009, 17:42

Just goes to prove what we've always known about Kimi. He just wants to race, and he doesn't care about the BS.

His management team were pushing for big bucks and it failed, and now kimi wants any ride he can get.

Any ride he can get? That's CLEARLY not the case. He will only CONSIDER Brawn at this point--you know, the current WCC. I haven't read about him dialing up Vijay.

Kimi's crawdaddy-ing out of his prior position only proves what we REALLY know about Kimi. He only wants to drive a front-running car, AND he wants to be paid well to do it. He doesn't "just want to race"--that's patently obvious. :rolleyes:

Sonic

19th November 2009, 17:56

Any ride he can get? That's CLEARLY not the case. He will only CONSIDER Brawn at this point--you know, the current WCC. I haven't read about him dialing up Vijay.

Kimi's crawdaddy-ing out of his prior position only proves what we REALLY know about Kimi. He only wants to drive a front-running car, AND he wants to be paid well to do it. He doesn't "just want to race"--that's patently obvious. :rolleyes:

No. Kimi just wants to race - of course with the very best machinery, he's a WDC after all! Its his agents job to get him into the best seat available; That was clearly McLare. Now that door has closed he's looking at the next best. Clearly this will not go on all the way down the grid to FI, to use your example, but if he gets no joy in F1 he'll go to another series because (big finish here!) he wants to race! .

pettersolberg29

19th November 2009, 18:02

I get the point Sonic, but I'm with keysersoze on this one. Kimi or his agent is ridiculously greedy. As I said yesterday, Kimi wanted a top seat = McLaren. McLaren offered him the seat and upwards of 5m a year (fortune to anyone else). He says no as the contract isnt good enough.
To me that sounds like a greedy moneybags who doesnt deserve to be in the sport. Good riddance - glad to get rid of one of the most dull racers and people in F1.
And you say he wants to race as if thats an unusually good skill. All F1 drivers want to race, and all of them more than Kimi in my opinion. I want to race, my hamster wants to race etc. Kimi doesnt want to race otherwise he'd go to Renault, Sauber, FI or one of the new teams.
Timo Glock - now there's a man who wants to race and has done it the right way.

tec4

19th November 2009, 18:04

Yes, but Kimi's price has just crashed. If he wants to be in F1, in a competitive team, he'll have to resign himself to taking whatever he's offered. Mercedes-Brawnz could pick up the bargain of the year! I'm sure the payoff from Ferrari will be adequate consolation.
Ferrari is paying Kimi, a salary similar to Hamilton's, to go Rally racing, which seems obvious, what Kimi actually wants, after Ferrari nightmare season.

Wining races in a 2009 Ferrari proves that Kimi can race anything, even a Rally racecar -- a more suitable place to prove Kimi wizardry.

Sonic

19th November 2009, 18:24

Bagwan

19th November 2009, 19:21

As I have understood things , Kimi gets $17mill from Ferrari if he doesn't race . He still gets $10mill from them if he does land a drive elsewhere .
Therefore , he must secure $7mill to drive there or he loses money .

Mac offered $6mill , and if he turned a wheel , he'd lose $1mill .

If Merc offers more , he will consider it .

Have I got this right ?

ioan

19th November 2009, 19:23

Bagwan

19th November 2009, 19:35

Looks like it to me. He's in for the money and nothing more. :\

To me , the question of whether I would not get in a car for a million bucks is easy . Drive a truck and collect .

For Kimi , it should also be easy , with the other $16million in pocket .

The trick is , though , he's already seen the top , and has other passions to fall back on , so , driving something else might not feel so bad .

ioan

19th November 2009, 19:38

To me , the question of whether I would not get in a car for a million bucks is easy . Drive a truck and collect .

For Kimi , it should also be easy , with the other $16million in pocket .

The trick is , though , he's already seen the top , and has other passions to fall back on , so , driving something else might not feel so bad .

IMO it's the Robertson guy too, he is in it for the money, and he probably gets a huge chunk of that million too.

Sonic

19th November 2009, 19:52

IMO it's the Robertson guy too, he is in it for the money, and he probably gets a huge chunk of that million too.

My feeling too.

Garry Walker

19th November 2009, 20:20

Is it just me who thinks Kimi is a greedy moron?

He says he wants to drive a Championship winning car e.g. McLaren. McLaren offer him a deal. He rejects it! It doesn't matter how much was offered, the 45m he got last year should sort him for life.

I have to say I really despise the man now.

You have no idea what kind of a deal McLaren offered or how the negotiations went. Issues for KR in that deal were
1) How many rallies he can take part in
2) PR-days
3) Money
4) What Hamilton thought of the whole deal.

They obviously couldnt reach a conclusion satisfactory to both parties and
that is it.
Dont make it sound as simple as you think it was.

So Mercedes won't pay for Button, but will pay for Kimi? Odd choice..

Because Button is a nobody

Good riddance - glad to get rid of one of the most dull racers and people in F1.
Heidfeld might still get a seat in F1, dont count him out.

gloomyDAY

19th November 2009, 20:34

So Mercedes won't pay for Button, but will pay for Kimi? Odd choice..

Because Button is a nobody.lol!

I still have no idea why Button chose to switch to McLaren. Hamilton is going to beat him and then Button will probably bitch about being #2.

Kimi may not have gone for McLaren because of their strict terms, but as Kimi said, "It's not the end of the world."

pettersolberg29

19th November 2009, 20:51

You have no idea what kind of a deal McLaren offered or how the negotiations went. Issues for KR in that deal were
1) How many rallies he can take part in
2) PR-days
3) Money
4) What Hamilton thought of the whole deal.

They obviously couldnt reach a conclusion satisfactory to both parties and
that is it.
Dont make it sound as simple as you think it was.

Heidfeld might still get a seat in F1, dont count him out.

But if Kimi wants a drive, he should have taken whatever deal was offered. McLaren wouldn't be that stingy, and a rally deal must have been negotiable in my opinion.

As for your swipe at Nick, I'll take that humorously otherwise I'll start being rude ;)

Sonic

19th November 2009, 21:01

lol!

I still have no idea why Button chose to switch to McLaren. Hamilton is going to beat him and then Button will probably bitch about being #2.

Well he did bitch for the last 10 years about one thing or another so its a fair bet.

ioan

19th November 2009, 22:07

You have no idea what kind of a deal McLaren offered or how the negotiations went. Issues for KR in that deal were
1) How many rallies he can take part in
2) PR-days
3) Money
4) What Hamilton thought of the whole deal.

I have a feeling that Robertson/Kimi didn't want to go head to head with Lewis in the same car.
Maybe they don't want Kimi's market value to drop even further if he is beaten again by a team mate.

Looks like LdM pushed MS into retirement because most probably Kimi wouldn't have joined Ferrari with MS around.

Not sure if it's Kimi or Robertson who decides, but Kimi could go his way if he doesn't agree, so...

4mula1

19th November 2009, 23:18

i hope kimi has not forgot about indycar series :s mokin:

ShiftingGears

20th November 2009, 00:13

Why would he bother remembering about IndyCar in the first place?

raikk

20th November 2009, 07:55

I'm disappointed in Kimi and Mclaren ...I highly doubt Kimi will be in race shape for 2011 if he is thinking about going to F1 ..I think We have seen Kimi's last race in F1..

Dave B

20th November 2009, 08:23

If (and as usual it's a big "IF") Kimi does leave F1, would he go down in history as one of the biggest wasted talents? One championship, obviously, and that should never be dismissed lightly; but you get the sense that he could have achieved so much more.

Garry Walker

22nd November 2009, 14:24

I have a feeling that Robertson/Kimi didn't want to go head to head with Lewis in the same car.

Hilarious stuff, true comedy.
Then why did they say McLaren is the only option? Did they think McLaren would fire Hamilton?

Garry Walker

22nd November 2009, 14:26

But if Kimi wants a drive, he should have taken whatever deal was offered. McLaren wouldn't be that stingy, and a rally deal must have been negotiable in my opinion.

Well, Red Bull banned Vettel from taking part of any rallies. You think McLaren would not do that? Besides that, McLaren is known for requiring many PR-duties from their drivers.

Take whatever deal you are offered? I take it you have never negotiated your job contract? Great, next time I need to hire a person for minimum wage, I will give you a call. After all, accept whatever deal you are offered.

ioan

22nd November 2009, 15:23

Hilarious stuff, true comedy.
Then why did they say McLaren is the only option? Did they think McLaren would fire Hamilton?

Than why didn't they accept what McLaren proposed to them? Let us know when you find some SF answer to this question.

Garry Walker

22nd November 2009, 15:47

Than why didn't they accept what McLaren proposed to them? Let us know when you find some SF answer to this question.

You still have not shown us the logic why Kimi would say he is only interested in McLaren (ruling him out of other options), while according to you, he is afraid of Hamilton and does not want to team up with him.
Explain that.

pettersolberg29

22nd November 2009, 15:50

Take whatever deal you are offered? I take it you have never negotiated your job contract? Great, next time I need to hire a person for minimum wage, I will give you a call. After all, accept whatever deal you are offered.

If you want me to drive for McLaren, possibly the best team in F1, for minimum wage then I'll be there. Its not exactly as if they offered him a pittance is it? It would have been at least 5/6 million, yes million, euros.

Garry Walker

22nd November 2009, 16:07

If you want me to drive for McLaren, possibly the best team in F1, for minimum wage then I'll be there.Don`t worry, I wouldnt offer someone like you anything more than a job cleaning the toilets from fecal matter.

Its not exactly as if they offered him a pittance is it? It would have been at least 5/6 million, yes million, euros.

To argue his case is frankly pathetic.
1) You do not know what was offered him moneywise, you can only speculate.
At least 5/6 million? I am not sure that was the case at all.
2) As I said before, there are other things besides money that were important for consideration for KR. Rallying and PR-work for sure. If what McLaren offered regarding those were clearly unacceptable to him, why would he need to accept the offer? But you keep going on with your money nonsense and ignore everything else.

The only pathetic one is you despising someone over things you have no idea about

pettersolberg29

22nd November 2009, 16:23

Don`t worry, I wouldnt offer someone like you anything more than a job cleaning the toilets from fecal matter.

You really are an unpleasant old man aren't you.

1) You do not know what was offered him moneywise, you can only speculate.
At least 5/6 million? I am not sure that was the case at all.
2) As I said before, there are other things besides money that were important for consideration for KR. Rallying and PR-work for sure. If what McLaren offered regarding those were clearly unacceptable to him, why would he need to accept the offer? But you keep going on with your money nonsense and ignore everything else.

The only pathetic one is you despising someone over things you have no idea about

If you think McLaren would offer Kimi less than 5 million then you're the one who has no idea about anything. And it matters not one bit about PR duty and rallying - he says he wants to race. If he so desperately wants to race he should do it for free, spend every other day doing PR work and give up rallying till later.
Before you complain again, I am obviously exaggerating a bit r.e. PR and wages but surely you get the message.

Garry Walker

22nd November 2009, 16:31

You really are an unpleasant old man aren't you. Well I can hire people only to do things they are qualified at :rotflmao:

If you think McLaren would offer Kimi less than 5 million then you're the one who has no idea about anything.Neither of us has any facts regarding that.

And it matters not one bit about PR duty and rallying - he says he wants to race. If he so desperately wants to race he should do it for free, spend every other day doing PR work and give up rallying till later.
Before you complain again, I am obviously exaggerating a bit r.e. PR and wages but surely you get the message.
I get the message all right.
If he says he wants to race, he should do it on the terms of others and what he himself wants (other than racing) should be irrelevant and he should just accept it and bend over.

pettersolberg29

22nd November 2009, 16:35

Well I can hire people only to do things they are qualified at :rotflmao:
Its not my fault I had a poor education!

Neither of us has any facts regarding that.
But you dont believe he was offered less than 5 million do you?

I get the message all right.
If he says he wants to race, he should do it on the terms of others and what he himself wants (other than racing) should be irrelevant and he should just accept it and bend over.

You've put it in a more brutal way, but put simply, yes. If he wanted to race, and rally, and do less PR, then he could have gone to FI or Toro Rosso. But he wouldn't because of money and bad car. To me that means he doesnt want to race that much.

Garry Walker

22nd November 2009, 16:41

Its not my fault I had a poor education!
Yes, it is.

But you dont believe he was offered less than 5 million do you?
I dont know. Nor do you.

You've put it in a more brutal way, but put simply, yes. If he wanted to race, and rally, and do less PR, then he could have gone to FI or Toro Rosso. But he wouldn't because of money and bad car. To me that means he doesnt want to race that much.
He does want to race, but on his own conditions. When you have gotten so far in your life that you can do things on your own terms only, then you are a happy person. Try it, I guarantee it feels good.

pettersolberg29

22nd November 2009, 16:44

This discussion isn't going anywhere. I know you're wrong, you think I'm wrong. You're obvioulsy quite a sarcastic and bitter person, so I'll leave now before this descends into a slinging match.

keysersoze

22nd November 2009, 17:06

peter, IMO you aren't wrong. :cool:

keysersoze

22nd November 2009, 17:07

i hope kimi has not forgot about indycar series :s mokin:

The American fans have forgotten about the ICS, so Kimi in his vodka-induced fog has surely forgotten about it, too. :p

pettersolberg29

22nd November 2009, 17:08

Thanks keysersoze!

Garry Walker

22nd November 2009, 18:49

This discussion isn't going anywhere. I know you're wrong, you think I'm wrong. You're obvioulsy quite a sarcastic and bitter person, so I'll leave now before this descends into a slinging match.
The only bitterness we have here is your bitterness that McLaren Mercedes dumped useless Heidfeld and bought Kimi instead back in 2001. :rotflmao: Talk about being a fanboy.
As for sarcasm, yes, I admit to being guilty of that. Stupidity of some people often brings that side of me up.

pettersolberg29

22nd November 2009, 18:53

The only bitterness we have here is your bitterness that McLaren Mercedes dumped useless Heidfeld and bought Kimi instead back in 2001. :rotflmao: Talk about being a fanboy.
As for sarcasm, yes, I admit to being guilty of that. Stupidity of some people often brings that side of me up.

Ouch

pino

22nd November 2009, 19:20

Let's quit personal comments/attacks...thank you!

pettersolberg29

22nd November 2009, 19:30

I appreciate that you're a moderator and that you have a responsibility, but it was only a bit of banter. We were still discussing F1 more than anything else.

PSfan

22nd November 2009, 20:19

Than why didn't they accept what McLaren proposed to them? Let us know when you find some SF answer to this question.

I thought the answer was pretty clear. McLeran offered Kimi probably the same $ that Button offered to drive for, and Kimi would make more money sitting at home thanks to Ferrari.

If McLeran had the Budget, they should have ignored the money Ferrari where paying kimi and offered what he was worth which would be probably in the 8-10mil range instead of thinking they could get a deal because Kimi was already being paid. But as it stands McLerans is probably already paying more on Hamilton + Button then they have ever paid for 2 drivers, one has to assume they didn't really have the money to give Kimi what he wanted.

ioan

22nd November 2009, 22:03

You still have not shown us the logic why Kimi would say he is only interested in McLaren (ruling him out of other options), while according to you, he is afraid of Hamilton and does not want to team up with him.
Explain that.

You want me to explain something I already explained but you wouldn't explain your part? Nice try.

ioan

22nd November 2009, 22:08

I thought the answer was pretty clear. McLeran offered Kimi probably the same $ that Button offered to drive for, and Kimi would make more money sitting at home thanks to Ferrari.

If McLeran had the Budget, they should have ignored the money Ferrari where paying kimi and offered what he was worth which would be probably in the 8-10mil range instead of thinking they could get a deal because Kimi was already being paid. But as it stands McLerans is probably already paying more on Hamilton + Button then they have ever paid for 2 drivers, one has to assume they didn't really have the money to give Kimi what he wanted.

I don't think money was the problem, IMO Kimi would have lost too Lewis and he and Robertson know this so they saved face asking for an insane amount of money (for a driver who didn't prove much the last couple of seasons, while continuing to say that they would like to get a contract with McLaren.

Any driver who gets beaten by his team mate loses market value and that's something the manager doesn't want to happen. What I don't understand is why Kimi didn't chose himself to drive for McLaren for the millions they offered him when he already got plenty of money from Ferrari?!

ioan

22nd November 2009, 22:09

If you want me to drive for McLaren, possibly the best team in F1, for minimum wage then I'll be there. Its not exactly as if they offered him a pittance is it? It would have been at least 5/6 million, yes million, euros.

Totally agree.

Valve Bounce

22nd November 2009, 22:17

I just wonder whether McLaren felt that Bunsen might be the better team mate for Lewis than Kimi.

PSfan

22nd November 2009, 22:44

I don't think money was the problem, IMO Kimi would have lost too Lewis and he and Robertson know this so they saved face asking for an insane amount of money (for a driver who didn't prove much the last couple of seasons, while continuing to say that they would like to get a contract with McLaren.

I'm inclined to go with Gerry on this, Lewis is a constant at McLeran so why would Kimi's team mention that it was McLeran or nothing prior to the Mercedes announcement. And we will never know what Kimi's insane asking price, we do know Button signed for less then what Kimi would have to sign for to break even with what Ferrari are paying for him to stay home.

Any driver who gets beaten by his team mate loses market value and that's something the manager doesn't want to happen. What I don't understand is why Kimi didn't chose himself to drive for McLaren for the millions they offered him when he already got plenty of money from Ferrari?!

I really don't think being beat by Lewis would have been much concern for Kimi. He didn't seem fazed much by being out-performed by Massa. One could say why ask for more money from McLeran when he was already getting alot of money from Ferrari, but thats a pretty simple explanation. the Ferrari money is a one year deal only... so as it stands in 2010 Kimi will be making $17 mil to stay home or would have made $16 mil to race at McLeran. But come 2011 it would be harder to ask for his true market value after he accepted only $6mil from McLeran

jas123f1

22nd November 2009, 23:59

Than why didn't they accept what McLaren proposed to them? Let us know when you find some SF answer to this question.
I think the problem is that Ferrari pays Kimi 17 million if he DON'T drive next season, but "only" 10 million if he participate in some team in F1..

So the new team must pay 7 million or Kimi "lose" money – and if the McLaren offer was 5 million as rumours tells - then that would be 2 million $ minus for Kimi, I think that’s the main reason for the idea to go to Rally next season. Kimi like F1 but also Rally.. Maybe he thinks that let Ferrari pay - Kimi didn't like to leave Ferrari - but when the Santander was there their money and Ferrari kick out their latest Champion (for money) so let them pay - 17 million dollar. Kimi is a big talent and the best paid driver on the greed - but he can’t drive. Thanks to Ferrari..

Now it looks that people in Mercedes GP are interested of Kimi - maybe - (and Norbert Haug and Kimi know each other very well) under thus conditions – maybe it’s possible to make a construction where a good result for Kimi also pays him that much that he gets his money. I think the car is no problem; it should fit Kimi very well.

But everything tells that Kimi doesn’t drive F1 next season.. Rally – possible, I would like to see him in F1 but Rally with Kimi would be interesting as well.

:)

keysersoze

23rd November 2009, 00:51

If Kimi doesn't race F1 next season it is very likely that his value will go down significantly. And, as for the guys who win the 17 or so races up for grabs next season? Well, their values will go up.

If Kimi is concerned about money he best race next season. So what if he "loses" 2 million by racing--he stands to win races (and increase or maintain his market value) if he continues with Brawn.

F1boat

23rd November 2009, 06:52

I really don't think being beat by Lewis would have been much concern for Kimi.

I disagree. In 2008, when Massa startet to outperform him, on occasions his driving seemed frustrated and erratic, although he as usual didn't express it outside the cockpit. IMO Jenson tooked the beating from Rubens better and kept his cool.

jas123f1

23rd November 2009, 09:56

jas123f1

23rd November 2009, 11:37

Now when it's official that Nico is clear to Mercedes - the question is who will the other?

I would like to see Kimi there - Nico and Kimi = "Dream team"..

Garry Walker

23rd November 2009, 12:32

You want me to explain something I already explained but you wouldn't explain your part? Nice try.
You have not explained anything.
Let me try again.

Why did Kimi and The Robertsons say in public that McLaren is the only option for them, when they were in your view afraid of Hamilton?

jas123f1

23rd November 2009, 12:58

I have a feeling that Robertson/Kimi didn't want to go head to head with Lewis in the same car.
Maybe they don't want Kimi's market value to drop even further if he is beaten again by a team mate...

Really :)
I can see that you like Kimi - must be be your faforite driver :) ..

DexDexter

23rd November 2009, 16:11

Rallyper

23rd November 2009, 16:47

Now when it's official that Nico is clear to Mercedes - the question is who will the other?

I would like to see Kimi there - Nico and Kimi = "Dream team"..

Well, that will Nick Heidfeldt isn´t it?

So then Kimi can go on and be a world rally championship driver! :cool:

F1boat

23rd November 2009, 16:52

I don't think Kimi is afraid of Lewis, or anything for that matter, He just doesn't seem to think that way. IMO there was something else in the negotiations (unknown for us) that stopped the deal from getting done. Maybe indeed the Robertsons were to blame or Kimi had personal issues with people in the team. Who knows?

If there are personal issues, Kimi said some bad things about Ron, that he is control freak or something. Maybe Ron interfered.

ioan

23rd November 2009, 18:46

Thats never a good tactic to speak ill about your ex boss publically IMO. You never know what your options are going to be further down the line. I forgive Kimi, but then again who am I? :)

:eek: Are you implying that Ron would rather have Jenson instead of Kimi just because Kimi dared to say the truth about Ron being a control freak?!

F1boat

24th November 2009, 06:54

:eek: Are you implying that Ron would rather have Jenson instead of Kimi just because Kimi dared to say the truth about Ron being a control freak?!

If you have two champions, it'd be better to hire one, who claims good will to the team and is not grudgingly returning. I like Kimi very much, but it was very stupid to bash McLaren and Ron.

Rallyper

24th November 2009, 12:07

jas123f1

25th November 2009, 02:03

Rumours in Norway today says that Petter Solberg has confirmed that talks is going on with Kimi to join PSWRT in 2010. :D

That would be a two car team and Kimi expects to drive a S2000 car.

(That is doubted by me personally - Kimi wants to drive a WRC car to be able to win - even though he probably can win the S2000-class if it will be a competitionclass)

There are also rumours that Red Bull want to pay Kimi a year i WCR - and then take him to Red Bull F1 team 2011. I can believe that's true - maybe.. ?? and in other hand - Kimi should be perfect to Peters team – with little help from former finish WRC – champions.. like Tommy and Marcus .. can everything happen.. :)

Koz

25th November 2009, 03:50

There are also rumours that Red Bull want to pay Kimi a year i WCR - and then take him to Red Bull F1 team 2011. I can believe that's true - maybe.. ?? and in other hand - Kimi should be perfect to Peters team – with little help from former finish WRC – champions.. like Tommy and Marcus .. can everything happen.. :)

Is Tommi building the cars? They say Marcus is interested in driving in Petter's team if there is a budget?
Kimi, Marcus and Petter would surely bring in more than enough money and PR. Would be very interesting, but Marcus will beat Petter and both will utterly destroy Kimi, not sure he wants that...

But I agree, he will probably go RB and Citroen.

Dzeidzei

25th November 2009, 08:48

If you have two champions, it'd be better to hire one, who claims good will to the team and is not grudgingly returning. I like Kimi very much, but it was very stupid to bash McLaren and Ron.

This was only hearsay, altho its very likely Kimi has said something along these lines. However I dont think you´ll find a link to a direct quote from Kimi.

Dzeidzei

25th November 2009, 08:51

Rumours in Norway today says that Petter Solberg has confirmed that talks is going on with Kimi to join PSWRT in 2010. :D

That would be a two car team and Kimi expects to drive a S2000 car.

(That is doubted by me personally - Kimi wants to drive a WRC car to be able to win - even though he probably can win the S2000-class if it will be a competitionclass)

Those are no rumours. Finnish tv interviewed Petter ages ago (well, several weeks ago) and then he admitted having these talks with Kimi.

I do hope for the sake of F1 Kimi takes the Merc option. It would in effect make 2010 the mother of all seasons with Lewis, Jenson, Felipe, Freddie, Seb, Mark, Noci and Kimi all fighting head to head. Somehow I feel that if you take Kimi out of that equation you do loose quite a bit.

DexDexter

25th November 2009, 08:52

I disagree. In 2008, when Massa startet to outperform him, on occasions his driving seemed frustrated and erratic, although he as usual didn't express it outside the cockpit. IMO Jenson tooked the beating from Rubens better and kept his cool.

That is pure speculation, since as you said we really don't know what's going on in his head. Another possibility was that his driving seemed frustrated since the car wasn't to his liking which we know was the case at least sometimes.

555-04Q2

25th November 2009, 10:18

but it sent out the message that the team were 100% behind Massa because by this point

I highly doubt that Ferrari were favouring Massa when they were paying Kimi far more to drive the same car. If Kimi was the "number two" driver, he would have been paid far less. Kimi came to Ferrari to take over where Schumi left off.

Massa adapted well to the new car, Kimi did not.

bontebempo

25th November 2009, 10:33

henners88

25th November 2009, 10:39

not sure if its been said yet but good riddance to the little money grabbing twat. He did nothing for the many F1 fans out there. At least when he was good he entertained us in that way.

Dull boring little twat! Please don't come back!
You're right it hasn't been said before because most of the people here analyse a drivers ability based on circumstances and not whilst holding a beer in their hand and flicking back and forth from the football. ;)

Dzeidzei

25th November 2009, 10:49

I highly doubt that Ferrari were favouring Massa when they were paying Kimi far more to drive the same car. If Kimi was the "number two" driver, he would have been paid far less.

Well, Ferrari is paying Kimi well over 10million for NOT driving the car.

JRodrigues

25th November 2009, 12:27

I highly doubt that Ferrari were favouring Massa when they were paying Kimi far more to drive the same car. If Kimi was the "number two" driver, he would have been paid far less. Kimi came to Ferrari to take over where Schumi left off.

Massa adapted well to the new car, Kimi did not.

Do you know the Pearl Jam song "Nothing as it seems"?

JRodrigues

25th November 2009, 12:29

Indeed, Ferrari introduced significant changes to their 2008 machine which were not taylored to Kimi's liking. Infact Kimi's manager had to get involved to demand that earlier versions were re-installed to suit him better. His performance improved considerably towards the end of the season, but it sent out the message that the team were 100% behind Massa because by this point, he was a contender for the title. Its too easy to scream lack of motivation when not understanding all the facts IMO...

Kimi was one of the drivers of the season for me this year, and was matching the pace of Massa before his accident. A series of bad decisions on strategy, notably Maylasia when he pitted for wet tires on a dry track, and teething problems with KERS when he was the sole driver in the team using the device early on, put him a few points behind Massa. By the time Massa had his season ended prematurely, it looked on paper like Kimi was the worst driver which evidently wasn't the case... :)

100% behind you on that.

555-04Q2

25th November 2009, 14:42

Well, Ferrari is paying Kimi well over 10million for NOT driving the car.

And if I had the spare cash lying around I would have paid him 100 million for him to not drive the car.

555-04Q2

25th November 2009, 14:44

Do you know the Pearl Jam song "Nothing as it seems"?

Do you know the song "What are you on about"?

555-04Q2

25th November 2009, 14:49

Thats a little unfair on Massa though isn't it? :p

Who said life was fair :p :

bontebempo

25th November 2009, 16:08

You're right it hasn't been said before because most of the people here analyse a drivers ability based on circumstances and not whilst holding a beer in their hand and flicking back and forth from the football. ;)

well most of the people here have too much time on their hands. Short and sweet fact!

henners88

25th November 2009, 16:17

Well there we are then. :wave:

25th November 2009, 18:11

Indeed, Ferrari introduced significant changes to their 2008 machine which were not taylored to Kimi's liking. Infact Kimi's manager had to get involved to demand that earlier versions were re-installed to suit him better. His performance improved considerably towards the end of the season, but it sent out the message that the team were 100% behind Massa because by this point, he was a contender for the title. Its too easy to scream lack of motivation when not understanding all the facts IMO...

So, if it wasn't a lack of motivation, what was it that made Kimi allow such a situation to develop whereby car-changes suited Massa and he needed his manager to help him?

A lack of guts?

I can't imagine Lewis or Fernando being so gutless.

Kimi was paid to be a team leader. To allow his team-mate to dominate the garage, especially when that team-mate is Massa, not exactly the toughest nut, is a dereliction of his contractual obligations. He was lucky to get a pay-off, since I'd have sacked him the day he let Massa get the better of him.

25th November 2009, 21:10

You mention that you can't imagine Fernando being so "gutless", but when we look back to 2007 where Lewis dominated the Mclaren team in his rookie year against a hardened WDC, then theres your example.

Except that's a crap example, as Fernando did everything in his power to gain the upper hand, or at least a semblance of parity. That he failed wasn't through a lack of trying.

Kimi, on the other hand, ate a fecking ice cream.

26th November 2009, 08:38

First of all I'd like to say that its refreshing to have such a level and well reasoned response during a debate. ;)

I'll accept you explanation as I myself was not present during the briefings at Maranello, therefore I cannot comment fully on how hard Kimi tried to get things his way. I can only speculate from what I've read and seen. It's also great to know that such a small snippet of footage containing Kimi eating an ice cream in Malaysia, holds enough water to prove that he lacked motivation when developing the car. In fact I am annoyed that I failed to draw this rather obvious conclusion myself. Its amazing how much information one can learn from the television IMO.

Now thats been answered maybe we can move on and away from the jibes.. :)

Or maybe you can provide some evidence to your claims, since you question the validity of my view.

Dzeidzei

26th November 2009, 09:33

Or maybe you can provide some evidence to your claims, since you question the validity of my view.

Kimis future surely seems to interest a lot. What I dont get is why people keep bashing him and his attitude while he´s gone from Ferrari? The tifosi have their Spanish wet dream come true, so isnt it time to move on?

Or is the prospect of getting beaten by Kimi in a Mercedes too much a nightmare fro you guys?

Ive said before, but having Kimi in the other Merc car will make 2010 the mother of all seasons. Lets all hope that materialises.

DexDexter

26th November 2009, 11:21

So, if it wasn't a lack of motivation, what was it that made Kimi allow such a situation to develop whereby car-changes suited Massa and he needed his manager to help him?

A lack of guts?

I can't imagine Lewis or Fernando being so gutless.

Kimi was paid to be a team leader. To allow his team-mate to dominate the garage, especially when that team-mate is Massa, not exactly the toughest nut, is a dereliction of his contractual obligations. He was lucky to get a pay-off, since I'd have sacked him the day he let Massa get the better of him.

If Ferrari wanted a team leader, they chose the wrong driver. Kimi is an excellent racing driver but he is not interested in doing other people's jobs or kicking them in the but. Over here that kind of behavior is not needed and when Kimi was hired, they had a team leader in Jean Todt. If Häkkinen had gone to Ferrari (at a time where the management wasn't particularly strong or convincing) we would have seen a similar result, since he would not have stepped on other people's toes to get what he wants.

Valve Bounce

26th November 2009, 11:52

Or maybe you can provide some evidence to your claims, since you question the validity of my view.

I don't understand! :confused: What do you have against ice cream?

jas123f1

26th November 2009, 16:33

Exactly, I think that rather than trying to accuse Kimi of lacking motivation, we should delve a little deeper and realise it was Ferrari that failed in this instance, not Kimi. The team was built around MS and he is excellent at driving the team forward in a fashion that Ferrari were missing for two decades. Luca decided that he didn't want to pay an older driver a huge champions salary especially as he had been beaten the previous season by Alonso. This was where they went wrong IMO. Luca wanted a new era of success and he chose Raikkonen as a tool to get MS to make a decison on his future. It was stay and drive alongside Raikkonen or go. Relationships broke down between Luca and Todt over driver choice and sponsorship, and we are left with the buck passing we have today.

Kimi is an excellent driver, but he's no team leader as DexDexter said above.. :)

But same time Schumacher hade very good relation to Felipe and liked to see him as champion – and his good relation to the team made that Felipe become in reality as a first driver in the team - with help with his “Big brother” Schumi as advisor.
So Felipe hade his chance both 2007 and 2008, 2007 he was unlucky and the team decided to go for Kimi in a situation there it in reality was very difficult (almost impossible) to win the title anymore. But despite that Kimi become the World Champion 2007 after a super driving and whole team behind him.. even Felipe helped him in that ..

Also 2008 the car was fitted to Felipe and it was only because Kimis all-round talent which made it more equal for them – Kimi hade a “Ruben’s job” – to help Felipe to get the title.. and he did it .. 2009 the same Felipe was the first driver, but the construction of the car was not good enough to win the title – but even 2009 it was clearly show able that after Felipes accident the team gave Kimi full support and the results were much better .. in that car I would say SUPER .. Fisi understood it in fully first when was driving it..

Now Ferrari get “Santander money” to pay out their latest champion from F1 – but after al I’m not that much surprised that Kimi let them do it .. He has his title (despite he wasn’t the first driver) and to work in the team which doesn’t want him .. 17 million dollar is much money … to do NOT WORK.. and Kimi can always do something other.. Rally is one possibility..

Bur for me, newer more Ferrari ..
- I have seen too much.. All b*** s*** , whoi can forget what they did against Rubens, when Schumacher used even his talent to win his WDC-titles. Austria 2002 did show to every one it clearly – when Rubens was forced to give away his win to Michael Schumacher - i will never forget when Schumi explained after the race how “important” it was for the team that “he will win!!” – and he did it in a situation there he was leading the championship having 144 points against Rubens 77 and Rubens was on second place..

:)

ioan

26th November 2009, 17:58

Kimis future surely seems to interest a lot. What I dont get is why people keep bashing him and his attitude while he´s gone from Ferrari?

Why not?!

a fly on the wall

26th November 2009, 20:22

where will he go, waht will he do

1. I hope he comes back to McLaren. It would make an excellent team and we would have 2 race winning cars

2. He might leave F1 altogether. To me this is less likely despite his love affair with rallying. I recall many years back when F1 drivers would (were allowed by their teams to) compete in other racing series and races. Why should it be any different for Kimi. at 29, Kimi is in the peak performance window of an F1 driver and he will likely continue in the top flight successfully both on track and financially if he can.

3. I hear Renault is courting him with Nokia joining the courtship. I heard he as already refused a $45 mill deal from Renault (which should extinguish any notion of them leaving the sport. soon after this nonsense inquiry from the FIA ceases)

4. A megadeal with the new incarnation of BMW. They have the team, the cars and with a decent engine the right setup to be a top competitor so, he might take a stab there with some serious cash and well developed chasis.

McLaren is out of the question.

Mercedes is buying Braun and has a german driver. Shui is all talk for the spare spot. My money is on Raki as a champion driver (one of few available) will fill the spot. Nothing else makes sense.

Saint Devote

27th November 2009, 00:56

Does it really make sense to hire Kimi as one of two driver? I don't think so. The role of a racing driver in f1 has become more integrated and he is not prepared to act on behalf of the team outside of the car.

Ferrari ought to continue pushing for allowing a third car and then rehire Kimi. That way they can benefit from him at tracks like Spa and require nothng else.

I think Kimi would like a situation where he could race in rallies he chooses as well as grand prix he could choose. No pr or anything else required.

Turn up at weekends, do his thing and go home. It may make the other drivers disgruntled, not Massa, but we all know what a girl Alonso can be!

I really do think that Bernie or Todt or SOMEONE should step in and try mediate - because we will all miss Raikkonen. And these days whats the point of winning at Spa when Kimi will not be there??!!!

Surely nobody has forgotten just how brilliant this great Finnish driver can be?

Roamy

27th November 2009, 06:07

well I am not Mr Contract but what I understand to date is that Ferrari is on the hook for his 45 mil pay ticket for 2010. Further more there is probably a non compete for him to get the money. I doubt any team on the grid is going to pay 45 mil next year for a driver. So I suppose Kimi is not in the mood to take a big pay cut. Therefore SMART MONEY says go to the bench for a year.

Dzeidzei

27th November 2009, 08:13

Except that's a crap example, as Fernando did everything in his power to gain the upper hand, or at least a semblance of parity. That he failed wasn't through a lack of trying.

Kimi, on the other hand, ate a fecking ice cream.

Im sure Fernando has a clause in his contract saying: If the KERS fails and youre not to get anywhere near the damn thing, you must stay in regulated proximity, stand guard, look highly motivated and absolutely under no circumstances eat ice cream.

jas123f1

27th November 2009, 09:36

McLaren is out of the question.

Mercedes is buying Braun and has a german driver. Shui is all talk for the spare spot. My money is on Raki as a champion driver (one of few available) will fill the spot. Nothing else makes sense.

Yes - Norbert Haug was earlier saying that he is interested to give the second seat to Kimi but the question is if he want to have it .. And I’m not sure that Kimi want to be (again) in the same team as Schumi as "team advisor" – there is a risk for too much “politic”.. but maybe.. if he get a contract he like.. but it looks more that he will drive Rally at least 2010 .. at least some ..

:)

27th November 2009, 09:52

because we will all miss Raikkonen.

I don't.

555-04Q2

27th November 2009, 10:18

because we will all miss Raikkonen.

:erm: NO! :down:

DexDexter

27th November 2009, 10:41

I don't.

That says a lot about you. You don't miss a guy who has always been absolutely fair to all his competitors, on and off the track, has never badmouthed anybody, has kept his calm in all situations, stayed loyal to Ferrari after it became clear that they wanted to get rid of him. The guy has more integrity than these Alonsos etc. put together.

555-04Q2

27th November 2009, 13:26

The guy has more integrity than these Alonsos etc. put together.

Thats because he's always too drunk to figure out how to get out of his gorilla suit and shaft someone.

Shalafi

27th November 2009, 13:57

Thats because he's always too drunk to figure out how to get out of his gorilla suit and shaft someone.

At least he isn't a gorilla. Fancy a banana?

555-04Q2

27th November 2009, 14:17

At least he isn't a gorilla. Fancy a banana?

:laugh:

jens

27th November 2009, 18:54

Because Button is a nobody

Yet that "nobody" was offered the same amount of money by McLaren as Kimi - 6M per year.

jens

27th November 2009, 18:57

I think Kimi would like a situation where he could race in rallies he chooses as well as grand prix he could choose. No pr or anything else required.

Well, there has to be some kind of a regime, not just you randonly do whatever you want, especially in top-level motorsports. :p : If Kimi really wanted to, he would be racing in F1 next year. He didn't want it enough. That's why I'm not exactly going to miss him. But instead of this I'm waiting with great interest, how will he fare in WRC. Hopefully he'll have enough motivation there to have a serious career and become the first highly-competitive F1 driver to make a serious impact in the series.

Sonic

27th November 2009, 19:08

Yet that "nobody" was offered the same amount of money by McLaren as Kimi - 6M per year.

True. But Kimi at his weakest is worth 6m, whereas Button at his very best and current WDC is worth the same.

DexDexter

28th November 2009, 07:10

Thats because he's always too drunk to figure out how to get out of his gorilla suit and shaft someone.

Yep, and you South Africans eat Biltong every day for breakfast :) . Come on, give it a rest, everybody knows you don't like Kimi.

555-04Q2

30th November 2009, 10:56

Yep, and you South Africans eat Biltong every day for breakfast :) . Come on, give it a rest, everybody knows you don't like Kimi.

What! Me not like Kimi? C'mon, that's unfair mate. I love the guy, adore his skills behind the wheel, his charisma, his charm, his passion for F1.....no wait you're right. I cant stand the guy :p :

snellman

30th November 2009, 15:57

What! Me not like Kimi? C'mon, that's unfair mate. I love the guy, adore his skills behind the wheel, his charisma, his charm, his passion for F1.....no wait you're right. I cant stand the guy :p :
and we can't stand you, stop denying it like a damn child, you know he is one of the best at what he do. At least he can stay professional no matter what, unlike the other whiny-assed spoiled brats

garyshell

30th November 2009, 19:00

you know he is one of the best at what he do

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary

JRodrigues

30th November 2009, 19:55

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary

How many championship has Colin McRae won?! And he was one of the greatest ever. How many WDC has Gilles Villeneuve?

snellman

30th November 2009, 20:44

30th November 2009, 21:32

There again, who are you trying to measure him against for that matter?

How about other recent drivers on $25million per annum retainers?

Doesn't look so impressive then, does he?

jas123f1

30th November 2009, 21:45

Mr Raikkonen is number 13 in the stats of Formula One races won. His name appears ahead of many of the greats including: Sterling Moss, G Hill, J Brabham, J Hunt, R Peterson etc etc...
http://www.motorsportsetc.com/stats/st_f1win.htm

His results are evident and 1 world championship is not to be laughed at. There again, who are you trying to measure him against for that matter? I can understand that Kimi's cool persona is not to everyones taste, but poking fun as though he has mediocre results is pure madness and lacks foresight IMO. :) .

Absolutely right, we don’t need to make things more difficult what they are.

Kimi is Kimi and has his personality – reticent and honest guy. Never speak b*** s*** of any. As Massa said Kimi don’t speak b*** s*** about people, he don’t speak good things of them – he don’t speak of them.. and of course there are some who don’t like it but I like it, I like Kimi because he make things – and better than many others. If it will be Rally next year – I will follow his carrier with interest.

:)

DexDexter

1st December 2009, 10:21

and we can't stand you, stop denying it like a damn child, you know he is one of the best at what he do. At least he can stay professional no matter what, unlike the other whiny-assed spoiled brats

Come on, 555 etc is decent chap except when it comes to Kimi. :D

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary

Hmm..Kimi statistics are pretty impressive, compared to lets say Mario Andretti or any other driver from your neck of the woods ;) .

DexDexter

1st December 2009, 10:25

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary

Hmm..Kimi statistics are pretty impressive, compared to lets say Mario Andretti or any other driver from your neck of the woods ;) .

1st December 2009, 10:52

So lets get this straight, we're not looking at the skill set of a driver, purely the cost of their wages? :eek:

I think the real question you need to ask yourself Tamb is, were Ferrari so desperate for a replacement for the great MS, that they were willing/stupid enough to offer that kind of money in the first place? If you are dull enough to believe that drivers are measured against their desired salary, then you have a very naive view of modern Formula One IMO.

It almost seems that Ferrari fans are bitter about Kimi purely because he was on nearly double what the rest of the field were on. This is a stupid amount of money, but at the end of the day you are only worth what people are willing to pay at the time.

I have a question: If the salaries of Massa and Raikkonen were reversed and Massa was the top paid driver, would Felipe be as popular with the tifosi as he is now? Lets not forget he is the big underachiever of the 2, but due to his friendly personality, he is popular. I have a feeling he would recieve similar resentment from the fans which suggests that its not about results at all, its purely money orientated. :)

It is not purely about the size of the salary, but the value recieved in return.

555-04Q2

1st December 2009, 11:19

and we can't stand you, stop denying it like a damn child, you know he is one of the best at what he do. At least he can stay professional no matter what, unlike the other whiny-assed spoiled brats

Bullsh!t. Besides a short stint with Sauber he has driven in the top teams (McLaren & Ferrari) for about 7 or 8 years and only won one WDC and a dozen or so wins. He's average.

He aint in the league of the best (ie: Clark, Senna, Prost, Fangio, Schumacher etc etc).

ArrowsFA1

1st December 2009, 14:13

AUTOSPORT understands...that Raikkonen is set to sign a contract with Citroen in the next 24 hours.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80382

1st December 2009, 14:26

Well one WDC and 2 WCC's in 3 seasons is not bad really is it?

I'm surprised a man of apparent intelligence cannot get to grips with this basic concept.

There is more to it than money or results.

Kimi has not added anything of value since his championship win. His input to the 2008 WCC victory was marginal after Spain. Indeed, it could be said that he lost Ferrari more points than they could have won. If anything, his half-arsed driving cost his team-mate a WDC.

He has sat back and has not been a positive force on Ferrari. No leadership, no direction. Utterly pathetic.

For that reason, Ferrari got rid.

While they fecked up by employing him in the first place, at least they have seen sense now.

Ask yourself this....if you didn't provide the results your boss is expecting you to get on the salary he is paying you, how long before your arse is out the door? If the answer is 12 months, then you've got a very tolerant, non-business minded boss.

ArrowsFA1

1st December 2009, 14:43

Kimi has not added anything of value since his championship win...He has sat back and has not been a positive force on Ferrari. No leadership, no direction.
I'd go along with that. The contrast with MS is a stark one.

While they fecked up by employing him in the first place, at least they have seen sense now.
Ferrari were rather short-sighted during 1996-2006. They didn't have anyone lined up to "replace" MS and that ultimately, and somewhat inevitably, led them to Kimi's door. Getting rid of Kimi and replacing him with Alonso may be a fix, but they're still looking to buy-in success, rather than develop it, at least on the driver front.

JRodrigues

1st December 2009, 15:01

I'm surprised a man of apparent intelligence cannot get to grips with this basic concept.

There is more to it than money or results.

Kimi has not added anything of value since his championship win. His input to the 2008 WCC victory was marginal after Spain. Indeed, it could be said that he lost Ferrari more points than they could have won. If anything, his half-arsed driving cost his team-mate a WDC.

He has sat back and has not been a positive force on Ferrari. No leadership, no direction. Utterly pathetic.

For that reason, Ferrari got rid.

While they fecked up by employing him in the first place, at least they have seen sense now.

Ask yourself this....if you didn't provide the results your boss is expecting you to get on the salary he is paying you, how long before your arse is out the door? If the answer is 12 months, then you've got a very tolerant, non-business minded boss.

You could say it was Ferrari that took more points from Kimi. Remember Monaco 2008, Silverstone 2008, France 2008, the whole 2009 season. Not forgetting the Canada inciddent. And almost stopping in the middle of the track to let Massa pass in China.

garyshell

1st December 2009, 17:19

So lets get this straight, we're not looking at the skill set of a driver, purely the cost of their wages? :eek:

Do you understand the meaning of "return on investment". No one is comparing him purely on the cost of his wage. The comparison is on his performance measured against that cost.

Gary

garyshell

1st December 2009, 17:23

Hmm..Kimi statistics are pretty impressive, compared to lets say Mario Andretti or any other driver from your neck of the woods.

Wow, nice little bit of xenophobic attitude. Who said ANYTHING about where he was from? I could care less if he is from Mars. Or where Mario is from either (BTW you might want to check where Mario is ACTUALLY from.) I just don't see Mr. Monotone as all that impressive. Sure he has had his moments. But at the end of the day, those moments have been to few and far between. He is a good driver, no doubt. But a great one? Hardly.

Gary

garyshell

1st December 2009, 17:24

It is not purely about the size of the salary, but the value recieved in return.

Damn it tamburello, we gotta stop thinking alike. People will talk.

Cheers, my friend.

Gary

gloomyDAY

1st December 2009, 17:26

Do you understand the meaning of "return on investment". No one is comparing him purely on the cost of his wage. The comparison is on his performance measured against that cost.

GaryI think Kimi and his manager grifted the Ferrari team.

Has anyone else ever heard of a team paying an entire year's salary to a driver for not competing?

1st December 2009, 18:28

I think Kimi and his manager grifted the Ferrari team.

Has anyone else ever heard of a team paying an entire year's salary to a driver for not competing?

Yep.

A certain Scuderia paid Alain Prost his retainer for the 1992 season having sacked him for speaking out about the shambles that this team from Maranello had become in 1991.

I can't for the life of me remember this teams name, however.

Added to that, I think, but this is only from vague memory, that Williams kept Alain on a retainer for 1994, to prevent him from doing a Mansell (announcing his retirement then changing his mind to sign for another team).

DexDexter

1st December 2009, 18:35

jas123f1

1st December 2009, 19:04

Has anyone else ever heard of a team paying an entire year's salary to a driver for not competing?

One less competitor, maybe they would pay out Vettel and Hamilton too if they could.

garyshell

1st December 2009, 20:53

Schumacher + 2 unsuccessfull seasons = GONE
Raikkonen + 2 unsuccessfull seasons = GONE

Who, other than you, was limiting the discussion of Mr. Monotone's relative worth to just his stint with Ferrari? I certainly wasn't.

Gary

gloomyDAY

2nd December 2009, 02:52

Who, other than you, was limiting the discussion of Mr. Monotone's relative worth to just his stint with Ferrari? I certainly wasn't.

GaryKimi did really well at McLaren.

If not, why would McLaren try to get him back onboard?

2nd December 2009, 07:47

Talking about teammates, without Montoyas half-arsed driving in the latter part of 2005, Kimi would be a two-time WDC now. You keep referring to money every time, I just hope you keep it up when Alonso doesn't win all the races next year, because if he doesn't, he is not worth the money it took from his Spanish bank & co to get him a seat.

Fernando is certainly good....but I don't expect him to repair all the damage overnight that took place under Kimi's half-arsed watch.

You see, this isn't just about driving. It's about everything else a top class F1 driver should be....motivated, able to direct and lead, capable of focusing those around him....

In other words, everything Kimi Raikkonen failed at.

2nd December 2009, 07:49

Shalafi

2nd December 2009, 08:00

Fernando is certainly good....but I don't expect him to repair all the damage overnight that took place under Kimi's half-arsed watch.

You see, this isn't just about driving. It's about everything else a top class F1 driver should be....motivated, able to direct and lead, capable of focusing those around him....

In other words, everything Kimi Raikkonen failed at.

Haha, you blame Kimi for everything that went wrong in Ferrari... Hilarious!! That "damage-maker" at least got WDC for Ferrari. I thought that team bosses should lead and direct a team, engineers design and develop a car and drivers to DRIVE that car. At least your posts give me a good laugh every time I read them. :D

2nd December 2009, 08:07

2005 = Alonso 133pts. Raikkonen = 112pts.

Given that there were only 19 GP's, where did Montoya's lack of results lose Kimi the title?

2nd December 2009, 08:10

Haha, you blame Kimi for everything that went wrong in Ferrari... Hilarious!! That "damage-maker" at least got WDC for Ferrari. I thought that team bosses should lead and direct a team, engineers design and develop a car and drivers to DRIVE that car. At least your posts give me a good laugh every time I read them. :D

And you evidently think a feckless couldn't-care attitude is acceptable.

Apparently no F1 team boss agree with you.

Shalafi

2nd December 2009, 08:18

And you evidently think a feckless couldn't-care attitude is acceptable.

Apparently no F1 team boss agree with you.

:D

Well, every team boss wants Kimi and he only had to leave Ferrari because of certain Spanish bank. So...?

As for what I think? In F1 team there are so many employees to do different things. Driver is there to drive that car.

2nd December 2009, 09:40

Err no, drivers are employed to give technical feedback regarding the car, deliver the relevent results, and be motivated within themselves. Leading the team is not their job

And did Schumacher, Prost, Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Fangio (and the rest of the true legends of the sport) sit back and let it all go tits-up around them?

The true greats go beyond just doing what every driver does. They lead.

Forget job titles. The greats go beyond that.

Kimi didn't.

Whilst Ferrari's management post 06 has left a lot...a whole lot...to be desired, that is all the more reason why a great driver should have stepped up to the plate.

Plugging in and playing just isn't enough.

2nd December 2009, 09:41

:D

Well, every team boss wants Kimi.

So who is he driving for in F1 next year?

2nd December 2009, 10:18

No they didn't, but I wouldn't put Kimi on the same plateau as any of the mentioned. Ferrari were well aware Kimi was not a team leader before they employed him, they knew he was very fast, and delivered in the optimal machinery.

Agree on that, which is why I never wanted him at the Scuderia in the first place.

I think many inside Ferrari lost their own motivation at the end of the Todt era. Some hated the fact that Domenicalli had been chosen over obvious successors like Ross Brawn for example. Five key members have departed in the last 18 months leaving certain areas of the team inexperienced to say the least. Motivating and leading a team that has gone through such a transition is no mean feat, and Kimi and Massa have done well to get the results they have IMO. If Kimi has failed then so has Felipe

Actually, imo, if it wasn't for Felipe's attitude, the place would be a real mess. It certainly would have been if Kimi's approach had seeped acrossed the garage.

if not maybe Hamilton will be their next target... :)

Oh, that day will come.

That's the thing with youth.....immature tastes wear off, to be replaced by wisdom and an appreciation of the finer things in life.

DexDexter

2nd December 2009, 12:01

And did Schumacher, Prost, Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Fangio (and the rest of the true legends of the sport) sit back and let it all go tits-up around them?

The true greats go beyond just doing what every driver does. They lead.

Forget job titles. The greats go beyond that.

Kimi didn't.

Whilst Ferrari's management post 06 has left a lot...a whole lot...to be desired, that is all the more reason why a great driver should have stepped up to the plate.

Plugging in and playing just isn't enough.

Häkkinen won two WDC's, nearly 3 and he certainly didn't seem to lead the team, just drove and let Ron handle rest.

I agree with you that Kimi should have been more of a leader at Ferrari, it didn't happen partly because of his personality but also IMO the culture Kimi's from and the culture at Ferrari are very very different, the idea of kicking somebody's butt to make sure things are done is probably as alien to Kim as it is to me.

Ferrari & Kimi were a match made in hell from the start. An extreme example of a silent Finn from a low context culture goes to a typical higher context culture and doesn't speak the language.

http://www.culture-at-work.com/highlow.html

Koz

2nd December 2009, 12:26

Marcus Gronholm was paid just over half a million euros in 2007 (it was reported somewhere but I have no link atm). There is no real money in the WRC and never will be (compared to F1).

If Kimi ain't back to F1 in 2011 with redbull he will be back at another point when he needs financing like Lauda, and then he'll get out once he gets what he needs.

I lost a lot of respect for Kimi during the last few months. And I think the biggest issues with Kimi is his management.

Kimi is at fault when it comes to what happened at Ferrari. The car did not suit him - he should have fought for them building a car to suit him. If you are distant from your employers you will be overlooked for the promotion obviously, and you get sacked.

Since mid 2007 they shifted attention Massa didn't they? Until Kimi was within sight of the c'ship. In 2008, Massa was favored or at least the car favored him. Kimi should have been fuming and doing something about making the car suit him. Whatever was done was done too little too late.

In life, no one gives you anything on a silver platter. You can't always get what you want. You have to fight for everything. If you don't want to fight, ok, lay down and die.

Edit: The Ferrari people are also a bunch of idiots. They can't run a team well, they only did well in 2007 because of the people in Ferrari in 2006.
Aren't they hiring and sacking people because they are/aren't Italian?
And now they expect a deus ex machina from Alonso, it won't happen. He'll easily outpace Massa (and cry cheat when he can't) but Ferrari will slip deeper and deeper.

Then again Kimi did win the c'ship with them, so they don't have much to whine about considering the Fernando talks started in late 2007 after Kimi won the c'ship kinda proves that Ferrari are a bunch of idiots these days.

Fernando "Hail Mary" Alonso?

Opinions are like asshole, everyone's got one.

2nd December 2009, 13:51

wedge

2nd December 2009, 14:55

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/01122009/23/alonso-ferrari-days-raikkonen-years.html

"Fernando Alonso has been instantly accepted by his new Ferrari colleagues, it appears – with one quipping that ‘in two days he has seen more of the Maranello factory than others in two years’"

Pretty much sums it up.

If I picked up spanking new Fezza 458 plus full factory tour at Maranello, does that make me WDC?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/09/ted-kravitz-view-from-the-belg.html

The prospect of Kimi Raikkonen returning to McLaren seems to be one of the more plausible outcomes of the driver market.

Many people at McLaren still love Raikkonen; in many ways he's the perfect McLaren driver.
For a team that grounds their engineering in pure mathematics and physics, to have an unemotional, repetitive - almost robotic - driver in the car is much easier than having a man who is inconsistent and variable.

You'll never be able to prove anything with an inconsistent driver, because you'll never know if what you're changing on the car is working.

McLaren engineers still talk with wonder about Raikkonen's consistent lap times. He was so good, they say, because he would come back to the pits, say what was wrong, they would fix it and he would go out and go faster. Simple.

Team boss Martin Whitmarsh, who values his engineers' opinions highly, wouldn't rule out employing Raikkonen again when asked on Saturday afternoon.

Jefe Máximo

2nd December 2009, 18:14

All in all, it's a shame. I don't know what his motivations are, and what they will be in a years time, but I hope he returns...and returns competitive.

At the moment, he's lacking any fight.

Shame.

veeten

2nd December 2009, 18:46

Looks a little like Hakkinen in his last year with McLaren. Sad...

Hey Jefe, where you been? :D

janneppi

3rd December 2009, 08:22

The latest rumors have Räikkönen's new rally helmet spotted in the guys firm who paint his helmets, no word on Citroen logos. ;)

Apparently also spotted was a new Renault helmet for Kovalainen.

DexDexter

3rd December 2009, 10:29

I suppose it does sum certain areas up yes. But this is something of late that has annoyed me about Ferrari. Last season we had those two press releases, one about Williams blocking the Schumacher test and the other I can't remember the exact details where silly worded statements were put out into the public domain. Ferrari were always so secretive and professional a few years ago where emotional outbursts were unheard of. This little dig at Kimi is unnecessary IMO.

You have the other extreme of a team like Mclaren who are stone cold professional to the point they give nothing away, and then theres this. I've read nothing but praise come out of Mclaren for Heikki since he left even when its quite clear he did a less than impressive job at Woking. Kimi is gone from Maranello and they should be looking forward to a new chapter rather than using an opportunity to dig at an ex-employee, which suggests to me that they are bitter about the apparent lack of return on their investment. Saying that $17m is enough compensation for the remark IMO.. :)

This is a weird situation, I don't understand why people at Ferrari (and some Ferrari-fans here) need to have these pokes against Kimi while Kimi has stayed loyal to them, I mean he still doesn't criticise them. Not ONE bad word about the team.

Shalafi

3rd December 2009, 10:34

This is a weird situation, I don't understand why people at Ferrari (and some Ferrari-fans here) need to have these pokes against Kimi while Kimi has stayed loyal to them, I mean he still doesn't criticise them. Not ONE bad word about the team.

Because they all are hypocrites! :D

3rd December 2009, 11:53

3rd December 2009, 12:25

Really?? You honestly believe that? :confused: :p

Yes, because I don't see where Ferrari let him down.

They are paying him his salary for doing slightly less than he has done for the last 18 months, after he was beaten by his less well-renumerated team-mate on too many occasions, after he continued to fail to provide anything extra than just turning up and driving, after he apparently rarely visited the factory and after what is generally regarded as having lost his motivation, so I don't see what the feck he could complain about, personally.

I certainly wouldn't mind a $25million settlement from a team I'd not been bothered about improving.

veeten

3rd December 2009, 13:50

Bye-bye F1, hello World Rally...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80423

wedge

3rd December 2009, 15:27

after he apparently rarely visited the factory

Does stepping into the factory for a cup of coffee give a driver and extra 3tenths of a second in a race?

veeten

3rd December 2009, 15:31

Two very interesting sentences in that article, notably...

Raikkonen has made no secret of the fact that he is looking at a return to F1 in 2011 - with speculation already suggesting he is high on Red Bull Racing's list to partner Sebastian Vettel.

and...

"This has no prejudice at all for Kimi's further F1 career if he intends one," a source close to Red Bull told AUTOSPORT. "It does not mean at all that he will replace a current Red Bull F1 driver in our team from 2011."

Hmmmmm... I wonder whom that is aimed at? Any suggestions?... ;)

ArrowsFA1

3rd December 2009, 15:37

Does stepping into the factory for a cup of coffee give a driver and extra 3tenths of a second in a race?
Part of a drivers role, if he wants to get the best out of everyone who is working their butts off to provide him with a car to go racing with on a Sunday afternoon, is to work with them. Visiting the factory is a part of that IMHO.

It might not give him an extra 3tenths, but then again it might encourage the team to work just that little bit harder for him.

DexDexter

3rd December 2009, 16:48

Dave B

3rd December 2009, 16:56

That's probably true in Ferrari's case but my question is what kind of people need encouragement to work harder? I don't understand why professionals need to be hugged and kissed?
I'll give you the example I always use.

A few years ago in the BTCC James Thompson, through no fault of his own, wrecked his Vauxhall Astra in qualifying at Knockhill. I mean properly wrecked. I interviewed him and he was gutted that he wouldn't be on the grid come Sunday as he was in with a shout at the championship.

When I walked into the track the next day, there was his car. A bit bent, and held together in places with a lot of gaffer tape, but it was repaired and running. I spoke to some of his team who said they'd worked until around 3am fixing it.

I could totally understand and forgive them if they'd given up on it as a lost cause, but such was the respect for Thommo - universally considered in the team to be a good bloke - that the mechanics pulled out all the stops for him.

They're professionals, they've won enough championships to prove that point, but I can't help wondering if they'd have gone to all that trouble for every driver.

garyshell

3rd December 2009, 17:17

Part of a drivers role, if he wants to get the best out of everyone who is working their butts off to provide him with a car to go racing with on a Sunday afternoon, is to work with them. Visiting the factory is a part of that IMHO.

It might not give him an extra 3tenths, but then again it might encourage the team to work just that little bit harder for him.

That was the sort of attitude the late Greg Moore brought to his teams. The first time I met him was at Mid Ohio long after all the other drivers were off in their hotels or motorhomes, I found Greg in the garage sitting cross legged on one of the tables. I leaned in and asked, why are you still here? His response was my guys are working on the car so I felt my place was to be here with them even if nothing more than to hand them the occasional wrench. That spoke VOLUMES to his commitment to the folks committed to supporting him.

Gary

I am evil Homer

3rd December 2009, 17:29

Man Moore was a class act. Sorely missed.

garyshell

3rd December 2009, 17:47

Man Moore was a class act. Sorely missed.

Amen, my friend, amen. He was so classy on so many levels. His interaction with his fans was so REAL and genuine. Not just the casual smile and hello, he actually listened to what folks said and responded in a one-to-one fashion. I spent about fifteen minutes talking to him at the FIA race in Sebring when he drove one of the FIA Mercedes cars. It was like I was talking to someone I had known my entire life. So engaging. I miss him so.

Gary

keysersoze

3rd December 2009, 18:48

Does stepping into the factory for a cup of coffee give a driver and extra 3tenths of a second in a race?

Nice understatement. How about, "Does going to the factory to exhibit an interest in the process and the individual team members--developing relationships--does THAT give a driver an extra three-tenths?"

Why yes, it most certainly could.

wedge

4th December 2009, 00:22

Nice understatement. How about, "Does going to the factory to exhibit an interest in the process and the individual team members--developing relationships--does THAT give a driver an extra three-tenths?"

Why yes, it most certainly could.

Very well put, which is what should've been said in the first place instead of constantly referring to 'visiting the factory' which was far too ambiguous and was asking for a sarcastic comeback.

Julle69

4th December 2009, 06:49

So, now it's confirmed - Kimi moves to Citroen. What a sad day for formula 1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80431

gloomyDAY

4th December 2009, 07:24

So, now it's confirmed - Kimi moves to Citroen. What a sad day for formula 1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80431Not really.

Kimi drinks down those Red Bulls like water.

Once he does WRC I'm sure he'll be spright and motivated to drive alongside Vettel at Red Bull Racing.

DexDexter

4th December 2009, 07:55

So, now it's confirmed - Kimi moves to Citroen. What a sad day for formula 1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80431

Well, a sad day for us Finnish F1 enthusiasts, for the first time since 1993 we don't have a top driver in a top team. :mad: Then again, maybe its nicer to watch the races now, for pure fun.

janneppi

4th December 2009, 09:39

Well, a sad day for us Finnish F1 enthusiasts, for the first time since 1993 we don't have a top driver in a top team. :mad: Then again, maybe its nicer to watch the races now, for pure fun.
There are two people whose work I don't envy at all, the person who in in charge of MTV3 Max channel package sales and the one who is in charge of Santanders Finnish operations. :D

Storm

4th December 2009, 10:11

I guess a huge boost to WRC but yes he will be missed in F1.
Here's wishing him luck in his rallying and a comeback to F1 in 2011? although I think if he likes it he will stick to it.

555-04Q2

4th December 2009, 10:15

So, now it's confirmed - Kimi moves to Citroen. What a sad day for formula 1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80431

Not a sad day at all. The cockpit of his new rally car has more than enough space for him to fit his drink holder, something he couldnt do with his F1 car.

DexDexter

4th December 2009, 11:54

There are two people whose work I don't envy at all, the person who in in charge of MTV3 Max channel package sales and the one who is in charge of Santanders Finnish operations. :D

True. Here's a funny thought: Finland is a net payer to the Eu, we pay more than we get, while Spain is one of the biggest net gainers, (they get more than they pay) since it's a relatively poor country by Eu standards. So some of our tax money goes to Spain and it seems a Spanish bank has decided to give some of the money back to us for free, sadly they only give it to one Finn. :)

Not a sad day at all. The cockpit of his new rally car has more than enough space for him to fit his drink holder, something he couldnt do with his F1 car.

Again, would you please stop now, those stereotypes you constantly put out are a bit tiresome.

DexDexter

4th December 2009, 11:56

Not a sad day at all. The cockpit of his new rally car has more than enough space for him to fit his drink holder, something he couldnt do with his F1 car.

Again, would you please stop now, those stereotypes you constantly put out are a bit tiresome.

pino

4th December 2009, 12:17

Not a sad day at all. The cockpit of his new rally car has more than enough space for him to fit his drink holder, something he couldnt do with his F1 car.

Very very funny...not !

Tomi

4th December 2009, 12:31

There are two people whose work I don't envy at all, the person who in in charge of MTV3 Max channel package sales and the one who is in charge of Santanders Finnish operations. :D

Lol, same here, a brilliant contract really, money for nothing...... like in the song, + from driving rally some more too, and after 1 year back in business.

ShiftingGears

4th December 2009, 12:31

Not a sad day at all. The cockpit of his new rally car has more than enough space for him to fit his drink holder, something he couldnt do with his F1 car.

Your drinking quips are even more idiotic than when you claimed Kimi was a carbreaker.

555-04Q2

4th December 2009, 12:36

Your drinking quips are even more idiotic than when you claimed Kimi was a carbreaker.

Thank you for the compliment!

555-04Q2

4th December 2009, 12:36

Very very funny...not !

And I thought you had a sense of humour, pino :(

F1boat

4th December 2009, 12:41

Not a sad day at all. The cockpit of his new rally car has more than enough space for him to fit his drink holder, something he couldnt do with his F1 car.

That's become too insulting IMO. Very low quality!
Back on topic, I am sad to see Kimi leaving F1, but I wish him all the best in the WRC! I'd love if in a few years he manages to become a title contender there.

555-04Q2

4th December 2009, 12:45

That's become too insulting IMO. Very low quality!

I havent insulted anyone!!!

F1boat

4th December 2009, 12:56

I don't like stereotypes and I don't know how can you say that one of the best drivers is a drunkard. To me this is like what Spanish fans did to Lewis. Not that bad, of course, but the same manner.

Dzeidzei

4th December 2009, 13:06

I don't like stereotypes and I don't know how can you say that one of the best drivers is a drunkard. To me this is like what Spanish fans did to Lewis. Not that bad, of course, but the same manner.

Now I wouldnt judge 555 so quickly. Im sure he has valid reasons for his behaviour. Maybe this is his only fun? Maybe he was abused as a child? Maybe his boy friend has been acting weird for a long time? Maybe his mom was really an alcoholic, who knows.

I wish you all the best, 555. Hang in there, buddy.

ShiftingGears

4th December 2009, 13:20

Thank you for the compliment!

No wuccas ;)

555-04Q2

4th December 2009, 13:21

555-04Q2

4th December 2009, 13:27

Now I wouldnt judge 555 so quickly. Im sure he has valid reasons for his behaviour. Maybe this is his only fun? Maybe he was abused as a child? Maybe his boy friend has been acting weird for a long time? Maybe his mom was really an alcoholic, who knows.

I wish you all the best, 555. Hang in there, buddy.

:?: WTF :?:

jens

4th December 2009, 14:11

This and the Button threads go round and round and round all the time with no evident conclusions. I'm not even sure, why are the debates here and there lasting so endlessly - what is there to prove? World Champions are champions and were obviously good enough to put together a consistent enough season to win it, even though neither title was won in a "convincing way", but this isn't important about the fact of being a WDC anyway. In contrast it can be mentioned that the opposite pro-argument like the titles make them automatically "better drivers" than non-WDC's (Massa, Vettel, etc) is seriously flawed.

I would like to clarify a few aspects though. One argument here was that "Kimi never criticized his team and that is good". I would say contrary - in case something is wrong, one should open his mouth and tell, what is going on. Of course such driver would possibly be called a whiner, etc. Sometimes it looks like almost all drivers are accused of being whiners. :p : But if that's the case, "whining" is a normal part of a human being and we are all of that as well. :D Anyway, if someone gets a bad treatment or something else is unpleasant, the right attitude would be to open mouth and try to improve things instead of silently settling with them. If for some that is whining, then let it be so.

Also - often an argument of "suiting a driver's style" is used and besides this the phrase "favouring" is used. In my opinion such theories are incorrect. Adaptability is one of the most important traits of a driver, because an F1 car is in constant change - often new improvements and parts appear on the car, which keep influencing car's handling and behaviour. A driver should be capable of adapting to all of these changes. Designers come up with innovations that supposedly should make the car faster as much as possible. "Driver's style" has secondary importance, especially if this way doesn't improve car's overall performance.

Thirdly I'm a bit puzzled with all this "team motivating" stuff. I can read phrases like "should motivate the team" too often. IMO a top designer should be capable of motivating himself. If a designer can't concentrate on work without drivers pampering them all the time, he is not a top designer. I suspect the word "motivate" is misused here anyway. A driver ought to work with engineers for hours after practice to try to find the most efficient setup, but such activity isn't really what you would call "motivating" - just part of the overall job.

F1boat

4th December 2009, 14:44

Its not a stereotype. Go to Youtube and there are several videos showing him drunk and in one video, falling over his own feet.

Everybody has fun from time to time. But in F1 he was sober enough to win the WDC.

harsha

4th December 2009, 14:46

Its not a stereotype. Go to Youtube and there are several videos showing him drunk and in one video, falling over his own feet.

hey,no fair...i thought you were a fan of Kimi :(

pino

4th December 2009, 15:09

And I thought you had a sense of humour, pino :(

Sorry but I am tired of reading posts saying how much Kimi drinks, and bla bla bla...

Tomi

4th December 2009, 16:11

I would like to clarify a few aspects though. One argument here was that "Kimi never criticized his team and that is good". I would say contrary - in case something is wrong, one should open his mouth and tell, what is going on. Of course such driver would possibly be called a whiner, etc. Sometimes it looks like almost all drivers are accused of being whiners. :p : But if that's the case, "whining" is a normal part of a human being and we are all of that as well. :D Anyway, if someone gets a bad treatment or something else is unpleasant, the right attitude would be to open mouth and try to improve things instead of silently settling with them. If for some that is whining, then let it be so.

Hard to say if he have or not, i think its likely he has critisized, but its a little different if you critisize to those who actually can do something about it, or to the media.

jens

4th December 2009, 16:35

Hard to say if he have or not, i think its likely he has critisized, but its a little different if you critisize to those who actually can do something about it, or to the media.

True that. IIRC it was Schumacher, who said that all kinds of critical issues were kept inside the team.

Jefe Máximo

4th December 2009, 20:18

Looks a little like Hakkinen in his last year with McLaren. Sad...

Hey Jefe, where you been? :D

Hey V10, I've been around... ;)

As for the Hakk comparison, I think he just lost any fight when McLaren failed to deliver a competitive car - something which became painfully obvious even after just two races. He still won 2 races though, and should've won in Barcelona.

Kimi just looked plain uninterested.

DexDexter

4th December 2009, 22:24

I would like to clarify a few aspects though. One argument here was that "Kimi never criticized his team and that is good". I would say contrary - in case something is wrong, one should open his mouth and tell, what is going on. Of course such driver would possibly be called a whiner, etc. Sometimes it looks like almost all drivers are accused of being whiners. :p : But if that's the case, "whining" is a normal part of a human being and we are all of that as well. :D Anyway, if someone gets a bad treatment or something else is unpleasant, the right attitude would be to open mouth and try to improve things instead of silently settling with them. If for some that is whining, then let it be so.

I was the one using that phrase and what I meant was that after it became known that they wanted to get rid of him no matter what, he still didn't criticise them. How many of us could keep quiet after finding out that the team you won the championship with stabbed you in the back cause you had an average half a season and a Spanish bank was willing to pay to get rid of you?

DexDexter

4th December 2009, 22:27

Kimi just looked plain uninterested.

Plain uninterested drivers don't win races at Spa with a car that what a mediocre at best. Boy you guys have a short memory. Edit: But anyway, he's gone and I don't think he will ever be back so perhaps Kimi should be transferred to Rallying forum.

5th December 2009, 11:23

How many of us could keep quiet after finding out that the team you won the championship with stabbed you in the back cause you had an average half a season and a Spanish bank was willing to pay to get rid of you?

Pathetic.

If Kimi had pulled his weight, he would still be there.

He didn't and he isn't.

F1boat

5th December 2009, 11:30

But he is in the WRC, also a great series and major challenge. That's admirable. IMO if there is one series equal to F1, it is the WRC, although /or because/ it is totally different.

wedge

5th December 2009, 14:47

So this view that Kimi was lackluster and displayed no motivation, is it based on the 5 poor races in the 2008 season or last season too?

Kimi has been rated among the best drivers of the 2009 season, given the poor machinery in which he achieved 5 podiums including a win.

Paid 1million €/$ or whatever it was - way more than Massa.

hyped to the nth degree that he would/should beat Massa and yet Massa destroyed him last year.

Performing at his absolute best inconsistently - I think the likes of Tamburello and even Kimi fans for that matter have every right to feel at least dissappointed.

ioan

5th December 2009, 16:54

Paid 1million €/$ or whatever it was - way more than Massa.

hyped to the nth degree that he would/should beat Massa and yet Massa destroyed him last year.

Performing at his absolute best inconsistently - I think the likes of Tamburello and even Kimi fans for that matter have every right to feel at least dissappointed.

Have to agree.
If Kimi would have done better than Ferrari would have kept him.

Jefe Máximo

5th December 2009, 16:56

Plain uninterested drivers don't win races at Spa with a car that what a mediocre at best. Boy you guys have a short memory. Edit: But anyway, he's gone and I don't think he will ever be back so perhaps Kimi should be transferred to Rallying forum.

Yeah, what a shame that he didn't show that spark of interest the rest of the year then. Would have been a lot more fun watching him rule that mediocre car, like he used to in those POS McLaren of his early years.

Shalafi

5th December 2009, 20:59

What a clowns! Kimi won for Ferrari 1 WDC and 2 WCC and still no respect for him or his talents! Pitiful! Some Ferrari fans... This is the top tier of motorsport, anyone who wins a championship in F1 is truly a magnificent racer without no doubt!! So, Ferrari paid him a hefty amount of money, he delivered and won WDC...he got sacked because of Spanish bank, still no bad words from him..not even one!! Have a respect for a great champion. He might even come back after one year, who knows... or he might try to make a history and be the first F1 and Rally WDC champion. He always was and is his own man, nothing fake, you have to respect that, its very rare!

ioan

5th December 2009, 21:35

Shalafi

5th December 2009, 22:23

He certainly is a great driver, but you could stop moaning about other people's opinion.

Like you stopped moaning when peple criticized MS? Sometimes its just so ridiculous that one has to comment something...

But dont worry, this was my last statement about this subject..unless Kimi comes back to F1.

F1boat

6th December 2009, 06:27

What a clowns! Kimi won for Ferrari 1 WDC and 2 WCC and still no respect for him or his talents!

Are you surprised? That's what we get recently - Kimi is lazy and boring, Jenson is slow, Fernando is a crybaby, Lewis is a liar. These are champions, so let's bash them and praise non-champions instead... Ridiculous, but that's the way forums are.

Dzeidzei

6th December 2009, 19:38

Have to agree.
If Kimi would have done better than Ferrari would have kept him.

You think Ferrari would have sacked Felipe instead? I seriously doubt that. Santander dictated Kimis departure, period. And Ferrari wanted the Spanish money.

DexDexter

6th December 2009, 22:00

Are you surprised? That's what we get recently - Kimi is lazy and boring, Jenson is slow, Fernando is a crybaby, Lewis is a liar. These are champions, so let's bash them and praise non-champions instead... Ridiculous, but that's the way forums are.

There are a lot of negatives comments everywhere, that's true. Goes to show you that no matter what you do, some people don't like it or even despise you.

jas123f1

8th December 2009, 00:59

You think Ferrari would have sacked Felipe instead? I seriously doubt that. Santander dictated Kimis departure, period. And Ferrari wanted the Spanish money.

Yes - without any hesitation it's Santanders money behind Kimis move.
Ferrari gets a Santander money, Kimi and Alonso too and its says that Santander will start app. 500 bank filial in Brazil...

Money money

However it will be very interesting see Kimi as a WRC driver..

jas123f1

14th December 2009, 00:53

But same time Schumacher hade very good relation to Felipe and liked to see him as champion – and his good relation to the team made that Felipe become in reality as a first driver in the team - with help with his “Big brother” Schumi as advisor.
So Felipe hade his chance both 2007 and 2008, 2007 he was unlucky and the team decided to go for Kimi in a situation there it in reality was very difficult (almost impossible) to win the title anymore. But despite that Kimi become the World Champion 2007 after a super driving and whole team behind him.. even Felipe helped him in that ..

Also 2008 the car was fitted to Felipe and it was only because Kimis all-round talent which made it more equal for them – Kimi hade a “Ruben’s job” – to help Felipe to get the title.. and he did it .. 2009 the same Felipe was the first driver, but the construction of the car was not good enough to win the title – but even 2009 it was clearly show able that after Felipes accident the team gave Kimi full support and the results were much better .. in that car I would say SUPER .. Fisi understood it in fully first when was driving it..

Now Ferrari get “Santander money” to pay out their latest champion from F1 – but after al I’m not that much surprised that Kimi let them do it .. He has his title (despite he wasn’t the first driver) and to work in the team which doesn’t want him .. 17 million dollar is much money … to do NOT WORK.. and Kimi can always do something other.. Rally is one possibility..

Bur for me, newer more Ferrari ..
- I have seen too much.. All b*** s*** , whoi can forget what they did against Rubens, when Schumacher used even his talent to win his WDC-titles. Austria 2002 did show to every one it clearly – when Rubens was forced to give away his win to Michael Schumacher - i will never forget when Schumi explained after the race how “important” it was for the team that “he will win!!” – and he did it in a situation there he was leading the championship having 144 points against Rubens 77 and Rubens was on second place..

:)

This is my last one to this thread -

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80553
---
The team president (Luca di Montezemolo ) also paid tribute to former driver Kimi Raikkonen, who lost his seat to Alonso and is switching to the World Rally Championship.

"I'm sorry he's not here today," said Montezemolo. (Sure?)

"All the same, I wish to thank him on behalf of all of us for what he achieved in his three years with Ferrari.

"He staked his place in our history by winning the title in his first season, which was partly thanks to help from Felipe, to whom he repaid the compliment the following year.
---

It looks more and more that Kimi made a big mistake when helping Massa 2008, because people where saying that he was making a bad job.. and because it ended that he was fired from his job.. ok .. Ferrari paid him 17 million euro Santander money and Kimi went to Rally to 2010 (and is probably back next year) – but it was a treachery from Ferrari … (However nice to hear it from Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo it himself) ..

:(